Re: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions

2002-04-25 Thread Richard Zidlicky

On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 06:46:45AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 24 Apr 2002, at 22:59, Richard Zidlicky wrote:
 
  nope, the problem is more complicated, I guess you have formatted 
  that QXL.WIN file on a QPC drive.
 
 That's true.
  On Q40/Q60 and Atari the IDE bus is connected to the CPU bus
  in such a way that data comming from the HD appears 16-bit
  byte reversed as compared when you attach the same drive
  to PC-ish hardware. 
 
 Oh, so it still is the wrong way round on the drive?

nobody ever defined what is the correct way for HD drives.
It is of course defined for CD's so Theirry's driver takes
care of it in this case.
 
  Traditionally swapping hard disks was 
  not seen as useful or common enough to compensate this in 
  software, afaics only Linux has an option for it.
 It's true that I don't often take the disk out of the Q60 to put it in a 
 PC - what with hotswappable drives... So, if I did this,the content of 
 a QXLWIN file would seem to be byte reversed?

yes, you need to swap 16bit words.

Richard




RE: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions

2002-04-24 Thread Ian . Pine

Binary words in MC68000 are MSB LSB but the same on intel will 
be LSB MSB
(and the Z80 is that way araoiund as well).

Why ?
Must be a hardware thing, I always write my numbers MSB LSB myself.

The reason, as I heard it, was to save clock cycles in indexed addressing modes.  If 
you fetch the LSB of the address/offset first, you can be adding the LSB of the 
index/base to it while fetching the MSB.  Intel CPUs did not have indexed addressing 
until 8086/88 so the technique was redundant really.  The 6502 had indexed addressing 
and 8 bit ALU so little-endian architecture did save clock cycles.  I guess the 
designers fall into either the big-endian or little-endian camps and stay there, even 
when they move on and set up new companies, or new product ranges.   Once you've 
chosen a particular architecture, compatibility across the range becomes a 
consideration too.

Ian.

-Original Message-
From: Norman Dunbar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 24 April 2002 11:29
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions


Wolfgang,

it's not 'stupid' it's Intel 'little Endian' format.
OK, it *is* stupid :o)

Binary words in MC68000 are MSB LSB but the same on intel will 
be LSB MSB
(and the Z80 is that way araoiund as well).

Why ?
Must be a hardware thing, I always write my numbers MSB LSB myself.

I'm sure Nasta will know why it is/was done this way around.


Cheers,
Norman.

-
Norman Dunbar
Database/Unix administrator
Lynx Financial Systems Ltd.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: 0113 289 6265
Fax: 0113 289 3146
URL: http://www.Lynx-FS.com
-


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions


On 23 Apr 2002, at 16:27, Phoebus Dokos wrote:

 Yep it works and the interesting part is that unfortunately 
he cannot test

 it himself as his CF adapter has some problems which I hope 
he'll soon 
 solve either by a minor change or by a replacement (by me).
 Talk about SuperScalar programming... It works even if you 
don't use the

 device yourself!
Well, all the kudos here must go to  hell, I don't know, whoever 
is responsible for the Compact Flash reader behaving like a hard 
drive.

Actually, you just open a winx_*d2d file to the hard disk that is 
the compact flash reader. With one exception, it then behaves like 
a normal hard disk. So, to test this I just used another partition...

The exception is that a compact disk stroes bytes within a word in 
teh wrong order. Normally, the first four bytes in a QL hard disk 
partition are QLWA. Don't ask me what it means, I can undertand 
the QL part, but the rest...

Well, anyway, on a compact flash, this would be LQAW. Stupid, 
really. The software takes care of that.

Oh, and whilst we're talking about partitions, there is a curious 
feature of partitions and accessing them via a winx_*d2d file on 
the Q60.

Suppose you have a hard disk with 3 partitions (all 3 of them QL 
partitions of course, none of that Linux stuff :-) )

You would probably use something like:

win_drive 1,0,0,0
win_drive 2,0,0,1
win_drive 3,0,0,2

to access the different partitions. You would then expect a 
win3_*d2d direct sector access file to open to the 3rd partition on 
the drive - not so, IT WILL OPEN to the very first sector of the 
physical disk (i.e. the partition table)- the same for win1_*d2d and 
win2_*d2d.
It's not a problem, as long as you are aware of this.

Wolfgang
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RE: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions

2002-04-24 Thread Norman Dunbar

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions

 I generally write my numbers with a keyboard, myself. 
 :-)


PEDANTIC
I use a pen or pencil to write them.
I type them on a keyboard
/PEDANTIC

:o)

Cheers,
Norman.

-
Norman Dunbar
Database/Unix administrator
Lynx Financial Systems Ltd.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: 0113 289 6265
Fax: 0113 289 3146
URL: http://www.Lynx-FS.com
-


This email is intended only for the use of the addressees named above and
may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not an addressee you
must not read it and must not use any information contained in it, nor copy
it, nor inform any person other than Lynx Financial Systems or the
addressees of its existence or contents.  If you have received this email
and are not a named addressee, please delete it and notify the Lynx
Financial Systems IT Department on 0113 2892990.



Re: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions

2002-04-24 Thread Richard Zidlicky

On Wed, Apr 24, 2002 at 02:15:12PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 24 Apr 2002, at 11:28, Norman Dunbar wrote:
 
  Wolfgang,
  
  it's not 'stupid' it's Intel 'little Endian' format.
 
 I know, I know, it's still stupid.
 
  OK, it *is* stupid :o)
 
 Yeah right. Why doesn't the same thing happen in a QXL.WIN file 
 under QPC on a hard disk (answer: Marcel isn't stupid).

nope, the problem is more complicated, I guess you have formatted 
that QXL.WIN file on a QPC drive.

On Q40/Q60 and Atari the IDE bus is connected to the CPU bus
in such a way that data comming from the HD appears 16-bit
byte reversed as compared when you attach the same drive
to PC-ish hardware. Traditionally swapping hard disks was 
not seen as useful or common enough to compensate this in 
software, afaics only Linux has an option for it.

To make matters more interesting, the bus-order and cpu-order
accidentally eliminate each other's effect when 16 bit data 
is accessed and the drive contains little endian data.

To summarise: there is a bus-endian and a cpu-endianness
issue. CPU is the same for QPC and Q40/Q60 so you only see
the bus-endian issue. If you want to use Q40 hard disks on 
PC hardware you need to use the 'hdX=swapdata' option (linux) 
for this drive.. anyone knows equivalent option for WinXX?

Richard



Re: [ql-users] QXLWIN v1.06 and partitions

2002-04-24 Thread wlenerz

On 24 Apr 2002, at 22:59, Richard Zidlicky wrote:

 nope, the problem is more complicated, I guess you have formatted 
 that QXL.WIN file on a QPC drive.

That's true.
 On Q40/Q60 and Atari the IDE bus is connected to the CPU bus
 in such a way that data comming from the HD appears 16-bit
 byte reversed as compared when you attach the same drive
 to PC-ish hardware. 

Oh, so it still is the wrong way round on the drive?

 Traditionally swapping hard disks was 
 not seen as useful or common enough to compensate this in 
 software, afaics only Linux has an option for it.
It's true that I don't often take the disk out of the Q60 to put it in a 
PC - what with hotswappable drives... So, if I did this,the content of 
a QXLWIN file would seem to be byte reversed?

 To summarise: there is a bus-endian and a cpu-endianness
 issue. CPU is the same for QPC and Q40/Q60 so you only see
 the bus-endian issue. If you want to use Q40 hard disks on 
 PC hardware you need to use the 'hdX=swapdata' option (linux) 
 for this drive.. anyone knows equivalent option for WinXX?

No, never heard of it.
Wolfgang