Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hereby recommend “pish and tosh” for use by anyone who wants to counter someone's point. It beats by a country furlong the invective that has become regrettably common here in recent months. I second the motion to use pish and tosh for a first level of disagreement. I recommend the rather archaic Balderdash as the next step in the escalation of disagreement... - hendrik -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
2008/12/5 Hendrik van Rooyen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I second the motion to use pish and tosh for a first level of disagreement. I recommend the rather archaic Balderdash as the next step in the escalation of disagreement... http://bash.org/?23396 -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 5, 12:29 pm, Hendrik van Rooyen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hereby recommend “pish and tosh” for use by anyone who wants to counter someone's point. It beats by a country furlong the invective that has become regrettably common here in recent months. I second the motion to use pish and tosh for a first level of disagreement. I recommend the rather archaic Balderdash as the next step in the escalation of disagreement... As a W.C. Fields fan, I love his non-swearing vocabulary: - Drat - Dag nab it - Holy Mother of Pearl! etc. - hendrik -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Mensanator wrote: On Dec 5, 12:29 pm, Hendrik van Rooyen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hereby recommend “pish and tosh” for use by anyone who wants to counter someone's point. It beats by a country furlong the invective that has become regrettably common here in recent months. I second the motion to use pish and tosh for a first level of disagreement. I recommend the rather archaic Balderdash as the next step in the escalation of disagreement... As a W.C. Fields fan, I love his non-swearing vocabulary: - Drat - Dag nab it - Holy Mother of Pearl! etc. Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish! (Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy) But don't say B*m. :-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/belgium.shtml -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:16:47 -0800, Fernando H. Sanches wrote: I agree that the tab/space thing should be changed. Would it be too hard to make the parser see if the indentation is consistent in the whole file? *Something* has changed. I had a piece of code where, without realizing it, I had a tab mixed in with the spaces at the start of one line in a block. In 2.5, it worked, silently. In 3.0, I got an indentation error. -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 -- pass it on -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Andreas Waldenburger: Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You get warnings. Everything else is up to you. It's a strong source for bugs, especially for newbies, that I have hoped to see removed from Python3 (my first request of this was years ago). I was nearly sure to see this wart removed from Python3, and now I hear it's presents still. I don't understand why they haven't fixed it. Then this is the third thing I don't like of Python3 (the other two being the removal of automatic tuple unpacking in function signature and the wart of literals for empty set/dict). Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:49:46 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow Andreas stuff? You get warnings. Everything else is up to you. It's more than warnings. With properly crafted combinations of spaces and tabs you can get code which looks like it has a certain indentation to the human observer but which looks like it has different indentation (and thus different semantics) to the byte code compiler. There is often no warning. I just looked at python --help, it seems that there is no warning per default. My point is: If you mix tabs and spaces in a way that breaks code, you'll find out pretty easily, because your program will not work. It's your choice, and I think it's pretty nice that Python lets you choose. After all, some people are of the indentation for structure, spaces for alignment faction. Why make their life harder? /W -- My real email address is constructed by swapping the domain with the recipient (local part). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Andreas Waldenburger: My point is: If you mix tabs and spaces in a way that breaks code, you'll find out pretty easily, because your program will not work. - Most newbies don't know that. - Sometimes it may produce wrong results. - And even if you are an expert when you go changing a little a source code that mixes tabs and spaces you usually break the code. Is this enough for you? Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Whitespace in Python (3) [was: RELEASED Python 3.0 final]
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 07:46:02 -0800 (PST) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Waldenburger: My point is: If you mix tabs and spaces in a way that breaks code, you'll find out pretty easily, because your program will not work. - Most newbies don't know that. - Sometimes it may produce wrong results. - And even if you are an expert when you go changing a little a source code that mixes tabs and spaces you usually break the code. Is this enough for you? No. While you are right on all accounts, forcing uniformity would still interfere with (some) people's coding styles, wrong as they might be. Python is not Gnome. Maybe having Python issue warnings for inconsistent whitespace per default might be a good idea. But that's about as far as I would go. /W -- My real email address is constructed by swapping the domain with the recipient (local part). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:49:46 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's more than warnings. With properly crafted combinations of spaces and tabs you can get code which looks like it has a certain indentation to the human observer but which looks like it has different indentation (and thus different semantics) to the byte code compiler. There is often no warning. Fascinating. Has anybody developed demo code that looks, during code review, as if it prints a Snoopy calendar, but really, during execution, emails your password file to Minsk? The security implications are intriguing. What's the most underhanded thing anybody has seen done? -- To email me, substitute nowhere-spamcop, invalid-net. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Waldenburger: Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You get warnings. Everything else is up to you. It's a strong source for bugs, especially for newbies, that I have hoped to see removed from Python3 (my first request of this was years ago). I was nearly sure to see this wart removed from Python3, and now I hear it's presents still. I don't understand why they haven't fixed it. Did you or someone fine a specific rejection of disallowing mixture in 3.0, or did no one specifically suggest it and offer to make the change? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 4, 5:45 pm, Andreas Waldenburger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:52:38 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you have probably guessed: nothing changed here. Also see:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0666/ What? Do you mean it's possible to mix tabs and spaces still? Why? Daniel Why not? Because it has historically been a source of errors in a mixed development environment (people using text editors with different tab stops). Better to not allow them to be mixed. Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You get warnings. Everything else is up to you. /W -- My real email address is constructed by swapping the domain with the recipient (local part). Python has not allowed stuff for a long time. For example, it disallows statements in lambdas. Disallowing is not bad. Disallowing bad practices (like mixing tabs and spaces) is actually good! I agree that the tab/space thing should be changed. Would it be too hard to make the parser see if the indentation is consistent in the whole file? This is a annoying source of problems, specially since you can't tell a whitespace from a tab just looking at it. And I personally disliked most of the changes (specially the ones on map and reduce). I hope functional programming doesn't get even more hindered in future releases, because I believe these changes only made Python weaker. Well, anyway, congratulations for everyone for Python 3 release. Some of the changes were a real improvement (like the Unicode sources). And I hope that, in the end, these changes help making Python a better language. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:16:47 -0800 (PST) Fernando H. Sanches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 4, 5:45 pm, Andreas Waldenburger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:52:38 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You get warnings. Everything else is up to you. [snip] Python has not allowed stuff for a long time. For example, it disallows statements in lambdas. Which is sensible (for Python) because it does not have block delimiters. Also, lambdas are syntactic sugar for special use cases. It's not like they are needed at all. But sometimes mixing tabs and spaces can be needed (think coding standards). What else is disallowed? Disallowing is not bad. Disallowing bad practices (like mixing tabs and spaces) is actually good! This presupposes that mixing tabs and spaces is bad. That's like saying C++ is bad. I agree that the tab/space thing should be changed. Would it be too hard to make the parser see if the indentation is consistent in the whole file? Maybe not, but it would be rather hard to agree on what can be called consistent and what can not, I think. You can mix spaces and tabs consistently, just as you can use any one consistently. This is a annoying source of problems, specially since you can't tell a whitespace from a tab just looking at it. There are editors that let you show different symbols for spaces and tabs (I know, I know ...). And I personally disliked most of the changes (specially the ones on map and reduce). I hope functional programming doesn't get even more hindered in future releases, because I believe these changes only made Python weaker. +1 /W -- My real email address is constructed by swapping the domain with the recipient (local part). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:09:27 -0800, bearophileHUGS wrote: Andreas Waldenburger: Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You get warnings. Everything else is up to you. It's a strong source for bugs, especially for newbies, that I have hoped to see removed from Python3 (my first request of this was years ago). I was nearly sure to see this wart removed from Python3, and now I hear it's presents still. I don't understand why they haven't fixed it. It? Context please... snipping unnecessarily quoted text is a good thing, but please leave enough context for people to know what you're talking about. I think you're talking about mixed spaces/tabs in the one module. Frankly, I question just how strong a source of bugs it really is. Oh, I don't doubt that there are circumstances where it can cause bugs, but I don't remember the last time the solution to some newbie's problem on comp.lang.python was use spaces or tabs but not both. My gut feeling is that you have to have a fairly unusual set of circumstances before it causes actual bugs. So perhaps nobody on the python-dev team have fixed it yet because nobody cares enough to do the work, or it's unexciting and tedious to fix. Or maybe python-dev *think* they've fixed it, and the fact that it isn't fixed is a bug that needs reporting. Then this is the third thing I don't like of Python3 (the other two being the removal of automatic tuple unpacking in function signature and the wart of literals for empty set/dict). Er, what do you mean? What wart? -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:01:55 +, je.s.te.r wrote: Fernando H. Sanches [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I personally disliked most of the changes (specially the ones on map and reduce). I hope functional programming doesn't get even more hindered in future releases, because I believe these changes only made Python weaker. The functional programming aspect of Python is one of my favorite parts, having a mixed background in functional/non-functional languages. map is still a built-in. reduce is moved to functools. I think the only change to map is that instead of returning a list, it returns an iterator. What this means is that Python's functional programming aspect is now lazy, and that's a good thing. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: comp.lang.python3k ? The language has undergone an incompatible divide. Hopefully the community need not do the same. Pish and tosh. James was clearly making a funny; there's not *that* much difference between 2.x and 3.x. -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code. --Bill Harlan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) writes: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: comp.lang.python3k ? The language has undergone an incompatible divide. Hopefully the community need not do the same. Pish and tosh. James was clearly making a funny; there's not *that* much difference between 2.x and 3.x. You appear to assume I was not going along with the funny. To be expected, I suppose, given the well-documented context lossage in a message-based medium. I hereby recommend “pish and tosh” for use by anyone who wants to counter someone's point. It beats by a country furlong the invective that has become regrettably common here in recent months. -- \“I was once walking through the forest alone and a tree fell | `\ right in front of me, and I didn't hear it.” —Steven Wright | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Steven D'Aprano:
I think you're talking about mixed spaces/tabs in the one module.
Right.
My gut feeling is that you have to have a fairly unusual set of circumstances
before it causes actual bugs.
I don't mix tab and spaces in my code, and my editor is able to
convert them, so after the first few days of Python coding, it more or
less never caused me problems.
But such thing in code written by others has caused me enough
troubles, I am generally unable to edit such code keeping it
functional, so I have to (sometimes by trial and error) convert it to
a space only (or tabs only) format.
Such troubles aren't that large compared for example to the usual
troubles I receive writing and comping C++ code, but enough compared
to the usual smoothness of coding in Python :-)
Er, what do you mean? What wart?
Not using {:}/{} as literals for empty dict/set.
Bye,
bearophile
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 4, 1:51 am, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Python 3.0 (a.k.a. Python 3000 or Py3k) represents a major milestone in Python's history, and was nearly three years in the making. This is a new version of the language that is incompatible with the 2.x line of releases, while remaining true to BDFL Guido van Rossum's vision. Some things you will notice include: * Fixes to many old language warts * Removal of long deprecated features and redundant syntax * Improvements in, and a reorganization of, the standard library * Changes to the details of how built-in objects like strings and dicts work * ...and many more new features While these changes were made without concern for backward compatibility, Python 3.0 still remains very much Pythonic. We are confident that Python 3.0 is of the same high quality as our previous releases, such as the recently announced Python 2.6. We will continue to support and develop both Python 3 and Python 2 for the foreseeable future, and you can safely choose either version (or both) to use in your projects. Which you choose depends on your own needs and the availability of third-party packages that you depend on. Some other things to consider: * Python 3 has a single Unicode string type; there are no more 8-bit strings * The C API has changed considerably in Python 3.0 and third-party extension modules you rely on may not yet be ported * Tools are available in both Python 2.6 and 3.0 to help you migrate your code * Python 2.6 is backward compatible with earlier Python 2.x releases We encourage you to participate in Python 3.0's development process by joining its mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 If you find things in Python 3.0 that are broken or incorrect, please submit bug reports at: http://bugs.python.org/ For more information, links to documentation, and downloadable distributions, see the Python 3.0 website: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ Enjoy, - -Barry Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Python 2.6/3.0 Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBSTc3pXEjvBPtnXfVAQI69wP/dPHh8IL3GxziEV9QzlveKG+KyZb2X16x fxJnTCiXAbiAhT5C+m43OEnbF1PJgMDKtcZ5b7aQb4TQ0mJxISTQh0RfLCpArmlo tdTbzCLnh13KzB+3sUHCx+MeQNXERoWDV8hLz+4Ae71UsuUGynhtyP7ZJMJDue8j so2gv3fOMSs= =vkiy -END PGP SIGNATURE- Props. I just looked through the What's New and the change log, but I couldn't find the answer to something: has any change been made to how tabs and spaces are used as indentation? Can they still be (inadvisably) mixed in one file? Or, more extremely, has one or the other been abolished? Iain -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Iain King wrote: [...] Props. I just looked through the What's New and the change log, but I couldn't find the answer to something: has any change been made to how tabs and spaces are used as indentation? Can they still be (inadvisably) mixed in one file? Or, more extremely, has one or the other been abolished? As you have probably guessed: nothing changed here. Also see: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0666/ -- Gerhard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Hello, On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:51 AM, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- We will continue to support and develop both Python 3 and Python 2 for the foreseeable future, and you can safely choose either version (or both) to use in your projects. Which you choose depends on your own needs and the availability of third-party packages that you depend on. I would like to ask, how long will Python 2 be developed? Just for curiosity. Thank you for your work. Cheers, - === Ioan Vancea http://www.vioan.ro -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Congratulations on a fantastic work! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Hi, This is great, however, the link to the What's New page appears to be broken. http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/3.1.html RHH On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Istvan Albert [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Congratulations on a fantastic work! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Hi On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Roy H. Han [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, This is great, however, the link to the What's New page appears to be broken. http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/3.1.html replace 3.1 with 3.0 :), so it has to be: http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html Cheers, -- === Ioan Vancea http://www.vioan.ro -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 3, 7:51 pm, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Way to go and congratulations! --greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Yay! Thanks for all the great work. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Gerhard Häring: As you have probably guessed: nothing changed here. Also see:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0666/ What? Do you mean it's possible to mix tabs and spaces still? Why? Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
As you have probably guessed: nothing changed here. Also see:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0666/ What? Do you mean it's possible to mix tabs and spaces still? Why? Why not? Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
As you have probably guessed: nothing changed here. Also see:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0666/ What? Do you mean it's possible to mix tabs and spaces still? Why? Daniel Why not? Because it has historically been a source of errors in a mixed development environment (people using text editors with different tab stops). Better to not allow them to be mixed. Skip -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:30:52 -0800 Daniel Fetchinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you have probably guessed: nothing changed here. Also see:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0666/ What? Do you mean it's possible to mix tabs and spaces still? Why? Why not? +1 -- My real email address is constructed by swapping the domain with the recipient (local part). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:52:38 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you have probably guessed: nothing changed here. Also see:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0666/ What? Do you mean it's possible to mix tabs and spaces still? Why? Daniel Why not? Because it has historically been a source of errors in a mixed development environment (people using text editors with different tab stops). Better to not allow them to be mixed. Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You get warnings. Everything else is up to you. /W -- My real email address is constructed by swapping the domain with the recipient (local part). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Andreas Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You Andreas get warnings. Everything else is up to you. It's more than warnings. With properly crafted combinations of spaces and tabs you can get code which looks like it has a certain indentation to the human observer but which looks like it has different indentation (and thus different semantics) to the byte code compiler. There is often no warning. Skip -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 4, 4:49 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Whenever has it been a pythonic ideal to not allow stuff? You Andreas get warnings. Everything else is up to you. It's more than warnings. With properly crafted combinations of spaces and tabs you can get code which looks like it has a certain indentation to the human observer but which looks like it has different indentation (and thus different semantics) to the byte code compiler. There is often no warning. Amazing.. was it a conscious decision to keep the current behavior in 3.x or it was not even considered dropping it ?? Does anyone have a link where this was decided ? George -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
I would like to ask, how long will Python 2 be developed? Just for curiosity. There won't be a 2.10 release of Python. Whether that means that 2.9 will be the last one, or whether development stops earlier, remains to be seen. Regards, Martin -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Hi, Congratulations to the Python 3.0 team!! Great! I was able to download the Python 3.0 documentation. Looks good. Any hints when the Mac OSX version of Python 3.0 will be available? Cheers, Roger. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Barry Warsaw wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. comp.lang.python3k ? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: comp.lang.python3k ? The language has undergone an incompatible divide. Hopefully the community need not do the same. -- \ “People come up to me and say, ‘Emo, do people really come up | `\to you?’” —Emo Philips | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RELEASED Python 3.0 final
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Python 3.0 (a.k.a. Python 3000 or Py3k) represents a major milestone in Python's history, and was nearly three years in the making. This is a new version of the language that is incompatible with the 2.x line of releases, while remaining true to BDFL Guido van Rossum's vision. Some things you will notice include: * Fixes to many old language warts * Removal of long deprecated features and redundant syntax * Improvements in, and a reorganization of, the standard library * Changes to the details of how built-in objects like strings and dicts work * ...and many more new features While these changes were made without concern for backward compatibility, Python 3.0 still remains very much Pythonic. We are confident that Python 3.0 is of the same high quality as our previous releases, such as the recently announced Python 2.6. We will continue to support and develop both Python 3 and Python 2 for the foreseeable future, and you can safely choose either version (or both) to use in your projects. Which you choose depends on your own needs and the availability of third-party packages that you depend on. Some other things to consider: * Python 3 has a single Unicode string type; there are no more 8-bit strings * The C API has changed considerably in Python 3.0 and third-party extension modules you rely on may not yet be ported * Tools are available in both Python 2.6 and 3.0 to help you migrate your code * Python 2.6 is backward compatible with earlier Python 2.x releases We encourage you to participate in Python 3.0's development process by joining its mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 If you find things in Python 3.0 that are broken or incorrect, please submit bug reports at: http://bugs.python.org/ For more information, links to documentation, and downloadable distributions, see the Python 3.0 website: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ Enjoy, - -Barry Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Python 2.6/3.0 Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBSTc3pXEjvBPtnXfVAQI69wP/dPHh8IL3GxziEV9QzlveKG+KyZb2X16x fxJnTCiXAbiAhT5C+m43OEnbF1PJgMDKtcZ5b7aQb4TQ0mJxISTQh0RfLCpArmlo tdTbzCLnh13KzB+3sUHCx+MeQNXERoWDV8hLz+4Ae71UsuUGynhtyP7ZJMJDue8j so2gv3fOMSs= =vkiy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
RELEASED Python 3.0 final
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Python 3.0 (a.k.a. Python 3000 or Py3k) represents a major milestone in Python's history, and was nearly three years in the making. This is a new version of the language that is incompatible with the 2.x line of releases, while remaining true to BDFL Guido van Rossum's vision. Some things you will notice include: * Fixes to many old language warts * Removal of long deprecated features and redundant syntax * Improvements in, and a reorganization of, the standard library * Changes to the details of how built-in objects like strings and dicts work * ...and many more new features While these changes were made without concern for backward compatibility, Python 3.0 still remains very much Pythonic. We are confident that Python 3.0 is of the same high quality as our previous releases, such as the recently announced Python 2.6. We will continue to support and develop both Python 3 and Python 2 for the foreseeable future, and you can safely choose either version (or both) to use in your projects. Which you choose depends on your own needs and the availability of third-party packages that you depend on. Some other things to consider: * Python 3 has a single Unicode string type; there are no more 8-bit strings * The C API has changed considerably in Python 3.0 and third-party extension modules you rely on may not yet be ported * Tools are available in both Python 2.6 and 3.0 to help you migrate your code * Python 2.6 is backward compatible with earlier Python 2.x releases We encourage you to participate in Python 3.0's development process by joining its mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 If you find things in Python 3.0 that are broken or incorrect, please submit bug reports at: http://bugs.python.org/ For more information, links to documentation, and downloadable distributions, see the Python 3.0 website: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ Enjoy, - -Barry Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Python 2.6/3.0 Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBSTc3pXEjvBPtnXfVAQI69wP/dPHh8IL3GxziEV9QzlveKG+KyZb2X16x fxJnTCiXAbiAhT5C+m43OEnbF1PJgMDKtcZ5b7aQb4TQ0mJxISTQh0RfLCpArmlo tdTbzCLnh13KzB+3sUHCx+MeQNXERoWDV8hLz+4Ae71UsuUGynhtyP7ZJMJDue8j so2gv3fOMSs= =vkiy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 4, 11:51 am, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Thanks to you and everyone involved for your efforts! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
2008/12/4 Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Congratulations! I have been learning Python 2.x while paying strict attention to the 3.x [in]compatibility issue. So, I have been waiting for this day since I've started with Python! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On this page: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ The text This is a proeuction release should probably read This is a production release. It would give a better first impression :) -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Dec 3, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On this page: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ The text This is a proeuction release should probably read This is a production release. It would give a better first impression :) Fixed, thanks! - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBSTc/WHEjvBPtnXfVAQL8TwP+M2Ryv7WY36ICEvzGU4EzlRG/gI4MolQe cD8DJUJfQuR6INTot/t7vTcL8oDHq7q9OHbfvd3jmSwH/ZytsMz2OvJUYlKDQjwG BcQRpioprcesoU6cufSmKAUiUP+L0RTAMmT0WDbbeCzzMZRq3Humd4Zs43nL26NT uFb83Dk6yWA= =qPjn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:58 AM, alex23 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 4, 11:51 am, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Thanks to you and everyone involved for your efforts! +1 --JamesMills -- -- -- Problems are solved by method -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 3, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Props to all the folks whose hard work made this possible! You guys rock! -- Ed Leafe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Python 3.0 (a.k.a. Python 3000 or Py3k) represents a major milestone in Python's history, and was nearly three years in the making. This is a new version of the language that is incompatible with the 2.x line of releases, while remaining true to BDFL Guido van Rossum's vision. Some things you will notice include: * Fixes to many old language warts * Removal of long deprecated features and redundant syntax * Improvements in, and a reorganization of, the standard library * Changes to the details of how built-in objects like strings and dicts work * ...and many more new features While these changes were made without concern for backward compatibility, Python 3.0 still remains very much Pythonic. We are confident that Python 3.0 is of the same high quality as our previous releases, such as the recently announced Python 2.6. We will continue to support and develop both Python 3 and Python 2 for the foreseeable future, and you can safely choose either version (or both) to use in your projects. Which you choose depends on your own needs and the availability of third-party packages that you depend on. Some other things to consider: * Python 3 has a single Unicode string type; there are no more 8-bit strings * The C API has changed considerably in Python 3.0 and third-party extension modules you rely on may not yet be ported * Tools are available in both Python 2.6 and 3.0 to help you migrate your code * Python 2.6 is backward compatible with earlier Python 2.x releases We encourage you to participate in Python 3.0's development process by joining its mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 If you find things in Python 3.0 that are broken or incorrect, please submit bug reports at: http://bugs.python.org/ For more information, links to documentation, and downloadable distributions, see the Python 3.0 website: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ Enjoy, - -Barry Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Python 2.6/3.0 Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) uname -a Linux fetch 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 #1 SMP Tue Oct 30 13:18:33 EDT 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux tar xzvf Python-3.0.tgz cd Python-3.0 ./configure make Failed to find the necessary bits to build these modules: _tkinter To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name. Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Daniel Fetchinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Python 3.0 (a.k.a. Python 3000 or Py3k) represents a major milestone in Python's history, and was nearly three years in the making. This is a new version of the language that is incompatible with the 2.x line of releases, while remaining true to BDFL Guido van Rossum's vision. Some things you will notice include: * Fixes to many old language warts * Removal of long deprecated features and redundant syntax * Improvements in, and a reorganization of, the standard library * Changes to the details of how built-in objects like strings and dicts work * ...and many more new features While these changes were made without concern for backward compatibility, Python 3.0 still remains very much Pythonic. We are confident that Python 3.0 is of the same high quality as our previous releases, such as the recently announced Python 2.6. We will continue to support and develop both Python 3 and Python 2 for the foreseeable future, and you can safely choose either version (or both) to use in your projects. Which you choose depends on your own needs and the availability of third-party packages that you depend on. Some other things to consider: * Python 3 has a single Unicode string type; there are no more 8-bit strings * The C API has changed considerably in Python 3.0 and third-party extension modules you rely on may not yet be ported * Tools are available in both Python 2.6 and 3.0 to help you migrate your code * Python 2.6 is backward compatible with earlier Python 2.x releases We encourage you to participate in Python 3.0's development process by joining its mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 If you find things in Python 3.0 that are broken or incorrect, please submit bug reports at: http://bugs.python.org/ For more information, links to documentation, and downloadable distributions, see the Python 3.0 website: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ Enjoy, - -Barry Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Python 2.6/3.0 Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) uname -a Linux fetch 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 #1 SMP Tue Oct 30 13:18:33 EDT 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux tar xzvf Python-3.0.tgz cd Python-3.0 ./configure make Failed to find the necessary bits to build these modules: _tkinter Do you have Tcl/Tk and their dev libs installed? Tkinter is based on Tcl/Tk. Also, that error isn't fatal, it just means that Tkinter won't be installed because it can't find the libs. Cheers, Chris -- Follow the path of the Iguana... http://rebertia.com To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name. Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Python 3.0 (a.k.a. Python 3000 or Py3k) represents a major milestone in Python's history, and was nearly three years in the making. This is a new version of the language that is incompatible with the 2.x line of releases, while remaining true to BDFL Guido van Rossum's vision. Some things you will notice include: * Fixes to many old language warts * Removal of long deprecated features and redundant syntax * Improvements in, and a reorganization of, the standard library * Changes to the details of how built-in objects like strings and dicts work * ...and many more new features While these changes were made without concern for backward compatibility, Python 3.0 still remains very much Pythonic. We are confident that Python 3.0 is of the same high quality as our previous releases, such as the recently announced Python 2.6. We will continue to support and develop both Python 3 and Python 2 for the foreseeable future, and you can safely choose either version (or both) to use in your projects. Which you choose depends on your own needs and the availability of third-party packages that you depend on. Some other things to consider: * Python 3 has a single Unicode string type; there are no more 8-bit strings * The C API has changed considerably in Python 3.0 and third-party extension modules you rely on may not yet be ported * Tools are available in both Python 2.6 and 3.0 to help you migrate your code * Python 2.6 is backward compatible with earlier Python 2.x releases We encourage you to participate in Python 3.0's development process by joining its mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 If you find things in Python 3.0 that are broken or incorrect, please submit bug reports at: http://bugs.python.org/ For more information, links to documentation, and downloadable distributions, see the Python 3.0 website: http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/ Enjoy, - -Barry Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Python 2.6/3.0 Release Manager (on behalf of the entire python-dev team) uname -a Linux fetch 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 #1 SMP Tue Oct 30 13:18:33 EDT 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux tar xzvf Python-3.0.tgz cd Python-3.0 ./configure make Failed to find the necessary bits to build these modules: _tkinter Do you have Tcl/Tk and their dev libs installed? Tkinter is based on Tcl/Tk. Also, that error isn't fatal, it just means that Tkinter won't be installed because it can't find the libs. Cheers, Chris -- Follow the path of the Iguana... http://rebertia.com To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name. Cheers, Daniel I thought I didn't have to download tcl/tk stuff separately. At least I never did that for python 2.x but maybe somewhere they are installed on my box anyway. But why I have this issue with 3.0 I don't quite get, of course you are right, it's not fatal. Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
On Dec 3, 7:51 pm, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Congratulations! This is a great day for the Python community. Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
thankers.append(self) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: RELEASED Python 3.0 final
Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Dec 3, 7:51 pm, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I am happy to announce the release of Python 3.0 final. Congratulations! This is a great day for the Python community. I'm rather disappointed that crucial information was not given in this announcement: Where is the release party? The public needs to know! :-) Congratulations, and thanks to the entire Python team. -- \“I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park | `\ anywhere near the place.” —Steven Wright | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
