Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Jorge Gustavo Rocha]

Hi,

1) I don't think QGIS.ORG was created to educate people. QGIS.ORG is
doing the job quite well and doesn't have to follow the latest fashion
trends.

2) If QGIS.ORG starts to educate people about environmental issues, the
next step will be about ethical, moral, gender, religion, etc, as we saw
in some emails. Should QGIS.ORG prevent alcoholic drinks (like beer) in
the events? Or unhealthy practices, like smoking or programming for a
couple of hours without regular intervals?

3) QGIS.ORG should follow the open source values and support the ones
that contribute to the project and should care about overall QGIS ecosystem.

3) Each of us have to decide if train is better, car sharing, walking,
etc, according to our own lives. Some might have young children, a sick
spouse or elder parents and prefer the plane instead of train.

4) QGIS.ORG should simple welcome and support the developers asking for
support. QGIS.ORG didn't ask about gender, religion, or anything else
before. So, I don't think we should start asking about eating habits and
so on. We will end up asking about the civil registration of the birth
of children or the spouse's medical record to be eligible for a plane
refund.

In summary, each of us needs his own "environmental policy". QGIS.ORG
doesn't have to have one.

See you soon in 's-Hertogenbosch!

Jorge Gustavo

On 16/01/20 11:21, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> Hi all,
> following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
> discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:
> 
> * do we need an explicit environmental policy?
> * probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
>   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
> extensive and structured use of remote connections?
>   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
>   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
> total travel?
>   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
> that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
>   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
> impact transportation?
>   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
> x times flight cost or duration
> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
> * do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
> Meetings?
> 
> I tried to collect options and ideas, please do not take these as my
> personal preferences.
> Given the wide interest and impact of this theme, I encourage an open
> and friendly discussion involving also non PSC members. Please be gentle.
> Following this I'll call for a vote on specific items.
> Cheers.
> 

J. Gustavo
-- 
Jorge Gustavo Rocha
Departamento de Informática
Universidade do Minho
4710-057 Braga
Gabinete 3.29 (Piso 3)
Tel: +351 253604480
Fax: +351 253604471
Móvel: +351 910333888
skype: nabocudnosor
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-psc] Environmental policy

[Nyall Dawson]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 21:20, Paolo Cavallini  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
> discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:

Upfront: Thank you Andreas and Paolo for kick-starting this
discussion. From the viewpoint of a resident of one of the countries
currently most affected by climate change, yet with one of the most
backward, short-sighted governments imaginable -- it's clearly NOT
going to be our governing bodies which will lead the war on climate
change. In my view it IS the responsibility of smaller groups like
QGIS to do whatever we possibly can to mitigate the change.

> * do we need an explicit environmental policy?

Why not? We do have some power here, in that we provide a desirable,
mature, well respected product. The QGIS project adopting an explicit
environmental policy (in whatever form that takes) does give a good
message to other projects and even to our users that this is a serious
issue.

> * probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
>   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
> extensive and structured use of remote connections?

Here's a point I'm stuck on. I strongly believe that these in-person
meetings are crucial for QGIS, and have gone a long way to promote the
growth, friendliness, and welcoming nature of the community. Removing
them **would** harm the QGIS project. It's been a number of years now
since I've been able to attend one in person, and I'm feeling the
disconnect from the community as a result.

I REALLY want to attend the Nodebo meetup/conference later this year,
but at the same time I'm consciously aware of how bad the impact of
the flight from Australia to Europe is (and there's zero alternative
options available for this). I'm honestly not sure what the right
choice for me to do is here...

Nyall





>   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
>   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
> total travel?
>   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
> that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
>   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
> impact transportation?
>   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
> x times flight cost or duration
> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
> * do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
> Meetings?
>
> I tried to collect options and ideas, please do not take these as my
> personal preferences.
> Given the wide interest and impact of this theme, I encourage an open
> and friendly discussion involving also non PSC members. Please be gentle.
> Following this I'll call for a vote on specific items.
> Cheers.
> --
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS.ORG Chair:
> http://planet.qgis.org/planet/user/28/tag/qgis%20board/
> ___
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Bo Victor Thomsen]

2 cents and 2 minor points:

 * One country's freedom fighters is another country's terrorists.
 * The EPSG in the CRS code is an acronym for "European *Petroleum*
   Survey Group"

Don't mix personal moral/ethics with licensing

--
Med venlig hilsen / Kind regards

Bo Victor Thomsen

Den 16-01-2020 kl. 20:05 skrev Andreas Neumann:

Hi,

Yes, I'd also like to focus on the original issue:

QGIS.ORG should only fund train tickets for short distance travels to 
QGIS contributor meetings (and come up with a definition what "short 
distance" means).


The other discussions about restricting usage of QGIS is a "can of 
worms". The world is not black and white and some substantial amount 
of FOSSGIS software originated from military backgrounds.


Andreas

Am 16.01.20 um 19:27 schrieb Even Rouault:

Regarding


prohibit the use of QGIS to the fossil-fuels industry.

and


...may I suggest to add GLOBAL PEACE & WAR issues to this QGIS
discussion on environmental questions ?

That's not a good idea IHMO. Don't mix licensing & ethics. Free software
licenses explicitly don't discriminate against fields of endehavor 
(see clause
6 of https://opensource.org/osd-annotated ), and adding 
discrimination is
currently generally considered as being a bad idea and likely not 
enforcable
in most juridictions, although they are debates around attempts at 
having

ethical open source licensing
(https://medium.com/@gmcgath/the-futility-of-the-hippocratic-license-b6a9ad981dec). 



Things can get really complex. For example, regarding prohibiting the 
use to
the fossil-fuels industry, what about car makers: should they be 
considered as
being part of the fossil-fuel industry, and thus prohibited from 
using the
software and thus using proprietary mapping solution instead, etc 
etc. (Open
Source) licensing is (or is perceived to be) a sufficiently complex 
topic

already to not complicate it further.

Personal note: my contributions to FOSS4G related software all 
started because
I was able to use them in the context of working in the defense 
industry in my
past life: is it about peace or war ? both, depending from the point 
of view.


I should also remind, that for good or worse, the EPSG database that is
critical to proper CRS management in our software is mostly 
maintained by

IOGP.

The world is complex.

Even


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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Andreas Neumann]

Hi,

Yes, I'd also like to focus on the original issue:

QGIS.ORG should only fund train tickets for short distance travels to 
QGIS contributor meetings (and come up with a definition what "short 
distance" means).


The other discussions about restricting usage of QGIS is a "can of 
worms". The world is not black and white and some substantial amount of 
FOSSGIS software originated from military backgrounds.


Andreas

Am 16.01.20 um 19:27 schrieb Even Rouault:

Regarding


prohibit the use of QGIS to the fossil-fuels industry.

and


...may I suggest to add GLOBAL PEACE & WAR issues to this QGIS
discussion on environmental questions ?

That's not a good idea IHMO. Don't mix licensing & ethics. Free software
licenses explicitly don't discriminate against fields of endehavor (see clause
6 of https://opensource.org/osd-annotated ), and adding discrimination is
currently generally considered as being a bad idea and likely not enforcable
in most juridictions, although they are debates around attempts at having
ethical open source licensing
(https://medium.com/@gmcgath/the-futility-of-the-hippocratic-license-b6a9ad981dec).

Things can get really complex. For example, regarding prohibiting the use to
the fossil-fuels industry, what about car makers: should they be considered as
being part of the fossil-fuel industry, and thus prohibited from using the
software and thus using proprietary mapping solution instead, etc etc. (Open
Source) licensing is (or is perceived to be) a sufficiently complex topic
already to not complicate it further.

Personal note: my contributions to FOSS4G related software all started because
I was able to use them in the context of working in the defense industry in my
past life: is it about peace or war ? both, depending from the point of view.

I should also remind, that for good or worse, the EPSG database that is
critical to proper CRS management in our software is mostly maintained by
IOGP.

The world is complex.

Even


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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 16/01/20 19:27, Even Rouault ha scritto:

> The world is complex.

thanks Even
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS.ORG Chair:
http://planet.qgis.org/planet/user/28/tag/qgis%20board/
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Even Rouault]

Regarding

> prohibit the use of QGIS to the fossil-fuels industry.

and

> ...may I suggest to add GLOBAL PEACE & WAR issues to this QGIS
> discussion on environmental questions ?

That's not a good idea IHMO. Don't mix licensing & ethics. Free software 
licenses explicitly don't discriminate against fields of endehavor (see clause 
6 of https://opensource.org/osd-annotated ), and adding discrimination is 
currently generally considered as being a bad idea and likely not enforcable 
in most juridictions, although they are debates around attempts at having 
ethical open source licensing
(https://medium.com/@gmcgath/the-futility-of-the-hippocratic-license-b6a9ad981dec).

Things can get really complex. For example, regarding prohibiting the use to 
the fossil-fuels industry, what about car makers: should they be considered as 
being part of the fossil-fuel industry, and thus prohibited from using the 
software and thus using proprietary mapping solution instead, etc etc. (Open 
Source) licensing is (or is perceived to be) a sufficiently complex topic 
already to not complicate it further.

Personal note: my contributions to FOSS4G related software all started because 
I was able to use them in the context of working in the defense industry in my 
past life: is it about peace or war ? both, depending from the point of view.

I should also remind, that for good or worse, the EPSG database that is 
critical to proper CRS management in our software is mostly maintained by 
IOGP.

The world is complex.

Even

-- 
Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
http://www.spatialys.com
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Falk Huettmann]

Dear Kind Colleagues,
...may I suggest to add GLOBAL PEACE & WAR issues to this QGIS
discussion on environmental questions ?

Arguably, ArcGIS was part-created and promoted by the U.S. military,
industry etc.
and recent drone applications all rely on GIS work either way.
Any public development on 'mapping' will directly affect those subjects
(see here for instance for an example of hidden double-development
https://www.icarus.mpg.de/en ).

One cannot separate out those topics from the environment and
sustainability, or a better lifestyle.

And yes,
 most people spend rather their times with bunnies and donkeys than with
tigers and predators  (try it out for yourself if in doubt).

Kindly from Alaska
   Falk Huettmann

PS A typical example how this all is connected,  and for the role of GIS
sits in the Himalaya where glacier mapping and river maps relate
to food security (rice) and warfare, e.g. Afghanistan. Entire drug wars are
relying on such a 'recci'.
Other examples are found with submarines etc.


On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 2:20 AM Paolo Cavallini 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
> discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:
>
> * do we need an explicit environmental policy?
> * probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
>   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
> extensive and structured use of remote connections?
>   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
>   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
> total travel?
>   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
> that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
>   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
> impact transportation?
>   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
> x times flight cost or duration
> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
> * do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
> Meetings?
>
> I tried to collect options and ideas, please do not take these as my
> personal preferences.
> Given the wide interest and impact of this theme, I encourage an open
> and friendly discussion involving also non PSC members. Please be gentle.
> Following this I'll call for a vote on specific items.
> Cheers.
> --
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS.ORG Chair:
> http://planet.qgis.org/planet/user/28/tag/qgis%20board/
> ___
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Build failed on Azure CI, how to get details

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi René-Luc,

On Wed, 15. Jan 2020 at 15:29:04 +0100, René-Luc Dhont wrote:
> My PRs https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/33813 and
> https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/33725 failed to build on Azure CI.
> 
> The build log is minimalistic :

As it is uploaded to cdash.

> How to get details when the build failed ?

On cdash.  I suppose it was yesterdays:

https://cdash.orfeo-toolbox.org/buildSummary.php?buildid=26722

There's also a link to cdash above the quoted log.


Jürgen

-- 
Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Nordenhttps://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on FreeNode


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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi all.

Il 16/01/20 14:39, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:

>>    * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
>> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
>> x times flight cost or duration
> We don't want a lot of bureaucracy or a "travel police" ;-) we should
> trust on common sense and the good will of our participants. I think
> most QGIS people are environmentally sensitive anyway.

I don't understand this. The question was (sorry if unclear):
should we only reimburse train travel, whathever the cost and the
duration, or this should be done until a certain difference?
e.g. (numbers made up)
train 10 h, 100 € | flight 8 h, 80 € > train
train 20 h, 300 € | flight 23 h, 50 € > flight

>> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
>> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
>> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
> 
> No. Definitely no donations from our donations. That's not the purpose
> of QGIS.ORG.

again, I was probably unclear. the purpose of QGIS.ORG is certainly to
provide the best GIS tools to everyone. as a direct contribution towards
a more sustainable planet we could donate tools especially useful to
plan and reduce impacts.

Cheers.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS.ORG Chair:
http://planet.qgis.org/planet/user/28/tag/qgis%20board/
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Andreas Neumann]

Hi,

I am also adding my personal preferences down here, but I fear this 
whole discussion will be a bit difficult to summarize.


Am 16.01.20 um 12:21 schrieb Paolo Cavallini:

Hi all,
following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:

* do we need an explicit environmental policy?


not sure we really need one. But maybe add a section somewhere on the 
website, just 1-2 paragraphs/sentences should be enough.



* probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings


yes - and the downloads of QGIS and our server infrastructure. But 
Hetzner already uses green energy (no fossil, no nuclear).



   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
extensive and structured use of remote connections?

I think the in person meetings are still useful.

   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?


Not sure - but something to discuss. Maybe we could have one 
international meeting per year and then another local one organized by 
country user groups or several user groups together.




   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
total travel?


That would be ideal - but maybe not so easy to achieve. We need 
volunteers. Often we do not have a choice but have to be lucky to find a 
volunteer to organize a meeting.



   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?


maybe, or one international meeting per year, and one more local one to 
complement that - see above?



   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
impact transportation?


How about: gently push. And have the policy that we only reimburse train 
tickets for short distances (to be defined what a short distance means).


But this only for travels that are reimbursed by QGIS.ORG. If the 
participant pay everything by himself, then we can only suggest a travel 
mode.



   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
x times flight cost or duration
We don't want a lot of bureaucracy or a "travel police" ;-) we should 
trust on common sense and the good will of our participants. I think 
most QGIS people are environmentally sensitive anyway.

* do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it


No. Definitely no donations from our donations. That's not the purpose 
of QGIS.ORG.



* do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
Meetings?


Only recommend local meeting organizers to also have a focus on our 
environmental impacts. What that means is often best known by the locals.


Thanks for picking up this discussion,

Andreas

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Werner Macho]

Hi all,

>From a unfortunately long time not attending to hackfests participant I am
also in favour to reduce to once a year - and the idea of combining it with
user meetings is nice as well.
The Licence "issue" - to be honest they would use it anyway .. but as a
message it would be ok (but that would reduce "opensource" to just "source"
too for me).

Personally I see train tickets a lot more expensive than flight tickets and
I think that should change - otherwise I would prefer a train journey
anyway.

Hope to see you all again sometime.

regards
Werner

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:56 PM Tim Sutton  wrote:

> Hi
>
> On 16 Jan 2020, at 11:52, Alessandro Pasotti  wrote:
>
>
> Hi Paolo,
>
> thank you for bringing this on.
>
> Here is my very personal opinion:
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:20 PM Paolo Cavallini 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
>> discussion about QGIS.ORG  environmental policy:
>>
>> * do we need an explicit environmental policy?
>>
>
> yes
>
> * probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
>>   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
>> extensive and structured use of remote connections?
>>
>
> we do need in person meetings
>
>   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
>>
>
> ideally, yes
>
>   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
>> total travel?
>>
>
> yes
>
>   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
>> that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
>>
>
> no
>
>   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
>> impact transportation?
>>
>
> gently push
>
>   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
>> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
>> x times flight cost or duration
>>
>
> no
>
>
>> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
>> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
>> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
>>
>
> not sure
>
> * do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
>> Meetings?
>>
>
> maybe vegetarian
>
>
> +1 from me for everything above (besides wondering if we could meet once a
> year).
>
>
>
> I know it's just a dream and it won't go anywhere but I would add an item
> to the list: prohibit the use of QGIS to the fossil-fuels industry.
> It would be a strong message btw.
>
>
> Interesting idea! Also opens the whole ’should we control our own license’
> debate again…..
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alessandro Pasotti
> w3:   www.itopen.it
> ___
> QGIS-Developer mailing list
> QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
>
> —
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tim Sutton*
>
> *Co-founder:* Kartoza
> *Ex Project chair:* QGIS.org
>
> Visit http://kartoza.com to find out about open source:
>
> Desktop GIS programming services
> Geospatial web development
> GIS Training
> Consulting Services
>
> *Skype*: timlinux
> *IRC:* timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net
>
> I'd love to connect. Here's my calendar link
>  to make finding time easy.
>
> ___
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Tim Sutton]

Hi

> On 16 Jan 2020, at 11:52, Alessandro Pasotti  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Paolo,
> 
> thank you for bringing this on.
> 
> Here is my very personal opinion:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:20 PM Paolo Cavallini  > wrote:
> Hi all,
> following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
> discussion about QGIS.ORG  environmental policy:
> 
> * do we need an explicit environmental policy?
>  
> yes 
> 
> * probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
>   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
> extensive and structured use of remote connections?
> 
> we do need in person meetings
> 
>   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
> 
> ideally, yes
> 
>   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
> total travel?
> 
> yes
> 
>   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
> that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
> 
> no
> 
>   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
> impact transportation?
> 
> gently push
> 
>   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
> x times flight cost or duration
> 
> no
>  
> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
> 
> not sure
> 
> * do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
> Meetings?
> 
> maybe vegetarian

+1 from me for everything above (besides wondering if we could meet once a 
year).

>  
> 
> I know it's just a dream and it won't go anywhere but I would add an item to 
> the list: prohibit the use of QGIS to the fossil-fuels industry.
> It would be a strong message btw.

Interesting idea! Also opens the whole ’should we control our own license’ 
debate again…..

Regards

Tim



> 
> 
> -- 
> Alessandro Pasotti
> w3:   www.itopen.it 
> ___
> QGIS-Developer mailing list
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

—









Tim Sutton

Co-founder: Kartoza
Ex Project chair: QGIS.org

Visit http://kartoza.com  to find out about open source:

Desktop GIS programming services
Geospatial web development
GIS Training
Consulting Services

Skype: timlinux 
IRC: timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net

I'd love to connect. Here's my calendar link  to 
make finding time easy.

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Alessandro Pasotti]

Hi Paolo,

thank you for bringing this on.

Here is my very personal opinion:

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:20 PM Paolo Cavallini 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
> discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:
>
> * do we need an explicit environmental policy?
>

yes

* probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
>   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
> extensive and structured use of remote connections?
>

we do need in person meetings

  * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
>

ideally, yes

  * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
> total travel?
>

yes

  * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
> that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
>

no

  * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
> impact transportation?
>

gently push

  * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
> x times flight cost or duration
>

no


> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
>

not sure

* do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
> Meetings?
>

maybe vegetarian


I know it's just a dream and it won't go anywhere but I would add an item
to the list: prohibit the use of QGIS to the fossil-fuels industry.
It would be a strong message btw.


-- 
Alessandro Pasotti
w3:   www.itopen.it
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Tim Sutton]

Hi

I am glad we have so many bunny huggers in our community. The weird thing about 
in-person meetings is how it dedicates and focusses people’s time and attention 
which I could never replicate as a remote participant in these kind of event. 
Maybe my donkey needs feeding or my wife wants me to stop ignoring her if I am 
sitting at home staring at the screen. If I am there in person, suddenly the 
donkey gets fed by someone else and my wife seems to not mind that I am 
ignoring her for a few days. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5KgUXSD1QX5om7TSA 
 <- donkey looking pleased I am 
not at a hack fest

Something more efficient would be to condense our twice yearly get togethers 
into once a year, longer meeting. We would in a single swoop half the 
environmental travel cost from our project and maybe still benefit from that 
oh-so-important face to face time.

And combining it with the user conference would mean that we can have a two 
tribes event, with a nice mingling of users and contributors.

I am so glad we are discussing this…

Regards

Tim

> On 16 Jan 2020, at 11:44, Raymond Nijssen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paolo,
> 
> Good point! Or many good points actually.
> 
> For both the environment and inclusiveness we could think about having a more 
> decentralized approach for the contributor meetings. Since most developers 
> are living in Europe, meetings are in Europe, which attracts more European 
> developers etc. That loop needs a *break*. And of course the pollution of 
> traveling is there, especially from attendees living far away.
> 
> So I was thinking of a 3-day 24/7 hackfest. From several, somehow digitally 
> interconnected, places.
> 
> Would miss all the hugging though! :'(
> 
> Cheers,
> Raymond
> 
> 
> 
> Terglobo
> Fahrenheitstraat 1
> 5223 BJ 's-Hertogenbosch
> The Netherlands
> +31 (0) 6 25 31 49 83
> 
> On 16-01-2020 12:21, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
>> discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:
>> * do we need an explicit environmental policy?
>> * probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
>>   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
>> extensive and structured use of remote connections?
>>   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
>>   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
>> total travel?
>>   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
>> that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
>>   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
>> impact transportation?
>>   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
>> method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
>> x times flight cost or duration
>> * do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
>> to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
>> reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
>> * do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
>> Meetings?
>> I tried to collect options and ideas, please do not take these as my
>> personal preferences.
>> Given the wide interest and impact of this theme, I encourage an open
>> and friendly discussion involving also non PSC members. Please be gentle.
>> Following this I'll call for a vote on specific items.
>> Cheers.
> ___
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> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer 
> 
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer 
> 
—









Tim Sutton

Co-founder: Kartoza
Ex Project chair: QGIS.org

Visit http://kartoza.com  to find out about open source:

Desktop GIS programming services
Geospatial web development
GIS Training
Consulting Services

Skype: timlinux 
IRC: timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net

I'd love to connect. Here's my calendar link  to 
make finding time easy.

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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Raymond Nijssen]

Hi Paolo,

Good point! Or many good points actually.

For both the environment and inclusiveness we could think about having a 
more decentralized approach for the contributor meetings. Since most 
developers are living in Europe, meetings are in Europe, which attracts 
more European developers etc. That loop needs a *break*. And of course 
the pollution of traveling is there, especially from attendees living 
far away.


So I was thinking of a 3-day 24/7 hackfest. From several, somehow 
digitally interconnected, places.


Would miss all the hugging though! :'(

Cheers,
Raymond



Terglobo
Fahrenheitstraat 1
5223 BJ 's-Hertogenbosch
The Netherlands
+31 (0) 6 25 31 49 83

On 16-01-2020 12:21, Paolo Cavallini wrote:

Hi all,
following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:

* do we need an explicit environmental policy?
* probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
   * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
extensive and structured use of remote connections?
   * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
   * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
total travel?
   * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
   * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
impact transportation?
   * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
x times flight cost or duration
* do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
* do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
Meetings?

I tried to collect options and ideas, please do not take these as my
personal preferences.
Given the wide interest and impact of this theme, I encourage an open
and friendly discussion involving also non PSC members. Please be gentle.
Following this I'll call for a vote on specific items.
Cheers.


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[QGIS-Developer] Environmental policy

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi all,
following the interesting proposal by Andreas, I'm here starting a
discussion about QGIS.ORG environmental policy:

* do we need an explicit environmental policy?
* probably our greatest impact is travel for Developers Meetings
  * do we need in person general meetings, or we can promote more
extensive and structured use of remote connections?
  * if we need it, do we need two meetings per year?
  * do we want to plan our meetings in an optimal location, to minimize
total travel?
  * do we want a combination between the two: smaller local meetings
that reduce travel, coordinated across the globe?
  * do we want to suggest|gently push|require participants to use low
impact transportation?
  * do we want a cap on cost and time difference between transportation
method? e.g. train is to be used when cost or duration are no more than
x times flight cost or duration
* do we want to engage in proactive environmental actions? e.g. donating
to the environmental agencies|NGOs|etc. specific tools to evaluate and
reduce impact? e.g. a QGIS ad hoc grant with a specific budget for it
* do we want additional actions? e.g. low impact (vegan) diet on Dev
Meetings?

I tried to collect options and ideas, please do not take these as my
personal preferences.
Given the wide interest and impact of this theme, I encourage an open
and friendly discussion involving also non PSC members. Please be gentle.
Following this I'll call for a vote on specific items.
Cheers.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS.ORG Chair:
http://planet.qgis.org/planet/user/28/tag/qgis%20board/
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Build failed on Azure CI, how to get details

[René-Luc Dhont]

Hi Devs,

Is the Azure CI mandatory before merging ?

Regards,
René-Luc

Le 15/01/2020 à 15:29, René-Luc Dhont a écrit :

Hi Dev,

My PRs https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/33813 and 
https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/33725 failed to build on Azure CI.


The build log is minimalistic :

2020-01-15T10:12:39.7333036Z Build project
2020-01-15T10:12:39.7350985ZEach symbol represents 1024 bytes of output.
2020-01-15T10:12:39.7351096Z'!' represents an error and '*' a warning.
2020-01-15T10:21:19.1415558Z 
.*  Size: 49K
2020-01-15T10:36:14.5224541Z 
..*...  Size: 99K
2020-01-15T10:49:37.5635400Z 
...*..  Size: 149K
2020-01-15T10:58:23.4653034Z 
**  Size: 199K
2020-01-15T11:07:34.3517006Z 
.*...*..**...*** Size of output: 248K
2020-01-15T11:07:34.4586592Z Error(s) when building project
2020-01-15T11:07:34.4586766Z1 Compiler errors
2020-01-15T11:07:34.4587572Z56 Compiler warnings
2020-01-15T11:07:34.7983476Z [0/1] cmd.exe /C "cd /D D:\a\1\s\ms-windows\osgeo4w\build-qgis-dev-x86 
&& "C:\Program Files\CMake\bin\ctest.exe" -D ExperimentalSubmit"
2020-01-15T11:07:34.8127277ZSite: azure-pipelines
2020-01-15T11:07:34.8127629ZBuild name: PR 33813 / master (1138) 
(d88e9cbd97) (qgis-dev Experimental x86)
2020-01-15T11:07:34.8147167Z Submit files
2020-01-15T11:07:34.8147322ZSend to track: Experimental
2020-01-15T11:07:34.8147841Z
SubmitURL:https://cdash.orfeo-toolbox.org/submit.php?project=QGIS
2020-01-15T11:07:36.9734255ZUploaded: 
D:/a/1/s/ms-windows/osgeo4w/build-qgis-dev-x86/Testing/20200115-1012/Build.xml
2020-01-15T11:07:37.4788307ZUploaded: 
D:/a/1/s/ms-windows/osgeo4w/build-qgis-dev-x86/Testing/20200115-1012/Done.xml
2020-01-15T11:07:37.4789266ZSubmission successful
2020-01-15T11:07:37.4891009Z build failed
2020-01-15T11:07:37.4896897Z BUILD ERROR 0: Wed 01/15/2020 11:07:37.47
2020-01-15T11:07:37.9186422Z ##[error]Cmd.exe exited with code '1'.
2020-01-15T11:07:38.0958787Z ##[section]Finishing: Building QGIS
How to get details when the build failed ?

Thanks

René-Luc




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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Error due to possible Qgis dependency

[Alessandro Pasotti]

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 10:50 PM Pedro Peixoto 
wrote:

> To the Qgis developer community,
>
> I am part of a team that develops a standalone software for Windows that
> encountered a critical error involving the Qgis software.
> The software, called "Hera", is developed in Python and currently uses
> PyQgis. The problem is that Hera works on all computers that have Qgis
> installed, but only on some computers that don't have Qgist installed.
> While trying to install it in a computer that has never had Qgis installed,
> a critical error is given when we try to open the now installed program.
> The error message displayed is as follows: "Failed to execute script Hera"
> (as can be seen in the image, available in the link below). Every
> dependency that I could think of that could influence the installation was
> previously installed, such as all the possible Microsoft visual studio C++
> packages, as listed below:
> - Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable for Visual Studio 2008, 2013, 2015,
> 2017 and 2019.
> To test that the problem was truly due to the lack of some missing Qgis
> dependency, we created a machine on the AWS Amazon server and tried to
> install the software, as well as the  Microsoft visual studio C++ packages
> and the previously mentioned error was given. Only after installing Qgis on
> the machine was the Hera program successfully launched. However, after
> uninstalling Qgis on the same machine, the Hera program continued to run
> successfully, indicating to us that the source of the problem might be
> because of some dependency or configuration that Qgis does while
> installing.
> Since PyQgis does not offer some kind of logging or error message showing
> the user whats could possibly be missing, I was wondering if anyone could
> offer me some insight into what it might be. I appreciate the help, thank
> you.
>
> Link to the error message image:
> http://psr.me/1ayvzfn
>
> --
> Pedro R. Peixoto
> PSR
> www.psr-inc.com
> Tel.: +55 21 3906.2100
>   
> 
>


Hi, it's hard to tell, did you try to run dependency walker on the
installed DLLs ?


-- 
Alessandro Pasotti
w3:   www.itopen.it
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