Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Governance Proposals

2018-10-27 Thread Jeroen Demeyer

On 2018-10-26 19:17, Brett Cannon wrote:

But since you're asking about wanting to "review PEPs", you can review
them now.


Unfortunately not everybody agrees on that...

See 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-October/155441.html in 
particular


I really hope that I won't have to wait 5 more months before a decision 
can be made on PEP 580.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Governance Proposals

2018-10-26 Thread Steve Holden
As a piece of pure experiential data based on some years trying to herd the
PSF cats, if python-dev can find a way of running its activities without
votes needing to be taken I would really emphasise the benefits of the lack
of such administration.

If voting is required, please consider using the PSF to manage such
activity.

Following the debate with interest, but mostly lurking due to my usual
absence of skin in the game. Bonne chance!

regards
 Steve

Steve Holden

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 13:20, Jeroen Demeyer  wrote:
>
>> What is the timeframe for the installation of the new governance? In
>> other words, when will it be possible to review PEPs?
>>
>
> PEP 8001 outlines the voting for the governance models which includes a
> planned schedule for that vote. After that it will vary depending on which
> governance model is chosen as some of them require electing people to
> positions while others don't. The overall goal is to have the whole ting
> resolved no later than probably March (but probably sooner than that).
> Basically this should not be a new thing come PyCon US in May.
>
> But since you're asking about wanting to "review PEPs", you can review
> them now. There hasn't been much change to them lately so they are pretty
> stable at this point.
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Governance Proposals

2018-10-26 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 13:20, Jeroen Demeyer  wrote:

> What is the timeframe for the installation of the new governance? In
> other words, when will it be possible to review PEPs?
>

PEP 8001 outlines the voting for the governance models which includes a
planned schedule for that vote. After that it will vary depending on which
governance model is chosen as some of them require electing people to
positions while others don't. The overall goal is to have the whole ting
resolved no later than probably March (but probably sooner than that).
Basically this should not be a new thing come PyCon US in May.

But since you're asking about wanting to "review PEPs", you can review them
now. There hasn't been much change to them lately so they are pretty stable
at this point.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Governance Proposals

2018-10-23 Thread Jeroen Demeyer
What is the timeframe for the installation of the new governance? In 
other words, when will it be possible to review PEPs?

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Governance Proposals

2018-10-23 Thread Stéfane Fermigier
+1 (for what it's worth) to any proposal which includes one (or more)
GUIDOs :)

  S.

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:57 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Last July, Guido van Rossum decided to resign from his role of BDFL.
> Python core developers decided to design a new governance/organization
> for Python. 6 governance PEPs have been proposed. It has been decided
> that discussions are reserved to core developers (everyone can read,
> but only core devs can write), since the governance will mostly impact
> the life of core developers. I'm writing this email to python-dev to
> keep you aware that something is happening :-)
>
> Core developers (of the GitHub team) will vote to decide the new
> Python governance in 3 weeks:
> "The vote will happen in a 2-week-long window from November 16 2018 to
> November 30 (Anywhere-on-Earth)."
>
> See PEP 8001: Python Governance Voting Process
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8001/
>
>
> Below are links to the governance PEPs, their abstract, and link to
> the Discourse discussions.
>
> Note: a Discourse instance is experimented at discuss.python.org to
> maybe replace python-{ideas,dev,committers} mailing lists. See the
> "Discourse Feedback" category at https://discuss.python.org/  :-)
>
>
> (1) PEP 8010: The BDFL Governance Model
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8010
>
> Abstract:
> """
> This PEP proposes a continuation of the singular project leader model,
> euphemistically called the Benevolent Dictator For Life (BDFL) model
> of Python governance, to be henceforth called in this PEP the Gracious
> Umpire Influencing Decisions Officer (GUIDO). This change in name
> reflects both the expanded view of the GUIDO as final arbiter for the
> Python language decision making process in consultation with the wider
> development community, and the recognition that "for life" while
> perhaps aspirational, is not necessarily in the best interest of the
> well-being of either the language or the GUIDO themselves.
>
> This PEP describes:
>
> * The rationale for maintaining the singular leader model
> * The process for how the GUIDO will be selected, elected, retained,
> recalled, and succeeded;
> * The roles of the GUIDO in the Python language evolution process;
> * The term length of service;
> * The relationship of the GUIDO with a Council of Pythonistas (CoP)
> that advise the GUIDO on technical matters;
> * The size, election, and roles of the CoP;
> * The decision delegation process;
> * Any changes to the PEP process to fit the new governance model;
>
> This PEP does not name a new BDFL. Should this model be adopted, it
> will be codified in PEP 13 along with the names of all officeholders
> described in this PEP, as voted on per the guidelines in PEP 8001.
> """
>
> Discussion:
> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-8010-the-singular-leader/188
>
>
> (2) PEP 8011: Python Governance Model Lead by Trio of Pythonistas
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8011
>
> Abstract:
> """
> This PEP proposes a governance model for the Core Python development
> community, led by a trio of equally authoritative leaders. The Trio of
> Pythonistas (ToP, or simply Trio) is tasked with making final
> decisions for the language. It differs from PEP 8010 by specifically
> not proposing a central singular leader, but instead a group of three
> people as the leaders.
>
> This PEP also proposes a formation of specialized workgroups to assist
> the leadership trio in making decisions.
>
> This PEP does not name the members of the Trio. Should this model be
> adopted, it will be codified in PEP 13 along with the names of all
> officeholders described in this PEP.
>
> This PEP describes:
>
> * The role and responsibilities of the Trio
> * Guidelines of how trio members should be formed
> * Reasoning of the group of three, instead of a singular leader
> * Role and responsibilities of Python core developers to the trio
> * Sustainability considerations
> * Diversity and inclusivity considerations
> """
>
> Discussion:
>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-8011-leadership-by-trio-of-pythonistas-top-or-simply-trio/199
>
>
> (3) PEP 8012: The Community Governance Model
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8012/
>
> Abstract:
> """
> This PEP proposes a new model of Python governance based on consensus
> and voting by the Python community. This model relies on workgroups to
> carry out the governance of the Python language. This governance model
> works without the role of a centralized singular leader or a governing
> council.
>
> It describes how, when, and why votes are conducted for decisions
> affecting the Python language. It also describes the criteria for
> voting eligibility.
>
> Should this model be adopted, it will be codified in PEP 13.
>
> This model can be affectionately called "The Least Worst Governance
> Model" by its property that while far from ideal, it's still the most
> robust one compared to the others. Since avoiding issues inherent to
> the other models is a paramount