Re: [R] R - Wikis and R-core
Hello Martin and others, I am happy with this decision. I'll look a little bit at this next week. Best, Philippe Grosjean We've had a small review time within R-core on this topic, amd would like to state the following: -- The R-core team welcomes proposals to develop an R-wiki. - We would consider linking a very small number of Wikis (ideally one) from www.r-project.org and offering an address in the r-project.org domain (such as 'wiki.r-project.org'). - The core team has no support time to offer, and would be looking for a medium-term commitment from a maintainer team for the Wiki(s). - Suggestions for the R documentation would best be filtered through the Wiki maintainers, who could e.g. supply suggested patches during the alpha phase of an R release. -- Our main concerns have been about ensuring the quality of such extra documentation projects, hence the 2nd point above. Several of our more general, not mainly R, experiences have been of outdated web pages which are continued to be used as reference when their advice has long been superseded. I think it's very important to try ensuring that this won't happen with an R Wiki. Martin Maechler, ETH Zurich PhGr == Philippe Grosjean [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:00:44 +0100 (CET) writes: PhGr Hello all, Sorry for not taking part of this PhGr discussion earlier, and for not answering Detlef PhGr Steuer, Martin Maechler, and others that asked more PhGr direct questions to me. I am away from my office and PhGr my computer until the 16th of January. PhGr Just quick and partial answers: 1) I did not know PhGr about Hamburg RWiki. But I would be happy to merge PhGr both in one or the other way, as Detlef suggests it. PhGr 2) I choose DokuWiki as the best engine after a PhGr careful comparison of various Wiki engines. It is the PhGr best one, as far as I know, for the purpose of PhGr writting software documentation and similar PhGr pages. There is an extensive and clearly presented PhGr comparison of many Wikki engines at: PhGr http://www.wikimatrix.org/. PhGr 3) I started to change DokuWiki (addition of various PhGr plugins, addition of R code syntax coloring with PhGr GESHI, etc...). So, it goes well beyond all current PhGr Wiki engines regarding its suitability to present R PhGr stuff. PhGr 4) The reasons I did this is because I think the Wiki PhGr format could be of a wider use. I plan to change a PhGr little bit the DokuWiki syntax, so that it works with PhGr plain .R code files (Wiki part is simply embedded in PhGr commented lines, and the rest is recognized and PhGr formatted as R code by the Wiki engine). That way, the PhGr same Wiki document can either rendered by the Wiki PhGr engine for a nice presentation, or sourced in R PhGr indifferently. PhGr 5) My last idea is to add a Rpad engine to the Wiki, PhGr so that one could play with R code presented in the PhGr Wiki pages and see the effects of changes directly in PhGr the Wiki. PhGr 6) Regarding the content of the Wiki, it should be PhGr nice to propose to the authors of various existing PhGr document to put them in a Wiki form. Something like PhGr Statistics with R PhGr (http://zoonek2.free.fr/UNIX/48_R/all.html) is written PhGr in a way that stimulates additions to pages in PhGr perpetual construction, if it was presented in a Wiki PhGr form. It is licensed as Creative Commons PhGr Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 license, that PhGr is, exactly the same one as DokuWiki that I choose for PhGr R Wiki. Of course, I plan to ask its author to do so PhGr before putting its hundreds of very interesting pages PhGr on the Wiki... I think it is vital to have already PhGr something in the Wiki, in order to attract enough PhGr readers, and then enough contributors! PhGr 7) Regarding spamming and vandalism, DokuWiki allows PhGr to manage rights and users, even individually for PhGr pages. I think it would be fine to lock pages that PhGr reach a certain maturity (read-only / editable by PhGr selected users only) , with link to a discussion page PhGr which remaining freely accessible at the bottom of PhGr locked pages. PhGr 8) I would be happy to contribute this work to the R PhGr foundation in one way or the other to integrate it in PhGr http://www.r-project.org or PhGr http://cran.r-project.org. But if it is fine keeping PhGr it in http://www.sciviews.org as well, it is also fine PhGr for me. PhGr I suggest that all interested people drop a little PhGr email to my mailbox. I'll recontact
Re: [R] R - Wikis and R-core
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Martin and others, I am happy with this decision. I'll look a little bit at this next week. Best, Philippe Grosjean We've had a small review time within R-core on this topic, amd would like to state the following: -- The R-core team welcomes proposals to develop an R-wiki. - We would consider linking a very small number of Wikis (ideally one) from www.r-project.org and offering an address in the r-project.org domain (such as 'wiki.r-project.org'). - The core team has no support time to offer, and would be looking for a medium-term commitment from a maintainer team for the Wiki(s). - Suggestions for the R documentation would best be filtered through the Wiki maintainers, who could e.g. supply suggested patches during the alpha phase of an R release. -- Our main concerns have been about ensuring the quality of such extra documentation projects, hence the 2nd point above. Several of our more general, not mainly R, experiences have been of outdated web pages which are continued to be used as reference when their advice has long been superseded. I think it's very important to try ensuring that this won't happen with an R Wiki. [Tried to send the following a few days ago, but had a problem with my connection:] What about adding a best before date on Wiki pages and let moderators extend such dates (by a simple click). If the date for a page is not updated, there will be a warning on that page telling the reader that the content might not be fully valid. MediaWiki is a good solution because there you can write equations in LaTeX, which are generated as Math-ML(?) and/or bitmap images. This feature might be in other wiki system too, I don't know. That's my $0.02 Henrik Martin Maechler, ETH Zurich PhGr == Philippe Grosjean [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:00:44 +0100 (CET) writes: PhGr Hello all, Sorry for not taking part of this PhGr discussion earlier, and for not answering Detlef PhGr Steuer, Martin Maechler, and others that asked more PhGr direct questions to me. I am away from my office and PhGr my computer until the 16th of January. PhGr Just quick and partial answers: 1) I did not know PhGr about Hamburg RWiki. But I would be happy to merge PhGr both in one or the other way, as Detlef suggests it. PhGr 2) I choose DokuWiki as the best engine after a PhGr careful comparison of various Wiki engines. It is the PhGr best one, as far as I know, for the purpose of PhGr writting software documentation and similar PhGr pages. There is an extensive and clearly presented PhGr comparison of many Wikki engines at: PhGr http://www.wikimatrix.org/. PhGr 3) I started to change DokuWiki (addition of various PhGr plugins, addition of R code syntax coloring with PhGr GESHI, etc...). So, it goes well beyond all current PhGr Wiki engines regarding its suitability to present R PhGr stuff. PhGr 4) The reasons I did this is because I think the Wiki PhGr format could be of a wider use. I plan to change a PhGr little bit the DokuWiki syntax, so that it works with PhGr plain .R code files (Wiki part is simply embedded in PhGr commented lines, and the rest is recognized and PhGr formatted as R code by the Wiki engine). That way, the PhGr same Wiki document can either rendered by the Wiki PhGr engine for a nice presentation, or sourced in R PhGr indifferently. PhGr 5) My last idea is to add a Rpad engine to the Wiki, PhGr so that one could play with R code presented in the PhGr Wiki pages and see the effects of changes directly in PhGr the Wiki. PhGr 6) Regarding the content of the Wiki, it should be PhGr nice to propose to the authors of various existing PhGr document to put them in a Wiki form. Something like PhGr Statistics with R PhGr (http://zoonek2.free.fr/UNIX/48_R/all.html) is written PhGr in a way that stimulates additions to pages in PhGr perpetual construction, if it was presented in a Wiki PhGr form. It is licensed as Creative Commons PhGr Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 license, that PhGr is, exactly the same one as DokuWiki that I choose for PhGr R Wiki. Of course, I plan to ask its author to do so PhGr before putting its hundreds of very interesting pages PhGr on the Wiki... I think it is vital to have already PhGr something in the Wiki, in order to attract enough PhGr readers, and then enough contributors! PhGr 7) Regarding spamming and vandalism, DokuWiki allows PhGr to manage rights and users, even individually for PhGr pages. I think it would be fine to lock pages that PhGr reach a certain maturity (read-only / editable by PhGr selected users only) , with link to a
[R] R - Wikis and R-core
We've had a small review time within R-core on this topic, amd would like to state the following: -- The R-core team welcomes proposals to develop an R-wiki. - We would consider linking a very small number of Wikis (ideally one) from www.r-project.org and offering an address in the r-project.org domain (such as 'wiki.r-project.org'). - The core team has no support time to offer, and would be looking for a medium-term commitment from a maintainer team for the Wiki(s). - Suggestions for the R documentation would best be filtered through the Wiki maintainers, who could e.g. supply suggested patches during the alpha phase of an R release. -- Our main concerns have been about ensuring the quality of such extra documentation projects, hence the 2nd point above. Several of our more general, not mainly R, experiences have been of outdated web pages which are continued to be used as reference when their advice has long been superseded. I think it's very important to try ensuring that this won't happen with an R Wiki. Martin Maechler, ETH Zurich PhGr == Philippe Grosjean [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:00:44 +0100 (CET) writes: PhGr Hello all, Sorry for not taking part of this PhGr discussion earlier, and for not answering Detlef PhGr Steuer, Martin Maechler, and others that asked more PhGr direct questions to me. I am away from my office and PhGr my computer until the 16th of January. PhGr Just quick and partial answers: 1) I did not know PhGr about Hamburg RWiki. But I would be happy to merge PhGr both in one or the other way, as Detlef suggests it. PhGr 2) I choose DokuWiki as the best engine after a PhGr careful comparison of various Wiki engines. It is the PhGr best one, as far as I know, for the purpose of PhGr writting software documentation and similar PhGr pages. There is an extensive and clearly presented PhGr comparison of many Wikki engines at: PhGr http://www.wikimatrix.org/. PhGr 3) I started to change DokuWiki (addition of various PhGr plugins, addition of R code syntax coloring with PhGr GESHI, etc...). So, it goes well beyond all current PhGr Wiki engines regarding its suitability to present R PhGr stuff. PhGr 4) The reasons I did this is because I think the Wiki PhGr format could be of a wider use. I plan to change a PhGr little bit the DokuWiki syntax, so that it works with PhGr plain .R code files (Wiki part is simply embedded in PhGr commented lines, and the rest is recognized and PhGr formatted as R code by the Wiki engine). That way, the PhGr same Wiki document can either rendered by the Wiki PhGr engine for a nice presentation, or sourced in R PhGr indifferently. PhGr 5) My last idea is to add a Rpad engine to the Wiki, PhGr so that one could play with R code presented in the PhGr Wiki pages and see the effects of changes directly in PhGr the Wiki. PhGr 6) Regarding the content of the Wiki, it should be PhGr nice to propose to the authors of various existing PhGr document to put them in a Wiki form. Something like PhGr Statistics with R PhGr (http://zoonek2.free.fr/UNIX/48_R/all.html) is written PhGr in a way that stimulates additions to pages in PhGr perpetual construction, if it was presented in a Wiki PhGr form. It is licensed as Creative Commons PhGr Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 license, that PhGr is, exactly the same one as DokuWiki that I choose for PhGr R Wiki. Of course, I plan to ask its author to do so PhGr before putting its hundreds of very interesting pages PhGr on the Wiki... I think it is vital to have already PhGr something in the Wiki, in order to attract enough PhGr readers, and then enough contributors! PhGr 7) Regarding spamming and vandalism, DokuWiki allows PhGr to manage rights and users, even individually for PhGr pages. I think it would be fine to lock pages that PhGr reach a certain maturity (read-only / editable by PhGr selected users only) , with link to a discussion page PhGr which remaining freely accessible at the bottom of PhGr locked pages. PhGr 8) I would be happy to contribute this work to the R PhGr foundation in one way or the other to integrate it in PhGr http://www.r-project.org or PhGr http://cran.r-project.org. But if it is fine keeping PhGr it in http://www.sciviews.org as well, it is also fine PhGr for me. PhGr I suggest that all interested people drop a little PhGr email to my mailbox. I'll recontact you when I will PhGr be back to my office to work on a more elaborate PhGr solution altogether when I am back at my office. PhGr Best, PhGr Philippe Grosjean PhGr
Re: [R] Wikis for R
Frank uses the term hierarchical keyword organization which I agree is a good way to organize a system designed to help users. In fact, this is one reason why I like the R graphics gallery which allows one to quickly find a particular type of plot based on keyword, examine the plot to see if it's close to what's desired, and then get the detailed code to examine or modify for one's own specific purpose. It's an example of going from general concept to specific details. R's HTML help pages already have a keyword system but it takes you to the specifics too quickly. I'd recommend revising the current keyword system in the help pages (or adding to it) to create what Frank calls data manipulation examples gallery. In other words a code gallery that users could browse quickly and simply copy and paste code from it to their application. Think of the keywords as different How to topics (e.g. how to create a data frame, how to reshape data, etc.). ** I think this sort of thing would save time for users of all levels.** New users could find code quickly WITHOUT submitting a request to R-HELP email list. Advanced, experts, and gurus would no longer have to respond to such requests for the umpteenth time. Think of this as the examples that did not make it to the help files. Because it's a wiki folks could add to it the examples that are truly helpful. Creating such a system requires 3 steps (at a very high level): 1) ** Develop a hierarchical keyword system ** Combine the current keyword system (http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/R/doc/html/search/SearchEngine.html) with something more like the left-hand frame of the function finder (http://biostat.mc.vanderbilt.edu/s/finder/finder.html). Essentially a list of keywords organized by how to do X in R. Users could browse this list and click on a how to topic to get to more specific keyworks or see the code gallery for that particular keyword. Once this list of keywords gets generated then it would would remain mostly static over time. If changes are required then have the site maintainer add the word, but the keyword list is not open to public revision. 2) ** Add code as content for each keyword. ** Without quality and quantity of content, this proposed system is not worth much. No one will use it without content -- I don't care what fancy tool we use to create or manage such a thing. I suspect that much of the code to start this gallery could come from R tips (http://www.ku.edu/~pauljohn/R/Rtips.html). After amassing a good size collection of code, allow the public to start adding to the code (but not the keywords identified in #1 above.) 3) ** Link 1 and 2 above, which are on the wiki, with the existing help files that get installed with R **. So when a user chooses HTML Help from the Help menu (in the windows version of R, for example) he/she would see an additional clickable link that says something like How To. Clicking on this would take the user to the list of keywords for the code gallery on the online wiki. This is their starting point. From here the user would click on appropriate keywords to browse the code gallery. The code itself could be clickable to bring up the very detailed help pages much like the R Graphics Gallery does (for example clicking on the green color rnorm in the first graph in the Graphics Gallery takes me to the following hyperlinked help page: http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques/help/index.html?pack=statsalias=rnormfun=Normal.html). I'm wondering how much of the above could be done without requiring much work from the R CORE team? I'd recommend a small group of individuals (10 - 20 or so) to start getting the content together since that may be the most time intensive part. (You can't expect 1 person to do it all, and 1000's of people won't make much progress.) I can lend a few hours per month if there was a cadre of dedicated individuals who are passionate about making this happen. However, I have very few programming skills, almost none outside of R, of which I'm a relative beginner. This is the vision I have for the wiki. What do others think? ~Nick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Frank E Harrell Jr Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:05 AM To: Detlef Steuer Cc: r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [R] Wikis for R Detlef Steuer wrote: On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:23:04 -0200 Fernando Henrique Ferraz P. da Rosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Maechler writes: If you go to the bottom of that wikipedia page, you see that there is an R Wiki -- and has been for several years now (!) at a Hamburg (De) university. http://fawn.unibw-hamburg.de/cgi-bin/Rwiki.pl?RwikiHome (...) So, are you sure that another R Wiki is desirable, rather than have people who believe in Wiki's for R use the existing one(s)? I believe the main challenge will (similar as for an R-beginners mailing list) to have well-qualified editors to be willing
Re: [R] Wikis for R
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Detlef Steuer wrote: ... Back to operating wikis:The wiki spamming is a serious problem, especially because I HATE to login to read or edit anything. So the choice is: take the wiki as seriously as work and have a look every other day to remove the spam (or better: form a group of volunteers). That hurts or at least is no fun. Or put restrictions on it. That hurts even more. Perhaps I do not understand Philippe`s loggable. What does a logfile with IPs help? The spammers are strangers selling viagra; I don`t want to find them :-) Sometimes you can mark the spammer's IP's as spammers and then ban editing by them. For my own UseMod wiki, I avoid spam by rejecting edits that change more than 3 URLS. But this is getting off of the R help topic. To sum it up:There is a very simple way to proceed:Philippe uses his Docuwiki install as official, _general_ Rwiki and I close down mine. The beginners will find their niche in there, if there is a real demand. I wouldn´t mind to give up my wiki, because I have to admit it failed to achieve what I would have liked. I like wikis too, and contributed a few pages to your wiki. The low use-rate and high wiki spamming content makes it not a place I frequent. So, Philippe, if you like, you can take over. I would replace my wiki with a notice where to find yours and the community gets a second chance :-) http://fawn.unibw-hamburg.de/cgi-bin/Rwiki.pl does have some useful content. Maybe it would be good to wade through it and figure out how to patch the standard R documentation to include those contributions. An advantage of a wiki is the low barrier to adding correctable documentation. The email list also provides low-barrier-to-entry documentation, and its success demonstrates the clear need for additional documentation. Considering that, maybe there would be a benefit in rolling references to good email threads into the documentation in some sort of an automatic method. Perhaps if an email question leads to a clarification or good example of a feature, someone could post a message to the thread that tags it for inclusion by reference to relevant documentation in the next release cycle. If this wishful thinking would come to pass, then the standard documentation could point people towards using the mail archive in a more directly useful manner, and we'd retain the peer-reviewed answer quality of the email list. Dave -- Dr. David Forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED](804)684-7900w [EMAIL PROTECTED] (804)642-0662h http://maplepark.com/~drf5n/ __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] Wikis for R
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:23:04 -0200 Fernando Henrique Ferraz P. da Rosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Maechler writes: If you go to the bottom of that wikipedia page, you see that there is an R Wiki -- and has been for several years now (!) at a Hamburg (De) university. http://fawn.unibw-hamburg.de/cgi-bin/Rwiki.pl?RwikiHome (...) So, are you sure that another R Wiki is desirable, rather than have people who believe in Wiki's for R use the existing one(s)? I believe the main challenge will (similar as for an R-beginners mailing list) to have well-qualified editors to be willing to review and amend what others have written. I´ve tried to colaborate on the R Wiki hosted by the Hamburg university but the Wiki would get regularlly vandalized by some spam bot, and then I'd have to manually keep reverting it several times. Also the wiki engine used by this wiki is very rudimentary. I think the DokuWiki engine, which is used by Philippe Grosjean is more promising as a workhorse for an 'official' R-wiki. What Fernando says is mostly true. I installed the UseMod Wiki after talking to some of us as a test balloon. The engine was chosen according to simplistic installation and a just-enough feature set. Perhaps that was a wrong decision. I`m one of the believers in wikis, but mine over here did not fly. Probably this and any wiki needs a critical mass for visitors beginning to return and collaborate and therein the Hamburg wiki failed. (One day I wanted to take down the wiki for apparently having no users, but just then someone gave some feedback) As Frank Harrel pointed out, this may be because R-help is just too helpful. In contrast to Frank I don`t think we should abandon e-mail because of its success. The mailing list is, in my opinion, the single biggest plus R has above all competition. The wiki should provide something complementary to r-help. Btw. those who do not search for information in the mailing list archives or on CRAN before asking simple questions won't do so in a wiki or in a bulletin board system. (I find those simply unusable. Am I getting old? I want to edit using my favourite editor, not in some browser window.) A central place for example code was my intention, when opening the wiki back then. Back to operating wikis: The wiki spamming is a serious problem, especially because I HATE to login to read or edit anything. So the choice is: take the wiki as seriously as work and have a look every other day to remove the spam (or better: form a group of volunteers). That hurts or at least is no fun. Or put restrictions on it. That hurts even more. Perhaps I do not understand Philippe`s loggable. What does a logfile with IPs help? The spammers are strangers selling viagra; I don`t want to find them :-) To sum it up: There is a very simple way to proceed: Philippe uses his Docuwiki install as official, _general_ Rwiki and I close down mine. The beginners will find their niche in there, if there is a real demand. I wouldn´t mind to give up my wiki, because I have to admit it failed to achieve what I would have liked. So, Philippe, if you like, you can take over. I would replace my wiki with a notice where to find yours and the community gets a second chance :-) Detlef I think that the title could be perhaps changed to Rwiki and the contents currently hosted on the Hamburg wiki 'transfered' to the new location, if the current mantainers of the Hamburg Wiki and Philippe Grosjean agree (I´m cc-ing this msg to them). This could emerge then as official or semi-oficial R-wiki, to be linked to from the R-project home. -- Though this be randomness, yet there is structure in't. Rosa, F.H.F.P Instituto de Matemática e Estatística Universidade de São Paulo Fernando Henrique Ferraz P. da Rosa http://www.feferraz.net __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] Wikis for R
Detlef Steuer wrote: On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:23:04 -0200 Fernando Henrique Ferraz P. da Rosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Maechler writes: If you go to the bottom of that wikipedia page, you see that there is an R Wiki -- and has been for several years now (!) at a Hamburg (De) university. http://fawn.unibw-hamburg.de/cgi-bin/Rwiki.pl?RwikiHome (...) So, are you sure that another R Wiki is desirable, rather than have people who believe in Wiki's for R use the existing one(s)? I believe the main challenge will (similar as for an R-beginners mailing list) to have well-qualified editors to be willing to review and amend what others have written. I´ve tried to colaborate on the R Wiki hosted by the Hamburg university but the Wiki would get regularlly vandalized by some spam bot, and then I'd have to manually keep reverting it several times. Also the wiki engine used by this wiki is very rudimentary. I think the DokuWiki engine, which is used by Philippe Grosjean is more promising as a workhorse for an 'official' R-wiki. What Fernando says is mostly true. I installed the UseMod Wiki after talking to some of us as a test balloon. The engine was chosen according to simplistic installation and a just-enough feature set. Perhaps that was a wrong decision. I`m one of the believers in wikis, but mine over here did not fly. Probably this and any wiki needs a critical mass for visitors beginning to return and collaborate and therein the Hamburg wiki failed. (One day I wanted to take down the wiki for apparently having no users, but just then someone gave some feedback) As Frank Harrel pointed out, this may be because R-help is just too helpful. In contrast to Frank I don`t think we should abandon e-mail because of its success. The mailing list is, in my opinion, the single biggest plus R has above all competition. The wiki should provide something complementary to r-help. Btw. those who do not search for information in the mailing list archives or on CRAN before asking simple questions won't do so in a wiki or in a bulletin board system. (I find those simply unusable. Am I getting old? I want to edit using my favourite editor, not in some browser window.) A central place for example code was my intention, when opening the wiki back then. Back to operating wikis: The wiki spamming is a serious problem, especially because I HATE to login to read or edit anything. So the choice is: take the wiki as seriously as work and have a look every other day to remove the spam (or better: form a group of volunteers). That hurts or at least is no fun. Or put restrictions on it. That hurts even more. Perhaps I do not understand Philippe`s loggable. What does a logfile with IPs help? The spammers are strangers selling viagra; I don`t want to find them :-) To sum it up: There is a very simple way to proceed: Philippe uses his Docuwiki install as official, _general_ Rwiki and I close down mine. The beginners will find their niche in there, if there is a real demand. I wouldn´t mind to give up my wiki, because I have to admit it failed to achieve what I would have liked. So, Philippe, if you like, you can take over. I would replace my wiki with a notice where to find yours and the community gets a second chance :-) Detlef The current e-mail system places a low burden on users if they follow basic posting rules. The burden is too low and users still do not search for past answers and we also get dozens of separate messages on a single topic (e.g., ylim on barplots). As long as everyone allows this, a wiki or discussion board will not work. We need to rethink the e-mail system in my view to create motivations for approaches with true memories and hierarchical keyword organization instead of using the apparent memory-less system. This should be thought through to include the new graphics gallery and a data manipulation examples gallery, and other things, and needs to be launched from www.r-project.org IMHO. Frank I think that the title could be perhaps changed to Rwiki and the contents currently hosted on the Hamburg wiki 'transfered' to the new location, if the current mantainers of the Hamburg Wiki and Philippe Grosjean agree (I´m cc-ing this msg to them). This could emerge then as official or semi-oficial R-wiki, to be linked to from the R-project home. -- Though this be randomness, yet there is structure in't. Rosa, F.H.F.P Instituto de Matemática e Estatística Universidade de São Paulo Fernando Henrique Ferraz P. da Rosa http://www.feferraz.net __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html -- Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine
Re: [R] Wikis for R
On 1/7/06, Frank E Harrell Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current e-mail system places a low burden on users if they follow basic posting rules. The burden is too low and users still do not search for past answers and we also get dozens of separate messages on a single topic (e.g., ylim on barplots). As long as everyone allows this, a wiki or discussion board will not work. We need to rethink the e-mail One technical comment here. The new R wiki at http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki. appears to support RSS so one does not have to have the burden of actually visiting the wiki to read its content. If you regularly check an RSS reader in the same way that you regularly check email then the content will come to you just you as it does in email.In fact there are even readers that come email and RSS together so the difference is transparent. I personally use SharpReader on Windows XP. If one simply drags the url of the wiki to the SharpReader address bar then all changed and new pages display and if one wants to keep it as a subscription one just clicks the Subscribe button. amphetadesk is another popular RSS reader. __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] Wikis for R
PhGr == Philippe Grosjean [EMAIL PROTECTED]
on Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:35:17 +0100 writes:
PhGr David Forrest wrote:
[...]
Any volunteers?
PhGr Yes, me (well, partly...)! Here is what I propose: this is a very
PhGr lengthy thread in R-Help, with many interesting ideas and
suggestions. I
PhGr fear that, as it happens too often, those nice ideas will be lost
PhGr because of the support used: email! By nature, emails are read and
then
PhGr deleted (well, there is the R-Help archive, but anyway, threads in a
PhGr mailing list is not at all the best tool to make collaborative
documents
PhGr like those tutorials and co).
PhGr I just cooked a little Wiki *dedicated to R beginners* (meaning they
can
PhGr contribute too, and are very welcome to discuss their problems
-possibly
PhGr trivial for others-). It is available at
PhGr http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki.
I you google for R Wiki you get (on the first page of hits)
- the japanase R Wiki RjpWiki [which has been in existence for
quite a while, but that's all I know about it].
- the Wikipedia entry for R
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_programming_language
(which is quite good, but probably could benefit from more volunteer input)
If you go to the bottom of that wikipedia page,
you see that there is an R Wiki -- and has been for several
years now (!) at a Hamburg (De) university.
http://fawn.unibw-hamburg.de/cgi-bin/Rwiki.pl?RwikiHome
- Simon Urbanek's R Wiki mainly (but not exclusively) aimed at
R for Mac OSX.
So, are you sure that another R Wiki is desirable, rather than
have people who believe in Wiki's for R use the existing
one(s)? I believe the main challenge will (similar as for
an R-beginners mailing list) to have well-qualified editors
to be willing to review and amend what others have written.
I think it's an experiment that should be tried; but it has been
started already a while ago, and instead of restarting it, one
should try to agree on some cooperation with existing (Wiki)
approaches.
Hopefully some agreement on this is reached quickly, and we
could also add a link to the R wiki {or maybe several ones?}
from www.r-project.org.
Martin Maechler, ETH Zurich
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Re: [R] Wikis for R
Martin Maechler writes: If you go to the bottom of that wikipedia page, you see that there is an R Wiki -- and has been for several years now (!) at a Hamburg (De) university. http://fawn.unibw-hamburg.de/cgi-bin/Rwiki.pl?RwikiHome (...) So, are you sure that another R Wiki is desirable, rather than have people who believe in Wiki's for R use the existing one(s)? I believe the main challenge will (similar as for an R-beginners mailing list) to have well-qualified editors to be willing to review and amend what others have written. I´ve tried to colaborate on the R Wiki hosted by the Hamburg university but the Wiki would get regularlly vandalized by some spam bot, and then I'd have to manually keep reverting it several times. Also the wiki engine used by this wiki is very rudimentary. I think the DokuWiki engine, which is used by Philippe Grosjean is more promising as a workhorse for an 'official' R-wiki. I think that the title could be perhaps changed to Rwiki and the contents currently hosted on the Hamburg wiki 'transfered' to the new location, if the current mantainers of the Hamburg Wiki and Philippe Grosjean agree (I´m cc-ing this msg to them). This could emerge then as official or semi-oficial R-wiki, to be linked to from the R-project home. -- Though this be randomness, yet there is structure in't. Rosa, F.H.F.P Instituto de Matemática e Estatística Universidade de São Paulo Fernando Henrique Ferraz P. da Rosa http://www.feferraz.net __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
