Re: [python-committers] Poll: Do you like the PEP 572 Assignment Expressions?
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:49 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core > dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some > people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in > February) :-) FWIW, contrary to the many -1 responses, I don't think the actual sentiment is all torches-and-pitchforks. :) There are a variety of well-reasoned opinions that mostly result in "meh" and "I don't like the idea of it but don't know how it will actually work out" (or maybe I'm just projecting myself onto everyone else). This is the point where I have a lot of respect for Guido's uncanny intuition as reflected in Python's history. -eric ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[python-committers] My opinion about "binding expressions" (was Poll: Do you like the PEP 572 Assignment Expressions?)
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:49 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > I propose a poll because I'm unable to track the opinion of each core > dev, too many emails have been sent to python-dev, and maybe some > people changed their mind during the long discussion (which started in > February) :-) Victor said "Please don't elaborate here" so I've opened yet another* thread for this topic. :) My apologies to all for that. However, I didn't feel like the poll captured my opinion well. In the interest of not adding too much more noise to the discussion on this specific topic, I'll provide a (relatively) brief opinion here and then bow out. (I don't feel like I have anything else to contribute on the subject.) If you feel similarly, feel free to do likewise (e.g. be concise). Please don't engage in discussion here. There are plenty of other threads for that. If no one else registers their opinion here that's fine with me too. :) As to my actual opinion, ultimately I don't think "binding expressions" are such a big deal either way. I doubt abuse will be as common or frustrating as that of list comprehensions and ternary expressions; but either way code review will mitigate that risk (and I doubt binding expressions will be a major distraction there). Anyway, I'll probably use them occasionally if we get them. -eric * Yeah, it's like when someone says "the problem is there are too many file formats" so they write their own to render the rest irrelevant... ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[python-committers] PEP 572 at the Language Summit next week
Sorry, I choose to reply to python-committers rather than python-dev because I have been annoyed by the PEP 572 traffic on python-dev. 2018-04-29 22:45 GMT+02:00 Larry Hastings : > In case it helps, we're planning on presentations on / a discussion of PEP > 572 at the 2018 Python Language Summit next Wednesday. (I'm assuming it > won't be pronounced upon before then--after all, what's the rush?) > Naturally the discussion isn't going to escape the room until it gets > reported on by Jake Edge, but delegates at the Summit will hopefully emerge > well-informed and comfortable with the result of the discussion. Who is going to lead this discussion? Will we have at least one developer in favor of the PEP to give a summary of the advantages? I would like to make sure that we can get a fair summary of the past PEP discussion. I'm not worried for the "dislike" part which may be correctly represented :-D Note: I just got a notice of a strike at Air France next Tuesday, the day I'm flighting to the US, and my 3rd and last flight of this trip is cancelled. Oh oh. Victor ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] PEP 572 at the Language Summit next week
It looks like I am going to try and present a balanced summary and then open the floor for discussion. I also want to use the opportunity to start brainstorming about a better way to make decisions. On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > Sorry, I choose to reply to python-committers rather than python-dev > because I have been annoyed by the PEP 572 traffic on python-dev. > > 2018-04-29 22:45 GMT+02:00 Larry Hastings : > > In case it helps, we're planning on presentations on / a discussion of > PEP > > 572 at the 2018 Python Language Summit next Wednesday. (I'm assuming it > > won't be pronounced upon before then--after all, what's the rush?) > > Naturally the discussion isn't going to escape the room until it gets > > reported on by Jake Edge, but delegates at the Summit will hopefully > emerge > > well-informed and comfortable with the result of the discussion. > > Who is going to lead this discussion? Will we have at least one > developer in favor of the PEP to give a summary of the advantages? I > would like to make sure that we can get a fair summary of the past PEP > discussion. > > I'm not worried for the "dislike" part which may be correctly represented > :-D > > Note: I just got a notice of a strike at Air France next Tuesday, the > day I'm flighting to the US, and my 3rd and last flight of this trip > is cancelled. Oh oh. > > Victor > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] PEP 572 at the Language Summit next week
2018-05-04 19:04 GMT+02:00 Guido van Rossum : > It looks like I am going to try and present a balanced summary and then open > the floor for discussion. Oh ok, thanks! I'm not sure that the discussion on python-dev was really efficient (I didn't follow the discussion on python-ideas). It seems like many people said the same thing. I'm not sure that arguments of the supporters of the PEP have been heard. Likely lost in the high number of emails... Victor ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] PEP 572 at the Language Summit next week
[Victor Stinner ] > I'm not sure that the discussion on python-dev was really efficient (I > didn't follow the discussion on python-ideas). It seems like many > people said the same thing. Only hundreds of times ;-) > I'm not sure that arguments of the supporters of the PEP have been > heard. Likely lost in the high number of emails... It's really the PEP's job to lay out the pros and cons - you shouldn't have to read emails at all for that, unless you want to follow the development in real time. I think moving the PEP from python-ideas to python-dev was premature, because even among proponents there wasn't yet consensus that the then-current state of the PEP was sufficiently focused. The simpler the PEP has gotten, the more I've warmed to it. My current +1 isn't really about the PEP as it stands, but about what I _assume_ Guido will be talking about (plain-name "binding expressions" alone, and not also, e.g., about changing some corner case scope behaviors, but also about tightening the language spec with respect to guaranteeing a specific order-of-operation (OOO) in some currently fuzzy cases - although, to be fair, both scope behaviors and OOO guarantees are issues on their own quite independent of this PEP). And, frankly, everyone else should be +1 too on whatever it is Guido is privately thinking ;-) ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] PEP 572 at the Language Summit next week
On 04May2018 1631, Tim Peters wrote: And, frankly, everyone else should be +1 too on whatever it is Guido is privately thinking ;-) That wasn't what the poll was about :) Cheers, Steve ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Poll: Do you like the PEP 572 Assignment Expressions?
-1 //arry/ ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
