QSBMF
I know, this has been in the list too many times... Anyway, I have reeded some of the threads with discussion about this. They all start with someone who want to change the content of the bounce message. The arguments used to not change the bounce message is that it will probably broke the QSBMF format. And there is a lot of people who say they can not se any reason to change the content in these messages. Well there is a good reason, there is not only english speaking people in the world. I have readed about the QSBMF format and here are some thoughts: First of all, the start in this message is not good for a automatic sended message. A message starting with Hi looks like an mail written by a human person and can be confusing for them who just know a little english. A much better way to start this kind of message is This is a automatic generated failure message from qmail bla bla bla But I realise this is to late to change now. So I hope noone will, because it will make a lot of trubble for mailing list servers. Changing the first paragraph, will not break the QSBMF format as long it start with Hi. This is the because that is what identifies these messages. After the first paragraph in this message there is a paragraph with the recipient adress that failed. The fisrt line of this paragraph begins whit and it ends with : The remaing lines in this paragraph can be changed to whatever you want. I think there should be no problem to add paragraphs in diffrent languages between the first paragraph and the one with the recipient address that failed without break the QSBMF format so it not works. Here is the reason why: Paragraphs beginning with other characters are reserved for future extensions. Paragraphes what not begin with Hi. This is the, and - is reserved for future use. So if a program handling QSBMF do not work because of adding a paragraph in another langue that not begins on those ways, that program do not follow the QSBMF program and is broken. And because of many has requested to write this message in diffrent languages, I think a paragraph for language independent messages should be considered into the QSBMF format. I mean there is paragraphes reserved for future use. And maybe the future is here now. For them who want to change the message, I think you can go ahead and do it. As long the first paragraph start with Hi. This is the and the recipient paragraph first line is not changed. And the end with the break paragraph with starting with - is still where and the original message after that. If someone add paragraphes in diffrent languages there could be a good idea to start it with a alpha-character so there still can be other paragraphes added in the future starting with other characters. But I think a good idea could be to have all text in the message in english to because of that is the most used language on the internet. Program using bounce message for any reason, that not can handle a bounce message that is like this is broken and should be fixed. Andreas
Re: QSBMF
* Andreas Grip [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010724 13:37]: I know, this has been in the list too many times... Okay, so let's go to http://cr.yp.to/proto/qsbmf.txt and find out what the final truth is. Yes, you can make your own bounce messages. And yes, you can make them QSBMF-compliant. The trick is to keep the first paragraph from the original, and sticking you own text below _with_no_blank_lines_in_between._ You could, of course, have a line containing only a space between the original text and your text. Or, if you don't trust all parsers, a dash or two - but not three! Example: --- snip --- Date: 17 Mar 1996 03:54:40 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: failure notice Hi. This is the qmail-send program at silverton.berkeley.edu. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. - Hej. Detta är programmet qmail-send på silverton.berkeley.edu. Jag kunde tyvärr inte leverera meddelandet till följande adresser. Detta är ett permanent fel; jag har gett upp. Ledsen att det inte fungerade. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sorry, I couldn't find any host by that name. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 317 invoked by uid 7); 17 Mar 1996 03:54:38 - Date: 17 Mar 1996 03:54:38 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. J. Bernstein) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: are you there? Just checking. --- snap --- Or, you may want to find a less strict (and less funny-sounding) swedish translation. [Who is the Mailer-Daemon and why is he reading my mail?] -Johan -- Johan Almqvist http://www.almqvist.net/johan/qmail/ PGP signature
Re: QSBMF
Johan Almqvist wrote: * Andreas Grip [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010724 13:37]: I know, this has been in the list too many times... Okay, so let's go to http://cr.yp.to/proto/qsbmf.txt and find out what the final truth is. Yes, you can make your own bounce messages. And yes, you can make them QSBMF-compliant. The trick is to keep the first paragraph from the original, and sticking you own text below _with_no_blank_lines_in_between._ You could, of course, have a line containing only a space between the original text and your text. Or, if you don't trust all parsers, a dash or two - but not three! There should be no problem to have a blank line either. Beacuse the recipt paragraph always begins with . And all other paragraphs is reserved for future use. And I guess there would be no future version of QSBMF... Example: --- snip --- Date: 17 Mar 1996 03:54:40 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: failure notice Hi. This is the qmail-send program at silverton.berkeley.edu. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. - Hej. Detta är programmet qmail-send på silverton.berkeley.edu. Jag kunde tyvärr inte leverera meddelandet till följande adresser. Detta är ett permanent fel; jag har gett upp. Ledsen att det inte fungerade. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sorry, I couldn't find any host by that name. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 317 invoked by uid 7); 17 Mar 1996 03:54:38 - Date: 17 Mar 1996 03:54:38 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. J. Bernstein) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: are you there? Just checking. --- snap --- Or, you may want to find a less strict (and less funny-sounding) swedish translation. [Who is the Mailer-Daemon and why is he reading my mail?] -Johan -- Johan Almqvist http://www.almqvist.net/johan/qmail/ Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature
Re: QSBMF
On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 01:37:50PM +0200, Andreas Grip wrote: I know, this has been in the list too many times... Then you should've just pointed to, for instance: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmailm=99366089430160w=2 As for the arguments for and against, it's more a matter of questioning why the requester would want to do it, to see if there might be a neater way of achieving his/her objective without hacking code. Happens all the time 'round these parts. 8-) -- Adrian HoTinker, Drifter, Fixer, Bum [EMAIL PROTECTED] ListArchive: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmail Useful URLs: http://cr.yp.to/qmail.html http://www.qmail.org http://www.lifewithqmail.org/ http://qmail.faqts.com/
Re: QSBMF
Johan Almqvist wrote: * Andreas Grip [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010724 14:30]: Johan Almqvist wrote: Okay, so let's go to http://cr.yp.to/proto/qsbmf.txt and find out what the final truth is. Yes, you can make your own bounce messages. And yes, you can make them QSBMF-compliant. The trick is to keep the first paragraph from the original, and sticking you own text below _with_no_blank_lines_in_between._ There should be no problem to have a blank line either. Beacuse the recipt paragraph always begins with . And all other paragraphs is reserved for future use. And I guess there would be no future version of QSBMF... But that would violate QSBMF: The body of the message has four pieces: an introductory paragraph, zero or more recipient paragraphs, a break paragraph, and the original message. Each paragraph is a series of non-blank lines followed by a single blank line. But then QSBMF violate itself, because the QSBMF format include the possibillity of other paragraphes in the futures. -Johan -- Johan Almqvist http://www.almqvist.net/johan/qmail/ Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature
Re: QSBMF
* Andreas Grip [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010724 14:55]: [...] But that would violate QSBMF: The body of the message has four pieces: an introductory paragraph, zero or more recipient paragraphs, a break paragraph, and the original message. Each paragraph is a series of non-blank lines followed by a single blank line. But then QSBMF violate itself, because the QSBMF format include the possibillity of other paragraphes in the futures. No! The recipient paragraphs could look as follows: --- snip --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sorry, I couldn't find any host by that name. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): This message was delivered without problems. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This message was delivered with lossy MIME conversion. --- snap --- To quote: The only type of recipient paragraph described here is a failure paragraph, which begins with the character . Paragraphs beginning with other characters are reserved for future extensions. Implicitly, this means that future extensions only are possible for recipient paragraphs. -Johan -- Johan Almqvist http://www.almqvist.net/johan/qmail/ PGP signature
Re: QSBMF
On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Andreas Grip wrote: A message starting with Hi looks like an mail written by a human person and can be confusing for them who just know a little english. A much better way to start this kind of message is This is a automatic generated failure message from qmail bla bla bla Automatic, generated, failure and message are more difficult words than Hi, This, is, and program, for the non-English speaker. However, perhaps you're right. In any case, I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses, is not as simple as, Problem: message NOT sent. -- Greg MathesonThink globally. Chinmin College, Act locally. Taiwan Think one thing, do another.
Re: QSBMF -
Pretty much the whole trick is to go into qmail-send.c, around line 708 (search for Hi), and just change the message that is output. As with any source change, you'll want to test it first, and make sure the message is reasonably formatted, has all important information, and the proper headers and envelope. I've read qsbmf.txt, but I am still confused a little about it. Is it some method of ensuring qmail always knows when a message has bounced? Or was it designed so that in the future, MUAs might know that a message has bounced and mark it (as Outlook+Exchange does)? I understand DJB's reasons for doing it his way (avoiding bandwidth-wasting deferral reports a la sendmail, for example, and outputting useful info to the user) - essentially what I want to know is, if changing as outlined above works OK, is this fundamentally problematic for qmail or is it just breaking DJB's spec? Regards, John
Re: QSBMF -
On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:41:29PM +0100, John P wrote: Pretty much the whole trick is to go into qmail-send.c, around line 708 (search for Hi), and just change the message that is output. As with any source change, you'll want to test it first, and make sure the message is reasonably formatted, has all important information, and the proper headers and envelope. I've read qsbmf.txt, but I am still confused a little about it. Is it some method of ensuring qmail always knows when a message has bounced? Or was it designed so that in the future, MUAs might know that a message has bounced and mark it (as Outlook+Exchange does)? QSMBF exist so that compliant applications (like ezmlm) can find out exactly what bounced and what didn't. I understand DJB's reasons for doing it his way (avoiding bandwidth-wasting deferral reports a la sendmail, for example, and outputting useful info to the user) - essentially what I want to know is, if changing as outlined above works OK, is this fundamentally problematic for qmail or is it just breaking DJB's spec? It is fundamentally problematic for ezmlm. Greetz, Peter -- Against Free Sex! http://www.dataloss.nl/Megahard_en.html
1) qmail-scanner -- 2) QSBMF format messages
hi ! 2 in 1 :) 1) qmail-scanner aboutQmail virus protection. Are you using the qmail-scanner tool ? :) witch antivirus works best with it ? i have about 6 msg/day local/remote traffic, will this patch affect on queue i/o performance ? 2) i want to translateto french the QSBMF error messages from mailer-daemon. do you know where those files are located ? or got to do it at compilation time ? thx a lot José.
Re: QSBMF -
Scott Gifford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [ a bunch of stuff about changing qmail's default bounce message] We made a change like this nearly a year ago, and have had zero issues. I got a question off-list about how to make this change, from a person whose email is at usa.net. Since usa.net has, from all accounts, a completely insane policy of blocking mail servers, I cannot respond directly, so I'll send the response here. It might be of general interest anyways. Pretty much the whole trick is to go into qmail-send.c, around line 708 (search for "Hi"), and just change the message that is output. As with any source change, you'll want to test it first, and make sure the message is reasonably formatted, has all important information, and the proper headers and envelope. -ScottG.
QSBMF -
Hi, I'm wondering what the consequences of breaking QSBMF are. My desire is to change the bounce messages to something more professional (we've had some complaints) and the req'd "Hi. This is the" would probably be the first thing to go. So, if I change it to something else, what will I break? Chris McDaniel Consulting Systems Analyst - Internet Hosting Services TELUS Integrated Communications
Re: QSBMF -
Chris McDaniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering what the consequences of breaking QSBMF are. My desire is to change the bounce messages to something more professional (we've had some complaints) Seriously? Sheesh. and the req'd "Hi. This is the" would probably be the first thing to go. So, if I change it to something else, what will I break? Well, anything that parses QSBMF. I'm not sure offhand what the consequences would be, though. Most bounce handlers are pretty flexible, by necessity. I'll have to check the code to be sure. -Dave
Re: QSBMF -
Dave Sill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Chris McDaniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering what the consequences of breaking QSBMF are. My desire is to change the bounce messages to something more professional (we've had some complaints) Seriously? Sheesh. We got similar complaints for our mail system. and the req'd "Hi. This is the" would probably be the first thing to go. So, if I change it to something else, what will I break? Well, anything that parses QSBMF. I'm not sure offhand what the consequences would be, though. Most bounce handlers are pretty flexible, by necessity. I'll have to check the code to be sure. We made a change like this nearly a year ago, and have had zero issues. --ScottG.
Re: QSBMF -
On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 05:01:02PM -0500, Scott Gifford wrote: Dave Sill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Chris McDaniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering what the consequences of breaking QSBMF are. My desire is to change the bounce messages to something more professional (we've had some complaints) Seriously? Sheesh. We got similar complaints for our mail system. Not complaints. But I've seen people reply in the mistaken belief that something that "chatty" must come from a real person. Quite amusing sometimes. Regards.
Re: QSBMF -
On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 04:30:13PM -0500, Dave Sill wrote: [snip] and the req'd "Hi. This is the" would probably be the first thing to go. So, if I change it to something else, what will I break? Well, anything that parses QSBMF. I'm not sure offhand what the consequences would be, though. Most bounce handlers are pretty flexible, by necessity. I'll have to check the code to be sure. I am not aware of any software parsing QSMBF. Are you? Greetz, Peter.
RE: QSBMF -
I'm not even sure what QSMBF is. -Original Message- From: Peter van Dijk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: QSBMF - On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 04:30:13PM -0500, Dave Sill wrote: [snip] and the req'd "Hi. This is the" would probably be the first thing to go. So, if I change it to something else, what will I break? Well, anything that parses QSBMF. I'm not sure offhand what the consequences would be, though. Most bounce handlers are pretty flexible, by necessity. I'll have to check the code to be sure. I am not aware of any software parsing QSMBF. Are you? Greetz, Peter.
Re: QSBMF -
On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 05:52:33PM -0700, Dan Egli wrote: I'm not even sure what QSMBF is. http://cr.yp.to/proto/qsbmf.txt (yes, some of us were misspelling it :) Greetz, Peter.
Re: QSBMF -
On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Michael T. Babcock wrote: It would be nice if someone convinced Microsoft et. al. (in the Windows E-mail client world) to support the reading and parsing of QSBMF in the same way Outlook already does this for Exchange server based E-mail. I don't think will happen any time soon. Microsoft knows that there is a lot of money in the server business. They know that many technically minded people do not like Microsoft. So, they go to some effort to make their client software make their own proprietary, expensive, low-performance servers look more attractive to the end user using Microsoft software than any non-Microsoft product that performs the same functions. They figure, if enough end-users demand Microsoft servers so "They can get more helpful bounce messages in Exchange" or what-not, that some shops will make the migration. Look at Front Page extensions. Not that this is any threat to Qmail. As long as end-users subscribe to mailing lists on Egroups [1], people can and will complain if a Microsoft client can't handle a Qmail server correctly. - Sam [1] I believe Egroups is one of the most visible Qmail installations out there.
