Re: [Python-Dev] My fork lacks a 3.7 branch - can I create it somehow?

2018-05-23 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 22 May 2018 19:10:49 -0500
Tim Peters  wrote:

> [Nathaniel Smith ]
> > ...
> > As far as git is concerned, the main repo on github, your fork on
> > github, and your local repo are 3 independent repositories, equally
> > valid. The relationships between them are purely a matter of
> > convention.  
> 
> Thanks for that!  It instantly cleared up several mysteries for me.
> I'm just starting to learn git & github, and am starkly reminded of an
> old truth:  there is absolutely nothing "obvious" about source-control
> systems, or workflows, before you already know them ;-)

I think you'll find out that git can be especially non-obvious :-)

Regards

Antoine.


___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] My fork lacks a 3.7 branch - can I create it somehow?

2018-05-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tim Peters writes:

 > there is absolutely nothing "obvious" about source-control systems,
 > or workflows, before you already know them ;-)

Obvious, adj.: More an expletive than a true adjective, shows a state
of mind in which the speaker is comfortable that a statement fits her
preconceptions.  Conveys little, if any, information.
Syn.: intuitive, natural.
-- The *New* New Devil's Dictionary

___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] My fork lacks a 3.7 branch - can I create it somehow?

2018-05-23 Thread Paul Moore
On 23 May 2018 at 09:14, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2018 19:10:49 -0500
> Tim Peters  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that!  It instantly cleared up several mysteries for me.
>> I'm just starting to learn git & github, and am starkly reminded of an
>> old truth:  there is absolutely nothing "obvious" about source-control
>> systems, or workflows, before you already know them ;-)
>
> I think you'll find out that git can be especially non-obvious :-)

My understanding is that git becomes more obvious when you understand
that it's not actually a source control system at all but rather a
data model for text and changes. (Or something like that, I haven't
reached that level of enlightenment myself yet...)

Paul
___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] FINAL WEEK FOR 3.7.0 CHANGES!

2018-05-23 Thread Serhiy Storchaka

15.05.18 14:51, Ned Deily пише:

This is it! We are down to THE FINAL WEEK for 3.7.0! Please get your
feature fixes, bug fixes, and documentation updates in before
2018-05-21 ~23:59 Anywhere on Earth (UTC-12:00). That's about 7 days
from now. We will then tag and produce the 3.7.0 release candidate.
Our goal continues been to be to have no changes between the release
candidate and final; AFTER NEXT WEEK'S RC1, CHANGES APPLIED TO THE 3.7
BRANCH WILL BE RELEASED IN 3.7.1. Please double-check that there are
no critical problems outstanding and that documentation for new
features in 3.7 is complete (including NEWS and What's New items), and
that 3.7 is getting exposure and tested with our various platorms and
third-party distributions and applications. Those of us who are
participating in the development sprints at PyCon US 2018 here in
Cleveland can feel the excitement building as we work through the
remaining issues, including completing the "What's New in 3.7"
document and final feature documentation. (We wish you could all be
here.)


Is it possible to add yet one beta instead?

CI was broken for few latest days, tests are not passed on my computer 
still (and fail on some buildbots), updating What's New exposed new 
features which need additional testing (and maybe fixing or reverting), 
and I'm not comfortable about some changes which would be harder to fix 
after the release.

___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] FINAL WEEK FOR 3.7.0 CHANGES!

2018-05-23 Thread Victor Stinner
Ah, Python doesn't compile on Windows anymore :-)
https://bugs.python.org/issue33614

Victor

2018-05-23 14:16 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner :
> 2018-05-23 13:45 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka :
>> CI was broken for few latest days, tests are not passed on my computer still
>> (and fail on some buildbots), (...)
>
> I looked at buildbots and I confirm that many of the 3.x buildbots are red:
>
> AMD64 FreeBSD 10.x Shared 3.x
> AMD64 Windows8.1 Non-Debug 3.x
> ARMv7 Ubuntu 3.x
> PPC64 Fedora 3.x
> s390x RHEL 3.x
> x86 Gentoo Installed with X 3.x
> x86 Gentoo Refleaks 3.x
> AMD64 Windows8.1 Refleaks 3.x
>
> Victor
___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] FINAL WEEK FOR 3.7.0 CHANGES!

2018-05-23 Thread Victor Stinner
2018-05-23 13:45 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka :
> CI was broken for few latest days, tests are not passed on my computer still
> (and fail on some buildbots), (...)

I looked at buildbots and I confirm that many of the 3.x buildbots are red:

AMD64 FreeBSD 10.x Shared 3.x
AMD64 Windows8.1 Non-Debug 3.x
ARMv7 Ubuntu 3.x
PPC64 Fedora 3.x
s390x RHEL 3.x
x86 Gentoo Installed with X 3.x
x86 Gentoo Refleaks 3.x
AMD64 Windows8.1 Refleaks 3.x

Victor
___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] FINAL WEEK FOR 3.7.0 CHANGES!

2018-05-23 Thread Ned Deily
On May 23, 2018, at 07:45, Serhiy Storchaka  wrote:
> 15.05.18 14:51, Ned Deily пише:
>> This is it! We are down to THE FINAL WEEK for 3.7.0! Please get your
>> feature fixes, bug fixes, and documentation updates in before
>> 2018-05-21 ~23:59 Anywhere on Earth (UTC-12:00). That's about 7 days
>> from now. We will then tag and produce the 3.7.0 release candidate.
>> Our goal continues been to be to have no changes between the release
>> candidate and final; AFTER NEXT WEEK'S RC1, CHANGES APPLIED TO THE 3.7
>> BRANCH WILL BE RELEASED IN 3.7.1. Please double-check that there are
>> no critical problems outstanding and that documentation for new
>> features in 3.7 is complete (including NEWS and What's New items), and
>> that 3.7 is getting exposure and tested with our various platorms and
>> third-party distributions and applications. Those of us who are
>> participating in the development sprints at PyCon US 2018 here in
>> Cleveland can feel the excitement building as we work through the
>> remaining issues, including completing the "What's New in 3.7"
>> document and final feature documentation. (We wish you could all be
>> here.)
> Is it possible to add yet one beta instead?
> 
> CI was broken for few latest days, tests are not passed on my computer still 
> (and fail on some buildbots), updating What's New exposed new features which 
> need additional testing (and maybe fixing or reverting), and I'm not 
> comfortable about some changes which would be harder to fix after the release.

it is possible but there's no point in doing either another beta or a release 
candidate until we understand and address the current blocking issues, like the 
major buildbot failures.  We have another 24 hours until rc1 was planned to be 
tagged.  Let's keep working on the known issues and we will make a decision 
then.

--
  Ned Deily
  [email protected] -- []

___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: 576 Title: Rationalize Built-in function classes

2018-05-23 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 23 May 2018 at 05:47, Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 10:07 AM, Steve Dower 
> wrote:
>
>> On 22May2018 0741, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>>> ISTR there are plenty of PEPs that never get posted to python-ideas
>>> because they are discussed on a separate list.
>>>
>>
>> There are often better venues for the initial discussion (such as
>> security-sig, distutils-sig or datetime-sig), but I think that's orthogonal
>> from posting the full text of a PEP.
>>
>
> I don't think that the original rationale for posting the full text of a
> PEP to a mailing list still applies. The raw text is on GitHub in the
> python/peps repo, and the formatted text is on python.org. We're not some
> kind of bureaucratic org that pretends to still live in the world of paper
> and pencil.
>

The raw text being on Github rather than hg.python.org makes the rationale
for archiving full copies on mail.python.org stronger, not weaker.

That said, if the aim is to keep discussion in another place (such as
>> github), you really don't want copies floating around any other mailing
>> lists. Eventually I'd hope it comes through for final review though, as I'm
>> sure a number of us are unlikely to click through to github unless we have
>> a specific interest in the topic.
>
>
>
> IMO if you can't be bothered to click through on GitHub you forfeit your
> right to comment. (Which isn't a right anyway, it's a privilege.)
>

I would never consider it an acceptable process restriction to require
people to sign up for an account with a proprietary American software
company in order to comment on the future of the Python programming
language.

If folks get more feedback than they have the ability to process in a short
amount of time, then "Deferred" is a perfectly reasonable state to put a
PEP into until they *do* have time to go through and account for the
feedback - it isn't like it's a major disaster if we put an idea back on
the shelf for a couple of months (or years!), let folks mull it over for a
while, and then reconsider it later with fresh eyes.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]   |   Brisbane, Australia
___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] My fork lacks a 3.7 branch - can I create it somehow?

2018-05-23 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 23 May 2018 at 19:25, Paul Moore  wrote:

> On 23 May 2018 at 09:14, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 May 2018 19:10:49 -0500
> > Tim Peters  wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for that!  It instantly cleared up several mysteries for me.
> >> I'm just starting to learn git & github, and am starkly reminded of an
> >> old truth:  there is absolutely nothing "obvious" about source-control
> >> systems, or workflows, before you already know them ;-)
> >
> > I think you'll find out that git can be especially non-obvious :-)
>
> My understanding is that git becomes more obvious when you understand
> that it's not actually a source control system at all but rather a
> data model for text and changes. (Or something like that, I haven't
> reached that level of enlightenment myself yet...)
>

For data structure wonks,
http://eagain.net/articles/git-for-computer-scientists/ can be more
informative than any number of git usage guides :)

The mapping from command line incantations to their effect on the DAG can
be a little (*cough*) obscure, but having the right mental model of what's
going on at a data structure level can still help enormously.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]   |   Brisbane, Australia
___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: 576 Title: Rationalize Built-in function classes

2018-05-23 Thread Guido van Rossum
We should take the discussion about how and where PEP discussions should be
hosted off this thread and list.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:59 AM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:

> On 23 May 2018 at 05:47, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 10:07 AM, Steve Dower 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22May2018 0741, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>
 ISTR there are plenty of PEPs that never get posted to python-ideas
 because they are discussed on a separate list.

>>>
>>> There are often better venues for the initial discussion (such as
>>> security-sig, distutils-sig or datetime-sig), but I think that's orthogonal
>>> from posting the full text of a PEP.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think that the original rationale for posting the full text of a
>> PEP to a mailing list still applies. The raw text is on GitHub in the
>> python/peps repo, and the formatted text is on python.org. We're not
>> some kind of bureaucratic org that pretends to still live in the world of
>> paper and pencil.
>>
>
> The raw text being on Github rather than hg.python.org makes the
> rationale for archiving full copies on mail.python.org stronger, not
> weaker.
>
> That said, if the aim is to keep discussion in another place (such as
>>> github), you really don't want copies floating around any other mailing
>>> lists. Eventually I'd hope it comes through for final review though, as I'm
>>> sure a number of us are unlikely to click through to github unless we have
>>> a specific interest in the topic.
>>
>>
>>
>> IMO if you can't be bothered to click through on GitHub you forfeit your
>> right to comment. (Which isn't a right anyway, it's a privilege.)
>>
>
> I would never consider it an acceptable process restriction to require
> people to sign up for an account with a proprietary American software
> company in order to comment on the future of the Python programming
> language.
>
> If folks get more feedback than they have the ability to process in a
> short amount of time, then "Deferred" is a perfectly reasonable state to
> put a PEP into until they *do* have time to go through and account for the
> feedback - it isn't like it's a major disaster if we put an idea back on
> the shelf for a couple of months (or years!), let folks mull it over for a
> while, and then reconsider it later with fresh eyes.
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]   |   Brisbane, Australia
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
Python-Dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com