Re: [racket-users] [OT] Nostalgia

[Annaia Berry]

Yeah, one of the inspirations for Heresy is that a while back I went on a
big kick for hunting down early Lisps for 8bit and 16-bit micros.

Really most of the 8-bit ones are pretty terrible; extremely limited,
missing key features of the language (a lot of them leave out lambdas
entirely). The hardware just isn't up to the task, and most use so much
memory there's little left for your programs.

There's a few OK early Schemes though for early 16-bit machines though,
Gambit crops up on the Amiga, I think there was a pretty good Lisp for DOS
that gets a lot of praise, the Mac got the legendary MCL. And if you go all
the way back to MzScheme there was even a version of that for later 68k
Macs. ;)

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 4:19 PM Stephen De Gabrielle <
spdegabrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I remember being interested in Acornsof Lisp for the BBC Micro, but sadly
> it was too expensive to be seriously considered(£80 iirc). I did manage to
> get a hold of 'A little smalltalk' and the associated book later, but ended
> up going down the Racket rabbit hole instead...
>
> S.
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 8:03 AM Annaia Berry  wrote:
>
>> Amusingly enough, I've spent a little time playing with a Lisp someone
>> ported to the 128K Color Computer 3.
>>
>> https://github.com/jamieleecho/minilisp
>>
>> It is very hard to do much of anything once the interpreter and library
>> is loaded in. To be honest I'm still impressed it runs at all. :D It's a
>> pretty impressive little dialect for an 8-bit machine, even has macros and
>> lambdas, which most attempts lacked entirely.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 6:36 PM Neil Van Dyke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Last week on HN, a non-student was complaining about having to increase
>>> DrRacket's memory limit 3 times while they were playing with it, so I
>>> pointed out that DrRacket was designed for new students, and suggested
>>> that maybe that memory limit was a good thing for new students.
>>>
>>> One of frequent complaints, from generation to generation, seems to be
>>> "kids these days got it too easy".  Which, in programming, is not
>>> necessarily grumpy, but concern that a lot of learning opportunity that
>>> comes from working with resource constraints is being missed.
>>> Personally, I think there's a balance, and there's also learning
>>> opportunity missed when you don't have lots of resources.  Ideally, a
>>> person gets both kinds of experiences.
>>>
>>> As a C and C++ programmer who was then an early Java promoter, I was a
>>> bit concerned about that, at the time.  I figured we'd probably move to
>>> Java, and all the students already had use of powerful multiprocessor
>>> workstations.  That was one of the attractions of then playing with
>>> programming the Pilot PDA ("https://www.neilvandyke.org/t-map/;), and I
>>> promoted Pilot programming to other students specifically for the reason
>>> of learning to develop with tight resource constraints.
>>>
>>> Other Racket relevance: the approach to fitting the toy "route planner"
>>> into a few KB was to use two little DSLs, with a Lisp as code generator
>>> to get around the limitations of macro preprocessing in C.  Between
>>> that, the crazy DSLs I made as sets of cpp macros for my compiler (C++)
>>> and robot (C) assignments, and an awful concurrent hierarchical state
>>> machines language that took way too much effort to implement in Java, I
>>> suppose it's not a surprise I later decided to move to Scheme/Lisp for
>>> my main research tools.
>>>
>>> Also, copious computing resources becoming available to lots of people
>>> became a concern to some researchers, who no longer felt as privileged
>>> as before.  At the start of the dotcom boom, one of my grad school
>>> advisors was already spending most of their time on startups (and there
>>> was some truth to the joke about advisor only wanting MS+IPO students).
>>> They called an off-site retreat for our group, where a big part of the
>>> case was that the university research lab no longer had special
>>> advantages like supercomputers that other people didn't have.  (And I'd
>>> previously been horrified to see the storage array cabinet from a
>>> Connection Machine being used as a barkeeper counter, for the lab's posh
>>> sponsor events.).
>>>
>>> Today, it's true: I have my own deep neural networks supercomputer in my
>>> living room, for a few hundred dollars, and it's just an ordinary
>>> consumer GPU like children have in their gaming P

Re: [racket-users] [OT] Nostalgia

[Annaia Berry]

Amusingly enough, I've spent a little time playing with a Lisp someone
ported to the 128K Color Computer 3.

https://github.com/jamieleecho/minilisp

It is very hard to do much of anything once the interpreter and library is
loaded in. To be honest I'm still impressed it runs at all. :D It's a
pretty impressive little dialect for an 8-bit machine, even has macros and
lambdas, which most attempts lacked entirely.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 6:36 PM Neil Van Dyke  wrote:

> Last week on HN, a non-student was complaining about having to increase
> DrRacket's memory limit 3 times while they were playing with it, so I
> pointed out that DrRacket was designed for new students, and suggested
> that maybe that memory limit was a good thing for new students.
>
> One of frequent complaints, from generation to generation, seems to be
> "kids these days got it too easy".  Which, in programming, is not
> necessarily grumpy, but concern that a lot of learning opportunity that
> comes from working with resource constraints is being missed.
> Personally, I think there's a balance, and there's also learning
> opportunity missed when you don't have lots of resources.  Ideally, a
> person gets both kinds of experiences.
>
> As a C and C++ programmer who was then an early Java promoter, I was a
> bit concerned about that, at the time.  I figured we'd probably move to
> Java, and all the students already had use of powerful multiprocessor
> workstations.  That was one of the attractions of then playing with
> programming the Pilot PDA ("https://www.neilvandyke.org/t-map/;), and I
> promoted Pilot programming to other students specifically for the reason
> of learning to develop with tight resource constraints.
>
> Other Racket relevance: the approach to fitting the toy "route planner"
> into a few KB was to use two little DSLs, with a Lisp as code generator
> to get around the limitations of macro preprocessing in C.  Between
> that, the crazy DSLs I made as sets of cpp macros for my compiler (C++)
> and robot (C) assignments, and an awful concurrent hierarchical state
> machines language that took way too much effort to implement in Java, I
> suppose it's not a surprise I later decided to move to Scheme/Lisp for
> my main research tools.
>
> Also, copious computing resources becoming available to lots of people
> became a concern to some researchers, who no longer felt as privileged
> as before.  At the start of the dotcom boom, one of my grad school
> advisors was already spending most of their time on startups (and there
> was some truth to the joke about advisor only wanting MS+IPO students).
> They called an off-site retreat for our group, where a big part of the
> case was that the university research lab no longer had special
> advantages like supercomputers that other people didn't have.  (And I'd
> previously been horrified to see the storage array cabinet from a
> Connection Machine being used as a barkeeper counter, for the lab's posh
> sponsor events.).
>
> Today, it's true: I have my own deep neural networks supercomputer in my
> living room, for a few hundred dollars, and it's just an ordinary
> consumer GPU like children have in their gaming PCs/consoles.  Which
> makes for "lots of resources" learning opportunities, complementing the
> "not enough resources (until you figure it out)" learning opportunities.
>
> --
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> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket News - Issue 14

[Annaia Berry]

the SSL cert seems to have expired the other day.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:37 PM Stephen Foster 
wrote:

> My browser is telling me that the SSL certificate for racket-news.com is
> invalid.
> Is it just me?
>
> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 7:54:54 AM UTC-7, Stephen De Gabrielle wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Paulo!
>> Another awesome issue of Racket News.
>>
>> S.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:49 PM Paulo Matos  wrote:
>>
>>> Racket News issue 14 is here.
>>> https://racket-news.com/2019/08/racket-news-issue-14.html
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paulo Matos
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/05377b52-dc75-09ce-97b6-5c9734bbaec3%40linki.tools
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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Re: [racket-users] https://github.com/racket/racket2-rfcs/blob/master/prior-art.md

[Annaia Berry]

Thanks, will look into doing that when I get home maybe.

As for Heresy2, it's not off the cards, but I kinda want to see how the
Racket version shakes out because I might just be duplicating effort for
something that won't actually be very fun for me. We'll see what happens.

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 1:33 PM Stephen De Gabrielle <
spdegabrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> No problem :)
>
> > Not sure where to submit this to that list,
>
> Just submit a PR - that’s what I did.(I’m not in the Racket team - I just
> submitted a PR and it was quickly approved by a member of
>
> There are many relevant issues, but maybe this one in the first instance;
> https://github.com/racket/racket2-rfcs/issues/14
>
> Please don’t let the discussions about Racket2 put you off working on
> ‘Heresy2’ :(
>
> Kind regards
> Stephen
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 10:01, Annaia Berry  wrote:
>
>> Forgot to send this to the actual list (sorry Stephen!).
>>
>> Some other thoughts that come to mind are WebAssembly, which has an
>> S-expr syntax but is targeted by lots of different non-Lisp langs. As well
>> I think GCC at least used to have some internal S-expr-like intermediate
>> forms for ASTs.
>>
>> I had plans for a "Heresy2" but ... given the controversy (and more
>> seriously, the extensive writing over the last week about the challenges of
>> making the switch), I think I might put a pin in that ...
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Annaia Berry 
>> Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [racket-users]
>> https://github.com/racket/racket2-rfcs/blob/master/prior-art.md
>> To: Stephen De Gabrielle 
>>
>>
>> Not sure where to submit this to that list, but Heresy contains a few
>> infix forms. The m-block math syntax, and the do notation syntax, both use
>> infix expressions.
>>
>> Monad/do notation is here:
>> https://docs.racket-lang.org/heresy/monad-do.html
>>
>> M-blocks are still somewhat undocumented but you can find some examples
>> in the tests:
>> https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/tests/infix-math.rkt
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:31 PM Stephen De Gabrielle <
>> spdegabrie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> FYI
>>>
>>> https://github.com/racket/racket2-rfcs/blob/master/prior-art.md
>>>
>>> --
>>> 
>>>
>>> --
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAGHj7-LKb%3DbbYw7HEOSpDhkQgj8ePZcyksOJyguBwqeM6Y32jA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
> --
> 
>

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Fwd: [racket-users] https://github.com/racket/racket2-rfcs/blob/master/prior-art.md

[Annaia Berry]

Forgot to send this to the actual list (sorry Stephen!).

Some other thoughts that come to mind are WebAssembly, which has an S-expr
syntax but is targeted by lots of different non-Lisp langs. As well I think
GCC at least used to have some internal S-expr-like intermediate forms for
ASTs.

I had plans for a "Heresy2" but ... given the controversy (and more
seriously, the extensive writing over the last week about the challenges of
making the switch), I think I might put a pin in that ...

-- Forwarded message -----
From: Annaia Berry 
Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [racket-users]
https://github.com/racket/racket2-rfcs/blob/master/prior-art.md
To: Stephen De Gabrielle 


Not sure where to submit this to that list, but Heresy contains a few infix
forms. The m-block math syntax, and the do notation syntax, both use infix
expressions.

Monad/do notation is here: https://docs.racket-lang.org/heresy/monad-do.html

M-blocks are still somewhat undocumented but you can find some examples in
the tests:
https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/tests/infix-math.rkt


On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:31 PM Stephen De Gabrielle <
spdegabrie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> FYI
>
> https://github.com/racket/racket2-rfcs/blob/master/prior-art.md
>
> --
> 
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAGHj7-LKb%3DbbYw7HEOSpDhkQgj8ePZcyksOJyguBwqeM6Y32jA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Re: Online IDE’s for Racket ?

[Annaia Berry]

I set up a Racket web project on Glitch here: https://glitch.com/~rantstack

With this you can get live reloading and hosting of a Racket web server.

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 1:58 PM Laurent  wrote:

> Rollapp looks interesting, but when I want to sign in with my gmail
> account it requires to get information about all my linked email addresses.
> That really seems unnecessary to me, so I didn't try it.
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:59 PM Stephen De Gabrielle <
> spdegabrie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes - WeScheme is awesome - and so is
>> http://pasterack.org
>>
>> Suggestion: upvote racket on repl.it so you can run it from everywhere:
>>
>> https://repl.it/language-requests/p/racket
>>
>> (I know it is unlikely to be as good as the full DrRacket or racket-mode
>> experience)
>>
>> S.
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 19:58, Stephen Foster 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow!  This is is cool.
>>>
>>> Also +1 -- since I'm interested in this very topic and curious to know
>>> what's out there.
>>>
>>> P.S. You probably already know about wescheme.org, right?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 5:17:40 AM UTC-7, Stephen De Gabrielle
>>> wrote:

 Hi

 I found that you can run DrRacket on rollApp virtualisation platform[1].

 Are there any other online IDE’s for Racket? I’m interested in both
 in-browser repl/editor combinations or virtualised DrRacket.

 Stephen

 [1] rollApp DrRacket free version does not permit saving. Signup
 required. https://www.rollapp.com/app/drracket

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[racket-users] Heresy 0.3.0 released

[Annaia Berry]

Greetings,

Version 0.3.0 of the Heresy programming language has been released,
containing a re-implementation of Holes based on Racket boxes, while
maintaining the same basic API, plus additional support for a "hole-do" DSL
for monadic operations on holes.

Special thanks to Greg Hendershott, for both rackjure, which provided some
of the internals for the new holes implementation, and for his
travis-racket scripts which enabled me to set up CI for Heresy with Travis.

You can find Heresy on Github , or
install with raco pkg install heresy. Docs are available at
http://docs.racket-lang.org/heresy/index.html* or locally after install.

Thanks for your time!
Annaia


* Note: There seems to be an issue with the package server as it's not
rebuilding the hosted docs for me at the moment despite running the recheck
twice. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, someone needs to kick the
server, or it's just going to take a moment.

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Re: [racket-users] Alternatives to DrRacket

[Annaia Berry]

I generally use DrRacket for all my Racket dev because it "just works
(tm)". I have sometimes used other editors for it, and the main things I
miss from those usually are autocomplete (DrR has this but it's always been
way too slow for me so I never turn it on), more detailed syntax
highlighting (like royall Spence's examples), rainbow parens, and perhaps
most importantly of all: Parinfer.

Parinfer makes Lisp editing vastly less painful, though DrRacket is pretty
good about visualizing bracket containment so that missing parens at least
are easily spotted usually. restructuring code and so forth though is just
so much more pleasant I find with Parinfer, especially the Atom version's
auto-reformatting (something I miss even in my favorite, VS Code!).

for the most part though, DrRacket always seems to just be "good enough"
that having everything in one easily accessed tool is worth what minor
conveniences I miss out on.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Robby Findler  wrote:

> It may help to disable online compilation. (Click on the little circle in
> the bottom to get a menu that lets you disable it.)
>
> Robby
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 9:21 PM Richard Cobbe  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 03:42:14PM +, Stephen De Gabrielle wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I’ve noticed some list members use other editors or IDE’s.
>> >
>> > I know two big reasons for using a complex tool is it’s stickiness
>> factors;
>> > normally a combination of familiarity (hence speed) with a lot of
>> powerful
>> > features and non-transportable customisation.
>> >
>> > Putting stickiness factors aside, what features in other editors/IDE’s
>> > would you like to see in DrRacket?
>>
>> I generally switch back and forth between Emacs and DrRacket as
>> appropriate
>> for the task at hand.  DrRacket is good for code navigation, but if I'm
>> doing a lot of writing, I generally prefer emacs, largely for reasons that
>> others have mentioned in this thread.
>>
>> There is one particular issue, however, that I haven't seen come up: power
>> usage.  I haven't really investigated what's going on here, but DrRacket
>> drains the battery on my MacBook Pro quite rapidly (last experienced with
>> DrRacket 6.11 on MacOS 10.12.latest).  What's more, it appears to do this
>> even if the app is only open in the background and I'm not actually
>> interacting with it.  So if I don't have access to AC power, I generally
>> close DrRacket and stick with Emacs.
>>
>> If the DrRacket maintainers are interested, I'd be happy to help diagnose
>> the power problem in more detail, as time permits.  However, I don't
>> really
>> know what tests would be useful.  Suggestions welcome!
>>
>> Richard
>>
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