[RBW] Re: 2x10 atlantis crankset options?

[Peter Adler]

One thing to keep in mind is that the cranks you list use different spindle 
tapers; WI VBC and Velo Orange are JIS, while TA's 5-pin Pro V is ISO. This 
shouldn't be a deal breaker, but ISO BBs are a little trickier to find. 
It's also possible, per the late great Sheldon Brown, to swap a JIS spindle 
for an ISO, and vice versa . You just 
have to do a little arithmetic to get the chainline right.

Mark's experience is with the WI crank. I'm guessing his Phil Wood BB is 
fairly new; Phil's recent 119mm BBs are JIS. My experience is with the TA, 
and its various French rivals (Stronglight 49, Nervar 631), all of which 
are ISO: I have 5-pin French cranks on four of my bikes, several cranksets 
in reserve, and a sizeable inventory of TA 6-arm chainrings. For a double 
chainset, TA recommends their own loose-ball ref:344 ISO spindle, at 
114.5mm. Using Sheldon's JIS-ISO conversion factor (ISO crank on JIS 
spindle length X = ISO crank on ISO spindle length X+4.5mm), the optimum 
JIS spindle for a double on an British/French/Swiss-thread frame would be 
110mm: the recommended 114.5 ISO minus 4.5mm.

A lot of this depends on frame specifics, of course. If you have a frame 
with wider-spaced dropouts, you'll probably need some extra spindle length 
to prevent the crankarms from chewing up the chainstays. This is 
particularly important with the French cranks, which are low-Q in large 
part because the crankarms are nearly parallel to the chainline. A more 
modern crankset will angle outward specifically to clear the stays. If you 
have access to a bike kitchen, I think it's worth rummaging around in the 
box of used BB spindles (every bike kitchen/shop has at least one of 
these). That way, you can swap spindles several times to fine-tune the 
length before choosing the exact BB on which to spend money. Even if you're 
going to use a sealed bearing BB, swapping loose-ball spindles around to 
assess the clearance/chainline helps to get the length correct before you 
sink your bucks into something.

By way of comparison: Like Mark, I too am using a 119mm Phil Wood BB - but 
it's an older '70s  Phil Wood #3 BB with a classic Campagnolo taper, which 
splits the difference between JIS and ISO. I'm using it with a 5-pin triple 
crankset (Nervar cranks, TA rings) on a 1971 Raleigh International. I have 
20mm clearance between the crankarm and the chainstay, and 4mm clearance 
between the inner face of the chainring bolt on the granny and the 
chainstay near the BB shell.




Peter "French drivetrain survivalist" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 3:11:04 PM UTC-8, mike gasparino wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> building up a 2x10 atlantis and looking for recommendations for a double 
> crankset. I know with the bowed out chain stays the clearance is an issue. 
> I would love to use the following cranks (WI VBC, TA cyclotouriste, velo 
> orange, etc. Oh and if anyone has used any of them, what spindle length bb 
> did you use. Please help get me on the road!
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Making the Betty Foy bettier!!!

[René Sterental]

As I wait for the right new owner of my Hunqapillar, and thanks to having
already lost 40+ pounds thanks to EBDJ, I've picked up my riding again and
this past weekend did some upgrades on my Betty Foy, which is probably the
Rivendell I have the most fun riding, although if pressed hard I'm going to
get all weird trying to choose between the Atlantis, Homer and Betty. But,
for commuting and riding around town, if I had to truly choose only one,
the Betty Foy might be that one.

It might be that this is due to the 650b wheel set, it might be that the 58
frame is really perfect for me, it might be the geometry. The thing is,
when I ride this bike, I get a big smile on my face and I just love it.

The upgrades that make it even more perfect are:
- The Brooks Cambium C17 saddle, which to me is the most comfortable I've
tried ever, and is so right out of the box.
- The Ahearne MAP new handlebar with the longer straight sections so the
grips and brakes fit very comfortably. This is an awesome general purpose
handlebar and is competing for favorite with the Compass Champs Elisee that
I have on the Atlantis. It's a bit wider, which fits the Betty's geometry
perfectly.
- Compass Loup Loup 38mm SL tires. I had such tight tolerances with the
Hetres and the Berthoud fenders that I decided to try the new LL tires,
which are super supple as all the new generation Compass tires. I now have
the clearance and the quality of the ride is as good as it was with the
Hetres. The thing is, when I had tried the Lierres, I didn't like how they
compared with the Hetres. Now, I have no need to wish I had Hetres on the
rendered Betty.
- Since I'm using it for commute along with the Atlantis, and for rides
around town primarily, I added an Edelux II, which I tried for the first
time last night on the commute home in the dark. As you all know, it's
wonderful and significantly better than the original Edelux. I'm going to
have some Edelux I lights for sale soon...

I'm still going to try to find which of the three Rivs I like better, and
for what. It doesn't really matter though, until I decide if I need to
downsize again...

Photos prove the Betty is bettier!!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/22553128307/in/album-72157625115263842/

René

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[RBW] Re: I rode my Clem yesterday...

[Tony DeFilippo]

Sounds like a successful first ride to me!  Can't wait to see all the 
matching luggage you create for the new bike!

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[RBW] Re: 2x10 atlantis crankset options?

[Mark Reimer]

Great response Peter. Lots of options out there. You are correct, my Phil 
BB is only about 8 months old or so, JIS taper. 

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:05:36 PM UTC-6, Peter Adler wrote:
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that the cranks you list use different 
> spindle tapers; WI VBC and Velo Orange are JIS, while TA's 5-pin Pro V is 
> ISO. This shouldn't be a deal breaker, but ISO BBs are a little trickier to 
> find. It's also possible, per the late great Sheldon Brown, to swap a JIS 
> spindle for an ISO, and vice versa . 
> You just have to do a little arithmetic to get the chainline right.
>
> Mark's experience is with the WI crank. I'm guessing his Phil Wood BB is 
> fairly new; Phil's recent 119mm BBs are JIS. My experience is with the TA, 
> and its various French rivals (Stronglight 49, Nervar 631), all of which 
> are ISO: I have 5-pin French cranks on four of my bikes, several cranksets 
> in reserve, and a sizeable inventory of TA 6-arm chainrings. For a double 
> chainset, TA recommends their own loose-ball ref:344 ISO spindle, at 
> 114.5mm. Using Sheldon's JIS-ISO conversion factor (ISO crank on JIS 
> spindle length X = ISO crank on ISO spindle length X+4.5mm), the optimum 
> JIS spindle for a double on an British/French/Swiss-thread frame would be 
> 110mm: the recommended 114.5 ISO minus 4.5mm.
>
> A lot of this depends on frame specifics, of course. If you have a frame 
> with wider-spaced dropouts, you'll probably need some extra spindle length 
> to prevent the crankarms from chewing up the chainstays. This is 
> particularly important with the French cranks, which are low-Q in large 
> part because the crankarms are nearly parallel to the chainline. A more 
> modern crankset will angle outward specifically to clear the stays. If you 
> have access to a bike kitchen, I think it's worth rummaging around in the 
> box of used BB spindles (every bike kitchen/shop has at least one of 
> these). That way, you can swap spindles several times to fine-tune the 
> length before choosing the exact BB on which to spend money. Even if you're 
> going to use a sealed bearing BB, swapping loose-ball spindles around to 
> assess the clearance/chainline helps to get the length correct before you 
> sink your bucks into something.
>
> By way of comparison: Like Mark, I too am using a 119mm Phil Wood BB - but 
> it's an older '70s  Phil Wood #3 BB with a classic Campagnolo taper, which 
> splits the difference between JIS and ISO. I'm using it with a 5-pin triple 
> crankset (Nervar cranks, TA rings) on a 1971 Raleigh International. I have 
> 20mm clearance between the crankarm and the chainstay, and 4mm clearance 
> between the inner face of the chainring bolt on the granny and the 
> chainstay near the BB shell.
>
>
> 
>
>
> Peter "French drivetrain survivalist" Adler
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 3:11:04 PM UTC-8, mike gasparino wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>> building up a 2x10 atlantis and looking for recommendations for a double 
>> crankset. I know with the bowed out chain stays the clearance is an issue. 
>> I would love to use the following cranks (WI VBC, TA cyclotouriste, velo 
>> orange, etc. Oh and if anyone has used any of them, what spindle length bb 
>> did you use. Please help get me on the road!
>>
>> Michael
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: This wheelset whadayathink? Y/N?

[Bill Lindsay]

I think it's a tremendous price.  $245 shipped for a solid wheelset is a 
nice deal.  I'd say go for it.  

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:13:00 PM UTC-8, drew wrote:
>
> looking for a new wheelset for the hunqapillar. this looks like it might 
> be a deal? 
> Dyad with XT hubs. i have Dyads and like them, but know nothing about 
> those XT hubs. half the price of the velocity stock wheels that riv sells 
> and i was considering starting to save up for. 
>
> HERE 
> 
>
> what do you think?
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] This wheelset whadayathink? Y/N?

[René Sterental]

Dyads with XT hubs is exactly what Rich recommended and built for me. I'm
running them on the Atlantis with no issues and ran a similar wheel set,
with different rims on the Hunqapillar. Those XT hubs are excellent, simple
to service and good on your wallet!

René

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 2:13 PM, drew  wrote:

> looking for a new wheelset for the hunqapillar. this looks like it might
> be a deal?
> Dyad with XT hubs. i have Dyads and like them, but know nothing about
> those XT hubs. half the price of the velocity stock wheels that riv sells
> and i was considering starting to save up for.
>
> HERE
> 
>
> what do you think?
>
>
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[RBW] Re: What length Silver Cranks came on your Clem?

[William R.]

Grant had this to say in July:

"I am excited about our SILVER crank. It may, in fact, be perfect. It’ll 
come on the CLEM (with CLEMMISH chainrings), and then on the APPA, and 
we’ll have it available for sale, too. In the Spring. As a triple with 43 x 
35 x 24  rings, and as a double with 38 x 24 rings. In 170, 173, 178, and 
182 lengths…is the plan."

I wonder what length will be spec'ed on my 58 Appaloosa. Probably 173 or 
178, either of which I will be fine with.

Bill in Westchester, NY


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[RBW] This wheelset whadayathink? Y/N?

[drew]

looking for a new wheelset for the hunqapillar. this looks like it might be 
a deal? 
Dyad with XT hubs. i have Dyads and like them, but know nothing about those 
XT hubs. half the price of the velocity stock wheels that riv sells and i 
was considering starting to save up for. 

HERE 


what do you think?


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[RBW] Re: What length Silver Cranks came on your Clem?

[Bill Lindsay]

That's really great.  I'm pumped that I'll be getting a Silver Crank on an 
Appaloosa.  Probably 173 on my 55, I'd guess.  

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 12:36:46 PM UTC-8, William R. wrote:
>
> Grant had this to say in July:
>
> "I am excited about our SILVER crank. It may, in fact, be perfect. It’ll 
> come on the CLEM (with CLEMMISH chainrings), and then on the APPA, and 
> we’ll have it available for sale, too. In the Spring. As a triple with 43 x 
> 35 x 24  rings, and as a double with 38 x 24 rings. In 170, 173, 178, and 
> 182 lengths…is the plan."
>
> I wonder what length will be spec'ed on my 58 Appaloosa. Probably 173 or 
> 178, either of which I will be fine with.
>
> Bill in Westchester, NY
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tektro Brake RL720 Interrupter Levers on Bosco Bars?

[Joe Bernard]

I ran a Paul Interrupter as a front rake lever on a folder with a flat 22.2 
bar. A couple wraps of cloth tape did the trick. 

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 7:05:44 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I was thinking of putting Tektro Brake RL720 Interrupter Levers on my 
> Bosco Bars. Riv says that they don't fit Bosco's because the clamp diameter 
> of the bars is 22.2mm and the Interrupter levers are designed for a 24.0 
> clamp diameter bars. But...really? Can't I just add a wrap or two of 
> friction tape to the bars before I put on the Tektro Brake RL720 
> Interrupter Levers? What about just putting them on over the bar wrap? (I 
> use shellacked Newbaums)
>
> Has anyone had success with the Tektro Brake RL720 Interrupter Levers on 
> Bosco's? Are there other good interrupter levers that work with Bosco's?
>
> Doug
>

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Re: [RBW] This wheelset whadayathink? Y/N?

[Tim Gavin]

T780 hubs are nice.  They're very similar to the disc-brake only M780
design.  These have an oversized aluminum axle, which is strong and light.

However, the oversized aluminum axle means that these rear hubs (Deore XT
770/775/780/785 and XTR 970/975) use a different freehub than the standard
Shimano 8/9/10 unit.

The different freehub also requires a different freehub removal tool; the
10 mm hex is no longer sufficient.  I believe it requires a 14 mm hex?
I'll have to check the tool I used (I found a socket at a motor supply
store; it was made for an oil plug on a Yamaha motorcycle).

I bought the 26" version of this wheelset which included the T780 rear hub
and the DH-T780 dynamo hub:  ~$200 shipped.

 I'm really happy with them, though the Mavic A319 rims aren't nearly as
nice as the Dyads on the set you linked, and they're 32-spoke instead of
36-spoke.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:13 PM, drew  wrote:

> looking for a new wheelset for the hunqapillar. this looks like it might
> be a deal?
> Dyad with XT hubs. i have Dyads and like them, but know nothing about
> those XT hubs. half the price of the velocity stock wheels that riv sells
> and i was considering starting to save up for.
>
> HERE
> 
>
> what do you think?
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Eunice Chang]

I sort-of inherited a 61 cm Homer that I named Thumper Buttercup.

My only problem with it was that it rode so well and beautifully that it
practically sang, and got me to buy another Rivendell, a QB. So that's my
warning about Rivs, it's a slippery slope and then it's like trying to pick
your favorite child when you go to your bike stable. First world problems,
I know.

But seriously, it's a great all-rounder - I've used it for short distance,
long distance, errands with heavy loads, being a lousy ride leader (I kind
of left my followers behind). It's my most comfortable bike in the stable.
And it grows on you- and I suspect like most of us who have AHH, it becomes
a part of us.

And it's very, very photogenic. Here's proof:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ejchang/albums/72157644207754985

E.



On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:08 PM, ted  wrote:

>
> I have a 56 Homer I bought through this list. As others have said the AHH
> is a really lovely bike. Whether or not its what you are looking for may
> depend on what you mean when you say "springy" or "responsive flexible
> tubing". If you are wanting the flex of a standard tube diameter thin wall
> frame that some associate with "planing", then the Homer may not be for
> you.
>
> The AHH tubing is somewhat lighter than the Hillborne or Atlantis. I think
> mine weighs about 7lbs (frame, fork, headset and binder bolt), which I
> believe is about 1.5 lbs more than a Rodeo. Like other Riv's the tubes are
> "oversized". I think my bike is quite lively and very responsive, but I
> don't think the folks who wax on about planing and thin walled standard
> sized tubes would favor the AHH.
>
> I used to ride a late 70's Nobilette built frame with then standard sized
> 531 tubes (still have it just don't ride it much). When jumping or climbing
> hard I believe I felt the frame flexing. I didn't really feel one way or
> the other about that. I really liked that bike.
> My next frame was an ~1980 Gios that had a shorter wheelbase and short
> beefy stays. I was struck by how direct and immediate the connection
> between the pedals and the contact patch of the rear tire was, and I really
> liked that. The handling was also very precise and very responsive, which
> was kinda great (particularly riding crits and such). I immediately much
> preferred the Gios for the riding I was doing at the time, though it was
> kinda unforgiving and perhaps not so great (still have that bike too).
> When I got my Homer the first real ride I took had me thinking of Will
> Smith in 4th of July yelling "I have got to get me one of these". It was
> (and still is) comfy. It's handling was (and still is) responsive and
> precise without seeming the least bit twitchy, and the sense of immediate
> and direct connection between pushing on the pedals and the bike jumping
> foreword was (and still is) every bit as strong and solid as the Gios.
> Since I changed tires from 32s to 42s the handling seems a bit more stable
> or slightly less quick but I still like it a lot. The next tires I buy for
> it will probably be 38s.
>
> I frequently ride with a group in which my AHH is the only non MCFRB.
> Sometimes one of the guys will say its amazing what I can do on that bike.
> I tell them the bike is not a handicap, though my fat belly is. I also ride
> it wherever I want. Paved roads, fire roads, wide trails, single track. The
> MCFRB guys I ride with seem unwilling to venture off the pavement on those
> bikes. Once when I said I had ridden a route they were saying you couldn't
> do on a road bike the response was "yea but that bike goes anywhere".
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:40 AM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Many other Rivs get a lot of press here, but I really haven't heard much
>> on the Homer. Curious about the ride of this bike - it's liveliness as
>> compared to an Atlantis or Hillborne. Is its tubing relatively lighter? Is
>> it a softer feel? Is it more beautiful?
>>
>> Considering one as my all round dirt road bike and looking for something
>> springy with centerpulls and clearance for 38s with fenders.
>>
>
> On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:09:43 PM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Thank you all for your considered ideas on this bike - its great to hear
>> more about it.
>>
>> I'm considering it among the Riv lineup as a potential dirt road
>> randonneuring/pass hunting bike. I live and ride at the top of VT in the
>> Northeast Kingdom - if you look at a map, there aren't really any major
>> roads. Its a very rural area, I'm sure there aren't any other Riv bikes,
>> and every ride I do is 95% dirt road. I want something that works well with
>> a front load (15 lbs. or so) and has responsive, flexible tubing. I'm long
>> and lean at 6' 3", 175 lbs.
>>
>> I'm attracted to the Homer because it seems like it might be the bike in
>> Riv's lineup that has the lightest tubing for a bike with good tire
>> clearances ( at least 38 is mandatory for the roads 

[RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[MartyG]

 

Takes me back. This from the old A.H.H. website - long forgotten...


*The Resurrection of A. Homer Hilsen *

 

There it was, there it sat.

Bars akimbo, tires flat.

 

Cluster missing, saddle worn. 

Dangling hemp-wrap. Dusty. Torn.

 

Rubbed the down-tube, read the name:

A. Homer Hilsen – of Rivendell fame. 

 

I knelt to worship and wondered why.

Lost, or stolen? Left to die?

 

Who would leave it? Could I? Could You?

I asked around, nobody knew.

 

I felt linked like a chain to its ultimate fate,

the local bike shop was open ‘till eight…

 

They told me the story of a man dressed in wool.

He lived in the country, his glass always half full.

 

The bike was his passion, his comfort, his dream.

Fittings for Mark’s rack, lugs filled with cream.

 

But no one had seen him, at least for a while.

The man had moved on. My lips cracked a small smile. 

 

I asked the police what the policy was.

They showed me the poster: Auction by Fuzz.

 

I showed up quite early, on the day of the deal.

Misty and quiet, the sky painted like steel. 

 

I noticed the Hilsen being eyed by a punk,

mixed in with the lawnmowers, car parts and junk.

 

He grabbed a brake lever and gave it a tug,

Spat on a pedal, then moved on with a shrug.

 

The auction moved slowly, through toilets and tools,

Something for everyone: the dealers, the fools.

 

And then it was up there, wheeled up by a cop.

The pads squealed on the front rim. It came to a stop.


The bidding began with the auctioneers’ pitch:

“A handsome blue bike for the not quite so rich!”

 

It was me and the punk, and a man I could see

who was standing alone near a lone Redwood tree.

 

It had to be mine. I just had to win.

To let Homer go home without me was a sin!  

 

The punk shrugged again when three figures were spoke.

Fished through his pockets, confirmed he was broke.

 

I looked near the tree, heard the faint ping of a bell,

The auctioneer paused, raised the gavel. It fell. 

 

“It’s mine! Can’t believe it!” My grin ear to ear.

I cashed out in seconds, lost a fight with a tear.

 

I wheeled Hilsen homeward and vowed to be kinder.

Put him up on my work stand and loosened the binder.

 

I thought about fate, how I won, how I got’m.

Flipped the frame in the stand to examine the bottom.

 

As soon as the upside was more downside than most,

A small rolled up paper fluttered out from the post:

 

*“I’m happy you own me, the pleasure’s all mine.*

*That punk would’ve stripped me and sold me for wine.”*

 

*“Now we can share them, those days on the road.*

*Losing all count of the friendships we sowed.”*

 

*“You see, I’m attracted to people like you;*

*People who dream of a journey or two.”   *

*  A.H.H.*

 

I’m sure when I’m older, my legs tired of turning,

I’ll think of this day; of the joy and the yearning.

 

I’ll pass it along to a like-minded good soul;

dusty and weathered, but ready to roll.

 

The bike will live on, with new stories to tell;

new owner, new road, and the faint ping of a bell.

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Re: [RBW] This wheelset whadayathink? Y/N?

[Tim Gavin]

Yep, 14mm hex required for freehub removal.

http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/Wheel/MTB/SI_4S70A/SI-4S70A-001-ENG_v1_m56577569830745424.pdf

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:24:12 PM UTC-6, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> T780 hubs are nice.  They're very similar to the disc-brake only M780 
> design.  These have an oversized aluminum axle, which is strong and light.
>
> However, the oversized aluminum axle means that these rear hubs (Deore XT 
> 770/775/780/785 and XTR 970/975) use a different freehub than the standard 
> Shimano 8/9/10 unit.  
>
> The different freehub also requires a different freehub removal tool; the 
> 10 mm hex is no longer sufficient.  I believe it requires a 14 mm hex?  
> I'll have to check the tool I used (I found a socket at a motor supply 
> store; it was made for an oil plug on a Yamaha motorcycle).
>
> I bought the 26" version of this wheelset which included the T780 rear hub 
> and the DH-T780 dynamo hub:  ~$200 shipped. 
> 
>  
>  I'm really happy with them, though the Mavic A319 rims aren't nearly as 
> nice as the Dyads on the set you linked, and they're 32-spoke instead of 
> 36-spoke.
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:13 PM, drew  wrote:
>
>> looking for a new wheelset for the hunqapillar. this looks like it might 
>> be a deal? 
>> Dyad with XT hubs. i have Dyads and like them, but know nothing about 
>> those XT hubs. half the price of the velocity stock wheels that riv sells 
>> and i was considering starting to save up for. 
>>
>> HERE 
>> 
>>
>> what do you think?
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I have a Homer, Ram (650b for brevets) and a Roadeo, so I am leaning to the
lively side of Riv bikes. I weigh 150 and have a 54 cm 650b Homer. I have
ridden it on a 600k brevet with PariMoto tires and it did great.  After I
converted my Ram to 650b (with 42 mm Hetres), I converted the Homer to my
deluxe commuter with rear rack etc. I find the Homer rides with some spring
and flex when I load it up with about 20 lbs of groceries/commute bags, so
I suppose if you weigh 170, the Homer could be ideal (although the weight
distribution would be different than with rear bags).

Much like the Sam, I think the Homer fits between the brevet/club bike and
the credit card tourer.  A wonderful bike no doubt!!

Toshi


On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 3:04 PM, William R.  wrote:

> That's awesome. I don't recall seeing that before. Get one if you can!
>
> Bill in Westchester, NY
>
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Re: [RBW] Mount Diablo trails ride

[René Sterental]

Is the link to join missing? Can't seem to find it...

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015,  wrote:

> Yeah absolutely, go check it out on the link below and feel free to post
> rides or join some roses. You'll need to request membership to keep the
> spammers out but I'll approve you right away.
>
> It's pretty small. I started it earlier in the year to meet up with local
> rivendell riders since there seems to be so many. Got a good core group of
> people on there, we get together once a month or so and have a few people
> that post a mix of paced, trail, and s240's. Mostly seems to be east and
> north bay but all are welcome across the bay and whatever bike you ride,
> rivendell or not.
>
> On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:09 PM, René Sterental  > wrote:
>
> What is this Bay Area Rivendell Riders Group? Is it open?
>
> René
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015, dstein  > wrote:
>
>> Oh whoops, I meant to post this in the Bay Area Rivendell Riders goggle
>> group which is a group I started so I wouldn't flood this one with regional
>> ride threads. I'll post over there and use that to reply with:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bay-area-rivendell-riders/fLkSjpDRcuU
>>
>> Neil - thanks for the pointers and if you're down I'm down. Check out the
>> other thread and we can work out logistics, I'm sure others will join.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 12:50:39 PM UTC-8, Neil wrote:
>>>
>>> Mitchell Canyon - Deer Flat - Devil's Elbow - Prospectors Gap is a
>>> classic dirt route. Lot's o' climbing, though. My recollection is that the
>>> only singletrack was Devil's Elbow and North Peak Trail...some exposure
>>> there, too...followed by crazy-fast FR descent on Prospectors Gap.
>>>
>>> I rode the Oyster Point loop years ago, and remember it being pretty
>>> fun. Kind of out of the way trailhead, but probably ideal for a mixed
>>> terrain ride where you ride out there from town. Not as much climbing over
>>> there, and I seem to recall quite a bit of singletrack. Not as many park
>>> users, either.
>>>
>>> I'd be down for this ride.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 9:26:06 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:

 Is anyone interested in riding some trails at Mt. Diablo or at least
 have some good recommendations?

 I have only ridden south gate and north gate roads to the top, but
 never any of the trails (outside of Shell Ridge and Diablo foothills
 Regional Park anyway).

 Would love get a group out there to hit some up. Maybe the 1st weekend
 of December depending on weather.

 I'm looking at three on Bay Area Rides: Mitchell Canyon to the top,
 Mothers/Diablo Ranch/Buckeye Trails, and Oyster Point trail. I'm assuming
 these are all fire roads?

 Let me know if anyone is interested or has some good routes.

>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Mount Diablo trails ride

[René Sterental]

Thanks!

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015,  wrote:

> Yeah absolutely, go check it out on the link below and feel free to post
> rides or join some roses. You'll need to request membership to keep the
> spammers out but I'll approve you right away.
>
> It's pretty small. I started it earlier in the year to meet up with local
> rivendell riders since there seems to be so many. Got a good core group of
> people on there, we get together once a month or so and have a few people
> that post a mix of paced, trail, and s240's. Mostly seems to be east and
> north bay but all are welcome across the bay and whatever bike you ride,
> rivendell or not.
>
> On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:09 PM, René Sterental  > wrote:
>
> What is this Bay Area Rivendell Riders Group? Is it open?
>
> René
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015, dstein  > wrote:
>
>> Oh whoops, I meant to post this in the Bay Area Rivendell Riders goggle
>> group which is a group I started so I wouldn't flood this one with regional
>> ride threads. I'll post over there and use that to reply with:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bay-area-rivendell-riders/fLkSjpDRcuU
>>
>> Neil - thanks for the pointers and if you're down I'm down. Check out the
>> other thread and we can work out logistics, I'm sure others will join.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 12:50:39 PM UTC-8, Neil wrote:
>>>
>>> Mitchell Canyon - Deer Flat - Devil's Elbow - Prospectors Gap is a
>>> classic dirt route. Lot's o' climbing, though. My recollection is that the
>>> only singletrack was Devil's Elbow and North Peak Trail...some exposure
>>> there, too...followed by crazy-fast FR descent on Prospectors Gap.
>>>
>>> I rode the Oyster Point loop years ago, and remember it being pretty
>>> fun. Kind of out of the way trailhead, but probably ideal for a mixed
>>> terrain ride where you ride out there from town. Not as much climbing over
>>> there, and I seem to recall quite a bit of singletrack. Not as many park
>>> users, either.
>>>
>>> I'd be down for this ride.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 9:26:06 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:

 Is anyone interested in riding some trails at Mt. Diablo or at least
 have some good recommendations?

 I have only ridden south gate and north gate roads to the top, but
 never any of the trails (outside of Shell Ridge and Diablo foothills
 Regional Park anyway).

 Would love get a group out there to hit some up. Maybe the 1st weekend
 of December depending on weather.

 I'm looking at three on Bay Area Rides: Mitchell Canyon to the top,
 Mothers/Diablo Ranch/Buckeye Trails, and Oyster Point trail. I'm assuming
 these are all fire roads?

 Let me know if anyone is interested or has some good routes.

>>> --
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[RBW] Re: 2x10 atlantis crankset options?

[mike gasparino]

Thanks gentleman! I actually ended up picking up a zephyr triple for a great 
price  but I will keep this info handy if I decide to move away from the trips!

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[RBW] WTB: Brooks C15 - Slate or Natural

[Johnny Alien]

I am looking to save a few bucks by buying used.  Anyone have a C15 in 
natural or slate they aren't using?

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[ted]

I have a 56 Homer I bought through this list. As others have said the AHH 
is a really lovely bike. Whether or not its what you are looking for may 
depend on what you mean when you say "springy" or "responsive flexible 
tubing". If you are wanting the flex of a standard tube diameter thin wall 
frame that some associate with "planing", then the Homer may not be for 
you. 

The AHH tubing is somewhat lighter than the Hillborne or Atlantis. I think 
mine weighs about 7lbs (frame, fork, headset and binder bolt), which I 
believe is about 1.5 lbs more than a Rodeo. Like other Riv's the tubes are 
"oversized". I think my bike is quite lively and very responsive, but I 
don't think the folks who wax on about planing and thin walled standard 
sized tubes would favor the AHH. 

I used to ride a late 70's Nobilette built frame with then standard sized 
531 tubes (still have it just don't ride it much). When jumping or climbing 
hard I believe I felt the frame flexing. I didn't really feel one way or 
the other about that. I really liked that bike.
My next frame was an ~1980 Gios that had a shorter wheelbase and short 
beefy stays. I was struck by how direct and immediate the connection 
between the pedals and the contact patch of the rear tire was, and I really 
liked that. The handling was also very precise and very responsive, which 
was kinda great (particularly riding crits and such). I immediately much 
preferred the Gios for the riding I was doing at the time, though it was 
kinda unforgiving and perhaps not so great (still have that bike too). 
When I got my Homer the first real ride I took had me thinking of Will 
Smith in 4th of July yelling "I have got to get me one of these". It was 
(and still is) comfy. It's handling was (and still is) responsive and 
precise without seeming the least bit twitchy, and the sense of immediate 
and direct connection between pushing on the pedals and the bike jumping 
foreword was (and still is) every bit as strong and solid as the Gios. 
Since I changed tires from 32s to 42s the handling seems a bit more stable 
or slightly less quick but I still like it a lot. The next tires I buy for 
it will probably be 38s.

I frequently ride with a group in which my AHH is the only non MCFRB. 
Sometimes one of the guys will say its amazing what I can do on that bike. 
I tell them the bike is not a handicap, though my fat belly is. I also ride 
it wherever I want. Paved roads, fire roads, wide trails, single track. The 
MCFRB guys I ride with seem unwilling to venture off the pavement on those 
bikes. Once when I said I had ridden a route they were saying you couldn't 
do on a road bike the response was "yea but that bike goes anywhere".



On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:40 AM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Many other Rivs get a lot of press here, but I really haven't heard much 
> on the Homer. Curious about the ride of this bike - it's liveliness as 
> compared to an Atlantis or Hillborne. Is its tubing relatively lighter? Is 
> it a softer feel? Is it more beautiful?
>
> Considering one as my all round dirt road bike and looking for something 
> springy with centerpulls and clearance for 38s with fenders.  
>

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:09:43 PM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your considered ideas on this bike - its great to hear 
> more about it. 
>
> I'm considering it among the Riv lineup as a potential dirt road 
> randonneuring/pass hunting bike. I live and ride at the top of VT in the 
> Northeast Kingdom - if you look at a map, there aren't really any major 
> roads. Its a very rural area, I'm sure there aren't any other Riv bikes, 
> and every ride I do is 95% dirt road. I want something that works well with 
> a front load (15 lbs. or so) and has responsive, flexible tubing. I'm long 
> and lean at 6' 3", 175 lbs. 
>
> I'm attracted to the Homer because it seems like it might be the bike in 
> Riv's lineup that has the lightest tubing for a bike with good tire 
> clearances ( at least 38 is mandatory for the roads I ride) and center 
> pulls.
>
> Any other ideas? If I want a Riv, is this the bike for me? 
>
> With a PBH of 90, should I go for the 61 or the 63?
>
> Thanks folks. Always wonderful having the list's input.
>
> On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 6:33:17 PM UTC-5, ttoshi wrote:
>>
>> I have a Homer, Ram (650b for brevets) and a Roadeo, so I am leaning to 
>> the lively side of Riv bikes. I weigh 150 and have a 54 cm 650b Homer. I 
>> have ridden it on a 600k brevet with PariMoto tires and it did great.  
>> After I converted my Ram to 650b (with 42 mm Hetres), I converted the Homer 
>> to my deluxe commuter with rear rack etc. I find the Homer rides with some 
>> spring and flex when I load it up with about 20 lbs of groceries/commute 
>> bags, so I suppose if you weigh 170, the Homer could be ideal (although the 
>> weight distribution would be different than with rear bags).
>>
>> Much like the Sam, I think the 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Liesl]

Okay here's some stabs at dates with models added. If you have one of these and 
we're an early "I trust 'em" adopter, fill in/correct a year?

Riv Road
Riv All Arounder (?)
LongLow
CantiRom
Redwood
Heron
Atlantis
Romulus
Quickbeam 2004
Ramboulliet
Saluki 2005
Wilbury/Glorious 2005
Homer 2006
bleriot 2007
Sam
bombadil
Legolas
Hunq
Rodeo
Simpleone
Betty/Yves
mystery bike 2013
cheviot 2014
clem/clementine 2015
joe appaloosa 2016

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Liesl]

Rodeo 2010 (as per RR 42)

Sam Hilborne, 2009 (as per RR 41)

Hunq, simpleOne, bomba, Betty/yves all listed in 2011 RR 43

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Steve Palincsar]

Well, I got my 1st batch orange Rambouillet in 2002.

On 11/12/2015 07:42 PM, Liesl wrote:

Okay here's some stabs at dates with models added. If you have one of these and we're an 
early "I trust 'em" adopter, fill in/correct a year?

Riv Road
Riv All Arounder (?)
LongLow
CantiRom
Redwood
Heron
Atlantis
Romulus
Quickbeam 2004
Ramboulliet
Saluki 2005
Wilbury/Glorious 2005
Homer 2006
bleriot 2007
Sam
bombadil
Legolas
Hunq
Rodeo
Simpleone
Betty/Yves
mystery bike 2013
cheviot 2014
clem/clementine 2015
joe appaloosa 2016



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[RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[William R.]

That's awesome. I don't recall seeing that before. Get one if you can!

Bill in Westchester, NY

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[RBW] Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Liesl]

I'd love a thread that could end up with a list of models and the year they 
were introduced (and last year produced if no longer).  Don't feel like 
we've done that before.  (If so, just point me to the thread...)

Here's fodder...

Riv Road
Riv All Arounder (?)
Heron
Atlantis
Romulus
Quickbeam
Ramboulliet
Saluki
Wilbury/Glorious
Homer 
bleriot
Sam
bombadil
Hunq
Rodeo
Simpleone
Betty/Yves
mystery bike
cheviot
clem/clementine
joe appaloosa


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[RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Liesl]

thank heavens for cyclofiend's riv pages!

homer introduced in 2006 as a big frame/700 wheel
Saluki rolled into the homer line in 2008

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[RBW] Re: Clem Geometry

[iamkeith]

This is kind of interesting.  Thinking about Liesl's current attempt at 
model chronology thread, I browsed over to the cyclofiend archives and 
found the following.   It's some notes by Grant, from way back in 2009, 
discussing the pending move to "expanded" frame sizing, sloped top tubes, 
and the introduction of some cheaper production models.   Pretty close to 
what actually transpired.   

 http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/#riv09

The thing that caught my eye though, is the part about size increments and 
their intended fit range.   Turns out I'm NOT crazy or paranoid in thinking 
my size was mysteriously deleted  :-)   Also explains why so many people, 
who had been harboring doubts, are currently reporting how surprised and 
happy they are with the fit of their Clems as they arrive :

The concepts are: Cheap Quickbeam, cheap A. Homer/Saluki, cheap Atlantis, 
and cheap Mixte. The plan is four sizes each: 48-52-56-60, all with 6-deg 
upsloping top tubes (like Bombadil), so each size will fit a wider rage of 
leglengths/riders.

I say "cheap," but the quality will be the same as the Bleriot. Made in 
Taiwan. Our lugs, crowns, bb shells, tube pick, 'ame & 'phics, all that. 
Probably they'll be one-color (no cream head tube), and m-m-may retail for 
$700 or a hair less (not $699.99!)


*New RIV bike geos and fits: *
The 48 will fit like a horizontal top tube (htt) of a 51 or to to 56 or so. 
The 52, like a 53 to 60; the 56, like a 57 to 63 or so, and the 60, like a 
62 to about-how-we-say-a 66. The explanation is simple, and it is: The top 
tube slopes UP from the seat lug, NOT down from the head tube. So front-end 
height is easily had. If you're on the small end of a new bike size, you'll 
probably sink the stem in deep---an odd thing for most Rivvies (I think 
that's a Beth Hamon term, not sure), but with the SU (sloping UP) top tubes 
(TT), it makes sense. Saddle height is never a problem, not with today's 
500mm seat posts.

So...the new sizes will fit a gigantic range of riders, all with four sizes.

I know the SUTT's don't have that Stradivarius look, but the goal of these 
new bikes is to make solid, fantastic, versatile, comfortable, lugged steel 
bicycles affordable to more people; to make it easier to buy (for instance) 
an Atlantis-style bike (touring) even if you can't justify a $3,000 real 
one because you aren't a full-time wealthy vagabond. Our bikes have a 
certain look, and these will too. But the function and the sense of the 
SUTT seems appropriate for the new bikes, and I think it's good to apply a 
different Aesthetic Yardstick to a $700 frame than to one that costs twice 
or more of that.


...The SUTT is only 6-degrees, or about four more degrees than our current 
bikes. It is the same as the BOMBADIL, which you can see on our site. So: 
I'm a fan of these bikes even before they're here. Of course, on one hand I 
have to be. But on the other hand, we're the force behind them---they 
aren't being forced on us, and now we gotta defend them. Not at all. I'm 
really excited about them.

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[RBW] New bike day!

[Anne Paulson]

My son's beautiful new Clem is now sitting in our garage, waiting for
me to put the rack, fenders and lights on it. It's a big tall bike.
It's the first bike we've had in the family where we had to remove the
front wheel before we put it in the car: even my and my son's tandem
bike just rolled right in with both wheels on-- but then, he was four
years old when we got the tandem, so it was a good deal shorter. Those
big wide upright handlebars for a 6'4" guy take up a lot of space.

Love the mossy green. Subdued, but attractive. The spoke nipples are fantastic.

And the Riv visit was more fun than ever. There were quite a few Clems
sitting out on the floor. Not sure if they're testers, or somebody's
bikes not shipped, or what.

In other news, it turns out that if you have disc brakes on your bike,
it's not a good idea to wear out the pads entirely and try to stop the
bike metal fitting on metal rotor. I'm just sayin'.

-- 
-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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[RBW] Re: This wheelset whadayathink? Y/N?

[drew]

thanks all. seems like i should go for it.  i mean, i saved money not 
buying a clem or joe, right? as always, your expertise is appreciated. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[iamkeith]

LongLow
Canti-rom
Redwood


On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:38:24 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Add Legolas

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[RBW] Re: This wheelset whadayathink? Y/N?

[Kieran J]

Sometime that same seller runs a no-reserve auction for these Dyad and A719 
wheelsets. Sometimes they go for peanuts!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Shimano-XT-T780-Velocity-Dyad-36-Hole-700c-Touring-Commuting-Wheelset-Silver-/262128569183?hash=item3d08148b5f:g:wh0AAOSwv0tU98tl

Just sayin' !

KJ



On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 5:38:22 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>
> thanks all. seems like i should go for it.  i mean, i saved money not 
> buying a clem or joe, right? as always, your expertise is appreciated. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Redlands Strada Sterrata - Saturday 11/14

[Tony DeFilippo]

Wish I could join in, looks like a great route and I like the focus on 
where you're getting your caffeine and calories!  I'm glad 'goatheads' are 
not a problem for me, sounds like a pita.







































































































































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[RBW] The Mysterious Homer

[Tony DeFilippo]

Everyone with Homers/Salukis are just out riding! ;). 

I don't know about smoother or more beautiful, Riv does a good job describing 
the frame on their own site.  One way you could look at it is that it's the 
design niche Riv has left alone for the most part since it has been introduced. 
 It's their 'hi end' Country Bike, roadish - but dirt capable, fastish -but 
light tour capable, and of course the classic good looks.

Back in Oct when Pondero made his DC visit and we met up on the C towpath we 
had 5 saluki's or Homer's out of 6-7 Riv's if I'm remembering correctly, and it 
would have been 6 if Pudge had brought his as well...

Mine is set up upright and racked/bagged for commuting and it is likely to 
remain my primary commuter for a very long time.  It's smooth and gorgeous and 
all around extremely neutral in its handling.  I think it's my 'best' bike.  I 
think if 38mm/fenders or 42ish w/o works for you and you like the styling 
you'll be extremely happy with a Homer.

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[RBW] Re: Kingsport library canti-Romulus sighting

[Leslie]

Hi Jon!

Will meet up soon...   :)   

Best,

-L

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 12:07:32 PM UTC-5, jtallman wrote:
>
> Hello Leslie - the Romulus you saw had to be mine. I work at the library 
> and did not come down to get it until quitting time, so you might have had 
> a long wait.
>
> I added some fenders to it over the weekend and the tires you saw, which 
> were SwiftTire Sand Canyon 27'' tires, will not clear the rear fender. Now 
> it has Jack Brown Greens.
>
> Hope to see your Romulus sometime as well,
>
> Jon Tallman
>
>
> On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 10:47:48 AM UTC-5, Leslie wrote:
>>
>> So, unlike the SF Bay area, there aren't as many Rivendells around 
>> here.   Thanks to MSL in Bristol, there's several, tho'...  I usually see 
>> them on the Creeper, or at Steele Creek;   in Kingsport itself, other than 
>> my own, I've only seen one other Rivendell, was a Quickbeam out on our 
>> Greenbelt. 
>>
>> Until, Thursday, long crazy day that's a whole other story, but I found 
>> myself in downtown Kingsport that afternoon, canvasing the area by bike for 
>> hours.   While riding around the downtown area, on my canti-Rom, what did I 
>> find parked outside of the library, but, another canti-Rom.   My older 
>> daughter just happened to meet me in the downtown area at the library when 
>> I was arriving, and although she's not a 'bike person', even she noticed, 
>> "wow, that bike is *exactly* like your bike, eerily so!".   Of course, 
>> being a canti-Rom, it was the same light blue, but this one had a Selle 
>> Anatomica whereas mine are all Brooks, my tires were a lot larger (I'm 
>> pushing it, running MSO's, whereas this one has sensible 32's on it)... It 
>> was undecaled, the Romulus downtube decal had been removed, but, if you 
>> knew what you were looking at, it was unmistakable that it was the same 
>> frame as mine.
>>
>> I didn't think it good form to go into the library hollerin' out, who's 
>> on the Ram, and I still had a lot of ground to cover, couldn't just wait 
>> and see who came out.
>>  
>> Anywho, just wondering if there's someone else in Kingsport here on the 
>> list, that I'd not known about  just reaching out to say hello 
>>
>>
>>
>> -L
>>
>>

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[RBW] The Mysterious Homer

[Daniel Jackson]

Many other Rivs get a lot of press here, but I really haven't heard much on the 
Homer. Curious about the ride of this bike - it's liveliness as compared to an 
Atlantis or Hillborne. Is its tubing relatively lighter? Is it a softer feel? 
Is it more beautiful?

Considering one as my all round dirt road bike and looking for something 
springy with centerpulls and clearance for 38s with fenders.  

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Tony DeFilippo]

Ryan that sounds great! Maybe early the week of thanksgiving...  I'll hit you 
up off list.  I also have to figure  out how to ask my wife to borrow her new 
ride for a day! :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Richard Sachs

[cyclotourist]

Here is an article I coincidentally stumbled across this weekend from
a 1990 interview. Scanned for your viewing pleasure:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6nHVOVjcpYKSUZvT0tITUZmenVsYWF5dHBLUXk1RnVIT0dB/view


On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Michael Flournoy
 wrote:
>
> A few years ago NAHBS was in Richmond where I live and on a lark and knowing
> nothing about Hand Built Bikes I went. In the middle of all these
> beautifully displayed bikes was 4 or 5 red ones covered in mud. So I asked
> the guy standing there " whats up with that? ". And as if he'd never heard
> the question before, he very patiently explained that he wanted to show off
> what they were good for and that they " at least in in his opinion " looked
> best with a little mud honestly earned caked on them. He explained what
> cyclocross was and that you didn't really need a special bike to do it but
> if you could afford it, what the heck why not? A very laid back and genuine
> guy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] New bike day!

[cyclotourist]

Well, stopping is good, if that's your priority!

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Anne Paulson  wrote:
> No pics yet.
>
> You actually can brake with no brake pads, if you aren't picky about
> whether you will need to replace a rotor afterwards. The bike will
> stop. Rider is fine. Those Magura hydraulic brakes were going to be
> replaced anyway. I love the way they stop the bike (when they have
> brake pads) but I do not love the fact that few mechanics know how to
> work on them.
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 6:57 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
>> Pics?
>>
>> And how is the rider and the bike after the disc brake instructional 
>> experience?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Anne Paulson  wrote:
>>> My son's beautiful new Clem is now sitting in our garage, waiting for
>>> me to put the rack, fenders and lights on it. It's a big tall bike.
>>> It's the first bike we've had in the family where we had to remove the
>>> front wheel before we put it in the car: even my and my son's tandem
>>> bike just rolled right in with both wheels on-- but then, he was four
>>> years old when we got the tandem, so it was a good deal shorter. Those
>>> big wide upright handlebars for a 6'4" guy take up a lot of space.
>>>
>>> Love the mossy green. Subdued, but attractive. The spoke nipples are 
>>> fantastic.
>>>
>>> And the Riv visit was more fun than ever. There were quite a few Clems
>>> sitting out on the floor. Not sure if they're testers, or somebody's
>>> bikes not shipped, or what.
>>>
>>> In other news, it turns out that if you have disc brakes on your bike,
>>> it's not a good idea to wear out the pads entirely and try to stop the
>>> bike metal fitting on metal rotor. I'm just sayin'.
>>>
>>> --
>>> -- Anne Paulson
>>>
>>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
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David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: What length Silver Cranks came on your Clem?

[Jim Bronson]

Because 172.5 just isn't qite long enough

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 173. That's awesome.
>
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Re: [RBW] New bike day!

[Anne Paulson]

No pics yet.

You actually can brake with no brake pads, if you aren't picky about
whether you will need to replace a rotor afterwards. The bike will
stop. Rider is fine. Those Magura hydraulic brakes were going to be
replaced anyway. I love the way they stop the bike (when they have
brake pads) but I do not love the fact that few mechanics know how to
work on them.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 6:57 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Pics?
>
> And how is the rider and the bike after the disc brake instructional 
> experience?
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Anne Paulson  wrote:
>> My son's beautiful new Clem is now sitting in our garage, waiting for
>> me to put the rack, fenders and lights on it. It's a big tall bike.
>> It's the first bike we've had in the family where we had to remove the
>> front wheel before we put it in the car: even my and my son's tandem
>> bike just rolled right in with both wheels on-- but then, he was four
>> years old when we got the tandem, so it was a good deal shorter. Those
>> big wide upright handlebars for a 6'4" guy take up a lot of space.
>>
>> Love the mossy green. Subdued, but attractive. The spoke nipples are 
>> fantastic.
>>
>> And the Riv visit was more fun than ever. There were quite a few Clems
>> sitting out on the floor. Not sure if they're testers, or somebody's
>> bikes not shipped, or what.
>>
>> In other news, it turns out that if you have disc brakes on your bike,
>> it's not a good idea to wear out the pads entirely and try to stop the
>> bike metal fitting on metal rotor. I'm just sayin'.
>>
>> --
>> -- Anne Paulson
>>
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
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It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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[RBW] Re: What length Silver Cranks came on your Clem?

[David Banzer]

I think there was a Blug post at some point about the crank arm lengths - 
basically since they were have them made from a new design they could 
choose any length they wanted, hence the non-standard lengths.
David
Chicago

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 2:10:47 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I'm curious what length crankarms Riv is shipping on the Complete Clems. 
>  What size bike did you receive, and what crank arm length did you get?  I 
> assume the Silver cranks, like most other cranks, say the crank arm length 
> on the inner surface of either crank arm.  Jan Heine and his most devoted 
> followers think that crank arm length is overblown, and that everyone in 
> the "normal" range of heights can use 170mm arms.  Only the SUPER tall who 
> need >200s and the super short who need <150s should be asking for 
> different sizes ATJO (According To Jan's Opinion).  Grant is more on the 
> proportional size kick.  Wheelsize should be proportional to bike size 
> which is proportional to person-size. 
>
> So, did the Clem get spec'd kind of one-size-fits-all with respect to 
> crank arm length?  Or did they get set up proportionally?  I'm eager to 
> know.  It might be a preview for what I receive on my Joe Appaloosa.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Spanninga on hammered fender? Does it sit right?

[Tim Gavin]

I'm going to try a B Secula Plus

.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Anton Tutter  wrote:

> Yes, I forgot about this. Spanninga uses a weird connector that was
> designed to let you use bare stripped wires, but it pinches them against
> the fender.
>
> Anton
>
> velolumino.com
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 7:06:38 PM UTC-5, Don Funke wrote:
>>
>> You may need to take the light apart and solder the contacts for the
>> light to fit flush against the fender. It's a hassle, but I had to go that
>> route.
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 2:56:08 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:
>>>
>>> Before I cut holes into a Honjo fender, does the Spaninga even sit right
>>> against the hammered contours, or is it a no go?
>>>
>>> Can you get it to sit flush or do the contours make it sit other than
>>> optimal? Don't want to stress the fender.
>>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: Crankset Advice

[Garth]

   John, The 901D(D for double) is designed as a double only. If you look 
at the links I posted below to Johnny you can see the photos of it on both 
sides. The Riv pdf shows it as a triple with the IRD Triplizer ring , which 
bikemania.biz apparently offers as the 801T(T for triple) in a 48/36/24 or 
46/34/24.
http://www.bikemania.biz/sugino-mighty-tour-801t-triple-crankset.html

Odd though as I have seen this from Japanese websites as the 801T but with 
the triple attached directly to the arms .  Maybe they do still make it or 
they once did. I do not know , but here's the photo . 
http://page16.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u84827566#enlargeimg



On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:09:52 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>
> Does the Sugino 901d come as a triple with holes on the inner crank/spider 
> for a small bolt-on inner chainring?  (I'm afraid I'm a bit immured in the 
> past and not up on current matters.  Currently, I have as triples on road 
> bikes are a Stronglight 99 and a Campy Nuovo Record, though I will put a 
> T-A. Cyclo Tourist/Pro Vis I have on a bike.) 
>
> Thank you in advance. 
>
> John Taglia

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[RBW] Re: Crankset Advice

[Johnny Alien]

The crank in the Riv PDF is the original Alpina not the Mighty Tour 
correct?  It seems like at the time Sugino was tossing around using the 
Mighty Tour name but the PDF mentions it's called the Cospea in Japan and 
that was definitely what they called the original Alpina crank.  Maybe the 
new Might Tour is just the original Alpina now?  The Alpina 2 is not the 
same as the original Alpina.

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 8:56:40 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
>John, The 901D(D for double) is designed as a double only. If you look 
> at the links I posted below to Johnny you can see the photos of it on both 
> sides. The Riv pdf shows it as a triple with the IRD Triplizer ring , which 
> bikemania.biz apparently offers as the 801T(T for triple) in a 48/36/24 
> or 46/34/24.
> http://www.bikemania.biz/sugino-mighty-tour-801t-triple-crankset.html
>
> Odd though as I have seen this from Japanese websites as the 801T but with 
> the triple attached directly to the arms .  Maybe they do still make it or 
> they once did. I do not know , but here's the photo . 
> http://page16.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u84827566#enlargeimg
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:09:52 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>>
>> Does the Sugino 901d come as a triple with holes on the inner 
>> crank/spider for a small bolt-on inner chainring?  (I'm afraid I'm a bit 
>> immured in the past and not up on current matters.  Currently, I have as 
>> triples on road bikes are a Stronglight 99 and a Campy Nuovo Record, though 
>> I will put a T-A. Cyclo Tourist/Pro Vis I have on a bike.) 
>>
>> Thank you in advance. 
>>
>> John Taglia
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Love the Rambo

[Mark Wilkins]

+1

I recently went through a similar overhaul with my 2005 Blue Ram.  It
was stolen back in December, then recovered (by me) in June when I
noticed it locked to a bike rack in downtown Harrisburg, PA.  I
completely disassembled the bike (except for the BB), cleaned every
single part, replaced cables, chain, brake shoes, headset bearings,
tires, tubes, tape, twine, etc.

There's a scratch on the top tube that wasn't there before it was
stolen; I'm assuming whoever had it had chained it up to a pole
somewhere. Every time I see that scratch, I'm reminded how happy I am
to have the bike back, and how much it means to me.

Mark


On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Lawnsbyt  wrote:
> Just wanted to share how awesome the Rambouillet is.  I just had mine
> completely overhauled by a pro bike shop, including a remarkable cleaning of
> every part, nook and cranny.  Not only is it beautiful, but is sure rides
> like a dream.  Feels new again, brakes are crisp, shifting is
> click-er-iffic, eeks style whether I'm plodding along or pushing up a hill.
> I've had her for about 6 years, the 2nd owner in the Seattle area. I've got
> my fair share of knicks and chips, but it just adds to the history and
> reminds me of all the miles I've enjoyed. Here's a pict of my first ride
> during this morning's commute following the overhaul.  Smooth rolling all...
> Tom.
>
>
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[RBW] Re: I rode my Clem yesterday...

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I might be interested in the Trek 850, depending on size, price and model 
year.  I'll watch for any announcements you post.  



On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 12:13:49 PM UTC-6, David Banzer wrote:
>
> Finally sort of got my Clem built up - I was itching to ride it but had 
> been slowly building it up a couple parts at a time each day. Ended up not 
> running a shifter and adjusting the rear derailleur to the 3rd cog in - so 
> a single speed right now.
> No photos as it got too dark.
> As far as the ride - WOW! It's wonderful. I was skeptical about the 59cm 
> fitting my at 6'4", but it most certainly does. With the sloping top tube, 
> the headtube ends up quite a bit higher than a level top-tubed 64cm bike, 
> and about the same as my 65cm Redwood.
> The 64-ish cm top tube fits the bike perfectly for me. I finally have a 
> frame that correctly fit Albatross bars for me - I'm shorter legged for my 
> height, long torso. 
> The super long chainstays are wonderful, in that I didn't notice them 
> handling-wise like I thought I would. It took me a bit to realize how much 
> they actually smooth out bumps as well.
> As far as the laid-back cruiser, it certainly can be, but it certainly can 
> be zippy if you want it to. Mine has Albatross bars a couple inches above 
> saddle height, with a 12cm reach stem. Definitely can accommodate 
> Albastache bars, but I'm perfectly content with what I have.
> As far as the shifter goes, I was going to do a single thumb shifter in 
> front of brake levers, inboard as Riv sets up the completes, but really 
> like the portion in front of the brake lever, right before the bend, on the 
> Albatross, and may run a bar-end shifter, but am sort of thinking of just 
> putting the thumb shifter on the stem and calling it a day. 
> I'm actually now seriously considering getting rid of a couple nice 
> vintage tall frames (Trek 850, 620) as I see the Clem taking over most 
> duties on and off paved roads.
> Will try and get some photos tonight, but most likely will be this weekend.
> David
> Chicago
>

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[RBW] Re: Redlands Strada Sterrata - Saturday 11/14

[cyclotour...@gmail.com]

Goatheads are the worst if you have regular tires. But if taking 
precautions not that big of a deal.

But yes, why organize a ride if food and beverage aren't your first 
priority???

I hope this will be a great ride. It mixes all kinds of dirt terrain 
together. That's really what all my riding has been lately. So I tried to 
put it all together in one grand loop. 40 miles of dirt isn't the longest 
ride in the world, but it's definitely tougher than most our rides. Trying 
to make it worth the drive out here!!!
 

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:27:44 AM UTC-8, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> Wish I could join in, looks like a great route and I like the focus on 
> where you're getting your caffeine and calories!  I'm glad 'goatheads' are 
> not a problem for me, sounds like a pita.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Eric Daume]

There was a Riv mountain bike at the same time as the original road and AR
models.
On Nov 12, 2015 7:42 PM, "Liesl"  wrote:

> Okay here's some stabs at dates with models added. If you have one of
> these and we're an early "I trust 'em" adopter, fill in/correct a year?
>
> Riv Road
> Riv All Arounder (?)
> LongLow
> CantiRom
> Redwood
> Heron
> Atlantis
> Romulus
> Quickbeam 2004
> Ramboulliet
> Saluki 2005
> Wilbury/Glorious 2005
> Homer 2006
> bleriot 2007
> Sam
> bombadil
> Legolas
> Hunq
> Rodeo
> Simpleone
> Betty/Yves
> mystery bike 2013
> cheviot 2014
> clem/clementine 2015
> joe appaloosa 2016
>
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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Zed. I do the electric thing with my cygo too. Even with the double 
bit of rubber it is too loose on most every bar. I don't get why they make 
it like that. But getting down to rack diameters...wish these light 
companies would make a better range of interchangeable mounts.

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 10:37:49 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> Mark, it's just a Cygolite OSP with external pack, a discontinued model 
> (picked it up on clearance at some point for peanuts) but I think the 
> Mitycross line is the same stuff. It's just a handlebar mount, but even 
> with the provided padding I couldn't quite get it tight enough so I just 
> used some electrical tape to help me wrap another thin piece of rubber 
> padding from some other light mount around to make the tubing a fatter 
> diameter there. After a couple of rounds of trial and error I got just the 
> right fatness for the clamp to catch properly. It's more secure than it 
> looks like it oughtta be, Then I just strap the pack to the front of the 
> rack on the underside. Like this:
>
>
> 
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 10:09:33 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> Zed, what is the light you are using here? How is it clamping to rack 
>> diameter tubing? Thanks!
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 11:00:28 AM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's a shot of the final setup regarding that:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] New bike day!

[cyclotourist]

Pics?

And how is the rider and the bike after the disc brake instructional experience?

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Anne Paulson  wrote:
> My son's beautiful new Clem is now sitting in our garage, waiting for
> me to put the rack, fenders and lights on it. It's a big tall bike.
> It's the first bike we've had in the family where we had to remove the
> front wheel before we put it in the car: even my and my son's tandem
> bike just rolled right in with both wheels on-- but then, he was four
> years old when we got the tandem, so it was a good deal shorter. Those
> big wide upright handlebars for a 6'4" guy take up a lot of space.
>
> Love the mossy green. Subdued, but attractive. The spoke nipples are 
> fantastic.
>
> And the Riv visit was more fun than ever. There were quite a few Clems
> sitting out on the floor. Not sure if they're testers, or somebody's
> bikes not shipped, or what.
>
> In other news, it turns out that if you have disc brakes on your bike,
> it's not a good idea to wear out the pads entirely and try to stop the
> bike metal fitting on metal rotor. I'm just sayin'.
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
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-- 
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[RDS]

What width tires comes stock on the complete Clem size 52?

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>
> I was just curious to see how all of the colors turned out for each 
> model.  Please, let's see some pics whether bike or frame.
>

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[RBW] Re: 2x10 atlantis crankset options?

[Mark Reimer]

Hi Mike,

Glad to share my experience as I had a bit of a difficult time figuring 
this out myself. 

I have White Industries VBC Road cranks. Originally I had the mountain/ENO 
cranks, but the limiting factor is chainring clearance, not crank 
clearance, so if you haven't bought any yet do yourself a favour and get 
the lower Q-factor road cranks.

I'm running a 44/26. Originally it was 44/30 which works fine, but I 
dropped to a smaller inner ring before touring in the mountains. Rear 
cassette is a 10-speed 11-36. I find this is just about perfect. I never 
use the 44x11, even flying down paved mountain descents. 44x12 gets a tiny 
bit of use. Maybe a couple of times after really long hard days I wished 
for just a tiny bit lower of a gear than 26x36, but again, that's after 100 
miles a few days in a row. 

I'm using a Phil Wood BB. 119mm. I bought an offset BB but then pulled the 
spindle over so it was centered. Just did that because at the time it was 
hard to find a symmetrical 119. I think I could maybe go 1 or 2mm shorter, 
but I doubt it'd be a good idea. Might need to offset the spindle for 
proper chainring clearance. I suggest 119mm.

You can see the evidence of chain-suck on the chain stay. It was like that 
when I bought the frame used, but I've dropped the chain in there twice 
myself. Common Atlantis problem apparently, though it hasn't happened to me 
in about a year of daily riding. Maybe it's a shifting technique, not sure. 

You'll also notice I have a Sugino inner ring - picked it up from Riv a 
while back. $20 bucks. White VBC can use ANY 5-bolt inner ring FYI. Nice 
way to experiment with sizes and save money. 




On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 5:31:12 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> What ring sizes will you be using?
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 3:11:04 PM UTC-8, mike gasparino wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>> building up a 2x10 atlantis and looking for recommendations for a double 
>> crankset. I know with the bowed out chain stays the clearance is an issue. 
>> I would love to use the following cranks (WI VBC, TA cyclotouriste, velo 
>> orange, etc. Oh and if anyone has used any of them, what spindle length bb 
>> did you use. Please help get me on the road!
>>
>> Michael
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[jandrews_nyc]

>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sam Hillborne Frame Size 55 (Blue/Cream) - LIKE NEW - (frame/fork/headset/BB/seat post)

[RDS]

I will leave this listing in the RBW Onwer's bunch a few more days.  I will 
listen to any offer's as I have a Clem on the way.
I will ship to the 48 US States using www.shipbikes.com service.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 9:36:23 AM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>
> Last week I purchased a Blue/Cream 55 Hillborne Frame from one of Riv's 
> dealers in New York (Yellow Haus - very impressed with them).  I am on the 
> borderline between sizes and the sizing just didn't work out as planned.  I 
> am so bummed out as it is a beautiful frame.  The bike has been partially 
> built, but never ridden.
>
> *As I received it, included is the frame, fork, headset, BB (107), and 
> seatpost.  I should have some pics available tomorrow.  *
>
> I installed the fork, BB (not the one that came with the frame), seatpost 
> (not the one that came with the frame), stem with bars, and wheels.  Then I 
> stood over the bike checking the sizing, etc and came to the depressing 
> realization that this frame was not going to work for me.  Depressing.  I 
> DID NOT install a crank or derailer's or brakes or any cables.  I just did 
> enough to see how the sizing would work.  I installed the BB in 
> anticipation of it fitting.  I will disassemble what I have done and 
> attempt to ship it as it was shipped to me. 
>
> *I realize that I will have to take a loss on the frame.  I paid $1,300 
> plus shipping.  I am willing to sell it for $1,100 and I will pay for 
> shipping.  I will only sell and ship to the USA 48 contiguous states.  
> Paypal for payment.*
>
> I had also purchased a set of the Tektro R559 recessed brakes for this 
> frame.  I will sell them for an additional $25 if interested.
>

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[RBW] Re: 2x10 atlantis crankset options?

[Mark Reimer]

Here is a photo of the crank and large chainring clearance using the 119mm 
Phil BB and White VBC Road cranks. 






On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 9:32:23 AM UTC-6, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Glad to share my experience as I had a bit of a difficult time figuring 
> this out myself. 
>
> I have White Industries VBC Road cranks. Originally I had the mountain/ENO 
> cranks, but the limiting factor is chainring clearance, not crank 
> clearance, so if you haven't bought any yet do yourself a favour and get 
> the lower Q-factor road cranks.
>
> I'm running a 44/26. Originally it was 44/30 which works fine, but I 
> dropped to a smaller inner ring before touring in the mountains. Rear 
> cassette is a 10-speed 11-36. I find this is just about perfect. I never 
> use the 44x11, even flying down paved mountain descents. 44x12 gets a tiny 
> bit of use. Maybe a couple of times after really long hard days I wished 
> for just a tiny bit lower of a gear than 26x36, but again, that's after 100 
> miles a few days in a row. 
>
> I'm using a Phil Wood BB. 119mm. I bought an offset BB but then pulled the 
> spindle over so it was centered. Just did that because at the time it was 
> hard to find a symmetrical 119. I think I could maybe go 1 or 2mm shorter, 
> but I doubt it'd be a good idea. Might need to offset the spindle for 
> proper chainring clearance. I suggest 119mm.
>
> You can see the evidence of chain-suck on the chain stay. It was like that 
> when I bought the frame used, but I've dropped the chain in there twice 
> myself. Common Atlantis problem apparently, though it hasn't happened to me 
> in about a year of daily riding. Maybe it's a shifting technique, not sure. 
>
> You'll also notice I have a Sugino inner ring - picked it up from Riv a 
> while back. $20 bucks. White VBC can use ANY 5-bolt inner ring FYI. Nice 
> way to experiment with sizes and save money. 
>
>
> 
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 5:31:12 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> What ring sizes will you be using?
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 3:11:04 PM UTC-8, mike gasparino wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>> building up a 2x10 atlantis and looking for recommendations for a double 
>>> crankset. I know with the bowed out chain stays the clearance is an issue. 
>>> I would love to use the following cranks (WI VBC, TA cyclotouriste, velo 
>>> orange, etc. Oh and if anyone has used any of them, what spindle length bb 
>>> did you use. Please help get me on the road!
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset Advice

[Garth]

Johnny,   The crank in the riv pdf is indeed the 901D/Mighty Tour and 
not the Cospea/Alpina . 
Here are 2 Cospea/Alpina images :
 
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_C1XrRVl3W8k/SIYJnSfEG9I/FOE/J-DOXrw7I4o/s1600/Sugino%2BAlpina.jpg
http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images3/cc286-3crank.jpg

Compare it closely to the Mighty Tour 901D and you will see the differences 
clearly.   The Riv pdf is from a number of years ago . The Mighty Tour is 
also made from 2000 series Al which has a higher fatigue life. I don't know 
what Al the Cospea is made from , but the Alpina 2 is 6061 Al. 

The Alpina 2 appears to be the same mold as the Cospea/Alpina visually. 
Detailed pics of the backside of the Cospea I have not been able to find to 
know the differences in finish there . The Alpina 2 is like the XD in that 
the anodising is not complete on the backside and I don't know the finish 
on the Cospea backside to compare. 

enlarge the pics here of the Alpina 2 to compare
 
http://www.bikerecyclery.com/new-sugino-alpina-2-triple-crankset-9-10-speed-170mm-48-36-24t/
 




On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 9:30:00 AM UTC-5, Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> The crank in the Riv PDF is the original Alpina not the Mighty Tour 
> correct?  It seems like at the time Sugino was tossing around using the 
> Mighty Tour name but the PDF mentions it's called the Cospea in Japan and 
> that was definitely what they called the original Alpina crank.  Maybe the 
> new Might Tour is just the original Alpina now?  The Alpina 2 is not the 
> same as the original Alpina.
>
> On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 8:56:40 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>>
>>John, The 901D(D for double) is designed as a double only. If you look 
>> at the links I posted below to Johnny you can see the photos of it on both 
>> sides. The Riv pdf shows it as a triple with the IRD Triplizer ring , which 
>> bikemania.biz apparently offers as the 801T(T for triple) in a 48/36/24 
>> or 46/34/24.
>> http://www.bikemania.biz/sugino-mighty-tour-801t-triple-crankset.html
>>
>> Odd though as I have seen this from Japanese websites as the 801T but 
>> with the triple attached directly to the arms .  Maybe they do still make 
>> it or they once did. I do not know , but here's the photo . 
>> http://page16.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u84827566#enlargeimg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 6:09:52 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>>>
>>> Does the Sugino 901d come as a triple with holes on the inner 
>>> crank/spider for a small bolt-on inner chainring?  (I'm afraid I'm a bit 
>>> immured in the past and not up on current matters.  Currently, I have as 
>>> triples on road bikes are a Stronglight 99 and a Campy Nuovo Record, though 
>>> I will put a T-A. Cyclo Tourist/Pro Vis I have on a bike.) 
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance. 
>>>
>>> John Taglia
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Bill Lindsay]

The tubing of the Hilsen is lighter than the tubing of the Atlantis. 
 What's your height and weight?  Will this bike be used predominantly 
unloaded, like a road bike?

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:40 AM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Many other Rivs get a lot of press here, but I really haven't heard much 
> on the Homer. Curious about the ride of this bike - it's liveliness as 
> compared to an Atlantis or Hillborne. Is its tubing relatively lighter? Is 
> it a softer feel? Is it more beautiful?
>
> Considering one as my all round dirt road bike and looking for something 
> springy with centerpulls and clearance for 38s with fenders.  
>

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[RBW] I rode my Clem yesterday...

[David Banzer]

Finally sort of got my Clem built up - I was itching to ride it but had 
been slowly building it up a couple parts at a time each day. Ended up not 
running a shifter and adjusting the rear derailleur to the 3rd cog in - so 
a single speed right now.
No photos as it got too dark.
As far as the ride - WOW! It's wonderful. I was skeptical about the 59cm 
fitting my at 6'4", but it most certainly does. With the sloping top tube, 
the headtube ends up quite a bit higher than a level top-tubed 64cm bike, 
and about the same as my 65cm Redwood.
The 64-ish cm top tube fits the bike perfectly for me. I finally have a 
frame that correctly fit Albatross bars for me - I'm shorter legged for my 
height, long torso. 
The super long chainstays are wonderful, in that I didn't notice them 
handling-wise like I thought I would. It took me a bit to realize how much 
they actually smooth out bumps as well.
As far as the laid-back cruiser, it certainly can be, but it certainly can 
be zippy if you want it to. Mine has Albatross bars a couple inches above 
saddle height, with a 12cm reach stem. Definitely can accommodate 
Albastache bars, but I'm perfectly content with what I have.
As far as the shifter goes, I was going to do a single thumb shifter in 
front of brake levers, inboard as Riv sets up the completes, but really 
like the portion in front of the brake lever, right before the bend, on the 
Albatross, and may run a bar-end shifter, but am sort of thinking of just 
putting the thumb shifter on the stem and calling it a day. 
I'm actually now seriously considering getting rid of a couple nice vintage 
tall frames (Trek 850, 620) as I see the Clem taking over most duties on 
and off paved roads.
Will try and get some photos tonight, but most likely will be this weekend.
David
Chicago

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[RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Pondero]

+1 on what Tony said.

I had a Homer, sold it to pursue another project, and ended missing it and 
buying another to replace it.  It's my all-rounder.  I'm relatively light 
and can use it for mult-day touring.  I ride it often on some rugged gravel 
roads and some trails.  I've built it up with drop bars and  albatross bars 
and both work quite well for me.  For most of my range of cycling, it does 
everything very well...and its handsome.  Based on your (admittedly brief) 
description, I think it is smart to give it serious consideration. 

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[David Stein]

One thing about the Homer is it almost never shows up for sale. Homer
owners must love it enough to not sell it (Chris's experience aside).

I am actually curious to how the Homer compares to some of the modern rando
bikes (boulder all road, ocean air rambler, etc). Low train vs. mid trail
handling and front load vs. rear load aside, i'm curious about the
liveliness and spritelyness between them for long day rides and light
touring/overnighters. They all seem to fill that niche of a do it all, wide
tire with fenders, racks for bags, road to trail type bike.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Pondero  wrote:

> +1 on what Tony said.
>
> I had a Homer, sold it to pursue another project, and ended missing it and
> buying another to replace it.  It's my all-rounder.  I'm relatively light
> and can use it for mult-day touring.  I ride it often on some rugged gravel
> roads and some trails.  I've built it up with drop bars and  albatross bars
> and both work quite well for me.  For most of my range of cycling, it does
> everything very well...and its handsome.  Based on your (admittedly brief)
> description, I think it is smart to give it serious consideration.
>
> Chris Johnson
> Sanger, Texas
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Steve Palincsar]

The Saluki came first.

On 11/12/2015 11:18 AM, Liesl wrote:
My memory is that the sequence was: wilbury/mixtes as the first 650b, 
then salukis, then bleriots. 


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[RBW] Re: 2x10 atlantis crankset options?

[Minh]

Mark,

Is the use of any 5-bolt inner (is that 74bcd?) something that is 
intentional by White or just a happy circumstance?  I have a VBC (only 
recent) and this is good to know!

Though i use mine on a Hillborne so cannot provide any info on fitting an 
atlantis.

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RE: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I agree whole-heartedly with what Chris and Tony said.  I have a 61cm 700C 
Hilsen set up as a pure road bike, and I use it as my go-fast bike for group 
road rides (although it is sporting the 38mm Barlow Pass tires).  Everyone else 
on those rides is rocking some kind of expensive carbon bike, and they always 
ooh and aah over the Hilsen's looks before shaking their heads at how heavy it 
must be.  I mostly don't get dropped, though, and if I do it's definitely not 
Homer's fault!  It is an absolutely delightful bike to ride – utterly 
comfortable and laid-back, yet simultaneously very responsive to steering input 
and effort.

I also have an S coupled Saluki (59cm, and obviously 650B), which I intend to 
use as a credit card touring travel bike after my retirement (49 days and 
counting!).  It has the 48mm Switchback Hill tires (actual more like 50mm), and 
is marginally more comfortable and marginally less responsive than the Hilsen.  
Both are wonderful bikes.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Stein
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 1:26 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

One thing about the Homer is it almost never shows up for sale. Homer owners 
must love it enough to not sell it (Chris's experience aside).

I am actually curious to how the Homer compares to some of the modern rando 
bikes (boulder all road, ocean air rambler, etc). Low train vs. mid trail 
handling and front load vs. rear load aside, i'm curious about the liveliness 
and spritelyness between them for long day rides and light 
touring/overnighters. They all seem to fill that niche of a do it all, wide 
tire with fenders, racks for bags, road to trail type bike.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Pondero 
> wrote:
+1 on what Tony said.

I had a Homer, sold it to pursue another project, and ended missing it and 
buying another to replace it.  It's my all-rounder.  I'm relatively light and 
can use it for mult-day touring.  I ride it often on some rugged gravel roads 
and some trails.  I've built it up with drop bars and  albatross bars and both 
work quite well for me.  For most of my range of cycling, it does everything 
very well...and its handsome.  Based on your (admittedly brief) description, I 
think it is smart to give it serious consideration.

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas
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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Tony DeFilippo]

I haven't ridden either back to back, but I have tried the OAC Rambler, a
Rawland rSOGN and spent a year or so on a 650B'd skinny 531 tubed Trek,
both set up similarly to my current Saluki.  My impression is they aren't
all that different.  My impression is the Saluki is a bit more
stable/neutral in handling overall and that at least for my purposes the
front end geometry easy to forget once you are on the road.  I regularly
carry my work clothes in a shopsack in front wald basket and have no
problem with handling. Once parked or when moving the bike around the front
wheel/basket combo does flop around really easy but I've had that issue on
every front loaded bike I've tried unless I mount a spring retainer (VO
sells them).

I find the Saluki to respond well to higher effort and it's easy to stay in
rhythm once your moving but it isn't as quick off the line as I remember
the Rambler, rSOGN or Trek.  Could be more the bags and racks I've got or
the upright handlebars.

I'm still a bit low trail curious just because I enjoy messing around with
bikes but I'm sure the Saluki isn't holding me back from pretty much any
biking adventure I could imagine.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 1:26 PM David Stein  wrote:

> One thing about the Homer is it almost never shows up for sale. Homer
> owners must love it enough to not sell it (Chris's experience aside).
>
> I am actually curious to how the Homer compares to some of the modern
> rando bikes (boulder all road, ocean air rambler, etc). Low train vs. mid
> trail handling and front load vs. rear load aside, i'm curious about the
> liveliness and spritelyness between them for long day rides and light
> touring/overnighters. They all seem to fill that niche of a do it all, wide
> tire with fenders, racks for bags, road to trail type bike.
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Pondero  wrote:
>
>> +1 on what Tony said.
>>
>> I had a Homer, sold it to pursue another project, and ended missing it
>> and buying another to replace it.  It's my all-rounder.  I'm relatively
>> light and can use it for mult-day touring.  I ride it often on some rugged
>> gravel roads and some trails.  I've built it up with drop bars and
>>  albatross bars and both work quite well for me.  For most of my range of
>> cycling, it does everything very well...and its handsome.  Based on your
>> (admittedly brief) description, I think it is smart to give it serious
>> consideration.
>>
>> Chris Johnson
>> Sanger, Texas
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 2x10 atlantis crankset options?

[Mark Reimer]

Any 5 bolt with any BCD - hence the 'variable bolt circumference/VBC'
naming. It's a great system. The white rings are lovely, but this was a
third the price s

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Minh  wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Is the use of any 5-bolt inner (is that 74bcd?) something that is
> intentional by White or just a happy circumstance?  I have a VBC (only
> recent) and this is good to know!
>
> Though i use mine on a Hillborne so cannot provide any info on fitting an
> atlantis.
>
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[RBW] Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Bill Lindsay]

Add Legolas

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Daniel Jackson]

Thank you all for your considered ideas on this bike - its great to hear 
more about it. 

I'm considering it among the Riv lineup as a potential dirt road 
randonneuring/pass hunting bike. I live and ride at the top of VT in the 
Northeast Kingdom - if you look at a map, there aren't really any major 
roads. Its a very rural area, I'm sure there aren't any other Riv bikes, 
and every ride I do is 95% dirt road. I want something that works well with 
a front load (15 lbs. or so) and has responsive, flexible tubing. I'm long 
and lean at 6' 3", 175 lbs. 

I'm attracted to the Homer because it seems like it might be the bike in 
Riv's lineup that has the lightest tubing for a bike with good tire 
clearances ( at least 38 is mandatory for the roads I ride) and center 
pulls.

Any other ideas? If I want a Riv, is this the bike for me? 

With a PBH of 90, should I go for the 61 or the 63?

Thanks folks. Always wonderful having the list's input.

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 6:33:17 PM UTC-5, ttoshi wrote:
>
> I have a Homer, Ram (650b for brevets) and a Roadeo, so I am leaning to 
> the lively side of Riv bikes. I weigh 150 and have a 54 cm 650b Homer. I 
> have ridden it on a 600k brevet with PariMoto tires and it did great.  
> After I converted my Ram to 650b (with 42 mm Hetres), I converted the Homer 
> to my deluxe commuter with rear rack etc. I find the Homer rides with some 
> spring and flex when I load it up with about 20 lbs of groceries/commute 
> bags, so I suppose if you weigh 170, the Homer could be ideal (although the 
> weight distribution would be different than with rear bags).
>
> Much like the Sam, I think the Homer fits between the brevet/club bike and 
> the credit card tourer.  A wonderful bike no doubt!!
>
> Toshi
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 3:04 PM, William R.  > wrote:
>
>> That's awesome. I don't recall seeing that before. Get one if you can!
>>
>> Bill in Westchester, NY
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The Mysterious Homer

[Tony DeFilippo]

90pbh as well and the 60cm Saluki fits me like a glove. As does the 56cm
Bombadil with its slopping top tube...

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:15 PM Eunice Chang  wrote:

> I sort-of inherited a 61 cm Homer that I named Thumper Buttercup.
>
> My only problem with it was that it rode so well and beautifully that it
> practically sang, and got me to buy another Rivendell, a QB. So that's my
> warning about Rivs, it's a slippery slope and then it's like trying to pick
> your favorite child when you go to your bike stable. First world problems,
> I know.
>
> But seriously, it's a great all-rounder - I've used it for short distance,
> long distance, errands with heavy loads, being a lousy ride leader (I kind
> of left my followers behind). It's my most comfortable bike in the stable.
> And it grows on you- and I suspect like most of us who have AHH, it becomes
> a part of us.
>
> And it's very, very photogenic. Here's proof:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ejchang/albums/72157644207754985
>
> E.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:08 PM, ted  wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a 56 Homer I bought through this list. As others have said the AHH
>> is a really lovely bike. Whether or not its what you are looking for may
>> depend on what you mean when you say "springy" or "responsive flexible
>> tubing". If you are wanting the flex of a standard tube diameter thin wall
>> frame that some associate with "planing", then the Homer may not be for
>> you.
>>
>> The AHH tubing is somewhat lighter than the Hillborne or Atlantis. I
>> think mine weighs about 7lbs (frame, fork, headset and binder bolt), which
>> I believe is about 1.5 lbs more than a Rodeo. Like other Riv's the tubes
>> are "oversized". I think my bike is quite lively and very responsive, but I
>> don't think the folks who wax on about planing and thin walled standard
>> sized tubes would favor the AHH.
>>
>> I used to ride a late 70's Nobilette built frame with then standard sized
>> 531 tubes (still have it just don't ride it much). When jumping or climbing
>> hard I believe I felt the frame flexing. I didn't really feel one way or
>> the other about that. I really liked that bike.
>> My next frame was an ~1980 Gios that had a shorter wheelbase and short
>> beefy stays. I was struck by how direct and immediate the connection
>> between the pedals and the contact patch of the rear tire was, and I really
>> liked that. The handling was also very precise and very responsive, which
>> was kinda great (particularly riding crits and such). I immediately much
>> preferred the Gios for the riding I was doing at the time, though it was
>> kinda unforgiving and perhaps not so great (still have that bike too).
>> When I got my Homer the first real ride I took had me thinking of Will
>> Smith in 4th of July yelling "I have got to get me one of these". It was
>> (and still is) comfy. It's handling was (and still is) responsive and
>> precise without seeming the least bit twitchy, and the sense of immediate
>> and direct connection between pushing on the pedals and the bike jumping
>> foreword was (and still is) every bit as strong and solid as the Gios.
>> Since I changed tires from 32s to 42s the handling seems a bit more stable
>> or slightly less quick but I still like it a lot. The next tires I buy for
>> it will probably be 38s.
>>
>> I frequently ride with a group in which my AHH is the only non MCFRB.
>> Sometimes one of the guys will say its amazing what I can do on that bike.
>> I tell them the bike is not a handicap, though my fat belly is. I also ride
>> it wherever I want. Paved roads, fire roads, wide trails, single track. The
>> MCFRB guys I ride with seem unwilling to venture off the pavement on those
>> bikes. Once when I said I had ridden a route they were saying you couldn't
>> do on a road bike the response was "yea but that bike goes anywhere".
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:40 AM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> Many other Rivs get a lot of press here, but I really haven't heard much
>>> on the Homer. Curious about the ride of this bike - it's liveliness as
>>> compared to an Atlantis or Hillborne. Is its tubing relatively lighter? Is
>>> it a softer feel? Is it more beautiful?
>>>
>>> Considering one as my all round dirt road bike and looking for something
>>> springy with centerpulls and clearance for 38s with fenders.
>>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:09:43 PM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you all for your considered ideas on this bike - its great to hear
>>> more about it.
>>>
>>> I'm considering it among the Riv lineup as a potential dirt road
>>> randonneuring/pass hunting bike. I live and ride at the top of VT in the
>>> Northeast Kingdom - if you look at a map, there aren't really any major
>>> roads. Its a very rural area, I'm sure there aren't any other Riv bikes,
>>> and every ride I do is 95% dirt road. I want something that works well with
>>> a front load