Re: [ql-users] ZM/hT full manual ( was: The power of the Internet.)
From: Marcel Kilgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are knowledged people willing to share for NO PROFIT. Oh well, then we only have to find some of those and we're all good. That should be easy ;-) I didn't say that there are not knowledged people Marcel. You are one of the gurus here and I respect your work and contributions. In other words, I am saying that new people would be more interested in developing QL SW or HW if all the obstacles would disappear. Publishing all available documentation, schematics and source code would make much faster kick off of any new project. QL needs new projects. I'm also sure it's possible to get the schematics and layout of the QuibIDE board for free if anybody wants to build one for themselves and the firmware is free anyway. I am sorry, it is possibly my fault that I am new here and I don't know the people. So, I am the one who want to buid Qubide. Can you give me the direction where can I get the schematics, please? So hardware of that complexity is a pretty old hat. OK, but there are hundred(s) of black-box QL users without such device. Building hardware that actually advances the QL on the other hand is probably a dozen times more difficult. Disagree. Maybe you are thinking of your expanded advanced super QL on your desk, but my QL has only sandyQboard. So advancing has different meanings for us. I would be happy with: * Gold Card * Qubide. IIRC even the old SGC card is some very complex 4 layer board that you can't just cook up in your kitchen. 4 layers, it's so complex that nobody can do it. We are doomed. There is technology that enables building these devices, maybe not in my kitchen. If one person has this capability, there can be at least one SGC build. And what about more? It was already pointed that some components in SGC doesn't exist, HW needs to be redesigned, but capable people here doesn't have time. I am proposing to ask general public and transforming this issue into challenge for developers. That might in the best case bring working device in the worst case nothing will happen. So excuse me if I think that the two systems cannot be compared in any way. No problem. I hope you excuse me if I think that it can be compared. Black QL is not far more complicated than ZX. Biggest difference is in your mind. Jan -- http://icqsms.cz/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] ZM/hT full manual ( was: The power of the Internet.)
I will be very interested too by getting any schematics for Qubide. I am not going to build the board. I am just making some explorations to build an expander for Qubide, and until now I haven't managed to get all information I need. Regards/Alain Selon Jan Palenicek [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Marcel Kilgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are knowledged people willing to share for NO PROFIT. Oh well, then we only have to find some of those and we're all good. That should be easy ;-) I didn't say that there are not knowledged people Marcel. You are one of the gurus here and I respect your work and contributions. In other words, I am saying that new people would be more interested in developing QL SW or HW if all the obstacles would disappear. Publishing all available documentation, schematics and source code would make much faster kick off of any new project. QL needs new projects. I'm also sure it's possible to get the schematics and layout of the QuibIDE board for free if anybody wants to build one for themselves and the firmware is free anyway. I am sorry, it is possibly my fault that I am new here and I don't know the people. So, I am the one who want to buid Qubide. Can you give me the direction where can I get the schematics, please? So hardware of that complexity is a pretty old hat. OK, but there are hundred(s) of black-box QL users without such device. Building hardware that actually advances the QL on the other hand is probably a dozen times more difficult. Disagree. Maybe you are thinking of your expanded advanced super QL on your desk, but my QL has only sandyQboard. So advancing has different meanings for us. I would be happy with: * Gold Card * Qubide. IIRC even the old SGC card is some very complex 4 layer board that you can't just cook up in your kitchen. 4 layers, it's so complex that nobody can do it. We are doomed. There is technology that enables building these devices, maybe not in my kitchen. If one person has this capability, there can be at least one SGC build. And what about more? It was already pointed that some components in SGC doesn't exist, HW needs to be redesigned, but capable people here doesn't have time. I am proposing to ask general public and transforming this issue into challenge for developers. That might in the best case bring working device in the worst case nothing will happen. So excuse me if I think that the two systems cannot be compared in any way. No problem. I hope you excuse me if I think that it can be compared. Black QL is not far more complicated than ZX. Biggest difference is in your mind. Jan -- http://icqsms.cz/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] ZM/hT full manual ( was: The power of the Internet.)
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:57:22 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will be very interested too by getting any schematics for Qubide. I am not going to build the board. I am just making some explorations to build an expander for Qubide, and until now I haven't managed to get all information I need. I agree that releasing the schematics and drawings for QubIDE and the Gold Card / Super Gold Card, as well as the code for the various chips, may well generate some interest in the project. However, that is up to the original designers to decide whether they wish their work to be released into the public domain. Yes, this approach has worked well for the Spectrum, generating plenty of interest and changes to design, with new boards being produced. However, with 4 layer boards, it is prohibitively expensive for one person to attempt to make a test run of boards. Theone benefit which could come from releasing the design into the public forum is the ability to discuss methods of taking it forward and people working together (perhaps with some funding from Quanta's coffers and interested traders) to spread the risk and workload. Not long ago, we were bemoaning the lack of keyboard membranes for the QL and the prohibitive costs of such a project. Believe it or not, we now have to keep returning to the manufacturer for some more. It was a successful and worthwhile project and has certainly helped to keep RWAP Services running and able to support the Sinclairs. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk URL:http://www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
Neil Riley wrote: GoMMC, a RomDisq on steroids but with the opportunity to remove the mem card, excellent. Once again, Id buy one if developed for the QL. How would it sound if a SD/MMC device for SuperGoldCard, Q40 and Q60 had already been prototyped and a free software to access it was already written? Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:28:51 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neil Riley wrote: GoMMC, a RomDisq on steroids but with the opportunity to remove the mem card, excellent. Once again, Id buy one if developed for the QL. How would it sound if a SD/MMC device for SuperGoldCard, Q40 and Q60 had already been prototyped and a free software to access it was already written? That would sound brilliant - I for one would want to offer it for sale !! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk URL:http://www.rwapservices.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
In a message dated 16/02/2007 09:49:30 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That would sound brilliant - I for one would want to offer it for sale !! I would want to buy one Duncan ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
In a message dated 16/02/2007 09:29:17 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How would it sound if a SD/MMC device for SuperGoldCard, Q40 and Q60 had already been prototyped and a free software to access it was already written? Peter Do you have any othe projects else up your sleeve? Duncan ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
Duncan wrote: Do you have any othe projects else up your sleeve? Not absolutely impossible. But nothing major can happen until there's a decent free QL OS. All reasonable ways I have to implement OS level code for new hardware involve re-using free software and getting help from persons that won't be motivated by a proprietary OS. For peace sake the SMS license issue must rest, so the only way forward can be to re-invent the wheel and work on a free QL OS. This is of course a quite unsatisfactory task and the work on it crawls slowly. Some of my own work was done years ago, e.g. on native TCP/IP, and on a major hardware project I gave up during the license war. I started to forget, so things become increasingly difficult and unlikely. But I still have a little interest in major QL projects. All the best Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] Quanta membership
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I have changed the subject heading, to reflect the topic. - Original Message - From: Malcolm Cadman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Spare GC or SGC? Well ... 2 years is a long time in computing ... :-) ... so may be some optimism that new ideas can take seed. And in those 2 years 86 members (28% of the membership) have said goodbye to Quanta. I would love to know who they were and why they did. What have the officers done to find out? Yes, it obviously very difficult to get a response back from members who have left. Apart from the obvious like retirements and changes in circumstances, etc, there needs to be something to retain an interest. An electronic version of the magazine in PCF format is due to be launched soon. A letter or email to those members, no longer subscribing in the latter 2 to 3 years, informing them of this option; may get some interest again. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] ZM/hT full manual ( was: The power of the Internet.)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rich Mellor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:57:22 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will be very interested too by getting any schematics for Qubide. I am not going to build the board. I am just making some explorations to build an expander for Qubide, and until now I haven't managed to get all information I need. I agree that releasing the schematics and drawings for QubIDE and the Gold Card / Super Gold Card, as well as the code for the various chips, may well generate some interest in the project. However, that is up to the original designers to decide whether they wish their work to be released into the public domain. Yes, this approach has worked well for the Spectrum, generating plenty of interest and changes to design, with new boards being produced. However, with 4 layer boards, it is prohibitively expensive for one person to attempt to make a test run of boards. Theone benefit which could come from releasing the design into the public forum is the ability to discuss methods of taking it forward and people working together (perhaps with some funding from Quanta's coffers and interested traders) to spread the risk and workload. Not long ago, we were bemoaning the lack of keyboard membranes for the QL and the prohibitive costs of such a project. Believe it or not, we now have to keep returning to the manufacturer for some more. It was a successful and worthwhile project and has certainly helped to keep RWAP Services running and able to support the Sinclairs. Yes, nice to hear some optimism again ... :-) Something new doesn't have to be rocket science ... and try to do everything, and be costly to both produce and sell. There is still room for more modest hardware projects to succeed. The general fact is that many people have more disposable income now, than ever before, and they can be willing to put some of that in to their interests and hobbies - as well enjoy the latest PC, ipod or flat screen TV. I store quite a lot of old QL items, donated, for the London Quanta Group. A while ago the value was dropping downwards. Whereas now the value is rising up again. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Neil Riley wrote: GoMMC, a RomDisq on steroids but with the opportunity to remove the mem card, excellent. Once again, Id buy one if developed for the QL. How would it sound if a SD/MMC device for SuperGoldCard, Q40 and Q60 had already been prototyped and a free software to access it was already written? Peter I would say get it on the market ! -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Roy wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Those of us who went to the Sinclair show in Norwich a couple of years ago had a very strong impression that the Spectrum has not moved on to the same extent as the QL. We saw stall after stall selling Spectrum hardware and software that we remembered using in our Spectrum days. The only QL stall selling similar vintage QL software was Simon Goodwins. I was about to write the same thing. The Spectrum has not 'moved on' or got 'up to date'. The scene is only stronger than the QL because people like playing the retro games (maybe because, given the age of the users, the modern ones are too hard for them to take in). It was obvious at that show that the QL was light years ahead of the Spectrum and equally obvious that we had no software to offer. There is not one piece of software for the QL that would tempt someone to get into the QL scene. Probably the only exception is QWord, which can be installed on a native QL system that has a QXL capacity, or a foreign system like a PC. It is also well packaged on a CD, and is easy to install. Not that I am a word game fan, really. The QL has moved on much further than the Spectrum with hardware. We have some exceptional QL emulators, and good range of technical utilities - like Launchpad and QDT. Unfortunately the applications are not being newly written to take full advantage; and the updates to older software are only partial. Usually done a good will basis. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Graf [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes David McCann wrote: The QL no longer has enough users to make commercial products viable, nor to produce enough programmers to support open-source products. True, but why does nobody seem to see that it's possible to get help from friendly open source folks outside the QL scene? There is good, nearly QL style code out there, it just needs to be discovered and adapted. Open source doesn't necessarily mean *nix. Some time ago I had a good degree of success in a few QL software projects, that could mean a decade of sparetime work, if done without help. That I didn't release them, was mostly because there was no decent open source OS covering the major QL targets. (I mean open source in the definition of the real world, so it is possible to link code from the real world, and to involve persons who just can't be motivated by a proprietary system.) Some collaborative and cross-over projects like that would be great to see on the QL. Like you I remain optimistic. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
On Thu, 2007-02-15 at 23:02 +0100, Peter Graf wrote: I don't think Richard gave up UQLX. Some other QL wheels also need to be turned, so there may be different priorities. Usually, if you email him, he sends you more recent code. Then why is the old, uncompilable version still on his website, a site which hasn't been updated since 2002? This ties in with the problem that other people raised last night about the availability of documentation. There is too much work which has been done but which is inaccessible for others to build on. One of the many reasons I have for preferring SuperBasic to XBasic is the availability of dbas. But this is another project which got abandoned. I may be out of date, but the last time I looked the version supplied with the commercial front end for it (can't remember the name) was older than the one I'm using (2.13). Quanta had a copy of the commented source code, not for inclusion in the library (why?), but they lost it ... I even bought a Q60 to stay in the QL world (a step further than most of those reading this rant!), but my experiences (recounted in QL Today) were hardly encouraging. Bad documentation and lack of help. For example, my query about how to run Text87 on it was circulated on the internet and in Quanta, yet it took two years to find the answer: by accident. By that time, I'd naturally switched to OpenOffice. I liked the QL and its operating system (rather Unix-like in a way), but I fear the QL community are their own worse enemies. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] USBwiz USB to serial device
In a message dated 16/02/2007 10:52:22 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Recent issue of Nuts Volts has article by Jan Axelson. She writes about USBwiz from GHI Electronics. Priced at about $50, allows serial to USB communication. Her site is Lvr.com and ghi is at ghielectronics.com Any opinions as to whether QL could work with USBwiz ? Herb Schaaf This is the sort of development that should be do able. The device can be driven by I2C commands, the hardware connections are well documented, it is designed for hobbyists, drivers in C are provided, the suppliers claim it can be driven by any processor including motoralla. I2C drivers of a type exist for the QL for the Minerva ROM. no doubt there would be work to do to make it happen but less than designing bespoke hardware from the ground up. UK suppliers have it on sale for £30 a piece with development rigs for £150 - a lot less than the £1000s suggested before. Duncan ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons
- Original Message - From: Roy wood To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Hardware and software - new horizons But just a provocative thought. Have you ever tried to connect a USB only laptop to a parallel printer? PC World don't know the answer to that one, but I do mainly because of my QL experience of looking for solutions to problems, That is easy - there is a specific bale to do it or a USB port replicator. I have both even though my laptop has a parallel port. I mentioned this to raise the point that it is not only in the QL world that you sometimes have unusable hardware. The largest PC company in the country is not interested in solving problems like that as they would rather sell you a new printer. More usable products being dumped in landfill. At least we QL-ers have been good recyclers. I just reasoned that if SH could produce a serial to parallel interface with all the electronics in the cable, then some bright spark could do something similar for a potentially bigger market. On the specific point of USB to parallel interfaces, Maplin's are currently selling these as a special offer. They are obviously old stock as the installation information is for Windows98, but they work perfectly with XP once you have figured out how to install, Best Wishes, Geoff. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Quanta membership
- Original Message - From: Malcolm Cadman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [ql-users] Quanta membership Yes, it obviously very difficult to get a response back from members who have left. Quanta is small enough for most of the departed to be known names. If I were chairman I would be wanting a list of those names for clues to why they have left. Unfortunately Quanta has never really made the effort to find out anything about its members. The only people to do it in recent years have been John Southern and myself. I was on the committee at the time and neither of our surveys were discussed in any detail. (Mine was totally ignored, John's was just the reporting of the results.) A smaller Quanta is not necessarily a bad thing. If it was more homogenous it would be easier for the committee to serve the members. A Quanta of just 50 people could contribute greatly to the QL community provided they were active members. (And there are probably at least 50 people who attend shows and/or are active in subgroups.) Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] R: ZM/hT full manual ( was: The power of the Internet.)
Hello Rich, I would be grateful if you could send me the ZM/hT and also the ZM/128 doc files (if you revised also that one). Unfortunately I left most of the files on ED disks which I am not able to read anymore. With those manuals I could perhaps find the will to prepare a more decent version for download both of ZM/hT and ZM/128 (though the latter is almost useless with ZeXcel). Thank you Best regards Davide -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Rich Mellor Inviato: mercoledì 14 febbraio 2007 23.18 A: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: Re: [ql-users] ZM/hT full manual ( was: The power of the Internet.) I have the full manual in Quill _doc format should anyone want me to email a copy. Davide - do you not have a full copy to upload to the website? I agree with some of the comments below. Low cost hardware has indeed been developed for the Spectrum, but it is hard to justify spending £30 on parts and then selling fully made up and tested boards for £30-£35. It takes time to solder, test and design the hardware. Plus firmware has to be written - the DivIDE designer was lucky that someone designed FATware for it before launch and did not want payment. However, now we come to design an improved version (DivIDE Plus), this is where we hit the stumbling block - some of the original firmware designers are not interested in going back to a 2-3 year old project and re-writing it to cope with improved hardware and all the new facilities made available - they do not hav ethe time or cannot give it freely, but yet are unwilling to charge for an upgraded version ! Designing hardware for the QL does not seem as easy as for the Spectrum for some reason - possibly due to the difference in the bus and expansion port. There are also a lot less people who can write firmware. I also think that the Spectrum users have much lower expectations than QL users, especially due to the memory paging system on the Spectrum - after all, we could sell a 4MB memory expansion card for the Spectrum, but programs have to page in 16K (?) at a time and therefore you do not get bigger programs being written !! There never were many programs written which utilised the full 128K available on later models, so memory is not an issue. However on the QL, programs are written which can fill all the available memory, as they do not have to worry about how it pages in. The QL has always had a wealth of public domain programs, but unfortunately the user base (and thus the programmer base) has always been a lot smaller than for the Speccy, so there is little incentive to write programs or design new hardware. Rich On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:11:06 -, omega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Neil Riley A comment Davide made to me has suddenly hit home. Basically he was pleased that someone was still having fun with his product after some 10 years or more but wait a minute, the spectrum scene is still strong so why on earth isn't ZM/ht etc still commercially available and being advertised on Auction sites like Ebay. With full respect to Davide - he did truly good job with his emulator, I do love it - I wouldn't probably buy it today. This time has gone. I like his approach to provide it for free, which promotes himself better than low selling product. I am from spectrum scene and I cannot believe what some people are writing here. Have you ever think why on earth is the spectrum still so strong? There are knowledged people willing to share for NO PROFIT. This makes the spectrum scene stable, strong and up to date with HW and SW. IDE HDD interface called divIDE (similar to Qubide) is great example of such activity : http://baze.au.com/divide/ Anyone can build it from schematics, buy a DIY kit for 20EURO(!) or buy a complete interface for 30EURO. For 30 EUROs (+/- price of the components) your ZX Spectrum has much higher value and more features. Reward for these authors is only success and feedback from users. Similar trends to have open projects can be seen in Atari scene, Commodore (look at Commodore One), MSX, CPC (look at try out SymbOS) etc. In contrary what I see here on QL scene is still push to commerciality. This doesn't attract newcomers, because unexpanded QL which you buy on ebay with four Psion microdrives is nothing more than poor computer with cool design and potential. Expanding QL is hard and expensive or not possible due to lack of expension cards. At the top of it there are no open source projects to change this status. Software on QL is special category... So, where is the QL heading? I don't want to be missinterpretted - it is nothing against you Neil, but certainly I see here big difference in ZX Scene and QL Scene. btw, as a side question. I have plenty of _Z80 images that ZM/hT expects but i have even more .SNA's. Is anyone aware of a .SNA to _Z80 convertors. Just for fun i renamed .sna to Z80_rom
