[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Pablo Galindo Salgado
Just for the heads up: I have sent an email to the release team and we are
considering the proposal. Thanks for raising this with us.

On Tue, 31 May 2022 at 23:39, Pablo Galindo Salgado 
wrote:

> > Wouldn't it be more practical to bite the bullet and release b3
> immediately with this fix?
>
> I sympathize with the sentiment and I am sorry that this is not practical
> but I am not fully convinced about the balance. Beta 3 is in one month and
> spinning an entire release is a multi-hour process for at least 3 people. I
> will discuss this with the release team but is unlikely. For testing at
> fedora, you can temporarily patch beta2 and include this commit:
>
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/b425d887aa51c8e7900b08cb8df457f450f6fbfd
>
> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 00:19, Miro Hrončok  wrote:
>
>> On 01. 06. 22 0:02, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
>> > You may be able to work around this issue by preventing pytest to
>> rewrite the
>> > assert statements by adding `--assert=plain` to the command line
>> invocation
>> > until we have beta 3 next month.
>>
>> That's possibly dozens---if not hundreds---of CI setups that would
>> require a
>> temporary hack in order to be able to continue testing with Python 3.11.
>> It's
>> wonderful that they can and many already do that now. Wouldn't it be more
>> practical to bite the bullet and release b3 immediately with this fix?
>>
>> --
>> Miro Hrončok
>> --
>> Phone: +420777974800
>> IRC: mhroncok
>>
>>
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[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Pablo Galindo Salgado
> Wouldn't it be more practical to bite the bullet and release b3
immediately with this fix?

I sympathize with the sentiment and I am sorry that this is not practical
but I am not fully convinced about the balance. Beta 3 is in one month and
spinning an entire release is a multi-hour process for at least 3 people. I
will discuss this with the release team but is unlikely. For testing at
fedora, you can temporarily patch beta2 and include this commit:

https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/b425d887aa51c8e7900b08cb8df457f450f6fbfd

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 00:19, Miro Hrončok  wrote:

> On 01. 06. 22 0:02, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
> > You may be able to work around this issue by preventing pytest to
> rewrite the
> > assert statements by adding `--assert=plain` to the command line
> invocation
> > until we have beta 3 next month.
>
> That's possibly dozens---if not hundreds---of CI setups that would require
> a
> temporary hack in order to be able to continue testing with Python 3.11.
> It's
> wonderful that they can and many already do that now. Wouldn't it be more
> practical to bite the bullet and release b3 immediately with this fix?
>
> --
> Miro Hrončok
> --
> Phone: +420777974800
> IRC: mhroncok
>
>
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[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Miro Hrončok

On 01. 06. 22 0:02, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
You may be able to work around this issue by preventing pytest to rewrite the 
assert statements by adding `--assert=plain` to the command line invocation 
until we have beta 3 next month.


That's possibly dozens---if not hundreds---of CI setups that would require a 
temporary hack in order to be able to continue testing with Python 3.11. It's 
wonderful that they can and many already do that now. Wouldn't it be more 
practical to bite the bullet and release b3 immediately with this fix?


--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok

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[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Pablo Galindo Salgado
I have added a small note in the release announcements. Thanks for raising
this with us!

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 00:13, Jean Abou Samra  wrote:

>
>
> Le 01/06/2022 à 00:02, Pablo Galindo Salgado a écrit :
> > You may be able to work around this issue by preventing pytest to
> > rewrite the assert statements by adding `--assert=plain` to the
> > command line invocation until we have beta 3 next month.
>
> Thank you! That did the trick. Worth mentioning in those release
> announcements that are editable, perhaps.
>
> Best,
> Jean
>
>
>
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[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Jean Abou Samra



Le 01/06/2022 à 00:02, Pablo Galindo Salgado a écrit :
You may be able to work around this issue by preventing pytest to 
rewrite the assert statements by adding `--assert=plain` to the 
command line invocation until we have beta 3 next month.


Thank you! That did the trick. Worth mentioning in those release 
announcements that are editable, perhaps.


Best,
Jean


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[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Jean Abou Samra

Hi,


Le 31/05/2022 à 15:31, Pablo Galindo Salgado a écrit :
We **strongly encourage** maintainers of third-party Python projects 
to **test with 3.11** during the beta phase and report issues found to 
[the Python bug tracker](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues) as 
soon as possible.



I just tried doing that on the project I help maintaining (Pygments),
but it turns out that it's a bit hard, presumably for many projects
too, due to

https://github.com/pytest-dev/pytest/issues/10008

which prevents pytest from running with 3.11.0b2.

The fix for this issue is on the way (thanks!), but it has missed
this release. Given pytest's popularity, this means 3.11.0b2 is
sadly likely not to get as much testing exposure as wished ...

Thus I wonder, would it be reasonable to exceptionally do another
release shortly after this fix lands?

Best,
Jean

PS: I tried to post this reply in Discourse, but apparently
I'm not allowed to post in the category of the release
announcement.

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[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Pablo Galindo Salgado
You may be able to work around this issue by preventing pytest to rewrite
the assert statements by adding `--assert=plain` to the command line
invocation until we have beta 3 next month.

On Tue, 31 May 2022 at 23:57, Jean Abou Samra  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> Le 31/05/2022 à 15:31, Pablo Galindo Salgado a écrit :
> > We **strongly encourage** maintainers of third-party Python projects
> > to **test with 3.11** during the beta phase and report issues found to
> > [the Python bug tracker](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues) as
> > soon as possible.
>
>
> I just tried doing that on the project I help maintaining (Pygments),
> but it turns out that it's a bit hard, presumably for many projects
> too, due to
>
> https://github.com/pytest-dev/pytest/issues/10008
>
> which prevents pytest from running with 3.11.0b2.
>
> The fix for this issue is on the way (thanks!), but it has missed
> this release. Given pytest's popularity, this means 3.11.0b2 is
> sadly likely not to get as much testing exposure as wished ...
>
> Thus I wonder, would it be reasonable to exceptionally do another
> release shortly after this fix lands?
>
> Best,
> Jean
>
> PS: I tried to post this reply in Discourse, but apparently
> I'm not allowed to post in the category of the release
> announcement.
>
>
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[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 689 – Unstable C API tier (was: Semi-stable C API tier)

2022-05-31 Thread Sasha Kacanski
Why you don't simplify with api A,B,C and  forth and then follows
explanation ofr what is stable, unstable, semi... So forth

On Wed, May 4, 2022, 6:10 AM Petr Viktorin  wrote:

>
>
> On 29. 04. 22 19:02, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 10:15 AM Petr Viktorin  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 29. 04. 22 16:32, Victor Stinner wrote:
> >  > Ok, let me start with the serious business: API name.
> >  >
> >  > I'm not comfortable with "semi-stable". Python already has a
> "limited
> >  > API" and a "stable ABI". Just by its name, it's unclear what
> >  > "semi-stable" means.
> [...]
> > Nick Coghlan argued against that term:
> [...]
> > But I also like “unstable” better than “semi-stable”. Splitting the
> > internals into “private”/“internal” and “unstable” seems reasonable.
> >
> >
> > I think picking "semi-stable" would be giving in to the OCD nerd in all
> > of us. :-) While perhaps technically less precise, "unstable" is the
> > catchy name with the right association. (And yes, we should keep it
> > stable within bugfix releases, but the name doesn't need to reflect that
> > detail.) The "internal API" isn't an API at all (except for CPython core
> > developers and contributors). The "unstable API" would definitely be an
> > *API* for users outside the core.
> >
> > So let's please go with "unstable".
>
>
> Thanks, you worded that perfectly!
>
> Alright, the PEP now uses “unstable” rather than “semi-stable”. And I
> don't see any issues with the technical details, so I'll see if it can
> still get into Python 3.11. Hopefully Pablo agrees as the Release Manager.
> Thanks for the discussion, everyone!
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[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 689 – Unstable C API tier (was: Semi-stable C API tier)

2022-05-31 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Mon, 30 May 2022 12:53:57 -0700
Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> I would love to see header files used for this -- while I know there is a
> long tradition of feature-flags that must be #defined by the user before
> #including a header in order to affect what the header exports (or not!),
> 30 years later I still find that approach pretty unintuitive.

Agreed that #defining a flag before #including a header is a brittle
approach. If something else included the header before you set your
#define, then include guards can prevent you from seeing any effects.

This is a common issue in Windows land with the godawful Windows.h
header file.

Regards

Antoine.



> 
> But yes, it's going to be a complex transition.
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 12:30 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:
> 
> > We discussed having leading underscores for this API tier, and it was
> > decided that a leading underscore was preferred.
> >
> > This did start a discussion, though, about whether we should control API
> > access/opt-in via `#include` by having `.h` files that convey what API the
> > user is opting into, or use `#define` to control what gets exposed via
> > `Python.h`. The general feeling was that the header file idea is ideal, but
> > it is a little extra work to transition to if you want to be compatible
> > with older versions of Python that wouldn't have the header files (Victor's
> > compatibility project could help here). The question for the team is
> > whether separate header files makes sense to others, or would people prefer
> > using `#define` and `Python.h` to control API access/opt-in?
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> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> >  
> 
> 



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[Python-Dev] [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available

2022-05-31 Thread Pablo Galindo Salgado
Does anyone want bug fixes? Because we have 164 new commits fixing
different things, from code to documentation. If you have reported some
issue after 3.11.0b1, you should check if is fixed and if not, make sure
you tell us so we can take a look. We still have two more betas to go so
help us to make sure we don't miss anything so everything is ready for the
final release!!

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3110b2/

## This is a beta preview of Python  3.11

Python 3.11 is still in development. 3.11.0b2 is the second of four planned
beta release previews. Beta release previews are intended to give the wider
community the opportunity to test new features and bug fixes and to prepare
their projects to support the new feature release.

We **strongly encourage** maintainers of third-party Python projects to
**test with 3.11** during the beta phase and report issues found to [the
Python bug tracker](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues) as soon as
possible.  While the release is planned to be feature complete entering the
beta phase, it is possible that features may be modified or, in rare cases,
deleted up until the start of the release candidate phase (Monday,
2021-08-02).  Our goal is to have no ABI changes after beta 4 and as few
code changes as possible after 3.11.0rc1, the first release candidate.  To
achieve that, it will be **extremely important** to get as much exposure
for 3.11 as possible during the beta phase.

Please keep in mind that this is a preview release and its use is **not**
recommended for production environments.

# Major new features of the 3.11 series, compared to 3.10

Many new features for Python 3.11 are still being planned and written.
Among the new major new features and changes so far:

* [PEP 657](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0657/) -- Include
Fine-Grained Error Locations in Tracebacks
* [PEP 654](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/) -- Exception Groups
and except*
* [PEP 673](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0673/)  -- Self Type
* [PEP 646](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0646/)-- Variadic Generics
* [PEP 680](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0680/)-- tomllib: Support
for Parsing TOML in the Standard Library
* [PEP 675](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0675/)-- Arbitrary Literal
String Type
* [PEP 655](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0655/)-- Marking individual
TypedDict items as required or potentially-missing
* [PEP 681](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0681/)-- Data Class
Transforms
* [bpo-46752](https://bugs.python.org/issue46752)-- Introduce task groups
to asyncio
* [bpo-433030](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/34627/) -- Atomic
grouping ((?>...)) and possessive quantifiers (`*+, ++, ?+, {m,n}+`) are
now supported in regular expressions.
* The [Faster Cpython Project](https://github.com/faster-cpython/) is
already yielding some exciting results. Python 3.11 is up to 10-60% faster
than Python 3.10. On average, we measured a 1.22x speedup on the standard
benchmark suite. See [Faster CPython](
https://docs.python.org/3.11/whatsnew/3.11.html#faster-cpython) for details.
* (Hey, **fellow core developer,** if a feature you find important
is missing from this list, [let Pablo know](mailto:pablog...@python.org
).)

The next pre-release of Python 3.11 will be 3.11.0b3, currently scheduled
for Thursday, 2022-06-16.

# More resources

* [Online Documentation](https://docs.python.org/3.11/)
* [PEP 664](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0664/), 3.11 Release
Schedule
* Report bugs at [https://bugs.python.org](https://bugs.python.org).
* [Help fund Python and its community](/psf/donations/).

# And now for something completely different

The Planck time is the time required for light to travel a distance of 1
Planck length in a vacuum, which is a time interval of approximately
`5.39*10^(−44)` s. No current physical theory can describe timescales
shorter than the Planck time, such as the earliest events after the Big
Bang, and it is conjectured that the structure of time breaks down on
intervals comparable to the Planck time. While there is currently no known
way to measure time intervals on the scale of the Planck time, researchers
in 2020 found that the accuracy of an atomic clock is constrained by
quantum effects on the order of the Planck time, and for the most precise
atomic clocks thus far they calculated that such effects have been ruled
out to around `10^−33` s, or 10 orders of magnitude above the Planck scale.

# We hope you enjoy the new releases!

Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and
these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by
volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python
Software Foundation.

https://www.python.org/psf/

Regards from sunny London,
Pablo Galindo Salgado
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[Python-Dev] Re: Is it possible to view tokenizer output?

2022-05-31 Thread Victor Stinner
You should maybe move the code out of the stdlib (to tests?) if it
should not be used. Otherwise, someone somehow will start to rely on
it, and then complain when it breaks :-)

Victor

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 6:51 PM Pablo Galindo Salgado
 wrote:
>
> Is on the main branch but as I mentioned is **exclusively** for internal 
> consumption:
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/8136606769661c103c46d142e52ec88803f6/Lib/tokenize.py#L685
>
> On Mon, 30 May 2022 at 17:37, Jack  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Pablo, could you clarify please? Is that on the main branch, or would you 
>> be willing to share the code?
>>
>> On 30/05/2022 16:23, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
>>
>> There is no *public* one but there is a private one accesible from Python I 
>> added for testing purposes.
>>
>> On Mon, 30 May 2022, 15:17 Victor Stinner,  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 1:40 AM Eric V. Smith  wrote:
>>> > python -m tokenize < file-to-parse.py
>>> >
>>> > See the comment at the top of tokenize.py. IIRC, it re-implements the
>>> > tokenizer, it does not call the one used for python code.
>>>
>>> Ah right, I would be surprised that there would be a public Python API
>>> to get the tokenizer output, since there is no public C API for that
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I just removed  header file since it was never usable outside
>>> Python C internals: there is no public C API to just run the tokenizer
>>> and gets its output.
>>>
>>> Victor
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