Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[pixel fairy]

On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 11:44:08 AM UTC-7, grzegorz@gmail.com wrote:
> W dniu niedziela, 21 sierpnia 2016 20:32:34 UTC+2 użytkownik pixel fairy 
> napisał:
> > > We'll probably have to repeat the same steps in a Chrome OS VM.
> > 
> > where would you get one? you mean chromiumos?
> 
> i meant this:
> http://getchrome.eu/download.php

thats just chromium on cinnamon desktop. there are builds you can download for 
chromiumos, and a couple vagrant files to build it for you. if signal really 
depends on the play store this may or may not work. 

the code could be forked and ported to electron, but it would still be up to 
whispersystems if they want to support that.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[grzegorz . chodzicki]

W dniu niedziela, 21 sierpnia 2016 20:32:34 UTC+2 użytkownik pixel fairy 
napisał:
> > We'll probably have to repeat the same steps in a Chrome OS VM.
> 
> where would you get one? you mean chromiumos?

i meant this:
http://getchrome.eu/download.php

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[pixel fairy]

 
> We'll probably have to repeat the same steps in a Chrome OS VM.

where would you get one? you mean chromiumos?

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[grzegorz . chodzicki]

W dniu sobota, 20 sierpnia 2016 02:07:17 UTC+2 użytkownik Gaijin napisał:
> On 2016-08-17 16:08, Chris Laprise wrote:
> > On 08/17/2016 11:35 AM, johnyju...@sigaint.org wrote:
> >> On the Signal matter, just some personal paranoia Re: Signal and 
> >> Google
> >> Play Services:
> >> 
> >> I've been the subject of some rather intense and ongoing hacking 
> >> (iPhone,
> >> iPad, Android phone/tablet, PC, MacBook, cable modem connection, you 
> >> name
> >> it).
> >> 
> >> On the Android phone, I wiped it several times, and switched to 
> >> Cyanogen,
> >> but the "weirdness" kept coming back.  (Seeing stuff being recorded,
> >> logged, queued to upload etc., when scrutinizing the filesystem with 
> >> adb.)
> >>   The issues often seemed to dance around Google Play Services.
> >> 
> >> The problem kept coming back, until last time, when I wiped the phone 
> >> yet
> >> again, but didn't install Google Play Store (and thus no Google Play
> >> Services).  Things *appear* to be stable and secure now, with no
> >> logging/recording/uploading weirdness showing up on the filesystem.
> >> 
> >> I'd like to install and use Signal for obvious reasons, but I honestly
> >> don't trust Google Store/Services enough to take the risk.
> >> 
> >> (I have a psycho ex with some crooked cop buddies, so I half suspect 
> >> some
> >> law enforcement/government hook might be present in Google Play 
> >> Services.
> >> Speculation of course.  But I'll personally stay clear for now.  I'm 
> >> not
> >> doing anything illegal, but with crooked cops it really doesn't matter
> >> much.  :) )
> >> 
> >> I did get a copy of Signal from apkmirror, but I expect it might not 
> >> work
> >> without Play Services, and I'm not sure it'd be smart to implicitly 
> >> trust
> >> apkmirror, either.  So I'll keep my SmartPhone as a DumbPhone for now.
> >> 
> >> I was kind of excited to hear about Signal for Chromium, but 
> >> disappointed
> >> to find it relied upon you also having it installed on your 
> >> smartphone.
> >> 
> >> Aand then there's this:
> >> http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/not-ok-google-chromium-voice-extension-pulled-after-spying-concerns/
> >> 
> >> Not cool, Google.
> >> 
> >> Cheers.  :)
> >> 
> > 
> > I have to say I don't understand the logic of tying an app like Signal
> > to Google, meaning the user is attached to Google at the hip.
> > Especially when an app like Ring.cx operates without a browser or even
> > a server, which seems far less risky.
> > 
> > Chris
> 
> But Google just announced their end of support for Chrome apps on 
> Windows, Mac, and Linux in early 2018.
> https://blog.chromium.org/2016/08/from-chrome-apps-to-web.html
> Won't that kill the Signal app?

We'll probably have to repeat the same steps in a Chrome OS VM.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[RSS]

> Is F-Droid's Silence any better than Signal given it can run without
> Google Play Store?

I use CyanogenMod Android minus most of the Google malware (ie. no
Google play). In that configuration Signal refuses to work because it
(at least) depends on Google Play for notifications. Silence however
does not, and works great. On Android, with a sim card.

However, it is my (not deeply researched!!) understanding that the
Signal dev(s) do not like/permit other applications connecting to their
servers. No servers, no direct messages, all Silence messages are
necessarily SMS messages going over the phone network. So Silence will
not work outside of a phone with a working sim card.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[Chris Laprise]

On 08/17/2016 11:35 AM, johnyju...@sigaint.org wrote:

On the Signal matter, just some personal paranoia Re: Signal and Google
Play Services:

I've been the subject of some rather intense and ongoing hacking (iPhone,
iPad, Android phone/tablet, PC, MacBook, cable modem connection, you name
it).

On the Android phone, I wiped it several times, and switched to Cyanogen,
but the "weirdness" kept coming back.  (Seeing stuff being recorded,
logged, queued to upload etc., when scrutinizing the filesystem with adb.)
  The issues often seemed to dance around Google Play Services.

The problem kept coming back, until last time, when I wiped the phone yet
again, but didn't install Google Play Store (and thus no Google Play
Services).  Things *appear* to be stable and secure now, with no
logging/recording/uploading weirdness showing up on the filesystem.

I'd like to install and use Signal for obvious reasons, but I honestly
don't trust Google Store/Services enough to take the risk.

(I have a psycho ex with some crooked cop buddies, so I half suspect some
law enforcement/government hook might be present in Google Play Services.
Speculation of course.  But I'll personally stay clear for now.  I'm not
doing anything illegal, but with crooked cops it really doesn't matter
much.  :) )

I did get a copy of Signal from apkmirror, but I expect it might not work
without Play Services, and I'm not sure it'd be smart to implicitly trust
apkmirror, either.  So I'll keep my SmartPhone as a DumbPhone for now.

I was kind of excited to hear about Signal for Chromium, but disappointed
to find it relied upon you also having it installed on your smartphone.

Aand then there's this:
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/not-ok-google-chromium-voice-extension-pulled-after-spying-concerns/

Not cool, Google.

Cheers.  :)



I have to say I don't understand the logic of tying an app like Signal 
to Google, meaning the user is attached to Google at the hip. Especially 
when an app like Ring.cx operates without a browser or even a server, 
which seems far less risky.


Chris

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[johnyjukya]

On the Signal matter, just some personal paranoia Re: Signal and Google
Play Services:

I've been the subject of some rather intense and ongoing hacking (iPhone,
iPad, Android phone/tablet, PC, MacBook, cable modem connection, you name
it).

On the Android phone, I wiped it several times, and switched to Cyanogen,
but the "weirdness" kept coming back.  (Seeing stuff being recorded,
logged, queued to upload etc., when scrutinizing the filesystem with adb.)
 The issues often seemed to dance around Google Play Services.

The problem kept coming back, until last time, when I wiped the phone yet
again, but didn't install Google Play Store (and thus no Google Play
Services).  Things *appear* to be stable and secure now, with no
logging/recording/uploading weirdness showing up on the filesystem.

I'd like to install and use Signal for obvious reasons, but I honestly
don't trust Google Store/Services enough to take the risk.

(I have a psycho ex with some crooked cop buddies, so I half suspect some
law enforcement/government hook might be present in Google Play Services. 
Speculation of course.  But I'll personally stay clear for now.  I'm not
doing anything illegal, but with crooked cops it really doesn't matter
much.  :) )

I did get a copy of Signal from apkmirror, but I expect it might not work
without Play Services, and I'm not sure it'd be smart to implicitly trust
apkmirror, either.  So I'll keep my SmartPhone as a DumbPhone for now.

I was kind of excited to hear about Signal for Chromium, but disappointed
to find it relied upon you also having it installed on your smartphone.

Aand then there's this:
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/not-ok-google-chromium-voice-extension-pulled-after-spying-concerns/

Not cool, Google.

Cheers.  :)

> On 08/15/2016 08:49 PM, Ben Wika wrote:
>> Is F-Droid's Silence any better than Signal given it can run without
>> Google Play Store?
>
> The issue is not so much the Google Play Store, but the Google Play
> Services. Silence has been forked of Signal and works completely
> different now. In contrast to today's Signal, Silence only encrypts SMS
> while Signal only sends Signal messages via their server.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Torsten
>
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[Torsten Grote]

On 08/15/2016 08:49 PM, Ben Wika wrote:
> Is F-Droid's Silence any better than Signal given it can run without Google 
> Play Store?

The issue is not so much the Google Play Store, but the Google Play
Services. Silence has been forked of Signal and works completely
different now. In contrast to today's Signal, Silence only encrypts SMS
while Signal only sends Signal messages via their server.

Kind Regards,
Torsten

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[Ben Wika]

On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 07:55:08 UTC+10, Alex  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:43 AM, pixel fairy  wrote:
> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 3:22:30 PM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > 1. Install the Chromium browser in your appvm template - skip if you were 
> > already using it. Shut down the template VM.
> 
> 
> 
> I keep wondering how safe chromium browser is. do redhat or debian track 
> updates in time with google-chrome?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For this specific use case (Signal), there is currently no other option - 
> Chromium is the only way of getting Signal to work on Qubes. I only use 
> Chromium to host the Signal app and Firefox as my mainstream browser for 
> everything else.
> 
> 
> If you're wondering in general how well distributions track the Chromium OSS 
> project, I suspect the answer is "very well", but refer to distro-specific 
> release notes to check for yourself. Note that Google Chrome is the 
> Google-branded "stable" release of the Chromium OSS project, so asking 
> whether distributions track updates "in time with Chrome" doesn't make much 
> sense. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser) for more.

Is F-Droid's Silence any better than Signal given it can run without Google 
Play Store?

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: installing Signal on Qubes mini-HOWTO

[IX4 Svs]

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:43 AM, pixel fairy  wrote:

> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 3:22:30 PM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> ...
> > 1. Install the Chromium browser in your appvm template - skip if you
> were already using it. Shut down the template VM.
>
> I keep wondering how safe chromium browser is. do redhat or debian track
> updates in time with google-chrome?
>

For this specific use case (Signal), there is currently no other option -
Chromium is the only way of getting Signal to work on Qubes. I only use
Chromium to host the Signal app and Firefox as my mainstream browser for
everything else.

If you're wondering in general how well distributions track the Chromium
OSS project, I suspect the answer is "very well", but refer to
distro-specific release notes to check for yourself. Note that Google
Chrome is the Google-branded "stable" release of the Chromium OSS project,
so asking whether distributions track updates "in time with Chrome" doesn't
make much sense. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)
for more.

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