Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Hi John, Hang in there, buddy, and you'll get around to everybody and make that quota! I think we can handle both unadulterated self pity and words of wisdom, after all we've been through. With Love, CtrlAltDel aka Dave C4/5 Complete - 31 Years Post Texas, USA John S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Bill, Unfortunately, as best I can tell, you qualify to write on any topic on the list. Sometimes it isn't so important that we say things of profound truth. The importance lay in saying it. There will always be someone glad to bump heads over the wording or get whacked out of shape because your politics doesn't fit with their tax agenda, all can say is, don't let em bug you. Don't even reply. Jim has done an awesome job on the list but he can't make sure everyone on here is a quad or a para. I'm very serious when I tell you this is where you may find some great words of wisdom right next to some unadulterated self pity. You got to be tough just to lurk on this list. If I offended anyone, well, cest la vie. If I offended everyone,, then damn, I've really blown my quota! Blessings and peace to all, john P.S. I'm hoping y'all have guessed I don't know which Bill is which any longer. P.P.S. This is as good as I get at relating to others at the moment. My new bed from Medicaid broke my foot and after three days of would you like to see a different doctor?, now blood is pooling in my backoohh pity pity pity. - Original Message From: Dr. William E. Heft [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: QUAD LIST quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:07:27 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others Normal: a: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b: conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern: occurring naturally normal immunity4 a: of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development. Abnormal: deviating from the normal or average. I quote from one of my statements in my last post, Once again, I am only expressing my own thoughts and ideas on these matters. Please do not assume me to be dictatorial or presumptuous with my statements. Or perhaps I am mistaken. I was under the impression that a member of this list still retained the freedom of expression. I quote from another source. In a move entitled 'Uncommon Valor', a movie that is dear to my heart because I served with many of my beloved brothers in Vietnam. A statement from this movie was made by an actor named Sailor, who said, Man,you don't ever quit. Yes, yes, I've heard it all before, on how men like me are politically incorrect for being involved in that crazy Asian war. I personally don't care, even though the cause of my t-1 2 condition is from Agent Orange. All I'm describing is what is best for me. I haven't and I never will quit trying. If I drop something, and it takes me a half an hour to pick it up, who's going to complain, or will the politically incorrect police come and arrest me? You say that it's important to conserve your strength for the important things, well struggling to exist everyday is my form of freedom, and that to me is the most important thing in life. Perhaps the prejudice on this list run the other way, and apparently I don't qualify as being a legitimate quadriplegic, at least not on this list. I made a mistake by joining, but that's ok, I make many mistakes. I'm sure there may exist other lists such as this one, or maybe there isn't. Either way it doesn't make any difference. Bill of Ill. - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Dear Bill, Unfortunately, as best I can tell, you qualify to write on any topic on the list. Sometimes it isn't so important that we say things of profound truth. The importance lay in saying it. There will always be someone glad to bump heads over the wording or get whacked out of shape because your politics doesn't fit with their tax agenda, all can say is, don't let em bug you. Don't even reply. Jim has done an awesome job on the list but he can't make sure everyone on here is a quad or a para. I'm very serious when I tell you this is where you may find some great words of wisdom right next to some unadulterated self pity. You got to be tough just to lurk on this list. If I offended anyone, well, cest la vie. If I offended everyone,, then damn, I've really blown my quota! Blessings and peace to all, john P.S. I'm hoping y'all have guessed I don't know which Bill is which any longer. P.P.S. This is as good as I get at relating to others at the moment. My new bed from Medicaid broke my foot and after three days of would you like to see a different doctor?, now blood is pooling in my backoohh pity pity pity. - Original Message From: Dr. William E. Heft [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: QUAD LIST quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:07:27 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others Normal: a: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b: conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern: occurring naturally normal immunity4 a: of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development. Abnormal: deviating from the normal or average. I quote from one of my statements in my last post, Once again, I am only expressing my own thoughts and ideas on these matters. Please do not assume me to be dictatorial or presumptuous with my statements. Or perhaps I am mistaken. I was under the impression that a member of this list still retained the freedom of expression. I quote from another source. In a move entitled 'Uncommon Valor', a movie that is dear to my heart because I served with many of my beloved brothers in Vietnam. A statement from this movie was made by an actor named Sailor, who said, Man,you don't ever quit. Yes, yes, I've heard it all before, on how men like me are politically incorrect for being involved in that crazy Asian war. I personally don't care, even though the cause of my t-1 2 condition is from Agent Orange. All I'm describing is what is best for me. I haven't and I never will quit trying. If I drop something, and it takes me a half an hour to pick it up, who's going to complain, or will the politically incorrect police come and arrest me? You say that it's important to conserve your strength for the important things, well struggling to exist everyday is my form of freedom, and that to me is the most important thing in life. Perhaps the prejudice on this list run the other way, and apparently I don't qualify as being a legitimate quadriplegic, at least not on this list. I made a mistake by joining, but that's ok, I make many mistakes. I'm sure there may exist other lists such as this one, or maybe there isn't. Either way it doesn't make any difference. Bill of Ill. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Bill of Ill, I have the sig line that expresses what you wrote below. It's this: Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in an attractive, well preserved body–but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO what a ride! Bill C6 Incomplete since 7/20/68 Age 57 Leesburg, FL Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. - Original Message - From: Dr. William E. Heft To: QUAD LIST Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others Hi Billy. Bill of Il.here. I share your sentiments and emotions. I too, lived my life as you do, dead from the neck on down, but my brain never quit working. Unfortunately, as you say, some insinuate that we must be as equality retarded as we are handicapped. I understand that blind people often experience something similar to this same event. Seems that when individuals learned the person was blind, they immediately began talking much louder and had to be told, Hey, this person is blind, not deaf. Example. At one point, when I was 60 years old, I was told that I had only 24 hours to live, and that there was no hope for me because the tumor had crushed my spinal cord to the thickness of a ribbon. Those were the words of my neurosurgeon, a great and wonderful doctor. After surviving the removal of the tumor, I was told that I was lucky to be alive, but that I would live as a vegetable for the remaining time that I remained alive. I spent months lying in bed, not being able to turn over or to even feed myself. I remember lying in bed, doing the only thing I could do on my own, and that was to watch life go by. When I tired of that, I would yell and someone would turn me away from the window. The longer I lay there, the more determined I became to make an effort to change my situation, if only in the slightest way. So slowly I began to fight back against this thing that tries to destroy us. I remember the first time I tried to sit up. Someone had to hold me in a sitting position or else I would fall off the bed. It took several months, but I finally reached the point where I was able to sit up unaided. What a great feeling it was to experience that feeling of freedom. We have all been robbed of our lives and dreams and aspirations by an enemy we never knew. We didn't ask for this life, so why should I give this enemy every last once of victory. Every time I learn to do something that was taken from me, I win back an once of freedom. I take back what has been taken from me. Like Billy stated, I am not brain dead, and I have an awful lot of time to think as long as I am sitting there, so I began to outsmart the enemy and figure out ways to succeed in the simple tasks. One day after a lot of work I actually buttoned one button on my shirt. Yes, in a matter of seconds my PC person could have done it, but that person (as wonderful as they are) will never experience the sweet feeling of that success. I never, never belittled anyone for trying to help us. These were embellishment written by someone else writing on the list. The analogy was given about an elderly lady crossing a street. Should we sit idly by and watch her struggle, or should we run up to her and announce that we are going to help her cross the street. We do neither. We first approach and ask her or him if they would like any help. This satisfy's the human urge to help those in need, but remember, we can only respond to the elderly lady's response. If she says why yes, thank you, we then her. but if she says, no thank you, I want to attempt this crossing on my own, we can only capitulate and watch her cross the street. No one is demeaning those who are care givers, but if any of you were to come up to me and ask me if you could do assist me with somethingBill o I was trying to do, I would simply tell you not at the moment, thank you, I want to fail first. Today, as I write, after 6 years of trying, I can walk a little bit on my own, even though I was told that I would never be able to walk unassisted. I am not through declaring war on the enemy, and will continue to do so until the last hour before I die, which time is always near. When I do check out, I plan to do so with a smile on my face, because I gave that enemy(whoever that might be) the best fight I was able to bring to the battlefield, given the condition I am in. Bill of Il.
RE: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
i couldn't agree more. in fact, i find your words to be rather intellectually endowed. please stay with us. Lucinda C-4,5 complete July 31, '05 Mpls., MN - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Well said, well put Bill... the wonder of it all is that the fight is won everyday we breath, wake up, and accomplish little tasks as little as they might be... the battle will be over when we die. And for us who believe in God, rest assure the battle has been won already. Hec
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
I'll be honest with you Bill, I have had difficulty trying to keep up with who's who on this particular post. Hopefully I am not way off base, but are you the Bill who is having difficulty with dental care? Also, did you serve during Vietnam war in Vietnam? If not, disregard. After reading this through pretty quickly, I agree with you. It is important that we don't belittle those trying to help us, much less anyone else. To me it sounds as if you had the answers to the questions you posed already. I'm glad you didn't leave the list and I hope you don't. Your input is valued, even if people don't agree with you all the time. Take care, Quadius
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Hi Billy. Bill of Il.here. I share your sentiments and emotions. I too, lived my life as you do, dead from the neck on down, but my brain never quit working. Unfortunately, as you say, some insinuate that we must be as equality retarded as we are handicapped. I understand that blind people often experience something similar to this same event. Seems that when individuals learned the person was blind, they immediately began talking much louder and had to be told, Hey, this person is blind, not deaf. Example. At one point, when I was 60 years old, I was told that I had only 24 hours to live, and that there was no hope for me because the tumor had crushed my spinal cord to the thickness of a ribbon. Those were the words of my neurosurgeon, a great and wonderful doctor. After surviving the removal of the tumor, I was told that I was lucky to be alive, but that I would live as a vegetable for the remaining time that I remained alive. I spent months lying in bed, not being able to turn over or to even feed myself. I remember lying in bed, doing the only thing I could do on my own, and that was to watch life go by. When I tired of that, I would yell and someone would turn me away from the window. The longer I lay there, the more determined I became to make an effort to change my situation, if only in the slightest way. So slowly I began to fight back against this thing that tries to destroy us. I remember the first time I tried to sit up. Someone had to hold me in a sitting position or else I would fall off the bed. It took several months, but I finally reached the point where I was able to sit up unaided. What a great feeling it was to experience that feeling of freedom. We have all been robbed of our lives and dreams and aspirations by an enemy we never knew. We didn't ask for this life, so why should I give this enemy every last once of victory. Every time I learn to do something that was taken from me, I win back an once of freedom. I take back what has been taken from me. Like Billy stated, I am not brain dead, and I have an awful lot of time to think as long as I am sitting there, so I began to outsmart the enemy and figure out ways to succeed in the simple tasks. One day after a lot of work I actually buttoned one button on my shirt. Yes, in a matter of seconds my PC person could have done it, but that person (as wonderful as they are) will never experience the sweet feeling of that success. I never, never belittled anyone for trying to help us. These were embellishment written by someone else writing on the list. The analogy was given about an elderly lady crossing a street. Should we sit idly by and watch her struggle, or should we run up to her and announce that we are going to help her cross the street. We do neither. We first approach and ask her or him if they would like any help. This satisfy's the human urge to help those in need, but remember, we can only respond to the elderly lady's response. If she says why yes, thank you, we then her. but if she says, no thank you, I want to attempt this crossing on my own, we can only capitulate and watch her cross the street. No one is demeaning those who are care givers, but if any of you were to come up to me and ask me if you could do assist me with somethingBill o I was trying to do, I would simply tell you not at the moment, thank you, I want to fail first. Today, as I write, after 6 years of trying, I can walk a little bit on my own, even though I was told that I would never be able to walk unassisted. I am not through declaring war on the enemy, and will continue to do so until the last hour before I die, which time is always near. When I do check out, I plan to do so with a smile on my face, because I gave that enemy(whoever that might be) the best fight I was able to bring to the battlefield, given the condition I am in. Bill of Il.
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Jeeze Bill, take a chill pill. Nobody's attacking you or the way you deal with your disability. You expressed your opinion can't we express ours? When we are alone and we drop something or have to turn on a light, etc. We have to, or try to figure out a way to do it ourselves. And yes, when or if we accomplish the task, we are - or at least I am - very pleased with my self. But this is when no one is around. Don't be afraid or ashamed to ask for help brother - there is no shame in it and it makes the helper feel good about themselves. My best friend who was a quad was making a visit to our local hospital. While exiting his van, he slipped off the van ramp and landed on his side in a puddle - still in his wheelchair. His PCA was holding his head out of the water so he wouldn't drown. Ten cars drove AROUND him but nobody stopped to ask if they could help! Finally, a little old lady stopped her car and asked if they needed help. Anyway, don't leave this list just because someone disagrees with you. That's what lists do. It's how we learn. Everyone here has their own opinion on bowel and bladder care, pain management, wheelchair types, etc. We may not agree with you but we respect you and they way YOU want to live your quadom. Dan At 10:07 PM 1/16/2008 -0600, Dr. William E. Heft said something that elicited my response: Normal: a: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b: conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern: occurring naturally normal immunity4 a: of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development. Abnormal: deviating from the normal or average. I quote from one of my statements in my last post, Once again, I am only expressing my own thoughts and ideas on these matters. Please do not assume me to be dictatorial or presumptuous with my statements. Or perhaps I am mistaken. I was under the impression that a member of this list still retained the freedom of expression. I quote from another source. In a move entitled 'Uncommon Valor', a movie that is dear to my heart because I served with many of my beloved brothers in Vietnam. A statement from this movie was made by an actor named Sailor, who said, Man,you don't ever quit. Yes, yes, I've heard it all before, on how men like me are politically incorrect for being involved in that crazy Asian war. I personally don't care, even though the cause of my t-1 2 condition is from Agent Orange. All I'm describing is what is best for me. I haven't and I never will quit trying. If I drop something, and it takes me a half an hour to pick it up, who's going to complain, or will the politically incorrect police come and arrest me? You say that it's important to conserve your strength for the important things, well struggling to exist everyday is my form of freedom, and that to me is the most important thing in life. Perhaps the prejudice on this list run the other way, and apparently I don't qualify as being a legitimate quadriplegic, at least not on this list. I made a mistake by joining, but that's ok, I make many mistakes. I'm sure there may exist other lists such as this one, or maybe there isn't. Either way it doesn't make any difference. Bill of Ill.
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Bill from Ill: Please stay. We all have our differences. I don't care if you're a para or quad, got injured going 300 mph on a skateboard or tripped over a gnat. We're all here to share info, give support and help each other. Bill C6 Incomplete since 7/20/68 Age 57 Leesburg, FL Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. - Original Message - From: Dr. William E. Heft To: QUAD LIST Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:07 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others Normal: a: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b: conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern: occurring naturally normal immunity4 a: of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development. Abnormal: deviating from the normal or average. I quote from one of my statements in my last post, Once again, I am only expressing my own thoughts and ideas on these matters. Please do not assume me to be dictatorial or presumptuous with my statements. Or perhaps I am mistaken. I was under the impression that a member of this list still retained the freedom of expression. I quote from another source. In a move entitled 'Uncommon Valor', a movie that is dear to my heart because I served with many of my beloved brothers in Vietnam. A statement from this movie was made by an actor named Sailor, who said, Man,you don't ever quit. Yes, yes, I've heard it all before, on how men like me are politically incorrect for being involved in that crazy Asian war. I personally don't care, even though the cause of my t-1 2 condition is from Agent Orange. All I'm describing is what is best for me. I haven't and I never will quit trying. If I drop something, and it takes me a half an hour to pick it up, who's going to complain, or will the politically incorrect police come and arrest me? You say that it's important to conserve your strength for the important things, well struggling to exist everyday is my form of freedom, and that to me is the most important thing in life. Perhaps the prejudice on this list run the other way, and apparently I don't qualify as being a legitimate quadriplegic, at least not on this list. I made a mistake by joining, but that's ok, I make many mistakes. I'm sure there may exist other lists such as this one, or maybe there isn't. Either way it doesn't make any difference. Bill of Ill.
RE: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Bill, Ive read your post over and over, I must be a dum country boy because I sure don't read anything that should piss anybody off. And if it did, who gives a big shit? Hell what will it matter in a hundred years anyway. Professor Turd hopper Silas From: Dr. William E. Heft [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:07 PM To: QUAD LIST Subject: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others Normal: a: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b: conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern: occurring naturally normal immunity4 a: of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development. Abnormal: deviating from the normal or average. I quote from one of my statements in my last post, Once again, I am only expressing my own thoughts and ideas on these matters. Please do not assume me to be dictatorial or presumptuous with my statements. Or perhaps I am mistaken. I was under the impression that a member of this list still retained the freedom of expression. I quote from another source. In a move entitled 'Uncommon Valor', a movie that is dear to my heart because I served with many of my beloved brothers in Vietnam. A statement from this movie was made by an actor named Sailor, who said, Man,you don't ever quit. Yes, yes, I've heard it all before, on how men like me are politically incorrect for being involved in that crazy Asian war. I personally don't care, even though the cause of my t-1 2 condition is from Agent Orange. All I'm describing is what is best for me. I haven't and I never will quit trying. If I drop something, and it takes me a half an hour to pick it up, who's going to complain, or will the politically incorrect police come and arrest me? You say that it's important to conserve your strength for the important things, well struggling to exist everyday is my form of freedom, and that to me is the most important thing in life. Perhaps the prejudice on this list run the other way, and apparently I don't qualify as being a legitimate quadriplegic, at least not on this list. I made a mistake by joining, but that's ok, I make many mistakes. I'm sure there may exist other lists such as this one, or maybe there isn't. Either way it doesn't make any difference. Bill of Ill.
Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Remember that the normal become the AB Normal, when its outside the Quadrum Best Wishes W In a message dated 1/17/2008 3:21:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill, Ive read your post over and over, I must be a dum country boy because I sure don’t read anything that should piss anybody off. And if it did, who gives a big shit? Hell what will it matter in a hundred years anyway. Professor Turd hopper Silas **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
[QUAD-L] Re: Our Relationship With Others
Normal: a: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b: conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern: occurring naturally normal immunity4 a: of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development. Abnormal: deviating from the normal or average. I quote from one of my statements in my last post, Once again, I am only expressing my own thoughts and ideas on these matters. Please do not assume me to be dictatorial or presumptuous with my statements. Or perhaps I am mistaken. I was under the impression that a member of this list still retained the freedom of expression. I quote from another source. In a move entitled 'Uncommon Valor', a movie that is dear to my heart because I served with many of my beloved brothers in Vietnam. A statement from this movie was made by an actor named Sailor, who said, Man,you don't ever quit. Yes, yes, I've heard it all before, on how men like me are politically incorrect for being involved in that crazy Asian war. I personally don't care, even though the cause of my t-1 2 condition is from Agent Orange. All I'm describing is what is best for me. I haven't and I never will quit trying. If I drop something, and it takes me a half an hour to pick it up, who's going to complain, or will the politically incorrect police come and arrest me? You say that it's important to conserve your strength for the important things, well struggling to exist everyday is my form of freedom, and that to me is the most important thing in life. Perhaps the prejudice on this list run the other way, and apparently I don't qualify as being a legitimate quadriplegic, at least not on this list. I made a mistake by joining, but that's ok, I make many mistakes. I'm sure there may exist other lists such as this one, or maybe there isn't. Either way it doesn't make any difference. Bill of Ill.
