Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Tomáš Vondra]

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 3:42:38 PM UTC+2, Claudia wrote:
>
> Tomáš Vondra: 
> > 
> > 
> > On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 7:45:40 PM UTC+2, Tomáš Vondra wrote: 
> >> 
> >> On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 4:36:57 PM UTC+2, Claudia wrote: 
> >> 
> > ... 
> >>   
> >> 
> >>> There is a pre-release 4.1 iso available. 
> >>> https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3021 
> >>> <
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fopenqa.qubes-os.org%2Ftests%2F3021=D=1=AFQjCNEtwV-7EB_Hj9-89w3F8kL7XBW3pA>
>  
>
> >>> - this is a kind of old link so 
> >>> newer builds may be available. I could not get it to install on my 
> >>> machine so I couldn't test suspend on it, but it might work for you. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> Thanks for the link. I gave it a try and there seems to be some 
> >> improvement compared - the installer now works out of the box, without 
> >> having to tweak it like I had to with Qubes 4.0. Unfortunately, the 
> >> suspend/resume issue is still there, although maybe it actually gets to 
> >> sleep this time (but still does not wake up). 
> >> 
> >> I've tried looking for a newer build (the one you posted is from July, 
> so 
> >> a couple of months ol), but I haven't found anything. I've been trying 
> to 
> >> build ISO locally over the past two weeks, but I keep running into 
> issues 
> >> so I haven't been successful in that. 
> >>   
> >> 
> > 
> > OK, I've noticed there actually is a link to the latest job for that 
> > scenario, leading to https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3737 (which is 
> > 2019/08/22 instead of 2019/07/01). Unfortunately the suspend behavior is 
> > the same as for the older build :-( 
> > 
> > regards 
> > 
> >   
> > 
>
> You mean out of the box? Or when dom0 is brought fully up to date? Odds 
> are slim, but updating might fix the problem. Also enabling 
> testing/unstable repos might help. 
>
>
After updating dom0. Unfortunately I'm unable to switch to testing repos 
because dnf started complaining about a missing config file for some 
reason, and I haven't managed to fix that (yet).
 

> As far as building your own iso, I'm afraid I don't know anything about 
> that, but there are plenty of people on this list who could help if you 
> start a thread about the specific problems you're having. 
>
>
Yeah, I plan to try again and I'll start a new thread here (or maybe on 
qubes-devel, that seems like a better match).
 

> In general, debugging suspend/resume is quite difficult unless you're a 
> kernel developer with a serial console. However there are a couple of 
> things you can do that might get you a step further. 
>
> First, it's helpful to know if the machine is actually going into 
> suspend. Open a few terminals and run `sha256sum /dev/urandom` and wait 
> for the fans to start running. If you hear them stop, you know it 
> suspended. If, on resume, you hear them start up again, then it could be 
> that the machine is partially resuming but just the screen is not coming 
> back on (possibly indicative of a GPU or WiFi driver problem). Playing a 
> repeating sound probably has the same effect. You can also hit caps lock 
> and num lock after resume and see if the lights change. 
>   
>
Try shutting down all VMs before suspending. I think the command is 
> `qvm-shutdown --all --force --wait` or something like that. Make sure 
> they're all stopped (e.g., `qvm-ls`). This can tell you if something 
> with PCI passthru is causing a problem, such as (most likely) the NetVM 
> or UsbVM (wifi card, wifi driver, usb controller). 
>
> Another idea, try disabling VT-x and VT-d in BIOS, then boot Qubes and 
> try suspend. This might tell you if it's a Xen problem, or a firmware 
> bug related to VT-x, for example. 
>
> If the option is present, try disabling the onboard WiFi card in BIOS. 
> It's worth trying this for any other hardware too (dGPU, etc). 
>
>
Thanks, I'll do more experiments like this with it.
 

> Try upgrading your machine's firmware. On dell you can do this via 
> fwupd, Freedos, or using the boot-menu option to upgrade from USB drive. 
> On my Dell, option 3 was simply broken, so I had to do it from Freedos. 
>
>
That was the first thing I did after getting the laptop. I've managed to 
upgrade the BIOS only to 2.4.0, though. There is 2.5.0 but upgrading that 
from USB did not work. Unfortunately, fwupd does not seem to be supported 
for this laptop (at least that's my undestanding).
 

> Try installing Fedora with Xen (the basis of Qubes) and see if it 
> resumes from there. 
>
>
Hmmm? Not sure what you mean by Fedora with Xen? 
 

> There are also tons of techniques for debugging suspend on generic 
> Linux. You can play with acpi_osi=, mem_sleep_default=, `dmesg > 
> before.txt ; pm-suspend ; dmesg > after.txt`, the list goes on and on. 
> Here's a nice article to get you started: 
>
> https://01.org/blogs/rzhang/2015/best-practice-debug-linux-suspend/hibernate-issues
>  
>
> If you want to read my (thus-far unresolved) experience with suspend in 
> 

Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Claudia]

Tomáš Vondra:



On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 7:45:40 PM UTC+2, Tomáš Vondra wrote:


On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 4:36:57 PM UTC+2, Claudia wrote:


...
  


There is a pre-release 4.1 iso available.
https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3021

- this is a kind of old link so
newer builds may be available. I could not get it to install on my
machine so I couldn't test suspend on it, but it might work for you.



Thanks for the link. I gave it a try and there seems to be some
improvement compared - the installer now works out of the box, without
having to tweak it like I had to with Qubes 4.0. Unfortunately, the
suspend/resume issue is still there, although maybe it actually gets to
sleep this time (but still does not wake up).

I've tried looking for a newer build (the one you posted is from July, so
a couple of months ol), but I haven't found anything. I've been trying to
build ISO locally over the past two weeks, but I keep running into issues
so I haven't been successful in that.
  



OK, I've noticed there actually is a link to the latest job for that
scenario, leading to https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3737 (which is
2019/08/22 instead of 2019/07/01). Unfortunately the suspend behavior is
the same as for the older build :-(

regards

  



You mean out of the box? Or when dom0 is brought fully up to date? Odds 
are slim, but updating might fix the problem. Also enabling 
testing/unstable repos might help.


As far as building your own iso, I'm afraid I don't know anything about 
that, but there are plenty of people on this list who could help if you 
start a thread about the specific problems you're having.


In general, debugging suspend/resume is quite difficult unless you're a 
kernel developer with a serial console. However there are a couple of 
things you can do that might get you a step further.


First, it's helpful to know if the machine is actually going into 
suspend. Open a few terminals and run `sha256sum /dev/urandom` and wait 
for the fans to start running. If you hear them stop, you know it 
suspended. If, on resume, you hear them start up again, then it could be 
that the machine is partially resuming but just the screen is not coming 
back on (possibly indicative of a GPU or WiFi driver problem). Playing a 
repeating sound probably has the same effect. You can also hit caps lock 
and num lock after resume and see if the lights change.


Try shutting down all VMs before suspending. I think the command is 
`qvm-shutdown --all --force --wait` or something like that. Make sure 
they're all stopped (e.g., `qvm-ls`). This can tell you if something 
with PCI passthru is causing a problem, such as (most likely) the NetVM 
or UsbVM (wifi card, wifi driver, usb controller).


Another idea, try disabling VT-x and VT-d in BIOS, then boot Qubes and 
try suspend. This might tell you if it's a Xen problem, or a firmware 
bug related to VT-x, for example.


If the option is present, try disabling the onboard WiFi card in BIOS. 
It's worth trying this for any other hardware too (dGPU, etc).


Try upgrading your machine's firmware. On dell you can do this via 
fwupd, Freedos, or using the boot-menu option to upgrade from USB drive. 
On my Dell, option 3 was simply broken, so I had to do it from Freedos.


Try installing Fedora with Xen (the basis of Qubes) and see if it 
resumes from there.


There are also tons of techniques for debugging suspend on generic 
Linux. You can play with acpi_osi=, mem_sleep_default=, `dmesg > 
before.txt ; pm-suspend ; dmesg > after.txt`, the list goes on and on. 
Here's a nice article to get you started: 
https://01.org/blogs/rzhang/2015/best-practice-debug-linux-suspend/hibernate-issues


If you want to read my (thus-far unresolved) experience with suspend in 
painstaking detail, check out the rest of the thread starting with this 
message: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/qubes-users@googlegroups.com/msg29755.html


That's all I can think of at the moment, but hopefully enough to get you 
started.


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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Tomáš Vondra]

On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 7:45:40 PM UTC+2, Tomáš Vondra wrote:
>
> On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 4:36:57 PM UTC+2, Claudia wrote: 
>
...
>  
>
>> There is a pre-release 4.1 iso available. 
>> https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3021 
>> 
>>  
>> - this is a kind of old link so 
>> newer builds may be available. I could not get it to install on my 
>> machine so I couldn't test suspend on it, but it might work for you. 
>>
>>
> Thanks for the link. I gave it a try and there seems to be some 
> improvement compared - the installer now works out of the box, without 
> having to tweak it like I had to with Qubes 4.0. Unfortunately, the 
> suspend/resume issue is still there, although maybe it actually gets to 
> sleep this time (but still does not wake up).
>
> I've tried looking for a newer build (the one you posted is from July, so 
> a couple of months ol), but I haven't found anything. I've been trying to 
> build ISO locally over the past two weeks, but I keep running into issues 
> so I haven't been successful in that.
>  
>

OK, I've noticed there actually is a link to the latest job for that 
scenario, leading to https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3737 (which is 
2019/08/22 instead of 2019/07/01). Unfortunately the suspend behavior is 
the same as for the older build :-(

regards

 

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Tomáš Vondra]

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 4:36:57 PM UTC+2, Claudia wrote:
>
> Tomáš Vondra: 
> > Hi, 
> > 
> > I'm still struggling with the suspend issue, unfortunately, and I'm 
> kinda 
> > stuck so I'd appreciate some ideas what to try. 
> > 
> > Everything else seems to be working, but during suspend the laptop gets 
> > stuck (black screen, but I can hear the fans still spinning). And then 
> it 
> > does not wake up, of couse. 
> > 
> > I've tried installing new kernel, as described on 
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/software-update-dom0/ and I've even 
> switched 
> > to qubes-dom0-current-testing, but neither of that helped :-( 
> > 
> > I'm now on kernel 5.2.16, which is newer than what the Fedora/Ubuntu 
> > installs used (and suspend works fine with them), so there has to be 
> > something else, specific to qubes. But I have no idea what, and I'm not 
> > sure how to debug suspend. 
> > 
> > Any ideas? 
> > 
> > (I've been trying to build Qubes 4.1 as described on 
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/qubes-iso-building/, but I keep running 
> into 
> > various issues with that too, so I haven't been able to actually test 
> it.) 
> > 
> > thanks 
> > 
>
> I have the exact same suspend/resume problem on an Inspiron 5975, and 
> another user here recently had the same issue with a different laptop. 
> So it's pretty common I guess. 
>
>
OK. Good to know I'm not the only one affected by this.
 

> Qubes is stuck on F25 right now, and the hardware is too new for the 
> software. Same as you, I had it working under F30 with an older kernel, 
> but not under Qubes (F25) with a newer kernel, so it appears that maybe 
> userland has something to do with it too, not just the kernel. 
>
>
Yeah, that's my impression as well.
 

> I haven't been able to find any general remedy for this. I remember 
> reading somewhere that upgrading dom0 to F30 is more or less impossible. 
> You might be able to narrow down the userland components and upgrade 
> them individually, but I have no idea how to go about that. If you find 
> anything out, please let me know! 
>
>
Not sure, but I suspect running a F25 with some random subset of packages 
randomly updated to current version is going to be a major pita, or perhaps 
even impossible (because of dependencies with other packages). I'd much 
probably prefer running a pre-release version of Qubes 4.1 than such a 
hybrid.

 

> There is a pre-release 4.1 iso available. 
> https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3021 - this is a kind of old link so 
> newer builds may be available. I could not get it to install on my 
> machine so I couldn't test suspend on it, but it might work for you. 
>
>
Thanks for the link. I gave it a try and there seems to be some improvement 
compared - the installer now works out of the box, without having to tweak 
it like I had to with Qubes 4.0. Unfortunately, the suspend/resume issue is 
still there, although maybe it actually gets to sleep this time (but still 
does not wake up).

I've tried looking for a newer build (the one you posted is from July, so a 
couple of months ol), but I haven't found anything. I've been trying to 
build ISO locally over the past two weeks, but I keep running into issues 
so I haven't been successful in that.
 
thanks

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Claudia]

Tomáš Vondra:

Hi,

I'm still struggling with the suspend issue, unfortunately, and I'm kinda
stuck so I'd appreciate some ideas what to try.

Everything else seems to be working, but during suspend the laptop gets
stuck (black screen, but I can hear the fans still spinning). And then it
does not wake up, of couse.

I've tried installing new kernel, as described on
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/software-update-dom0/ and I've even switched
to qubes-dom0-current-testing, but neither of that helped :-(

I'm now on kernel 5.2.16, which is newer than what the Fedora/Ubuntu
installs used (and suspend works fine with them), so there has to be
something else, specific to qubes. But I have no idea what, and I'm not
sure how to debug suspend.

Any ideas?

(I've been trying to build Qubes 4.1 as described on
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/qubes-iso-building/, but I keep running into
various issues with that too, so I haven't been able to actually test it.)

thanks



I have the exact same suspend/resume problem on an Inspiron 5975, and 
another user here recently had the same issue with a different laptop. 
So it's pretty common I guess.


Qubes is stuck on F25 right now, and the hardware is too new for the 
software. Same as you, I had it working under F30 with an older kernel, 
but not under Qubes (F25) with a newer kernel, so it appears that maybe 
userland has something to do with it too, not just the kernel.


I haven't been able to find any general remedy for this. I remember 
reading somewhere that upgrading dom0 to F30 is more or less impossible. 
You might be able to narrow down the userland components and upgrade 
them individually, but I have no idea how to go about that. If you find 
anything out, please let me know!


There is a pre-release 4.1 iso available. 
https://openqa.qubes-os.org/tests/3021 - this is a kind of old link so 
newer builds may be available. I could not get it to install on my 
machine so I couldn't test suspend on it, but it might work for you.


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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Tomáš Vondra]

Hi,

I'm still struggling with the suspend issue, unfortunately, and I'm kinda 
stuck so I'd appreciate some ideas what to try.

Everything else seems to be working, but during suspend the laptop gets 
stuck (black screen, but I can hear the fans still spinning). And then it 
does not wake up, of couse.

I've tried installing new kernel, as described on 
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/software-update-dom0/ and I've even switched 
to qubes-dom0-current-testing, but neither of that helped :-(

I'm now on kernel 5.2.16, which is newer than what the Fedora/Ubuntu 
installs used (and suspend works fine with them), so there has to be 
something else, specific to qubes. But I have no idea what, and I'm not 
sure how to debug suspend.

Any ideas?

(I've been trying to build Qubes 4.1 as described on 
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/qubes-iso-building/, but I keep running into 
various issues with that too, so I haven't been able to actually test it.)

thanks

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Tomáš Vondra]

OK,

a quick update from me - I ended up buying this laptop and after much 
struggling I managed to get Qubes 4.0 running on it. I'm not done with it 
yet, so I plan to send HCL after (hopefully) solving the remaining issues.

The laptop is fairly "clean" (integrated GPU, etc.) and comes with Ubuntu 
16.04. I've upgraded it to Ubuntu 18.04, which also worked fine.

Installing Qubes 4.0 turned out to be pretty difficult, though. The 
graphical installer was failing to start, and the text mode does not work 
as it does not allow setting passphrase for disk encryption :-( So to use 
the text mode I'd have to automate the install using a kickstart script, 
but I've never done that before so I've tried other things first.

Firstly, I've tried to install current Fedora 30 (regular and then the Xfce 
spin), because those uses the same installer. And in both cases it works 
just fine - apparently there's something different in the Qubes installer 
that makes it fail when starting the graphical environment. A bit of 
searching lead me to this:

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/uefi-troubleshooting/

Removing the noexitboot and mapbs options from the xen.cfg did the trick, 
and after that the installation went mostly smoothly. The touchpad does not 
work during installation, but I had the same issue on the previous laptop 
(Dell Precision 5510) so I wasn't particularly worried about it knowing 
it'll start working after reboot. After that, the installation completed 
OK, Qubes do boot just fine and the touchpad works.

Almost everything works fine - wifi, sound, ... (haven't tried the rj45, 
but I don't really care). The one exception is suspend (and poweroff seems 
a bit wonky too).

1) During suspend, the laptop simply does not wake up. I'm not sure if it 
"hangs" during the suspend or when waking it up, all I see is a blank 
screen. IIRC it worked just fine in both Ubuntu and Fedora, although I 
don't recall if I tried it explicitly (it's be weird if it did not work in 
ubuntu, which was preinstalled). So my guess is this is due to something 
being obsolete in dom0, which is still on fc25 in Qubes 4.0. Not sure what 
to do about this - how/what to investigate :-( I'd appreciate suggestions 
that to do about this. I'm considering trying to build Qubes 4.1 which I 
think uses fc29 (at least judging by 
https://ftp.qubes-os.org/repo/yum/r4.1/current-testing/dom0/) but that 
seems more like an experiment than a reliable solution.

2) During poweroff/reboot, the laptop prints a lot of messages from 
device-mapper about ioctl failures, missing reboot-parameter file and then 
hangs after printing "Restarting system". It might be intermittent, though, 
or maybe it depends on something else.

regards

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[Tomáš Vondra]

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:57:41 PM UTC+2, 799 wrote:
>
> Hello Tomas,
>
> Tomáš Vondra > schrieb am Sa., 14. Sep. 
> 2019, 12:07:
>
> has anyone tried running Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581 laptop? I've been using 
> a different Dell laptop until now, but I may need a replacement and this 
> seems reasonable.
>
>
> The Dell Vostro 5581 is not on the Qubes Hardware Compatible List (HCL)
> https://www.qubes-os.org/hcl/
>
>
Yes, I know - checking HCL was the first thing I did, sorry for not 
mentioning that.
 

> But it seems to work with Linux:
> https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201808-26383
>
>
Yup. It seems to be a somewhat different configuration, though. It has an 
i3 CPU (although from the same generation and with the same feature set) 
and Atheros wifi (the model I'm looking at seems to use Intel).
 

> Therefore I think it _should_ work fine with Qubes.
> If you test Qubes on it, please submit a HCL Report, so that users might 
> get an answer to your question.
>
>
Sure. Long time ago I've submitted HCL for the laptop I've been using until 
now, I'll do the same with the new one.

regards

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Re: [qubes-users] Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581?

[799]

Hello Tomas,

Tomáš Vondra  schrieb am Sa., 14. Sep. 2019, 12:07:

has anyone tried running Qubes on Dell Vostro 5581 laptop? I've been using
a different Dell laptop until now, but I may need a replacement and this
seems reasonable.


The Dell Vostro 5581 is not on the Qubes Hardware Compatible List (HCL)
https://www.qubes-os.org/hcl/

But it seems to work with Linux:
https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201808-26383

Therefore I think it _should_ work fine with Qubes.
If you test Qubes on it, please submit a HCL Report, so that users might
get an answer to your question.

[799]

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