RE: [racket-users] 2htdp/universe performance
That was the first thing I tried, and it got substantially slower. Of the three ways to create large bitmaps, one of them was fast on MacOS, and all of them are slow on Windows. Using a 4096x768 bitmap is clearly not going down a fully hardware accelerated path. From: racket-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:racket-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bloch Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:10 AM To: racket-users@googlegroups.com Subject: [racket-users] 2htdp/universe performance John Carmack writes: The performance problems were related to the larger scrolling worlds. The H2DP versions got slower the more clouds were in the maps. If the background is basically static but scrolling, you might get a substantial performance improvement by (define background (freeze big-expression-that-builds-the-background)) and using that variable henceforth. (The “freeze” function renders an image expression to a bitmap once and for all, trading memory for time.) If not the WHOLE background is basically static, but you have a lot of repeated elements (say, a bunch of identical clouds), you can (define cloud (freeze big-expression-that-builds-a-cloud)) and use that variable instead of the big expression henceforth. There’s no harm in doing both, e.g. (define background (freeze … cloud … cloud … cloud … )) although this won’t buy you any additional performance. The idea that you functionally compose images like this: ... Which draws image1 on top of image2 on top of image 3, which is backwards from the painters order that would draw image 3, then image 2, then image 1. This imperative, side-effect-ing code is a little less clear to a beginner with the OOP and DC concepts, but It better represents what actually happens, and it is much easier to modify the code without worrying about the nesting. It’s not clear to me that the imperative style “better represents what actually happens,” nor that this matters. However, there is a big win associated with the functional approach: it forces model-view separation from the beginning. Model-view separation is how almost all GUI programs are written, and failures to follow it cause a lot of the display bugs in GUI programs. Students who learn an imperative-first approach to GUI invariably end up writing display handlers that modify the model, or mouse handlers that draw to the display, causing the aforementioned display bugs. Stephen Bloch sbloch1...@gmail.commailto:sbloch1...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optouthttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://groups.google.com/d/optoutk=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0Ar=Kjg6LltY9QjkipKooaVldA%3D%3D%0Am=K7ydo0ZPjv7m8zxvDGYN7qMNIVTK9hTRK44h6w1AzV4%3D%0As=1102dd791cbf03a04b142170144b798ed07a688b2e0e8dbb393ead3d538b74d6. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[racket-users] Re: My son's game in Racket
On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 10:28:07 PM UTC+6, John Carmack wrote: We “released” my 10 year old son’s game that was done in Racket: www.1k3c.com I’m still taking a little heat from my wife for using an obscure language instead of something mainstream that is broadly used in industry, but I have nothing but good things to say about using Racket and DrRacket for a beginning programmer, and highly recommend it. I can’t recommend 2htdp/universe for this sort of thing, though. I had to drop to the native GUI bitmaps for performance reasons, hack around the lifecycle to support a separate editor window, and I still don’t know how to make the Quit menu item actually exit the app on the Mac version. I completely understand the reasoning for the way 2htdp/universe is built, and saying that a “real” project should use the grown-up APIs is fine, but the evolution from making a little animation to controlling it somehow to fleshing it out into a game is so natural that recommending a fairly big rewrite is unfortunate. I’m a big booster of functional programming, but I’m not sure that the functional drawing paradigm ever really sank in while my son was working with it, rather it felt like you just drew everything backwards with missing parenthesis at the end. I suspect that using the standard imperative GUI drawing code will make perfect sense to him. I’m not sure yet if we are going to migrate to the regular GUI code for upcoming work, or jump all the way to OpenGL so he can learn the joys of “Why is the screen all black?” Good day. Thank you for this game. I found one little bug: I have Windows 10 and das keyboard model s and when i want to press G or T, or H it's doesn't work. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] Re: My son's game in Racket
Hi, Does G, T, and H work for you in DrRacket ? /Jens Axel 2015-08-25 15:59 GMT+02:00 Mr Susnake susn...@gmail.com: On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 10:28:07 PM UTC+6, John Carmack wrote: We “released” my 10 year old son’s game that was done in Racket: www.1k3c.com I’m still taking a little heat from my wife for using an obscure language instead of something mainstream that is broadly used in industry, but I have nothing but good things to say about using Racket and DrRacket for a beginning programmer, and highly recommend it. I can’t recommend 2htdp/universe for this sort of thing, though. I had to drop to the native GUI bitmaps for performance reasons, hack around the lifecycle to support a separate editor window, and I still don’t know how to make the Quit menu item actually exit the app on the Mac version. I completely understand the reasoning for the way 2htdp/universe is built, and saying that a “real” project should use the grown-up APIs is fine, but the evolution from making a little animation to controlling it somehow to fleshing it out into a game is so natural that recommending a fairly big rewrite is unfortunate. I’m a big booster of functional programming, but I’m not sure that the functional drawing paradigm ever really sank in while my son was working with it, rather it felt like you just drew everything backwards with missing parenthesis at the end. I suspect that using the standard imperative GUI drawing code will make perfect sense to him. I’m not sure yet if we are going to migrate to the regular GUI code for upcoming work, or jump all the way to OpenGL so he can learn the joys of “Why is the screen all black?” Good day. Thank you for this game. I found one little bug: I have Windows 10 and das keyboard model s and when i want to press G or T, or H it's doesn't work. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Jens Axel Søgaard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] Re: My son's game in Racket
On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 8:03:43 PM UTC+6, Jens Axel Søgaard wrote: Hi, Does G, T, and H work for you in DrRacket ? /Jens Axel 2015-08-25 15:59 GMT+02:00 Mr Susnake sus...@gmail.com: On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 10:28:07 PM UTC+6, John Carmack wrote: We “released” my 10 year old son’s game that was done in Racket: www.1k3c.com I’m still taking a little heat from my wife for using an obscure language instead of something mainstream that is broadly used in industry, but I have nothing but good things to say about using Racket and DrRacket for a beginning programmer, and highly recommend it. I can’t recommend 2htdp/universe for this sort of thing, though. I had to drop to the native GUI bitmaps for performance reasons, hack around the lifecycle to support a separate editor window, and I still don’t know how to make the Quit menu item actually exit the app on the Mac version. I completely understand the reasoning for the way 2htdp/universe is built, and saying that a “real” project should use the grown-up APIs is fine, but the evolution from making a little animation to controlling it somehow to fleshing it out into a game is so natural that recommending a fairly big rewrite is unfortunate. I’m a big booster of functional programming, but I’m not sure that the functional drawing paradigm ever really sank in while my son was working with it, rather it felt like you just drew everything backwards with missing parenthesis at the end. I suspect that using the standard imperative GUI drawing code will make perfect sense to him. I’m not sure yet if we are going to migrate to the regular GUI code for upcoming work, or jump all the way to OpenGL so he can learn the joys of “Why is the screen all black?” Good day. Thank you for this game. I found one little bug: I have Windows 10 and das keyboard model s and when i want to press G or T, or H it's doesn't work. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Jens Axel Søgaard Thank you for reply. DrRacket? What is it? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] Re: My son's game in Racket
DrRacket is the programming environment used to build the game. Download it here: http://download.racket-lang.org/ Test the keys and let us know if they work or not. /Jens Axel 2015-08-25 16:08 GMT+02:00 Mr Susnake susn...@gmail.com: On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 8:03:43 PM UTC+6, Jens Axel Søgaard wrote: Hi, Does G, T, and H work for you in DrRacket ? /Jens Axel 2015-08-25 15:59 GMT+02:00 Mr Susnake sus...@gmail.com: On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 10:28:07 PM UTC+6, John Carmack wrote: We “released” my 10 year old son’s game that was done in Racket: www.1k3c.com I’m still taking a little heat from my wife for using an obscure language instead of something mainstream that is broadly used in industry, but I have nothing but good things to say about using Racket and DrRacket for a beginning programmer, and highly recommend it. I can’t recommend 2htdp/universe for this sort of thing, though. I had to drop to the native GUI bitmaps for performance reasons, hack around the lifecycle to support a separate editor window, and I still don’t know how to make the Quit menu item actually exit the app on the Mac version. I completely understand the reasoning for the way 2htdp/universe is built, and saying that a “real” project should use the grown-up APIs is fine, but the evolution from making a little animation to controlling it somehow to fleshing it out into a game is so natural that recommending a fairly big rewrite is unfortunate. I’m a big booster of functional programming, but I’m not sure that the functional drawing paradigm ever really sank in while my son was working with it, rather it felt like you just drew everything backwards with missing parenthesis at the end. I suspect that using the standard imperative GUI drawing code will make perfect sense to him. I’m not sure yet if we are going to migrate to the regular GUI code for upcoming work, or jump all the way to OpenGL so he can learn the joys of “Why is the screen all black?” Good day. Thank you for this game. I found one little bug: I have Windows 10 and das keyboard model s and when i want to press G or T, or H it's doesn't work. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Jens Axel Søgaard Thank you for reply. DrRacket? What is it? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Jens Axel Søgaard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[racket-users] Re: Continued Fraction Arithmetic Package
Hello Racketeers, The continued fractions package has made its first release, complete with documentation and hopefully enough good examples. You can find it at https://github.com/derend/continued-fractions Short story: (require continued-fractions) logs, exponentials, trig, hyperbolic trig, precision guarantees, arithmetic (+ - * /) (require continued-fractions/bases) arbitrary base conversion with user-configurable alphabets Future plans: add the interface for creating custom continued fractions. Any user-requested content I am good enough to implement. Enjoy! Deren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[racket-users] Re: My son's game in Racket
Yes, child learns to program games - awesome! But what I will probably never understand is why you game developers always live on planet Windows. You guys are also programmers, but I think there is no other programmer population that has such a high percentage of Windows people. Even embedded world has understood now (thanks to Raspberry, I guess) that there is another world that was built by programmers for programmers. It's like being a professional Formula 1 driver but only using bikes, because most people who pay tickets to watch Formular 1 are bike drivers as well. Why am I even ranting? There's a new kid in the block, just getting introduced to how the world of programming looks like. He can grow up in this world were he can code and understand every little bit of his system, hacking his desktop manager with 15, and writing a new process handling with 21. Or he can live in a world were between UEFI starting the kernel and the API in his high level, feature rich IDE there's only magic and he will think he's not supposed to understand it. Which kind of kids do we want to have? (PS: I didn't mention a specific distro or kernel here, because every open one is actually fine. Doesn't have to be the same as mine.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] Re: My son's game in Racket
Although I'm not a game developer, I have a past life developing music/audio software commercially. We developed on Windows because that's where the vast majority of the customers were, and that was really the end of the discussion. Also, although I'm about to exaggerate, I think that for much audio and game software, the operating system is a bug not a feature. :) It stands between you and optimal use of the hardware, and can give you as grief as well as help. So, even assuming you rank OSs on some scale of relative goodness, on an absolute scale you start to feel they all sort of suck. :) From the point of view of writing low-level parts of some kinds of software. Having said all that, these days I use Ubuntu, Emacs, Racket, and everything I code is open source or free software. Shrug. Anyway, an interesting aspect of using Racket for this is precisely the agnostic, cross-platform GUI support. On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Erik Bernoth erik.bern...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, child learns to program games - awesome! But what I will probably never understand is why you game developers always live on planet Windows. You guys are also programmers, but I think there is no other programmer population that has such a high percentage of Windows people. Even embedded world has understood now (thanks to Raspberry, I guess) that there is another world that was built by programmers for programmers. It's like being a professional Formula 1 driver but only using bikes, because most people who pay tickets to watch Formular 1 are bike drivers as well. Why am I even ranting? There's a new kid in the block, just getting introduced to how the world of programming looks like. He can grow up in this world were he can code and understand every little bit of his system, hacking his desktop manager with 15, and writing a new process handling with 21. Or he can live in a world were between UEFI starting the kernel and the API in his high level, feature rich IDE there's only magic and he will think he's not supposed to understand it. Which kind of kids do we want to have? (PS: I didn't mention a specific distro or kernel here, because every open one is actually fine. Doesn't have to be the same as mine.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
cross-platform gui (Re: [racket-users] Re: My son's game in Racket)
the agnostic, cross-platform GUI support. That trick never works! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[racket-users] 2htdp/universe performance
John Carmack writes: The performance problems were related to the larger scrolling worlds. The H2DP versions got slower the more clouds were in the maps. If the background is basically static but scrolling, you might get a substantial performance improvement by (define background (freeze big-expression-that-builds-the-background)) and using that variable henceforth. (The “freeze” function renders an image expression to a bitmap once and for all, trading memory for time.) If not the WHOLE background is basically static, but you have a lot of repeated elements (say, a bunch of identical clouds), you can (define cloud (freeze big-expression-that-builds-a-cloud)) and use that variable instead of the big expression henceforth. There’s no harm in doing both, e.g. (define background (freeze … cloud … cloud … cloud … )) although this won’t buy you any additional performance. The idea that you functionally compose images like this: ... Which draws image1 on top of image2 on top of image 3, which is backwards from the painters order that would draw image 3, then image 2, then image 1. This imperative, side-effect-ing code is a little less clear to a beginner with the OOP and DC concepts, but It better represents what actually happens, and it is much easier to modify the code without worrying about the nesting. It’s not clear to me that the imperative style “better represents what actually happens,” nor that this matters. However, there is a big win associated with the functional approach: it forces model-view separation from the beginning. Model-view separation is how almost all GUI programs are written, and failures to follow it cause a lot of the display bugs in GUI programs. Students who learn an imperative-first approach to GUI invariably end up writing display handlers that modify the model, or mouse handlers that draw to the display, causing the aforementioned display bugs. Stephen Bloch sbloch1...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Racket Users group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
