Re: immutable vs mutable
-Original Message- From: et...@stoneleaf.us Sent: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:24:01 -0700 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: immutable vs mutable Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris. And keep asking questions. -- ~Ethan~ Oh, I will. I found the article very helpful (I doubt Mr. Harris actually read it) and I've gotten a handle on the subject now, so I'll beat some other subjects as needed lol. Have a pleasant day. Deb in WA, USA FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On 04/06/2014 06:02, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 12:27:36 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: Want to be sure your questions are smart? Willing to put in a bit of effort to make yourself welcomed not just courteously, but enthusiastically? Check out this essay, one of the more famous ones: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html I have found that (like much from Eric S Raymond) it's more idiosyncratic and pretentious than a useful educational tool. Although this is aimed at Java programmers, I think it is MUCH more accessible: http://sscce.org/ +1 -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On 04/06/2014 04:56, Deb Wyatt wrote: Thank you for this link. I will do my best to ask *smart* questions. I struggle with explaining myself sometimes, especially when trying to grasp something that baffles me. Deb in WA, USA Welcome to the wonderful world of computing :) -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On 6/3/14 8:24 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris. Ouch, that hurt. Did someone not get their coffee this morning? :-) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On 6/3/14 8:14 PM, Deb Wyatt wrote: Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not as smart as you. Not at all. I think you misunderstood me. I read the article and I reviewed it (although brief, I stand by what I said). To expand a bit, the article is poorly written and adds more confusion to the topic than it straightens out. (that is not a comment on your, or my, intelligence) Most of the article is based on a misunderstanding of the concept of python as variable, and that topic comes up here all the time with these at the top: 1) python does not have variables 2) python has names bound to objects 3) python of *course* has variables marcus -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On 6/3/14 12:29 PM, Deb Wyatt wrote: http://www.spontaneoussymmetry.com/blog/archives/438 Deb in WA, USA The article is bogged down in unnecessary complications with regard to mutability (or not) and pass-by reference|value stuff. The author risks confusing her audience (those who are perhaps already confused about the nature of variables in Python). The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which has been beat to death on this forum. marcus -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which has been beat to death on this forum. marcus Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not as smart as you. I won't beat it anymore. Deb in WA, USA FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which has been beat to death on this forum. marcus Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not as smart as you. I won't beat it anymore. Deb in WA, USA FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On 06/03/2014 06:14 PM, Deb Wyatt wrote: Mark Harris wrote: The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which has been beat to death on this forum. Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not as smart as you. I won't beat it anymore. Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris. And keep asking questions. -- ~Ethan~ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 06/03/2014 06:14 PM, Deb Wyatt wrote: Mark Harris wrote: The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which has been beat to death on this forum. Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not as smart as you. I won't beat it anymore. Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris. That may be slightly extreme... And keep asking questions. ... but this is definitely good advice. Want to get the most out of your computer? Step one: Don't be afraid of it. Step two: Don't be afraid of us, either. There's very little you can do on a computer that's unexpectedly damaging, and it's easy to keep backups (tip: use git/hg repositories and backups basically come for free); and we don't bite, so keep on asking smart questions. Want to be sure your questions are smart? Willing to put in a bit of effort to make yourself welcomed not just courteously, but enthusiastically? Check out this essay, one of the more famous ones: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html There are tips in there that will help you to make those really awesome threads that we all dive into and enjoy helping with. You learn what you wanted to know (and probably lots more besides), we enjoy a thoroughly discussed topic, and the list/newsgroup archives add that bit more to the internet's corpus of useful knowledge. Everyone wins! ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
And keep asking questions. ... but this is definitely good advice. Want to get the most out of your computer? Step one: Don't be afraid of it. Step two: Don't be afraid of us, either. There's very little you can do on a computer that's unexpectedly damaging, and it's easy to keep backups (tip: use git/hg repositories and backups basically come for free); and we don't bite, so keep on asking smart questions. Want to be sure your questions are smart? Willing to put in a bit of effort to make yourself welcomed not just courteously, but enthusiastically? Check out this essay, one of the more famous ones: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html There are tips in there that will help you to make those really awesome threads that we all dive into and enjoy helping with. You learn what you wanted to know (and probably lots more besides), we enjoy a thoroughly discussed topic, and the list/newsgroup archives add that bit more to the internet's corpus of useful knowledge. Everyone wins! ChrisA -- Thank you for this link. I will do my best to ask *smart* questions. I struggle with explaining myself sometimes, especially when trying to grasp something that baffles me. Deb in WA, USA FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: immutable vs mutable
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 12:27:36 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: Want to be sure your questions are smart? Willing to put in a bit of effort to make yourself welcomed not just courteously, but enthusiastically? Check out this essay, one of the more famous ones: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html I have found that (like much from Eric S Raymond) it's more idiosyncratic and pretentious than a useful educational tool. Although this is aimed at Java programmers, I think it is MUCH more accessible: http://sscce.org/ -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
