Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > > >On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Malcolm Cadman wrote: > >> If the hardware developers can successfully co-operate then it will >> benefit all of us, as users have different needs, as well as different >> amounts that they can afford to spend. > >I am communicating with both the Q60 and goldfire developers. Obviously, >both of them want their platform supported first, and I'm aiming for where >the market is, which is right between them ;) Good communication, and a good point :-) ... you need your own market too. >Here are the key points: The EtherQL will be 100% compatible (bar base >address) with the ethernet which is (and already was) planned for >Goldfire. That part of Goldfire has already progressed well along the >development path. The important thing is to leverage the drivers and >software that would be developed, to make them available to QL-based and >QX0-based machines too. Obviously the first release will fit the QL-base, >because that's what the majority of developers (and customers) have. >Shortly afterwards, a software/driver identical version will be released >for the Q60. The main difference will be the Q60 will support full 10/100 >operation, whereas on a base QL, 100 mbit operation will have to be >disabled. > >If we plan right, the port will also be able to emulate an ultra-fast >traditional net port. A good approach. >The drivers and software issue is more complicated. I'm reaching out now >to those people who have knowledge in the area. I would like to see simple >SuperBASIC socket-handling commands and C libraries supporting it at >launch, and at least one functional program for web, mail and telnet that >works with the card. These people will have cards long before the general >release. > >If anyone else out there is willing and capable to help in one of these >projects, I will happily support you and provide you with any information >you need. If you write software you think you could charge 5 quid for, >I'll happily publish it for you. If you are happy to do it for free, I'll >provide the download site, and bundle it with the card. Registered >developers :) will of course get the most up-to-date and detailed >specs, and first access to the hardware when it is ready. Either way, I >look forward to working with you all... I wish you success with the new development. -- Malcolm Cadman
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
Ummm, yep... Oh, ps, surf to webmail.spodmail.com, use your nasta login ;) On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, ZN wrote: > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:40:25 -0500 > From: ZN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea... > > On 1/16/02 at 3:51 PM Dave wrote: > > >On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, ZN wrote: > > >> I KNOW! Unfortunately I also MUST do other things to a) eat b) not be > >> tossed out of the country c) remain sane > > >Lots of people can help with a) and b), but it's too late for c) ;P > > As for a) and b) after two years of added experience, once again I am > forced to conclude that the key to getting help is to help yourself. It > works for c) too, but it needs rephrasing: > > c) slow down further deterioration of sanity (otherwise I'll end up being > the tri-state guy, can answer simple questions with yes, no, and ga-ga, the > latter accompanied by drooling) > > Does that sound any better? :-) > > Nasta > > >
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
On 1/16/02 at 3:51 PM Dave wrote: >On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, ZN wrote: >> I KNOW! Unfortunately I also MUST do other things to a) eat b) not be >> tossed out of the country c) remain sane >Lots of people can help with a) and b), but it's too late for c) ;P As for a) and b) after two years of added experience, once again I am forced to conclude that the key to getting help is to help yourself. It works for c) too, but it needs rephrasing: c) slow down further deterioration of sanity (otherwise I'll end up being the tri-state guy, can answer simple questions with yes, no, and ga-ga, the latter accompanied by drooling) Does that sound any better? :-) Nasta
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Malcolm Cadman wrote: > If the hardware developers can successfully co-operate then it will > benefit all of us, as users have different needs, as well as different > amounts that they can afford to spend. I am communicating with both the Q60 and goldfire developers. Obviously, both of them want their platform supported first, and I'm aiming for where the market is, which is right between them ;) Here are the key points: The EtherQL will be 100% compatible (bar base address) with the ethernet which is (and already was) planned for Goldfire. That part of Goldfire has already progressed well along the development path. The important thing is to leverage the drivers and software that would be developed, to make them available to QL-based and QX0-based machines too. Obviously the first release will fit the QL-base, because that's what the majority of developers (and customers) have. Shortly afterwards, a software/driver identical version will be released for the Q60. The main difference will be the Q60 will support full 10/100 operation, whereas on a base QL, 100 mbit operation will have to be disabled. If we plan right, the port will also be able to emulate an ultra-fast traditional net port. The drivers and software issue is more complicated. I'm reaching out now to those people who have knowledge in the area. I would like to see simple SuperBASIC socket-handling commands and C libraries supporting it at launch, and at least one functional program for web, mail and telnet that works with the card. These people will have cards long before the general release. If anyone else out there is willing and capable to help in one of these projects, I will happily support you and provide you with any information you need. If you write software you think you could charge 5 quid for, I'll happily publish it for you. If you are happy to do it for free, I'll provide the download site, and bundle it with the card. Registered developers :) will of course get the most up-to-date and detailed specs, and first access to the hardware when it is ready. Either way, I look forward to working with you all... Dave ql.spodmail.com
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I am learning it's a complex market. I like the Q60. I like the idea of >the Goldfire, and I like the work I've seen so far. It's far better than >most of us could manage (myself included) and we need to make it happen, >not slip through our fingers due to lack of interest, or "market forces" >*smiles* I'm not going to deliberately make and sell something that will >make another project suffer. Instead, I'm working closely with Nasta and >others (since Nasta is truly the centre of development atm) to make >*compatible* products that have a market (QL add-ons) that doesn't compete >with the Goldfire or Q60, but enhances both. If the hardware developers can successfully co-operate then it will benefit all of us, as users have different needs, as well as different amounts that they can afford to spend. I would really like my QL system networked with everything else, so it means ethernet is a good option. We do need to enhance our hardware by leaps and bounds, this will then lead to more innovative software being written. -- Malcolm Cadman
RE: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
OOOH that's nasty !! :o) >> May you be infested with the cracks of a thousand keyboard membranes ;P - Norman Dunbar Database/Unix administrator Lynx Financial Systems Ltd. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 0113 289 6265 Fax: 0113 289 3146 URL: http://www.Lynx-FS.com - This email is intended only for the use of the addressees named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not an addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in it, nor copy it, nor inform any person other than Lynx Financial Systems or the addressees of its existence or contents. If you have received this email and are not a named addressee, please delete it and notify the Lynx Financial Systems IT Department on 0113 2892990.
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Phoebus R. Dokos wrote: > So I hear... ;-) How come everyone's heard about this except me and Nasta? ;P > Well at least a sound generating chip even with FM synthesis...As for > samples I am not talking about 16bit stereo 44 KHz sound.. best I could > hope was mono 8 bit 22 KHz... (I think that could be feasible)... If you're willing to spend $50 or $60 on a sound card, and can find 50 others who would, I'll do it. I just happen to have 50 AY-3-8910's here ;) Seriously, tho... The GF has all that. For the 50 or 60 you might spend on a half-decent sound card... Invest the money in a high-interest savings account, and then when the GF arrives, you'll have all the money you need ;) > That's why I said IF possible :-) And that's also why YOU HAVE TO finish > the GF! May you be infested with the cracks of a thousand keyboard membranes ;P Dave ql.spodmail.com
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
At 01:31 ðì 16/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: >On 1/16/02 at 12:29 AM Phoebus R. Dokos wrote: > > >Wy ahead of you there :-) > So I hear... ;-) > >How about a Sound card instead of the IDE (I like the EtherQL idea a > >lot... go on with it)? > >Very difficult on regular QL hardware due to data transfer requirements, >and most importantky, interrupts. This is why it appears on the GF instead. Well at least a sound generating chip even with FM synthesis...As for samples I am not talking about 16bit stereo 44 KHz sound.. best I could hope was mono 8 bit 22 KHz... (I think that could be feasible)... >Unlikely. Both conenct directly to the 68060 bus, NOT to the expansion bus >- and it MUST be a 68060, at full speed. That's why I said IF possible :-) And that's also why YOU HAVE TO finish the GF! >I think you meant QL bus to ISA. It was not a general ISA adapter, only one >that would work with a 8-bit MFM or RLL controller. Oh don't be picky! you know what I meant :-) it's late and I had a glass of champagne too ;-) (Helps to relax...) >Nasta
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
On 1/16/02 at 12:29 AM Phoebus R. Dokos wrote: >Just one thing, the IDE (w/ CF on) is already designed and practically >ready (as released sometime ago by Nasta) (called the QubIDE II) Maybe >you should work with him on the subject ;-) Wy ahead of you there :-) >How about a Sound card instead of the IDE (I like the EtherQL idea a >lot... go on with it)? Very difficult on regular QL hardware due to data transfer requirements, and most importantky, interrupts. This is why it appears on the GF instead. >Even better how about designing an Q40/60 ISA to GF bus adapter? So any >potential cards for the GF could be used by the Q60 (maybe even the second >processor if that is possible or the graphics part of the card) Unlikely. Both conenct directly to the 68060 bus, NOT to the expansion bus - and it MUST be a 68060, at full speed. >IIRC there was an QL bus to IDE adapter designed sometime (a long time) >ago for use with ST-506 MFM 8 bit ISA HDD controllers for the QL I think you meant QL bus to ISA. It was not a general ISA adapter, only one that would work with a 8-bit MFM or RLL controller. Nasta
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Phoebus R. Dokos wrote: > Just one thing, the IDE (w/ CF on) is already designed and practically > ready (as released sometime ago by Nasta) (called the QubIDE II) Maybe > you should work with him on the subject ;-) Maybe I am? ;P > How about a Sound card instead of the IDE (I like the EtherQL idea a lot... > go on with it)? Well, I'd like to do lots of things, but... I have to prioritise. The QL really needs ethernet, for a lot of reasons... QubIDE 2 is almost ready, and may come in different forms and packages with different names. It's a really small community - there are only a handful of people capable of designing quality boards, and luckily, they're happy to share their work for the benefit of the community. It makes sense to capitalise on that work, with permission, to make a card that has a similar basic cost and added functionality for the cost of two extra devices... There are so many options. Nasta has clear views about the direction he'd like to take. I have less clear views, and a different direction. With a bit of co-operation all round, and careful planning, you could see separate, compatible products emerging. For example... (And I'm going to sound a lot like Nasta here ;) Soon, out of necessity but also because of developments, we'll have to move away from the original QL format and expansion methods. The expansion port. Backplanes. Yck. (Ok, I don't sound like Nasta. He wouldn't say "Yuck" when 500 words would do ;) These expansion cards must be useful, of interest to the few dedicated dealers, and add something that's wanted. Sound doesn't rate too highly on that list, imvvvho. What we do need is new IDE interfaces out there. With support, and features people want, like CF adaptors and ethernet. What's cool about ethernet is it doesn't just have to be used as ethernet. Use the native networking protocol... How fast would that be? Now think Real Time Operating System. One of many options to increase volumes and reduce prices for everyone. Remember, I work at an ISP, and am surrounded by machines connected by ethernet. A 10baseT connection is more important than a power supply! That's the way the world is going. Sure, it's a 1984 machine, but if you want to use it in 2004, you better have ethernet. I am learning it's a complex market. I like the Q60. I like the idea of the Goldfire, and I like the work I've seen so far. It's far better than most of us could manage (myself included) and we need to make it happen, not slip through our fingers due to lack of interest, or "market forces" *smiles* I'm not going to deliberately make and sell something that will make another project suffer. Instead, I'm working closely with Nasta and others (since Nasta is truly the centre of development atm) to make *compatible* products that have a market (QL add-ons) that doesn't compete with the Goldfire or Q60, but enhances both. Remember, after Goldfire, Aurora II (crosses fingers) could make all existing QLs, SQBs, Auroras, QubIDEs etc redundant. A thriving 2nd hand market overnight. This could (probably will) take years... Should the QL be devoid of ethernet and fast IDE (a la QubIDE2) in the meantime? > Even better how about designing an Q40/60 ISA to GF bus adapter? Noted. I'll do a feasability study (a.k.a. ask Nasta ;) Actually, I imagine it would be very simple... What else, besides a sound card? (I don't use sound, and the beep was quaint, ok? ;) Dave ql.spodmail.com (Look in your closets and cupboards, find some QL items you want to sell, and post them on the For Sale/Wanted list at ql.spodmail.com - hardware *wants* to be used! ;)
Re: [ql-users] Another floating idea...
At 03:32 ðì 16/1/2002 +, you wrote: >Once again, no promises. I'm just floating this idea to monitor the >comments and criticisms, to help me shape the future shape of my projects. > > > >Although it would be possible to provide the board with ethernet and no >IDE, this makes no economic sense, so for those just wanting ethernet, a >smaller board would be provided. > >Comments? Criticisms? Just one thing, the IDE (w/ CF on) is already designed and practically ready (as released sometime ago by Nasta) (called the QubIDE II) Maybe you should work with him on the subject ;-) How about a Sound card instead of the IDE (I like the EtherQL idea a lot... go on with it)? Even better how about designing an Q40/60 ISA to GF bus adapter? So any potential cards for the GF could be used by the Q60 (maybe even the second processor if that is possible or the graphics part of the card) IIRC there was an QL bus to IDE adapter designed sometime (a long time) ago for use with ST-506 MFM 8 bit ISA HDD controllers for the QL Phoebus >Dave >ql.spodmail.com
[ql-users] Another floating idea...
Once again, no promises. I'm just floating this idea to monitor the comments and criticisms, to help me shape the future shape of my projects. I'm going to outline an imaginary product. A full size QL expansion card with the following specification: 2 IDE channels, supporting 4 IDE devices. Standard headers. 1 IDE device supporting a CompactFlash adapter (on board) and a 2.5", 2.5GB standard 5200RPM IDE HD, on board. 1 optional 10/100 ethernet interface. The board would have two configurations: Standard, which would have the IDE circuitry, and compact flash adaptor. It could, in this configuration, come as standard with a 2.5GB drive, on board. The drive could be omitted if required. EtherIDE, which would be as above, plus 10/100 ethernet. The interface would automatically configure as a 10mbit interface if connected to a QL, and 10/100 if connected to a processor fast enough to handle 10/100 (680X0 25MHz+, say) Although it would be possible to provide the board with ethernet and no IDE, this makes no economic sense, so for those just wanting ethernet, a smaller board would be provided. Comments? Criticisms? Dave ql.spodmail.com
