Re: the name ``wheel''
> On 22 Mar 2024, at 20:28, Mats Wichmann via Python-list > wrote: > > pip is still a separate package in the .rpm world. which makes sense on a > couple of levels: Yes it’s a separate package, but it’s always installed. At least on Fedora. I agree it makes sense to package it separately, which is inline with Fedora’s policy of not vendoring code into a package. Barry -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
On 3/22/24 11:45, Barry via Python-list wrote: On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:25, Gilmeh Serda via Python-list wrote: Many if not most Linux distributions do not include pip by default. Really? It came with Manjaro. Debian and Ubuntu require you to install pip as a separate package. Also puts venv in its own package. Fedora leaves all the batteries intact and rhel I assume. pip is still a separate package in the .rpm world. which makes sense on a couple of levels: * pip releases on its own cycle, you wouldn't want to have to *force* a new release of python + python-libs + python-devel + maybe others, if you happened want to rev pip forward independently. * in a distro-packaged world, that's the primary place you get your Python packages from, and pip isn't seen as being as necessary, and potentially even as destructive. How many times have you seen an article that suggests you "sudo pip install randompackage"? Many distro setups now disallow installing like that. If you know what you're doing, and particularly if you're happy to control a specific environment by setting up a virtualenv, then fine, you'll still have access to everything you need. anyway, I seem to recall the original message (which I've since deleted) was asking about Windows anyway. There it's quite unusual to end up without pip, but not so unusual to end up without the *command* named pip - search path things, and all that. Usually if you "py -m pip --version" you'll see it's actually installed, just not accessible using the current search path. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
> On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:25, Gilmeh Serda via Python-list > wrote: > >> Many if not most Linux distributions do not include pip by default. > > Really? It came with Manjaro. Debian and Ubuntu require you to install pip as a separate package. Also puts venv in its own package. Fedora leaves all the batteries intact and rhel I assume. Barry -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
Am Do., 21.März.2024 um 18:58:26 schrieb Johanne Fairchild via Python-list: r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes: Johanne Fairchild wrote or quoted: Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for the extension WHL or is it really a name? PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop. And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese. Lol! Loved it. (Thanks very much.) Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come with pip ready to run. I had to say Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed because they have their own package management systems. But this was a Windows install. I don't think Windows has its own package management for Python packages. I'd be totally surprised. The python packages found at https://www.python.org/downloads/ come with pip and pip installed out of the box. But there are others like active python having other packet managers they do not install pip out of the box. Refer to their instructions how to install packages. -- Thomas OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
On 3/21/2024 4:19 PM, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote: On 2024-03-21, MRAB via Python-list wrote: As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use that instead: py -m pip install something because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of Python installed. I adopted that practice years ago on Linux as well after wasting what seemed like most of a day trying to figure out problems which turned out to be caused by the fact that "pip" and "python" invoked different versions of Python. Although you still need to be aware that there might be a different Python installation between e.g. "python3 -m pip" and "python3.11 -m pip", etc. depending on what's been installed. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
On 2024-03-21, MRAB via Python-list wrote: > As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use > that instead: > > py -m pip install something > > because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of > Python installed. I adopted that practice years ago on Linux as well after wasting what seemed like most of a day trying to figure out problems which turned out to be caused by the fact that "pip" and "python" invoked different versions of Python. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
On 2024-03-21 11:36, Johanne Fairchild via Python-list wrote: Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for the extension WHL or is it really a name? Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come with pip ready to run. I had to say python -m ensurepip and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you! When I install Python on Windows, I always get pip by default, although it might not be on the system search path. As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use that instead: py -m pip install something because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of Python installed. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes: > Johanne Fairchild wrote or quoted: >>Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for >>the extension WHL or is it really a name? > > PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous > part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it > only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop. > And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese. Lol! Loved it. (Thanks very much.) >>Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come >>with pip ready to run. I had to say > > Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed > because they have their own package management systems. But this was a Windows install. I don't think Windows has its own package management for Python packages. I'd be totally surprised. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the name ``wheel''
I believe that the name "Wheel" was a reference to "reinventing the wheel". But I cannot find a quote to support this claim. I think the general sentiment was that it was the second attempt by the Python community to come up with a packaging format (first being Egg), and so they were reinventing the wheel, in a way. I cannot speak to the other question though: I don't know. This is however also a common practice on Linux, where Python is often installed in order to enable system tools, which, in turn, don't need a Python package manager to function. Not sure why this would be the case in MS Windows. On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 4:51 PM Johanne Fairchild via Python-list wrote: > > Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for > the extension WHL or is it really a name? > > Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come > with pip ready to run. I had to say > > python -m ensurepip > > and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't > the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you! > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
the name ``wheel''
Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for the extension WHL or is it really a name? Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come with pip ready to run. I had to say python -m ensurepip and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
