[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse
If only, fellow list colleagues, I could see only the topics I choose on Discourse. The Discourse feels like python-list, python-dev, python-* combined. I feel cluttered. If only I could also export the folks using only the mailing list to the Discourse. If only Discourse was as easy to search and port as a mail archive. If Python is a community thing, the discourse is it. But, I fear, crafting mail and reading walls of text might become the skills of a bygone age. On Discourse i miss the simplicity of a medialess, interactionless, botless, privilegeless, notificationless, badgeless platform. But, we must keep up with advances in tech, cope with different ways, cope with what most people use. It's the way forward. Next time, see you at PythonHut in the Metaverse. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/JA76LADBRCVDOGPBVCAXPM66QKDBODU7/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: How about using modern C++ in development of CPython ?
I heard that rust has fewer target architectures. Is that a minus point with regards to C? Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MUKAEJSUKYUWAE2HYUOTFZ5ELF2TU2JL/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 676 -- PEP Infrastructure Process
There should be a pep somewhere to remove the "How to teach this" section for these kinds of peps. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:00 PM wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to announce PEP 676 to python-dev. It is a meta-PEP focussed > on modernising the PEP build infrastructure. From the abstract, "This PEP > addresses the infrastructure around rendering PEP files from > reStructuredText files to HTML webpages. We aim to specify a self-contained > and maintainable solution for PEP readers, authors, and editors." > > Link: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0676/ > Rendered through the PEP 676 system: > https://python.github.io/peps/pep-0676/ > > Please see https://discuss.python.org/t/10774 for prior discussion and to > give any feedback. > > Thanks, > > Adam Turner > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/C675PLAF535FSUL7KX4FS2NK6ZPPQ3HB/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/Z4L4BEFFSIIMCMQ7ETQU2FMG65GGVU4F/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Sad news from Zurich
I spent a lot of hours on effbot learning Tkinter. Never knew he was a Python contributor ... ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YGL6LOCQLU6TNXIO6VUZT4XMTJYRI3OW/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Preventing Unicode-related gotchas (Was: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python)
> GitHub specifically flags it as a possible exploit in a couple of cases, but also syntax highlights the return keyword appropriately. My guess is that Github did patch it afterwards as the paper does list Github as vulnerable > Uhhm. "weird unicode stuffs"? Please clarify. Wriggly texts just because they appear different Well, it's tool based but maybe compiler checks aka checks from the language side is something that should be insisted upon too to patch inconsistent checks across editors. The reason i was saying it's related to encodings is that when languages are impacted en masse, maybe it hints to a revision in the unicode standards at the very least warnings. As Steven above even before i posted the paper was hinting towards the vulnerability so maybe those in charge of the unicode standards should study and predict angles of attacks. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/UEF6RYKZLVOG2PPSGAMOLDEP6LPEG6UZ/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Preventing Unicode-related gotchas (Was: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python)
Greetings, > Now what happens? where do you go from there to a vunerability or backdoor? I think it might be a bit obvious that there is something funny going on if I see: if (user.admin == "root" and check_password_securely() or user.admin == "root" # Second string has hidden characters, do not remove it. ): elevate_privileges() Well, it's not so obvious. From Ross Anderson and Nicholas Boucher src: https://trojansource.codes/trojan-source.pdf See appendix H. for Python. with implementations: https://github.com/nickboucher/trojan-source/tree/main/Python Rely precisely on bidirectional control chars and/or replacing look alikes > There is no reason why linters and code checkers shouldn't check for invisible characters, Unicode confusables or mixed script identifiers and flag them. The interpreter shouldn't concern itself with such purely stylistic issues unless there is a concrete threat that can only be handled by the interpreter itself. I mean current linters. But it will be good to check those for sure. As a programmer, i don't want a language which bans unicode stuffs. If there's something that should be fixed, it's the unicode standard, maybe defining a sane mode where weird unicode stuffs are not allowed. Can also be from language side in the event where it's not being considered in the standard itself. I don't see it as a language fault nor as a client fault as they are considering the unicode docs but the response was mixed with some languages decided to patch it from their side, some linters implementing detection for it as well as some editors flagging it and rendering it as the exploit intended. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/I43MI4QYEERGEKX6YX6NCHCZTUAFWY4X/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Preventing Unicode-related gotchas (Was: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python)
Well, Yet another issue is adding vulnerabilities in plain sight. Human code reviewers will see this: if user.admin == "something": Static analysers will see if user.admin == "something": but will not flag it as it's up to the user to verify the logic of things and as such soft authors can plant backdoors in plain sight Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IS2AWOSUNMHUXN6M4WPWT5QUTQFNNBZI/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Tips on C and the CPython Codebase
Greetings list, I am going to start tinkering with the Python source again (on Linux) I previously built the source etc using Visual Studio on Windows Now the EFL ui libs re-ignited my passion for C while playing with python-efl And Chris last proposal made me want to re-play with the CPython codebase I dedicate time for Open Source as a maintainer but also as a learner. So i'd like to ask so as to maximise my chances playing around with CPython - Any well grounded C tutorial to recommend? I know CPP but need a recommendation for C which is easy to follow and goes deep the C way. Or really any tutorial/s which are helpful like code styles or any series or ... - Any coding environment which you recommend? - For devs guide i know there is the official docs, and VStinner's unofficial but very helpful guide and a core dev's book published. Is there anything to know? - Any more tips around? I guess sooner or later people figure out things but i'd be very happy to have some C tips which will certainly provide a speed boost. Thanks in advance! Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MKCYLU2F5AZMBUYG4WU4T7DCZN3VP57B/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Oh wow, this is really impressive
The last thing Py which got a from me was pip's caching mechanism when installing packages! ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/2KBC6XWFH5S6ONMY25XCZZRDASHWY3RS/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Python multithreading without the GIL
When you mean "an order of magnitude less overhead than the current CPython implementation" do you mean compared with the main branch? We recently implemented already almost everything is listed in this paragraph: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/27077 We also pack some extra similar optimizations in this other PR, including stealing the frame arguments from python to python calls: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/28488 This could explain why the performance is closer to the current master branch as you indicate: This means that if we remove the GIL + add the 3.11 improvements we should get some more speed? (or if those are integrated in the POC?) Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/UKO7C45UCVVIJUUBOSPZLUNR4CC3WNIL/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Worried about Python release schedule and lack of stable C-API
Thanks for info, that's becoming a black spot in the tool it seems. It's more for production codes, now I can give it a try! Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/26XIXA6EQR3N22YERVBWRUSKHDMZLM46/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Worried about Python release schedule and lack of stable C-API
> What I have heard repeatedly, from people who are paid to know, is that most > users don’t care about the latest features, and would rather stick to a > release until it becomes unsupported. (Extreme example: Python 2.) Just a quick note: Until black supports py3.10 fully, I'm sticking with py3.9 for dear life. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about | blog github Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IJU6XLQHNNT5PFYTNLT2IPRYPRRTZLWK/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Should PEP 8 be updated for Python 3 only?
Greetings, What about stating the version on each PEP8 file? Like the docs always refer to a version of Python Better, each version of Python can have it's PEP8 guide as language features added require style guidelines. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4X5W6F6Y7WLL2LOHHDNIUCQPGNRJQMRT/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython
A really awesome book, i was proposing a by the house training. The community is awesome, just some more twerkings needed as you always see the lost beginner wanting mentorship, the contributors contributing and the core-devs having no time to cater for a whole community of mentorship seekers. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MASJZFLZS7SHSYT27KMECPUMD7SSGZIH/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython
es like these pay off far more than just the docs though it can be included in the docs, but having some tidbit liberty addresses some on the fly issues. But not all people have time for that as juggling work, life and OpenSource is a great problem to solve. Personally i intend to help setting up the basics of it but it requires me to become a regular contributor, in the meanwhile, sharing some obeservations, ticking off some todos until i resume interest in tackling issues. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IDUW2KSZASTR64EX7E6ZK6ITQBXJZ6L3/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython
Greetings, On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 11:43 AM Chris Angelico wrote: > How is this "educational version" different from a forked git > repository? I'm confused here. > Oh i mean a forked git repository with internal-focused documentations, issues opened with description of changes to be made then repo set to READONLY. A way to view what the solved issues look like in included under 'internal-focused documentations' Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/6DFH2ZVEZ6HYQTYZYZYEG3FZT3KN67G6/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython
Greetings, One crucial missing piece in the Python world is the focus on internals of projects. You have many talks on usage and scaling but not enough on internals. Even less workshops. For OpenSource to thrive, you need people who master the codebase. It's a long process. You get there by having core contributors over time. How does a contributor becomes a core one? By getting the feet wet into the codebase and tackling more difficult as time passes. That's why instead of waiting for people to find issues, work on it, wait for validation, we can improve the training process without damage to the codebase. People get the educational version of the repo, solve the issues at their own pace up to the level where they'll feel confident to try a meaningful PR. Seeing it with the eye of a knowledgeable person makes will make them PR not just for the sake of PR but because of a real need. One practical way is also to point the intermediate steps to resources on the internet, like this and that C articles to get started with C, this article to understand this C behaviour, this talk at this conf to understand this part of the C API, i built a tool specifically to document those intermediate steps by gathering resources on the internet, will start using it soon: https://linkolearn.com/. I am part of the Flask Community Workgroup (It's due to be announced soon, but here is the link: https://flaskcwg.github.io/). One of the aims of it is education, a good deal about internals. We aim to roll out some initiatives by next year. What caused me to write the first post is that there seems to be a bottleneck somewhere when you see contributors overwhelmed by OpenSource tasks. If it were some obscure project I understand but not one of the most popular OpenSource product of today. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/473YV6T3RVI55KA45LA5KIA7FXQHBSEY/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython
Actual quote by "a Python Software Foundation fellow and contrib- utor to Python infrastructure projects" What frustrates me most is that we have an all-time high of Python developers and an all-time low on high quality contri- butions.[...] As soon as pivotal developers like Armin Ronacher slow down their churn, the whole community feels it immedi- ately. The moment Paul Kehrer stops working on PyCA we’re screwed. If Hawkowl stops porting, Twisted will never be on Python 3 and git. So we’re bleeding due to people who cause more work than they provide. [...] Right now everyone is benefitting from what has been built but due to lack of funding and contributions it’s deteriorating. I find that worrying, because Python might be super popular right now but once the consequences hit us, the opportunists will leave as fast as they arrived Book: ROADS AND BRIDGES: THE UNSEEN LABOR BEHIND OUR DIGITAL INFRASTRUCTURE Link, Page 76 link: https://www.fordfoundation.org/media/2976/roads-and-bridges-the-unseen-labor-behind-our-digital-infrastructure.pdf > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZTOIWHIWOYDKEUHVAVX53YWB2KWVMFZX/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython
On Thu, 13 May 2021, 01:09 Terry Reedy, wrote: > On 5/12/2021 2:50 PM, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > > Great news, just a tiny bit from me. > > I read the other day in the OpenSource report > > sponsored by the Ford Foundation a CPython > > contributor stating that we have an all time high > > count of Python users but an all time low number of > > contributors to CPython. I don't know how but > > we certainly need a fake path to help people start > > I presume you mean 'fast path'? > No i mean fake path in the sense of a fork of CPython with issues for learning purposes Then people work on solving the issues on their own without PRing. It helps them get close to the CPython source without waiting for merges or comments since the fix will be documented. It allows people to skill up without people involvement ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5ERKGBKB2RNE7HZPFAZNOFUAVMDKTJJS/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython
Great news, just a tiny bit from me. I read the other day in the OpenSource report sponsored by the Ford Foundation a CPython contributor stating that we have an all time high count of Python users but an all time low number of contributors to CPython. I don't know how but we certainly need a fake path to help people start contributing and level up to gain a pool of resources We don't need to wait for easy issues or things like that or wait for PR merge to level up. Yet you always see it: new people not knowing where to start, highly skilled contributors drowning and intermediate contributors moving slowly I know all contributors are doing awesome work but maybe something can be done to have a smarter skilling up stream ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/WRAZOTSTUFYPJHN2QWKCD2C3WS6HCGV7/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Clarification on the removal of generator-based coroutines in 3.10
Thanks for Mr David beazley's materials online, a beginner like me was able to understand this thread from the beginning. Rarely do i get to understand what the folks in here are rumbling about. He was also teaching compiler theory at university. Don't know if he ever contributed to CPython. Here's a direct effect of him on me: https://www.pythonkitchen.com/python-generators-in-depth/ Though i consider Mr Paul's comments as near trolling, i was able to appreciate his perspective this time If ever there is a newbie like me on this list, i'd recommend to vaccum in as much as possible from mr Beazley ^^ ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZBIVNECI36OFZ3H6WYJTJ74OWTRFNUF2/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Need help with python
Greetings, Please post to this list instead: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Really helpful folks over there! Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer about <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://www.pythonkitchen.com> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 8:25 PM hadi esmaeely wrote: > hi my name is hadi > i'm from iran (the country which filtering others and be filtered by > others) > i have started programming with python about 3 months and i'm very > interested in learning programming and python language but duo to > limitations of technologies and filtering the learning sources in my > country i can not find proper source for learning programming(we can use > vpn for some of websites but not effective enough). Because of that I must > learn and work in another country (In my country, programmers are not > valued). I am very interested in learning and immigrating to the > Netherlands(my dream country) for work and to meet with you and other great > programmers. But I don't know where to begin and how I can learn > programming and python language in the right way without wasting time. > I have studied 10 hours a day but I cannot conclude results. > i have read this books and articles: > beginning python from novice to professional > django 3 by example antonio mele > django for apis william s vincent > django for professionals > django web development with python - packt > fluent python > head first python > practical python design patterns apress(currently reading) > python in a nutshell(currently reading) > the self taught programmer > python 3 for absolute beginners > some django official documents > some python official documents > but i don't know how to use my learnings from books > If you help me to know how I can study in the right way ,I will appreciate > you for my whole life > thank you and happy new year :) > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/KOXQZ4HJDNDCRHWXNLBQ76SVF2FO2LFM/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/AOJ53GSSLBZOG4XQKTXY2UUQJNSSIVO4/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Who is target reader of tutorial?
@MarcoSulla You started from the tutorials? you are a real legend great people were already great before they became great it seems ~ Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://www.github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ Mauritius sent from gmail client on Android, that's why the signature is so ugly. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/Z4UC5PUJQ5HFEAF4RTC27TP2DVQML5QM/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Who is target reader of tutorial?
@PaulMoore i see this: There is a list of tutorials suitable for experienced programmers on the BeginnersGuide/Tutorials <http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers> page. written here: https://www.python.org/about/gettingstarted/ XD Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://www.github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ Mauritius > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XUKMWMLMTIKOARSHX7HQKILYNOSG3GPC/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Who is target reader of tutorial?
Was reading a tuto by vinay sajip on the official site the other day and i can say that the tutos are great, they just need to be more in numbers. With the old style look of the tutos i dont think as you pointed out that new readers will go through it. better resources exist. I suggest we keep it as well groomed tutos whereby people can know that if i need a good tuto, the py site has some. Beginner infos exist in abundance and quality materials pyramids to the top. I suggest we let masters write more articles, preferring coverage and conciseness over full depth (if someone wants a really detailed tuto, better go to the docs) Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://www.github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ Mauritius sent from gmail client on Android, that's why the signature is so ugly. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7TRTCIQVA7E23VQ2OOUIS322VRXTMYRM/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Python Documentation, Python language improvement, and productive discussion
Would be good to see @Lorena and @JulienPalard from the translation WG, might be helpful Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://www.github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ Mauritius sent from gmail client on Android, that's why the signature is so ugly. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GBEBD6YBN6AV52DLTXFBCG5WQDDATLRA/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [OT] I'm unsubscribing from this tire fire (formerly known as python-dev)
Greetings list, I am not some wizard Py programmer, but a learner and the threads are a shame to the Python community. When i subscribed i really expected the list to be technical but i guess i read wrong. Do they build the Python community, making folks more encouraged to contribute to CPython? The community point is a factor which allowed us to stand out across tech stack groups in our own country but if upstream the situation is unfavourable i fear it will make Python lose one of it's greatest allies. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://www.github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ Mauritius sent from gmail client on Android, that's why the signature is so ugly. On Mon, 6 Jul 2020, 09:46 Christian Heimes, wrote: > Y'all, > > trigger warning: strong opinion > > The Urban Dictionary defines the term "tire fire": > > A horrifying mess, either literally or figuratively > foul-smelling, that seems to last forever. > > The term describes my current view of python-dev perfectly. It has > always been a problematic and mentally draining place for, sometimes > even toxic. But the recent PEP-8 discussion trumps every past incident > (reference to US politics intended). > > > To every person still replying on the PEP-8 thread: > > You are making us sick and should be ashamed of yourself! > > And I don't mean 'sick' in the figurative sense. You are literally > hurting people who are spending their free and personal time to develop > open source software for you. I know of at least three cases among > Python core developers with symptoms like sleep disorder, tremor, > anxiety, and panic attacks. One core dev wrote publicly that they were > forced to take psychotropic medicine to counter a panic attack after > they have read just a few messages. > > > At one point I have even considered to retire from Python core > development completely. I'm profoundly disgusted and appalled by the > racist attitudes and self-importance of some people as well as an > unrelated incident on BPO last week. The two reasons I'm not leaving are > several core developers that I'm happy to call friends and Python > communities beyond predominantly male and Western participants on the > PEP-8 thread. Communities like PyLadies, PyCon Africa, PyLATAM, and > PyCon APAC make me proud and happy to be a member of the Python > community. I have met fantastic people at Python and OSS events in the > Caribbean, India, and East Europe. I don't want to abandon people I > cherish and grew fond of. > > > At least one other core developer has abandoned python-dev last week. > Others have stopped participating and posting on python-dev years ago. I > will follow their example now. > > Goodbye > Christian > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LR3RWME7NYAVAWGD2ZD5NPZAGL7VVI7K/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/QLPY4BRE5CLDGX5MNAMK3QWFVMDSNHR5/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments
Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer compileralchemy <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://abdur-rahmaanj.github.io/> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:34 PM Rhodri James wrote: > On 29/06/2020 17:24, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > > Threads like these are meaningless, does not provide any learning > > value and is nowhere near the single vs double quote thread. > > I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more. Since the PSF has seen fit to make > a political statement (re Black Lives Matter, and I don't particularly > disagree with either the statement or the choice of making it), threads > like these are both inevitable and necessary. > Good and nice but not on python-dev. The PSF is already taking appropriate steps on Twitter and relevant mediums. And in case of correction of individuals i feel it better be left in the hands of moderators. I prefer to maintain the purity of threads rather than seeing members leave or stay aloof after a bitter experience. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/2JNBID2QNBIKGTGTKX33VXCIQJNN7XYH/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments
Threads like these are meaningless, does not provide any learning value and is nowhere near the single vs double quote thread. It opens the gap for people who are not concerned about development jump in the game shifting the focus away while nurturing a culture of thrash I mean you tend to ignore threads from python-dev and python-ideas which is not probably why you subscribed in the first place This is not the first time i am saying that you can fly around the world on official Python mailing lists. But it's regrettable that it's the first time i am seeing people telling that they should educate others and things like that. It can be based on the argument and circle around it but personal attacks are off limit If this was a Github issue, i don't think you list moderators would have dragged it around that much. Worst case scenario, someone would have been pinged and the issue taken care of. A PR or closing and you are done. I raised the issue of closing a mail thread before and the impractical nature of it was discussed but maybe warnings and continued posting after the warning results in ban can be enforced And it's annoying that it got dragged to two mailing lists. I respect Python people and i am always eager to follow some C code discussions, deprecating this C API etc. It's a new world for me. Maybe active list members should sign a convention or a vetting process can be setup before we can discuss it on the lists. Not ideal but might be useful. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer compileralchemy <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://abdur-rahmaanj.github.io/> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 8:11 PM David Mertz wrote: > The commit message is simply silly. It introduces numerous contentious and > false claims that have nothing whatsoever to do with the small wording > change. It misunderstands how language, culture, history, and indeed white > supremacism, work. > > I would recommend amending the commit message. > > The underlying change itself is reasonable, and to my mind a small > improvement. There was unnecessary specificity in using Strunk and White as > reference, and not, say, William Zinsser's _On Writing Well_, which is > almost as well known. In the concrete, it would be exceedingly rare for > these to provide conflicting advice on a specific code comment. > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:34 AM Richard Damon > wrote: > >> On 6/29/20 6:22 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> > and describes the >> > old text as a "relic", which is another way of saying that the >> > problems were only there by historical accident, rather than by anyone >> > intentionally keeping it there. >> >> I would say that say that I have seen the term "relic" being used as a >> 'weaponized' word to imply that the old thing WAS there intentionally as >> a repressive measure. I am not saying that this usage was intended to be >> used that way, but just as the old wording was taken as offensive to >> some due to implication, I can see that message as offensive to others >> due to implication, all because some people are easy to offend. >> >> -- >> Richard Damon >> ___ >> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ >> Message archived at >> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/6EN5RNF5CFDKCF3ZYQV53XH5KTBCSAQ6/ >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> > > > -- > The dead increasingly dominate and strangle both the living and the > not-yet born. Vampiric capital and undead corporate persons abuse > the lives and control the thoughts of homo faber. Ideas, once born, > become abortifacients against new conceptions. > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/AMH7WMUOOZ4KAFYPVZO2BA5AQLWTCDR6/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/B426T6LT3TAFJHDNWBBAEWPTZKAFEM2K/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 614 accepted
Just for learning purposes, why was this improvement not included at the beginning? (I missed the original thread) Yours, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer pythonmembers.club <http://www.pythonmembers.club/> | github <https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ> Mauritius > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ADIM4XDZA6RNWCKSMBVH3XYDFC7GJ4UQ/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Windows - rebuilding grammar files
On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 1:26 PM Inada Naoki wrote: > His patch is merged already. > See https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/12654 Thanks, did not know! ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/WX3RXDXL635KM4JRTKVF6UXOA5OXFZRO/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Windows - rebuilding grammar files
Greetings list, On windows i want to play with the grammar file, but according to this article <https://realpython.com/cpython-source-code-guide/>: > For Windows, there is no officially supported way of running pgen. However, you can clone my fork <https://github.com/tonybaloney/cpython/tree/pcbuildregen> and run build.bat --regen from within the PCBuild directory. But i don't want to work from his fork. Is there an official way of regenerating the files? I just want to have my own keywords. As far as i've understood, rebuilding won't do it. Yours, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IBK2T4YR5JARRJOCNHRLI3JN2Z737JXH/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: PEP proposal to limit various aspects of a Python program to one million.
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer http://www.pythonmembers.club | https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius On Wed, 4 Dec 2019, 06:52 Chris Angelico, wrote: > Python made the choice to NOT limit > its integers, and I haven't heard of any non-toy examples where an > attacker causes you to evaluate 2**2**100 and eats up all your RAM. > Happened with an IRC bot of mine, allowed calculations (hey you need to keep rolling out new features). Someone calculated-crashed the bot by overstepping that limit (was the day i learnt that feature of Py) > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/JEOAUIDLTKOC72R3WB64JLXRDRGUCTGU/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Python 3.8 problem with PySide
No idea why gmail landed such an important email in the spam folder (i grit my teeth if pyside freezes @ <3.7) Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer http://www.pythonmembers.club | https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MPQQBY5TXAI7O3MCXJ2OLEZZMK47UHRN/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Replacing 4 underscores with a $ sign, idea for a PEP
forward? Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FF6OT3JEVMEHHRSNEPEJXRXM5M7XJIZ2/
Re: [Python-Dev] Best way to specify docstrings for member objects
I have the impression that the line between variables and docs is a tidbit too much blurred. Yours, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEPs from non-core devs now need a sponsor
i think that "should have at least a mentor guiding you" sounds a lot more better than a core developer needs to sign on to be a sponsor that sounds a lot more that without backing, you can't submit a pep, i guess the core devs wanted to make things easier but the sponsor thing etc put me off. for someone using py, ideas sometimes come but since i've not yet submitted a pep, when i see a change in the flow, i ask: will it be easier or more difficult to submit peps now? i really got the impression that now chances are slimmer. great idea that core mentors now volunteer to guide peps, sorry for trouble. yours, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer http://www.pythonmembers.club | https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEPs from non-core devs now need a sponsor
As a non core-dev, my enthusiasm for submitting a pep has been diminished by some 40%. yours, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer http://www.pythonmembers.club | https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Julien Palard joins the Python Release Team as Documentation Expert
Great, very well versed in docs management ^^ On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 7:04 AM Ned Deily wrote: > > https://discuss.python.org/t/julien-palard-joins-the-python-release-team-as-documentation-expert/313 > -- Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer Mauritius <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: We cannot fix all issues: let's close XML security issues (not fix them)
@VictorStinner snif, que dire? il me semble que cet issue ait pris une nouvelle dimension @appinv Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] We cannot fix all issues: let's close XML security issues (not fix them)
no time? i have seen them countless of time on this list e.g. no ... don't implement this in the workflow as my volunteer time will be lost etc etc etc. i guess a call for more core contributors will be nice. for myself i have some translations ahead (finally getting the chance to read the docs from cover to cover), but i guess actually core-contributing will be a nice experience. the problem with getting contributors is that the docs need to be more readable, more tutos need to be written (less people are contributors / pyramid effect -> less guides written). the devs are doing a nice job guiding etc but the first step must be made easier. lack of time for an exceedingly popular project, for a very open system as python hints to a bottleneck somehere, not that there are no interests, but that they get blocked. Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Use of Cython
since when they started working on it?(mypyc) Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] unsolicited removal request
no idea, a mail popped up in my inbox ... Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] unsolicited removal request
ah yes, that's it. thank you ! Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius On Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 17:41 Ryan Gonzalez, wrote: > I think you generally want to sent this to the list administrators > directly, but FWIW this has happened to me before. If it doesn't come up > again, you can probably ignore it. > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 1:43 AM Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer < > arj.pyt...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> just notifying that 199.103.2.101 >> was trying to remove me from this list. might try to remove others >> >> yours, >> >> Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer >> https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ >> Mauritius >> ___ >> Python-Dev mailing list >> Python-Dev@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >> Unsubscribe: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/rymg19%40gmail.com >> > -- > > Ryan (ライアン) > Yoko Shimomura, ryo (supercell/EGOIST), Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else > https://refi64.com/ > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] unsolicited removal request
just notifying that 199.103.2.101 was trying to remove me from this list. might try to remove others yours, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] TLS 1.3 support
my country, mauritius, had a participation in the dev, internet society vid : https://youtu.be/u6rz4PWA_As?t=4524 the red blue yellow green flag is our flag Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius On Thu, 16 Aug 2018, 17:27 Christian Heimes, wrote: > Hi, > > I have some exciting news. RFC 8446 [1] for TLS 1.3 was finalized a > couple of days ago. The new TLS standard comes with several major > improvements, but also with major changes. > > First some good news: > Python's ssl module not compiles with OpenSSL 1.1.1-pre. It's also able > to negotiate and establish TLS 1.3 connections successfully. Almost all > unit tests are passing, too. Yesterday I pushed some patches to fix 2.7, > 3.6, 3.7, and master. > > Of course, there is a catch. While TLS 1.0 to 1.2 were just gradual > improvements over SSLv3, TLS 1.3 behaves differently on several levels. > The article [2] from Nick Sullivan explains the biggest changes well. > Most improvements like 1-RTT handshake, enforced perfect forward secrecy > and improved cryptography are not visible to applications. However some > changes and new features are going to need additional work and new APIs. > > I'm open to discuss the matter at the core dev sprints in Seattle next > month. > > I'm still in the process of reviewing and assessing changes. OpenSSL > 1.1.1's APIs are not finalized yet, too. I'm working closely with Red > Hat's crypto team and OpenSSL devs on the topic. I'll walk you through > some changes and possibly new APIs that I have identified so far. > > > New cipher suites > = > > Old ciphers suites in TLS 1.2 and earlier looked like > >TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 > > The parameters are key agreement/key exchange (ECDHE), authentication > (RSA), bulk encryption (AES-256) with block and/or authenticated > encryption mode (GCM) and finally a pseudo random function for MAC. > > In TLS 1.3, the cipher suites only specify bulk encryption and PRF. The > parameters for key agreement and authentication are configured > differently. TLS 1.3 uses dedicated TLS extensions for that, too. This > allows more fine grained control to specific supported EC curves, > signature algorithms (RSA PKCS#1.5, RSASSA-PSS) and so on. Some settings > also apply to TLS 1.2 already. > > Further more, OpenSSL has introduced new APIs to configure TLS 1.3 > cipher suites. SSLContext.set_ciphers() cannot be used to disable TLS > 1.3 suites. For now, that is fine. All default algorithms are secure and > state-of-the-art. > > For 3.8, I'm planning to make some of the settings configurable. I might > need to backport the new APIs to 3.7 and 3.6, though. > > > post handshake authentication > = > > TLS 1.3 introduced the concept of post handshake authentication (PHA). A > server can either request a client to provide client cert authentication > during the handshake, directly after the handshake, or at any later > point. It makes optional authentication for HTTP much more sane. For > example a server may only require authentication for POST requests and > GET requests to /secure/* path. In TLS 1.2, optional client cert auth > requires a complete renegotiation of the handshake. > > OpenSSL 1.1.1-pre9 will most likely disable PHA by default [3], because > PHA breaks some assumptions of TLS 1.2 clients and servers. But PHA > might be required for path specific authentication. I need to wait and > see how mod_ssl implements the feature. > > I might have to add SSL_VERIFY_POST_HANDSHAKE, > SSL_verify_client_post_handshake(), and > SSL_CTX_set_post_handshake_auth() from [3][4] to Python 2.7, 3.6, 3.7 > and master. > > > session handling > > > TLS 1.3 uses a different approach to handle sessions. Simple speaking, > session data is exchanged after the handshake, there can be more than > one ticket, tickets must not be reused, and session resumption involved > DHE. ssl.SSLSession [5] feature only applies to TLS 1.2 and earlier. I > need to come up with a different approach here. For the time being, TLS > 1.3 won't be compatible with manual session control. It's not a big deal > since it is an advanced feature any way. > > The new session system also seems to break FTP over TLS. FTP uses two > different TCP connections (control channel, data channel). For FTP over > TLS, the data channel must reuse a session of the control channel. For > now, I'm plannung to restrict FTP to TLSv1.2. > > > 0-RTT resumption > = > > 0 round trip time handshake on session resumption is an optional and > advanced feature. I might expose the feature in Python 3.8. > > Regard
Re: [Python-Dev] Finding Guido's replacement
woops googler is a person working at google saw google-er, someone who googles Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finding Guido's replacement
not googler i mean google. they requested a change to a pep Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius > As the Googler who appeared on the mailing list, I can say this was just a > coincidence. I was a bit nervous no one would respond though, given Guido's > vacation :) > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finding Guido's replacement
sometimes back after the event the BDFL1 said that "the new BDFL might be less demanding" hint to an imminent new one? i won't tell much the core devs (not all) have already shown their preferences fun fact: weirdly enough after BDFL1 took a vac (for life?), google made it's appearance on the mailing list THE NEED FOR CENTRAL AUTHORITY there is an absolute need for a central coordinator. the main threat to open source projects is politics. when you have someone to settle stuffs, fine you move on PROCEDURE OF ACCEPTANCE since BDFL1 is still alive, that saves the community some trouble. he is i presume aware of py-related stuffs and his choosing of a successor is a most viable option PREMISE OF CHOICE the choice should be made in consultation with the core devs as they are recognised members of the community based on their contributions. the core devs should orient the choice, they in themselves have not the power to veto, topple or reverse the decision. in the unlikely case of complete unfavouritism, the BDFL1 can pursue further CORE DEVS AS COMMITTEE the above hints to the core devs as a body in itself, beyond programming VALIDITY OF CHOICE the choice of BDFL1 must be acknowledged by the community. psf members should vote of whether they like the choice or not, fir it is the users who make the language valuable. by psf members, reference is made to the basic type of membership, open to all py programmers who have agreed to the psf rules. in case of non agreement, the process is to be repeated CRITICISM OF THE BDFLs BY FORMER AND LATTER ONES no BFFL shall criticise others. in case of non-acceptance of actions, a PHA shall be submitted PHA a Python Halt Appeal is a document submitted to the current core devs and the current BDFL to halt a specific activity considered "nuisible" to the growth and development of python. in case of majority acceptance of the core devs, it shall be accepted THE NEED FOR ALTERNATIVE NAMING OF DICTATOR OR EMPHASISING THE MEANING the python leader if he has absolute power should not be questioned or should not be made to back out as his appointment is by definition CITING THIS DOCUMENT / LICENSE this mail can be freely used, modified or built upon provided that attribution is made to the author in clear ways with no obfuscation whatsoever Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Do we really need a ":" in ":="?
ok then was a point i wanted to clear btw smileys in this thread should have been :=) Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Do we really need a ":" in ":="?
*D in BDFL stands for Dictator. * The B diminishes that ex sugar not same as salty sugar Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Do we really need a ":" in ":="?
sorry for reviving the dead but community acceptance, a fundamental pep principle has not been respected for 572 also 29 core devs dislike vs 3 like maybe there are special cases where the BDFL can pin issues also, maybe there are two aspects, one disliking := and one the actual expression assignment as for me i don't like the := symbol Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Write vs Read, Understand and Control Flow
agree for => but how many people use pascal eiffel etc? (go has a chance) that's a reminder of an old, fading epoch, bland IDEs, hard-to-crunch fonts BDL Guido once remarked in a pycon talk that today agencies would've charged you a high price to tell you what the word python might tickle in the subconscious of the common user, we should maybe write on what ":=" tickles in the mind of most programmers Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Mauritius The fact that := will be familiar to many people (especially if they > know Go, Pascal or Eiffel etc) is a point in its favour. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignment_%28computer_science%29#Notation > > The => arrow puts the arguments around the "wrong" way compared to > regular assignment: > > name = expression > expression => name > > Although personally I like that order, many people did not and I think > Guido ruled it out very early in the discussion. > > Also it may be too easily confused with <= or >= or the -> syntax from > annotations. > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Write vs Read, Understand and Control Flow
was going to tell instead of := maybe => better := too close to other langs Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ Of the proposed syntaxes, I dislike identifer := expression less, but > I'd still rather not see it added. > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/arj.python%40gmail.com > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?
Maybe the only 1 thing needs an update : some nice ui else, i'm glad python has a gui library as one interested in languages, py is just crazy (though i miss some android apps using it). in a GPL, a gui library is one of those extra goodies if you would browse the source codes, you'd see good old compiler theories being used (no ANTLR for example) tkinter is pretty good. as one that still believes in tkinter and has as a result of it explored many apps, what you can do with tkinter is crazy. as to no one using it; did you consider production: installing a 3rd party package for what is already integrated ah just the docs, they are not as candy as python's docs to drop it, we use what? maybe we'll all join punching some bags before we get a stable gui package in production Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ On Thu, 3 May 2018, 00:55 Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev, < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > As https://bugs.python.org/issue33257 and > https://bugs.python.org/issue33316 showed, Tkinter is broken, for both > Py2 and Py3, with both threaded and non-threaded Tcl, since 2002 at > least, and no-one gives a damn. > > This seems to be a testament that very few people are actually > interested in or are using it. > > If that's so, there's no use keeping it in the standard library -- if > anything, because there's not enough incentive and/or resources to > support it. And to avoid screwing people (=me) up when they have the > foolishness to think they can rely on it in their projects -- nowhere in > the docs it is said that the module is only partly functional. > > -- > > Regards, > Ivan > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/arj.python%40gmail.com > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] How is the GitHub workflow working for people?
>FWIW I'm personally hugely happy with >the new workflow -- my only regret is >that we're not using GitHub for issue >tracking yet. Btw you can create your own issue labels. some pythonic names can be considered Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ On 22 Feb 2018 01:23, "Guido van Rossum" <gu...@python.org> wrote: ... ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 484 update proposal: annotating decorated declarations
I'm really new to the mailing list. Can someone just summarise the preceding message in 5 to 10 lines like what it is, what type is it or when does it happen Thanks for all, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer Vacoas, Mauritius https://abdurrahmaanjanhangeer.wordpress.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
