Re: [RBW] Re: thinking about going 11 speed, does anyone make a 12-32?

[Ron Mc]

the people making cassettes have counted the teeth, but have never analyzed 
the ride

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 8:28:21 PM UTC-6, ted wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> I see in your next post you found it. Please let us know how it works out 
> for you.
> Hope I wasn't blowing smoke when I assumed you could get a 43t ring.
>
> In the why can't I get ... sniff dept.
> Why no 11,12,13,14,16,18,21,24,28,32 (or ...34) 10 spd?
> the 9 spd HG80 gives 11,12,13,14,16,18,21,24,28 why not just add the 32 
> (or 34) to make it 10?
> the only shimano 10 spd 11-32 is 11,12,14,16,18,20,22,25,28,32 
> the 10 spd sram 1070 gives (now) 11,12,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32
> Id much rather have the extra one tooth gap(s) in the small cogs than the 
> minor reduction in step size in the large ones.
> And while I am at it, though there are 11 sp bar end shifters for the aero 
> TT crowd, there are no 11 sp down tube shifters.
> sniff.
>
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 9:35:57 AM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> Ted, 
>>
>> I got pretty excited when I saw your post 
>>
>> The 11-32 as you depict with 43/26 rings just about perfect replicates 
>> the 46/26 with my preferred spacing with close to 100 on the top end 
>> and around 21 on the low end. 
>>
>> However, none of the SRAM cassettes I saw online include the 14 cog :( 
>>
>> I just want an 11 speed casette that ends in 32 that has 1 tooth jumps 
>> in the highest 5 gears and I will adjust my big ring accordingly.  Is 
>> it really so hard?  *sniff*. 
>>
>> -Jim 
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:21 PM, ted  wrote: 
>> > Jim, 
>> > 
>> > I think you might get the gears you want more easily by picking rings 
>> that 
>> > get you what you want with readily available cassettes. 
>> > Eg. sram 11sp 11-28 with 42/24 rings 
>> >   4224 
>> > 11  99.3  56.7 
>> > 12  91.0  52.0 
>> > 13  84.0  48.0 
>> > 14  78.0  44.6 
>> > 15  72.8  41.6 
>> > 16  68.2  39.0 
>> > 17  64.2  36.7 
>> > 19  57.5  32.8 
>> > 22  49.6  28.4 
>> > 25  43.7  25.0 
>> > 28  39.0  22.3 
>> > Tighter spacing than what you propose and only looses ~1" on the low 
>> end. Or 
>> > 11-32 with 43/26 rings 
>> >   4326 
>> > 11 101.6  61.5 
>> > 12  93.2  56.3 
>> > 13  86.0  52.0 
>> > 14  79.9  48.3 
>> > 15  74.5  45.1 
>> > 17  65.8  39.8 
>> > 19  58.8  35.6 
>> > 22  50.8  30.7 
>> > 25  44.7  27.0 
>> > 28  39.9  24.1 
>> > 32  34.9  21.1 
>> > Spacing similar to what you suggested and goes just as low. 
>> > 
>> > Just another way to approach the goal that might be worth considering. 
>> > 
>> > On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 3:10:11 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> So I've got the rims lurking around my garage for a new wheelset.  I'm 
>> >> not super happy with the Soma Weymouth 650b rims that are on my custom 
>> >> currently, so, eventually I'm going to get around to building a new 
>> >> set.  One of the nice things about building a new wheelset is that you 
>> >> get to pick your hubs.  I will re-use my SON Deluxe from the front, 
>> >> but probably not the Deore from the back.  Being that I get to pick a 
>> >> new rear hub, well, I'm thinking I might like to go 11 speed.  I mean 
>> >> 11 is down to the 105 level now and will probably be at the Tiagra 
>> >> level sometime this year or next year.  So, it's getting down to the 
>> >> point that it's not really much more expensive than similar quality 
>> >> parts as in a 9 or 10 speed setup.  Why 11 in particular?  Well, read 
>> >> on. 
>> >> 
>> >> I'm really liking running a wide-low double on my Custom but I'm 
>> >> thinking that I would like to jam a couple of more gears in to get 
>> >> more ratios in the 13-18 mph range that I ride most often in.  I run 
>> >> 11-34 9 speed right now, with 44/28 in the front.  Some of the gaps 
>> >> between gears are just wider than I would like.  More gears in the 
>> >> cassette would seem to solve this. 
>> >> 
>> >> Of course, one might argue that, a better solution would be to just 
>> >> run a triple with a narrower cassette and you get all the benefits of 
>> >> more gears in the range that you ride in.  However, for whatever 
>> >> reason, triples on my custom have never really shifted well.  Either 
>> >> the granny, or the big ring, or both, overshift or undershift and it's 
>> >> just never quite right.  It seems much happier with the wide-low 
>> >> double, never gives me any trouble at all.  So I'd like to keep a wide 
>> >> low double, because this is the frame I want to keep riding most of 
>> >> the time.  Although I would like to go a bit wider between the big 
>> >> ring and the little ring, I really use it like a 1x9 with a bailout 
>> >> gear anyway.  So I was thinking maybe 46/26 up front and 12-32 in the 
>> >> back. 
>> >> 
>> >> And not just any 12-32.  I'm looking for 
>> >> 12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-25-28-32.  This yields the following ratios in 
>> >> the big ring per Sheldon:  99.7 - 92.0 - 85.4 - 79.7 - 74.8 - 66.4 - 
>> >> 59.8 - 

[RBW] Re: Big Ol' Clem.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Nice build David. As my date with Clementine approaches, I do find myself a 
little apprehensive about what kind of position it will put me in. I've 
been commuting on my Le Tour mixte with Albatross bars since early spring, 
and I really love this setup. I think I could go a tad more upright and 
still feel good, but I don't want to feel like I'm pedaling a chair around. 
Tim's comment that the Boscos are growing on him is encouraging, and I've 
read a few other comments that help alleviate my concern, but we'll find 
out for sure on Monday!

Your to-do list gave me an idea for my lighting system. I have a Shimano 
Dynamo and I was planning to buy a compatible rim and build a new wheel. 
But I have a not-being-used-at-the-moment 650B wheel, so I could just 
rebuild the stock front wheel--bonus, keep the colored nipples--and use my 
spare in the meantime. Can someone tell me what the stock rim on the 52cm 
bikes ended up being so I can order spokes? 

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 6:06:49 PM UTC-5, David Banzer wrote:
>
> Got around to taking photos of my large Clem today. Intended to earlier 
> but just plain forgot to take photos as I was having fun riding. 
> It'll get some temporary SKS P50 fenders as I contemplate tire selection, 
> then probably the VO 63mm fluted aluminum fenders. Needs a rear rack. I 
> have a Nitto R10 saddlebag support in the meantime that needs to be 
> installed, but I need longer bolts for the seatpost attachment as it was 
> designed to fit around a 27.2mm seatpost. I planned on also getting a 
> Haulin' Colin front rack as well, but I am pretty pleased with the Soma 
> front rack with Wald basket arrangement. I intended to test that out for 
> front load handling before I plunked down cash on the HC rack. I might just 
> stick with what's on there.
> Hi-vis basket bag for fun and because I like being seen on this bike. The 
> long chainstays are nice and comfortable - only downsides are sorta hard 
> steering in very slow, tight hairpin turns - and the most surprising sorta 
> downside - I can't see the cassette when I look down. I have a habit of 
> doing this regularly when I'm getting used to a new bike with new gearing. 
> Guess I'll just feel it out. Overall, very, very happy with this bike. 
> First bike I've felt fit right with Albatross bars.
>
> Some photos here: 
> http://s821.photobucket.com/user/dabanzer/library/Rivendell%20Clem?sort=3=1
>
> Build list for those interested:
> Riv Clem Smith Jr. 59cm Frameset
> 700c Alex DM18 Rims (older version with eyelets, basically a Velocity 
> Atlas or wider Sun CR18)
> Shimano Deore Rear Hub - older 7s freehub version
> Generic High Flange Front Hub
> Resist Nomad Tires (42mm actual)
> 7-speed custom cassette
> 2 7-speed chains!
> Shimano Ultegra long cage rear derailleur
> SunRace clicky friction shifter - mounted on stem
> Shimano Dura Ace 7410 Crankset (172.5mm) w/ 42t chainring & chainguard
> Dura Ace Bottom Bracket
> VP-001 Riv Gray Pedals
> Tektro CR720 Cantilever Brakes
> Gran Compe Roller Hangers
> Nitto Technomic Deluxe Stem - 12cm
> Nitto Albatross Bars - cromo
> Shimano Tiagra Brake Levers
> Cork Grips
> Generic Seatpost
> Brooks B17 - black
> Soma Champs Elysees Mini Front Rack
> Wald Basket
> Hi-Vis Basket Bag
>
> & finally, a to-do list
> Install fenders
> Re-build front wheel with SP Dynamo Hub
> Install Son Edelux II light
> Get wheel locks
> Swap pedals for VP Vice
> Wrap front of Albatross bars with bar tape
> Install chainstay protection of some sort
>

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[RBW] Re: Big Ol' Clem.

[Ron Mc]

good job David, clean bike.  

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[RBW] Re: FS: Waterford Rivendell Road Standard/Custom

[Fullylugged]

Ron:

  I think your Road should go for more than a similar condition Rambouillet. 
The tubeset is silver brazed Reynolds 753 (heat Treated Manganese Moly) with 
Reynolds 531 (like 753 but not heat treated) fork tubes, all secured with the 
Richard Sachs designed lugs. The Ram used nice Japanese Tohouku-Miyata Chrome 
moly 4130 heat treated for the DT and CS, but not elsewhere. It's a different 
tube set. 753 is harder to work with, and reynolds only shipped to approved 
frame makers. Look at the dropouts to confirm if they are Shimano or not. In 
either case, the Ram dropouts are plainer than the Road. The Build quality of 
Ram and Road was always stated as equal (Toyo vs Waterford) according to RBW, 
and I accept their opinion, so no difference there. Waterford paint is better 
than Uemura/Panasonic who did the Rams. Finally, rarity. Over 1250 Rams were 
made, and far fewer Roads/Road Standards.

 As you note, you have to spend $2,300 for today's roadish version and it still 
isn't made from 753.

Best wishes on your sale.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I remember Irv Weisman from my days with the New York Cycle Club. When I 
knew him (early 90s) he was not known for his helmet, but more for his 
obsession with gearing that would not destroy his knees. As a relatively 
young speedster at that time, I looked at his charts with amusement. What 
with today's compacts, subcompacts, micro mini nano compacts, etc. he was 
obviously a man ahead of his time!

No doubt people on bikes fall down and hurt themselves. Even on an innocent 
low speed jaunt to the supermarket or a ride around the block. And no 
matter how good a rider you are, you can't eliminate the unforeseen such as 
an oil spill or a squirrely squirrel. Having a helmet on your head during 
one of these incidents might be helpful.

I've experienced a couple of high speed crashes while racing. One was 
particularly bad, in that I cannot remember the entire day--I recall my 
friend picking me up, then I was suddenly pulling back up to my block that 
night. Apparently I was involved in a crash on a slight downhill sprint to 
the finish at 40 plus mph, and got my head rattled pretty good.

Again, though, I never stated that cars were the reason helmets were 
invented. I simply said it is riding in traffic, not running into a 
squirrel, that hinders more people from getting on a bicycle. Advocacy 
groups have done surveys that support this conclusion. Anyway, as has been 
stated, mandatory helmet use equals less riders equals less driver 
awareness/concern. There are a number of places in the world where people 
generally forego helmets, and the bike accident/injury rate is lower than 
in the U.S. Though nobody would deny that people in those places sometimes 
fall off their bikes, and sometimes get injured or killed, and perhaps some 
of those injuries or deaths could have been prevented by a helmet.

As I said earlier, humans apply logic, use denial, are sometimes rational, 
sometimes not. I see the bicycle as, in Ivan Illich's words, a "convivial 
tool." It is a beautiful, near perfect machine. One reason I find myself 
feeling more and more out of sorts when I go out for the (now rare) fully 
kitted "recreational" ride, is that it loses some of that conviviality for 
me with all that "cycling specific" gear. My number one tool for safety is 
visibility items--I commute with lights and a pretty nerdy looking safety 
vest, day or night. That's so car drivers might catch me out of the corner 
of their eye while they are looking up fantasy football results on their 
"smart phone."

Unlike vocal helmet proponents, who can get mighty upset, dismissive, and 
occasionally downright rude about it, I don't know of many people who don't 
wear helmets, or sometimes choose to wear helmets (Grant is on record as 
being helmetless during daylight hours and donning one after dark) who get 
that hostile toward people who choose to wear helmets religiously.  I 
certainly respect riders equally, regardless of whether they wear a helmet 
or not. Happy Thanksgiving, y'all!




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Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

P.S. I did not intend anecdote in any pejorative sense! Cheers.

*a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an 
interesting or amusing **nature*. 


On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 4:36:46 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> As I pointed out in my 'anecdote,' concerns about lack of control or 
> existence of cars weren't the reason helmets were developed, and they 
> weren't the reason for the adoption of helmets by *your* local bike club, 
> back in the day.   
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: RUSA Appreciation

[Meade Anderson]

must have sold the naming rights cheap...randonneurs are notoriously frugal 
except when it comes to their bicycles...

On Wednesday, 25 November 2015 11:32:49 UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> They love randonneurs here in Kansas! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Smart Guys: Bicycle Helmets Reduce Injuries

[Abcyclehank]

I am thankful to live in a country that is founded with a Constitution that 
supports FREEDOMS like SPEECH.  I am thankful for a group of "like-minded" 
cyclists who all share a personal conviction and passion for an activity they 
love.
I have read the aforementioned article and all corresponding posts and have 
experienced a full range of emotions as a result.
My "personal conclusion" is that I am essentially sure we will never achieve: 
world peace, an end to the abortion debate, or a helmet wearing consensus.  
Yet the passion and conviction all share is the correct point-of-view for each 
respective poster. It is their choice and their voice and not my place to 
condemn, shame, or persuade them to my perspective.
I am thankful to those who try to educate and pass on wisdom from their own 
life experiences without implying that any other perspective is wrong or flawed.
As a teacher for 26 years, most teaching Honors English to 15-16 year old 
sophomores I have learned that even very intelligent "future contributing 
members of society" have enormously different perspectives on every topic 
addressed; yet each feels their view is correct, incorrectly feel the majority 
share their point of view(not often the case), and believe that by presenting 
their "status quo" beliefs--others will see the light.
As my career wanes I have successfully adopted a new philosophy to challenge 
young adults to question everything "authorities" tell them, research both 
sides of issues, especially those they are most passionate about, and most 
importantly to live a life doing what is best for "themselves" not what others 
tell them they should do or be.

Sincerely,
Ryan "heading out for a cold Thankgiving ride in the rain to my wife's dismay" 
Hankinson 
N. Muskegon, MI

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[RBW] Re: RUSA Appreciation

['doc' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I was more impressed by the Seahawks sign.

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 11:32:49 AM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> They love randonneurs here in Kansas! 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Polished Sugino Crankset

[Garth]

 
FWI , the Sugion POE-110 OEM(matte) and I beleive the PE110(silver 
polish) also rings have superior clearance between big and small ring to 
any I have seen due to the big ring shape , which is unlike others 
including the basic cheap Sugino ones. They are not just pure flat, they 
have an offset mold .  I was not impressed with TA rings myself for this 
reason, I could not use a 36t mid ring and my 13t cog on a 7sp. FW, even 
with the 15t the chain was grazed. So if you have ever used an XD for 
example with basic Sugino rings you've possibly needed some spacers for the 
rings because the poor clearance.  Riv used to furnish these on their XD's 
sold with the basic rings for this reason. If you buy one with the OEM 
POE-110 rings no spacer is needed. 

   The PE110-S are their high end 7075 rings and OEM on the Mighty cranks. 
These are the rings that also were on the Alpina/Cospea. The rings on the 
Alpina2 and XD are the POE-110 matte finish rings , not 7075 auminum 
however. 

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[RBW] Re: Non-Schwalbe Tire Recommendations for Large Clem.

[Garth]

   Just because a frame can take a certain width tire coertainly does not 
mean it was or was not intended for a certain width tire.  Wider is not 
always better.  Everyone has a sense of "just right" .  On my Bombadil I 
prefer 40mm tires as I ride on the "road" , albeit patch paved and 
sometimes very poor and even primitive road .  For offroad I would want a 
tire wider than 50 or even 60mm , so we're speaking of a whole different 
class of frame there.

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[RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[JohnS]

Thank you Leah for sharing! 
 
Happy Thanksgiving,
JohnS

On Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 2:37:42 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:

> So, my husband rides - get ready for this - a Target Schwinn, purchased 
> over 5 years ago that feels as though it is going to fall apart at any 
> moment. Wobbly. Poor shifting. Bent bars. Awful. He never spends money on 
> himself, but my excitement over my bike has rubbed off on him, and he's 
> willing to look at the Clem. Now, I see there's not but a few left, so I 
> better get serious fast. I measured his PBH and he is about 86.3 cm. Does 
> that put him on a 59 Clem? He's 6ft tall, about 180, if that matters at all.
>
> Hopeful in Nevada,
> Leah 
>

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[RBW] Michigan Rivendell Owners

[Belopolsky]

Who's near by? Would love to see other bikes in person. I saw an Atlantis 
in Grand Rapids on Halloween.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[BenG]

I enjoyed your story, Leah. You're a good writer!

The new CEO I serve rides a carbon "triathlon" bike.  When I met him we were 
standing 20' from my mystery bike, and he was willing to take a look. Cast lugs 
with gold-lined cutouts, lots of steel tubes (some curvy), leather saddle, 
nickel-plated racks and a freeking basket. Struggling to come up with a 
positive response, he leaned over the drive side, saw the derailer and 
congratulated me on the great X7 model (it was an LX viewed upside-down).  Be 
patient!

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[RBW] Re: New Winter Project: Another 650B conversion, thanks in part to you

[KC]

Here's a listing I spotted on Craigslist for a Prologue 
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/bik/5326703220.html 
I asked seller the size - "not sure, but he is 5' 7"


On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 6:46:56 AM UTC-8, El Sapo wrote:

> If you appreciate lugged or steel bikes, 1988 -89 is probably the end of 
> the era for Schwinn and the other industry leaders. 

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[RBW] Re: New Winter Project: Another 650B conversion, thanks in part to you

[Palmer]

That Prologue looks like a 19" frame. My wife has a Traveller that looks the 
same dimension wise. She is 5' 3" with long legs and I needed a technomic to 
get the bars high enough.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

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[RBW] Re: Non-Schwalbe Tire Recommendations for Large Clem.

[El Sapo]

Garth, I agree. But, I'm still the kid who put another slick on the front wheel 
of my sting ray. The bike shop guy made me bring in a parent to approve before 
he would install the tire. Of course I just wanted it because I thought it 
looked cool, but I sold it to my parents as a necessity. I used to carry 20 lbs 
of newspapers on the handlebars of that bike every afternoon. Save me some of 
those yams!

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[RBW] Re: New Winter Project: Another 650B conversion, thanks in part to you

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, that's a tiny one.  It's a fantastic price for a really nice small 
road frame.  

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 8:11:54 AM UTC-8, KC wrote:
>
> Here's a listing I spotted on Craigslist for a Prologue 
> https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/bik/5326703220.html 
> I asked seller the size - "not sure, but he is 5' 7"
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 6:46:56 AM UTC-8, El Sapo wrote:
>
>> If you appreciate lugged or steel bikes, 1988 -89 is probably the end of 
>> the era for Schwinn and the other industry leaders. 
>
>

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[RBW] Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Kevin Lindsey]

I'm building a Sam for my wife and bought a complete Shimano 105 11-speed 
STI group for it.  Without thinking, I ordered a 650B wheel from Rivendell, 
only to find that it's a ten-speed hub.  Now, I know there are spacing 
issues with STI shifters, but I'm wondering what would happen if I simply 
removed the biggest gear from the 11-speed cluster and installed it on the 
hub.  Would the indexed shifting still work?  The spacing between the gears 
would remain the same and, in theory, I don't see how the transmission 
would know the difference.  However, I've built up enough bikes in my time 
to know that nothing (well, almost nothing) is that simple.  Before I have 
the local bike shop build me an entirely new 650B 135mm 11-speed wheel 
(which, by the way, apparently are only made now for disc brakes), I 
thought I'd ping the group and see if anyone has any ideas.
Thanks in advance,
Kevin

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[RBW] Re: Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Kelly]

Well if it's shimano it should work with the 11 speed.  They are made 
wider.  If memory is correct when I went from 9 to 10 speed I had to add a 
spacer.  I would make sense that removing that spacer now would make room 
for the 11 speed.  You may not have to replace the wheel.  

Been wrong before but that is my memory of it. 

Kelly

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 11:38:41 AM UTC-6, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
> I'm building a Sam for my wife and bought a complete Shimano 105 11-speed 
> STI group for it.  Without thinking, I ordered a 650B wheel from Rivendell, 
> only to find that it's a ten-speed hub.  Now, I know there are spacing 
> issues with STI shifters, but I'm wondering what would happen if I simply 
> removed the biggest gear from the 11-speed cluster and installed it on the 
> hub.  Would the indexed shifting still work?  The spacing between the gears 
> would remain the same and, in theory, I don't see how the transmission 
> would know the difference.  However, I've built up enough bikes in my time 
> to know that nothing (well, almost nothing) is that simple.  Before I have 
> the local bike shop build me an entirely new 650B 135mm 11-speed wheel 
> (which, by the way, apparently are only made now for disc brakes), I 
> thought I'd ping the group and see if anyone has any ideas.
> Thanks in advance,
> Kevin
>

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[RBW] Re: Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Bill Lindsay]

Kevin

It could work.  Take a look at that smallest cog.  See how it has that 
serrated pattern?  That allows the lockring to stay in place without having 
to tighten it super tight.  Now look at the second cog.  Is it also 
serrated in the same way?  Many Shimano cogsets have both the top and 
second cog serrated in this way.  If yours is, I would call that a good 
sign.  

Now, how many teeth is that smallest cog that you are removing?  Is it a 
12? or an 11?  An 11-tooth cog has a special smaller 11-tooth lockring. 
 Everything else uses a standard lockring.  So if you are removing a 12, 
you've got the right lockring for the next cog.  If you are removing an 11, 
you probably want to also set aside the small lockring and use a standard 
one.  Use your judgment there, deciding if you have good coverage. 

Finally, you are right that the shifters don't really know that there 
aren't 10 cogs there, but there will be an extra click somewhere.  The 
natural guess is to hide the extra click behind the biggest cog.  You can't 
get there because the limit screw of the derailer stops you from getting 
there.  Try that first.  If it seems funky, you might want to also try 
having the extra click on the small cog side.  That extra click would put 
slack in the cable as you are trying to shift to the smallest cog that 
isn't there, but it also means you are using the "right" 10 positions.  

I would definitely try it out before electing to rebuild a wheelset.  

best

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 9:38:41 AM UTC-8, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
> I'm building a Sam for my wife and bought a complete Shimano 105 11-speed 
> STI group for it.  Without thinking, I ordered a 650B wheel from Rivendell, 
> only to find that it's a ten-speed hub.  Now, I know there are spacing 
> issues with STI shifters, but I'm wondering what would happen if I simply 
> removed the biggest gear from the 11-speed cluster and installed it on the 
> hub.  Would the indexed shifting still work?  The spacing between the gears 
> would remain the same and, in theory, I don't see how the transmission 
> would know the difference.  However, I've built up enough bikes in my time 
> to know that nothing (well, almost nothing) is that simple.  Before I have 
> the local bike shop build me an entirely new 650B 135mm 11-speed wheel 
> (which, by the way, apparently are only made now for disc brakes), I 
> thought I'd ping the group and see if anyone has any ideas.
> Thanks in advance,
> Kevin
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[Jon Dukeman in the foothills of Colorado]

WOW! Great story Leah!
Your man is a lucky guy..not only because he has a new Rivendell... because 
he is married to a woman  who  loves bikes, knows bikes, loves to ride and 
appreciates and understands that a quality bike makes for a more 
pleasurable experience..
PICS PLEASE:)
Happy Thanksgiving!
Jon


>

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[RBW] Re: Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Kevin Lindsey]

Bill -
It's because the smallest cog is serrated and seems different from the 
others that I figured that was the more important gear, and concluded that 
the big ring on the other side was probably the more expendable and least 
likely to be missed by the transmission.  So off it comes.  I don't believe 
the second-smallest gear was similarly serrated, but I'll check.
The local bike shop assured me that this would never work, but couldn't 
really explain why.  I suspect they're right; I'll give this a try, but am 
not hopeful.  Still, miracles happen.
All the best,
Kevin

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 1:07:35 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Kevin
>
> It could work.  Take a look at that smallest cog.  See how it has that 
> serrated pattern?  That allows the lockring to stay in place without having 
> to tighten it super tight.  Now look at the second cog.  Is it also 
> serrated in the same way?  Many Shimano cogsets have both the top and 
> second cog serrated in this way.  If yours is, I would call that a good 
> sign.  
>
> Now, how many teeth is that smallest cog that you are removing?  Is it a 
> 12? or an 11?  An 11-tooth cog has a special smaller 11-tooth lockring. 
>  Everything else uses a standard lockring.  So if you are removing a 12, 
> you've got the right lockring for the next cog.  If you are removing an 11, 
> you probably want to also set aside the small lockring and use a standard 
> one.  Use your judgment there, deciding if you have good coverage. 
>
> Finally, you are right that the shifters don't really know that there 
> aren't 10 cogs there, but there will be an extra click somewhere.  The 
> natural guess is to hide the extra click behind the biggest cog.  You can't 
> get there because the limit screw of the derailer stops you from getting 
> there.  Try that first.  If it seems funky, you might want to also try 
> having the extra click on the small cog side.  That extra click would put 
> slack in the cable as you are trying to shift to the smallest cog that 
> isn't there, but it also means you are using the "right" 10 positions.  
>
> I would definitely try it out before electing to rebuild a wheelset.  
>
> best
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 9:38:41 AM UTC-8, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>>
>> I'm building a Sam for my wife and bought a complete Shimano 105 11-speed 
>> STI group for it.  Without thinking, I ordered a 650B wheel from Rivendell, 
>> only to find that it's a ten-speed hub.  Now, I know there are spacing 
>> issues with STI shifters, but I'm wondering what would happen if I simply 
>> removed the biggest gear from the 11-speed cluster and installed it on the 
>> hub.  Would the indexed shifting still work?  The spacing between the gears 
>> would remain the same and, in theory, I don't see how the transmission 
>> would know the difference.  However, I've built up enough bikes in my time 
>> to know that nothing (well, almost nothing) is that simple.  Before I have 
>> the local bike shop build me an entirely new 650B 135mm 11-speed wheel 
>> (which, by the way, apparently are only made now for disc brakes), I 
>> thought I'd ping the group and see if anyone has any ideas.
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Kevin
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[Patrick Moore]

The drama of this *histoire* is epic! I can't wait to see photos of the new
Clem. I'll wager 3:1 that your husband fully agrees with your decision
within a week of receipt.

Re the Target mtb: it really lasted 5 years of actual riding

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:37 PM, LeahFoy  wrote:

>  It wasn't the extra wobble in his ride, or the inexplicably crooked
> handlebars, neither the SNAP that came from merely shifting gears, nor the
> new creaking noises with every pedal stroke. Rather, it was his friend
> getting a new Specialized mountain bike that whet my husband's appetite for
> an upgraded bike. We all rode to church together on Sunday and his buddy
> said, "Here, try mine! I'll ride yours." Said friend looked like a circus
> bear wobbling around, gears popping on that  half-decade-oldTarget bike. No
> longer able to deny its state of disrepair, my husband gave in, and after
> church the three of us started talking bikes.
>
> Immediately I thought of the Clem. Immediately he thought of Specialized.
> The friend looked on with interest.
>
> I measured his PBH, which he couldn't decide was a violation of some kind
> or great fun. I waxed about all things steel. I droned on about long chain
> stays. I decried fat frame tubes and lack of braze-ons. I flattered. I came
> very close to nagging. How can you spend $600 on a bike when $900 more
> would get you a magical, Elven-made steel treasure from Rivendell? I put
> him on my bike and made him circle the block. "Boy, you're right; that does
> ride nice. Can we get a bike that looks like the Specialized and rides like
> the Rivendell?" *Eyeroll.*
>
> There was but one green 52 Clem at Rivendell. "But I don't like green. I
> just don't like green. It's a deal breaker. Did you see the color of the
> Specialized? I like that color." Flat gray and lime green, you guys.
> *Another eyeroll.* I had to tell Will we'd pass, which made me sad, but I
> decided to give John a call at Rivelo. He had 2 blue Clems in my husband's
> size left!
>
> Well, my husband's name is on a "French blue" 52 Clem out of Oregon's
> Rivelo! I never thought this day would come. It almost didn't come - only
> hours ago, he called and said, "I think me having this bike would just put
> you over the moon. So I don't care if it's not exactly my style, you call
> and get it." Listen, people, I don't need to be told twice. Within minutes
> John and I were friends and exchanging info. I added a Pletscher rack,
> which will delight my husband when he sees it will hold a basketball. It's
> his new bike, but I feel like I received the gift somehow. He's a CEO who
> wears suits, drives a luxury car, is a lover of all things new and modern,
> and never has a spare moment; I'm a stay at home mom who wears skinny jeans
> and boots, yearns for simpler times, and prefers to "bike there." He bikes
> to be with the boys and me. And I'm wearing him down, you see. Just the
> other day he submitted to a flannel shirt!
>
> And today he has a Rivendell.
>
> Life is good.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas,
> Leah
>
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[RBW] Seeking a Betty Foy headbadge

[Eric]

Seeking one Betty Foy head badge. Let me know, thanks!

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[RBW] Re: Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Deacon Patrick]

I keep reading this as "Elven speeds on a ten-speed hub" and thinking "I 
don't know, elves are fast, it could burn out." Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Jim Bronson]

Not true that 135 o.l.d. rear hubs are only made in disc.  Pretty much all
the boutique hub makers have them, for example:  http://www.whiteind.com/mi5
On Nov 26, 2015 11:38, "Kevin Lindsey"  wrote:

> I'm building a Sam for my wife and bought a complete Shimano 105 11-speed
> STI group for it.  Without thinking, I ordered a 650B wheel from Rivendell,
> only to find that it's a ten-speed hub.  Now, I know there are spacing
> issues with STI shifters, but I'm wondering what would happen if I simply
> removed the biggest gear from the 11-speed cluster and installed it on the
> hub.  Would the indexed shifting still work?  The spacing between the gears
> would remain the same and, in theory, I don't see how the transmission
> would know the difference.  However, I've built up enough bikes in my time
> to know that nothing (well, almost nothing) is that simple.  Before I have
> the local bike shop build me an entirely new 650B 135mm 11-speed wheel
> (which, by the way, apparently are only made now for disc brakes), I
> thought I'd ping the group and see if anyone has any ideas.
> Thanks in advance,
> Kevin
>
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[RBW] Big Ol' Clem.

[Ryan Ray]

Nice bike! Hey, whobmafe that custom bag? :)

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[RBW] Re: Michigan Rivendell Owners

[Wayne Naha]

I will be in the Big Rapids area after the New Year.

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 10:51:24 AM UTC-5, Belopolsky wrote:
>
> Who's near by? Would love to see other bikes in person. I saw an Atlantis 
> in Grand Rapids on Halloween.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: thinking about going 11 speed, does anyone make a 12-32?

[Lungimsam]

This thread needs to be permanently pinned to the top of this forum list.

This thing has risen to the most untold dizzying heights of coggery!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[LeahFoy]

Not the dreaded e-bike! That may be worse than my husband's Target special! Ok, 
maybe not, but I just know Grant would disapprove. :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[LeahFoy]

KC - I'm intrigued by your story! I urge you to tell it! How can you leave us 
hanging? Did he get a bike? What happened to his old one? Is it now "the guest 
bike"? How is your Cheviot? Does he insist you match? How does he feel about 
the color green? Was he horrified or delighted with the PBH trick? Haha!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[Lungimsam]

Congrats on the accomplishment, Leah!
One of the most entertaining posts I've ever read here!
Been trying to get my wife on a Rivendell for a long time now. I thought she 
was just about ready. Thought it was gonna be a lock...her Raleigh is gettin 
old and the shifting is not great. Her brake lever is bent..I threw the idea 
out there for a Rivendell again...I mean, who wouldn't accept a 3,000$ gift 
from their spouse, right?
Then she said she now wants an electric bike.

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Re: [RBW] Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Lungimsam]

Coggery, that is.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[LeahFoy]

Thanks, you all. You are too kind. BenG, I laughed at the CEO story out loud. 
Sigh, let him ride it a mile and I bet he makes you an offer. 

One of my husband's quirks is that he likes to "match." Like, on weekends, he 
watches me get dressed and then rummages through his closet for some 
correlating ensemble. Maddening and flattering! He's excited about his bike if 
we can have matching grips and a matching saddle. He wants to use his rack. He 
thinks it's cool he can bring his stuff.  I don't think he has thought two 
seconds about the ride! I'll update his thoughts and pics when the time comes. 
Don't get your hopes up, the nicest aspects of his Rivendell are likely to 
completely escape his notice.

Patrick - yes, if tooling around with his family and in our neighborhood counts 
as riding. It's very, very light riding. Anything more and he probably would 
have had a catastrophic event - that thing is unsafe! When he got on my Betty 
Foy, he looked back at me and called, "Hey, there's something wrong with your 
bike! The handlebars line up with the front wheel!"  Sigh again. I tried to 
relegate his bike to the trash, but he rescued it and insists it's now "the 
guest bike." Triple sigh.

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Re: [RBW] Eleven speeds on a ten-speed hub

[Lungimsam]

If you're thinking of going 11-speed...then you aren't thinking...

Just kidding.
I have been intrigued by the new 1x11 idea that is going on now.
But I like friction shifting. And I don't like the fact that anything over 32T 
makes the cogset look like a discus from the non-drive side. I don't like the 
aesthetic. But I could probably get over it easily.
And never having to shift up front again sounds interesting. And coggert is 
always fun to think about.

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