[Python-Dev] distutils2 checking mails

2010-07-04 Thread Tarek Ziadé
Hi all !

I am sorry about the flood of mails in checkins this morning. It was annoying.

It seems to me that this is a general problem that will appear in
CPython too once it's in mercurial.
I think this can be easily fixed by a patch policy. I have just sent a
mail to python-ideas about this, to propose something.

Regards
Tarek

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 04.07.2010 00:59, schrieb "Martin v. Löwis":
>> This is perhaps a naive question, but hat do you gain with the
>> intermediate mirror clone of upstream? (Other than filling more of your
>> disk?)
> 
> In addition to the answer you got: this way of working is also the
> process that I arrived at, independently.
> 
> I see two uses, both based around the problem "creating a full clone
> will take a long time - much longer than a subversion checkout".
> 1. if I want several local checkouts (e.g. for testing separate
>features), I can clone them all from the local copy (thereby
>also preserving space, compared to independent clones)
> 2, throwing away local changes is not that easy in Mercurial,
>if you have committed them already.

Of course, in SVN throwing away committed changes is completely
impossible :)

> There are extensions to
>uncommit, but they are discouraged and have limitations.

I wouldn't say that.  strip works well and it does so logically,
once one understands the DAG.  The only thing discouraged is to strip
changesets once pushed to the public repo, but that holds as well for
getting rid of the changesets by making a new clone without them.

cheers,
Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Éric Araujo
The other risk with history-editing extensions is that they use the
merge and rebase machinery to do their work, so they require a clean
working directory. Otherwise you may loose uncommitted changes.

Not requiring any Mercurial extension to contribute to Python would be a
nice policy to lower the entry bar.

Regards

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 04.07.2010 13:29, schrieb Éric Araujo:
> The other risk with history-editing extensions is that they use the
> merge and rebase machinery to do their work, so they require a clean
> working directory. Otherwise you may loose uncommitted changes.

That's true.

> Not requiring any Mercurial extension to contribute to Python would be a
> nice policy to lower the entry bar.

That is already defeated by the need for the eol extension (which is now
built-in in hg 1.6).  Activating mq is something every developer should
manage...

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Éric Araujo
>> Not requiring any Mercurial extension to contribute to Python would be a
>> nice policy to lower the entry bar.
> 
> That is already defeated by the need for the eol extension (which is now
> built-in in hg 1.6).  Activating mq is something every developer should
> manage...

Okay, make that “not requiring any third-party Mercurial extension” :)

Some extensions are too useful to be left out, and since they’re shipped
with Mercurial the cost of using them is null (patchbomb, eol,
bookmarks, graphlog, progress, relink, crecord, rebase).

MQ is another beast, it’s a new way of using Mercurial for middle or
advanced users.

Cheers

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Martin Geisler
"Martin v. Löwis"  writes:

>> My question is basically the same as Terry Reedy's, but I'm going to
>> phrase it a bit differently:
>> 
>> This is perhaps a naive question, but why do you create a second local
>> clone instead of just creating a branch?
>
> IIUC, if you create a named branch, the branch will become globally
> visible when you push your changes back. I assume people will consider
> that clutter - it would be sufficient to just push the changes on the
> branch, along with commit messages, but not the branch itself (which
> would be only temporary, anyway).
>
> I'm not even sure how you pull changes from one branch into another:
> can somebody kindly explain the commands that would be required?

You don't -- it is tempting to think of a "named branch" as a kind of
container for changesets, but that metaphor makes people think that you
can put changesets "into" a named branch and takes them "out" again.

The opposite is in fact true: the changesets induce the named branch.
Each changeset has a field in its metadata that names the branch it is
on. So if you do

  hg branch X
  hg commit -m "Created X branch"

then the newly created changeset has branch="X" in its metadata. The X
branch has thus been created because of the changeset. If there are no
changesets with branch="X" in your repository, then there is no X
branch.


A named branch is thus more a labeling system -- changesets belonging to
the branch can (in principle) be scattered all over the repository. They
are normally a connected sub-graph, though, and Mercurial will complain
if you try to re-start a branch name.

Since the branch name is embedded into the changesets themselves, you
cannot changeset it without changing the identities of the changesets.

A branch appears in the output of 'hg branches' if there are any open
branch heads (a "branch head" is a changeset with no children on the
same named branch).

Use the 'hg commit --close-branch' command to make a closed branch head.
The branch is considered closed when it only has closed branch heads.


Summing up, the notion of named branches correspond quite closely to how
people model branches in Subversion: if you make your changes in the
directory branches/X/, then we say you "work on the X branch". These
revisions will always be on that branch. You can delete the branch by
deleting the directory from the HEAD revision. The changes remain in the
history and even after merging with trunk/, the old revision will of
course show that they were made in the branches/X/ directory.


Take a look at the bookmarks extension if you want to work with un-named
branches (often called anonymous branches) instead. These branches are
just a fork in the history graph, but they have no permanent name. The
bookmarks gives you a convenient way to refer to them. Without bookmarks
you can of course look at 'hg heads' or some other log viewer.

  http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/BookmarksExtension

Since Mercurial 1.6, you can push and pull the bookmarks between
repositories. They used to be local only, but this is now solved. See
the bottom of the wiki page.

-- 
Martin Geisler

Mercurial links: http://mercurial.ch/


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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 04.07.2010 13:53, schrieb Éric Araujo:
>>> Not requiring any Mercurial extension to contribute to Python would be a
>>> nice policy to lower the entry bar.
>> 
>> That is already defeated by the need for the eol extension (which is now
>> built-in in hg 1.6).  Activating mq is something every developer should
>> manage...
> 
> Okay, make that “not requiring any third-party Mercurial extension” :)

mq is anything but third-party.

> Some extensions are too useful to be left out, and since they’re shipped
> with Mercurial the cost of using them is null (patchbomb, eol,
> bookmarks, graphlog, progress, relink, crecord, rebase).
> 
> MQ is another beast, it’s a new way of using Mercurial for middle or
> advanced users.

mq contains the strip command.

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Éric Araujo
 Not requiring any Mercurial extension to contribute to Python would be a
 nice policy to lower the entry bar.
>>>
>>> That is already defeated by the need for the eol extension (which is now
>>> built-in in hg 1.6).  Activating mq is something every developer should
>>> manage...
>>
>> Okay, make that “not requiring any third-party Mercurial extension” :)
> 
> mq is anything but third-party.

Sorry, I didn’t want to imply that. What I meant was: Since eol is
already a requirement, and since extensions provide tremendously useful
things, it’s okay to require or recommend some of them.

MQ is in another category IMO not because it’s not shipped-with, since
it is, but because it makes you think differently that regular Mercurial
usage. (Not saying better or worse, just differently, thus a bit more
difficult for would-be contributors.)


> mq contains the strip command.

Which fits into regular Mercurial usage without requiring any MQ
knowledge, agreed.


By the way, is eol a requirement for people using Windows tools with
limitations only, or for every person that will clone Python?


Regards

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 04.07.2010 13:37, schrieb Martin Geisler:
> "Martin v. Löwis"  writes:
> 
>>> My question is basically the same as Terry Reedy's, but I'm going to
>>> phrase it a bit differently:
>>> 
>>> This is perhaps a naive question, but why do you create a second local
>>> clone instead of just creating a branch?
>>
>> IIUC, if you create a named branch, the branch will become globally
>> visible when you push your changes back. I assume people will consider
>> that clutter - it would be sufficient to just push the changes on the
>> branch, along with commit messages, but not the branch itself (which
>> would be only temporary, anyway).
>>
>> I'm not even sure how you pull changes from one branch into another:
>> can somebody kindly explain the commands that would be required?
> 
> You don't -- it is tempting to think of a "named branch" as a kind of
> container for changesets, but that metaphor makes people think that you
> can put changesets "into" a named branch and takes them "out" again.

I'm not sure if I misunderstand Martin's intent, but in principle, if you
want to merge one changes (not changesets!) branch into another, all you
need to do would be "hg merge ".   Subsequently committing
the merge (after fixing conflicts) creates a new changeset "on" the current
branch.

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Éric Araujo  wrote:
> By the way, is eol a requirement for people using Windows tools with
> limitations only, or for every person that will clone Python?

It's designed so that everyone can run it regardless of platform. If
someone chooses not to use it and messes up the line endings then the
central repository hooks will reject the commit.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Éric Araujo
> I'm not sure if I misunderstand Martin's intent, but in principle, if you
> want to merge one changes (not changesets!) branch into another, all you
> need to do would be "hg merge ".   Subsequently committing
> the merge (after fixing conflicts) creates a new changeset "on" the current
> branch.

Indeed, merges are branch-wise operations, not changeset-wise. You need
tricks to copy one changeset from a named branch into another one.

Copying changesets between a stable branch and a devel branch is easy if
the devel history is a strict superset of the stable history. Every
changesets landing into stable can then just be pulled into devel. This
means no different named branches for stable and devel. Not sure I’m
clear enough, I hope Mercurial experts can chime in.

Regards

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Martin Geisler
Éric Araujo  writes:

>> I'm not sure if I misunderstand Martin's intent, but in principle, if
>> you want to merge one changes (not changesets!) branch into another,
>> all you need to do would be "hg merge ". Subsequently
>> committing the merge (after fixing conflicts) creates a new changeset
>> "on" the current branch.
>
> Indeed, merges are branch-wise operations, not changeset-wise. You
> need tricks to copy one changeset from a named branch into another
> one.

You basically need to replay the changes -- the transplant extension can
do this for you. This is more or less a wrapper around 'hg export'
(gives you a diff) and 'hg import' (applies the diff).

> Copying changesets between a stable branch and a devel branch is easy
> if the devel history is a strict superset of the stable history. Every
> changesets landing into stable can then just be pulled into devel.
> This means no different named branches for stable and devel. Not sure
> I’m clear enough, I hope Mercurial experts can chime in.

It sounds like you are describing how Mercurial itself was developed
before we began using named branches. This part of the graph is typical
for us then:

  http://selenic.com/repo/hg/graph/52c5be55af82

Notice the three merges wtih 'crew-stable', which was what we called the
clone representing the next stable release. Whenever a bugfix is made,
it is immediatedly merged into the 'crew' clone, where normal
development takes place. This gives a characteristic flow with two
tracks (branches), where one is continuously merged into the other.

The two with commit message "Fix typeerror when specifying both --rebase
and --pull" (dd1b47e17d7e and aee8455ee8ec) are a typical example of a
transplanted changeset: the bug was first fixed in 'crew', but it was
then realized that it should also be in the 'crew-stable' repository so
that it could be part of the next point release.

Today we use a 'stable' branch in addition to the 'default' branch and
the graph looks much the same:

  http://selenic.com/repo/hg/graph/4d3288197717

You'll notice the small labels saying 'stable' on the changesets from
that branch -- that is the whole difference. A named branch is made up
by the changesets that same the branch name, but the graph itself works
the same.

The nice thing about our current setup is that I can do

  hg update stable

and the name 'stable' is then interpreted as the tip-most changeset on
the stable branch.

-- 
Martin Geisler

Mercurial links: http://mercurial.ch/


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[Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Python 2.7 released

2010-07-04 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On behalf of the Python development team, I'm jocund to announce the second
release candidate of Python 2.7.

Python 2.7 will be the last major version in the 2.x series. However, it will
also have an extended period of bugfix maintenance.

2.7 includes many features that were first released in Python 3.1. The faster io
module, the new nested with statement syntax, improved float repr, set literals,
dictionary views, and the memoryview object have been backported from 3.1. Other
features include an ordered dictionary implementation, unittests improvements, a
new sysconfig module, auto-numbering of fields in the str/unicode format method,
and support for ttk Tile in Tkinter.  For a more extensive list of changes in
2.7, see http://doc.python.org/dev/whatsnew/2.7.html or Misc/NEWS in the Python
distribution.

To download Python 2.7 visit:

 http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/

2.7 documentation can be found at:

 http://docs.python.org/2.7/

This is a production release and should be suitable for all libraries and
applications.  Please report any bugs you find, so they can be fixed in the next
maintenance releases.  The bug tracker is at:

 http://bugs.python.org/


Enjoy!

--
Benjamin Peterson
Release Manager
benjamin at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 2.7's contributors)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration readiness

2010-07-04 Thread Éric Araujo
[Martin Geisler]
> You basically need to replay the changes -- the transplant extension can
> do this for you. This is more or less a wrapper around 'hg export'
> (gives you a diff) and 'hg import' (applies the diff).

Core developers seem to be okay with svnmerge, so perhaps a
familiar-looking command like transplant (with “merges” that are
actually replays, and explicit blocking for bookkeeping) will feel right
to them.

> It sounds like you are describing how Mercurial itself was developed
> before we began using named branches.

Spot on, sir!

> [snip] You'll notice the small labels saying 'stable' on the changesets
> from that branch -- that is the whole difference.

Thanks for the explanation. The new workflow seems quite good.

Regards

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[Python-Dev] Thank yous

2010-07-04 Thread Benjamin Peterson
Now that Python 2.7 is out, I'd like to thank a few of the people who
made it possible:

- Martin for building Windows Installers to my schedule, maintaining
the tracker and PyPi, and providing lots of guidance and advice.
- Ronald for building Mac installers.
- Tarek for picking up the reins of distutils.
- Jesse for being responsive to last minute multiprocessing bugs.
- Georg for keeping the documentation excellent and numerous bug fixes.
- Victor for fixing obscure unicode bugs and segfaults.
- Ezio for plugging unicode holes and fixing docs.
- Alexander Belopolsky for taking up datetime.
- R. David Murray for picking up the email module.
- Alexandre Vassalotti for various backports.
- Mark for oiling Python's mathematical gears and explaining floating
point to me.
- Antoine for backporting the improved io module, memoryviews,
adopting the ssl module, and numerous bug fixes.
- Barry for mentoring me in the release process and testing out release.py.
- Dirkjan for always getting us closer to Mercurial migration.
- Andrew for writing "What's New in Python 2.7?" That's a lot of
changes to keep up with.
- And, of course, all of the people who reported bugs or submitted patches.


Thank you once again,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Python 2.7 released

2010-07-04 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2010/7/4 Benjamin Peterson :
> On behalf of the Python development team, I'm jocund to announce the second
> release candidate of Python 2.7.

Arg!!! This should, of course, be "final release".



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Python 2.7 released

2010-07-04 Thread Larry Hastings

On 07/04/2010 08:34 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm jocund to announce the second
release candidate of Python 2.7.
   


s/second release candidate/release/

*standing ovation*


//larry//
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[Python-Dev] 2.7 hg mirror

2010-07-04 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:34:57 -0500
Benjamin Peterson  wrote:

> On behalf of the Python development team, I'm jocund to announce the second
> release candidate of Python 2.7.
> 
> Python 2.7 will be the last major version in the 2.x series. However, it will
> also have an extended period of bugfix maintenance.

A Mercurial mirror is also available for the 2.7 maintenance branch:
http://code.python.org/hg/branches/release2.7-maint/
As usual, the full list of mirrors can be viewed at:
http://code.python.org/hg

Regards

Antoine.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Thank yous

2010-07-04 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Benjamin Peterson  wrote:
..
> - Alexander Belopolsky for taking up datetime.

I am honored that my contributions have been noticed, but would not be
able to contribute as much without support from Mark Dickinson.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Signs of neglect?

2010-07-04 Thread Éric Araujo
Hello pydev

I’d like to volunteer to maintain a tool but I’m not sure where I can
help. I’m already proposing changes to Brett for
Tools/scripts/patchcheck.py, and I have commented on Tools/i18n bugs,
but these ones are already maintained by their authors (e.g. Barry is
assigned pygettext bugs) and I’m by no means a gettext expert.

If I adopt a tool, it will still require some core dev time to review
and commit, but I’ll do the bug triage, discussion and coding.

I suggest that each adoption starts with a reindent.py run and a PEP 8
compliance check. Let demos and tools become a showcase to be proud of!

I have opened a bug to discuss adding a simple sanity test that would
just make sure tools and demos can run without syntax errors:
http://bugs.python.org/issue9153

There was an open bug about demos, http://bugs.python.org/issue7962,
I’ve widened it into a meta-bug for demos and tools. (I hope it is
okay.) Please comment, adopt or condemn demos and tools in that report.

Hope this helps.

Regards

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Re: [Python-Dev] Thank yous

2010-07-04 Thread Paul Moore
On 4 July 2010 17:02, Benjamin Peterson  wrote:
> Now that Python 2.7 is out, I'd like to thank a few of the people who
> made it possible:

And not forgetting Benjamin himself for managing the whole thing!

Paul.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Thank yous

2010-07-04 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Paul Moore  wrote:
> On 4 July 2010 17:02, Benjamin Peterson  wrote:
>> Now that Python 2.7 is out, I'd like to thank a few of the people who
>> made it possible:
>
> And not forgetting Benjamin himself for managing the whole thing!

+1. Thanks a lot for your hard work
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[Python-Dev] issue 9141

2010-07-04 Thread Kristján Valur Jónsson
Dear colleagues:

I'd like to have your input on
http://bugs.python.org/issue9141
"Allow objects to decide if they can be collected by GC."

This generalizes the dynamic discovery of finalization state of objects, as 
already provided for generator objects with PyGen_NeedsFinalizing(),to any 
object.

Kristján
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Re: [Python-Dev] blocking 2.7

2010-07-04 Thread Terry Reedy

On 7/4/2010 2:31 AM, Éric Araujo wrote:

But Python tests lack coverage stats, so it is hard to say anything.

FYI: http://coverage.livinglogic.de/


Turns out the audioop is one of the best covered modules, at 98%


--
Terry Jan Reedy


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Re: [Python-Dev] More detailed build instructions for Windows

2010-07-04 Thread Brett Cannon
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 15:40, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:
> Am 03.07.2010 16:34, schrieb Christian Heimes:
>> Am 03.07.2010 09:00, schrieb "Martin v. Löwis":
 I'm trying to test out a patch to add a timeout in subprocess.py on
 Windows, so I need to build Python with Visual Studio.  The docs say
 the files in PCBuild/ work with VC 9 and newer.
>>>
>>> Which docs did you look at specifically that said "and newer"? That
>>> would be a bug.
>>
>> The readme.txt in the PCbuild directory contains the sentence "Microsoft
>> Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition is required at the very least". The
>> wording could be interpreted as "2008 at very least" instead of "Express
>> Edition at very least".
>
> That's what I expected to get as an answer - interestingly enough, Reid
> was looking at some other place (the FAQ) that literally said "and
> newer". I'd call that an error, even though, technically, converting the
> projects to VS 2010 "ought to work" (i.e. it did after I committed some
> fixes to make it work).

FAQ updated with "and newer" stripped out.

-Brett


>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Thank yous

2010-07-04 Thread Jesse Noller
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Tarek Ziadé  wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Paul Moore  wrote:
>> On 4 July 2010 17:02, Benjamin Peterson  wrote:
>>> Now that Python 2.7 is out, I'd like to thank a few of the people who
>>> made it possible:
>>
>> And not forgetting Benjamin himself for managing the whole thing!
>
> +1. Thanks a lot for your hard work

Seriously Benjamin, you've done a great job.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Thank yous

2010-07-04 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 04.07.2010 22:45, schrieb Jesse Noller:
> On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Tarek Ziadé  wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Paul Moore  wrote:
>>> On 4 July 2010 17:02, Benjamin Peterson  wrote:
 Now that Python 2.7 is out, I'd like to thank a few of the people who
 made it possible:
>>>
>>> And not forgetting Benjamin himself for managing the whole thing!
>>
>> +1. Thanks a lot for your hard work
> 
> Seriously Benjamin, you've done a great job.

Totally!  *cheer*

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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