[qubes-users] transparent encripting proxy w/ Qubes?

[Oleg Artemiev]

I've found recently discussion on a forum on trusts for javascript
code that is loaded from network and pretends to realize easy to use
encryption of mail.

Agreed that here you have to trust vendor of the code ultimately.

Question I keep since I'm using Qubes - is it possible anyway to have
no need in trust to vendor?

Intro, required to understand context:

Those old times when irc was the primary channel in our communication
within a team of a few geeks interested also in security one of us
made an encrypting proxy with dynamic key exchange.

>From outside this looks like this:
 1) there is an irc channel - a known place to meet and talk w/o encryption
 2) once two people need to use secure communication they agree on
this (usually opening then a  private 2 person chat separate window).
Each of two clicks a button . The software uses
an encrypting proxy model and takes dynamic key create/exchange +
encryption/decryption phase by encrypting/decrypting talk on the fly.

 The conversation if used on the public channel looks like a dump of
ascii armored encrypted file - just a flow of strings that a 3d party
cannot easily decrypt.

So it was a proxy for encryption and dynamic key exchange.

The basic idea is that only proxy has a clue about encryption and key
exchange.The client uses simple text protocol and all encryption is
seamless - you don't have to change the software itself.

Well, what if we try similar idea when organising secure
communications using 2 computers and diffrent VMS with two Qubes PCs?

The requirement is to have at least one VM in Qubes installed as
usually that never operates w/ unencrypted data after entering
"transparent encryption of data". Is it possible at all?

The main problem is that when we want to make seamless encryption via
proxy the protocol has to be easy separated to data and control
sequences.

I.e. we can connect as keyboard "a  resulting flow of encryption made
in other VM", but the software running inside such a VM will interpret
some of that input as a control sequence and, for example, react to
data like on a special key press. If I get as a proxy into another VM
- I've to read and answer on that VM also.

Any comments?


-- 
Bye.Olli.
gpg --search-keys grey_olli , use key w/ fingerprint below:
Key fingerprint = 9901 6808 768C 8B89 544C  9BE0 49F9 5A46 2B98 147E
Blog keys (the blog is mostly in Russian): http://grey-olli.livejournal.com/tag/

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[qubes-users] Re: Workaround for building Ubuntu xenial+desktop with qubes-builder

[anoa]

On 02/03/2017 08:41 AM, Unman wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 06:21:15AM +, Nick Darren wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 02/02/2017 12:07 AM, Unman wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 11:00:41AM -0800, Andrew M wrote:
 Thanks Unman,

 This bug is currently affecting my work so it would be greatly
 appreciated if it were resolved :)


 On 01/29/2017 06:38 PM, Unman wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:31:38PM +, Nick Darren wrote:
>> /Hi all,/
>>
>>
>> On 01/24/2017 06:59 AM, anoa wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Today I was trying to build the Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial+Desktop template
>>> using qubes-builder with help from these instructions:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-builder
>>>
>>> Everything was alright until the `make qubes-vm` step where it would
>>> fail on the following:
>>>
 dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (quilt)': no 
 upstream tarball found at ../xen_4.6.3.orig.tar.{bz2,gz,lzma,xz}
 dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-source -b debian-vm gave error exit 
 status 255
 /home/user/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-debian/Makefile.qubuntu:196:
  recipe for target 'dist-package' failed
>>> The build was looking for xen_4.6.3 when in fact xen_4.6.4 is in the
>>> folder. As a workaround, simply copying the xen_4.6.4 to be named
>>> xen.4.6.3 allowed the build to continue and eventually complete
>>> successfully:
>>>
 cd /path/to/qubes-builder/chroot-xenial/home/user/qubes-src/vmm-xen; 
 sudo cp -pr ./xen_4.6.4.orig.tar.gz ./xen_4.6.3.orig.tar.gz
>> /It doesn't work by just rename the 'xen_4.6.4.orig.tar.gz' on
>> chroot-xenial. On my case (on testing to build xenial-desktop) needs to
>> copy the file to /path/to/qubes-builder/qubes-src/vmm-xen/. there. Then,
>> it will skip the error message and allowed the build successfully./
>>
>>> Hope this helps someone while the script is being updated.
>>>
>> /I have another weird situation. The build was succeed but the problem
>> is, terminal and some others application cannot be launched due to an
>> error, normally on ubuntu's standard installation caused by locales
>> issue. Tried to fix it the way it used to be on normal ubuntu
>> installation or archlinux. But the problem still persists after
>> rebooting the template-vm or any appvms that's based on it./
>>
>> user@ubuntu-xenial:~$ Error constructing proxy for
>> org.gnome.Terminal:/org/gnome/Terminal/Factory0: Error calling
>> StartServiceByName for org.gnome.Terminal:
>> GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ChildSignaled: Process
>> org.gnome.Terminal received signal 5
>>
>> /Test on executing gedit from xterm/UXterm/urvtx:/
>>
>> user@ubuntu-xenial:~$ gedit
>> Gedit failure to execute.
>> (gedit:5697): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: No GSettings schemas are installed on
>> the system
>> Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped)
>>
>>
>> /The same error happen when I execute the 'xfce4-terminal' or
>> 'terminator'. Still the same 'Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped)'
>> issues here and there./
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> /Locale was set in order to avoid gnome-terminal error, but it' useless
>> on this case and still failed to work./
>>
>> user@ubuntu-xenial:~$ localectl
>>System Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8
>>VC Keymap: us
>>   X11 Layout: us
>>X11 Model: pc105+inet
>>  X11 Options: terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>>
>> 
>>
>> /On checking qubes local packages installed on the 'xenial-desktop' 
>> system.
>> /
>> libqubes-rpc-filecopy2/now 3.2.3+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   Qubes file copy protocol library
>>
>> libqubesdb/now 3.2.3-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   QubesDB libs.
>>
>> libvchan-xen/now 3.2.0-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   Qubes Xen core libraries
>>
>> libxen-4.6/now 2001:4.6.3-25+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   Libraries for Xen tools
>>
>> qubes-core-agent/now 3.2.15-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   Qubes core agent
>>
>> qubes-gui-agent/now 3.2.13-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   Makes X11 windows available to qubes dom0
>>
>> qubes-utils/now 3.2.3+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   Qubes Linux utilities
>>
>> qubesdb/now 3.2.3-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   QubesDB management tools and daemon.
>>
>> qubesdb-vm/now 3.2.3-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   QubesDB VM service.
>>
>> xserver-xorg-input-qubes/now 3.2.13-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   X input driver for injecting events from qubes-gui-agent
>>
>> xserver-xorg-video-dummyqbs/now 3.2.13-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>>   Dummy X 

Re: [qubes-users] HCL Suggestions?

[Andrew David Wong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2017-02-03 15:37, Gaiko Kyofusho wrote:
> First, these are just a few suggestions, I really appreciate the
> HCL as it helped me select a very functional computer that worked
> with Qubes "out of the box".
> 
> Despite the HCL being helpful I wonder if it possible to add some 
> additional functionality to it? "That One Privacy Site" has a very 
> useful table that can be sorted in a variety of ways, something
> like this for the HCL would really be useful. Also It seems people
> have asked fairly often about ideal notebooks and asked about
> memory, weight, age (year released?) etc Adding a field for these
> things (mem tested with, and max mem) could be quite useful for
> those wanting for find say the lightest notebook that is working
> with 3.2 (for example).
> 

Indeed, these would be useful. Unfortunately, though, we can't even
keep the existing HCL up to date (see below), so any new features
would have to come from the community. Would you be willing to submit
patches for these?

> These are just thoughts, but as I am hoping to get another computer
> in the next year or so I tend to refer to the HCL to see if its
> been updated and compare computers etc.
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 

This is a good time to mention that we're in need of an HCL
maintainer. Our longtime volunteer HCL maintainer, Zrubi, no longer
has the time to do it. We all owe Zrubi a debt of gratitude for
keeping up this thankless task for so long! :)

Any volunteers?

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Re: [qubes-users] Problems updating Fedora templates

[Andrew David Wong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2017-02-03 17:27, adonis28...@gmail.com wrote:
> HI Andrew,
> 
> Thank for the reply.
> 
> The issues has been present for a few days now, I've tried everyday since 
> then without any luck
> 

Take a look at these links. Some of these troubleshooting tips might help in 
your case.

https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/88086/error-failed-to-synchronize-cache-for-repo-fedora/
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/92573/failed-to-synchronize-cache-for-repo/
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/85642/cant-run-yum-or-dnf-failed-to-synchronize-cache-for-repo/
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/286707/failed-to-syncronize-cache-for-repo-fedora-possible-proxy-issues
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1219283
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205341

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Re: [qubes-users] Problems updating Fedora templates

[adonis28850]

HI Andrew,

Thank for the reply.

The issues has been present for a few days now, I've tried everyday since then 
without any luck

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[qubes-users] qubes as base for small team work?

[Oleg Artemiev]

I've a stalled business project that has been reincarnated to planning
state last month.

Previously we planned to use qubes as a base OS for our final product.
Though, after a 1.5 year of a project suspend, old target was
re-planned as a few-years-later as business ideas were
changed/reordered.

We're facing the question - is Qubes is ready enough for base of our
workflow inside our project in two roles 1) as a w/s 2) as a hosred
solution .

Release 3.0 is stable enough for role 1 (at least for me).

 - Has current release lost any entry in hardware compatibility list -
i.e. if Qubes OS has been working OK on my current PC - it shouldn't
make any problem to upgrade?
 - Is current version is stable enough from your user expirience?

Questions for role 2:

 - has anyone useed Qubes as an OS for hosted server for small project?
 - is remote management is ready or in progess or in long/short term
todo currently?
 - Do we need a comercial license for such activities?

-- 
Bye.Olli.
gpg --search-keys grey_olli , use key w/ fingerprint below:
Key fingerprint = 9901 6808 768C 8B89 544C  9BE0 49F9 5A46 2B98 147E
Blog keys (the blog is mostly in Russian): http://grey-olli.livejournal.com/tag/

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[qubes-users] Problems updating Fedora templates

[adonis28850]

Hi guys,

Been using Qubes OS for a few months almost smoothly, but a few days ago, when 
I went to update a couple of Fedora based templates I have, I got the following 
error:

Error: failed to synchronize cache for repor 'xxx'

These templates were working and updating just fine before, and I haven't 
touched anything!

Anyone experienced something similar?

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Re: [qubes-users] Advantage of connecting through a mobile router in public?

[Franz]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:07 AM, Tim W  wrote:

> On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 6:51:19 PM UTC-5, Chris Laprise wrote:
> > On 02/01/2017 02:59 PM, Franz wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Chris Laprise  > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > On 02/01/2017 01:16 AM, Franz wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 2:13 AM, Chris Laprise
> > > 
> > >  > > >> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 01/31/2017 10:47 PM, Gaiko Kyofusho wrote:
> > >
> > > I keep reading examples where people are using
> > > something like
> > > mobile routers between thier phone/computer and public
> > > wifi
> > > spots, example like the blackholecloud
> > > device or apparently Mike
> > > Perry
> > > of the tor project told arstechnica
> > >
> > >  prototype-google-hostility-android-open-source/
> > >  prototype-google-hostility-android-open-source/>
> > >
> > >  prototype-google-hostility-android-open-source/
> > >  prototype-google-hostility-android-open-source/>>>that
> > > "He suggests leaving the prototype in airplane mode and
> > > connecting to the Internet through a second,
> less-trusted
> > > phone, or a cheap Wi-Fi cell router."
> > >
> > >
> > > This is pretty dubious advice. What is to stop an attacker
> > > from
> > > breaking into the mobile router and using that as an attack
> > > platform to break into your main device? A few minutes...?
> > >
> > >
> > > But doesn't a firewall add some additional security? Otherwise
> > > which is the purpose of having a firewall?
> > >
> > >
> > > A layer 3 service cannot protect you against a layer 2 attack.
> > >
> > > Now, if we're going to pretend that NIC-DMA attacks are not a part
> > > of the threat model, then we can just run a regular OS instead of
> > > Qubes.
> > >
> > > Router firewalls were a "good" option in 2002, and the word
> > > "firewall" itself is powerful and insists we place trust in it.
> > > But it was folly to place trust in network infrastructure in the
> > > first place and now router-firewalls are popular targets. They
> > > contain NICs with imperfect and obscure hardware and firmware.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Chris. Would you think the same of openwrt firmware?  Qubes
> > > firewall architecture is obviously the way to go. But phones, netbooks
> > > etc cannot afford Qubes. While they would deserve some sort of perhaps
> > > minor protection.
> > > Best
> > > Fran
> >
> > I have installed Openwrt myself. It doesn't have better architecture,
> > but its open and security updates are more readily available. Beyond
> > that, I haven't thought about better routers in years because I've seen
> > no sign of a breakthrough in architecture, and I've also become more
> > mindful of the maxim that net infrastructure shouldn't be trusted.
> > Endpoint security is the one truly good type of security practice, and
> > Qubes is like the "fine point" on the endpoint. :)
> >
> > Papers are starting to circulate that call-for or describe better
> > security architecture for IoT, including Qubes' approach of isolating
> > NICs and such. To me, IoT is very similar to (if not the same as) net
> > infrastructure, but in smaller packages. The attention gives me reason
> > to hope that even tablets and phones will significantly improve.
> >
> > But for now, we should remind ourselves that smartphones have one main
> > design goal over other devices: Ultra-convenience. We shouldn't
> > automatically assume they are appropriate for whatever use case, and
> > I find it a little disturbing that the Tor Project's interest in hardware
> > has gone in this direction. But the odd thing about such projects they
> > have a history of catering to mostly Windows users and absorb some of
> > the blindness that platform engenders.
> >
> > Chris
>
> Quote from Chris:
> "I find it a little disturbing that the Tor Project's interest in hardware
> > has gone in this direction. But the odd thing about such projects they
> > have a history of catering to mostly Windows users and absorb some of
> > the blindness that platform engenders."
>
> You might want to consider where the majority of the funding for many of
> the most popular privacy and anonymity software comes fromUS Gov.
> This includes Tor.  The same gov that 

[qubes-users] HCL Suggestions?

[Gaiko Kyofusho]

First, these are just a few suggestions, I really appreciate the HCL as it
helped me select a very functional computer that worked with Qubes "out of
the box".

Despite the HCL being helpful I wonder if it possible to add some
additional functionality to it? "That One Privacy Site" has a very useful
table that can be sorted in a variety of ways, something like this for the
HCL would really be useful. Also It seems people have asked fairly often
about ideal notebooks and asked about memory, weight, age (year released?)
etc Adding a field for these things (mem tested with, and max mem) could be
quite useful for those wanting for find say the lightest notebook that is
working with 3.2 (for example).

These are just thoughts, but as I am hoping to get another computer in the
next year or so I tend to refer to the HCL to see if its been updated and
compare computers etc.

Just my two cents.

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Re: [qubes-users] Monitor won't wake up after temporary hdmi switchover

[Chris Laprise]

On 02/03/2017 12:57 PM, Patrick Bouldin wrote:


Just would like to add to my last post that I found some code related to the 
bugzilla, here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=6590

So would I somehow install that and how? Or, download a tar file and install 
(and how?)

Thanks,
Patrick


It may be best to ask the Xfce forum how to apply their patch and 
re-compile for Fedora 23 (it will be a fairly complicated process).


Alternative is to switch to one of the desktops that handles displays 
better. I've had good results with KDE.


Chris

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Re: [qubes-users] Archlinux Community Template Qubes OS 3.2

[Franz]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Tim W  wrote:

> On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 3:00:40 PM UTC-5, hed...@tutanota.com
> wrote:
> > @Olivier Medoc
> >
> >
> > First off, thank you for all the work you've clearly put into the Arch
> Linux build and documentation for Qubes.
> >
> >
> > FYI, I'd just like to add my own experiences when I tried to use the new
> template. (Since I was using the ready-built template, I skipped your build
> instructions and started at section "Package Manager Proxy Setup Section".):
> >
> >
> > 1. After the initial download, the template VM wouldn't close down and
> was eventually killed by the qubes-dom0-update script. That behaviour was
> repeated after I started and tried to shutdown the template VM myself.
> > 2. Just like Francesco, I had difficulty reading the command lines,
> because it is virtually impossible to distinguish a single- from a
> double-dash and copy/paste wasn't working. I tried in both Firefox and
> Chromium so it wasn't browser related. A fixed-pitch font should do the
> trick.
> > 3. Since gnome-terminal wouldn't open, it would have been useful if you
> had specifically named the "archlinux terminal app" for those of us not
> versed in Arch Linux. I used xterm as a fallback, which worked, but later
> found out that there is an xfce4-terminal that is very like gnome-terminal.
> > 4. Step 3 Install Pacman failed with an error about a database file not
> existing. Some research led me to try "pacman -Syy" (I think without
> "sudo") which did the trick.
> > 5. Step 7 Configure Powerpill...  the description (though not the
> example) omits the need for a comma on the preceding line.
> >
> >
> > Otherwise, it's now all up and running. Now all I have to do is get my
> head around Arch!
> >
> >
> > Mike
>
> Mike,
>
> The errors in syntax in the instructions are my fault.  I helped update
> the entire instruction guide and obviously there are some typos.   While I
> did post it all up for review those must have slipped thru.  It was alot of
> new instructions and images.  I was trying to make it so people could c
> the various cmds to try and make it that much easier.   The issue being
> that some of them did not obviously transfer correctly and or I typo'd.
> Not sure how it happened as I took the images and c the cmds as part of a
> full template build which was successful but somehow it seems it did happen.
>
> The reason powerpill was not given specific configs was at the time a
> number of people had posted that pacman should have had a option to config
> the proxy ip which ended up not being the case at least not from anything I
> could find.  I left it up to the end user then to decide as it was not a
> direct part of building the actual archlinux template.
>
> I am happy to add the powerpill config instructions but if you do a basic
> search on its use of aria2 that it uses its straight forward.  Its a basic
> config file with single line item config with very basic syntax.  It would
> have to be for me to get it to work LOL.
>
> The instruction page is 100% editable for change submissions so any errors
> you see you can submit the changes to fix it.  If you prefer list them here
> giving me the step number and the error and I can go back and fix it.
>
>
Tim
from your lat two emails it seems the problem was solved. But I am confused
how it was solved. You posted a link to this thread
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/qubes-users/tim$20w$20pacman/qubes-users/vT_ETcU5BvQ/sDhu879WDQAJ
but it seems too old. May you clarify a little bit please?
Best
Fran


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[qubes-users] 'Build' file/directory in modules doesn't exist

[james772]

Hi
My debian template hasn't 'build' file of 4.4.38-11 module, when I
have to install some drivers with make and make install happen that
the file/directory doesn't exist. Is there a way to correct it? I
found this on github but I don't know how to install

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-linux-kernel/tree/stable-4.4
Thank you

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Re: [qubes-users] Monitor won't wake up after temporary hdmi switchover

[Patrick Bouldin]

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 12:44:12 PM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 12:28:36 AM UTC-5, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
> > 
> > On 2017-02-02 07:57, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
> > > Hello again, this problem is really causing issues. I have multiple
> > > hdmi connections on my monitor. Whenever I switch over, away from
> > > the Qubes machine, and then back again, the Qubes machine loses its
> > > hdmi connection. I can tell the machine is still running, and ok,
> > > but I can't see anything!
> > > 
> > > PS - on boot, I'm still always getting this error: [FAILED] Failed
> > > to start Load Kernel Modules.
> > > 
> > > Could this be related? It seems to operate fine, except for the
> > > hdmi monitor.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Thank you, Patrick
> > > 
> > 
> > Maybe this is the same issue?
> > 
> > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2387
> > 
> > - -- 
> > Andrew David Wong (Axon)
> > Community Manager, Qubes OS
> > https://www.qubes-os.org
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> Hi, it does look like it. I searched around a lot and this is new territory 
> so can you guide me a bit? It says to use patch 53. I assume that's available 
> as a pull request on Github (also new to me). Can you give me instruction on 
> how to find the patch? Could you give me basic instructions on applying it? 
> Would I download the tar file and then install it at Dom0 terminal? New 
> ground, all of it. Not afraid of it just need a push.
> 
> Thanks,
> Patrick

Just would like to add to my last post that I found some code related to the 
bugzilla, here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=6590

So would I somehow install that and how? Or, download a tar file and install 
(and how?)

Thanks,
Patrick

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Re: [qubes-users] Long boot time for "Initialize and mount /rw and /home" unit

[Chris Laprise]

On 02/03/2017 10:30 AM, Alex wrote:

On 02/01/2017 04:09 AM, Chris Laprise wrote:

On 01/31/2017 03:55 PM, Alex wrote:

What I don't understand is... is this thing really comparing ~50GiB
of disk on every boot with a stream of 50 billion zeros just to see
if a filesystem exists? It's weird, because if this was the case I
would have to wait a long time on every boot, while this does not
happen; on 1 in 3 boots, the VM starts up in ~20 seconds instead of
the usual 5 minutes.

I have VMs with even larger /rw filesystems, and they start in about
7 sec. under Debian 9. I don't think I have ever experienced this
issue with Fedora 23/24 either.

My guess about the dd|diff comparison in 'setup-rwdev.sh' is that
diff is closing its connection with dd as soon as it sees non-zero
data. This should cause both dd and diff to terminate immediately.


If this is the case, then I don't understand why the check is made this
way. Why not check only the first 512MiB, for example? No reasonable FS
would leave that much space wasted.


I wondered that myself. Probably there was a high confidence that the 
pipe would work as predicted, and there would be no large+blank volumes.



Anyway, I've had this same problem today (Long time for that unit), and
I had the logged proof that the diff does take less than one second to
complete, but after the resize2fs pass, I have an error in the log,
saying "Please run 'e2fsck -f /dev/xvdb' first.".

I'll dig further to inspect why the volume was somehow marked as "not
clean", because last shutdown was trouble-free (no fsck should be
needed), and because the wait for this unit (the fsck took 1'40" to
complete) caused a qrexec-not-connected error, that prevented the
automated completion of the boot process and the launch of some programs.


Good luck. I have an opposite issue: VMs on newer templates (Debian 9, 
Fedora 25) are taking up to 3min to shutdown.


Chris

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Re: [qubes-users] Monitor won't wake up after temporary hdmi switchover

[Patrick Bouldin]

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 12:28:36 AM UTC-5, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> On 2017-02-02 07:57, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
> > Hello again, this problem is really causing issues. I have multiple
> > hdmi connections on my monitor. Whenever I switch over, away from
> > the Qubes machine, and then back again, the Qubes machine loses its
> > hdmi connection. I can tell the machine is still running, and ok,
> > but I can't see anything!
> > 
> > PS - on boot, I'm still always getting this error: [FAILED] Failed
> > to start Load Kernel Modules.
> > 
> > Could this be related? It seems to operate fine, except for the
> > hdmi monitor.
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you, Patrick
> > 
> 
> Maybe this is the same issue?
> 
> https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2387
> 
> - -- 
> Andrew David Wong (Axon)
> Community Manager, Qubes OS
> https://www.qubes-os.org
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> =6EOQ
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-

Hi, it does look like it. I searched around a lot and this is new territory so 
can you guide me a bit? It says to use patch 53. I assume that's available as a 
pull request on Github (also new to me). Can you give me instruction on how to 
find the patch? Could you give me basic instructions on applying it? Would I 
download the tar file and then install it at Dom0 terminal? New ground, all of 
it. Not afraid of it just need a push.

Thanks,
Patrick

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Re: [qubes-users] Workaround for building Ubuntu xenial+desktop with qubes-builder

[Unman]

On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 06:21:15AM +, Nick Darren wrote:
> 
> 
> On 02/02/2017 12:07 AM, Unman wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 11:00:41AM -0800, Andrew M wrote:
> >> Thanks Unman,
> >>
> >> This bug is currently affecting my work so it would be greatly
> >> appreciated if it were resolved :)
> >>
> >>
> >> On 01/29/2017 06:38 PM, Unman wrote:
> >>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:31:38PM +, Nick Darren wrote:
>  /Hi all,/
> 
> 
>  On 01/24/2017 06:59 AM, anoa wrote:
> > Hey all,
> >
> > Today I was trying to build the Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial+Desktop template
> > using qubes-builder with help from these instructions:
> >
> > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-builder
> >
> > Everything was alright until the `make qubes-vm` step where it would
> > fail on the following:
> >
> >> dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (quilt)': no 
> >> upstream tarball found at ../xen_4.6.3.orig.tar.{bz2,gz,lzma,xz}
> >> dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-source -b debian-vm gave error exit 
> >> status 255
> >> /home/user/qubes-builder/qubes-src/builder-debian/Makefile.qubuntu:196:
> >>  recipe for target 'dist-package' failed
> > The build was looking for xen_4.6.3 when in fact xen_4.6.4 is in the
> > folder. As a workaround, simply copying the xen_4.6.4 to be named
> > xen.4.6.3 allowed the build to continue and eventually complete
> > successfully:
> >
> >> cd /path/to/qubes-builder/chroot-xenial/home/user/qubes-src/vmm-xen; 
> >> sudo cp -pr ./xen_4.6.4.orig.tar.gz ./xen_4.6.3.orig.tar.gz
>  /It doesn't work by just rename the 'xen_4.6.4.orig.tar.gz' on
>  chroot-xenial. On my case (on testing to build xenial-desktop) needs to
>  copy the file to /path/to/qubes-builder/qubes-src/vmm-xen/. there. Then,
>  it will skip the error message and allowed the build successfully./
> 
> > Hope this helps someone while the script is being updated.
> >
>  /I have another weird situation. The build was succeed but the problem
>  is, terminal and some others application cannot be launched due to an
>  error, normally on ubuntu's standard installation caused by locales
>  issue. Tried to fix it the way it used to be on normal ubuntu
>  installation or archlinux. But the problem still persists after
>  rebooting the template-vm or any appvms that's based on it./
> 
>  user@ubuntu-xenial:~$ Error constructing proxy for
>  org.gnome.Terminal:/org/gnome/Terminal/Factory0: Error calling
>  StartServiceByName for org.gnome.Terminal:
>  GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ChildSignaled: Process
>  org.gnome.Terminal received signal 5
> 
>  /Test on executing gedit from xterm/UXterm/urvtx:/
> 
>  user@ubuntu-xenial:~$ gedit
>  Gedit failure to execute.
>  (gedit:5697): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: No GSettings schemas are installed on
>  the system
>  Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped)
> 
> 
>  /The same error happen when I execute the 'xfce4-terminal' or
>  'terminator'. Still the same 'Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped)'
>  issues here and there./
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  /Locale was set in order to avoid gnome-terminal error, but it' useless
>  on this case and still failed to work./
> 
>  user@ubuntu-xenial:~$ localectl
> System Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8
> VC Keymap: us
>    X11 Layout: us
> X11 Model: pc105+inet
>   X11 Options: terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> 
>  
> 
>  /On checking qubes local packages installed on the 'xenial-desktop' 
>  system.
>  /
>  libqubes-rpc-filecopy2/now 3.2.3+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    Qubes file copy protocol library
> 
>  libqubesdb/now 3.2.3-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    QubesDB libs.
> 
>  libvchan-xen/now 3.2.0-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    Qubes Xen core libraries
> 
>  libxen-4.6/now 2001:4.6.3-25+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    Libraries for Xen tools
> 
>  qubes-core-agent/now 3.2.15-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    Qubes core agent
> 
>  qubes-gui-agent/now 3.2.13-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    Makes X11 windows available to qubes dom0
> 
>  qubes-utils/now 3.2.3+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    Qubes Linux utilities
> 
>  qubesdb/now 3.2.3-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    QubesDB management tools and daemon.
> 
>  qubesdb-vm/now 3.2.3-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    QubesDB VM service.
> 
>  xserver-xorg-input-qubes/now 3.2.13-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    X input driver for injecting events from qubes-gui-agent
> 
>  xserver-xorg-video-dummyqbs/now 3.2.13-1+xenialu1 amd64 [installed,local]
>    Dummy X video driver for qubes-gui-agent
> 

[qubes-users] qvm-run --dispvm in dom0

[john.david.r.smith]

hi.
is there some way to launch a dispvm from dom0 and execute a command (just like 
`qvm-run --dispvm` in domu) or do i need to create a temporary vm?

-john

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Re: [qubes-users] Long boot time for "Initialize and mount /rw and /home" unit

[Alex]

On 02/01/2017 04:09 AM, Chris Laprise wrote:
> On 01/31/2017 03:55 PM, Alex wrote:
>> What I don't understand is... is this thing really comparing ~50GiB
>> of disk on every boot with a stream of 50 billion zeros just to see
>> if a filesystem exists? It's weird, because if this was the case I
>> would have to wait a long time on every boot, while this does not
>> happen; on 1 in 3 boots, the VM starts up in ~20 seconds instead of
>> the usual 5 minutes.
> 
> I have VMs with even larger /rw filesystems, and they start in about
> 7 sec. under Debian 9. I don't think I have ever experienced this
> issue with Fedora 23/24 either.
> 
> My guess about the dd|diff comparison in 'setup-rwdev.sh' is that
> diff is closing its connection with dd as soon as it sees non-zero
> data. This should cause both dd and diff to terminate immediately.
> 
If this is the case, then I don't understand why the check is made this
way. Why not check only the first 512MiB, for example? No reasonable FS
would leave that much space wasted.

Anyway, I've had this same problem today (Long time for that unit), and
I had the logged proof that the diff does take less than one second to
complete, but after the resize2fs pass, I have an error in the log,
saying "Please run 'e2fsck -f /dev/xvdb' first.".

I'll dig further to inspect why the volume was somehow marked as "not
clean", because last shutdown was trouble-free (no fsck should be
needed), and because the wait for this unit (the fsck took 1'40" to
complete) caused a qrexec-not-connected error, that prevented the
automated completion of the boot process and the launch of some programs.


-- 
Alex

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[qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] NetVM very slow at starting up (or not starting up at all!)

[Dario Faggioli]

On Tue, 2017-01-31 at 19:13 -0800, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> (Replying on qubes-users, which is the appropriate list for threads
> like this one. Please see: https://www.qubes-os.org/mailing-lists/)
> 
Yeah, well, it did looked like a bug to me, that's why I posted on
devel. Anyway...

> On 2017-01-31 06:39, Dario Faggioli wrote:
> > The specific cause seems a bit random too. One time, it was
> > qubes-db which was not starting inside it (neither automatically,
> > nor if I tried manually). Another time I got a libvirt error saying
> > that the PCI ids of the network card was already assigned to
> > sys-net! :-O
> 
> That's strange. When you said "the NetVM" above, I thought you were
> referring to sys-net (the default NetVM). Are we talking about more
> than one VM here?
> 
Yes, it's sys-net.

> > Note that I've already tried re-installing and starting from
> > scratch a couple of times. At every attempt, all is ok until I
> > touch something withing the default fedora-23 template. :-(
> 
> This suggests that you might be doing something wrong when you
> manipulate the template. Perhaps you could provide a precise list of
> the steps you perform that affect the template?
> 
It turned out to be something similar/related to this:
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1449

I.e., too few (contiguous?) memory to start a VM with PCI devices
passed through to it.

This is a not so new laptop, with 8GB RAM. As I said, some of the time,
even without modifying anything, sys-net and sys-usb just can't get
started. Others, they do.

If I balloon down dom0 before trying to starting them, like this:

xl mem-set 0 1500

everything works. So far, instead of touching swiotlb, I've worked it
around by passing "dom0_mem=1536,max:4096".

With this, system VMs start at boot, and this is enough for me right
now.

Thanks and Regards,
Dario
-- 
<> (Raistlin Majere)
-
Dario Faggioli, Ph.D, http://about.me/dario.faggioli
Senior Software Engineer, Citrix Systems R Ltd., Cambridge (UK)

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[qubes-users] qvm-usb fails if sys-usb template is set to fedora-24-minimal

[Grzesiek Chodzicki]

qubes-usb-proxy not installed in VM is thrown in dom0 terminal after running 
qvm-usb -a if sys-usb uses minimal fedora 24 template. Necessary packages were 
installed in fedora-24-minimal beforehand

Steps to reproduce:
1. Launch fedora-24-minimal terminal
2. sudo dnf install qubes-usb-proxy qubes-input-proxy-sender (or switch to root 
beforehand if sudo not installed)
3. Shutdown fedora-24-minimal
4. Shutdown sys-usb
5. Change sys-usb template to fedora-24-minimal (qvm-prefs -s sys-usb template 
fedora-24-minimal)
6. Launch sys-usb
7. Try attaching any USB device via qvm-usb

Observed behavior:
ERROR: qubes-usb-proxy not installed in VM

Expected behavior:
Device is attached to an AppVM

Additional details:
Switching the template back to regular fedora-24 causes the qvm-usb to work 
fine.

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[qubes-users] Installing qubes-window-tools makes win7 HVM GUI unusable

[Jarle Thorsen]

I have now found the very slow GUI described in my previous thread 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-users/gzS8Zc9StxQ/gSwEC-fdFAAJ to be a 
direct result of installing the qubes-windows-tools into the VM.

That's why I'm starting a new thread focusing on this problem here.

After initial install of a brand new win7 VM everything works "just fine", I 
can drag windows across the desktop even when running VM in max resolution, 
without any delay.

However after installing qubes-windows-tools and rebooting it is like I am 
running a totally different OS. If I try to drag a window from one place to the 
other there is a delay of more than a second before the window is moved to the 
new location. Using qubes-windows-tools 3.2.1 or 3.2.2 make no difference.

Which log files should I look into (post here?) to track this down?

 

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Re: wlan with kernel 4.8 (Re: [qubes-users] HCL - Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Yoga 2016 (20FQ005UGE))

[Holger Levsen]

Hi Robin,

On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 07:22:47PM +0100, Robin Schneider wrote:
> You don’t have to restart all the VMs, luckily, which I learned shortly after
> posting this. There is a pretty simple trick going around. Just set your
> sys-firewall to no net vm, restart your net vm and reattach your sys-firewall
> back to the net vm :)

awesome! just tested this and indeed this works nicely! Yay Yay Yay, thanks a 
lot!

(still looking forward to fix this properly but for now, this will work for me.)


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cheers,
Holger

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Devilspie2 integration

[Andrew David Wong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2017-02-03 00:27, Hack wrote:
> On 02/03/2017 09:05 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote: On 2017-02-02
> 23:13, Hack wrote:
 On 02/03/2017 06:35 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote: On
 2017-02-02 06:09, Hack wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with
>>> Devilspie2 at first install?
>>> 
>>> Like this, we could have, by default? some virtual
>>> desktops attributed to some task.
>>> 
>>> For example:
>>> 
>>> * Desktop 1 = administration tasks (sys-firewall,
>>> sys-net, etc…) * Desktop 2 = Personal * Desktop 3 =
>>> Work * and so on
>>> 
>>> Maybe with some color "matching" on the tool bars?
>>> 
>>> Of course, with the option to customize it.
>>> 
 
 [Copying my reply from qubes-devel. Please don't send
 duplicate messages to both lists.]
 
 This seems far too subjective to be built-in by default in a 
 sensible way, even with customization options. User
 preferences vary wildly. Some don't even use virtual desktops
 at all.
 
 Why not simply install Devilspie2 (or a similar program)
 yourself and set up your own virtual desktops as you please,
 if that's what you desire?
 
> 
 
 Yes, of course I can install Devilspie2, but I think it can
 be useful for people, like me, who use virtual desktops.
 
 It can be provided as an option during the installation.
 Thereby, we could have the choice of having Devilspie2
 installed by default (1 virtual desktop by Domain), and then,
 customize it, or not having Devilspie2 "activated".
 
 Because I think, it can be a good idea, *not only for me*, I 
 suggest this.
 
> 
> I see that you're intent on ignoring my request not to send
> duplicate messages to qubes-devel and qubes-users. That's very
> disappointing.
> 
> At any rate, I've replied to you on qubes-devel:
> 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-devel/b0gJGe3OktY/edd3LbkXDQAJ
>
> 
>> 
> With all due respect, as Community Manager, you should always
> search 'for an excuse'…
> 

I understand where you're coming from. The problem I've found is that,
when one deals with as many trolls as I do on a daily basis, always
searching for an excuse simply invites further trolling.

> I did not intend to ignore your message. I was barely awake, and
> screw up.
> 

No problem then. :)

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[qubes-users] Re: Possible to get usable Win7 gui?

[Jarle Thorsen]

> "Is it possible to have a Windows VM without any lag".
> 
> Yes, I can confirm that it is possible. I run Windows 7 completely lag free 
> on Qubes OS, it feels very snappy and instant, just as if it was running bare 
> metal. Both with or without seamless mode. 
> 
> I've installed Qubes Windows Manager completely according to the official 
> Qubes guidelines.
> 
> My setup that runs Win7 smoothly
> - QVM instance: Windows 7 64-bit
> - CPU: i5 6500 3.2GHz (default set to two cores). 
> - Total system RAM: 24GB 
> - QVM Win7 memory allocation: 5GB.
> - Disc allocation: 100GB (Make sure Windows has plenty free space).
> - Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 530 (CPU integrated graphics)
> - Triple monitor setup, all controlled by Intel integrated graphics 
> (HDMI/HDMI/VGA).
> - Seamless mode, sometimes on, sometimes off.
> 
> In case you use VGA monitors, then VGA monitor in my case causes some issues 
> that impacts screen tearing a bit if used together with HDMI, only a slight 
> second when moving app between screens. It is slightly annoying though, and I 
> haven't looked into that yet. Though just be aware that VGA monitors might 
> not play too well with HDMI/Display monitors, in case you use a setup like 
> that.
> 
> You don't need 24GB memory, i.e. I got more than plenty, you will be fine 
> with less. How much is a good guess though, I would say total system 8k GB 
> memory is fine (Qubes 4k, Windows 4k each is fine for normal use), just don't 
> open too many memory hungry VM's at the same time.
> 
> My CPU and its integrated graphics isn't top notch, but not all bad either, 
> so if your system is anywhere near these specs, it is probably a 
> software/driver/Bios-setting issue and not hardware performance related.
> 
> I found in my early Qubes days that Nvidia with the nouveau driver was laggy 
> as hell, to put it mildly. My nvidia GPU that I first ran Qubes on was 
> GTX1060, which is now retired from my Qubes setup. The GTX 1060 with nouveau 
> ran though, barely. It was by no means smooth, neither in Dom0 or any QVM's, 
> one big hell of lag. Some older graphic cards than 1060 might do better with 
> the nouveau drivers, but the newer the card the less perfect it will likely 
> run in Qubes (i.e. might be the case in your situation). The moment I took 
> out my monitors from my nvidia card and instead plugged them to my 
> motherboard internal graphics, I became completely lag free, and everything 
> was really smooth (Shutdown Qubes first, so it can boot proper graphic 
> drivers). I get stressed by lag, so I can definitely say that the contrast 
> was big to when I used nvidia, I feel nothing now with Intel graphics, it's 
> smooth. As many has said before with Qubes, Intel or many of the AMD 
> graphics, just works. Nvidia with their monopolistic product designs is a big 
> pain in the *** as they try to shove their market fragmented profit maximized 
> proprietary garbage down our throats... *ahem*... we lack competition (Go 
> AMD!). 
> 
> Anyway, In Bios, in case you have such a setting, then make sure to check if 
> on-board graphics are set to CPU, and not GPU. Furthermore be vary of any 
> "shared" memory features between CPU/GPU in the BIOS, when I turned mine on 
> it made Qubes's graphics teary and really laggy. This might hypothetically be 
> more or less laggy depending on the hardware used, make sure to test the 
> difference by turning it off if you got it on.
> 
> So if you got multiple graphic cards, this may be a source to your problems, 
> especially if it is nvidia. If you are dual-booting (despite that it isn't 
> the best to do in terms of security), then you can still make use of your 
> nvidia card in other OS's, i.e. Windows should still detect your nvidia card. 
> If you are running it on a desktop instead of a laptop, then you can use a 
> KVM switch to switch between CPU/GPU graphic cards as you dual boot.
> 
> Qubes OS doesn't need heavy graphics anyhow, not as long as heavy graphics 
> industry users, or gamers, isn't a supported audience target group by the 
> Qubes developers. 
> 
> Off-topic: However it has me puzzled why nothing more hasn't been done to 
> support heavy graphics, it would make many more potential users interested in 
> Qubes OS if it was possible to run heavy graphics on Qubes, such as games. 
> Perhaps the security issue it creates is just too big and unfix-able or time 
> consuming *shrugh* 
> 
> Lagging (pun intended ;) a bit info on your hardware setup, so I took the 
> liberty to make guesses. I hope any of this was of help to you, I had a laggy 
> Qubes too before I found the proper setup (i.e. ditching my nvidia card).
> 
> P.s. if you haven't tried already, try experiment and reduce the resolution 
> to something less, see if it makes any difference.

Thank you very much for your very thorough answer!

OK, I'll add some more info about my HW:

I have a Dell workstation with 2 x Xeon E5-2687W CPUs with a total of 16 
physical cores, 

[qubes-users] Re: Devilspie2 integration

[Hack]

On 02/03/2017 09:05 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2017-02-02 23:13, Hack wrote:

On 02/03/2017 06:35 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote: On 2017-02-02
06:09, Hack wrote:

Hi,

Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with Devilspie2 at
first install?

Like this, we could have, by default? some virtual desktops
attributed to some task.

For example:

* Desktop 1 = administration tasks (sys-firewall, sys-net,
etc…) * Desktop 2 = Personal * Desktop 3 = Work * and so on

Maybe with some color "matching" on the tool bars?

Of course, with the option to customize it.



[Copying my reply from qubes-devel. Please don't send duplicate
messages to both lists.]

This seems far too subjective to be built-in by default in a
sensible way, even with customization options. User preferences
vary wildly. Some don't even use virtual desktops at all.

Why not simply install Devilspie2 (or a similar program) yourself
and set up your own virtual desktops as you please, if that's what
you desire?





Yes, of course I can install Devilspie2, but I think it can be
useful for people, like me, who use virtual desktops.

It can be provided as an option during the installation. Thereby,
we could have the choice of having Devilspie2 installed by default
(1 virtual desktop by Domain), and then, customize it, or not
having Devilspie2 "activated".

Because I think, it can be a good idea, *not only for me*, I
suggest this.



I see that you're intent on ignoring my request not to send duplicate
messages to qubes-devel and qubes-users. That's very disappointing.

At any rate, I've replied to you on qubes-devel:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-devel/b0gJGe3OktY/edd3LbkXDQAJ

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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With all due respect, as Community Manager, you should always search 
'for an excuse'…


I did not intend to ignore your message. I was barely awake, and screw up.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Installing using pacman command

['Olivier Médoc' via qubes-users]

On 02/03/2017 03:45 AM, Tim W wrote:
> On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 9:14:45 AM UTC-5, trule...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi, Tim. Olivier said :
>>
>> "Archlinux currently upgraded xorg and pulseaudio, however the integrated 
>> archlinux gui agent must be build for strict versions of xorg-server and 
>> pulseaudio. For this reason, you have to rebuild the agent using the 
>> most recent qubes repository, or wait for binary agents to be available. "
>>
>> Powerpill or Pacman, it doesn't matter, update system and break dependency 
>> and can't install anything.
> Ok I miss understood the issue.   Yes that is the same issue we ran into if 
> you do a search on the template a while back.  For that is was pulseaudio.   
> When xorg or pulseaduio versions are updated by ARchlinux we end up having to 
> rebuild the template from source.  If not you just get the failed errors when 
> trying to update.
>
> The issue I was originally speaking of was not being able to assign pacman a 
> proxy ip to use the qubes update proxy.  AT least not without breaking the 
> security model for it hence the while powerpill etc comments.  
>
> THere is another thread running concurrently that is dealing with the same 
> issue so maybe best to just use that thread to address the issue.
>
Hello,

Using the proxy instead of opening the firewall is actually fixed in the
qubes-core-agent-linux code (qubes-vm-core in archlinux).

If you take a look, qubes specific pacman configuration has been added
in /etc/pacman.d. I made the change some time ago, but I discovered
recently that I made an error in the package install file that enable
configuration files in /etc/pacman.d.

Another point is that I provide signed binary packages (as documented
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/archlinux/) that you have to
enable explicitly, so that you don't have necessarilly to rebuild packages.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Devilspie2 integration

[Andrew David Wong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2017-02-02 23:13, Hack wrote:
> On 02/03/2017 06:35 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote: On 2017-02-02
> 06:09, Hack wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Could it be possible to provide Qubes OS with Devilspie2 at
 first install?
 
 Like this, we could have, by default? some virtual desktops
 attributed to some task.
 
 For example:
 
 * Desktop 1 = administration tasks (sys-firewall, sys-net,
 etc…) * Desktop 2 = Personal * Desktop 3 = Work * and so on
 
 Maybe with some color "matching" on the tool bars?
 
 Of course, with the option to customize it.
 
> 
> [Copying my reply from qubes-devel. Please don't send duplicate
> messages to both lists.]
> 
> This seems far too subjective to be built-in by default in a
> sensible way, even with customization options. User preferences
> vary wildly. Some don't even use virtual desktops at all.
> 
> Why not simply install Devilspie2 (or a similar program) yourself
> and set up your own virtual desktops as you please, if that's what
> you desire?
> 
>> 
> 
> Yes, of course I can install Devilspie2, but I think it can be
> useful for people, like me, who use virtual desktops.
> 
> It can be provided as an option during the installation. Thereby,
> we could have the choice of having Devilspie2 installed by default
> (1 virtual desktop by Domain), and then, customize it, or not
> having Devilspie2 "activated".
> 
> Because I think, it can be a good idea, *not only for me*, I
> suggest this.
> 

I see that you're intent on ignoring my request not to send duplicate
messages to qubes-devel and qubes-users. That's very disappointing.

At any rate, I've replied to you on qubes-devel:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-devel/b0gJGe3OktY/edd3LbkXDQAJ

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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