Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Jean Delvare  wrote:
> Hallo Holger,
> 
> On lun., 2016-11-07 at 12:00 +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
> > Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > > On Fri, 4 Nov 2016 19:54:54 +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
> > > > Where to find the new po files?
> > > > The de.po in git repo is still 100% translated.
> > > 
> > > Assuming you have gettext installed:
> > > 
> > > $ git pull
> > > $ ./configure
> > > $ make
> > > 
> > > Of course I can push untranslated files to the git repository, and push
> > > again when you provide the translation, but this doubles the commit
> > > history of the translation files, so I thought we could avoid it. But
> > > if it makes your work harder, I'll push the untranslated files now,
> > > sorry for the inconvenience.
> > 
> > I'm also sorry for this.
> > 
> > Since I am only a translator, but not a developer, I didn't know how to
> > update the po here locally.
> > 
> > "make updatepo" is common to me, but did not work with quilt.
> > 
> > I looked for a README.translators or something like that, to guide me how
> > to update po file. But I didn't find anything like that.
> 
> I understand. First of all, don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that you
> are providing translations for quilt even if you are not using it. It is
> very nice of you.
> 
> I just wrote a patch adding a target "updatepo" to the Makefile, which
> should do what you expect. I'll post it now, please tell me if that fits
> in your workflow.

Wow, adding such target would be cool! 
Thanks for taking care of this.

And, yes, the patch works fine.
I have implemented and tested it: it works like it should, and it fits
well into my workflow as translator :-)

Thank you


Holger



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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Martin Quinson]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 12:00:20PM +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > Hi Holger,
> > 
> > On Fri, 4 Nov 2016 19:54:54 +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
> > > Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > > > Holger, Sergey, do you think you will be able to provide a final
> > > > translation update for version 0.65 soon?
> > > 
> > > Where to find the new po files?
> > > The de.po in git repo is still 100% translated.
> > 
> > Assuming you have gettext installed:
> > 
> > $ git pull
> > $ ./configure
> > $ make
> > 
> > Of course I can push untranslated files to the git repository, and push
> > again when you provide the translation, but this doubles the commit
> > history of the translation files, so I thought we could avoid it. But
> > if it makes your work harder, I'll push the untranslated files now,
> > sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> I'm also sorry for this.
> 
> Since I am only a translator, but not a developer, I didn't know how to
> update the po here locally.
> 
> "make updatepo" is common to me, but did not work with quilt.
> 
> I looked for a README.translators or something like that, to guide me how
> to update po file. But I didn't find anything like that.

Another solution could be to use zanata.org to make the material 
available to the translators. I use it in another project and kinda
like it.

Bye, Mt.

-- 
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doing gets you academic sterility, and doing without learning is all too
often the way things are done in proprietary software.   -- Raph Levien 


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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Jean Delvare]

Hi Holger,

On Fri, 4 Nov 2016 19:54:54 +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > Holger, Sergey, do you think you will be able to provide a final
> > translation update for version 0.65 soon?
> 
> Where to find the new po files?
> The de.po in git repo is still 100% translated.

Assuming you have gettext installed:

$ git pull
$ ./configure
$ make

Of course I can push untranslated files to the git repository, and push
again when you provide the translation, but this doubles the commit
history of the translation files, so I thought we could avoid it. But
if it makes your work harder, I'll push the untranslated files now,
sorry for the inconvenience.

-- 
Jean Delvare
SUSE L3 Support

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Jean Delvare  wrote:
> Hi Yasushi-san,
> 
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 21:42:28 +0700, Yasushi SHOJI wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > >
> > > Exactly. So let's stick to my proposal. I don't want to delay the
> > > release any further to debate the exact wording of the description of
> > > an option which has stayed undocumented for a decade without anyone
> > > noticing or caring ;-)
> > 
> > right.
> > 
> > > I'm committing my patch with now, together with a French translation
> > > update. It would be great if we can get other translation updates
> > > quickly so that I can release quilt 0.65 this week.
> > 
> > here is an updated Japanese translation patch on top of 4b994004.
> 
> Applied, after removing a stray fuzzy marker. Thank you very much.
> 
> Holger, Sergey, do you think you will be able to provide a final
> translation update for version 0.65 soon?

Where to find the new po files?
The de.po in git repo is still 100% translated.


Holger


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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Jean Delvare]

Hi Yasushi-san,

On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 21:42:28 +0700, Yasushi SHOJI wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
> >
> > Exactly. So let's stick to my proposal. I don't want to delay the
> > release any further to debate the exact wording of the description of
> > an option which has stayed undocumented for a decade without anyone
> > noticing or caring ;-)
> 
> right.
> 
> > I'm committing my patch with now, together with a French translation
> > update. It would be great if we can get other translation updates
> > quickly so that I can release quilt 0.65 this week.
> 
> here is an updated Japanese translation patch on top of 4b994004.

Applied, after removing a stray fuzzy marker. Thank you very much.

Holger, Sergey, do you think you will be able to provide a final
translation update for version 0.65 soon?

-- 
Jean Delvare
SUSE L3 Support

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Yasushi SHOJI]

Jean,

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
>
> Exactly. So let's stick to my proposal. I don't want to delay the
> release any further to debate the exact wording of the description of
> an option which has stayed undocumented for a decade without anyone
> noticing or caring ;-)

right.

> I'm committing my patch with now, together with a French translation
> update. It would be great if we can get other translation updates
> quickly so that I can release quilt 0.65 this week.

here is an updated Japanese translation patch on top of 4b994004.

Thanks,
-- 
   yashi


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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Jean Delvare]

Hi Andreas, Yasushi,

On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 19:03:58 +0100, Andreas Grünbacher wrote:
> 2016-11-02 17:26 GMT+01:00 Yasushi SHOJI :
> > On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > [...]
> >> --charset
> >> Specify a particular message encoding on systems which don't use
> >> UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15. This character encoding must match the one
> >> used in the patches.
> >>
> >> Are we good with this?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > What I'm not sure is that UTF-8 is an encoding but used at "charset".
> > When "UTF-8" is used in the content-type header line, does it mean
> > the message used UCS, is the "charset" header used for
> > encodings, or is charset and encoding interchangeable here?

I am well aware that character encoding and character set are different
things. Technically UTF-8 is a character encoding, however it implies a
character set (UCS.) Conversely, ISO-8859-15 is a character set, but in
this context it implies an encoding (or actually a lack thereof.) In
practice both terms appear as interchangeable, and "charset" seems to be
a commonly accepted shortcut to designate them. For example in HTML the
Content-Type header uses a "charset" attribute to designate the
character set and encoding. Exactly as this option is doing.

> > If we align the name and the description:
> >
> > Specify a character set for the messages on systems which don't use
> > UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15.  The specified character set must match...
> >
> > But I like the original better. ;-)

And so do I. We could go with "Specify a character set and encoding..."
but I prefer the option description to be concise and clear even if not
technically perfect. The user can still search for all of "character",
"set", "encoding" and "charset" and find this option in all cases.

> In any case, we should at least go with either "character encoding" or
> "character set" in both sentences. The parameter defines both the
> character set and the encoding.

Exactly. So let's stick to my proposal. I don't want to delay the
release any further to debate the exact wording of the description of
an option which has stayed undocumented for a decade without anyone
noticing or caring ;-)

I'm committing my patch with now, together with a French translation
update. It would be great if we can get other translation updates
quickly so that I can release quilt 0.65 this week.

Thanks,
-- 
Jean Delvare
SUSE L3 Support

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Andreas Grünbacher]

Yashi,

2016-11-02 17:26 GMT+01:00 Yasushi SHOJI :
> Hi Jean,
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
> [...]
>> --charset
>> Specify a particular message encoding on systems which don't use
>> UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15. This character encoding must match the one
>> used in the patches.
>>
>> Are we good with this?
>
> Yes.
>
> What I'm not sure is that UTF-8 is an encoding but used at "charset".
> When "UTF-8" is used in the content-type header line, does it mean
> the message used UCS, is the "charset" header used for
> encodings, or is charset and encoding interchangeable here?
>
> If we align the name and the description:
>
> Specify a character set for the messages on systems which don't use
> UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15.  The specified character set must match...
>
> But I like the original better. ;-)

In any case, we should at least go with either "character encoding" or
"character set" in both sentences. The parameter defines both the
character set and the encoding.

Thanks,
Andreas

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Yasushi SHOJI]

Hi Jean,

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
[...]
> --charset
> Specify a particular message encoding on systems which don't use
> UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15. This character encoding must match the one
> used in the patches.
>
> Are we good with this?

Yes.

What I'm not sure is that UTF-8 is an encoding but used at "charset".
When "UTF-8" is used in the content-type header line, does it mean
the message used UCS, is the "charset" header used for
encodings, or is charset and encoding interchangeable here?

If we align the name and the description:

Specify a character set for the messages on systems which don't use
UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15.  The specified character set must match...

But I like the original better. ;-)

Anyway here is a Japanese translated string:

UTF-8 や ISO-8859-15 を使っていないシステムで、メールの文字集合を指定。
指定した文字集合は、パッチと一致している必要がある。

I'll send it in a patch form once we decide the wording: charset vs
encoding.
-- 
yashi
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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Jean Delvare]

Hallo Andreas, Yasushi,

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 16:04:51 +0200, Andreas Grünbacher wrote:
> 2016-10-24 15:45 GMT+02:00 Jean Delvare :
> > My understanding is that --charset should match what is used in the
> > patches themselves. The value is used for the Content-Type header of
> > each message and there is no conversion done.
> 
> Indeed. On systems using UTF-8, that header should automatically be
> set appropriately; on other systems, the ISO-8859-15 character set is
> assumed.
> 
> Headers are supposed to be 7-bit only, so we need to encode recipient
> addresses with special characters. (This still doesn't catch special
> characters in the subject, but that doesn't seem to be a very bit
> problem at least.)
> 
> > It is also passed to the edmail helper script, which uses it to encode
> > the recipient names. But that is an internal detail which I don't think
> > the user needs to know. In fact I don't know why edmail needs to know
> > the charset used for the body, if the recipient fields end up being
> > encoded anyway it might as well always use UTF-8? But that's a somewhat
> > different topic, and I'm not familiar with email encoding so I could be
> > plain wrong.
> 
> The Content-Type header still needs to be added to messages.

But this is done by the mail command script directly, not the edmail
helper script.

> > Andreas, what would be a good description for the mail --charset
> > option? "Specify the character encoding of the patches."?
> 
> The --charset option allows to specify a particular message encoding
> on systems which don't use UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15.

So...

--charset
Specify a particular message encoding on systems which don't use
UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15. This character encoding must match the one
used in the patches.

Are we good with this?

Thanks,
-- 
Jean Delvare
SUSE L3 Support

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Andreas Grünbacher]

2016-10-24 15:45 GMT+02:00 Jean Delvare :
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 18:56:20 +0900, Yasushi SHOJI wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
>> > I added this short help text after noticing that the option was not
>> > documented at all. But the truth is, I don't use the quilt mail
>> > command, and I don't really know what the option does. It was an
>> > uneducated guess. You certainly know better. Would you mind providing a
>> > patch to describe the option properly? I'd be happy to apply it before
>> > releasing v0.65.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't use it neither. My comment was from 15 min. reading
>> and grepping of quilt source code and document with "charset" right before
>> writing translation.
>>
>> It seems the command and the option was added by the commit 0ae231e
>> by Andreas Gruenbacher  in 2005!
>
> That's what I found too, and the option has never been documented.
>
>> If we don't get from anyone using the command / option in a short while,
>> i'll try to write up a few lines.  Hoping someone beat me to it.
>
> My understanding is that --charset should match what is used in the
> patches themselves. The value is used for the Content-Type header of
> each message and there is no conversion done.

Indeed. On systems using UTF-8, that header should automatically be
set appropriately; on other systems, the ISO-8859-15 character set is
assumed.

Headers are supposed to be 7-bit only, so we need to encode recipient
addresses with special characters. (This still doesn't catch special
characters in the subject, but that doesn't seem to be a very bit
problem at least.)

> It is also passed to the edmail helper script, which uses it to encode
> the recipient names. But that is an internal detail which I don't think
> the user needs to know. In fact I don't know why edmail needs to know
> the charset used for the body, if the recipient fields end up being
> encoded anyway it might as well always use UTF-8? But that's a somewhat
> different topic, and I'm not familiar with email encoding so I could be
> plain wrong.

The Content-Type header still needs to be added to messages.

> Andreas, what would be a good description for the mail --charset
> option? "Specify the character encoding of the patches."?

The --charset option allows to specify a particular message encoding
on systems which don't use UTF-8 or ISO-8859-15.

Thanks,
Andreas

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Jean Delvare]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 18:56:20 +0900, Yasushi SHOJI wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > I added this short help text after noticing that the option was not
> > documented at all. But the truth is, I don't use the quilt mail
> > command, and I don't really know what the option does. It was an
> > uneducated guess. You certainly know better. Would you mind providing a
> > patch to describe the option properly? I'd be happy to apply it before
> > releasing v0.65.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't use it neither. My comment was from 15 min. reading
> and grepping of quilt source code and document with "charset" right before
> writing translation.
> 
> It seems the command and the option was added by the commit 0ae231e
> by Andreas Gruenbacher  in 2005!

That's what I found too, and the option has never been documented.

> If we don't get from anyone using the command / option in a short while,
> i'll try to write up a few lines.  Hoping someone beat me to it.

My understanding is that --charset should match what is used in the
patches themselves. The value is used for the Content-Type header of
each message and there is no conversion done.

It is also passed to the edmail helper script, which uses it to encode
the recipient names. But that is an internal detail which I don't think
the user needs to know. In fact I don't know why edmail needs to know
the charset used for the body, if the recipient fields end up being
encoded anyway it might as well always use UTF-8? But that's a somewhat
different topic, and I'm not familiar with email encoding so I could be
plain wrong.

Andreas, what would be a good description for the mail --charset
option? "Specify the character encoding of the patches."?

Thanks,
-- 
Jean Delvare
SUSE L3 Support

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Jean Delvare]

Hallo Holger,

On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 23:38:27 +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Jean Delvare  wrote:
> > I have updated the French translation. It would be nice if all other
> > translations could be updated too. It shouldn't take long, there's only
> > one new error message and the help text of one command which was
> > updated with 2 new options.
> 
> Attached is the updated german de.po file.

Applied, thanks.

-- 
Jean Delvare
SUSE L3 Support

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Re: [Quilt-dev] Quilt 0.65 coming soon

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Jean Delvare  wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> It's been 20 months since quilt 0.64 was released, and there has been
> quite a few fixes and improvements since then (59 commits) so I think
> I'll release a new version by the end of the month.
> 
> I have updated the French translation. It would be nice if all other
> translations could be updated too. It shouldn't take long, there's only
> one new error message and the help text of one command which was
> updated with 2 new options.

Attached is the updated german de.po file.


Cheers
Holger


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