Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Phoebus Dokos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes At 07:46 ìì 10/4/2002, you wrote: Plus you need a good editor ... the Editor or MicroEmacs I would recommended - I use both. Personally I use QD and you can buy it from Jochen too so this is not an advert. QD is one of the best programming (and more) editors I've ever used too :-) (If only it weren't for that weird block function... I know I know Jochen don't beat me with it... You have made your opinion known too many times and in any case you programmed the thing so you can have it your way :-)) I suggested to Dave to start off with MicroEmacs as since he's been using Linux he would be a known environment (QD is FAR EASIER TO WORK WITH than MicroEmacs :-) Yes, I figured that Dave would probably already be familar with MicroEmacs ... with his programming background. Thierry has also made a very good job of getting it in to the QL, as it also uses the PE. I use little of the vast array of features with MicroEmacs, yet they are all easily available with a menu choice, so I don't see it as being difficult to use. The Editor, on the other hand, is command line driven, which you have to learn. I haven't used QD, yet I am sure it is excellent. Just shows how lucky we are to have so many good editors for the QL ! I don't know how many people have tried MasterBasic - now it is freeware - it is very good for knowing about your BASIC program. it was written some time ago, so is not PE. Yet it uses its own very convenient menu system to navigate the extensive features. The great thing about the QL is the multi-tasking OS - so several programs can be in memory, and easily switched between. With a programming project this really does come to the fore as an advantage. -- Malcolm Cadman
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
Dexter wrote: Last week, I used a GOTO! Careful, that's an offence you can be locked up for in QL-land. Probably OK between consenting QLs in private though ;-) The late Joe Haftke used to have a good reply in favour of his use of GOTOs each time I nagged him about not needing them in S*BASIC. He would say short GOTOs to a line no further than a screenful of lines was OK (i.e. if you could see the destination line). -- Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/index.html
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
In article 009201c1e151$c485fb00$38075cc3@default, Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Dexter wrote: Last week, I used a GOTO! Careful, that's an offence you can be locked up for in QL-land. Probably OK between consenting QLs in private though ;-) The late Joe Haftke used to have a good reply in favour of his use of GOTOs each time I nagged him about not needing them in S*BASIC. He would say short GOTOs to a line no further than a screenful of lines was OK (i.e. if you could see the destination line). Yes, Joe used to defend his 'style' with vigour at the London Quanta group meetings. However, he was in a minority of one ... -- Malcolm Cadman
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
At 02:18 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, you wrote: Definitely a must-read :-) Tim is extremely talented in making even the most complex subjects easy to understand... Ok, was that $5 or $10 for the glowing remarks. :-) Tim
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
At 11:22 ìì 11/4/2002, you wrote: At 02:18 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, you wrote: Definitely a must-read :-) Tim is extremely talented in making even the most complex subjects easy to understand... Ok, was that $5 or $10 for the glowing remarks. :-) Tim Ahhh don't mention it... just send the check this way :-D... Seriously though, you are REALLY good at it :-) So was the Army (Air Force) to blame for that? Phoebus
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
At 12:48 AM 4/12/2002 -0400, you wrote: Seriously though, you are REALLY good at it :-) So was the Army (Air Force) to blame for that? Phoebus Well, I did spend 8.5 years as an Air Force Officer, but I don't know if my writing style was affected by my service time. AF writing is more like dry business writing. Tim
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
In a message dated 09/04/02 21:31:45 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been working on the Qeyboard, and pushing for ethernet hardware to be available, so we can help John Dent finish his TCP/IP stack - which I suspect will do more for the QL than most realise. I've also signed up to write an email client for all. Signed up, in the "I'm dedicating myself to this task" sense of the word. However, I've been away for a very long time, and have forgotten most of my QL-related programming knowledge, having become fat and lazy with my bash shell and gcc compiler. Therefore, I'm asking you what tools you think I should take advantage of and what tools to avoid. I have to build a software library from scratch, which I am sure will make the traders happy ;) Hmmm let me see... Presuming you plan to program this in BASIC, I would suggest you need at least the following: Qliberator or Turbo compiler (Turbo is still the fastest and PD) QRef cross-reference tool EasyPTR - definite must to create menus. Q-Help - gives info on using all keywords (plug for my software at last) Rich Mellor RWAP Software 7 Common Road, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JR TEL: 01977 614299 http://hometown.aol.co.uk/rwapsoftware
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
At 07:46 ìì 10/4/2002, you wrote: Plus you need a good editor ... the Editor or MicroEmacs I would recommended - I use both. Personally I use QD and you can buy it from Jochen too so this is not an advert. QD is one of the best programming (and more) editors I've ever used too :-) (If only it weren't for that weird block function... I know I know Jochen don't beat me with it... You have made your opinion known too many times and in any case you programmed the thing so you can have it your way :-)) I suggested to Dave to start off with MicroEmacs as since he's been using Linux he would be a known environment (QD is FAR EASIER TO WORK WITH than MicroEmacs :-)
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
At 07:46 ìì 10/4/2002, you wrote: Plus you need a good editor ... the Editor or MicroEmacs I would recommended - I use both. The Editor is so much like Norton Editor, but however fast and small it is I can't really use it anymore... Not after using QD at least :-) Phoebus
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
Dexter wrote: Incidently, pico is the default editor used by pine, and therefore the behaviour of the editor in Qemail will be very like pico. Funny that. :o) Writing a (usable!) editor is a long and cumbersome task that other people have done before. So why don't you just call an existing editor and concentrate on doing something new? I mean, that's the way linux programs do it, too, isn't it? Marcel
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Marcel Kilgus wrote: Writing a (usable!) editor is a long and cumbersome task that other people have done before. So why don't you just call an existing editor and concentrate on doing something new? I mean, that's the way linux programs do it, too, isn't it? Yup. I just want to avoid the whole scenario where I have to include the editor with the email client, and/or require someone to download/buy a specific editor, when what is required is really straightforward as editors go. That said, I come from the old school of programming. When you learned to program on a PDP 11/780, then a Pet 3032, ZX80, ZX81, QL, Acorn and so forth, you resist the new stuff and try what you know... Last week, I used a GOTO! As the locals say, I'm not the loudest rattlesnake in the bush, but I'm the orneryest ;) Dave
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
At 01:11 AM 4/11/2002 +0100, you wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Phoebus Dokos wrote: I suggested to Dave to start off with MicroEmacs as since he's been using Linux he would be a known environment (QD is FAR EASIER TO WORK WITH than MicroEmacs :-) If it's anything like emacs, I'll pass... I'm a pico person :o) MicroEmacs is really nothing like Emacs. The version done by Thierry has menus so that the command keystrokes really don't need to be memorized. The problem with MicroEmacs is that it can be a bit slow on a Gold Card QL (which is what I am currently using). A simpler editor is QED, which is a clone of Metacomco's ED. QED is fast, small, and fairly easy to use. It even allows for simple macros. MicroEmacs has a full macro language (with conditional statements and loops), plus it can execute other programs. As for programming, if you are using SuperBasic, I might suggest looking into Structured SuperBasic. It's a S*Basic preprocess and filter. It allows SB code to look like C or Pascal with spaces and no line numbers. It also allows preprocess command like conditional compilation, just the C preprocessor does. It's free and plug I wrote it. You can use MicroEmacs and use a macro that will save the file and execute Structured SuperBasic, and then call Qliberator (working on a Turbo compatible version). So, you can do all of the compiling process without leaving MicroEmacs. BTW, On my web page (www.geocities.com/svenqhj/) is my SuperBasic Source Book that covers some details about using Qlib, plus a bunch about freeware tools for SB programming. It's a few years old, you might find it usefull. I cover a number of freeware toolkits available (and possibly some commercial, but I can't remember). SSB is also on my web page. Tim Swenson
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
At 11:49 ìì 10/4/2002, you wrote: At 01:11 AM 4/11/2002 +0100, you wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Phoebus Dokos wrote: I suggested to Dave to start off with MicroEmacs as since he's been using Linux he would be a known environment (QD is FAR EASIER TO WORK WITH than MicroEmacs :-) If it's anything like emacs, I'll pass... I'm a pico person :o) MicroEmacs is really nothing like Emacs. The version done by Thierry has menus so that the command keystrokes really don't need to be memorized. The problem with MicroEmacs is that it can be a bit slow on a Gold Card QL (which is what I am currently using). A simpler editor is QED, which is a clone of Metacomco's ED. QED is fast, small, and fairly easy to use. It even allows for simple macros. MicroEmacs has a full macro language (with conditional statements and loops), plus it can execute other programs. True although I always found the menus in MicroEmacs to be more confusing than helpful! As for it's Macro language it's indeed one of its best features :-) As for programming, if you are using SuperBasic, I might suggest looking into Structured SuperBasic. It's a S*Basic preprocess and filter. It allows SB code to look like C or Pascal with spaces and no line numbers. It also allows preprocess command like conditional compilation, just the C preprocessor does. It's free and plug I wrote it. You can use MicroEmacs and use a macro that will save the file and execute Structured SuperBasic, and then call Qliberator (working on a Turbo compatible version). So, you can do all of the compiling process without leaving MicroEmacs. SSB by Tim is really great... Fired up by some old QL magazines etc. Tim sent me, I plan on working on it to make it Turbo compatible myself when I finish Q-Word and advance my GUI project a little :-) Probably during my vacation :-) (Yep with a notebook by the beach :-)) Now that's hard core QLing folks :-) BTW, On my web page (www.geocities.com/svenqhj/) is my SuperBasic Source Book that covers some details about using Qlib, plus a bunch about freeware tools for SB programming. It's a few years old, you might find it usefull. I cover a number of freeware toolkits available (and possibly some commercial, but I can't remember). SSB is also on my web page. Definitely a must-read :-) Tim is extremely talented in making even the most complex subjects easy to understand... Must be his army (or was that airforce?) training :-) (One can NEVER imagine what he'll see in the Army hehehehehe - Been there done that :-) Also Rich Mellor's SuperBasic/QDOS Manual is EXTREMELY well done... Only seen portions of it... I still haven't gotten around to contact Al Boehm and get a copy :- Phoebus
[ql-users] Suggestions...
Ok, As many of you know, I have been away for some time, and am freshly back in the fold :o) I've been working on the Qeyboard, and pushing for ethernet hardware to be available, so we can help John Dent finish his TCP/IP stack - which I suspect will do more for the QL than most realise. I've also signed up to write an email client for all. Signed up, in the I'm dedicating myself to this task sense of the word. However, I've been away for a very long time, and have forgotten most of my QL-related programming knowledge, having become fat and lazy with my bash shell and gcc compiler. Therefore, I'm asking you what tools you think I should take advantage of and what tools to avoid. I have to build a software library from scratch, which I am sure will make the traders happy ;) Also, the way I am writing my mail client will practically require an 80 column width, and reasonably 25 rows. What suggestions do people have to do that, make it functional, and not be a screen hog? Finally, I plan to make the project Open Source in the true sense of the word. I will publish the sources and others are free to work on them. All I ask is that they feed back any improvements to me so they can be incorporated into my main release. The initial program would most likely be in SBASIC, to demonstrate the sections and modules (emails viewer, email viewer, editor, config, etc) but when I get back into the flow, I would prefer to go with C. Also, I have very kindly been loaned a Gold Card. This will open up some horizons for me, but I do want to make sure the program will run on even the most basic QL. Advice please! Dave http://ql.spodmail.com/
Re: [ql-users] Suggestions...
However, I've been away for a very long time, and have forgotten most of my QL-related programming knowledge, having become fat and lazy with my bash shell and gcc compiler. Therefore, I'm asking you what tools you think I should take advantage of and what tools to avoid. I have to build a software library from scratch, which I am sure will make the traders happy ;) All of the C68 stuff should be OK (Dave Walker's website). There are a few good assemblers about, including the QMac (I think I've got the name wrong...anyone remember the correct name?) from Quanta. Most of the C tools have pointer utilities. C68, QMenu, QPTR and Easyptr all have these. Also, the way I am writing my mail client will practically require an 80 column width, and reasonably 25 rows. What suggestions do people have to do that, make it functional, and not be a screen hog? Try to allow it to use higher resolutions where available. See the file DISPLAY.ZIP (display_cde) in the software downloads part of my website for commented assembler source I used to write the hires display handler extensions). It might be worth you contacting Jonathan Hudson and Richard Zidlicky too, as they have both been involved in various ways with TCP/IP, email etc for QDOS. Richard is on this list, Jonathan's email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jonathan Hudson did start work on porting a small TCP/IP system (free sources he got for an embedded controller device IIRC) but I don't know how far he got with it. -- Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/index.html
