Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
In message f556ce5553de280b1bf809340d35dfe9.squir...@webmail.supanet.com, j...@supanet.com writes Perhaps we could help steer the project more towards SBasic by implementing such things as channels. Has anyone here got the skills, time and motivation to do this. Our company is considering porting this to ARM (Raspberry Pi included), but we need to study the licence. If we do I'll try and make it policy to use SBasic as the programming model to use when enhancing the language. If SBasic or QL is to survive two things have to happen. 1SBasic license has to change to open source such as GPL. 2An Emulator such as Uqlx needs to be upgraded to run on the Rasberry PI and Pandora. If these programs are open source then the development will probably happen automatically. Otherwise it will die with us. Hi Jim, I guess that will happen, naturally enough. And, wow! A new computer that you can easily learn to program ... now where did that idea come from ... :-) . ? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
En/Je/On 2012-02-28 13:48, Lee Privett escribió / skribis / wrote : SpecBAS does sound like something you cough up I'm sorry, I'm not sure to understand what you mean. I didn't know that expression. I found this in thefreedictionary.com: --- Phrasal Verb: cough up Slang --- 1. To hand over or relinquish (money or another possession), often reluctantly. 2. To confess or disclose: When he saw that the police might arrest him, he coughed up the details of what he had seen. --- re·lin·quish --- 1. To retire from; give up or abandon. 2. To put aside or desist from (something practiced, professed, or intended). 3. To let go; surrender. 4. To cease holding physically; release: relinquish a grip. --- As I said, the project is not mature yet, and still hardly usable beside testing, if that's what you mean. But it's under active development and has a great potential. Its author developed BASin for years, a successful and popular IDE for Sinclar BASIC, written in Delphi for Windows. That's a guarantee for this new and more ambitious project. Marcos -- http://programandala.net ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
Perhaps we could help steer the project more towards SBasic by implementing such things as channels. Has anyone here got the skills, time and motivation to do this. Our company is considering porting this to ARM (Raspberry Pi included), but we need to study the licence. If we do I'll try and make it policy to use SBasic as the programming model to use when enhancing the language. On 27/02/2012 12:38, Marcos Cruz wrote: En/Je/On 2012-02-23 10:40, Stephen Usher escribió / skribis / wrote : need for a modern equivalent to the old home computer systems and the BASIC language which came on them. On the home computer front, On the scientific front, I forgot to mention the SpecBAS project by Paul Dunn (http://specbas.co.uk). It's a BASIC interpreter based on the old ZX Spectrum's BASIC, but much improved, more powerful and multiplatform. It is still alpha but looks quite promising. I think it soon will suit the needs you mention. There are binary packages for Windows, Linux (Intel) and the Pandora's Ångström (http://openpandora.org). It's written in Free Pascal and it's open source, so it can be compiled for other platforms as well. In fact I'm considering SpecBAS as an alternative to SBASIC for a couple of game projects under development. The source code conversion would not be difficult, and the benefits would be remarkable: wider audience; easier programming of sounds and graphics; and the chance to be able to contribute to an open and evolving project. Marcos ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
En/Je/On 2012-02-23 10:40, Stephen Usher escribió / skribis / wrote : need for a modern equivalent to the old home computer systems and the BASIC language which came on them. On the home computer front, On the scientific front, I forgot to mention the SpecBAS project by Paul Dunn (http://specbas.co.uk). It's a BASIC interpreter based on the old ZX Spectrum's BASIC, but much improved, more powerful and multiplatform. It is still alpha but looks quite promising. I think it soon will suit the needs you mention. There are binary packages for Windows, Linux (Intel) and the Pandora's Ångström (http://openpandora.org). It's written in Free Pascal and it's open source, so it can be compiled for other platforms as well. In fact I'm considering SpecBAS as an alternative to SBASIC for a couple of game projects under development. The source code conversion would not be difficult, and the benefits would be remarkable: wider audience; easier programming of sounds and graphics; and the chance to be able to contribute to an open and evolving project. Marcos ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
On 24/02/2012 07:38, Norman Dunbar wrote: Morning Steve, On 23/02/12 20:56, Stephen Usher wrote: I've put a PDF of my current thoughts about syntax on my web site: Quick question. FOR lops. I read that If the TO or UNTIL expression evaluates to zero at the time of loop entry the commands within the loop do not get run. which makes me think that the following is a non-loop: FOR x = 10 TO 0 STEP -1 NEXT x I think it should read If the WHILE expression evaluates to zero, or the current value is equal to the TO value, on entry Thanks. I'll re-word it! What I was trying to say that if the test expression evaluates to zero upon entry to the loop the loop contents do not get executed. In the FOR assignment TO loop-variable-target-expression STEP expression version the implicit test is is the loop variable not equal to the value of the target expression?. Steve -- --- Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
I used to Dabble a little using Dark Basic Professional, a rather nice Gui front end Basic mainly aimed at writing 'games'. A couple of my friends teenage boys enjoyed messing with it as it was very easy to code and results came quickly. This is worth a read for those interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkBASIC Neil -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Usher Sent: 23 February 2012 10:40 To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com Subject: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative. The Raspberry Pi project and my work at Oxford University supporting a science department has had me thinking for some time about the need for a modern equivalent to the old home computer systems and the BASIC language which came on them. On the home computer front, as shown in the second episode of the BBC's Electric Dreams, teenage boys are still enthused by being able to program, as long as within 15 minutes they can start annoying their family with sounds and putting their name on the screen in gaudy colours. Plotting things on the screen simply is also important. The energy barrier must not be very high. On the scientific front, there are many people who need to do some programming but find the energy barrier for learning traditional programming languages (and even Matlab) too steep. They need a simple language with which to process data and plot their data in a publishable quality format. To this end, I see SuperBASIC as a very good starting point, which needs to be extended with modern data structures such as compound variables and proper variable scoping. I've been thinking about this quite hard in the last few days and have written up my initial thoughts on my blog: http://www.lingula.org.uk/wordpress/2012/02/23/notsobasic/ Any comments and possible help appreciated. ;-) Steve ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01234-265380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
En/Je/On 2012-02-23 10:40, Stephen Usher escribió / skribis / wrote : need for a modern equivalent to the old home computer systems and the BASIC language which came on them. I miss such a tool too. I agree it would be very helpful on home computing, computing learning and professional fronts. This makes me remember an article I mentioned here some time ago: http://www.osnews.com/story/23464/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Code http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2006/09/14/basic/ To this end, I see SuperBASIC as a very good starting point, which needs to be extended with modern data structures such as compound variables and proper variable scoping. Right, but writing a new language is a huge task. Another approach could be to adapt an existant multiplatform BASIC such as FreeBASIC (htt://www.freebasic.net). It's a compiler, so a layer of macros and preprocessor commands could do the task to some extent. But of course a compiler would make things more complicated for the final user. Marcos -- http://programandala.net ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
On 23/02/12 12:02, Marcos Cruz wrote: En/Je/On 2012-02-23 10:40, Stephen Usher escribió / skribis / wrote : need for a modern equivalent to the old home computer systems and the BASIC language which came on them. I miss such a tool too. I agree it would be very helpful on home computing, computing learning and professional fronts. This makes me remember an article I mentioned here some time ago: http://www.osnews.com/story/23464/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Code http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2006/09/14/basic/ Indeed! To this end, I see SuperBASIC as a very good starting point, which needs to be extended with modern data structures such as compound variables and proper variable scoping. Right, but writing a new language is a huge task. Another approach could be to adapt an existant multiplatform BASIC such as FreeBASIC (htt://www.freebasic.net). It's a compiler, so a layer of macros and preprocessor commands could do the task to some extent. But of course a compiler would make things more complicated for the final user. Then again, it adds to the energy barrier, having to edit, compile, run. I'd like to avoid that. It also decreases the immediacy. It's not so much writing a new language as building upon the legacy of an older language which we know works, at least at the syntactical level. The goals of this project are probably very different from those of most, if not all, previous BASICs. i.e. not only easy of use for a 13 year old but also a tool for scientists for producing output publishable in journals. Steve ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
It is also relatively cheap software http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_productid=2030page=lite with a bundle here http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_bundleid=17 those who try this out will find some similarities with this and S*BASIC and Neil is quite right it is geared towards games and 3D environments but there are a hell of a load of commands and functions. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Neil Riley neil.ri...@boxclever.co.ukwrote: I used to Dabble a little using Dark Basic Professional, a rather nice Gui front end Basic mainly aimed at writing 'games'. A couple of my friends teenage boys enjoyed messing with it as it was very easy to code and results came quickly. This is worth a read for those interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkBASIC Neil -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Usher Sent: 23 February 2012 10:40 To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com Subject: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative. The Raspberry Pi project and my work at Oxford University supporting a science department has had me thinking for some time about the need for a modern equivalent to the old home computer systems and the BASIC language which came on them. On the home computer front, as shown in the second episode of the BBC's Electric Dreams, teenage boys are still enthused by being able to program, as long as within 15 minutes they can start annoying their family with sounds and putting their name on the screen in gaudy colours. Plotting things on the screen simply is also important. The energy barrier must not be very high. On the scientific front, there are many people who need to do some programming but find the energy barrier for learning traditional programming languages (and even Matlab) too steep. They need a simple language with which to process data and plot their data in a publishable quality format. To this end, I see SuperBASIC as a very good starting point, which needs to be extended with modern data structures such as compound variables and proper variable scoping. I've been thinking about this quite hard in the last few days and have written up my initial thoughts on my blog: http://www.lingula.org.uk/wordpress/2012/02/23/notsobasic/ Any comments and possible help appreciated. ;-) Steve ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01234-265380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Nascent project: Cross-platform SuperBASIC derivative.
Morning Steve, On 23/02/12 20:56, Stephen Usher wrote: I've put a PDF of my current thoughts about syntax on my web site: Quick question. FOR lops. I read that If the TO or UNTIL expression evaluates to zero at the time of loop entry the commands within the loop do not get run. which makes me think that the following is a non-loop: FOR x = 10 TO 0 STEP -1 NEXT x I think it should read If the WHILE expression evaluates to zero, or the current value is equal to the TO value, on entry Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
