Re: Python for kids?
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Dec 7, 9:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live >> and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him >> interested in programming. > . . . > But I think it's better for you to help him get interest in problem- > solving . . . > Once those interests are in place, he will > probably go looking by himself for things like programming languages, > . . . > > Otherwise you risk pushing a person to learn using a tool (programming > is interesting by itself, but it's mostly a tool still) before having > any use for such tool or desire to learn it. And this may lead to > someone with no passion to solve problems and learn. > People are different. I for example learnt programming at 13 without having any initial use for it. My main motivation was, that my father brought the first computer, I ever saw (AIM-65) from work, but didn't want to spent time to explain me what it does and how it works. Instead he just gave me a book about BASIC and hoped I wouldn't bother him anymore. (For me as a slightly stubborn teenager this was challenge enough to show, that I could write a (whatever) basic program. If the book, that teaches programming has just a few 'fun examples' it could be enough to get him (Rus' son) started thinking about his own problems he could then solve with writing programs. Russ should best be able to know what could be 'fun-examples' for his son. Fun-examples could be things like: - high low number guessing program - drawing funny pictures with turtle graphics - printing out all possible combinations / permutations of som digits letters. - towers of hanoi - a very basic pong game - writing a mini data base for his 'whatever' - collection It might however be a little more complicated to motivate somebody to write some small rather simple programsm when it's so simple to google and download so much SW without knowing anythng about programming. 20-30 years ago it was basically impossible to locate and download (even did'nt have a modem :-) ) ready made SW Depending on his interests he might also be more interested in learning a spreadsheet SW / a drawing program and then attack the related macros / scripting language bye N -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Dec 7, 2:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website > that addresses this concern, preferably (but not necessarily) using > Python? I could try to teach him Python myself, but I'm afraid I would > just frustrate him and kill his interest in programming. I did a > Google search and found a few things, but not a lot. Thanks. Perhaps what he really needs is some time away from the screen. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Luis M. González <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is a very good advice. > I learned from my own experience in college that trying to learn a > solution to a problem I never had, is wasted time. > The first step is confronting your student with an specific problem, > then let him try to find a way to solve it by himself. > After he tried hard many approaches to solving the problem with his > limited knowledge, show him the right way. > This way he will see the light. > > I believe that many teachers don't know this basic concept, and they > simply teach in a mechanical way, without having their students > interested in the subject or without having explained them what > exactly these skills are good for. > > Luis As a current college student, I second that. I have several years of programming experience, but most of my friends are taking Intro Programming this semester (it's a required course for all engineers, not just CS students). They sort of understand the stuff they go over in class, but when they look at their homework problems (and they get very interesting problems. Like stories based off of Pokemon, Stargate, and Lord of the Rings. Not exactly useful, but fun), they're absolutely clueless. > > > On Dec 7, 5:37 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Dec 7, 9:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > > > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > > > interested in programming. > > > > Lot of people learn to program even before age of 12. > > But I think it's better for you to help him get interest in problem- > > solving and some of the other bases of the mathematic, scientific and > > computational mindset. Once those interests are in place, he will > > probably go looking by himself for things like programming languages, > > math and science (of course at that point a gentle guide toward good > > ideas, good problems to solve, good books to read and good programming > > languages, helps). > > > > Otherwise you risk pushing a person to learn using a tool (programming > > is interesting by itself, but it's mostly a tool still) before having > > any use for such tool or desire to learn it. And this may lead to > > someone with no passion to solve problems and learn. > > > > Bye, > > bearophile > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
Luis M. González: >After he tried hard many approaches to solving the problem with his limited >knowledge,< You may even be surprised to see he/her/hir find a solution without your help :-) Or maybe you will see a different solution, this happens often in math and computer science, even basic ones. >show him the right way. This way he will see the light.< Sometimes if the problem is interesting there are more than one "right way". And showing the light is more a purpose for priests than teachers ;-) Note that such things are well known, you can find similar things in tons of (most) books about pedagogy. For example you can try a simple but delicious book, "Brainstorms" by Seymour Papert (who also was one of the inventors of Logo language and is currently learning to talk and walk again). You can even find similar ideas in books more far from pedagogy ones, like "Deschooling Society" by Ivan Illich. Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
This is a very good advice. I learned from my own experience in college that trying to learn a solution to a problem I never had, is wasted time. The first step is confronting your student with an specific problem, then let him try to find a way to solve it by himself. After he tried hard many approaches to solving the problem with his limited knowledge, show him the right way. This way he will see the light. I believe that many teachers don't know this basic concept, and they simply teach in a mechanical way, without having their students interested in the subject or without having explained them what exactly these skills are good for. Luis On Dec 7, 5:37 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Dec 7, 9:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > > interested in programming. > > Lot of people learn to program even before age of 12. > But I think it's better for you to help him get interest in problem- > solving and some of the other bases of the mathematic, scientific and > computational mindset. Once those interests are in place, he will > probably go looking by himself for things like programming languages, > math and science (of course at that point a gentle guide toward good > ideas, good problems to solve, good books to read and good programming > languages, helps). > > Otherwise you risk pushing a person to learn using a tool (programming > is interesting by itself, but it's mostly a tool still) before having > any use for such tool or desire to learn it. And this may lead to > someone with no passion to solve problems and learn. > > Bye, > bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
Russ P. wrote: Thanks to everyone who replied. The information was very helpful. Someone might want to consider putting a kids section on python.org (if it doesn't have one already -- I didn't see one). You have a kid. Why don't you? :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
Thanks to everyone who replied. The information was very helpful. Someone might want to consider putting a kids section on python.org (if it doesn't have one already -- I didn't see one). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Dec 7, 12:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website > that addresses this concern, preferably (but not necessarily) using > Python? I could try to teach him Python myself, but I'm afraid I would > just frustrate him and kill his interest in programming. I did a > Google search and found a few things, but not a lot. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:13:37 -, Russ P. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website that addresses this concern, preferably (but not necessarily) using Python? I could try to teach him Python myself, but I'm afraid I would just frustrate him and kill his interest in programming. I did a Google search and found a few things, but not a lot. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list The LiveWires Python Course, http://www.livewires.org.uk/python/home is aimed at your son's age-group. There are several worksheets that involve building games using a simple veneer over pygame, if you need to entice him with something! -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Dec 7, 4:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website > that addresses this concern, preferably (but not necessarily) using > Python? I could try to teach him Python myself, but I'm afraid I would > just frustrate him and kill his interest in programming. I did a > Google search and found a few things, but not a lot. Thanks. http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net André -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Dec 7, 9:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > interested in programming. Lot of people learn to program even before age of 12. But I think it's better for you to help him get interest in problem- solving and some of the other bases of the mathematic, scientific and computational mindset. Once those interests are in place, he will probably go looking by himself for things like programming languages, math and science (of course at that point a gentle guide toward good ideas, good problems to solve, good books to read and good programming languages, helps). Otherwise you risk pushing a person to learn using a tool (programming is interesting by itself, but it's mostly a tool still) before having any use for such tool or desire to learn it. And this may lead to someone with no passion to solve problems and learn. Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:13:37 -0800 (PST) "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website > that addresses this concern, preferably (but not necessarily) using > Python? I could try to teach him Python myself, but I'm afraid I would > just frustrate him and kill his interest in programming. I did a > Google search and found a few things, but not a lot. Thanks. Since your son seems to enjoy games, getting him interested in game programming seems the most appropriate thing to do. I'm not much of a Gamer myself, but I should think maybe modding a shooter or other kind of game should be within the grasp of a 12 year old (provided you let him play shooters). Also, there's AGS (and friends) for making Adventure games. Depending on his interests, smaller projects might work out as well, such as Sudoku, Mahjongh, Card Games and whatnot. Any of those could well become father and son projects as long as you let him have the lead. Has he ever expressed an interest in programming at all? /W -- My real email address is constructed by swapping the domain with the recipient (local part). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for kids?
On Dec 7, 2008, at 15:13 , Russ P. wrote: I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website check out: http://www.briggs.net.nz/log/writing/snake-wrangling-for-kids/ it's specifically for Python, and geared for the age of your son. bb -- Brian Blais [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python for kids?
I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website that addresses this concern, preferably (but not necessarily) using Python? I could try to teach him Python myself, but I'm afraid I would just frustrate him and kill his interest in programming. I did a Google search and found a few things, but not a lot. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python for Kids
Sean wrote... > Pretty cool!! Our base will be *much* bigger in about twenty years. > I remember doing Basic on my dads Apple IIe. Gee, I wish Python existed back then. I had to endure Commore Basic on the PET2001. The biggest challenge was how to fit the program in 8K... It didn't take me long to switch to 6502 machine language to get more out of it. And I was a really happy kid when the S100 systems with FORTRAN and simple C compilers came along ;-) I wish I still had my original K&R "Programming C" and Kernighan&Plaughers "Software Tools" using RATFOR, but they have been lost in the mist of years. Greetings, -- "The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing." - Vinod Vallopillil http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween4.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python for Kids
Pretty cool!! Our base will be *much* bigger in about twenty years. I remember doing Basic on my dads Apple IIe. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pippy#Summary -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
