Re: Basic python understanding

[D'Arcy Cain]

On 07/27/2017 09:59 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:

If they have only ever used a single language, that may be a warning
sign.


Or if they list every language that they have ever smelled.

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Re: Basic python understanding

[D'Arcy Cain]

On 07/27/2017 09:34 AM, Rhodri James wrote:

On 27/07/17 13:24, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
Lesson: Look for programmers, not Python (or Perl or C or C++ or Java 
or...) programmers.


This isn't universally true, I'm afraid.  A friend of mine who is a very 
good C/assembler programmer simply cannot get his head around Python's 
mindset.  If you want bullet-proof Flash programming code, he's your 
man.  If you want Python-based unit tests for it, don't ask him.


As I said, look for programmers, not  programmers.

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Re: Basic python understanding

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-07-27, Gregory Ewing  wrote:

> I'd like to add that what you should really be looking for is not a
> Python programmer as such, but simply a good, competent programmer.
>
> Any decent programmer will be able to quickly pick up what they need
> to know about Python on the job.

In a matter of a week or two if they're at all competent.

Even if they don't know Python, if they know _variety_ of other
languages (scheme/lisp, Smalltalk, Java, C, FORTRAN, assembly) they'll
be able to pick up Python quickly.

If they have only ever used a single language, that may be a warning
sign.

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Re: Basic python understanding

[Rhodri James]

On 27/07/17 13:24, D'Arcy Cain wrote:

On 07/27/2017 02:31 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:

I'd like to add that what you should really be looking for is
not a Python programmer as such, but simply a good, competent
programmer.

Any decent programmer will be able to quickly pick up what
they need to know about Python on the job. If they can't,
then they're not good enough, and you shouldn't hire them.


I'll second that.  I once had to build a team of Python developers for a 
major project.  The pool of actual Python programmers was small so we 
just advertised for programmers.  In the interviews we used a test that 
used C to determine their problem solving skills.  We also looked for 
new grads so that they didn't have to un-learn a bunch of stuff.  We 
wound up with an amazing team that managed to build the project in 
record time.


Lesson: Look for programmers, not Python (or Perl or C or C++ or Java 
or...) programmers.


This isn't universally true, I'm afraid.  A friend of mine who is a very 
good C/assembler programmer simply cannot get his head around Python's 
mindset.  If you want bullet-proof Flash programming code, he's your 
man.  If you want Python-based unit tests for it, don't ask him.


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Re: Basic python understanding

[D'Arcy Cain]

On 07/27/2017 02:31 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:

I'd like to add that what you should really be looking for is
not a Python programmer as such, but simply a good, competent
programmer.

Any decent programmer will be able to quickly pick up what
they need to know about Python on the job. If they can't,
then they're not good enough, and you shouldn't hire them.


I'll second that.  I once had to build a team of Python developers for a 
major project.  The pool of actual Python programmers was small so we 
just advertised for programmers.  In the interviews we used a test that 
used C to determine their problem solving skills.  We also looked for 
new grads so that they didn't have to un-learn a bunch of stuff.  We 
wound up with an amazing team that managed to build the project in 
record time.


Lesson: Look for programmers, not Python (or Perl or C or C++ or Java 
or...) programmers.


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Re: Basic python understanding

[Gregory Ewing]

I'd like to add that what you should really be looking for is
not a Python programmer as such, but simply a good, competent
programmer.

Any decent programmer will be able to quickly pick up what
they need to know about Python on the job. If they can't,
then they're not good enough, and you shouldn't hire them.

The same goes for any of the other technology buzzwords on
your list.

Jeremiah Dodds wrote:

it's worth
mentioning that it can be very hard to gauge experience past the basics
if you don't have it yourself.


More than that, I'd say it's impossible. So I second the
recommendation to involve one of your existing experienced
programmers in the interviewing. It will be difficult even
for them to judge the candidate's competence, but at least
they'll have a chance.

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Re: Basic python understanding

[Jeremiah Dodds]

monica.sn...@gmail.com writes:

> What would be some questions and answers so I gain a strong
> understanding of my candidate that has Python experience?

In addition to the resources others have pointed you at, it's worth
mentioning that it can be very hard to gauge experience past the basics
if you don't have it yourself.

If you currently have python developers at your company, it's worth
considering having one of them sit in on the interview or review the
candidate with you -- you'll be able to get a more accurate read on the
experience level of the candidate, and I'd imagine it'd be a help at
getting familiar with the types of things that you can be looking for
that indicate a good hire.



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Re: Basic python understanding

[Rick Johnson]

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 3:45:35 PM UTC-5, MRAB wrote:
> On 2017-07-26 20:04, Stefan Ram wrote:
> > monica.sn...@gmail.com writes:
> > > Hi  I am in need some understanding on how to become more
> > > knowledgeable while interviewing a candidate that
> > > requires Python
> > 
> > The only noun preceding "that" is "candidate". So, are you
> > using "that" to refer to the candidate?
> > 
> The word "that" is being used here as a relative pronoun.
> It's not wrong, although when referring to people it would
> be more common to use the word "who".  (It's not strictly
> true that it's the _candidate_ who requires Python; it's
> the _company_ that has the requirement for the candidate to
> know Python.)

I don't think it is appropriate for us to criticize
someone's sentence structure who is: (1) not a prolific
contributor here, (2) not a spammer or troll, or (3) is
politely asking for help. Any one of these excuses are
acceptable _if_ the OP does not make a habit of composing
these clumsy inquiries.

Obviously, the sentence could have been structured more
wisely, but perhaps the OP was in a hurry; or nervous; or
perhaps her first language is not English. Of course, there
is another scenario which can cause an otherwise competent
communicator to sound as though they have a weak grasp of
the english language, and that scenario is when too much
mental effort is focused on the mechanical process of
typing a message. For instance:

"I try to ask good question, but i spend so much time
thinking about fingers, that forsake sentence structure, i
do"

So if we are to criticize, we should at least offer
benevolent solutions. Eh?

"I am in need some understanding on how to become more
knowledgeable while interviewing a candidate that requires
Python"

Yes. There are some flaws here. One of the most glaring is
the impracticality of an interviewer "becoming more
knowledgable while interviewing"[1]. The other, as Stefan
pointed out, is the use of "that" as a pronoun. And while i
dare not hazard a guess as to the impetus of the
"impracticality element", i believe the word "that" was not
meant as a pronoun (aka: the interviewee), but was a
reference to the "interview process" itself.

In any event, if Monica would be so kind as to allow me to
paraphrase her intent[2], i would like to offer this slightly
improved version, of which, i am rather fond.

Hi everyone. 

I'm currently employed in the HR department of my firm, and,
when i'm not making coffee for the execs, one of my job
duties require that i screen applicants. Specifically, I
have been asked to weed-out unqualified applicants before
they move onto the "official interview" with my superiors,
who, unsurprisingly enough, have absolutely no patience for
unqualified bozos.

But i digress...

Only problem is, my knowledge in the specific prerequisites
of: Python, Node, Java, Javascript, Ruby, MVC (Model-view-
controller) Frameworks, -- ಠ_ಠ -- Object Modeling, Database
Systems, Java-Swing and/or GWT -- *DEEP BREATH* -- is
severly lacking.

So my question is: Are there any resources that you can
recommend for which i can become qualified enough to accept
or deny these prospects?

Well, Monica, the answer to your question *IS* a question: 

How "qualified" do you want to be?

If you think you can watch one or two five minute YouTube
vids and adsorb enough knowledge to become qualified to make
these difficult technical judgments, then, i would say you,
and more disturbingly your superiors, grossly underestimate
the depth of knowledge required here. If i were to hazard
guess, i would say that by entrusting a non-technical
person to screen the applications of highly technical
persons, your superiors either (1) really don't want to hire
anyone, or (2) want to pressure you into quitting.

PS: I do apologize if my frank style of speaking is
offensive to you. Please understand that i mean no offense.
And although i doubt that a neophyte can master these
subjects in a timely manner, i am in no way suggesting that
you could not master them if you truly wanted to. 


[1] Which is like OJT on steroids!

[2] And don't you worry Monica[3], i'm a _professional_ impersonator. O;-)

[3] You gorgeous devil, you.
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Re: Basic python understanding

[MRAB]

On 2017-07-26 20:04, Stefan Ram wrote:

monica.sn...@gmail.com writes:

Hi  I am in need some understanding on how to become more
knowledgeable while interviewing a candidate that requires
Python


   The only noun preceding "that" is "candidate". So, are you
   using "that" to refer to the candidate?

The word "that" is being used here as a relative pronoun. It's not 
wrong, although when referring to people it would be more common to use 
the word "who".


(It's not strictly true that it's the _candidate_ who requires Python; 
it's the _company_ that has the requirement for the candidate to know 
Python.)


[snip]
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Re: Basic python understanding

[Adam M]

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 11:06:19 AM UTC-4, Monica Snow wrote:
> Hi  I am in need some understanding on how to become more knowledgeable while 
> interviewing a candidate that requires Python and other (see below) 
> experience for a position with Mass Mutual as Developer, Systems Design 
> Engineer, Web Engineer Director, Web Engineer Consultant, and Full Stack 
> Developer.  
> 
> What would be some questions and answers so I gain a strong understanding of 
> my candidate that has Python experience? 
> 
> I preform the initial screen about 30 mins then pass them along to the hiring 
> manager.  I want to be able to communicate on a more technical level and show 
> appreciation for his/her skill set.
> 
> Other requirements:  Node, java, javascript, ruby, MVC 
> (Model-view-controller) frameworks, object modeling, database systems, 
> jave-Swing and/or GWT 
> 
> Much respect,
> 
> Monica
> 941-212-9085

You can try these websites:
https://www.toptal.com/python/interview-questions
https://devskiller.com/screen-python-developers-skills-find-best-guide-recruitment/
Regards
Adam M.
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Re: Basic python understanding

[jladasky]

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 8:06:19 AM UTC-7, Monica Snow wrote:
> Hi  I am in need some understanding on how to become more knowledgeable while 
> interviewing a candidate that requires Python and other (see below) 
> experience...

I just want to jump in to say thank you, Ms. Snow, for making an effort that 
far too few people in recruiting and HR seem to make.  I hope that your 
preparations lead to good candidates for the job.

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Re: Basic python understanding

[Peter Otten]

monica.sn...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi  I am in need some understanding on how to become more knowledgeable
> while interviewing a candidate that requires Python and other (see below)
> experience for a position with Mass Mutual as Developer, Systems Design
> Engineer, Web Engineer Director, Web Engineer Consultant, and Full Stack
> Developer.
> 
> What would be some questions and answers so I gain a strong understanding
> of my candidate that has Python experience?

A short but instructive video tutorial:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uio1J2PKzLI

> I preform the initial screen about 30 mins then pass them along to the
> hiring manager.  I want to be able to communicate on a more technical
> level and show appreciation for his/her skill set.
> 
> Other requirements:  Node, java, javascript, ruby, MVC
> (Model-view-controller) frameworks, object modeling, database systems,
> jave-Swing and/or GWT

https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/rooter.pdf

covers that and more.


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Basic python understanding

[monica . snow1]

Hi  I am in need some understanding on how to become more knowledgeable while 
interviewing a candidate that requires Python and other (see below) experience 
for a position with Mass Mutual as Developer, Systems Design Engineer, Web 
Engineer Director, Web Engineer Consultant, and Full Stack Developer.  

What would be some questions and answers so I gain a strong understanding of my 
candidate that has Python experience? 

I preform the initial screen about 30 mins then pass them along to the hiring 
manager.  I want to be able to communicate on a more technical level and show 
appreciation for his/her skill set.

Other requirements:  Node, java, javascript, ruby, MVC (Model-view-controller) 
frameworks, object modeling, database systems, jave-Swing and/or GWT 

Much respect,

Monica
941-212-9085
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