Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
In article c52c1114-647a-4887-926b-8856c939f...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 18, 1:28=A0am, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Rick Johnson If I were to [sum my tax burden], it would probably come to around 30%, which still doesn't bother me, in part because I know that it comes back to benefit the society I live in, and by extension me, in one way or another.. But do you think you'll get a higher return for your investment? Is it possible to get a higher return on your investment in this type of system? NO! You better off just paying for your own damn healthcare. Well actually, there is a way to get a higher return by taking more than your fair share. Any intelligent person would realize that public healthcare is advocated by degenerates or the bleeding heart degenerate eugenics supporters. Fine, YOU want to subsidize degeneracy? Then give to charity. The more you give the better you'll feel. BTW: How much money do you give to charity? This is technically wrong. It is much cheaper for you to pay a few euro's to combat TBC, then live in a TBC-infected society where you must take great care not to be infected yourself. Paying to rid the society of TBC is not charity, it is is common sense. Your ideas only work for the anti-social few, in an otherwise social society. Education is another case in point. It is in you best interest to allow a getto-genius into Harvard. Otherwise they will become the master-minds of crime. And you will be too stupid to beat them. Groetjes Albert -- -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spearc.xs4all.nl =n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
In article 40af8461-1583-4496-9d81-d52d6905d...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Because the Jews allowed themselves to be subjected. Sad, but true. Actually Jew stands for (relative) coward. Let me explain. Jew comes from Juda, one of the 12 tribes. At some time Israel was subjected and 11 tribes resisted to the death and are eradicated since. Only the Juda tribe gave in and their land was called Judea since. (So the name Israel for the current state is a propagandistic lie, to claim the land once occupied by the 12 tribes.) I don't blame them for the attitude of live to fight another day or even for plain survival. If the Jews hadn't allow themselves to be subjected, there would be no Jews. Slaves only exist because they allow themselves to exist. When people Never been a slave, were you? Try to imagine what it is to be born a slave. Freedmmm! Live free, or die! From my cold dead hand! Over my dead body! Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. Black Panther comes to mind. The USA just killed them. Groetjes Albert -- -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spearc.xs4all.nl =n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 26, 6:44 am, Albert van der Horst alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote: I don't blame them for the attitude of live to fight another day or even for plain survival. If the Jews hadn't allow themselves to be subjected, there would be no Jews. And may i borrow your time machine now that you are finished researching what may have happened to the Jews had they adopted the live free or die mentality? I always wondered what it would feel like to be god. Slaves only exist because they allow themselves to exist. When people Never been a slave, were you? Try to imagine what it is to be born a slave. Don't try to cast me as siding with the slave-master. I detest them as much as anyone. But my point is still valid; empower the people and subjection is a thing of the past. Bullying is a microcosm of slavery. You could take two distinct defensive methods to fighting bullies: 1. you could fight each bully on a case by case bases. 2. you could empower people to fight bullies as a united group. Method one will always fail. Sure, you may defeat the bully that exists today, but tomorrow a new bully will be born. Whereas method 2 will always prevail. Bullies need to exist in the shadows, behind a veil of secrecy and fear. Remove the veil and they will be exposed. Adopt a public policy that bullying will NOT be allowed and the perp WILL be punished, and bulling disappears forever. History has shown that mob behavior can be both detrimentally sadistic AND masochistic. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: 1. you could fight each bully on a case by case bases. 2. you could empower people to fight bullies as a united group. Adopt a public policy that bullying will NOT be allowed and the perp WILL be punished, and bulling disappears forever. Hmm, I wonder how you go about adopting that policy... oh! I know! By fighting each bully on a case-by-case basis! Funny though, you just said that won't work. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 26, 2:50 pm, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm, I wonder how you go about adopting that policy... oh! I know! By fighting each bully on a case-by-case basis! Funny though, you just said that won't work. It's a two-pronged solution Chris. Compound. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 2/18/2012 2:28 AM, Ian Kelly wrote: Here's a neat table: government spending as a percentage of GDP, by country. http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2008/03/government-spending-as-percentage-of.html The table is for national government spending. That means spending by the national government. The US has a lot of spending by state, county, city, school, and special districts that is not included. Total government spending in the US is about 40% of measured GDP. I *suspect* that the US has a higher percentage of non-national government spending than most other countries. For instance, government education spending is about 6% of GDP and that is mostly non-national here but, I believe, more national in some other countries. There are also issues with the denominator. In the US, if someone works at home without pay other than from a spouse, the value of the work is *not* included in GDP. If the same person goes to work elsewhere and hires someone to do the the same work around the home, that same work *is* counted. So the movement of house-spouses into the paid workforce has artificially inflated US GDP relative to, say, 50 years ago. There are also issues of measuring and including the unofficial, off-government books, 'underground' economy. That is relatively larger in many countries than in the US. I have the strong impression that the US IRS is much more diligent about ferreting out taxable income than the equivalent in many other countries. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 18, 1:28 am, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Rick Johnson If I were to [sum my tax burden], it would probably come to around 30%, which still doesn't bother me, in part because I know that it comes back to benefit the society I live in, and by extension me, in one way or another.. But do you think you'll get a higher return for your investment? Is it possible to get a higher return on your investment in this type of system? NO! You better off just paying for your own damn healthcare. Well actually, there is a way to get a higher return by taking more than your fair share. Any intelligent person would realize that public healthcare is advocated by degenerates or the bleeding heart degenerate eugenics supporters. Fine, YOU want to subsidize degeneracy? Then give to charity. The more you give the better you'll feel. BTW: How much money do you give to charity? Also, you mentioned Mitt paying 4 million dollars in taxes; that's more tax than you'll pay in a lifetime! I guess you never purchase ANYTHING or live under the tyranny of local jurisdictions ON TOP of the federal jurisdiction? Paying taxes to fund public schools, police departments, fire departments, and road maintenance is tyranny? Read my comments and you will know that i support LIMITED infrastructure. Enough with the spin! Here is a list of taxes most everyone else will encounter: This list is awesome. I love how you include inflation and fines imposed for breaking the law as taxes. Do you think that ALL traffic tickets are based on reality? You don't think traffic cops are forced to meet ticket quotas? You don't believe that some people are wrongly accused? You don't think some police abuse their power? Have you heard of the many cases of death row inmates being proven innocent by DNA evidence? You are a FOOL to believe the justice system is perfect! Also how you state that most everyone will have to pay taxes for fishing licenses, hunting licenses, CDL licenses, and even corporate income. Maybe you live in Amish country, but I have driven on many US highways and i know for a fact that there are many, MANY, large trucks. All those truck drivers require a CDL license. Maybe you just ignore the people you consider to be beneath you? Marriage license tax? Yeah, I remember paying that fee. Once. I believe it was somewhere around $50. And why do we need the state involved in our love lives? And cigarette tax? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that one mostly paid by those degenerates you keep whining about, the ones who aren't pulling their own weight? I hope you can understand that I find it a bit ironic that you're now complaining about cigarette tax. It IS a tax nonetheless. Of course the sales pitch for cigarette tax is that the profit will help offset the medical expenses of cancers due to smoking, BUT, do you REALLY believe all that money is going towards healthcare. HA! That's just more money in some politicians pocket! Actually i think 10% income tax is a fair amount although i believe taxing income silly. If the government cannot provide national security, domestic security, and LIMITED infratructure on 10% of what we make, they are wasting too much of OUR money. Here's a neat table: government spending as a percentage of GDP, by country. Don't trust polls. Heck, some polls even show Python rising in popularity! People, THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH! Every product that is made and every service rendered was a result of someone's hard labor. Sleep on that you degenerates! No shit. I pay those taxes too, you know. I have no delusions about where the money comes from. Great. Thanks for being a productive member of society. But why do you support measures that will increase your tax burden? You'll never get back what you put in unless you're a degenerate. Also, you are empowering the government with more money. They can't even manage the money they have now! Has history taught you NOTHING! How many revolutions is it going to take? How many billions of lives is is going to take? When are you going to realize that taxation is tyranny? When are you going to realize that degenerates deserve what they get? I fail to see any connection whatsoever. Animal lovers who only care about mammals are stealing money from taxpayers? Public healthcare is YOU robbing someone else so YOU can get a service that you don't deserve! That's the hypocrisy! Yes, I am so selfish and immoral that I believe everybody should have access to health care. Instead I should be more like you, and label people who can't afford their own health care as degenerates, I NEVER labeled people who can't afford healthcare degenerates. Enough with the spin cycle already. Because of people like YOU, we don't deserve the right to evolve! What does that even mean? Evolution is a natural process. Not for long my friend. By wielding eugenics, even debutante
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 18/02/2012 15:02, Rick Johnson wrote: But do you think you'll get a higher return for your investment? Is it possible to get a higher return on your investment in this type of system? NO! You better off just paying for your own damn healthcare. I guess you'd better get wikipedia to correct its incorrect data then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States Specifically. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 18, 10:15 am, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On 18/02/2012 15:02, Rick Johnson wrote: But do you think you'll get a higher return for your investment? Is it possible to get a higher return on your investment in this type of system? NO! You better off just paying for your own damn healthcare. I guess you'd better get wikipedia to correct its incorrect data then. Sure. I'll do that as soon as you show me mathematical evidence of how N people put X dollars each into a pot and then the same N people pull out MORE than X dollars each. If you can create a proof that creates money from nothing then we may find ourselves in the 1% tomorrow! Louie-the-loose-screw Said: I'll give you $15 if you'll give me $15! Okay Louie, but what is the point of that exercise besides money laundering? X + 0 = 0 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 18, 12:34 pm, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Louie-the-loose-screw Said: I'll give you $15 if you'll give me $15! $15 dolla too beau coup! 5 dolla each! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
They also don't need to put up with people who aren't seriously ill - I don't know how long your private appointments are, but here in the UK a standard doctor's appointment is 5-10 minutes. If they decide you're actually ill they may extend that. Five to ten minutes? Is the doctor an a-hole or a machine? Can a doctor REALLY diagnose an illness in five to ten minutes? Are you joking? And if not, do you ACTUALLY want the experience to be synonymous with an assembly line? You don't fear misdiagnosis? I envy your bravery! Actually, I find that (5-10 minutes of doctor time) completely true even in America. The difference is that I spend 30-60minutes waiting to be called, then another 5min with a nurse for pre-doctor stuff (blood pressure, why I am there, etc), finally another 5 minutes with the nurse for any necessary post-doctor work (drawing blood, shots, etc.). My total doctor talking time is really 5-10 minutes. Of course, if I was sick in an unusual way then the doctor would see me for longer, but the average doctor tends to see the same couple dozen things over and over. This is true for every doctor I can remember, but YMMV. Ramit Ramit Prasad | JPMorgan Chase Investment Bank | Currencies Technology 712 Main Street | Houston, TX 77002 work phone: 713 - 216 - 5423 -- This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rick Johnson I make a middle-class income and do not feel that I am anywhere near being enslaved by my income taxes, which amount to less than 10% of my gross income after deductions and credits. Ten percent?!?! You pay less income tax by percentage than most rich folks, including Mitt Romney! I envy you since you must be one of the lucky folks who ONLY pay income tax. I guess you never purchase ANYTHING or live under the tyranny of local jurisdictions ON TOP of the federal jurisdiction? Here is a list of taxes most everyone else will encounter: Accounts Receivable Tax Building Permit Tax Capital Gains Tax CDL license Tax Cigarette Tax Corporate Income Tax Court Fines (indirect taxes) Deficit spending Dog License Tax Federal Income Tax Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA) Fishing License Tax Food License Tax Fuel permit tax Gasoline Tax Gift Tax Hunting License Tax Inflation Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money) Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax) IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Local Income Tax Luxury Taxes Marriage License Tax Medicare Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Septic Permit Tax Service Charge Taxes Social Security Tax Road Usage Taxes (Truckers) Sales Taxes Recreational Vehicle Tax Road Toll Booth Taxes School Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) Telephone federal excise tax Telephone federal universal service fee tax Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax Telephone state and local tax Telephone usage charge tax Toll Bridge Taxes Toll Tunnel Taxes Traffic Fines (indirect taxation) Trailer Registration Tax Utility Taxes Vehicle License Registration Tax Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft Registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers Compensation Tax ... and don't forget for declare those pennys on your eyes! Heck, there are poorer people than I who voluntarily donate that much to religious organizations on top of their taxes. Again, lucky you! MOST middle class people pay 30-50% of their income in taxes! Say what you want about the income tax system, but at least net income still basically increases monotonically. If you make more gross than me, chances are that you're going to make more net than me as well. So you support a flat tax system? A system where everybody pays the same percentage? Actually i think 10% income tax is a fair amount although i believe taxing income silly. If the government cannot provide national security, domestic security, and LIMITED infratructure on 10% of what we make, they are wasting too much of OUR money. HOWEVER, healthcare is not a concern of the greater society, but only the individual -- with the exception of contagious disease of course, which effects us all! I disagree, and here's why. Let's say I'm a billionaire, and I'm diagnosed with cancer. Do you think I can just round up a bunch of scientists and tell them Here's a billion dollars. Now go find a cure my cancer? Of course not, it doesn't work that way. If the necessary research hasn't already been done, then it's unlikely that it will be finished in the few years or months that I have before the cancer kills me, no matter how much of my own money I throw at it. I agree that keeping RD alive is very important for our collective advancement. I do not fear technology like some people. Futhermore, i don't have any problem funding RD for ANY of the sciences, beit medical or otherwise. But let me assure you, under a private healthcare system (psst: the kind where people pay they own way!) there will ALWAYS be enough people to keep RD alive. Besides, the degenerates are only seeking care for self induced heath issues. Real medical research is primarily driven by medical treatment. Yes, but that does not mean we should hand degenerates a meal ticket. -- if I as a wealthy private investor am going to invest in such a highly speculative and risky venture as drug research, I will be more willing to invest a large sum of money if the potential recipients (i.e. consumers) number in the hundreds of thousands, not just the few thousand who will be able to pay for the drug out of pocket. Likewise, much of the money the drug companies make off of sales goes back into research so that they can be ready with a newer, better drug by the time their patents expire. Distributing health care coverage expands the market for treatments and so allows the state of the art to advance faster. Yes, with socialized health care, some of our tax money goes into that pool, and a lot of that tax money just ends up as
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 13, 7:37 pm, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: # Py=3.0 py sum(earner.get_income(2012) for earner in earners2012) / len(earners2012) average_income Once you exceed that amount you are robbing your fellow man. How can you justify making more than your fair share UNLESS someone offers their work load to YOU? You can't. You are living in excess. And for those who think the average_income is too small, well then, it's time to implement population control! My equation looks something like this: # Brain = 0,1 brain Your contribution to society / Society's contribution to you This value should be able to exceed 1.0 across the board. In fact, if it doesn't, then as a society we're moving backward. Are we talking about money or deeds? If deeds then i agree, if money then i disagree. A society is NOT made better by contributing money. Who does the money go to? History has shown that money ends up being wasted, that money ends up being squandered, and that money ends up empowering tyranny! However A society IS improved when good deeds and good wills are injected by the individual. We should ALWAYS invest more good deeds and expect less. So in this case we should ALWAYS exceed 1.0. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Here is a list of taxes most everyone else will encounter: You forgot the Microsoft Tax and the Stupid Tax. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 18/02/2012 02:13, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Here is a list of taxes most everyone else will encounter: You forgot the Microsoft Tax and the Stupid Tax. ChrisA This is what I call a tax, some two miles from my home. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-17074716 -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rick Johnson I make a middle-class income and do not feel that I am anywhere near being enslaved by my income taxes, which amount to less than 10% of my gross income after deductions and credits. Ten percent?!?! You pay less income tax by percentage than most rich folks, including Mitt Romney! I envy you since you must be one of the lucky folks who ONLY pay income tax. Yes, I feel terribly sorry for Mitt Romney. I can't imagine what it must be like to earn $27 million and only be allowed to keep $23 million of it. Why, that's barely enough to buy a private island in Dubai! I think it says a lot about how far we've come as a nation, though, that somebody who's practically a slave to the IRS can be a front-runner to be elected President. The 10% figure included Medicare, but not Social Security or other taxes. That's because health care coverage (you know, what we've been talking about) is primarily funded by income tax, Medicare, and excise taxes on certain kinds of treatments. Most other taxes go to fund specific unrelated programs. If I were to add everything up, it would probably come to around 30%, which still doesn't bother me, in part because I know that it comes back to benefit the society I live in, and by extension me, in one way or another.. I guess you never purchase ANYTHING or live under the tyranny of local jurisdictions ON TOP of the federal jurisdiction? Paying taxes to fund public schools, police departments, fire departments, and road maintenance is tyranny? Here is a list of taxes most everyone else will encounter: This list is awesome. I love how you include inflation and fines imposed for breaking the law as taxes. Also how you state that most everyone will have to pay taxes for fishing licenses, hunting licenses, CDL licenses, and even corporate income. Marriage license tax? Yeah, I remember paying that fee. Once. I believe it was somewhere around $50. And cigarette tax? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that one mostly paid by those degenerates you keep whining about, the ones who aren't pulling their own weight? I hope you can understand that I find it a bit ironic that you're now complaining about cigarette tax. Say what you want about the income tax system, but at least net income still basically increases monotonically. If you make more gross than me, chances are that you're going to make more net than me as well. So you support a flat tax system? A system where everybody pays the same percentage? No, what makes you think that? The statement I made is true under either a flat tax or the progressive system we currently have. Actually i think 10% income tax is a fair amount although i believe taxing income silly. If the government cannot provide national security, domestic security, and LIMITED infratructure on 10% of what we make, they are wasting too much of OUR money. Here's a neat table: government spending as a percentage of GDP, by country. http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2008/03/government-spending-as-percentage-of.html In 2008, the United States spent 19.9% of its GDP in government spending (it's gone up a few percent since then). The only countries on the chart that spent less than 10% were Turkmenistan and Afghanistan. Draw your own conclusions. People, THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH! Every product that is made and every service rendered was a result of someone's hard labor. Sleep on that you degenerates! No shit. I pay those taxes too, you know. I have no delusions about where the money comes from. Hypocrisy! It's no different than the idiots who whine for the fair treatment of fluffy mammals but them declare chemical warfare on insects and reptiles. To them ONLY fluffy mammals deserve fair treatment because they are so cuddly (and cute BTW) PUKE!. I fail to see any connection whatsoever. Animal lovers who only care about mammals are stealing money from taxpayers? But you want to know the REAL reason? It's because mammals return love and reptiles and insects don't. It's because people are selfish. If another being will no reciprocate their love, then they murder that being with extreme prejudice, and not feel one bit guilty about it! Do you understand how backward you are? Do you understand how selfish and immoral you are? Do you understand how incredibly dense you are? Yes, I am so selfish and immoral that I believe everybody should have access to health care. Instead I should be more like you, and label people who can't afford their own health care as degenerates, and dismiss their health needs as being unimportant compared to my own completely selfless desire that none of my personal income be used to support the society that I live in and derive benefit from, without my full and specific consent. Because of
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: I have PROVEN that when people FIGHT back, they will NOT be subjects to tyranny; race has NOTHING to do with it. I gave one example in history where people would rather die than be subjected to tyranny, there are many more. GIVE ME FREEDOM FOR GIVE ME DEATH! The world is full of evil people who seek to force their fellow man into slavery. Those who refuse to fight for freedom will be victims, on the other hand, those who are willing to sacrifice ALL in the name of freedom will be free men. 300: Go now! Run along and tell your Xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves! Do it quickly, before we decide to make our wall just a little bit bigger. If you get all your history from Hollywood, then no wonder you are so badly misinformed. Braveheart and 300 are inspiring movies to be sure, but they are also highly fictionalized. In the real world, the execution of William Wallace actually succeeded in quelling the Scottish rebellion for a time -- when Robert the Bruce started it up again half a year later, his motives were entirely political in nature (he had murdered a rival in a church and been excommunicated; his options were to place himself on the throne or become a fugitive), not out of some noble sense of guilt or duty to Wallace or desire for freedom as depicted in the film. Your statement that the Africans brought to America allowed themselves to be enslaved is simply false. There were dozens of slave rebellions in the United States prior to the Civil War. Most of them failed and ended in the executions of the rebels. You won't see Hollywood making too many movies about those, which is probably why you don't know anything about them. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:26:36 -0800 (PST) Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: But WE are the fittest! Because we are INTELLIGENT! And the whales say: But WE are the fittest! Because we are BIG! And the rabbits say: But WE are the fittest! Because we are FERTILE! And the snakes say: But WE are the fittest! Because we are VENOMOUS! (Apologies to all animals mentioned for ascribing to them gratuitous capitalisation and exclamation marks.) Please read Darwin. He explicitly defined fittest, in the context of evolutionary science, to mean sufficiently well-adapted to immediate local conditions to be able to reproduce. There is nothing generalisable about this. Intelligence is only useful in human ecological niches; and if the world were underwater you would gladly swap it for gills. But I don't think you'll read Darwin, or any real science on the subject. You'll cling to your popular-science cartoon version of evolution because you need it to support your false, odious worldview, which finally emerges from the swamp: Why were Negros treated as slaves in the US? Because they allowed themselves to be subjected. Sad, but true. Why were Australian Aboriginals treated like animals? Because they allowed them selves to be subjected. Sad, but true. And the one I hinted at above. Because the Jews allowed themselves to be subjected. Sad, but true. You have just demonstrated that you are the worst kind of racist. Not only have you blamed the victim on a truly monstrous scale, you have assigned blame not to individuals, but to entire races. You are saying that something inherent in each race caused them to allow their own subjugation. Calling it sad does not get you off the hook. Your cover was always thin but now it's blown. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 14, 5:31 am, Duncan Booth duncan.bo...@invalid.invalid wrote: Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: BS! With free healthcare, those who would have allowed their immune system fight off the flu, now take off from work, visit a local clinic, and get pumped full of antibiotics so they can create a new strain of antibiotic resistant flu virus! Thanks free healthcare! Anyone who can write 'antibiotic resistant flu virus' as though they believe it really needs to read some elementary books about disease. Here's a clue: No flu viruses are treatable with antibiotics. In some cas es antibiotics may be useful for flu patients to treat secondary bacterial infections, but they are not effective against viruses. Duncan, your reading and comprehension skills are atrocious. Please re- read the paragraph you quoted, then spend some time comprehending it, then show me where i stated that antibiotics cure viral infections. psst: i NEVER said any such thing! Rick, your reading and comprehension skills are atrocious. Please re-read the paragraph you quoted, then spend some time comprehending it, then show me where I stated that you '''stated that antibiotics cure viral infections'''. I never said any such thing. -- Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 15 February 2012 09:47, Duncan Booth duncan.booth@invalid.invalid wrote: Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Perhaps it's a bit presumptuous of me but... It's tempting to react to his inflammatory posts, but after all Rick is a troll and experience shows that trolls are best left alone. Also, please spare a thought for all of us who have him in our killfiles. -- Arnaud -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
Arnaud Delobelle arno...@gmail.com wrote: On 15 February 2012 09:47, Duncan Booth duncan.booth@invalid.invalid wrote: Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Perhaps it's a bit presumptuous of me but... It's tempting to react to his inflammatory posts, but after all Rick is a troll and experience shows that trolls are best left alone. Also, please spare a thought for all of us who have him in our killfiles. Yes, sorry about that. Actually, I thought it was a bit weird that I saw ChrisA's comment but not the message he was commenting on until I went and looked for it. I read this group on a couple of machines and it looks like Rick's killfile entry had expired on the other but not this one. Next time I'm back on the other machine I'll try to remember to sort out the killfile. -- Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]]
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:04:34 +, Duncan Booth wrote: Actually, I thought it was a bit weird that I saw ChrisA's comment but not the message he was commenting on until I went and looked for it. I read this group on a couple of machines and it looks like Rick's killfile entry had expired on the other but not this one. Next time I'm back on the other machine I'll try to remember to sort out the killfile. Yes, I have this problem too. I'm reluctant to killfile people forever, call me a sucker if you like, but I'm willing to give people second chances (and apparently third and fourth and fifth chances). Methinks it's time for Monsieur Johnson to go back in the killfile. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 15, 2:56 am, John O'Hagan resea...@johnohagan.com wrote: You have just demonstrated that you are the worst kind of racist. Not only have you blamed the victim on a truly monstrous scale, you have assigned blame not to individuals, but to entire races. Your tabloid sensationalism is the worst i've seen. You'll jump at any chance to tag someone a racist, homophobic, sexist, or any other kind of hate group you can muster in a weak attempt to win an argument you cannot win by spewing ad hominem attacks. You cannot stay on subject because your argument is baseless and mine is the backed by truth. Just in case you have forgotten, here is the main point: degenerates are a drain on healthcare/society. Can you counter that argument with a fact and prove they are not? The only winning argument is that degenerates pay their own medical bills... but as you and i know, most degenerates DON'T pay their own medical bills. They expect US to pay them. You are saying that something inherent in each race caused them to allow their own subjugation. I have PROVEN that when people FIGHT back, they will NOT be subjects to tyranny; race has NOTHING to do with it. I gave one example in history where people would rather die than be subjected to tyranny, there are many more. GIVE ME FREEDOM FOR GIVE ME DEATH! The world is full of evil people who seek to force their fellow man into slavery. Those who refuse to fight for freedom will be victims, on the other hand, those who are willing to sacrifice ALL in the name of freedom will be free men. 300: Go now! Run along and tell your Xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves! Do it quickly, before we decide to make our wall just a little bit bigger. John, I have grown weary of educating you. Go back to your day job writing op-eds for the National Inquirer and News of the World; they love this vile sensationalist crap! Goodnight John boy. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 15/02/2012 15:04, Rick Johnson wrote: On Feb 15, 2:56 am, John O'Haganresea...@johnohagan.com wrote: John, I have grown weary of educating you. Go back to your day job writing op-eds for the National Inquirer and News of the World; they love this vile sensationalist crap! Goodnight John boy. The News of the Screws closed months ago. As you didn't answer my question from some days back I'll ask it agin. Please explain why previously healthy people get struck down with Common Fatigue Syndrome amongst other things. -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 15, 9:18 am, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: As you didn't answer my question from some days back I'll ask it agin. Please explain why previously healthy people get struck down with Common Fatigue Syndrome amongst other things. Why do you seek my counsel regarding medical ailments? Do you believe i have special knowledge in the field? But more importantly: how is your question germane to the destruction of healthcare and expansion of tyranny by the degenerates of society; or by those who support degeneracy by engaging in degenerate eugenics? Was your question meant as rhetorical? Or merely yet ANOTHER crude attempt to employ sophistry in hopes of coercing the less astute folks among us to hop in your clown car of delirium and head-off down ANOTHER path to that leads to logical fallacy? Stay on subject! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 15/02/2012 16:27, Rick Johnson wrote: On Feb 15, 9:18 am, Mark Lawrencebreamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: As you didn't answer my question from some days back I'll ask it agin. Please explain why previously healthy people get struck down with Common Fatigue Syndrome amongst other things. Why do you seek my counsel regarding medical ailments? Do you believe i have special knowledge in the field? But more importantly: how is your question germane to the destruction of healthcare and expansion of tyranny by the degenerates of society; or by those who support degeneracy by engaging in degenerate eugenics? Was your question meant as rhetorical? Or merely yet ANOTHER crude attempt to employ sophistry in hopes of coercing the less astute folks among us to hop in your clown car of delirium and head-off down ANOTHER path to that leads to logical fallacy? Stay on subject! I don't seek your counsel on anything. You set the ball rolling and I quote If you can't afford healthcare, then you die. and You want to solve the healthcare problem then STOP TREATING PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE! You later went on to say and I again quote Healthy people do not need healthcare very often, and in the rare cases when they do, they don't bog down the system because their bodies are strong. Why are their bodies strong? Because healthy people eat correctly, healthy people exercise, therefore, healthy people have correctly functioning immune systems -- of course quality genes always help! The question was originally put in response to that, so you've resorted to your usual tactics of spewing ad hominem attacks on anybody who dares to challenge you in any way, shape or form. If I were you I'd stick to things that you understand, like downloading workable help files. But oh dear, you can't even manage that, you simply moan like hell because the help file you had didn't work correctly. Or IDLE is crap. Or ... -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]]
Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:04:34 +, Duncan Booth wrote: Actually, I thought it was a bit weird that I saw ChrisA's comment but not the message he was commenting on until I went and looked for it. I read this group on a couple of machines and it looks like Rick's killfile entry had expired on the other but not this one. Next time I'm back on the other machine I'll try to remember to sort out the killfile. Yes, I have this problem too. I'm reluctant to killfile people forever, call me a sucker if you like, but I'm willing to give people second chances (and apparently third and fourth and fifth chances). Methinks it's time for Monsieur Johnson to go back in the killfile. Luckily for me there are enough folks that still reply to the trolls in my killfile that I can see if it's time to take them off or not. ;) (This one is a resounding NOT) ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 13:01:05 -0800 (PST) Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 13, 12:38 pm, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: I hate being suckered in by trolls, but this paragraph demands a response. Ditto... On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: You are born with rights. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare care is NOT a right, healthcare is a privileged. [...] HOWEVER, healthcare is not a concern of the greater society, but only the individual -- with the exception of contagious disease of course, [...snip half-baked, social-Darwinist, there-is-no-such-thing-as-society, naive U.S.-capitalist-libertarian drivel...] Procreation should be a privilege, however sadly for our collective evolution, it's seems to be a right :( There is a word for the philosophy that procreation should be a privilege reserved for those with good genes: eugenics. No, the word is evolution; which means: survival of the fittest. Don't try to hijack real science to bolster a repugnant ideology. Neither Herbert Spencer nor Darwin meant that phrase the way you do. [...snip egregious, self-serving display of ignorance on the subjects of evolution and genetics...] Welcome to fascism, Rick. Don't try to append me onto a specific ideology structure just because that group happens to support ONE of my beliefs. I carry no political [...blah blah...] It's called duck-typing. I somewhat optimistically implore you, Rick, to do some basic research on your chosen subjects. Failing that (almost certainly), here are three simple points which debunk your agenda (and that of the U.S. Republican Right): 1. Publicly-funded healthcare is both cheaper and more effective than privatised systems. It's also the right thing to do (i.e. you don't have to stand by while someone dies because their illness is their fault). Which makes it a win-win-win. 2. The recent economic problems were not triggered by degenerates (are you actually talking about homosexuals here, or just in the more general, McCathyist sense?), but in fact by the operations of the same unregulated markets you are advocating. 3. The central fallacy of social Darwinism is the misapprehension that because natural selection occurs in nature, human society _should_ also work this way. This is a failure to acknowledge the is/ought problem, and is usually compounded (Rick is no exception) by the equally mistaken view that there exist superior individuals whose possession of a quality gene-pool entitles them to survival - an entitlement that is encroached upon by inferior sorts who take up space by insisting on not dying. Can you guess in which group those who hold this view place themselves? In fact, a gene pool is held by a species, not an individual, and the maintenance of its diversity is essential for long term-survival. And to the great disappointment of those looking for a justification of dog-eat-dog, one of the main drivers of evolution is not competition, but adapting to new environments to _avoid_ competition. I'm told the Spanish have a saying which translates as dogs don't eat dogs. Genetics is complicated. Switching one gene on switches others off in unpredictable ways, people choose mates by unfathomable processes, good-looking geniuses have dumb, ugly children and vice-versa. This is why eugenics projects are doomed to failure. They are also morally wrong, which is another win-win. If some featureless fungus, toxic to all other living things, engulfed the globe, would that make it superior? Of course, not, it merely survived. Considerations of what _should_ happen, of superiority and quality, are human, social concerns. We are humans, so they are important to us. But they have nothing to do with genetics or evolution. Social Darwinism is merely a psuedo-scientific attempt to justify inequity and class divides. Furthermore, it is completely dead outside the U.S. - ironically the only developed nation where real Darwinism is still seriously questioned. [...] Go on believing that humans will be inhabiting this rock in the next 1000 years, or this universe in the next 10,000 -- because the enlightened few will have transcended into the mind hive and your @ $$ will be glued to Terra firma forever! Now that is some crazy shit! Maybe L. Ron _is_ still alive... Regards, John -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
(Sorry for top-posting this bit, but I think it's required before the rest of my response) At the risk of wading into this from a UK citizen's perspective: You're imagining a public healthcare system as if it were private. Imagine you go to a doctor and say I've got the flu, can you give me antibiotics. In a Private healthcare system: * The doctor gets paid for retaining a client. * He is incentivised to do what you request. ... so he gives you the antibiotics. In a Public healthcare system: * The doctor is paid no matter what. * His job is to stop the population becoming ill. * By reducing illnesses he reduces his workload, without reducing his wage ... so he'll only give you antibiotics if he feels you are at serious risk, and giving you antibiotics carries less risk for the population than the risk of the population getting immunities. Same goes for surgery etc. On Mon, 2012-02-13 at 08:01 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote: And just how much healthcare dollars are you entitled to exactly? Can you put your entitlement into some form of monetary value? And how can we ever make a system like this fair? If someone works for 30 years and pays a 30% tax rate and another works for 2 years and pays 15%, then how do we delegate the fair share? If your children are educated privately then should you still be paying taxes for education? If you work for/bank with a company that doesn't need to be bailed out, then should you still pay tax for that? If you never need benefits (welfare) then should your taxes be paying for that? you can use that same argument for everything that taxes pay for - the only logical conclusion of that argument is anarchy (i.e. no taxes, and no government). If you are an anarchist then that's a different argument all together (not saying it doesn't have intellectual validity). snip Healthcare is expensive. Do you want a minimum wage doctor curing your ills? And the frivolous lawsuits are not bringing the costs down either. It's so expensive because of the marketing, and because of all the middle-men. A public health system doesn't need to do that marketing. They also don't need to put up with people who aren't seriously ill - I don't know how long your private appointments are, but here in the UK a standard doctor's appointment is 5-10 minutes. If they decide you're actually ill they may extend that. - bosses win, because they have reduced absenteeism, lower training costs to replace workers who die, and fewer epidemics that threaten their own families BS! With free healthcare, those who would have allowed their immune system fight off the flu, now take off from work, visit a local clinic, and get pumped full of antibiotics so they can create a new strain of antibiotic resistant flu virus! Thanks free healthcare! See my comments at the top. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: BS! With free healthcare, those who would have allowed their immune system fight off the flu, now take off from work, visit a local clinic, and get pumped full of antibiotics so they can create a new strain of antibiotic resistant flu virus! Thanks free healthcare! Anyone who can write 'antibiotic resistant flu virus' as though they believe it really needs to read some elementary books about disease. Here's a clue: No flu viruses are treatable with antibiotics. In some cases antibiotics may be useful for flu patients to treat secondary bacterial infections, but they are not effective against viruses. -- Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Duncan Booth duncan.booth@invalid.invalid wrote: Here's a clue: No flu viruses are treatable with antibiotics. Oh my god we're too late! Now they're ALL resistant! -- Devin -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 13, 9:01 pm, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: And just how much healthcare dollars are you entitled to exactly? Can you put your entitlement into some form of monetary value? Rick hats off to you man -- you are damn good! Did you study at a top- troll-school? eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 14, 2:41 am, John O'Hagan resea...@johnohagan.com wrote: 1. Publicly-funded healthcare is both cheaper and more effective than privatised systems. It's also the right thing to do (i.e. you don't have to stand by while someone dies because their illness is their fault). So you have no problem paying the medical bills of people who overeat sugar, salt, and fat; refuse to put down the ho-ho's; and get a little exercise? If so, then give to charity. Why do you need to FORCE me (and others) to pay for your experiment of degenerate eugenics? 2. The recent economic problems were not triggered by degenerates (are you actually talking about homosexuals here, or just in the more general, McCathyist sense?) WTF does homosexuality have to do with this conversation? I am talking about lazy/slothful, drug/alcohol abusing, junk food eating, self- induced illiterates, techno-phobic Luddite loving lemmings. Look, i don't care how you want to live YOUR life, just leave me and my money the hell out of it! , but in fact by the operations of the same unregulated markets you are advocating. I am well aware of the sins of wall street and the ruling corporate class (Greed.inc). That is half the problem, yes. However, you cannot ignore the fact that we are spending trillions around the globe supporting degenerates. Look at Detroit MI. People like to blame GM for the state of the city but GM is only a very small part of the problem. The REAL problem is sleazy politicians and infections entitlements/welfare. When you crush the tax payers with more and more tyrannical taxation to pay for your entitlement programs, the taxpayers leave town; but the welfare recipients stay! Why the heck would they quit a good thing? However, now you find yourself in a major pickle. With the taxpayers gone, who's going to fund the entitlement programs? NOBODY! The whole house of cards comes crumbling down! Of course i'm probably just wasting my time trying to educate you. You'll just blab on and on about how evil i am for not paying other people's bills so they can watch there hero degenerates on Jersey Shore. 3. The central fallacy of social Darwinism is the misapprehension that because natural selection occurs in nature, human society _should_ also work this way. I NEVER said we should adopt such a society. That is anarchy. And anarchy will NEVER move us forward as a species. This is a failure to acknowledge the is/ought problem, and is usually compounded (Rick is no exception) by the equally mistaken view that there exist superior individuals whose possession of a quality gene-pool entitles them to survival - an entitlement that is encroached upon by inferior sorts who take up space by insisting on not dying. Can you guess in which group those who hold this view place themselves? You'd be surprised which group i reside in. I know my place; but do you know yours? Genetics is complicated. Switching one gene on switches others off in unpredictable ways, people choose mates by unfathomable processes, good-looking geniuses have dumb, ugly children and vice-versa. This is why eugenics projects are doomed to failure. They are also morally wrong, which is another win-win. There is nothing wrong with denying degenerates the right to reproduce. Would you allow a crack head to reproduce? How about someone who carries a virus/illness/deadly defect for which there is no cure and the virus/illness/deadly defect will be passed on to the child? What if you knew without a doubt the baby would be born with two heads, or mentally incapacitated, or brain dead, or etc...? Would you allow the procreation anyway simply because people have a right to be selfish? What if the couple was healthy but had poor parenting skills, or cannot feed the child, or cannot cloth the child, or etc...? Would you allow the procreation anyway simply because people have a right to be selfish? What abut people who go around making babies but refuse to care for them at all? I mean, birth control has been around for some time, but we can't force degenerates to use it! Would you allow the procreation anyway simply because people have a right to be selfish? If some featureless fungus, toxic to all other living things, engulfed the globe, would that make it superior? Of course, not, it merely survived. I love when people contradict themselves in the same sentence -- makes my job much easier! Considerations of what _should_ happen, of superiority and quality, are human, social concerns. We are humans, so they are important to us. But they have nothing to do with genetics or evolution. Really??? I think you need to spend more time ruminating on the subject. You can stick your head in the sand if you like, but technology will advance with or without you. Humans will be cloned. Humans will be genetically engineered. Humans will employ eugenics to sculpt the gene pool. It is our destiny to use our intelligence to drive our own evolution at an
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 14, 2:41 am, John O'Hagan resea...@johnohagan.com wrote: This is a failure to acknowledge the is/ought problem, and is usually compounded (Rick is no exception) by the equally mistaken view that there exist superior individuals whose possession of a quality gene-pool entitles them to survival - an entitlement that is encroached upon by inferior sorts who take up space by insisting on not dying. Can you guess in which group those who hold this view place themselves? You'd be surprised which group i reside in. I know my place; but do you know yours? If you truly believe that only the best should be allowed to survive and that you are not of the best, then the logical thing to do is to immediately destroy yourself. Oddly enough, though, I don't see many eugenics proponents committing mass suicide for the benefit of the gene pool. There is nothing wrong with denying degenerates the right to reproduce. Actually there is; I'm fairly sure that I wouldn't have been born if such policies had been in place, and I strongly suspect that you wouldn't have either. There was a country in the 20th century that adopted a lot of the sorts of policies you're talking about, and it's such a sensitive topic with MANY people that I'm not going to touch it. Suffice it to say that the world does not appreciate such things. If some featureless fungus, toxic to all other living things, engulfed the globe, would that make it superior? Of course, not, it merely survived. I love when people contradict themselves in the same sentence -- makes my job much easier! No, he did not contradict himself - he drew a distinction between superior and survived. You might argue that your definition of superior *is* the ability to survive, but that's a matter for logical argument, not for pointing and laughing. It is our destiny to use our intelligence to drive our own evolution at an ever accelerating rate. To NOT use that power would be to spit in the face of evolution itself! Evolution is driven by the survival of the fittest, not by us using our intelligence to influence it. It's high time I stood up for who I am. I *do* spit in the face of evolution. I do not believe that we came here because we evolved from some lesser life-form, and I do not believe that the world is best served by such philosophies. God created us, roughly 6000-1 years ago, and since then, many things have happened (both good and bad), but never has there been the emergence of any form of next-species human. Look at history (just recent history if you like - the last few hundred years) and find the times when one group of people deemed themselves more evolved than another group. Why were Negros treated as slaves in the US? Why were Australian Aboriginals treated like animals? And the one I hinted at above. If you truly believe that evolution is the way forward, then go find some of the lobbyists for these groups, and say to their faces that you believe that some humans are lesser than others. If you come out of that alive, report back. Preferably with video. It should be interesting. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 13, 10:41 am, Tim Wintle tim.win...@teamrubber.com wrote: Imagine you go to a doctor and say I've got the flu, can you give me antibiotics. In a Private healthcare system: * The doctor gets paid for retaining a client. * He is incentivised to do what you request. ... so he gives you the antibiotics. In a Public healthcare system: * The doctor is paid no matter what. * His job is to stop the population becoming ill. * By reducing illnesses he reduces his workload, without reducing his wage ... so he'll only give you antibiotics if he feels you are at serious risk, and giving you antibiotics carries less risk for the population than the risk of the population getting immunities. Of all the great arguments i have presented you choose the minor antibiotic comment and run with it? But you take NO position on supporting the degenerates of society? Would you mind making your position known? You see, you can have all the healthcare and healthcare dollars in the world. But if your patient keeps eating greasy hamburgers, salty/oily french fries, and blood-sugar spiking soda-pops, he is going to die a nasty death! Sadly however, he will live for many years in a state of poor heath before finally kicking the bucket. All the while draining the system of resources and money. [...] you can use that same argument for everything that taxes pay for - the only logical conclusion of that argument is anarchy (i.e. no taxes, and no government). If you are an anarchist then that's a different argument all together (not saying it doesn't have intellectual validity). I am not an anarchist. Stop trying to label me. Healthcare is expensive. Do you want a minimum wage doctor curing your ills? And the frivolous lawsuits are not bringing the costs down either. It's so expensive because of the marketing, and because of all the middle-men. You're thinking of pharmaceuticals NOT healthcare. And while marketing is a large expense for pharmaceutical companies; RD, lawsuits, and brown-nosing are the main cost of doing buisness. They also don't need to put up with people who aren't seriously ill - I don't know how long your private appointments are, but here in the UK a standard doctor's appointment is 5-10 minutes. If they decide you're actually ill they may extend that. Five to ten minutes? Is the doctor an a-hole or a machine? Can a doctor REALLY diagnose an illness in five to ten minutes? Are you joking? And if not, do you ACTUALLY want the experience to be synonymous with an assembly line? You don't fear misdiagnosis? I envy your bravery! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 14, 5:31 am, Duncan Booth duncan.bo...@invalid.invalid wrote: Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: BS! With free healthcare, those who would have allowed their immune system fight off the flu, now take off from work, visit a local clinic, and get pumped full of antibiotics so they can create a new strain of antibiotic resistant flu virus! Thanks free healthcare! Anyone who can write 'antibiotic resistant flu virus' as though they believe it really needs to read some elementary books about disease. Here's a clue: No flu viruses are treatable with antibiotics. In some cases antibiotics may be useful for flu patients to treat secondary bacterial infections, but they are not effective against viruses. Duncan, your reading and comprehension skills are atrocious. Please re- read the paragraph you quoted, then spend some time comprehending it, then show me where i stated that antibiotics cure viral infections. psst: i NEVER said any such thing! My point is: these quacks are prescribing antibiotics when people don't even need them! Such disregard for immunity is frightening. Penicillin was a gift from the gods, and we have squandered it! Thanks free healthcare! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: Duncan, your reading and comprehension skills are atrocious. Please re- read the paragraph you quoted, then spend some time comprehending it, then show me where i stated that antibiotics cure viral infections. psst: i NEVER said any such thing! I'm not sure how you'd go about creating a new strain of a virus that's resistant to antibiotics, unless the previous strain was NOT resistant. Viruses are _immune_ to antibiotics, and as we know from Angband, immunity equals resistance times ten. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 14, 6:44 pm, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: If you truly believe that only the best should be allowed to survive and that you are not of the best, then the logical thing to do is to immediately destroy yourself. Oddly enough, though, I don't see many eugenics proponents committing mass suicide for the benefit of the gene pool. I don't need to destroy myself Chris. Likewise i don't need to destroy anyone else. You are trying to cast me as an evil blood thirsty person, and i can assure you, i am not. All i need to do is NOT reproduce and i've done my part. Likewise all WE need to do is keep the rest of us from reproducing. I am not a degenerate, but my genes are flawed. All i can hope to do is make an intellectual contribution to our evolution as a species. Just because you're flawed in one area, does not mean you cannot make contributions in other areas. You can still be part of the whole -- AS LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR PLACE! There is nothing wrong with denying degenerates the right to reproduce. Actually there is; I'm fairly sure that I wouldn't have been born if such policies had been in place, and I strongly suspect that you wouldn't have either. So what's the problem with that? There was a country in the 20th century that adopted a lot of the sorts of policies you're talking about, and it's such a sensitive topic with MANY people that I'm not going to touch it. Suffice it to say that the world does not appreciate such things. Of course people don't want to admit that they don't belong, or that they are flawed, or that they are inferior. We are wired with egos so that we don't purposely destroy ourselves; which is vital to our collective evolution, but NOT our individual evolution. However, like all software, the definitions don't always cover the corner cases. Only WE, as intelligent beings, can compensate for the missing code in our own software. Evolution is just a system. A very dumb system. We are the only hope for evolution beyond what this base system can create. We must take the reigns and drive our own evolution. If some featureless fungus, toxic to all other living things, engulfed the globe, would that make it superior? Of course, not, it merely survived. I love when people contradict themselves in the same sentence -- makes my job much easier! No, he did not contradict himself - he drew a distinction between superior and survived. You might argue that your definition of superior *is* the ability to survive, but that's a matter for logical argument, not for pointing and laughing. If a fungus did in fact engulf the earth, THEN it MUST be superior! It is our destiny to use our intelligence to drive our own evolution at an ever accelerating rate. To NOT use that power would be to spit in the face of evolution itself! Evolution is driven by the survival of the fittest, not by us using our intelligence to influence it. But WE are the fittest! Because we are INTELLIGENT! God created us, roughly 6000-1 years ago, and since then, many things have happened (both good and bad), but never has there been the emergence of any form of next-species human. Look at history (just recent history if you like - the last few hundred years) and find the times when one group of people deemed themselves more evolved than another group. Why were Negros treated as slaves in the US? Because they allowed themselves to be subjected. Sad, but true. Why were Australian Aboriginals treated like animals? Because they allowed them selves to be subjected. Sad, but true. And the one I hinted at above. Because the Jews allowed themselves to be subjected. Sad, but true. Slaves only exist because they allow themselves to exist. When people fight back against tyranny, tyranny fails. When people subject themselves to tyranny, tyranny prospers. There have been many instances in history where people did not allow themselves to be subjected; William Wallace comes to mind. Freedmmm! Live free, or die! From my cold dead hand! Over my dead body! Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:48:54 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote: Do you think that cost of healthcare is the problem? Do you think the cost of healthcare insurance is the problem? NO! The problem is people expect entitlements. Entitlements? I work hard and pay my taxes. I *earned* that healthcare that trolls like you call an entitlement. Damn straight it's an entitlement -- I paid for it, I earned it, I'm entitled to it, and if you try to steal if from me, expect a fight. Socialised healthcare is a win-win system: - the working class wins, because they get healthcare at a much cheaper rate than they could otherwise afford - bosses win, because they have reduced absenteeism, lower training costs to replace workers who die, and fewer epidemics that threaten their own families - Wall Street wins, because productivity is increased due to better health - pharmaceutical companies win, because even though their profits on individual items are reduced, their increased sales more than make up for it - doctors win, because they spend more time getting paid to deal with patients and less unproductive time on dealing with insurance companies - the economy wins, because fewer people are bankrupted by simple medical procedures The only loss is for the insurers, who have to get an honest job. So why on earth is anyone against socialised healthcare when it provably works better than the US system? Simple. To a certain mind, win-win is not a good thing, it is a bad thing. Win-win implies that you might have to share the pie instead of eating it all yourself, and to that sort of person, anything less than ALL the pie might as well be nothing at all. What's the point of being wealthy and powerful without having hungry, sick peons to lord over? How will you know you have won unless others lose? The inefficiencies (economic and moral) of the US private healthcare system are not a bug, they are a feature. It is part of the war the 1% of the 1% have been waging on the rest of society for the last 40 years. You are only born with one guarantee; you will die, guaranteed! Any questions? Yes. Why haven't you moved to a libertarian paradise like Somalia yet? You'd like it there. There are two sorts of people: those who can afford their own private militia, and victims. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 13, 2:05 am, Steven D'Aprano steve +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:48:54 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote: Do you think that cost of healthcare is the problem? Do you think the cost of healthcare insurance is the problem? NO! The problem is people expect entitlements. Entitlements? I work hard and pay my taxes. I *earned* that healthcare that [gentlemen] like you call an entitlement. Damn straight it's an entitlement -- I paid for it, I earned it, I'm entitled to it, And just how much healthcare dollars are you entitled to exactly? Can you put your entitlement into some form of monetary value? And how can we ever make a system like this fair? If someone works for 30 years and pays a 30% tax rate and another works for 2 years and pays 15%, then how do we delegate the fair share? The answer is you can't delegate fairness in a system like this. The system of i pay taxes therfore i deserve a free heart transplant is broken! And don't forget, your tax dollars are not just for coving the cost of healthcare. What about infrastructure, social security, welfare, military, government bail-outs, bribe money to rouge states, earmarks, bridges to nowhere, and and even planting trees on the main highways? These things cost money you know! How about instead of enriching the government by increasing taxes YOU just live within your means? If you can afford healthcare, great! If not, too bad. and if you try to steal if from me, expect a fight. Steal what from you... you're stealing from everyone else! You're expecting ME to cover YOUR healthcare. What's next? I should supplement your income so you can you buy a summer home? What about folks who gorge on sugar, saturated fats, and salt all their lives with no regard for their own health? What happens when they develop diabetes, heart disease, and cancer? Do you think the measly little amount of taxes they payed (IF THEY PAYED AT ALL!) will cover a heart transplant or cancer treatments? Who will pay when they cannot? What about the idiots who smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, and/or abuse drugs (prescription or otherwise). Should your tax dollars cover these medical expenses? Who will pay when they cannot? What about people who are too lazy to cook their children healthy meals and instead rely on fast food and soda? What happens when those same kids become morbidly obese? Why are we not charging these idiots with child abuse? Who will pay when they cannot? *Selfish Sam blubbers:* I pay taxes, so the government needs to subsidize my unhealthy lifestyle! But where does the government money come from Sam? Sam: Taxes? Very good Sam, and WHO pays taxes? Sam: Citizens? You're very smart Sam. And what do think will happen when the government needs more money? Sam: They will increase taxes? Good boy Sam! Here is a treat. Now run along and fetch the newspaper. Taxes are tranny. And you WANT to give them an excuse to increase taxes! We are doomed! Socialised healthcare is a win-win system: Sure, for the degenerates! - the working class wins, because they get healthcare at a much cheaper rate than they could otherwise afford Healthcare is expensive. Do you want a minimum wage doctor curing your ills? And the frivolous lawsuits are not bringing the costs down either. - bosses win, because they have reduced absenteeism, lower training costs to replace workers who die, and fewer epidemics that threaten their own families BS! With free healthcare, those who would have allowed their immune system fight off the flu, now take off from work, visit a local clinic, and get pumped full of antibiotics so they can create a new strain of antibiotic resistant flu virus! Thanks free healthcare! - Wall Street wins, because productivity is increased due to better health Oh yes, and wall street is the hope of the future. Thank god they are winning. Thank god they are healthy enough to rob us for another day. Thank god! - pharmaceutical companies win, because even though their profits on individual items are reduced, their increased sales more than make up for it This is the same thing that happened to the funiture industry. They call it the Assembly Line. I don't know how you feel, but i think mass produced furniture sucks a big fat Python! - doctors win, because they spend more time getting paid to deal with patients and less unproductive time on dealing with insurance companies Doctors have minions for those tasks. Do you actually believe doctors are on the phone with insurance companies? They are at the freaking golf course! - the economy wins, because fewer people are bankrupted by simple medical procedures It sucks that medical can be so expensive, and i am all for reducing the costs. However, we cannot implement a system that rewards the slothful degenerates of society on the backs of the hard working. Evolution knows how to handle degenerates. The only loss is for the insurers, who have to get an honest job. So
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:01:59 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote: Evolution knows how to handle degenerates. And yet here you still are. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 13, 10:12 am, Steven D'Aprano steve +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:01:59 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote: Evolution knows how to handle degenerates. And yet here you still are. Embrace the perfection of evolution, and both our needs shall be met! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
I hate being suckered in by trolls, but this paragraph demands a response. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: You are born with rights. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare care is NOT a right, healthcare is a privileged. If you deprive a person of access to healthcare, and they die, then you have deprived them of life and thus violated the very rights that you just stated they had. In any case, taking that phrase from the Declaration of Independence and holding it out as an exhaustive list of rights is moronic. First, because it's not even a legal document -- it's only a statement of high-minded classical liberalism, albeit a historically important and influential one. Second, because it actually states We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that **AMONG** these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. The phrasing obviously implies that there are other human rights besides the three examples listed. After all, the purpose of the document was not to enumerate all human rights, but to air a list of grievances against King George and assert the right to revolt against him. Incidentally, not being required to pay taxes is not something that the founding fathers would have considered a human right, taxation being necessary to support government and representative government (at least according to the Declaration of Independence) being necessary to secure those rights. Procreation should be a privilege, however sadly for our collective evolution, it's seems to be a right :( There is a word for the philosophy that procreation should be a privilege reserved for those with good genes: eugenics. Welcome to fascism, Rick. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: ... Rights, that **AMONG** these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. AMONG our rights are such elements as Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Founding Fathers I'll come in again. (Does that drag this back on topic? Almost? Vain attempt to at least look like it's on topic?) ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 13, 12:38 pm, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: I hate being suckered in by trolls, but this paragraph demands a response. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: You are born with rights. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare care is NOT a right, healthcare is a privileged. If you deprive a person of access to healthcare, and they die, then you have deprived them of life and thus violated the very rights that you just stated they had. And finally the pursuit of happiness. Notice the wording here: pursuit. You have a right to PURSUE happiness, not a right to steal it. Also, you are guaranteed happiness, only the right to purse your version of happiness -- so long as that version does not interfere with others rights. You have a right to life, NOT a right to unnaturally extend your lifetime by stealing the fruits of other people's labor (in this case: money). You have a right to be free, but NOT to quell the freedom of others so that YOU may benefit (in this case: taxation). Healthy people do not need healthcare very often, and in the rare cases when they do, they don't bog down the system because their bodies are strong. Why are their bodies strong? Because healthy people eat correctly, healthy people exercise, therefore, healthy people have correctly functioning immune systems -- of course quality genes always help! In any case, taking that phrase from the Declaration of Independence and holding it out as an exhaustive list of rights is moronic. First, because it's not even a legal document -- it's only a statement of high-minded classical liberalism, albeit a historically important and influential one. Second, because it actually states We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that **AMONG** these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. The phrasing obviously implies that there are other human rights besides the three examples listed. After all, the purpose of the document was not to enumerate all human rights, but to air a list of grievances against King George and assert the right to revolt against him. Incidentally, not being required to pay taxes is not something that the founding fathers would have considered a human right, taxation being necessary to support government and representative government (at least according to the Declaration of Independence) being necessary to secure those rights. I never stated that taxation violated anyone's human rights. And i personally believe that some amount of taxation is a necessary in a democratic society. How else would the government pay the bills? Rule of law, infrastructure, national security (just to name a few) are all subjects that the government must handle for the sake of society as a whole. HOWEVER, healthcare is not a concern of the greater society, but only the individual -- with the exception of contagious disease of course, which effects us all! Cardiovascular diseases, cancers, cirrhosis, kidney failure, stroke, diabetes, etc..., are NOT contagious but continue to be a drain on healthcare costs. In fact, most of these problems are the results of an unhealthy lifestyle. Listen, I have no objection to folks living an unhealthy lifestyle. I say, if that's what makes you happy, GO FOR IT!. However, i'll be damned if i am going to subsidize their healthcare because now they are dying and can't afford the medical bills. Likewise if someone gets hit by a bus... was the person j-walking? If so, too bad. Ride a motorcycle without a helmet and get a concussion, too bad. Drink and drive and then end up in a coma, too bad! You play with fire and you get burned! You kick a bear in the ass and you get eaten. You stick your head in a crocodiles mouth and you suffer the consequences! You are not fit to survive in this universe. You were given fear for a reason. You were given pain for a reason. Those who refuse to learn are culled from the herd. Procreation should be a privilege, however sadly for our collective evolution, it's seems to be a right :( There is a word for the philosophy that procreation should be a privilege reserved for those with good genes: eugenics. No, the word is evolution; which means: survival of the fittest. Listen, i will be the first to admit that evolution is VERY unfair to those among us who have a poor gene pool. Poor genes are not our fault. We did not get to CHOOSE our genes, or our parents, or our country of origin, or etc, etc, etc! But these ARE the cards we were dealt as individuals of a species. That last sentence is VERY important: individuals of a species. We like to think that our individual lives matter in the greater scheme of things, but i can assure you we don't matter. Anyone who has studied animal behavior knows that only the strongest males are allowed to mate. Why is
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
Rick, you are either... On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:01 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: I can however tell you that what DOES matter is the continued improvement of the base gene pool. Yes, this improvement comes at a cost; the cost of the individual. Those with quality genes will reap the rewards, likewise, those with crap genes will not. ... a Nazi/Fascist/Commie mutant traitor, or... But go on falsely believing your little puny life matters. Go on believing in your worn out traditions and selfish languages and cultures. Go on believing that humans will be inhabiting this rock in the next 1000 years, or this universe in the next 10,000 -- because the enlightened few will have transcended into the mind hive and your @ $$ will be glued to Terra firma forever! ... the Borg. I'm not sure which is worse. Hmm, I think I just godwinned this thread. But at least I could couple it with a Paranoia reference. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 13/02/2012 21:01, Rick Johnson wrote: Healthy people do not need healthcare very often, and in the rare cases when they do, they don't bog down the system because their bodies are strong. Why are their bodies strong? Because healthy people eat correctly, healthy people exercise, therefore, healthy people have correctly functioning immune systems -- of course quality genes always help! Please explain why previously healthy people get struck down with Common Fatigue Syndrome amongst other things. -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 02/13/2012 09:01 AM, Rick Johnson wrote: Look, i hate super rich, arrogant people just as much i hate selfish people. But wait, Rick. You are a man of contradictions. We all are, but you seem to bluster on and on more about it than most. Firstly, to *hate* anyone, super-rich, arrogant, or not, _is_ selfish by definition. Also, while I accept that you do not see yourself as arrogant, there are others on this list, who are not particularly arrogant, who read your posts as occasionally being extremely arrogant. For example, your post mocking people for using English in ways that you do not personally approve. Maybe this is just an artifact of the limitations of the written word. Now to the second contradiction. You said that one way to fix health care costs would be to deny it to anyone who could not afford health care insurance. Put in another way, health care should only go to those that can afford to pay for the insurance or care, and not the free-loaders. Is that not what you said? Thus a super rich person should be commended as he will be able to afford health care without burdening anyone else in society. Does your hatred for super-rich, arrogant, people mean that you believe there is an acceptable dollar value for the wealth a person should morally be able to amass? All of this reminds me that I've always wanted to ask you something. After reading your many posts over the last couple of years, I am curious. What do you do for your career? Are you a professional software developer? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 13:01:05 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote: Healthy people do not need healthcare very often Healthy people don't need healthcase AT ALL. By definition, once you need healthcare, you are no longer healthy. Your faith in the magic of immune system is touching, but one wonders how immune system will save people who have been hit by a car. Rick, isn't it time for you to go back to forking Python so that the adoring silent majority who agrees with you can abandon this cesspool of inefficient Python code and use your awesome new version? Please don't disappoint your millions of fans! -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Feb 13, 3:46 pm, Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/13/2012 09:01 AM, Rick Johnson wrote: Look, i hate super rich, arrogant people just as much i hate selfish people. But wait, Rick. You are a man of contradictions. We all are, but you seem to bluster on and on more about it than most. Firstly, to *hate* anyone, super-rich, arrogant, or not, _is_ selfish by definition. Not necessarily. But i will admit that i did not choose my words correctly. I don't hate people simply BECAUSE they are rich. Just like i don't hate people simply because they are poor. However i DO hate what the super rich people BECOME. They become blind to their own position in the universe and instead start to believe the universe revolves around them. When their daily lives are consumed with vanity, and they lose all appreciation for the value of money. Yes, they have become something NOT to aspire to. But how much is too much? Good question, and the answer is ALWAYS subjective isn't it? A child might think $20 dollars is a lot of money. A homeless person might think someone who has a new model car is rich and not struggling. Same goes in the opposite direction. A rich man might choose suicide over life if confronted with the possibility of surviving on $40,000 a year. However, as we know, many folks survive on much less than that -- some even pretend to be happy! Can there be a specific amount wherein if you exceed that amount THEN you are living in excess? I believe there is a specific amount, however it is constantly changing depending on the current state of employment and wages. My equation looks like: # Py=3.0 py sum(earner.get_income(2012) for earner in earners2012) / len(earners2012) average_income Once you exceed that amount you are robbing your fellow man. How can you justify making more than your fair share UNLESS someone offers their work load to YOU? You can't. You are living in excess. And for those who think the average_income is too small, well then, it's time to implement population control! The fact is, we have far too many people living beyond their needs. We have people buying houses they can't afford and then blaming the bank for some how tricking them. They don't have the scruples to accept the blame! Take a look around man. The world is in death throes. World wide economic collapse is upon us. And how did we get here? Entitlements: which is just another manifestation of selfishness. Look at Greece. Look at Europe. America YOU are next! Put in another way, health care should only go to those that can afford to pay for the insurance or care, and not the free-loaders. Yes. Healthcare is a luxury available only to those who can afford it. If you can't afford healthcare, then visit a REAL charity hospital (not one subsidized by taxpayers!). A real charity is subsidized by caring folks who want to help their fellow man -- even if to only extend his suffering a few more days, months, or years. Thus a super rich person should be commended as he will be able to afford health care without burdening anyone else in society. commend is a strong word. I don't think paying your debts requires a pat on the back. If you have children, then you are required to raise them, you don't get brownie points for raising your children, it's your job! Same for debts. Does your hatred for super-rich, arrogant, people mean that you believe there is an acceptable dollar value for the wealth a person should morally be able to amass? see above equation for enlightenment ^^^ What do you do for your career? Are you a professional software developer? Why? Do you need the services of a professional software developer? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
[Reply sent off-list, partly because this is way off-topic, but also because python-list rejected my response as spam] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On 02/13/2012 05:39 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: Why? Do you need the services of a professional software developer? Do you have some to offer? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Rick Johnson rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com wrote: # Py=3.0 py sum(earner.get_income(2012) for earner in earners2012) / len(earners2012) average_income Once you exceed that amount you are robbing your fellow man. How can you justify making more than your fair share UNLESS someone offers their work load to YOU? You can't. You are living in excess. And for those who think the average_income is too small, well then, it's time to implement population control! My equation looks something like this: # Brain = 0,1 brain Your contribution to society / Society's contribution to you This value should be able to exceed 1.0 across the board. In fact, if it doesn't, then as a society we're moving backward. Rick, what's YOUR ratio? Oh wait, you mightn't be able to run that code. You may need to download an upgraded brain. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
