Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. The Atom was a fine machine, with a fast (if unusual) basic. *#*Snip#*# I though it ran BBC Basic, which was inferior but similar to SuperBASIC? BBC Basic was ... is ... capable of being very structured. With a lot of hooks in to the hardware side of the processor being used. I prefer SuperBASIC, though, for its elegance, if used that way of course. I remember sending endless long sequences of VDU code bytes to the video hardware, a kind of poke except that you were sending register values. VDU 23,8202;8,4,2,1. (random numbers only!) Does that bring back memories Malcolm? And is the Archimedes basic anything like BBC Basic? Then I remember the Z88 also used BBC Basic, though the big hardware differences meant most basic programs with any degree of hardware access stood little chances of success. I also have vague memories of writing programs in COMAL for a while, which was also like an even more structured BASIC. Yes, the VDU command is one of the powerful commands that give direct access to processor and video features. I used BBC Basic a lot for computer control software, because there is a built in User Port to access external devices, via an interface board of some type. The Archimedes series has BBC Basic built in too, with more features. Then the RISC OS series followed on afterwards. COMAL and FORTRAN were the commercially used programming languages.; and are still used I believe for a lot of legacy work. Not sure about new programming projects though. Now that Visual basic, Visual C, Java, etc, have become widely available. Basically ... :-) ... once you have the feel of the Basic syntax and structure it is relatively easy to use any successive version that comes along. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Derek Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes And you can get a BBC Interpreter for the PC... Derek I used to use a very good one for the 186, 286 and 386 early PC's, as this was the easiest way to do computer control projects at the time. I don't know what is available now for Win 95/98, Win XP, Vista, etc. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
IIRC Atom basic was an unstructured basic, fast, but with listingshard to follow because they were peppered with keyword abbreviations, pokes and symbols. There may have been similarities with BBC BASIC, but without the structures. Are you sure that wasnt just your code then, Dilwyn? ;o) Per Drat, I've been rumbled again :-)) -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. The Atom was a fine machine, with a fast (if unusual) basic. *#*Snip#*# I though it ran BBC Basic, which was inferior but similar to SuperBASIC? BBC Basic was ... is ... capable of being very structured. With a lot of hooks in to the hardware side of the processor being used. I prefer SuperBASIC, though, for its elegance, if used that way of course. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. The Atom was a fine machine, with a fast (if unusual) basic. *#*Snip#*# I though it ran BBC Basic, which was inferior but similar to SuperBASIC? BBC Basic was ... is ... capable of being very structured. With a lot of hooks in to the hardware side of the processor being used. I prefer SuperBASIC, though, for its elegance, if used that way of course. I remember sending endless long sequences of VDU code bytes to the video hardware, a kind of poke except that you were sending register values. VDU 23,8202;8,4,2,1. (random numbers only!) Does that bring back memories Malcolm? And is the Archimedes basic anything like BBC Basic? Then I remember the Z88 also used BBC Basic, though the big hardware differences meant most basic programs with any degree of hardware access stood little chances of success. I also have vague memories of writing programs in COMAL for a while, which was also like an even more structured BASIC. -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
And you can get a BBC Interpreter for the PC... Derek Dilwyn Jones wrote: Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. The Atom was a fine machine, with a fast (if unusual) basic. *#*Snip#*# I though it ran BBC Basic, which was inferior but similar to SuperBASIC? BBC Basic was ... is ... capable of being very structured. With a lot of hooks in to the hardware side of the processor being used. I prefer SuperBASIC, though, for its elegance, if used that way of course. I remember sending endless long sequences of VDU code bytes to the video hardware, a kind of poke except that you were sending register values. VDU 23,8202;8,4,2,1. (random numbers only!) Does that bring back memories Malcolm? And is the Archimedes basic anything like BBC Basic? Then I remember the Z88 also used BBC Basic, though the big hardware differences meant most basic programs with any degree of hardware access stood little chances of success. I also have vague memories of writing programs in COMAL for a while, which was also like an even more structured BASIC. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1661 - Release Date: 9/9/2008 04:58 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On 7 Sep 2008, at 17:24, Malcolm Cadman wrote: Does anyone know the specification of the Intel 1.66Ghz Atom ? Is it a RISC based chip, from the collaboration with the Cambridge based RISC company ? Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. Hi Malcolm, The Intel Atom is essentially an x86 architecture machine with 512K cache and 45nm fab; it consumes 2.5W and supports hyperthreading; dual core designs are possible. My Acer isn't the HD model, and it's not noisy in operation. The Eee 701 used the fan more often. Some Acer models were flashed with a buggy BIOS that caused the fan to remain on when not required, this may have affected some reviews. The Acorn Atom predated the QL by 3 years and was one of the last computers marketed to the mainstream as a kit. Nice bit of hardware, too, for the era. Richard Hi Richard, Ah ... I can see why it being used for this application. So, the Acer is fine in operation, then ? I think that I may even have an Acorn Atom somewhere, because I was given a lot of old Acorn / Archimedes equipment not too long, by a friend who was re-locating. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. The Atom was a fine machine, with a fast (if unusual) basic. Those were the days for home computers you remember, unlike modern machines which quickly sink into obscurity. -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi, I think that Richard has put his finger on it here ... where is the value ? The price point of a mini-laptop has to much lower than a standard laptop, the latter are now offering good value at the lower end of the price range circa £300 to £400. It is though going to be interesting what will get produced in the coming one or two years as this sector of the market expands further. At present, the Acer at around £229 seems the best value and be very useable as a portable, dual platform, etc. Reports say that it is a bit noisy in operation, and has an odd arrangement of the touchpad control. Hence, the other rivals of the Eee PC new top end models, and the MSI Wind; are a bit more slick, yet more costly. You get wireless networking, bluetooth and ethernet with many of these models too. Therefore rivalling the specification of a standard laptop. Does anyone know the specification of the Intel 1.66Ghz Atom ? Is it a RISC based chip, from the collaboration with the Cambridge based RISC company ? Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. On 6 Sep 2008, at 19:47, Dilwyn Jones wrote: From what you've said, it seems that the cheaper systems aren't much good for regular use. What about someone like me who has an occasional need for a portable QL away from home, where weight and small size might be important? Or would I be better off (even for occasional light use) to save my pennies and wait until I can afford a more expensive machine? Or would you go as far as to say that I'd be better off with a traditional laptop PC? The Acer is £199 with 8GB and £229 with 120GB. It's 1024 x 600, 1.6GHz and fully capable of running Windows XP or various flavours of Linux. What I'm saying is that for the saving for the very cheapest machines - £169 for the Maplin, or the Eee 701 - the Acer represents the genuinely lowest price point you will get something useful at. The 800 x 480 screen on the 701 is limiting for modern web browsing (though I reckon it would be fine for an emulated QL environment; it looked fantastic running Atari 800 emulators), the Maplin's insanely limited CPU (not just performance, but third-party support) - for the sake of a £40 saving? Not worth it. Likewise, if you wanted to add a memory card, the Acer has an SD card slot to expand the built in storage AND a memory card reader; and buying SD cards for the Maplin to go from 2GB to 8GB would eat up a reasonable amount of the cost saving too. The instant you cross into the £300 needed for the MSI Wind or upmarket Eee models, then you can get a dual core 13 laptop from Currys or elsewhere for £280ish. Unless you REALLY want the tiny form factor, it's not worth the effort. I certainly don't think you should save your pennies if all you want is occasional light use and are already interested in this class of machine; I just think you should not spend more than £200 (I count the extra £29 for the 120GB version of the Acer as a very cheap extra memory card I'd have bought anyway - it's less than I paid for the no- name brand 16GB SDHC card I use) and should get the absolute best specification you can for that money. The Elonex One - the mooted £100 laptop - is more interesting as the One+ with 256MB RAM and 2GB SSD, but it's still 800 x 480, 300MHz weird 'barely supported' CPU, and in that form costs £119. Another few quid for a decent capacity SD card, and you're into 1.6GHz Atom territory. Commodore brand have just announced one, too. It's £325, which is already insane given the current marketplace, and uses of all things the VIA C7-M CPU, which is basically a Cyrix. Anyone who remembers Cyrix back in the Pentium days will already have shudders running down their spines, but the truth is, the C7-M is chosen for battery life; Intel have leapfrogged them AND don't need to cripple the CPU's performance to do it. Richard -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 7 Sep 2008, at 17:24, Malcolm Cadman wrote: Does anyone know the specification of the Intel 1.66Ghz Atom ? Is it a RISC based chip, from the collaboration with the Cambridge based RISC company ? Also, the Atom name, was once used for a British made computer called the Acorn Atom - back in 1980's . the era of the first QL machines too. Hi Malcolm, The Intel Atom is essentially an x86 architecture machine with 512K cache and 45nm fab; it consumes 2.5W and supports hyperthreading; dual core designs are possible. My Acer isn't the HD model, and it's not noisy in operation. The Eee 701 used the fan more often. Some Acer models were flashed with a buggy BIOS that caused the fan to remain on when not required, this may have affected some reviews. The Acorn Atom predated the QL by 3 years and was one of the last computers marketed to the mainstream as a kit. Nice bit of hardware, too, for the era. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Right now in the states there is a retail chain selling a Compaq laptop, Intel dual core, 2 giggles ram, 160giggles HD, 15.4 screen, Wireless and Vista, US $ is $430, thats about 245 of your pounds. This is being mentioned for comparison purposes -- Paul Holmgren Mine: 2 57 300-C's in Indy Hers: 05 PT GT R/T HO Hoosier Corps L#6 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Paul Holmgren wrote: Right now in the states there is a retail chain selling a Compaq laptop, Intel dual core, 2 giggles ram, 160giggles HD, 15.4 screen, Wireless and Vista, US $ is $430, thats about 245 of your pounds. This is being mentioned for comparison purposes This is exactly the kind of comparison I was hinting at. I have a conventional Windows laptop of reasonable spec already, but fancied a small and light notebook to carry around with me when all I need is a tiny QL (possibly with wireless and/or web access) to carry around. If work-related, I'd use the laptop. It seems that cost-wise, there isn't much in it when you can buy a new laptop of reasonable spec for 250-350 pounds, or a reasonable second-user machine for half that. These new notebooks are useful, but it looks to me like the small savings you can make for a decent machine are not really worth the bother, unless your requirement is dictated specifically by size and weight of the machine, and no moving parts (hard disk). I think ideally I'd need to try one out before I decided, as it seems to be hard to find a machine which is right for the job at this level. -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 7 Sep 2008, at 19:24, Dilwyn Jones wrote: I have a conventional Windows laptop of reasonable spec already, but fancied a small and light notebook to carry around with me when all I need is a tiny QL (possibly with wireless and/or web access) to carry around. If work-related, I'd use the laptop. It seems that cost-wise, there isn't much in it when you can buy a new laptop of reasonable spec for 250-350 pounds, or a reasonable second-user machine for half that. Car comparisons are dated, but: You can buy a Mercedes A-class for £14,000. You can also buy a large Korean car like the Kia Magentis which is a class above, 15ft long instead of 10ft, etc. What's happening is not that laptops are getting significantly cheaper, but that cutting edge small devices are getting cheaper and more popular. So, it's a bit like the A-class coming down to the price of Kia's small car (what is that these days? Rio?). You can still get the cheap, cheerful full size product, but there's now an option for a cheap compact one too wheras previously, you'd pay a huge premium for the small form factor (see Flybook etc.). Also a point to note, all the prices I'm quoting and likely anyone else is here are inclusive of tax. US prices rarely include sales taxes which can vary dramatically. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 6 Sep 2008, at 18:09, P Witte wrote: After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Hi Per, I agree that the 701 is too limiting; this is why I favour the Acer Aspire with 120GB HD. It's £229, so still well within the cheap end of the spectrum (compared to £300+ for the 901/MSI Wind) and is very small and efficient. Do try one. The 1024 x 600 resolution over the Eee 701's 800 x 480 is a massive advantage. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Hi Per, I agree that the 701 is too limiting; this is why I favour the Acer Aspire with 120GB HD. It's £229, so still well within the cheap end of the spectrum (compared to £300+ for the 901/MSI Wind) and is very small and efficient. Do try one. The 1024 x 600 resolution over the Eee 701's 800 x 480 is a massive advantage. From what you've said, it seems that the cheaper systems aren't much good for regular use. What about someone like me who has an occasional need for a portable QL away from home, where weight and small size might be important? Or would I be better off (even for occasional light use) to save my pennies and wait until I can afford a more expensive machine? Or would you go as far as to say that I'd be better off with a traditional laptop PC? -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Hi everybody, I was able to use the Wind for a short while (Andrea bought one for herself)... Excellent machine: large display, harddisk, WinXP, Bluetooth, WLAN, no noise and very fast. QPC runs very well :-) And the resolution is fine for QPC. For Windows programs, I miss more lines on the display (you have to scroll a lot!) but Andrea says you get used to it. She replaced her 17 (well working!) Acer laptop by the Wind... weight and no noise are worth trading in the resolution for, she says. She's missing the keypad,though... but that hardly fits into THAT size ;-) Jochen Dilwyn Jones wrote: After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Hi Per, I agree that the 701 is too limiting; this is why I favour the Acer Aspire with 120GB HD. It's £229, so still well within the cheap end of the spectrum (compared to £300+ for the 901/MSI Wind) and is very small and efficient. Do try one. The 1024 x 600 resolution over the Eee 701's 800 x 480 is a massive advantage. From what you've said, it seems that the cheaper systems aren't much good for regular use. What about someone like me who has an occasional need for a portable QL away from home, where weight and small size might be important? Or would I be better off (even for occasional light use) to save my pennies and wait until I can afford a more expensive machine? Or would you go as far as to say that I'd be better off with a traditional laptop PC? -- Jochen Merz Software - Kaiser-Wilhelm-Str. 302 - D-47169 Duisburg Tel. +49-(0)203-502011 Fax +49-(0)203-502012 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://SMSQ.J-M-S.COM ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Evening Jochen, just a quick word, I received the documentation upgrades safely. Thanks. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Wind? Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: SMSQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook Hi everybody, I was able to use the Wind for a short while (Andrea bought one for herself)... Excellent machine: large display, harddisk, WinXP, Bluetooth, WLAN, no noise and very fast. QPC runs very well :-) And the resolution is fine for QPC. For Windows programs, I miss more lines on the display (you have to scroll a lot!) but Andrea says you get used to it. She replaced her 17 (well working!) Acer laptop by the Wind... weight and no noise are worth trading in the resolution for, she says. She's missing the keypad,though... but that hardly fits into THAT size ;-) Jochen Dilwyn Jones wrote: After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Hi Per, I agree that the 701 is too limiting; this is why I favour the Acer Aspire with 120GB HD. It's £229, so still well within the cheap end of the spectrum (compared to £300+ for the 901/MSI Wind) and is very small and efficient. Do try one. The 1024 x 600 resolution over the Eee 701's 800 x 480 is a massive advantage. From what you've said, it seems that the cheaper systems aren't much good for regular use. What about someone like me who has an occasional need for a portable QL away from home, where weight and small size might be important? Or would I be better off (even for occasional light use) to save my pennies and wait until I can afford a more expensive machine? Or would you go as far as to say that I'd be better off with a traditional laptop PC? -- Jochen Merz Software - Kaiser-Wilhelm-Str. 302 - D-47169 Duisburg Tel. +49-(0)203-502011 Fax +49-(0)203-502012 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://SMSQ.J-M-S.COM ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 6 Sep 2008, at 19:47, Dilwyn Jones wrote: From what you've said, it seems that the cheaper systems aren't much good for regular use. What about someone like me who has an occasional need for a portable QL away from home, where weight and small size might be important? Or would I be better off (even for occasional light use) to save my pennies and wait until I can afford a more expensive machine? Or would you go as far as to say that I'd be better off with a traditional laptop PC? The Acer is £199 with 8GB and £229 with 120GB. It's 1024 x 600, 1.6GHz and fully capable of running Windows XP or various flavours of Linux. What I'm saying is that for the saving for the very cheapest machines - £169 for the Maplin, or the Eee 701 - the Acer represents the genuinely lowest price point you will get something useful at. The 800 x 480 screen on the 701 is limiting for modern web browsing (though I reckon it would be fine for an emulated QL environment; it looked fantastic running Atari 800 emulators), the Maplin's insanely limited CPU (not just performance, but third-party support) - for the sake of a £40 saving? Not worth it. Likewise, if you wanted to add a memory card, the Acer has an SD card slot to expand the built in storage AND a memory card reader; and buying SD cards for the Maplin to go from 2GB to 8GB would eat up a reasonable amount of the cost saving too. The instant you cross into the £300 needed for the MSI Wind or upmarket Eee models, then you can get a dual core 13 laptop from Currys or elsewhere for £280ish. Unless you REALLY want the tiny form factor, it's not worth the effort. I certainly don't think you should save your pennies if all you want is occasional light use and are already interested in this class of machine; I just think you should not spend more than £200 (I count the extra £29 for the 120GB version of the Acer as a very cheap extra memory card I'd have bought anyway - it's less than I paid for the no- name brand 16GB SDHC card I use) and should get the absolute best specification you can for that money. The Elonex One - the mooted £100 laptop - is more interesting as the One+ with 256MB RAM and 2GB SSD, but it's still 800 x 480, 300MHz weird 'barely supported' CPU, and in that form costs £119. Another few quid for a decent capacity SD card, and you're into 1.6GHz Atom territory. Commodore brand have just announced one, too. It's £325, which is already insane given the current marketplace, and uses of all things the VIA C7-M CPU, which is basically a Cyrix. Anyone who remembers Cyrix back in the Pentium days will already have shudders running down their spines, but the truth is, the C7-M is chosen for battery life; Intel have leapfrogged them AND don't need to cripple the CPU's performance to do it. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Richard, Thanks for detailed explanation - below. There is no doubt that these devices are an interesting development that we will all get involved with. The 1.6 Ghz Atom processor is an example of that. On 5 Sep 2008, at 19:52, Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Richard, Esus seem now to be pushing the 900 series and the latest 1000 series in their new advertisements. Which are obviously more capable. So, that is why the 700 series is being discounted. It's just natural price erosion. It's not being discounted, it's being reduced in price as the competition and technology improves. Asus' model range was always intended to be more than just the 700 series, but a more capable 700 would be an upgrade; the 900 and 1000 are 9 and 10 screen variants. They have yet to upgrade the 7 model to a 1.6GHz CPU, but that's probably because they're judging the marketplace to see if having a 7 variant is worthwhile when the form factor is not really significantly smaller (the keyboard dictating the smallest usable chassis for what they see this market wanting). What is significant is that the Eee 701 is the same price as the Maplin/Elonex Onet netbook device, but instead of insufficient RAM/ SSD space to handle modern applications, it's quite a handy little device and capable of running XP (the XP shipping with various SCCs is not drastically crippled, it's just XP Home - however, many users prefer to install an 'nlite' installer packaged version of XP with non- essential and cosmetic aspects removed. Bear in mind that XP was developed when 4GB HDs in laptops were commonplace, it's more than capable of surviving on a 2GB or 4GB machine. It's the size of the applications and the media we work with that presents the real issue with storage). All of these machines bar the Elonex derivatives are full PC hardware. The 1.6GHz Atom CPU is perfectly capable of running fairly serious apps; I have a device called a FlipStart which is a 5.6 1024x600 display based pocket PC, with a Pentium-M CPU at 1.1GHz and Windows XP. I've used Adobe CS3 on it, Lightroom and even played World of Warcraft on it, despite the meagre 512MB RAM. The Atom is certainly comparable with that CPU, though I've yet to test Lightroom's performance on one of the Atom based machines. The original 900 with 900MHz CPU is no more capable than the 700. It simply has a larger screen and SSD. Richard -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Per, I think that you are right. The mini-laptop devices are interesting, yet still developing in capability ... which is changing all the time. Which is why the MSI Wind U100 has been seen as a successor / rival to the Eee PC range. After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Per -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
MSI Wind ... Medion and Plus sold them recently ... same model, but without Bluetooth. Jochen Ralf Reköndt wrote: Wind? Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: SMSQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook Hi everybody, I was able to use the Wind for a short while (Andrea bought one for herself)... Excellent machine: large display, harddisk, WinXP, Bluetooth, WLAN, no noise and very fast. QPC runs very well :-) And the resolution is fine for QPC. For Windows programs, I miss more lines on the display (you have to scroll a lot!) but Andrea says you get used to it. She replaced her 17 (well working!) Acer laptop by the Wind... weight and no noise are worth trading in the resolution for, she says. She's missing the keypad,though... but that hardly fits into THAT size ;-) Jochen Dilwyn Jones wrote: After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Hi Per, I agree that the 701 is too limiting; this is why I favour the Acer Aspire with 120GB HD. It's £229, so still well within the cheap end of the spectrum (compared to £300+ for the 901/MSI Wind) and is very small and efficient. Do try one. The 1024 x 600 resolution over the Eee 701's 800 x 480 is a massive advantage. From what you've said, it seems that the cheaper systems aren't much good for regular use. What about someone like me who has an occasional need for a portable QL away from home, where weight and small size might be important? Or would I be better off (even for occasional light use) to save my pennies and wait until I can afford a more expensive machine? Or would you go as far as to say that I'd be better off with a traditional laptop PC? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
MSI Wind ... Medion and Plus sold them recently in Germany... same model, but without Bluetooth. Jochen Ralf Reköndt wrote: Wind? Cheers...Ralf - Original Message - From: SMSQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook Hi everybody, I was able to use the Wind for a short while (Andrea bought one for herself)... Excellent machine: large display, harddisk, WinXP, Bluetooth, WLAN, no noise and very fast. QPC runs very well :-) And the resolution is fine for QPC. For Windows programs, I miss more lines on the display (you have to scroll a lot!) but Andrea says you get used to it. She replaced her 17 (well working!) Acer laptop by the Wind... weight and no noise are worth trading in the resolution for, she says. She's missing the keypad,though... but that hardly fits into THAT size ;-) Jochen Dilwyn Jones wrote: After using the eeePC 701 for a while, I gave it up as too limiting for my purposes. The battery life is crap, the fan whirres incessantly because the thing produces far too much heat. It also seems stupid to put up with a 7 screen when the box is more like 10. So all in all, after the initial rush I find I need something a little more sophisticated to get by on the move whilst having a real PC at home. The 901 seems a lot more promising but theyre still flogging the inferior 900s here, so itll have to wait. On the other hand, a couple of hundred ££ more will get you a real sub notebook.. Hi Per, I agree that the 701 is too limiting; this is why I favour the Acer Aspire with 120GB HD. It's £229, so still well within the cheap end of the spectrum (compared to £300+ for the 901/MSI Wind) and is very small and efficient. Do try one. The 1024 x 600 resolution over the Eee 701's 800 x 480 is a massive advantage. From what you've said, it seems that the cheaper systems aren't much good for regular use. What about someone like me who has an occasional need for a portable QL away from home, where weight and small size might be important? Or would I be better off (even for occasional light use) to save my pennies and wait until I can afford a more expensive machine? Or would you go as far as to say that I'd be better off with a traditional laptop PC? -- Jochen Merz Software - Kaiser-Wilhelm-Str. 302 - D-47169 Duisburg Tel. +49-(0)203-502011 Fax +49-(0)203-502012 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://SMSQ.J-M-S.COM ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 6 Sep 2008, at 21:34, SMSQ wrote: MSI Wind ... Medion and Plus sold them recently in Germany... same model, but without Bluetooth. Also sold as the Advent 4211 in the UK, at £279. It's a 10.2 screen (so larger form factor), but still 1024 x 600; featuring built-in bluetooth is a bonus, but specification-wise aside from the size (not resolution) of the screen and the higher-res webcam (1.3Mp instead of VGA) it's much the same as the Acer but with a smaller HD for more money. However, the keyboard is larger, the cooling better, and it's got a much larger capacity battery. MSI are also intending to ship a more grown up Linux distro compared to Linpus Lite or Xandros. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
I cn get the EEEPC for less than the prices you quote, but I would have to buy in batches of 10-20 to get the discounted price. I am not sure if there is a mrket for this type of thing. What do you think. Derek Not really - individuals may buy one if it fulfils a particular need for them, but I don't really think there's a market for them unless someone can convince us that a hard-disk-less computer running a (older?) form of linux with WINE and QPC2 is worth the effort. One or two people seemed to be happy with an Asus Eeepc (well, got QPC runing on it anyway), and I happened to see the article in Computeractive about a sub-100 pounds notebook which Richard seems even less happy than Computeractive about (The Elonex One). When new things like this come out, we should look at them since the combined cost of a Eeepc, WINE and QPC2 is a cheaper QL compatible (with benefit of Linux for those who like or use Linux) than any future QL compatible hardware is likely to be. I'm not into Linux myself, so these devices are of no interest to me, but in my role as news editor I like to get discussion going about these things in case there's something in it for us as QLers. -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 5 Sep 2008, at 11:55, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Not really - individuals may buy one if it fulfils a particular need for them, but I don't really think there's a market for them unless someone can convince us that a hard-disk-less computer running a (older?) form of linux with WINE and QPC2 is worth the effort. One or two people seemed to be happy with an Asus Eeepc (well, got QPC runing on it anyway), and I happened to see the article in Computeractive about a sub-100 pounds notebook which Richard seems even less happy than Computeractive about (The Elonex One). When new things like this come out, we should look at them since the combined cost of a Eeepc, WINE and QPC2 is a cheaper QL compatible (with benefit of Linux for those who like or use Linux) than any future QL compatible hardware is likely to be. You don't need WINE; Acer's Aspire One 120GB, Asus Eee 900/1000 series and others like the Dell Mini 9 all support or ship with Windows XP. It's possibly, albeit cramped, to run Windows XP on an Eee 701. What would be interesting, to me at least, would be a native QL OS for this platform. Something that uses a cut-down Linux kernel for I/O but is essentially a QL when you power it up. It would be fast, efficient and interesting. The lack of a hard disc is not an issue for many people. 8GB is plenty, 4GB is tolerable. Remember when your main desktop computer only had 40MB of HD space. The Eee and Aspire One are leading the marketplace with good value products; these should definitely be looked at - the Eee 701 is now £150 ex. VAT. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
When new things like this come out, we should look at them since the combined cost of a Eeepc, WINE and QPC2 is a cheaper QL compatible (with benefit of Linux for those who like or use Linux) than any future QL compatible hardware is likely to be. You don't need WINE; Acer's Aspire One 120GB, Asus Eee 900/1000 series and others like the Dell Mini 9 all support or ship with Windows XP. It's possibly, albeit cramped, to run Windows XP on an Eee 701. Good point. Does Windows run native on them or is it via some form of Linux interface? I presume that since these machines are called PCs, they use some form of Intel-type chips and so on. What would be interesting, to me at least, would be a native QL OS for this platform. Something that uses a cut-down Linux kernel for I/O but is essentially a QL when you power it up. It would be fast, efficient and interesting. Now we're talking :-) The lack of a hard disc is not an issue for many people. 8GB is plenty, 4GB is tolerable. Remember when your main desktop computer only had 40MB of HD space. Think how much software is in Quanta library. It EASILY fits on one CD. The Eee and Aspire One are leading the marketplace with good value products; these should definitely be looked at - the Eee 701 is now £150 ex. VAT. Whichever way you look at these machines, you can probably put QPC or uQLx on them and have a portable dual-system machine, either Linux+QL or XP+QL at quite a reasonable cost. -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Hi Dilwyn, Good point. Does Windows run native on them or is it via some form of Linux interface? It is indeed a native OS. The Asus EE (that's the Yorkshire version) came out as a Linux system 'only'. It seems that MS 'talked' to Asus and lo, an XP version was the result. I believe that it is a cut down version of XP to run in under 1GB RAM (and not to run if there is ever more!) and some other restriction like one CPU and no extra cores and so on. There may be more or less restrictions. MS are planning to have XP available for small laptops like these only - they want everyone to run Vista instead and are trying to stop XP. It will run on sub-notebooks only. Of course, they have announced that Windows 7 (eh?) will be out in one year - so they have obviously given up on Vista. Think how much software is in Quanta library. It EASILY fits on one CD. Hmm, I remember those Posso boxes you used to sell. I had one of them completely filled with the full Quanta library when I was last a librarian. Progress. I bet it is a lot quicker to copy the full library now on a CD than it was onto x-hundred separate 720KB floppies! Actually, one thing that I always think - because I'm so sad - is when I'm downloading an Oracle CD at home on my cable broadband, I'm getting faster downloads for a CD now that I ever was when I was the Quanta C librarian and had to regularly download 720KB of separate disc for the C68 discs. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I cn get the EEEPC for less than the prices you quote, but I would have to buy in batches of 10-20 to get the discounted price. I am not sure if there is a mrket for this type of thing. What do you think. Derek Not really - individuals may buy one if it fulfils a particular need for them, but I don't really think there's a market for them unless someone can convince us that a hard-disk-less computer running a (older?) form of linux with WINE and QPC2 is worth the effort. One or two people seemed to be happy with an Asus Eeepc (well, got QPC runing on it anyway), and I happened to see the article in Computeractive about a sub-100 pounds notebook which Richard seems even less happy than Computeractive about (The Elonex One). When new things like this come out, we should look at them since the combined cost of a Eeepc, WINE and QPC2 is a cheaper QL compatible (with benefit of Linux for those who like or use Linux) than any future QL compatible hardware is likely to be. I'm not into Linux myself, so these devices are of no interest to me, but in my role as news editor I like to get discussion going about these things in case there's something in it for us as QLers. Hi Dilwyn, With most of these mini-laptops the Linux OS is usually the supplied one. Although they can be used with Windows XP. I guess that the to market price is lower when using an Open Source OS like Linux. Although, it is not free. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Derek Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Derek, The RRP is only a guide, and obviously these products become available at lower prices after a while. I dunno if there is a market for the Eee PC amongst QL users . Yet, these mini-laptops are an interesting market. I guess that we will all get one at some time. Because we are always interested / fascinated by any new technology that is around. I bought a Risc Station palm top, some years ago now, with 8Mb SSD, and I was impressed by what it could do natively. As well as running a Z80 emulator, to play Spectrum games. Only a BW display though. Another purpose has been for reading books converted to an electronic format, and available to download off the internet for free. Hi Malcom, I cn get the EEEPC for less than the prices you quote, but I would have to buy in batches of 10-20 to get the discounted price. I am not sure if there is a mrket for this type of thing. What do you think. Derek Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Dilwyn, I have just bought the October issue of PC Pro magazine, and Asus, who make the Eee Pc have a massive 12 page advertising booklet within So, they do a very wide range of products. In the notebook ( mini-laptop ) PC range the lowest priced is the Eee PC 4G - with an Intel Mobile processor, Linux OS, 7 ( 800 x 600 ) display, 512Mb memory, 4GB SSD - priced at £169.36 RRP ex VAT. So, a sub-£100 notebook is still a way off, as yet. The highest priced in the notebook PC range is the Eee PC 1000 - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Linux OS, 10 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 1024Mb memory, 40GB SSD - priced at £314.04 RRP ex VAT The equivalent model with a standard 80Gb hard drive is priced at £297.02 RRP ex VAT. The rivals in this market are starting to appear. Like the new MSI Wind U100 - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Windows XP OS, 10 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 512Mb memory, 80GB hard drive - priced at £281 RRP ex VAT. The other mini-laptop already available is the Acer Aspire one - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Linux OS, 8.9 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 1024Mb memory, 8GB SSD - priced at £196 RRP ex VAT. Thus, it is probably better to think of a sub-£300 or sub-£200 potential price range for these smaller portable computers at present. Although, that is around 2/3 rds to a 1/2 the cost of well specified regular portable PC. The mini-laptops have the smaller size for even greater portability, yet not as well as specified as standard portable PC. However, they do have features like wi-fi, USB ports, and Ethernet, etc. I guess, with the right effort and software, a QL system emulator will run on many of these mini-laptops. On 4 Sep 2008, at 10:42, hitchies wrote: Thanks Richard for your informative and helpful machine assesments. However, about (8GB) SSD... I am ignorant! SSD = Solid State Disc. Smaller, more expensive per GB, and slower - but very hard to break. The primary drawback of a machine with a smaller one, is that upgrading it will be very expensive and difficult. For experimentation and most applications, I prefer HD equipped models in theory; in practice, mine are all SSD equipped because they're the models most available. Richard -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Richard, Esus seem now to be pushing the 900 series and the latest 1000 series in their new advertisements. Which are obviously more capable. So, that is why the 700 series is being discounted. The Eee and Aspire One are leading the marketplace with good value products; these should definitely be looked at - the Eee 701 is now £150 ex. VAT. Richard -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 5 Sep 2008, at 19:52, Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Richard, Esus seem now to be pushing the 900 series and the latest 1000 series in their new advertisements. Which are obviously more capable. So, that is why the 700 series is being discounted. It's just natural price erosion. It's not being discounted, it's being reduced in price as the competition and technology improves. Asus' model range was always intended to be more than just the 700 series, but a more capable 700 would be an upgrade; the 900 and 1000 are 9 and 10 screen variants. They have yet to upgrade the 7 model to a 1.6GHz CPU, but that's probably because they're judging the marketplace to see if having a 7 variant is worthwhile when the form factor is not really significantly smaller (the keyboard dictating the smallest usable chassis for what they see this market wanting). What is significant is that the Eee 701 is the same price as the Maplin/Elonex Onet netbook device, but instead of insufficient RAM/ SSD space to handle modern applications, it's quite a handy little device and capable of running XP (the XP shipping with various SCCs is not drastically crippled, it's just XP Home - however, many users prefer to install an 'nlite' installer packaged version of XP with non- essential and cosmetic aspects removed. Bear in mind that XP was developed when 4GB HDs in laptops were commonplace, it's more than capable of surviving on a 2GB or 4GB machine. It's the size of the applications and the media we work with that presents the real issue with storage). All of these machines bar the Elonex derivatives are full PC hardware. The 1.6GHz Atom CPU is perfectly capable of running fairly serious apps; I have a device called a FlipStart which is a 5.6 1024x600 display based pocket PC, with a Pentium-M CPU at 1.1GHz and Windows XP. I've used Adobe CS3 on it, Lightroom and even played World of Warcraft on it, despite the meagre 512MB RAM. The Atom is certainly comparable with that CPU, though I've yet to test Lightroom's performance on one of the Atom based machines. The original 900 with 900MHz CPU is no more capable than the 700. It simply has a larger screen and SSD. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Thanks Richard for your informative and helpful machine assesments. However, about (8GB) SSD... I am ignorant! SSD? please Richard. TIA Greetings to all John in Wales ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 4 Sep 2008, at 10:42, hitchies wrote: Thanks Richard for your informative and helpful machine assesments. However, about (8GB) SSD... I am ignorant! SSD = Solid State Disc. Smaller, more expensive per GB, and slower - but very hard to break. The primary drawback of a machine with a smaller one, is that upgrading it will be very expensive and difficult. For experimentation and most applications, I prefer HD equipped models in theory; in practice, mine are all SSD equipped because they're the models most available. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Dilwyn, I have just bought the October issue of PC Pro magazine, and Asus, who make the Eee Pc have a massive 12 page advertising booklet within it. So, they do a very wide range of products. In the notebook ( mini-laptop ) PC range the lowest priced is the Eee PC 4G - with an Intel Mobile processor, Linux OS, 7 ( 800 x 600 ) display, 512Mb memory, 4GB SSD - priced at £169.36 RRP ex VAT. So, a sub-£100 notebook is still a way off, as yet. The highest priced in the notebook PC range is the Eee PC 1000 - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Linux OS, 10 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 1024Mb memory, 40GB SSD - priced at £314.04 RRP ex VAT The equivalent model with a standard 80Gb hard drive is priced at £297.02 RRP ex VAT. The rivals in this market are starting to appear. Like the new MSI Wind U100 - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Windows XP OS, 10 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 512Mb memory, 80GB hard drive - priced at £281 RRP ex VAT. The other mini-laptop already available is the Acer Aspire one - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Linux OS, 8.9 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 1024Mb memory, 8GB SSD - priced at £196 RRP ex VAT. Thus, it is probably better to think of a sub-£300 or sub-£200 potential price range for these smaller portable computers at present. Although, that is around 2/3 rds to a 1/2 the cost of well specified regular portable PC. The mini-laptops have the smaller size for even greater portability, yet not as well as specified as standard portable PC. However, they do have features like wi-fi, USB ports, and Ethernet, etc. I guess, with the right effort and software, a QL system emulator will run on many of these mini-laptops. On 4 Sep 2008, at 10:42, hitchies wrote: Thanks Richard for your informative and helpful machine assesments. However, about (8GB) SSD... I am ignorant! SSD = Solid State Disc. Smaller, more expensive per GB, and slower - but very hard to break. The primary drawback of a machine with a smaller one, is that upgrading it will be very expensive and difficult. For experimentation and most applications, I prefer HD equipped models in theory; in practice, mine are all SSD equipped because they're the models most available. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 4 Sep 2008, at 20:26, Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Dilwyn, I have just bought the October issue of PC Pro magazine, and Asus, who make the Eee Pc have a massive 12 page advertising booklet within it. So, they do a very wide range of products. In the notebook ( mini-laptop ) PC range the lowest priced is the Eee PC 4G - with an Intel Mobile processor, Linux OS, 7 ( 800 x 600 ) display, 512Mb memory, 4GB SSD - priced at £169.36 RRP ex VAT. So, a sub-£100 notebook is still a way off, as yet. No, it isn't. PC Pro might not have featured one, but Elonex launched the Elonex One in February; shipments are happening now - a £99 notebook. It is a rubbish device, with 128MB RAM, 1GB storage, 800 x 480 non- touch 7 LCD (a small trackball is on the rear of it) and a 300MHz MIPS-clone CPU, running an antique Linux kernel, but it is a sub £100 notebook. The Eee is under £150 ex VAT now. Acer's Aspire comes in 8GB, 120GB and 160GB versions. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
Hi Malcom, I cn get the EEEPC for less than the prices you quote, but I would have to buy in batches of 10-20 to get the discounted price. I am not sure if there is a mrket for this type of thing. What do you think. Derek Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Dilwyn, I have just bought the October issue of PC Pro magazine, and Asus, who make the Eee Pc have a massive 12 page advertising booklet within it. So, they do a very wide range of products. In the notebook ( mini-laptop ) PC range the lowest priced is the Eee PC 4G - with an Intel Mobile processor, Linux OS, 7 ( 800 x 600 ) display, 512Mb memory, 4GB SSD - priced at £169.36 RRP ex VAT. So, a sub-£100 notebook is still a way off, as yet. The highest priced in the notebook PC range is the Eee PC 1000 - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Linux OS, 10 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 1024Mb memory, 40GB SSD - priced at £314.04 RRP ex VAT The equivalent model with a standard 80Gb hard drive is priced at £297.02 RRP ex VAT. The rivals in this market are starting to appear. Like the new MSI Wind U100 - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Windows XP OS, 10 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 512Mb memory, 80GB hard drive - priced at £281 RRP ex VAT. The other mini-laptop already available is the Acer Aspire one - Intel Mobile Atom 1.6Ghz processor, Linux OS, 8.9 ( 1024 x 600 ) display, 1024Mb memory, 8GB SSD - priced at £196 RRP ex VAT. Thus, it is probably better to think of a sub-£300 or sub-£200 potential price range for these smaller portable computers at present. Although, that is around 2/3 rds to a 1/2 the cost of well specified regular portable PC. The mini-laptops have the smaller size for even greater portability, yet not as well as specified as standard portable PC. However, they do have features like wi-fi, USB ports, and Ethernet, etc. I guess, with the right effort and software, a QL system emulator will run on many of these mini-laptops. On 4 Sep 2008, at 10:42, hitchies wrote: Thanks Richard for your informative and helpful machine assesments. However, about (8GB) SSD... I am ignorant! SSD = Solid State Disc. Smaller, more expensive per GB, and slower - but very hard to break. The primary drawback of a machine with a smaller one, is that upgrading it will be very expensive and difficult. For experimentation and most applications, I prefer HD equipped models in theory; in practice, mine are all SSD equipped because they're the models most available. Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 16:13 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
We had a brief discussion of using the WINE/QPC2 combination on the new Linux-based notebook PCs such as the Asus Eeepc. I notice that Maplin are selling a £160 notebook and Elonex a £99 notebook along the same lines. Anyone tried these machines to see if either uQLx or WINE/QPC2 could be run on them. Details are at www.maplin.co.uk (product code A98HX) and www.elonex.co.uk (Elonex One). The Elonex machine is reviewed in the current Computeractive issue 275. The Elonex machine in particular being a sub-£100 machine would make a decent cheap portable WINE/QPC2 or uQLx system if those emulators work on it. -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] sub-£100 notebook
On 2 Sep 2008, at 19:04, Dilwyn Jones wrote: We had a brief discussion of using the WINE/QPC2 combination on the new Linux-based notebook PCs such as the Asus Eeepc. I notice that Maplin are selling a £160 notebook and Elonex a £99 notebook along the same lines. Anyone tried these machines to see if either uQLx or WINE/QPC2 could be run on them. Details are at www.maplin.co.uk (product code A98HX) and www.elonex.co.uk (Elonex One). The Elonex machine is reviewed in the current Computeractive issue 275. The Elonex machine in particular being a sub-£100 machine would make a decent cheap portable WINE/QPC2 or uQLx system if those emulators work on it. Seriously. These machines are rubbish. The Elonex Onet - not their £99 one - is the same as the Maplin. They are underpowered, based on a Chinese knock-off MIPS CPU, in the case of the One (rubber keyboard tablet) at 300MHz/128MB RAM/1GB SSD, and the Onet at 400MHz. They run a dated version of Linux and lack hardware resources. They're also very overpriced for what you get in the case of the Onet/Maplin - the Asus Eee 701 is under £150 if you shop around and offers superior specification, the £189 price point mooted for the Elonex Onet is a mere £10 saving on the Acer Aspire One, which at £199 offers greater resolution display (1024 x 600), 8GB SSD (£229 gives 120GB HD), 512MB RAM (expandable to 1.5GB) and a 1.6GHz Intel CPU with decent cache and performance. There are many good SCC (Small, Cheap Computer) models, Asus and Acer leading the market, but the MSI Wind (also sold as an Advent), and Dell's forthcoming machine also offer good specifications for a decent price. The £40 (at most) saving you make on the Maplin model is costing you useful screen resolution, useful storage, useful RAM and most significantly, a useful CPU that can handle modern Linux distros comfortably. In addition the Acer offers the hardware hack inclined motherboard pads for a Mini PCI-e slot and SIM card slot that will allow an internal 3G modem, 3 USB ports, VGA out (lacking on the Elonex/Maplin, IIRC), and a very useful feature on the SSD models - TWO card slots. One SDHC slot for storage expansion, and one card reader with support for various formats. QL on a SCC? Fantastic idea. Love to have a good QL environment running under Linux on my Acer or Eee. Elonex, however, have not produced something worthwhile for the marketplace here. When the specifications became apparent, I cancelled my order with them (and getting a refund, despite a vague 28 days delivery after waiting since February for the machines to ship from the pre-order date - even though the computers are rebranded Chinese machines that have been in production for some time already, was rather difficult and took threats of discussing the matter with the card clearing company). Richard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
