RE: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack

2012-05-10 Thread Adrian Hunt 

Hi ya,

Please don't attack me or pull me into the centre of this conflict... I don't 
have any idea of what is really happening here; other than that I've read on 
the python-list mailing list.  Your right, I have never released any code, 
under any license of any description. I have only offered snippets of code to 
people/projects to be used as they see fit (besides my professional 
developments and private projects.)

All I did was to answer a mail sent to me by Ian Kelly (who I don't konw nor 
have ever had any prior contact with) about releasing code under a license... 
And, what I said stands: once anyone releases code, they are bound by the 
license they released it under as much as anyone else that may use it and 
cannot then withdraw that code from the domain they released it to (except by 
maybe creating a new and different version.)

Being dyslexic, my message (and this one) may not be worded in the best way but 
that is no reason to start on me!


Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 22:56:43 -0300
From: ricar...@gmail.com
To: cybor...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack


  

  
  
On 09/05/12 20:04, Adrian Hunt wrote:

  
  
Hi Ian,



Well there you have me... You release code under a license, you
bound by it even if later you think better of it...  Seller be
ware!!

  



Sorry, but you are not being accurate. 

You don't release code under a license, James Tauber did, or the
Google Web Toolkit did. So you are in no positon to think better of
it even if it was allowed to the original releaser.




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RE: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack

2012-05-10 Thread Adrian Hunt 

Hi there,

Yes, it's very messy by what I understand and is why Merlio never had it's 
judgements enforced. Although, employment contracts that were in place at the 
time (including mine), were declared null and void...   I think it was 
something like: if a programmer has an idea and uses it within an employers 
project then the employer has a legal claim to that implementation but not to 
the original idea. And, a contract that claims IP rights would stop a developer 
from ever working again as a programmer: this again, being illegal and making 
the contract null and void.  With internationalization, the problem is 
compounded as different countries have different laws.

Since my days at Merlio, I have managed to avoid singing any contract that 
claims IP and I have worked for some large international companies (from within 
the UK.)


 Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 10:27:27 +1000
 Subject: Re: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack
 From: ros...@gmail.com
 To: python-list@python.org
 
 On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk 
 wrote:
  Google was a right PITA but eventually I found this
  http://www.legalcentre.co.uk/intellectual-property/guide/intellectual-property-and-employees/
   It appears to contradict what you've said above, or have I misread it?  E.g
  Under the (Patents) Act (1977), there is a presumption that an employer
  will own the patent of an invention made by its employee if the invention
  was made in the employee’s normal or specifically assigned duties and
  either, an invention might reasonably be expected to result from such duties
  or, the employee has a special obligation to further the employee’s
  interests, arising from the nature of those duties and responsibilities and
  the employee’s status.
 
 That's patents... intellectual property goes by other rules I think. I
 am not a lawyer, and I try to avoid getting placed in any position
 where this sort of thing will come up, because it's messy...
 especially with internationalization.
 
 ChrisA
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RE: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack

2012-05-10 Thread Adrian Hunt 

lol, Cheers Chris.

Just so you know, I care about what and how I write... I almost always run my 
emails though a word-processor before sending. And, that has paid off for me: 
thanks to MS Word, MS Works and Open Office, I have better understanding of 
correct punctuation use (if not spelling and grammar) than most school 
leavers!!!

PS. It hasn't gone a miss that you are one of the core python-list responders 
(and I bet this goes for most of the python-list users): your responses, time 
and knowledge is appreciated... Thank you.

 Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 09:57:49 +1000
 Subject: Re: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack
 From: ros...@gmail.com
 To: python-list@python.org
 
 On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Adrian Hunt cybor...@hotmail.com wrote:
  All I did was to answer a mail sent to me by Ian Kelly (who I don't konw nor
  have ever had any prior contact with) about releasing code under a
  license... And, what I said stands: once anyone releases code, they are
  bound by the license they released it under as much as anyone else that may
  use it and cannot then withdraw that code from the domain they released it
  to (except by maybe creating a new and different version.)
 
 And that's absolutely correct. Open source licenses are deliberately
 worded to guarantee rights in perpetuity, so there's no way to
 withdraw it or change the license (though of course a copyright owner
 can release the same code under an additional license).
 
  Being dyslexic, my message (and this one) may not be worded in the best way
  but that is no reason to start on me!
 
 Your message is fine. Believe you me, I'd much rather read a message
 posted by a non-native English speaker, or a dyslexic person, or
 someone who has a clinical aversion to the letter 'q', than someone
 who's simply sloppy and doesn't care about their language at all.
 
 Chris Angelico
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RE: Creating a Windows installer for Python + a set of dependencies

2012-05-10 Thread Adrian Hunt 

Hi there,

I've use NSIS for quite a few projects... NSIS will do it with ease. You write 
a script that gets compiled into a install exe and the scripting language is 
not too hard to learn. You can do it in several different ways:

1. You can include the Python installer as a file compressed into your 
installer (that is decompressed to a temp directory before being run.)
2. The Python installer could be a included along side you installer and run as 
needed
3. You can specify a URL to the Python install to be downloaded and installed 
(again using a temp directory.)

You can even use a mix... If an internet connection is available download it, 
if not fall back to one of the other methods. If you can come up with yet 
another method, it wouldn't be simple to write a script to handle it.  If you 
really need to you can write a dynamic link library that the final NSIS 
installer will make calls to.

If you need any more help on this subject, email me directly... Although I try 
to keep an eye on python-list, I can't guarantee a quick reply.



 Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:26:25 +0200
 Subject: Creating a Windows installer for Python + a set of dependencies
 From: g.rod...@gmail.com
 To: python-list@python.org
 
 Hi all,
 I need to create an installer for Windows which should be able to
 install a specific version of the Python interpreter (2.7) plus a set
 a dependencies such as ipython, numpy, pandas, etc.
 Basically this is the same thing Active State did for their Active
 Python distribution: a single bundle including interpreter + deps.
 Not being a Windows user I'm not sure where to start with this except
 maybe looking into NSIS (could that be of any help?).
 
 Thanks in advance,
 
 --- Giampaolo
 http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/
 http://code.google.com/p/psutil/
 http://code.google.com/p/pysendfile/
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RE: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack

2012-05-09 Thread Adrian Hunt 

Hi,

I'm not big Python user but like to keep a eye on this mailing list as there 
are a few subjects that can be applied to other languages and just for general 
interest (Yes, I'm a geek!!! lol)

This message thread has really shocked me: I've been a programmer for some 
thirty years and yes in the past I've had code/intellectual property stolen 
mainly by corporate bodies (well more like little upstart twats that cannot 
come up with ideas for themselves, acting in the name of a company.) I've never 
been able to do anything about it, proving that code and/or an idea has been 
stolen is not a simple thing to do... But surely in this case, as the project 
is so visibly the intellectual property of Luke that Risinger and his sheep are 
standing on the edge of a very large and loose cliff!

 To: python-list@python.org
 From: tjre...@udel.edu
 Subject: Re: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack
 Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:35:22 -0400
 
 On 5/8/2012 5:47 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
 
   From what others have posted, it has a new code repository (that being
  the ostensible reason for the fork), project site, and mailing list --
  the latter two incompetently. Apparently, the only thing he has kept are
  the domain and project names (the latter for sure not legitimately).
 
 Update: the pyjs.org group (or member thereof) has registered pyjs as a 
 new project name on pypi and released pyjames0.8.1 as pyjs0.8.1. So they 
 seem not to be claiming the name 'pyjames', at least not on pypi.
 
 -- 
 Terry Jan Reedy
 
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RE: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack

2012-05-09 Thread Adrian Hunt 


Hi ya,

Not to be confrontative but just because a project is open-source, it doesn't 
mean IP is open too!! The original idea is still property of the originator... 
It just has the global community adding their own IP and fixes.  This is a core 
of corporate contracts ensuring that a developers IP become freely usable by 
the company they work for at the time, but their IP is still their IP.

In the UK at least, a developers IP cannot be hijacked by a company contract. 
If you write some code while working for X, then X has free usage of that IP 
and may restrict you from using the same IP for company Y, but only for a 
limited time (ie 5 years)… The IP you came up with is still yours and a 
contract that claims your IP can (and has been in a court of law) judged to be 
null and void.

The problem is proving it!!!  


 From: jeanpierr...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 15:00:11 -0400
 Subject: Re: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack
 To: lamial...@cleverpun.com
 CC: python-list@python.org
 
 On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Temia Eszteri lamial...@cleverpun.com wrote:
  And you know what? Leighton was right to threaten legal action. What
  you did was not only in violation of his IP, but also multiple data
  theft laws.
 
 As far as copyright goes, it was open source, so he's allowed to
 continue making modifications. I don't think Luke had any patents.
 
 There might be something with stealing the name PyJS (which was,
 AFAIK, used as a synonym for PyJamas) -- apparently common law
 trademark is a thing. Otherwise...
 
 The domain was apparently not directly owned by Luke (but pointed to a
 server luke administered), and its transfer was apparently consensual.
 
 It seems like nearly every evil thing the hijacker did is legally
 permissible. The one other thing was the way he created the new
 mailing list might not have been legal, apparently. (See
 http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-May/1291804.html ).
 
 -- Devin
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RE: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack

2012-05-09 Thread Adrian Hunt 

Hi Ian,

Well there you have me... You release code under a license, you bound by it 
even if later you think better of it...  Seller be ware!!

 From: ian.g.ke...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:59:00 -0600
 Subject: Re: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack
 To: cybor...@hotmail.com
 
 On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Adrian Hunt cybor...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
  Hi ya,
 
  Not to be confrontative but just because a project is open-source, it
  doesn't mean IP is open too!! The original idea is still property of the
  originator... It just has the global community adding their own IP and
  fixes.  This is a core of corporate contracts ensuring that a developers IP
  become freely usable by the company they work for at the time, but their IP
  is still their IP.
 
 Luke Leighton was not the originator of the project.  James Tauber
 was, and his original code was a port of Google Web Toolkit.  Even if
 Luke could somehow be considered the owner of the project, it was
 released under the Apache License, which includes a /perpetual/,
 worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, /irrevocable/
 copyright license to reproduce, /prepare Derivative Works of/,
 publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute the
 Work and such Derivative Works.  I don't agree with what Anthony has
 done, but I don't see how it violates the license in any way or how
 Luke has any possible recourse through IP claims.
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RE: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack

2012-05-09 Thread Adrian Hunt 

Hi there Mark

There has been a few that I know of  but going back quite a long time... Soon 
after I got my qualifications, a small company called Merlio, not only did the 
court case get passed in UK courts by it went to the European court too... I 
wasn't directly involved but I know the EU court upheld the decision of the UK 
courts.  Still there are was little to no enforcement of what they decided!!!

Any how IP IS the IP of the developer... Proving it and enforcing it is another 
matter!!



 To: python-list@python.org
 From: breamore...@yahoo.co.uk
 Subject: Re: Open Source: you're doing it wrong - the Pyjamas hijack
 Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 23:44:01 +0100
 
 On 09/05/2012 23:30, Adrian Hunt wrote:
 
  In the UK at least, a developers IP cannot be hijacked by a company 
  contract. If you write some code while working for X, then X has free usage 
  of that IP and may restrict you from using the same IP for company Y, but 
  only for a limited time (ie 5 years)… The IP you came up with is still 
  yours and a contract that claims your IP can (and has been in a court of 
  law) judged to be null and void.
 
 
 References please, as this is completely opposite to my understanding.
 
 -- 
 Cheers.
 
 Mark Lawrence.
 
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RE: string interpolation for python

2012-03-31 Thread Adrian Hunt 

Hi Yingjie,

Consider this snippet of safe code:

| enc = bobsencryption.Encoder('Some secret key')
|
| username = raw_input('Enter your username:')
| password = raw_input('Enter your password:')
|
| print
| print username + ', please wait while we dial-up and log you in...'
|
| connection = server.dialup(00441635074745)
| connection.send('login ' + enc([username, password]))

Code like this could already be out there and safe-ish (well, if
they've included a little validation and error-checking.) Now consider
that your $formatting$ is added and the company upgrades Python,
resulting in the following:

| Enter your username: $enc.key$
| Enter your password: dontneedone
|
| Some secret key, please wait while we dial-up and log you in...

It could break old code... okay you may say you should’nt allow 
certain characters but if they're printable and used in a controlled
environment those characters can dramatically increase the security
of a username and password.



Adrian
  
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