Re: New mailing list mirrors
Thanks tomer, I joined both through Google. Kirby "moe" Urner 4dsolutions.net/ocn/cp4e.html myspace.com/4dstudios [EMAIL PROTECTED] (moe rhymes with Minister of Education was my thinking -- a portfolio I sometimes grab for a gig, but always put back where I found it). On 6/10/07, sebulba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > I created two new google groups to mirror the activity of python-dev > and python-3000: > * http://groups.google.com/group/python-3000 > * http://groups.google.com/group/python-dev2 > > There are many mirrors out there, but none of them lets you post > to a thread. With google groups you can just hit "reply" on the > message you want to reply to, and that's it. No need to send an > email to the group (although you still need to register your email > with python mailing list). > > Supports searching, tree-view, list-view, fixed/proportional font, > tracking > of read/unread messages, etc. Enjoy. > > > -tomer > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list > >Support the Python Software Foundation: >http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] minimum age to learn python (a.k.a graphical vs text languages)
<< questions about others' experience >> > Is it no big deal either way? > > >thanks, > >Brian Blais Hi Brian -- Lego Mindstorms is popular in my neck of the woods (Silicon Forest -- Oregon), starting in middle school. I helped coach a team a few years ago. There's a tournament aspect, with the teams coming together around challenges. I frankly don't know if nqc is a permitted option -- it might be. On the Python side, I volunteered one day a week for about 8 weeks (then for a 2nd 8 weeks, with another group), teaching Python in a Portland public school to 8th graders. I didn't feel they were floundering or having any real trouble keeping up. I wasn't focusing on robotics or controlling an avatar or anything i.e. this experience was not designed to feed the Mindstorms teams. Given the Mindstorms groups tend to be after school, staffed by volunteer parents, the students attracted to them tend to be self selected on the basis of prior experience, self confidance around programming or whatever. My daughter has a kit since Christmas (she's in 7th grade) but hasn't joined a team because she's protective of her time, wants to play and do homework. Plus it's really only the Sony Aibo she cares about and I've never been able to afford one (her dad is not a money god unfortunately). I haven't pushed hard to teach her Python either, though I'm hoping she'll guinea pig (or hedge hog) some of my curriculum materials down the road (we were discussing that yesterday -- she could start by watching a few of my screencasts about Python, high rez versions). I think a typical scenario might be to join a team or form one, using the usual equipment, including Robolab, and then finding, within that group, a couple interested students who might be wanting to try a Linux/Python option. If you have other parents, they'd be candidate learners. If you attract some high schoolers, them too. I think middle school is sort of on the edge of where you'd start, and it's important to have a dynamic where the kids step forward at that level, don't feel pressured. Some type quite well (given all the instant messaging), others not, and lack of typing skills *is* a barrier to entry. Depending on the size of your original pool, you may well catalyze a few promising careers. The public school I mentioned is currently moving to a Scratch -> Alice track, still with the Mindstorms robotics option on the side, as an after school activity. I just talked to the computer teacher yesterday and he was reporting some rumor that future versions of Alice will center around the same Sims as in Sims, which my daughter plays with *a lot* (we also bought Civ City Rome yesterday, coincidentally, and she built Rome in a day). Arthur, a long time member of this list, had many strong reservations about Alice, which tended to become moot after Alice stopped being written in Python. I think he would have preferred like my Saturday Academy class, where I also teach Python, but using a very bare bones mathematical approach, no thick layer of someone else's design (just IDLE + VPython mostly these days, plus I admit to pre writing some py files -- we don't reinvent all of mathematics, me neither). I get a few middle schoolers in these classes, but only a couple, and usually already about two standard deviations in the college level direction. Kirby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] minimum age to learn python (a.k.a graphical vs text languages)
On 3/10/07, Andreas Raab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > kirby urner wrote: > > I just talked to the computer teacher yesterday and he > > was reporting some rumor that future versions of Alice will > > center around the same Sims as in Sims, which my daughter > > plays with *a lot* (we also bought Civ City Rome yesterday, > > coincidentally, and she built Rome in a day). > > More than rumor apparently: > > http://www.cmu.edu/cmnews/extra/060310_alice.html > > Cheers, > - Andreas Hey thanks! Fowarding to my daughter FYI. Kirby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: fclient project seeking co-coders
Another Urner, that's interesting. Not many of us. Kirby Urner Portland, Oregon USA On 10/28/07, Jürgen Urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello all, > > I Just recently registered a project fclient to sourceforge.net > [http://sourceforge.net/projects/fclient]. fclient is intended to > become desktop client for the freenet [freenetproject.org] > network written in python and Qt4. > > fclient is very alpha, in fact only parts of the freenet client > protocol > are curently implementated and loads of work ahead. But I would > appreciate very much finding interested co-coders to take part in the > project. > > Me, I am no professional coder, but an enthusiast with one or the > other year > of python (and Qt) experience. If interested in the project (and > freenet), feel free > to drop a mail to the users mailing list at the project page. > > > Have fun, Juergen > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list > > Support the Python Software Foundation: > http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] "do" as a keyword
> I find that when teaching beginning programmers, they usually think in > "until" terms, and not "while" terms. > If really beginning, an overview of this whole idea of control structures makes sense, such as this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_flow Then explain how Python is very minimalist in its approach, unlike some languages, which try to provide all kinds of control structure semantics, including multiple case loops (do... case... case...) which Python famously does not natively have either. > they find the "while" logic to be unintuitive, and I often find myself > feeling the same way: crafting it with the until logic, and then reversing > it. I wouldn't make "intuitive" the guiding light in all cases, as it's often just code for "conditioned reflex" or "what we're used to." Usually beginners outgrow their initial discomfort, like when learning to drive stick instead of automatic or whatever. Kirby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: newbie question: if var1 == var2:
It's the newline after each word that's messing you up.
var = "tree\n"
...
or
if item.strip() == var:
...
etc.
Kirby
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 7:47 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I dont understand why the following code never finds "tree".
> I could not find the answer in the Python tutorials.
> Here is the code, test43.in, and runtime:
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> fname = open("test43.in")
> var = 'tree'
>
> for item in fname:
>print "item: ", item,
>if item == var:
>print "found tree: ", item,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] work]$
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] work]$
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] work]$ cat test43.in
> car
> tree
> house
> pool
> dog
> cat
> wax
> candy bar
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] work]$ python test43.py
> item: car
> item: tree
> item: house
> item: pool
> item: dog
> item: cat
> item: wax
> item: candy bar
>
> Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list
>
>Support the Python Software Foundation:
>http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
>
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] teaching python using turtle module
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: << snip >> > Drunkard's Walk. > If our think tank (isepp.org) could have gotten permission, we'd have used that Monopoly guy (looks kinda like Planters peanut guy) randomly walking on like some chess board with a lamp post (reminds of Narnia). We don't have that kind of dough though, so just do this conceptually (conceptual art). >> Are there any other situations, using turtle, that these >> structures would be natural? > > Recent versions of TA contain stack instructions: push, pop, read, > clear. Your students might find it interesting to program Forth > instructions in TA or Python. This has practical applications in > implementing and porting virtual machines such as Parrot and the VMs > in Smalltalk and I-APL. > > There is plenty more where this came from. You would also be welcome > to adapt the Python source code for TA tiles to your environment. > I recall Alan Kay communicating Seymour Papert's sense that having "an explicit receiver" was an OK development. What he meant by that, in Smalltalk terms, is that the original Logo had what I'd call a "context turtle" in that FORWARD or RIGHT were w/r to a given Turtle one didn't need to mention explicitly, like what else could one mean? With Python and other object oriented implementations, one first gives birth to a turtle, creates an instance, as in: >>> someturtle = Turtle() That's binding a name to a turtle object (giving some turtle object a name) and then controlling said turtle through the API using dot notation against the name, e.g. someturtle.forward(10) or someturtle.right(90). What you get from this is, of course, the possibility of multiple turtles, each with its own pen color, visibility, other properties of self-hood. This gets showcased in the default demo (in Windows, just double click on turtle.py in the Lib subdirectory): http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157...@n00/4145780784/ (using Gregor's 3.1 code just minutes ago) IronPython also has access to the .NET turtle library: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mfoord/3104991233/ (not my computer) I suppose I'm only bringing this up to (a) name drop about being in a meeting with Alan Kay (with Guido and Mark Shuttleworth among others) and (b) to remind readers that Logo and turtle art, or the art of programming with turtles, are orthogonal axes. Logo as a language has also been extended considerably, as has the richness of the environment. Some of these are commercial, proprietary offerings. Some of these feature "spatial turtles" in a "turtle tank" i.e. each turtle is more like a biplane in a WWI dogfight (Snoopy vs. Red Baron), with all those extra degrees of freedom (roll, pitch, yaw). Python's turtle module is not, repeat not, an implementation of Logo in the Python language. It's an implementation of turtle graphics on a Tk canvas in the Python language. You'll also find a turtle module in wxPython such as in PythonCard by Kevin Altis. http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/turtle.html I think Gregor is right to see turtle.py as an easy way to implement an Objects First approach, consistent with a more generic approach to math concepts (vectors, polynomials, polyhedra) as objects (types), extending the OO rubric. We teach maths as extensible type systems that advance through the invention of new types, not just as systems evolving through a progression of proved theorems from fixed axioms. Kirby >> thanks, >> Brian Blais >> -- >> Brian Blais >> bbl...@bryant.edu >> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais >> >> >> >> ___ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> edu-...@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> >> > > > > -- > Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin > Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. > http://www.earthtreasury.org/ > ___ > Edu-sig mailing list > edu-...@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -- >>> from mars import math http://www.wikieducator.org/Martian_Math -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] teaching python using turtle module
I'm glad turtle graphics intersected my thinking re extended precision decimals (Decimal type) on edu-sig just now. I've updated my tmods.py to contain a turtle rendering the plane-net of a T-mod: http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/python/tmod.py (runnable source) http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157...@n00/4147429781/ (GUI view) Here's the graphical output: http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157...@n00/4148139184/in/photostream/ (Python 3.1) If you actually wanna fold the T, you need to snip off the cap and reverse it, per this diagram: http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f86515.html 120 of them, 60 folded left, 60 folded right, all of volume 1/24, make the volume 5 rhombic triacontahedron. http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f86419.html If you blow up the volume by 3/2, to 7.5, the radius becomes phi / sqrt(2) -- what we're showing with Decimals. The reason this seems unfamiliar is the unit of volume is the tetrahedron formed by any four equi-radiused balls in inter-tangency. I'm spinning this as Martian Math these days, yakking on math-thinking-l about it, learned it from Bucky Fuller, Dave Koski et al. Kirby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] teaching python using turtle module
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Gregor Lingl wrote: << fascinating code >> > > Hoping, you will find this a bit interesting, > best regards > > Gregor > Really enlightening, both mathematically and from a coding point of view. I hadn't used turtle.py enough yet to know about the built-in "context turtle" if you want to just say "forward" and forgo specifying a target. That's a nice Logo-ish touch. Your take on the T is most excellent. With your permission, I'd be happy to add both versions with attribution to my online version of tmod.py for the benefit of future students, and/or I could simply link to this post in the edu-sig archives (why not both?). Kirby -- >>> from mars import math http://www.wikieducator.org/Digital_Math -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] teaching python using turtle module
Gregor FYI: You'll find me linking to one Gregor in Vienna in this blog post, just beneath an archival photo of work by Alexander Graham Bell.[1] http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2009/12/meeting-with-sam.html ... providing more context and spin for this rhombic triancontahedron thread, all that much strong thanks to you. Kirby [1] Eber, Dorothy Harley. Genius At Work. about AGB is one of my fave syllabus entries, obscure and fun. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:52 PM, kirby urner wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Gregor Lingl wrote: > > << fascinating code >> > >> >> Hoping, you will find this a bit interesting, >> best regards >> >> Gregor >> > > Really enlightening, both mathematically and from a coding point of > view. I hadn't used turtle.py enough yet to know about the built-in > "context turtle" if you want to just say "forward" and forgo > specifying a target. That's a nice Logo-ish touch. > > Your take on the T is most excellent. > > With your permission, I'd be happy to add both versions with > attribution to my online version of tmod.py for the benefit of future > students, and/or I could simply link to this post in the edu-sig > archives (why not both?). > > Kirby > > > -- >>>> from mars import math > http://www.wikieducator.org/Digital_Math > -- >>> from mars import math http://www.wikieducator.org/Digital_Math -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] some turtle questions
Hi Brian -- If you wanna go to a lot of work, but not a huge amount, write wrapper class for the Standard Library turtle that intercepts its commands and updates an on-board data structure, representing pixels x pixels, specifying self position, keep color info stashed per each one. That's a lot of data, depending on screen resolution. Consider a thick line option if you have one, make your turtle "wide body". Or stay with thin. So then if you go turtle.forward(10) you will send it to your self-made forward method. Stop and smell the pixels, see what color was stashed there, either by another turtle (! -- shared data structure) or by this turtle, or maybe it's still the default untrammeled color. You can add new methods, like "glide" or "explode" that translate to the underlying turtle somehow -- use your imagination. Kirby On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Brian Blais wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to think of things to do with the turtle module with my > students, and I have some ideas where I am not sure whether the turtle > module can do it. > > 1) is there a way to determine the current screen pixel color? I am > thinking about having the turtle go forward until it reaches an object, say > a red circle. I can probably do this by making circle objects (drawn with > turtles themselves) which know their own position, and check against this > info. But I thought it might be useful also for the turtle to know. > > 2) is there a way to put a limit on the extent the turtle can travel? it > seems I can keep moving off of the screen. Is there a way to make it so > that a forward(50) command, at the edge, either raises an exception (at the > wall) or simply doesn't move the turtle because of the limit? > > > thanks! > > > bb > > -- > Brian Blais > bbl...@bryant.edu > http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais > http://bblais.blogspot.com/ > > > > > ___ > Edu-sig mailing list > edu-...@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir.
Perhaps rename Circle to Turtle and rewrite the circle-drawing expression as:
> c=Turtle(randint(-350,350),randint(-250,250),10,"red")
You are making progress with a wrapper class for the Standard Library turtle.
That's a well-known design pattern and a good way to get extra features
sometimes.
Kirby
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Brian Blais wrote:
> I'm on Python 2.5, but using the updated turtle.py Version 1.0.1 - 24. 9.
> 2009. The following script draws 5 circles, which it is supposed to, but
> then doesn't draw the second turtle which is supposed to simply move
> forward. Any ideas?
> from turtle import *
> from numpy.random import randint
> resetscreen()
> class Circle(object):
> def __init__(self,x,y,r,color):
> self.x=x
> self.y=y
> self.r=r
> self.color=color
>
> self.turtle=Turtle(visible=False)
> self.turtle.tracer(False)
> self.draw()
>
> def draw(self):
> self.turtle.penup()
> self.turtle.setposition(self.x,self.y)
> self.turtle.setheading(0)
> self.turtle.backward(self.r)
> self.turtle.pendown()
> self.turtle.fill(True)
> self.turtle.pencolor("black")
> self.turtle.fillcolor(self.color)
> self.turtle.circle(self.r)
> self.turtle.fill(False)
> self.turtle.penup()
>
> for i in range(5):
> c=Circle(randint(-350,350),randint(-250,250),10,"red")
>
>
> T=Turtle()
> T.forward(100)
> T.forward(100)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
> bb
> --
> Brian Blais
> bbl...@bryant.edu
> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
> http://bblais.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> ___
> Edu-sig mailing list
> edu-...@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>
>
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Vern Ceder wrote: > kirby urner wrote: >> >> I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir. > > The Turtle class is part of the turtle library, so that's not an issue. > Hey, good point Vern, not firing on all cylinders over here. So I just commented out the Circle loop, went straight to the Turtle part at the end. It works OK for me, even without the visible=True. I'm on Python 2.6 on Win7 and I took out the numpy randint in favor of random randint. turtle.py in lib_tk: # Version 1.0.1 - 24. 9. 2009 I'm maybe not the right beta tester though, as after I uncomment the circle loop, I just get an hour-glass on my Tk canvas and no drawing, no error message either, even with visible=True in the init. Not sure what that's about yet... Hey, I just found out about piratepad.net, another shared white board solution. Was helping a dude in Indonesia debug a VPython script just a moment ago, with variable names in Indonesian (Latin-1 spellings at least). I've appended what we're working on. [ on second thought, I'll spare ya ] Kirby >>> self.turtle=Turtle(visible=False) Does visibility *and* pen need to be controlled? Sorry for the basic question, but seems if pen is up... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Brian Blais wro > > I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir. > > > Turtle is given in turtle.py. I should have subclassed it, but I was being > lazy. :) > > thanks for the fast replies! > > > > bb > > > No obvious need to subclass. You weren't being lazy, I was being sloppy. I'm glad Vern caught my error right away. Kirby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Packages at Python.org
Good to hear from you sir. I've enjoying working with your modules and am getting some good results. I sent you a note off-list wondering how actively you might be supporting this valuable utility. Encouraging to find you here so quickly. Kirby On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: > kirby.ur...@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> With Microsoft abandoning Visual FoxPro come 2015, we have 100K >> developers >> jumping ship (rough guess), perhaps to dot NET, but not necessarily.** >> >> This page is potentially getting a lot of hits (I'm not privy to the >> analytics): >> >> http://packages.python.org/dbf/ >> > > The dbf package does not yet support index files. Normal indexes won't be > too hard to add in, but I have been unable to find the algorithms used to > create/work with compact index files. > > Does anybody know where I might find those? > > ~Ethan~ (author of said package) > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Combing Medusa's Hair... (Design Pattern)
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Kushal Kumaran wrote: << snip >> >> >> In this design pattern, you have something like a dry cleaner's, >> where people submit jobs at the counter, and go away right >> away with a ticket (Python returns -- but keeps running). When >> they come back is more up to them. Work has been done in >> the meantime (or not, if the queue is backed up). >> > > Isn't this the way people use queuing systems (ActiveMQ and the like)? > Or simply multiprocessing + Queue. > > -- > regards, > kushal > Yeah, that's probably right. This is more like a pedagogical metaphor, a mnemonic. As the name for a design pattern, it should probably be confined to Python examples, as that's where the wordplay on Medusa makes some sense, and not just because her hair was all snakes. http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/26771-twisted-medusa-zope Kirby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Edu-sig] [ANNC] pynguin-0.7 (python turtle graphics application)
2010/4/11 Lee Harr : > > Pynguin is a python-based turtle graphics application. > It combines an editor, interactive interpreter, and > graphics display area. > I like the idea of using turtles to plot graphs. Replacing graphing calculators with Python is easier when there are simple plot functions available (yes, I know about matplotlib, Sage...) Curious how much of the Standard Library turtle model gets used here. Is the turtle stuff all rewritten from scratch. Kirby -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
