Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Patrick Moore]

After 3-4 years of statewide "extreme" drought, NM has pretty much
recovered over the last 2 years, and this winter in particular has been
wet, at least by the standards of a city with average citywide rainfall of
9" per annum (it ranges from 5" on the west mesa to 14" at the foothills).
Last Saturday saw a good 3 to 4 inches in my area, probably 6" at the far
east near the mountains, and "state emergency" (predicted tens of thousands
of dead cattle; people stranded for 24 hours in drifts; real snow) amounts
in the south -- we got snow, TX got rain. I had a great time on Sunday
morning riding in the fresh 4", but came home with a grapefruit-sized ball
of ice on my bb. This hack is a cheap and slovenly remedy (my Fargo
replacement will have real fenders).

I'm very pleased with the RL. I've still got some tweaking, but it's 85/100
just right.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 6:02 PM, iamkeith  wrote:

> Awesome.  That is a true "hack."Does that mean that you've actually
> been getting rain and snow in the desert this winter?  I've been meaning to
> tell you how impressed I am with the way you've figured out and dialed-in
> that bike already.  I've been riding one or more bontragers continuously
> since 1994.  For 8 years, my Race was my only functioning bike.  Then it
> had a baby seat mounted to it.   Had a Race Lite briefly, but decided I'm
> too heavy.  Now on a Ti lite, but working on a non-suspension-corrected OR
> at the moment.   Thing is, it took me decades to figure out some of the
> things you already did  - like  how much better it rides with a shorter
> stem, more seat setback and higher bars.
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 5:38:07 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> That looks like a design or a production flaw, to me. If I were you, I'd
>> hack a wedge-shaped spacer, and then complain to Rivendell.
>>
>> I've had my own, self-imposed fender hassles, but nothing like this!
>>
>> I append for comic relief the fender arrangement (I am going to market
>> this system under the trade name, HalfAssed Fenders) I hacked today for my
>> Race Lite, which has no fender bosses, no hole in the fork crown, and brake
>> boosters that clear the new, larger tires by about 1/4".
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[cyclotourist]

I bet a Saluki or other 650B bike would be okay, but if you really wanted
to pull it off, slap a 700X25C wheelset on there. Should fit fine as long
as you have sidepulls.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Evan E.  wrote:

> Justin: I'm pretty sure that if you show up on a Saluki with drop bars,
> non-aero brake levers, down tube shift levers, and toe clips with straps,
> you and your bike will be welcome.  [Speaking of toe clips, please send me
> an email. Thanks.]
>
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[RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[Kainalu]

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wsf-172.htm
Leather bar tape!! Wishing it was a 71cm...
-Kai

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:36:40 PM UTC-5, erik balsbaugh wrote:
>
> Hello group! 
>
> I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back yard. I 
> rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of late had 
> used the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son around in a 
> trailer. 
>
> On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife for 
> Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am now 
> hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be the 
> best choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to 
> commuting to work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a 
> trailer. 
>
> Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a 
> PBH of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll 
> run into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant struggle 
> get my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike 
> since there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area. 

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[RBW] Re: 25% off ANYTHING in Web Specials!!!

[Allan in Portland]

Any folks w/ Woolpower able to comment on the fit? Do they run true to 
size, a bit small, "relaxed" cut?

Thanks.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 2:37:33 PM UTC-8, Christopher Murray 
wrote:
>
> PSA: Coupon on the Blug says 25% off anything in Web Specials. It does not 
> say it excludes bikes. Man oh man if only there was something in my size. I 
> put a complete bike in the cart and the coupon worked so I assume it is 
> legit.
>
> Chris
>

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Re: [RBW] Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Robert Barr]

Jim, It depends on what you plan to carry. I have commuted with a large
Wald basket mounted to a Nitto mini-front rack for about 5 years. My work
bag is a Patagonia Mini-Mass, and it fits perfectly in the large basket. I
normally carry a laptop, a few papers, and maybe a book or two. When the
bag is placed in the basket the center of mass is located directly over the
rack. The "rest" of the basket sees the most use during the Spring and Fall
when I am adjusting layers. The large basket is perfect for swallowing up a
rain coat or a bulky fleece. I have never had the basket flex, twist, or
bend. It is no different from loading a pack -  if you think about your
weight distribution everything will ride well - ignore the weight and just
toss things in the pack and you will have a bad day. If you are thinking
about carrying more than a work bag and some clothes get a bigger rack. My
bias is Nitto, but as you can see from the other responses there are many
options. Bob

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Justin August 
wrote:

> SOMA has a mini-alloy rack that basically looks like a Blackburn rack for
> the front of your bike that many folks use to support their Wald baskets.
>
> I just use a Mark's Rack. I try not to overload it.
>
> -J
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:36:08 PM UTC-8, Patrick D Kelly wrote:
>>
>> This may be sacrilege, but I use a racktime top-it front rack on a couple
>> bikes to support a large riv/wald basket.
>>
>> http://www.rei.com/product/852184/racktime-top-it-front-bike-rack
>>
>> I then load up the basket, and tie sleeping bags and tents to the
>> underside of the basket/rack.
>>
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/14750182765/in/album-72157635342528758/
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/14750181825/in/album-72157635342528758/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/23775311590/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/23703161619/
>>
>>
>> no problems so far. :)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Robert F. Harrison 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you don't already have a mini or marks then the suggestions are good.
>>> If you do, you might try looking for one of riv's platracks from a few
>>> years back. It's an add on that makes a great base for a large basket.
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/p/7CP2E4
>>>
>>> Someone's probably got one they don't need (not me though, I'm planning
>>> on using it again soon). :-)
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:22 AM Jim S.  wrote:
>>>
 Good morning all,

 I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a
 large Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither
 the mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket.
 So what racks are you using?

 Thanks in advance for any responses.

 Best regards,

 Jim S.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[cyclotourist]

Erik, it sounds like you have come out of this with a good bike! Being
between sizes shouldn't be a problem, you can get your fit dialed in with
stem length easily enough. Enjoy the new kid-hauler!!!

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 7:07 PM, erik balsbaugh 
wrote:

> Done, Ordered a 59, but based on your very similar stats worried I might
> have gotten a size too small?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:01:08 PM UTC-6, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>> BTW, I am 185 and have an 87cm standover.
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 10:00:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Campbell
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 61cm AHH owner here. Used for kid hauling (Burley Piccolo), commuting to
>>> work and completed my first 200k brevet this past October. I vote for the
>>> AHH but I am biased. ;-).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:48:27 PM UTC-5, Kainalu wrote:

 http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wsf-172.htm
 Leather bar tape!! Wishing it was a 71cm...
 -Kai

 On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:36:40 PM UTC-5, erik balsbaugh
 wrote:
>
> Hello group!
>
> I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back
> yard. I rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of
> late had used the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son
> around in a trailer.
>
> On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife
> for Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am
> now hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be 
> the
> best choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to
> commuting to work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a
> trailer.
>
> Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with
> a PBH of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that
> I'll run into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant
> struggle get my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more
> roadies bike since there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston
> area.

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"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[Brian Campbell]

61cm AHH owner here. Used for kid hauling (Burley Piccolo), commuting to 
work and completed my first 200k brevet this past October. I vote for the 
AHH but I am biased. ;-).



On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:48:27 PM UTC-5, Kainalu wrote:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wsf-172.htm
> Leather bar tape!! Wishing it was a 71cm...
> -Kai
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:36:40 PM UTC-5, erik balsbaugh wrote:
>>
>> Hello group! 
>>
>> I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back yard. 
>> I rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of late had 
>> used the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son around in a 
>> trailer. 
>>
>> On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife for 
>> Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am now 
>> hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be the 
>> best choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to 
>> commuting to work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a 
>> trailer. 
>>
>> Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a 
>> PBH of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll 
>> run into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant struggle 
>> get my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike 
>> since there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 1:40:10 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Especially where there's this much clearance.   But on the Clem, the 
> unique curve of the stays means that the  hole is not actually pointing at 
> the center of the axle, so it  looks like it would either require a wedge 
> shaped spacer,  would end  up putting stress on the fender or bolt or both. 
>  Thanks for any ideas.
>
>
> 
>
>
I don't know who asked about the Clem (attribution is a bit messed up on my 
end), but one can always dent a metal fender to suit the misaligned 
concentricity, like how one usually does at the bottom of the fork crown. 
If it's a plastic fender, some careful application of heat from a heat gun 
or hairdryer will usually result in temporarily softened polycarbonate that 
is suitable for bending to one's will. This isn't really anything out of 
the ordinary and in fact is to be expected to get a good fender line. I 
don't build bikes professionally, but am good enough (relatively) that 
friends have requested, so I've built a few; I haven't seen any fender 
installation that is a plug-n-play yet.

Since Rivendell bikes were mentioned, I had about 1" of space that I needed 
to contend with, to get the fender line I wanted on my Atlantis. The 
chainstay and seatstay bridges are equidistant from the vertical dropout so 
I decided to get some proper length standoffs from McMaster-Carr 
 for a clean 
job. On a friend's (much smaller) 47cm Atlantis, there was just as much 
space that I had to accommodate, albeit she was running Kojak 1.3 instead 
of my Compass 1.75. Lucky I bought spares! :)

[image: The Atlantis has globs of clearance. Even running 26x1.75" tires, 
the fenders needed a 25mm (yes, that's an inch) standoff to obtain a good 
fender line.  The fenders are Tanaka "Traditional" aluminum 
fenders. These are not like Honjos, with their cheaper-looking hardware and 
lessor finish. They're also slightly shorter in length (although 
true-to-size in width), necessitating mudflaps to really mitigate spray. 
However, they are less than half the price of Honjos and are thus excellent 
value for money.  The Compass 26x1.75 tires are really 
expensive but are super nice. They allegedly have Grand Bois tire casing 
and special grippier rubber. Whatever it is they did to the tire, it rolls 
and rides really well...enough to nearly justify the price.  
I've intentionally raised the cable hanger to increase the yoke angle, so 
as to increase brake pad-to-rim clearance, at the expense of reducing 
mechanical advantage. I did this because the rear brakes don't need that 
much power anyway and having more clearance for the rear brake is always 
better (the rear wheel being the weaker one).]

For my Rivendell Custom, I had specified larger clearances (for a 700c x 
35) but ended up running with smaller Parigi-Roubaix 700c x 27 tires 
instead, so I had to put in a small spacer to get a good fender line.




Even the well-thought out and quite Frenchy Boulder All Road needed some 
help with spacers, even when running with largish Hetres tires.

[image: Old school Avid Tri-Align cantilever brakes need no introduction to 
any 90's MTB gear head. Less obvious are the standoffs with the exact 
height I procured from McMaster-Carr to space the fender properly.]



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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Evan E.]

Justin: I'm pretty sure that if you show up on a Saluki with drop bars, 
non-aero brake levers, down tube shift levers, and toe clips with straps, 
you and your bike will be welcome.  [Speaking of toe clips, please send me 
an email. Thanks.]

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Since the curved stays were already a kind of kludge thing, it's kind of 
hard to call this whole hole thing a design or production flaw. I realize 
it may be a case of semantics, but understandable oversight seems about 
right.

The issue I see with the wedge solution is, as mentioned by Keith, might be 
too much intrusion into the fender well. I had been thinking about using 
the supplied bracket by screwing in an L bracket (with the L shape oriented 
upside down), creating an attachment tab that would re-orient the hole so 
the supplied clip on bracket could work. The tabs on the bracket and/or the 
hanging L tab might still require a slight deformation, but it would be 
inconsequential and would likely not stress the fender itself. Another 
thought would be to attach it in some manner to a rear rack. But I will be 
using a Moose Rack for the Burley Piccolo, and while the hole lines up 
almost dead center with no wedgies required, it would not allow me to 
connect the Piccolo. As is often said, your mileage may vary. Then there 
are the two aft facing braze-ons on the seat stays approximately midway 
between the brake braze-ons and the seat bridge, the purpose of which I am 
completely ignorant. I suppose an attachment could be made using those. 
Maybe bolt on something structured like one of those brake re-enforcement 
type things and then bolt the clip on bracket to that. Starts to get kinda 
Frankendell at that point though. 

I am curious however, given that the underside mounting is now standard and 
is supposed to result in a cleaner and more secure installation (as shown 
in several of the photos posted above by Benz), why the hole goes 
completely through on the Clems, and is only threaded half way? Why go 
through if the hole is threaded? Perfect spot for water to collect, unless 
you run the bolt completely through and put on a nut. But then why have 
threads, and why half way? No doubt I am missing something supremely 
obvious.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:38:07 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> That looks like a design or a production flaw, to me. If I were you, I'd 
> hack a wedge-shaped spacer, and then complain to Rivendell.
>
> I've had my own, self-imposed fender hassles, but nothing like this!
>
> I append for comic relief the fender arrangement (I am going to market 
> this system under the trade name, HalfAssed Fenders) I hacked today for my 
> Race Lite, which has no fender bosses, no hole in the fork crown, and brake 
> boosters that clear the new, larger tires by about 1/4".
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 4:23 PM, iamkeith  > wrote:
>
>> The boss on the underside of the brace is threaded.  But it is NOT at a 
>> right angle to the face of the fender, where it wants to be.Hard to 
>> show in a picture, so I'm slightly exaggerating in the photo below, just 
>> for illustration's sake.   Just slightly.  On your bike, the stays point 
>> directly at the dropout/axle, so everything is "in line" as you say, and 
>> aimed more-or-less directly at what would be the center of the arc of the 
>> fender.   On the clem, the hole is parallel to the stays where the brace 
>> happens to be attached, but the stays at that point are not pointed 
>> anywhere near the axle/dropout.  So there ends up being a wedge-shaped gap 
>> between the top of the fender and the bottom of the boss.   If I tried to 
>> firmly clamp the fender at that point, it would significantly deform and/or 
>> pull the fender out of alignment and/or stress the fender & bolt.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> I think the idea of sandwiching the fender between flexible rubber donuts 
>> will work.   Sort of like the way stud-mounted shock absorbers attache on 
>> some vehicles, to allow a variable angle.  I'll need to use a pair of nuts 
>> to lock against each other at the top, since it will not be possible to 
>> snug the bolt against anything.  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Only problem with this approach is that it will increase the length of 
>> the protrusion at the underside of the fender.   So I'm still open to other 
>> ideas, like the ones Ted suggests.  I'll look at bending the stock mounting 
>> tab, but it doesn't seem like it will quite work.  Am hoping someone has 
>> already dealt with this
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure I understand.  Does the seatstay brace have a threaded boss or 
>>> not?  This sure looks to me as though it's already drilled and tapped.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If it its, you drill up through the fender directly under the threaded 
>>> hole.  As far as the fender surface and the seat stay are concerned, it's 
>>> all in line.  Where it is with respect to the hub (i.e., curvature of the 
>>> stays) shouldn't matter at all, and wouldn't put any stress on the fender.  
>>>
>>> 

Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Joe Bunik]

I went last year and it was pretty dang fun - my attitude towards it
is "Do Your Best".

Any of you can totally swap out a cockpit for a non-aero setup; I
absolutely believe in your skills. But why stop there- go big! Let's
see who has the Retrogrouchiest Riv ever.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 12/30/15, cyclotourist  wrote:
> I bet a Saluki or other 650B bike would be okay, but if you really wanted
> to pull it off, slap a 700X25C wheelset on there. Should fit fine as long
> as you have sidepulls.
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Evan E.  wrote:
>
>> Justin: I'm pretty sure that if you show up on a Saluki with drop bars,
>> non-aero brake levers, down tube shift levers, and toe clips with straps,
>> you and your bike will be welcome.  [Speaking of toe clips, please send
>> me
>> an email. Thanks.]
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
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[RBW] PSA amazing price on a tiny 53 Atlantis

[jason]

Not affiliated in any way in Santa Cruz 
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/bik/5379703508.html

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[RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[dougP]

Erik:

We have some listmembers who have one of each, so hopefully they'll chime 
in.  Sorry to hear about the loss of your Atlantis but it sounds like you 
came thru OK.  I have an Atlantis and love it for touring but don't do any 
performance riding so not sure how it would do as a brevet bike.  Mine 
would certainly need to go on a diet and get a sportier wheelset.  
Rivendell has said the Atlantis f generally weigh about a pound more than 
a comparably sized more sporting model back in the Ram & Saluki days.  
Probably still true for Homer, but it would be interesting to hear from the 
voices of experience.  

dougP

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:36:40 PM UTC-8, erik balsbaugh wrote:
>
> Hello group! 
>
> I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back yard. I 
> rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of late had 
> used the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son around in a 
> trailer. 
>
> On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife for 
> Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am now 
> hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be the 
> best choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to 
> commuting to work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a 
> trailer. 
>
> Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a 
> PBH of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll 
> run into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant struggle 
> get my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike 
> since there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area. 

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[RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[hsmitham]

Erik,

I have both a 56cm Atlantis and 58cm Hilsen. Hit me up off list and we can 
discuss the merits of both.

My Hilsen: 

https://flic.kr/p/CxdevA

My Atlantis :

https://flic.kr/p/v3AQqv

Tail Winds, 

~Hugh

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:36:40 PM UTC-8, erik balsbaugh wrote:
> Hello group! 
> 
> I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back yard. I 
> rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of late had used 
> the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son around in a trailer. 
> 
> On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife for 
> Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am now 
> hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be the best 
> choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to commuting to 
> work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a trailer. 
> 
> Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a PBH 
> of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll run 
> into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant struggle get 
> my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike since 
> there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area.

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[RBW] Re: 25% off ANYTHING in Web Specials!!!

[dstein]

Oooh, who got the 51cm Demo Hunqapillar? That was my first Riv Demo ride :)

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[RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[Brian Campbell]

BTW, I am 185 and have an 87cm standover.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 10:00:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> 61cm AHH owner here. Used for kid hauling (Burley Piccolo), commuting to 
> work and completed my first 200k brevet this past October. I vote for the 
> AHH but I am biased. ;-).
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:48:27 PM UTC-5, Kainalu wrote:
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wsf-172.htm
>> Leather bar tape!! Wishing it was a 71cm...
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:36:40 PM UTC-5, erik balsbaugh wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello group! 
>>>
>>> I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back yard. 
>>> I rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of late had 
>>> used the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son around in a 
>>> trailer. 
>>>
>>> On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife for 
>>> Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am now 
>>> hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be the 
>>> best choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to 
>>> commuting to work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a 
>>> trailer. 
>>>
>>> Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a 
>>> PBH of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll 
>>> run into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant struggle 
>>> get my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike 
>>> since there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

Will, I do see your points and can agree to some of them. In fact, I've 
even shown a few newbies how to switch chainrings without affecting the 
overall gearing (much) by the "double-dump" method (that is most convenient 
when using Campagnolo Ergopowers). Nevertheless, it must take extreme 
dexterity to execute a double-dump on friction downtube shifters, 
especially in the days before Shimano put the left shifter stop 15° before 
parallel with the downtube. I'm also somewhat unconvinced that the 
double-dump cannot be executed easily with barend shifters and especially 
with MTB-style "flat bar" shifters (trigger or thumb). Brifters came much 
later, so ease in this type of shifter cannot have dictated the evolution 
or establishment of conventions.

To be transparent, I seemed to have cornered the market on new Shimano XTR 
M960 rapid rise derailleurs (all 7 of them), so there's that. :)



On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:38:33 AM UTC-8, William deRosset wrote:
>
> >It is a *logical* idea.
>
>
> Dear Benz,
>
> We could have had this "logical" action with either a reverse-acting front 
> derailleur (offered by Suntour and others for a spell) and the "Rapid Rise" 
> derailleurs, among many others--the first modern derailleurs used a reverse 
> rear action, and it comes back from time to time. We adjusted to the way we 
> do it after initial designs that work "logically."
>
> I speculate we end up with our current arrangement for two reasons. One is 
> ergonomic, and one is functional. The ergonomic argument makes the most 
> sense to me.
>
> First, when one double-shifts with a standard setup, (i.e. going from 
> small to big ring up front, simultaneously shifting to a bigger cog in 
> back), both levers move in the same direction, facilitating an easy 
> one-handed shift with downtube levers. It is the same muscle movement for 
> Ergo levers i.e. actuate both inner levers or both thumb buttons, and it is 
> the same distance of travel to make the shift work right if you're using 
> "racing" gears; similarly for barcons. 
>
> It requires much more dexterity to do an accurate simultaneous double 
> shift with friction levers (it is easier with indexing) and one 
> reverse-pull derailleur in the mix, and it is two different movements with 
> barcons or the various integrated lever systems. Consequently, a single 
> reverse-pull derailleur is a huge hassle when operating a half-step, for 
> example, when (sequentially anyway) every other shift is a double, or if 
> you're between ranges on a compact double.
>
> Now, this could have been done with either the standard setup, or with 
> both lever pulls reversed, so why set up with high-normal in the rear and 
> low-normal up front?
>
> When a rear derailleur cable fails (or is not installed), the derailleur 
> moves away from the spokes in a standard setup. This eases installation and 
> limits/eliminates the possibility of a derailleur getting mashed into the 
> freewheel or spokes unexpectedly. Also, in very early designs, derailleurs 
> had no limit stops, and a failed cable threw the derailleur into the 
> spokes The Cyclo, with no return spring, was a huge step up--at the 
> expense of double-cable design. The front derailleur also gets muscular 
> support (vs a spring) to force the chain up onto the big ring, and you get 
> direct manual feedback on when the chain has caught, which is when you can 
> safely apply power to the cranks again.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:49:14 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
> wrote:
>>
>> It is a *logical* idea.
>>
>> Imagine if we didn't have the legacy baggage of pulling cable to 
>> downshift in the back. Wouldn't it make more sense if both front and rear 
>> derailleurs did the same (upshift or downshift) if a particular action was 
>> actuated (such as pull or release cable)? With rapid-rise (or Low normal), 
>> Shimano was just harmonizing front and rear derailleur actions so pulling 
>> cable (with DT, thumbs, barends & STI) will all result in upshifts. Sounds 
>> pretty logical to me and it should be easier to teach newbies too.
>>
>> I also seem to recall that one of the technical reasons for rapid-rise 
>> was to improve rear shifting. Apparently, the downshift-facilitating ramps 
>> on the HG cassettes work better when the chain is gently prodded by a 
>> spring, rather than getting ham-fisted with an overly eager rider.
>>
>> In any case, it's not a particularly hard skill to switch to. No shifts 
>> are truly critical for non-pros, so a mis-shift here or there isn't bad. 
>> One can always harmonize all Shimano-equipped bikes with rapid-rise rear 
>> derailleurs! :)
>>
>> Anyone remember the reverse shifting Sachs *front* derailleur?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:28:37 AM UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  Rapid Rise was doomed before it even started !  If it was such a great 
>>> idea then why didn't they make all 

[RBW] Re: FS: Shimano 105 FD-5703 Triple Front Derailleur

[Keith Muller]

Clamp is a 31.8mm and i will also include a shim for 28.6mm.

Keith

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 10:18:41 PM UTC-7, Keith Muller wrote:
>
> I have a Shimano 105 FD-5703 Triple Front Derailleur I'm looking to sell. 
>  Used about 500 miles like my other stuff.  $20 Shipped.  DM me with any 
> questions or offers.  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith
>

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[William deRosset]

Dear Jim,

I have good relationships with bike builders, and I like trying out 
new-to-me designs.

I go to swap meets.

I'm a Magpie (ooh! Shiny! Catches light just so!) 

I end up with piles of shiny aluminum and chrome-steel bits.

Then I scrape them up in use.

Best,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO
 
P.S. that R10 looks great!

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 1:06:12 PM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[ted]

My experience with clicky things is fairly limited, but with my campy ergo 
brifters it still seems very obvious that one lever is pulling in cable to 
pull the chain uphill moving the internal mechanism to the next ratchet 
stop, and the other lever dumps it down one ratchet stop at a time. Same on 
both sides. Still just as logical as downtube or bar end shifters. I am 
fairly certain that if I had started with brifters I would still think 
about it the same way.
I think you are correct that the crux of the matter is thinking about the 
mechanics of what is going on, or not as the case may be. It certainly 
seems plausible that the rapid rise arrangement might make more sense to 
new riders that have no understanding of how a bike works and no interest 
in learning. I expect that is even more the case with the latest electric 
shifting systems. However I suspect that rapid rises failure to take any 
segment of the market by storm is because it in fact doesn't seem more 
natural than the current convention to any sizable group of people.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:48:00 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> That's how it works in my head, too, Ted. I grew up on friction 10-speeds, 
> so my first relationship with shifters was pulling up to bigger cogs, 
> pushing down to smaller. This made perfect sense to us who learned that 
> shifting was moving a chain around with our hands. But there's a whole 
> generation who relate to shifting as "click that thing there and the gear 
> changes." For them it may make more sense to have the clicky things use the 
> same paddles for easier and harder. I doubt I could ever get used to it..my 
> brain is locked on following the chain to bigger or smaller cogs/rings.

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Michael Hechmer]

Yes, I had hammered honjos for 7 (?) years before the rear one cracked.  I 
admired the looks of the cream long boards on my wife's Betty so put a pair 
on the Ram.  The blue on the Ram is enough different from the Betty to make 
the fenders look off to me.  I have a pair of VOs ready to install.

Michael

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:46:01 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> Since you say "returning to hammered Al" I presume you had that before 
> going to plastic.
> What prompted you to change to plastic, and were the plastic ones SKS 
> longboards?
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 4:11:56 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes I have resisted parts because they are not shiny silver or Al. 
>>  Sometimes it has been a mistake.  When I refurbished my Ram as a double I 
>> resisted the White VBC crank even though it looked like it would give me 
>> exactly what I needed and would function perfectly.  I decided to order it 
>> and discovered it was a shiny, polished black that looked great.  Then I 
>> resisted  mating it with the Shimano RD 6700SS because it was grey. 
>>  Ultimately I bought it too and found it has given me the best friction 
>> shifting I have ever had. No regrets.
>>
>> OTOH, after a year with plastic fenders on the Ram I gave up and am 
>> returning to hammered Al.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:06:12 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>>
>>> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Jim S.]

Good morning all,

I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a large 
Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither the 
mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket. So 
what racks are you using?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Best regards,

Jim S.

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[RBW] FS: Drivetrain Parts, Shifters, Disc Brakes, & Headset

[Keith Muller]

Brakes & Headset are sold.

Drivetrain & Shifters are still available.

Keith

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[ted]

Actually, though it can be a bit tedious, it is not difficult to be very 
precise with spacers/shims.
Therefore I believe your presumption that they can not be used successfully 
with metal fenders is wrong.
Sorry about the ad hominem attack.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:23:07 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 12/30/2015 12:34 AM, ted wrote: 
> > I wonder what the fender material has to do with it since I never 
> > "just grab hold of it, yank in the direction you want and clamp it 
> down". 
> > I use a spacer to support the fender where I want it to get the fender 
> > line I want (as long as the frame is not in the way). 
> > Is the use of spacers to adjust fit really beyond your comprehension, 
> > or are you being willfully obtuse? 
>
> You cannot use spacers to adjust the line of the curve of the fender.   
> With plastic fenders you just pull the fender where you want it to be, 
> with metal ones you have to adjust the curve by opening or closing the 
> fender opening a bit.  Yes, you can use spacers to fill a gross gap 
> between the forward edge of the rear fender and the chain stay bridge 
> but you don't have to be very accurate, you can pull the fender to where 
> you want it and hold it in place with tension without doing any harm to 
> the fender.   Do that with aluminum fenders and they will crack. 
>
> As you say, is that "beyond your comprehension, or are you being 
> willfully obtuse?" 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 11:18 AM, ted wrote:
Actually, though it can be a bit tedious, it is not difficult to be 
very precise with spacers/shims.
Therefore I believe your presumption that they can not be used 
successfully with metal fenders is wrong.


If "tedious" bothers anyone, they should avoid metal fenders as they 
would the plague, because no matter what their installation is going to 
be tedious.  If you can make things fit with spacers and not have to 
adjust the curve of the fender by hand, then great -- because that's not 
only time consuming, it can be downright difficult and painful, and 
that's with soft, easily manipulated aluminum.  I'd hate to think about 
doing it with stainless.


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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 12:10 PM, ted wrote:
I have alway thought the reason for adjusting the fenders curve was to 
match the tire and get the fender line one wants.
If your fender doesn't match your tire radius they way you want it to, 
you have to adjust the fender or live with the miss-match.
For me that is a separate issue from bridge placement and spacers 
(unless of course the bridge blocks where the fender needs to go to 
get the line I want).


...or if you try to adjust the curve at the front part of the fender so 
you can reach a chain stay bridge that's too far away without spacers, 
or to reduce the size of the gap you need to bridge.


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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Michael Hechmer]

Ah, I have a beautiful early Chorus FD broken in the same place.  Maybe 
metal fatigue or my over tightening?  I have never been willing to part 
with it, nor find someone able to repair it.

Michael
On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 11:20:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> Front derailer says, I want to play too!
>
> Crack makes cable bolt no tighten
> On Dec 29, 2015 2:05 PM, "Jim Bronson"  
> wrote:
>
>> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Patrick Moore]

I replaced a perfectly arranged 44/30 Pro 5 Vis 7 speed drivetrain on my
Ram with a slightly more problematical 9 speed one based around a Dura Ace
7410 crankset, simply because the 7410 is so pretty; IMO, the nicest DA
crankset made, and because this crankset matched the f and r derailleurs
and the rather rare DA spd pedals. Problematical because, given the ring
limits (52/38 smallest that would work for me) it required 2 more cogs to
keep the same range and avoid too big gaps, and a special order 16 t Miche
outer cog. I also had to find a 103 mm bb spindle for a Phil bb assembly.
But it sure was pretty!

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Michael Hechmer 
wrote:

> Yes, I had hammered honjos for 7 (?) years before the rear one cracked.  I
> admired the looks of the cream long boards on my wife's Betty so put a pair
> on the Ram.  The blue on the Ram is enough different from the Betty to make
> the fenders look off to me.  I have a pair of VOs ready to install.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:46:01 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> Since you say "returning to hammered Al" I presume you had that before
>> going to plastic.
>> What prompted you to change to plastic, and were the plastic ones SKS
>> longboards?
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 4:11:56 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> Sometimes I have resisted parts because they are not shiny silver or
>>> Al.  Sometimes it has been a mistake.  When I refurbished my Ram as a
>>> double I resisted the White VBC crank even though it looked like it would
>>> give me exactly what I needed and would function perfectly.  I decided to
>>> order it and discovered it was a shiny, polished black that looked great.
>>> Then I resisted  mating it with the Shimano RD 6700SS because it was grey.
>>> Ultimately I bought it too and found it has given me the best friction
>>> shifting I have ever had. No regrets.
>>>
>>> OTOH, after a year with plastic fenders on the Ram I gave up and am
>>> returning to hammered Al.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:06:12 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:

 I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!

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Re: [RBW] Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Christopher Murray]

I agree with you Patrick. The difference I see is that altering your custom to 
fit your riding style makes logical sense. Seems the purpose of a custom is to 
be exactly what the customer wants and therefore your changes were a 
fulfillment of that ideal. I am not passing judgment on the SO owner just 
wondering about their logic. I would think the mods costs as much as the frame 
itself. All to make a bike the SO was never meant to be.

Cheers!
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 10:43 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
No, what I wanted would have required a new custom even after the 
singles came out, since the QB and SO don't have what I want in a 
fixed gear bike.


Likewise without the "destructive" mods, I would not have had the kind 
of bicycle I wanted, as I said before.


Well, it is yours and custom is custom, and if there was no other way to 
get what you want and you are happy, then great -- as long as you never 
change your mind and want to go back, because those mods aren't reversible.





On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:


On 12/30/2015 10:23 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Well, I had a custom derailleur Rivendell modified to long
horizontals without derailleur hangar (and had the dt shifter
bosses removed, too); this is just the opposite case. My own
excuse is, that I loved the way the bike fit and handled, but
preferred a dedicated fixed gear drivetrain, and I didn't have
the $ for a new custom Rivendell. I've been happy with this mod
for getting on for 10 years. Perhaps the owner loved his SO but
preferred derailleurs, and didn't want to spend for another
Rivendell?

I suppose I take a more liberal view of bicycle modification than
many, but my guiding principle is, if you really have thought the
modification through, and there are good reasons why alternatives
won't work as well for you, all variables considered, do it. A
bike is meant for riding, and riding is meant to give the rider
pleasure, so do what is most pleasant.


Well, except that your modification was destructive and not
reversible, and his could have been ignored and the bike run as a
single-speed as originally designed even after having been
modified.  Not that I'm saying his made any sense economically: I
agree with Jim, there are plenty of other Riv models that already
did that job.  At the time you made those mods, the
single-speed/fixie models had not yet been designed.




I agree that whimsical mods are silly. I'm just not sure this is
one of them.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Jim Bronson
> wrote:

Why would anyone do this?  There are other Rivendell models
that fit
this role without frame modification.

I don't mean to be overly negative but this is seriously
(expletive) stupid.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[John G]

I also have run a QB as a three speed, for several years as my only 
multi-geared bike. Although it is back to SS duty, if I ever come across 
another 64 QB and my finances are right, I'd pick it up to be a dedicated 
three-speed townie bike.  Love the way my QB rides. 
 I ran the shifter cable along the toptube and down the seatstay, after 
trying along the chainstay and whacking my foot against it too often. 
https://flic.kr/p/cScz1E
You can also see the non-rotation chain tugs I got a machinist friend to 
make me.
https://flic.kr/p/cScyTj
I put the shifter on a bar stub used as a bar bag mount point.  A bit 
kludgey, but worked fine for several years.
https://flic.kr/p/ofKPxf

Cheers,
John G

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[RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Jim M.]

I know some of you listers did this ride last year because I saw you there. 
Early, discounted registration for the 2016 ride ends tomorrow. 

http://www.eroicacalifornia.com/

I will be there with my Eisentraut, sitting on my Riv/BOB-ish Brooks saddle 
and rolling on 30mm tubulars.

I'm just posting this as a reminder, and not trying to start a polemic. But 
I know some of you can't resist whining about the rules or caviling in 
general, so let the kvetching begin.

Winter cheers!
jim m
wc ca

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Re: [RBW] Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Robert F. Harrison]

If you don't already have a mini or marks then the suggestions are good. If
you do, you might try looking for one of riv's platracks from a few years
back. It's an add on that makes a great base for a large basket.

https://flic.kr/p/7CP2E4

Someone's probably got one they don't need (not me though, I'm planning on
using it again soon). :-)

Aloha,

Bob

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:22 AM Jim S.  wrote:

> Good morning all,
>
> I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a
> large Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither
> the mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket.
> So what racks are you using?
>
> Thanks in advance for any responses.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim S.
>
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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Jim Bronson]

6.1(a) and 6.1(c) might be hard for many Rivendell owners to meet,
that being, downtube shifters required and brake cables that go over
the handlebars.  I don't recall Rivendell selling brake levers with
the traditional out-the-top cable arrangement in recent years.

But otherwise, it sounds like an awesome event.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Jim M.  wrote:
> I know some of you listers did this ride last year because I saw you there.
> Early, discounted registration for the 2016 ride ends tomorrow.
>
> http://www.eroicacalifornia.com/
>
> I will be there with my Eisentraut, sitting on my Riv/BOB-ish Brooks saddle
> and rolling on 30mm tubulars.
>
> I'm just posting this as a reminder, and not trying to start a polemic. But
> I know some of you can't resist whining about the rules or caviling in
> general, so let the kvetching begin.
>
> Winter cheers!
> jim m
> wc ca
>
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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Justin August]

You can get some from SOMA right now for 20% off!
-J

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> 6.1(a) and 6.1(c) might be hard for many Rivendell owners to meet, 
> that being, downtube shifters required and brake cables that go over 
> the handlebars.  I don't recall Rivendell selling brake levers with 
> the traditional out-the-top cable arrangement in recent years. 
>
> But otherwise, it sounds like an awesome event. 
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Jim M.  
> wrote: 
> > I know some of you listers did this ride last year because I saw you 
> there. 
> > Early, discounted registration for the 2016 ride ends tomorrow. 
> > 
> > http://www.eroicacalifornia.com/ 
> > 
> > I will be there with my Eisentraut, sitting on my Riv/BOB-ish Brooks 
> saddle 
> > and rolling on 30mm tubulars. 
> > 
> > I'm just posting this as a reminder, and not trying to start a polemic. 
> But 
> > I know some of you can't resist whining about the rules or caviling in 
> > general, so let the kvetching begin. 
> > 
> > Winter cheers! 
> > jim m 
> > wc ca 
> > 
> > -- 
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> Groups 
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[RBW] Re: Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm using a Nitto Big Front rack (34F) to support a large Wald basket on my 
Atlantis.  I'm using a Nitto F20 on a 26" wheel camping bike to support a 
Medium Wald Basket.  I'm using a Velo Orange Constructeur front rack to 
support a medium Wald basket on another commuter bike.  

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 10:22:12 AM UTC-8, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Good morning all,
>
> I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a 
> large Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither 
> the mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket. 
> So what racks are you using?
>
> Thanks in advance for any responses.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim S.
>

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[RBW] Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Tim Wood]

I have a Nitto big front rack for my wald. I choose that one so I can run the 
basket in conjunction with panniers. 

Coincidentally, bens cycle is having an awesome sale on Nitto right now and 
with the newyear2016 discount code a big rack comes to $150 with free shipping! 
That a $60 savings. - but there's only one left! 

I picked up an albatross bar for like $40. And a pair of nomad resist 700x45 
for $35. Great sale. 

Tim

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Abcyclehank]

Tom,

Would love to pass the wheel on to you.  I am settling into my new home in 
North Muskegon.
Let me know if you want to see it and my other bikes, you are welcome anytime.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
(616)928-4226

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[RBW] FS: Soma Supple Vitesse EX 700x42c tires

[William!]

Bought these to see what everyone is talking about. They are round and roll 
fast, basically a wider Jack Brown Green. However, this is the version 
without the Kevlar belt and I found I wanted more flat protection for my 
daily commute. Alas, my adventuring bike cannot fit such a girth. According 
to Ride Report, these tires have 176 miles on them.

$80 shipped for the pair, $70 for PDX pickup.

http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/supple-vitesse-ex-700c-clincher-tire

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[iamkeith]

So. as long as this particular discussion is active, I'm hoping I can 
get a bit of related advice/suggestions.  I just yesterday got some SKS 
plastic fenders from Tim, to install on my 59 Clem, and am running into 
something I haven't seen before.

First of all though,  I can confirm that the kickstand plate is indeed 
further from the center of the wheel than the seatstay brace.  However BOTH 
mounting points are far enough away that they will need form of spacer - 
even with the enormous 2.4" tires I plan to use.My go-to solution is to 
stack aluminum inner chainring spacers as needed, and I will do that again. 
 They look nice.   Since the hole diameter is larger than the screw, a 
piece of rubber hose inside the stack keeps them snug and nicely aligned.   
I mention this just as an idea for the OP though.  My actual question is 
this:

The holes on the seatstay brace are oriented radially rather than 
tangentially, relative to the wheel axle, which I've never seen before. 
 [Picture below.]   What's the normal way to attach the fender in this 
configuration?  I'm sure I can hack something together, but thought I'd see 
if anybody has already figured out some elegant solution.   On "normal" 
bikes, it would probably work to simply drill through the  fender and bolt 
directly to the stay.  Especially where there's this much clearance.   But 
on the Clem, the unique curve of the stays means that the  hole is not 
actually pointing at the center of the axle, so it  looks like it would 
either require a wedge shaped spacer,  would end  up putting stress on the 
fender or bolt or both.  Thanks for any ideas.


 

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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Justin August]

So - just so I understand, for mostly academic reasons, not that I'm going 
to enter, but maybe?
I could use my Saluki _if_ I used
- non-aero levers
- Downtime shifters
- Shallow rims ala the Pacenti PL23 in 32 spoke or more
- Pedals with clips and straps

Is that all?

-J

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:32:38 PM UTC-8, Justin August wrote:
>
> You can get some from SOMA right now for 20% off!
> -J
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> 6.1(a) and 6.1(c) might be hard for many Rivendell owners to meet, 
>> that being, downtube shifters required and brake cables that go over 
>> the handlebars.  I don't recall Rivendell selling brake levers with 
>> the traditional out-the-top cable arrangement in recent years. 
>>
>> But otherwise, it sounds like an awesome event. 
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Jim M.  wrote: 
>> > I know some of you listers did this ride last year because I saw you 
>> there. 
>> > Early, discounted registration for the 2016 ride ends tomorrow. 
>> > 
>> > http://www.eroicacalifornia.com/ 
>> > 
>> > I will be there with my Eisentraut, sitting on my Riv/BOB-ish Brooks 
>> saddle 
>> > and rolling on 30mm tubulars. 
>> > 
>> > I'm just posting this as a reminder, and not trying to start a polemic. 
>> But 
>> > I know some of you can't resist whining about the rules or caviling in 
>> > general, so let the kvetching begin. 
>> > 
>> > Winter cheers! 
>> > jim m 
>> > wc ca 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups 
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an 
>> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> signature goes here 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: parting out a bike

[David Banzer]

Another update. Lowered prices on a couple things.

Prices include conUS shipping. PayPal Personal payment please.

Nitto B136 Randonneur Bar Setup - 44cm bar, 11cm Nitto Technomic stem 
(225mm height) 26.0mm clamp, Shimano non-aero brake levers, faded blue 
cloth tape - $85 shipped
or separated...
Nitto B136 Rando Bar - $40 shipped
Nitto Technomic Stem - 11cm, 26.0 clamp - $40 shipped
Shimano Non-Aero Brake Levers - $10 shipped

27.2mm Seatpost - basic Kalloy post, scratched up - $10 shipped

Shimano Derailleurs - long cage rear, front triple, low end stuff but works 
great - $15 shipped

Soma B-Line Tires - 650b 38mm folding tired w/ Pasela tread - w/ 2 presta 
tubes - $60 shipped for tires/tubes or $55 shipped for just tires

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 4:48:31 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> ???
>
>
The "napkin rings" were the cast reinforcements at the top and bottom of 
the headtubes, which have recessed lettering.   Together, they were 
supposed to say "RBW - EST 1994"  but the production versions ended up 
saying "RBW - RBW"   I'm quite sure they are already aware of this botch, 
though.

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Re: [RBW] Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Justin August]

SOMA has a mini-alloy rack that basically looks like a Blackburn rack for 
the front of your bike that many folks use to support their Wald baskets.

I just use a Mark's Rack. I try not to overload it.

-J

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:36:08 PM UTC-8, Patrick D Kelly wrote:
>
> This may be sacrilege, but I use a racktime top-it front rack on a couple 
> bikes to support a large riv/wald basket.
>
> http://www.rei.com/product/852184/racktime-top-it-front-bike-rack
>
> I then load up the basket, and tie sleeping bags and tents to the 
> underside of the basket/rack.
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/14750182765/in/album-72157635342528758/
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/14750181825/in/album-72157635342528758/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/23775311590/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/23703161619/
>
>
> no problems so far. :)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Robert F. Harrison  > wrote:
>
>> If you don't already have a mini or marks then the suggestions are good. 
>> If you do, you might try looking for one of riv's platracks from a few 
>> years back. It's an add on that makes a great base for a large basket.
>>
>> https://flic.kr/p/7CP2E4
>>
>> Someone's probably got one they don't need (not me though, I'm planning 
>> on using it again soon). :-)
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:22 AM Jim S.  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning all,
>>>
>>> I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a 
>>> large Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither 
>>> the mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket. 
>>> So what racks are you using?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any responses.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Jim S.
>>>
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>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 07:09 PM, iamkeith wrote:



On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 4:48:31 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar 
wrote:



???


The "napkin rings" were the cast reinforcements at the top and bottom 
of the headtubes, which have recessed lettering. Together, they were 
supposed to say "RBW - EST 1994"  but the production versions ended up 
saying "RBW - RBW"   I'm quite sure they are already aware of this 
botch, though.




Ah.

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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Justin August]

Well the Saluki sure isn't inspired by the 90's or 00's road racing 
bicycles!

-J

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 2:57:52 PM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:39:16 PM UTC-8, Justin August wrote:
>>
>> So - just so I understand, for mostly academic reasons, not that I'm 
>> going to enter, but maybe?
>> I could use my Saluki _if_ I used
>> - non-aero levers
>> - Downtime shifters
>> - Shallow rims ala the Pacenti PL23 in 32 spoke or more
>> - Pedals with clips and straps
>>
>> Is that all?
>>
>  
> The rules specifically states:  
>  
> Vintage-Looking Bikes with steel frame from new or recent construction 
> with vintage look and characteristics may be used only if they are *road 
> racing bikes* assembled using vintage components or replicated parts 
> similar to the original as described above. In particular if the bikes are 
> inspired by the design of *road racing bicycles of the 1970’s and 1980’s*, 
> they must comply with rules a), b), and c) above, regarding shift levers, 
> toe clips and straps, and brake cables. (emphasis added).
>  
> So the question is whether your Saluki would fit in as a "road racing 
> bicycle of the 70s and 80s?!" Good Luck! 
>
>>
>> -J
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:32:38 PM UTC-8, Justin August wrote:
>>>
>>> You can get some from SOMA right now for 20% off!
>>> -J
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:

 6.1(a) and 6.1(c) might be hard for many Rivendell owners to meet, 
 that being, downtube shifters required and brake cables that go over 
 the handlebars.  I don't recall Rivendell selling brake levers with 
 the traditional out-the-top cable arrangement in recent years. 

 But otherwise, it sounds like an awesome event. 

 On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Jim M.  wrote: 
 > I know some of you listers did this ride last year because I saw you 
 there. 
 > Early, discounted registration for the 2016 ride ends tomorrow. 
 > 
 > http://www.eroicacalifornia.com/ 
 > 
 > I will be there with my Eisentraut, sitting on my Riv/BOB-ish Brooks 
 saddle 
 > and rolling on 30mm tubulars. 
 > 
 > I'm just posting this as a reminder, and not trying to start a 
 polemic. But 
 > I know some of you can't resist whining about the rules or caviling 
 in 
 > general, so let the kvetching begin. 
 > 
 > Winter cheers! 
 > jim m 
 > wc ca 
 > 
 > -- 
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 Groups 
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 send an 
 > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
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 > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 



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 signature goes here 

>>>

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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Brewster Fong]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:39:16 PM UTC-8, Justin August wrote:
>
> So - just so I understand, for mostly academic reasons, not that I'm going 
> to enter, but maybe?
> I could use my Saluki _if_ I used
> - non-aero levers
> - Downtime shifters
> - Shallow rims ala the Pacenti PL23 in 32 spoke or more
> - Pedals with clips and straps
>
> Is that all?
>
 
The rules specifically states:  
 
Vintage-Looking Bikes with steel frame from new or recent construction with 
vintage look and characteristics may be used only if they are *road racing 
bikes* assembled using vintage components or replicated parts similar to 
the original as described above. In particular if the bikes are inspired by 
the design of *road racing bicycles of the 1970’s and 1980’s*, they must 
comply with rules a), b), and c) above, regarding shift levers, toe clips 
and straps, and brake cables. (emphasis added).
 
So the question is whether your Saluki would fit in as a "road racing 
bicycle of the 70s and 80s?!" Good Luck! 

>
> -J
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:32:38 PM UTC-8, Justin August wrote:
>>
>> You can get some from SOMA right now for 20% off!
>> -J
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>>
>>> 6.1(a) and 6.1(c) might be hard for many Rivendell owners to meet, 
>>> that being, downtube shifters required and brake cables that go over 
>>> the handlebars.  I don't recall Rivendell selling brake levers with 
>>> the traditional out-the-top cable arrangement in recent years. 
>>>
>>> But otherwise, it sounds like an awesome event. 
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Jim M.  wrote: 
>>> > I know some of you listers did this ride last year because I saw you 
>>> there. 
>>> > Early, discounted registration for the 2016 ride ends tomorrow. 
>>> > 
>>> > http://www.eroicacalifornia.com/ 
>>> > 
>>> > I will be there with my Eisentraut, sitting on my Riv/BOB-ish Brooks 
>>> saddle 
>>> > and rolling on 30mm tubulars. 
>>> > 
>>> > I'm just posting this as a reminder, and not trying to start a 
>>> polemic. But 
>>> > I know some of you can't resist whining about the rules or caviling in 
>>> > general, so let the kvetching begin. 
>>> > 
>>> > Winter cheers! 
>>> > jim m 
>>> > wc ca 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups 
>>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an 
>>> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
>>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. 
>>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -- 
>>> signature goes here 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Soma Supple Vitesse EX 700x42c tires

[Peter Adler]

Just for general information: How wide were the tires when you de-mounted 
them? And what rims were you using? It'd be useful to know how much these 
tires grow under pressure.

Peter "almost certainly don't have a bike that will fit these, although my 
Bertin Americain is an outside possibilty" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:11:37 PM UTC-8, William! wrote:
>
> Bought these to see what everyone is talking about. They are round and 
> roll fast, basically a wider Jack Brown Green. However, this is the version 
> without the Kevlar belt and I found I wanted more flat protection for my 
> daily commute. Alas, my adventuring bike cannot fit such a girth. According 
> to Ride Report, these tires have 176 miles on them.
>
> $80 shipped for the pair, $70 for PDX pickup.
>

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[RBW] Re: 25% off ANYTHING in Web Specials!!!

[Deacon Patrick]

No kidding! If only that big windfall had already arrived! Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 3:37:33 PM UTC-7, Christopher Murray 
wrote:
>
> PSA: Coupon on the Blug says 25% off anything in Web Specials. It does not 
> say it excludes bikes. Man oh man if only there was something in my size. I 
> put a complete bike in the cart and the coupon worked so I assume it is 
> legit.
>
> Chris
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[William deRosset]

Dear Keith,

A set of four (two pair) of the concave/convex washers sold with v-brake pads 
would sort that issue, one on either side of the fender. The best solution 
would have been for that threaded boss to have been oriented to the axis of the 
hub, I.e. rotating the boss  fifteen degrees or so. Complain, and they'll fix 
it on the next batch. Or not.

Best, 

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins

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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Peter Adler]

"Pre-1980" barcons are also permitted. Campagnolo and pre-index Suntour are 
commonly mentioned, but you'd probably get a bye for Silvers.

As for non-aero brake levers, internally frame-routed cables are permitted. 
So if you've got a better-quality French frame or a lower-quality Italian 
city frame (for some reason, a lot of these have internal rear brake 
cables), you don't have to get cable clamps to stay within the letter of 
the rules.

Peter "doesn't own a running bike *without* drop bars" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> 6.1(a) and 6.1(c) might be hard for many Rivendell owners to meet, 
> that being, downtube shifters required and brake cables that go over 
> the handlebars.  I don't recall Rivendell selling brake levers with 
> the traditional out-the-top cable arrangement in recent years. 
>
> But otherwise, it sounds like an awesome event.
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[iamkeith]

The boss on the underside of the brace is threaded.  But it is NOT at a 
right angle to the face of the fender, where it wants to be.Hard to 
show in a picture, so I'm slightly exaggerating in the photo below, just 
for illustration's sake.   Just slightly.  On your bike, the stays point 
directly at the dropout/axle, so everything is "in line" as you say, and 
aimed more-or-less directly at what would be the center of the arc of the 
fender.   On the clem, the hole is parallel to the stays where the brace 
happens to be attached, but the stays at that point are not pointed 
anywhere near the axle/dropout.  So there ends up being a wedge-shaped gap 
between the top of the fender and the bottom of the boss.   If I tried to 
firmly clamp the fender at that point, it would significantly deform and/or 
pull the fender out of alignment and/or stress the fender & bolt.  




I think the idea of sandwiching the fender between flexible rubber donuts 
will work.   Sort of like the way stud-mounted shock absorbers attache on 
some vehicles, to allow a variable angle.  I'll need to use a pair of nuts 
to lock against each other at the top, since it will not be possible to 
snug the bolt against anything.  






Only problem with this approach is that it will increase the length of the 
protrusion at the underside of the fender.   So I'm still open to other 
ideas, like the ones Ted suggests.  I'll look at bending the stock mounting 
tab, but it doesn't seem like it will quite work.  Am hoping someone has 
already dealt with this



Not sure I understand.  Does the seatstay brace have a threaded boss or 
> not?  This sure looks to me as though it's already drilled and tapped.
>
>
>
> If it its, you drill up through the fender directly under the threaded 
> hole.  As far as the fender surface and the seat stay are concerned, it's 
> all in line.  Where it is with respect to the hub (i.e., curvature of the 
> stays) shouldn't matter at all, and wouldn't put any stress on the fender.  
>
> Or is the issue that the hole is drilled at a slant, and won't be at right 
> angles to the fender surface?  Looking at what looks like a bolt head in 
> your photo, it looks as though it's straight through.  (I just don't know 
> what that little "nub" under the stay in this photo is.)
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[iamkeith]

I think that's a good idea too!.  I'll try it. You are definitely 
visualizing the problem anyway.   Meanwhile, you bring up a question I've 
had:

I don't want to "complain" at all.  I'm not unhappy.   But, being a distant 
mail-order-only customer, I have no personal relationship with Rivendell. 
 What do Grant and the crew think about getting unsolicited "feedback?"  I 
have this image in my mind that they get random complaints and 
"suggestions" all the time from armchair bike designers, and I don't want 
to be one of 'those guys.'  It does seem like something that should be 
addressed on future batches or future bikes though.  (Along with reversing 
the bottom napkin ring and whatever other little glitches are discovered.) 
 On the other hand, I always got the feeling that this particular bike was 
intended, as much as anything,  as a way to use up some lugs and parts that 
didn't get used elsewhere, and as an experiment with maxing-out the  new 
chainstays - but that it wasn't going to be around indefinitely.  If that's 
the case, its hardly worth sweating such minor details.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 4:18:23 PM UTC-7, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Keith,
>
> A set of four (two pair) of the concave/convex washers sold with v-brake 
> pads would sort that issue, one on either side of the fender. The best 
> solution would have been for that threaded boss to have been oriented to 
> the axis of the hub, I.e. rotating the boss  fifteen degrees or so. 
> Complain, and they'll fix it on the next batch. Or not.
>
> Best, 
>
> Will
> William M deRosset
> Fort Collins
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

I see.  That wasn't at all clear in the other photos, but it is here.

On 12/30/2015 06:23 PM, iamkeith wrote:
The boss on the underside of the brace is threaded.  But it is NOT at 
a right angle to the face of the fender, where it wants to be.Hard 
to show in a picture, so I'm slightly exaggerating in the photo below, 
just for illustration's sake. Just slightly.  On your bike, the stays 
point directly at the dropout/axle, so everything is "in line" as you 
say, and aimed more-or-less directly at what would be the center of 
the arc of the fender.   On the clem, the hole is parallel to the 
stays where the brace happens to be attached, but the stays at that 
point are not pointed anywhere near the axle/dropout.  So there ends 
up being a wedge-shaped gap between the top of the fender and the 
bottom of the boss.   If I tried to firmly clamp the fender at that 
point, it would significantly deform and/or pull the fender out of 
alignment and/or stress the fender & bolt.






I think the idea of sandwiching the fender between flexible rubber 
donuts will work.   Sort of like the way stud-mounted shock absorbers 
attache on some vehicles, to allow a variable angle.  I'll need to use 
a pair of nuts to lock against each other at the top, since it will 
not be possible to snug the bolt against anything.







Only problem with this approach is that it will increase the length of 
the protrusion at the underside of the fender.   So I'm still open to 
other ideas, like the ones Ted suggests.  I'll look at bending the 
stock mounting tab, but it doesn't seem like it will quite work.  Am 
hoping someone has already dealt with this




That rubber shim "underneath" could be a tapered washer, it doesn't have 
to be rubber.



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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Relaxed Rear Geometry & Actual Effect

[masmojo]

It occurs to me that having a slack STA is probably necessary in situations 
where you have fewer frame sizes (like the Clem/Clementine) because as the seat 
post is raised it opens up the effective top tube distance allowing the frame 
to accommodate a broader range of riders. 

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[RBW] Re: Christmas Clementine

[masmojo]

WOW! That's the best looking Clementine build I've seen so far & I've built 
two! LOL
I went with the Big Ben tire due to the frame having mountain bikeish tire 
clearance; I was afraid narrower tires would look lost in the frame, but I 
guess with the fenders it helps fill out the extra space!? Those clay colored 
tires really make any bike look classy.
I'll keep the Big Bens on mine though because I mostly use it for utilitarian 
duty and the additional volume helps in situations where I have to go over 
curbs & navigate pot hole while loaded.
Lucky girl indeed! I hope she really uses it, whenever I've bought a girl a 
bike it's been a waste of money, because they mostly sit, but hope springs 
eternal!

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[RBW] Hilsen or Atlantis

[erik balsbaugh]

Hello group! 

I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back yard. I rode 
this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of late had used the 
bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son around in a trailer. 

On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife for 
Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am now 
hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be the best 
choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to commuting to 
work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a trailer. 

Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a PBH of 
87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll run into 
the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant struggle get my bike 
back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike since there 
ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area. 

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Re: [RBW] Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Patrick Kelly]

This may be sacrilege, but I use a racktime top-it front rack on a couple
bikes to support a large riv/wald basket.

http://www.rei.com/product/852184/racktime-top-it-front-bike-rack

I then load up the basket, and tie sleeping bags and tents to the underside
of the basket/rack.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/14750182765/in/album-72157635342528758/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/14750181825/in/album-72157635342528758/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/23775311590/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/phlatphrog/23703161619/


no problems so far. :)


On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Robert F. Harrison 
wrote:

> If you don't already have a mini or marks then the suggestions are good.
> If you do, you might try looking for one of riv's platracks from a few
> years back. It's an add on that makes a great base for a large basket.
>
> https://flic.kr/p/7CP2E4
>
> Someone's probably got one they don't need (not me though, I'm planning on
> using it again soon). :-)
>
> Aloha,
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:22 AM Jim S.  wrote:
>
>> Good morning all,
>>
>> I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a
>> large Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither
>> the mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket.
>> So what racks are you using?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any responses.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jim S.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 06:32 PM, iamkeith wrote:
I think that's a good idea too!.  I'll try it. You are definitely 
visualizing the problem anyway.   Meanwhile, you bring up a question 
I've had:


I don't want to "complain" at all.  I'm not unhappy.   But, being a 
distant mail-order-only customer, I have no personal relationship with 
Rivendell.  What do Grant and the crew think about getting unsolicited 
"feedback?"


I think they'd better like it, because they're getting plenty of it here 
and if they didn't I think we'd have heard about it by now.



I have this image in my mind that they get random complaints and 
"suggestions" all the time from armchair bike designers, and I don't 
want to be one of 'those guys.'


This doesn't fall into that class at all.  This is a case of "Hey, the 
way you made that thing makes it damned hard for me to put fenders on 
the bike. Hard to believe that was intentional, was there a screw-up 
somewhere?"  That's not a "random suggestion from an armchair designer."



It does seem like something that should be addressed on future batches 
or future bikes though.  (Along with reversing the bottom napkin ring


???

and whatever other little glitches are discovered.)  On the other 
hand, I always got the feeling that this particular bike was intended, 
as much as anything,  as a way to use up some lugs and parts that 
didn't get used elsewhere, and as an experiment with maxing-out the 
 new chainstays - but that it wasn't going to be around indefinitely. 
 If that's the case, its hardly worth sweating such minor details.


It's always worth sweating the details.



On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 4:18:23 PM UTC-7, William deRosset 
wrote:


Dear Keith,

A set of four (two pair) of the concave/convex washers sold with
v-brake pads would sort that issue, one on either side of the
fender. The best solution would have been for that threaded boss
to have been oriented to the axis of the hub, I.e. rotating the
boss  fifteen degrees or so. Complain, and they'll fix it on the
next batch. Or not.




I think we already did that for him... :-)
(complain, I mean)


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[RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[Deacon Patrick]

Sounds like you've mostly answered you own question. Based on my 
experience/love/abuse of my Quickbeam, which is a roadie weight frame 
closer to the AHH than the Atlantis, the AHH will serve you brilliantly. Go 
for it!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 4:36:40 PM UTC-7, erik balsbaugh wrote:
>
> Hello group! 
>
> I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back yard. I 
> rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of late had 
> used the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son around in a 
> trailer. 
>
> On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife for 
> Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am now 
> hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be the 
> best choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to 
> commuting to work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a 
> trailer. 
>
> Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a 
> PBH of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll 
> run into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant struggle 
> get my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike 
> since there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area. 

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Re: [RBW] Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Patrick Moore]

No, what I wanted would have required a new custom even after the singles
came out, since the QB and SO don't have what I want in a fixed gear bike.

Likewise without the "destructive" mods, I would not have had the kind of
bicycle I wanted, as I said before.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On 12/30/2015 10:23 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Well, I had a custom derailleur Rivendell modified to long horizontals
> without derailleur hangar (and had the dt shifter bosses removed, too);
> this is just the opposite case. My own excuse is, that I loved the way the
> bike fit and handled, but preferred a dedicated fixed gear drivetrain,
> and I didn't have the $ for a new custom Rivendell. I've been happy with
> this mod for getting on for 10 years. Perhaps the owner loved his SO but
> preferred derailleurs, and didn't want to spend for another Rivendell?
>
> I suppose I take a more liberal view of bicycle modification than many,
> but my guiding principle is, if you really have thought the modification
> through, and there are good reasons why alternatives won't work as well for
> you, all variables considered, do it. A bike is meant for riding, and
> riding is meant to give the rider pleasure, so do what is most pleasant.
>
>
> Well, except that your modification was destructive and not reversible,
> and his could have been ignored and the bike run as a single-speed as
> originally designed even after having been modified.  Not that I'm saying
> his made any sense economically: I agree with Jim, there are plenty of
> other Riv models that already did that job.  At the time you made those
> mods, the single-speed/fixie models had not yet been designed.
>
>
>
> I agree that whimsical mods are silly. I'm just not sure this is one of
> them.
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Jim Bronson 
> wrote:
>
>> Why would anyone do this?  There are other Rivendell models that fit
>> this role without frame modification.
>>
>> I don't mean to be overly negative but this is seriously (expletive)
>> stupid.
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[ted]

I have alway thought the reason for adjusting the fenders curve was to 
match the tire and get the fender line one wants.
If your fender doesn't match your tire radius they way you want it to, you 
have to adjust the fender or live with the miss-match.
For me that is a separate issue from bridge placement and spacers (unless 
of course the bridge blocks where the fender needs to go to get the line I 
want).

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:32:58 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 12/30/2015 11:18 AM, ted wrote: 
> > Actually, though it can be a bit tedious, it is not difficult to be 
> > very precise with spacers/shims. 
> > Therefore I believe your presumption that they can not be used 
> > successfully with metal fenders is wrong. 
>
> If "tedious" bothers anyone, they should avoid metal fenders as they 
> would the plague, because no matter what their installation is going to 
> be tedious.  If you can make things fit with spacers and not have to 
> adjust the curve of the fender by hand, then great -- because that's not 
> only time consuming, it can be downright difficult and painful, and 
> that's with soft, easily manipulated aluminum.  I'd hate to think about 
> doing it with stainless. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Michael Rivers]

https://flic.kr/p/pBp2SL

This is a picture of the front before I added the rack and basket. The grey 
cable housing goes to a clamp on cable stop that I sourced from Riv. The 
shifter cable continues under the BB shell which on my silver QB has metal 
cable guides on the bottom. The cable continues on to the S3X hub connection. 

Note the Paul Minimoto front break which fits behind the rack and basket 
nicely. 

Since I bought this new from Riv in 2009, I have had a lot of fun with 
different drive trains. See the whole set here:
https://flickr.com/photos/63018801@N00/sets/72157618452191962

Michael

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

As the original poster, I'd like to just say that I was only asking for 
some guidance on an attachment point I had not previously dealt with, not 
whining! I would not say I have an abhorrence of spacers; I've set up a few 
custom spring things at the chainstay points on bikes with horizontal 
dropouts. Though I would say fender fussing is not on my top ten fun things 
to do with a bicycle! In any case, thanks everyone for toning it down and 
making it useful--after all, who wants a fender bender to start the new 
year?!  I think I can work it out from here. Thanks to all, and to all a 
happy new year!










On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:18:33 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>
> Easy and hard are subjective assessments made by the person doing the 
> work, but ...
> I don't think it is accurate to say that "Rivendells are typically not 
> really very well set up for fendering." They take fenders just fine. They 
> all have room for fenders, they all have fender eyelets so you don't have 
> to use p clamps, they all have chainstay bridges or kickstand plates that 
> accommodate bolting a fender there.
> Apparently some folks find using spacers hard. I don't, and I doubt I am 
> alone in that view. The only thing I have ever encountered that really made 
> putting fenders on a bike hard was there not being room for them. 
> I am a bit mystified by the fixation on equidistant bridges (or kickstand 
> plates), and abhorrence of spacers some folks seem to have.
> If one orders a custom built bike and feels strongly about such details 
> then by all means make your preferences known and the builder should honor 
> them. Otherwise, if the fenders fit stop whining.
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 4:06:07 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> "Maybe I expected too much."
>>
>> I think your definition of "perfect fenders" is identical to mine.  If I 
>> specified a custom, I would specify "perfect fenders" and I would specify 
>> what I mean by perfect fenders in the minute detail and I would expect to 
>> get them.  I don't know if you have actually ever specified a custom 
>> frame.  I know you purchased at least one bike that was originally built 
>> custom for somebody else, your Longstaff, but I don't think you had 
>> anything to do with the original spec.  I also know that you bought a 
>> M.A.P. Randonneur Project, which has some custom aspects.  Mitch builds 
>> perfect fenderability whether you specify that or not, as I understand it.  
>>
>> My Atlantis has perfectly equidistant bridges in the back.  Since I'm 
>> using tires that are far skinnier than the max, I've chosen to use a 5mm 
>> spacer at both bridges, but it's the identical 5mm spacer at both spots, as 
>> it should be.  If I needed no spacer at the seatstay bridge and needed a 
>> >1.5" spacer at the chainstay bridge, I would be disappointed, just like 
>> you.  I might even ask for a new frame.  I would probably not use that 
>> situation to conclude that the bicycle company responsible for it was 
>> consistently or "typically" sloppy or careless.  
>>
>> Specifically, I bought one of those factory refurbished "Renovelo" frames 
>> from Rivendell.  It was badly out of alignment, but it passed the string 
>> test.  Riv had checked it with the string test and didn't check it on a 
>> frame table or by putting a wheel in it.  I returned it and Rivendell more 
>> than made it right.  If I wanted to, I could have made a big deal about it, 
>> claiming Rivendell was sloppy or didn't care about quality.  I could have 
>> told that story as often as you have talked about that small Atlantis.  Or, 
>> I could let them take care of it to my satisfaction and be done with it.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:09:15 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/29/2015 05:39 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
>>> > Steve 
>>> > 
>>> > You will be pleased to know my Hillborne has a threaded boss on the 
>>> > underside of the seatstay bridge, perfectly placed for easy fender 
>>> > installation.  My Hillborne has a threaded boss on the trailing edge 
>>> > of its kickstand plate, perfectly placed for easy perfect fender 
>>> > line.  All my Rivendells have vertical dropouts, which allow me to 
>>> > achieve good fenderlines.  I've owned several Rivendells and none of 
>>> > them required a wine cork. 
>>>
>>> I am indeed pleased to hear that.   It's what we should expect on a 
>>> quality frame, and other than issues with misplaced bridges Rivendells 
>>> certainly are quality frames. 
>>>
>>>
>>> > So from my perspective "typical" is very good fenderability.  Not 
>>> > perfect, but very good.  I was pleased to inspect the Appaloosa 
>>> > frameset and find an inward facing threaded boss on the seatstay 
>>> > bridge.  I hope they are equidistant, as you would hope.  So, not 

[RBW] Hilsen or Atlantis

[Kainalu]

58 Homer on Web specials, 25% off with the new years coupon from the blug. I 
think it would do everything you need at a very nice price, and you wouldn't 
need to wait on it.
-Kai
Brooklyn NY 

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[RBW] Re: Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Minh]

I think your question needs a little more clarification, what would you 
like to carry in the basket?  I have a wald large on my QB and i use a 
nitto mini+platrack.  i added the platrack because i like to carry as much 
as possible (car battery, watermelon, gallon of milk), but if i was not 
carrying such heavy loads and only carrying light things (like sleepbags, 
jackets, etc that RBW usually show) then i think a nitto mini or mark's 
rack alone would be fine.  

nitto r14 in the front is another option, but i think the pletscher is a 
better value.  like bill i also use a BFR on another bike, but i think 
that's a little overkill :)

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 1:22:12 PM UTC-5, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Good morning all,
>
> I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a 
> large Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither 
> the mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket. 
> So what racks are you using?
>
> Thanks in advance for any responses.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim S.
>

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[RBW] Re: Mounting a Large Front Basket

[Leslie]

I mounted a Cosmo on the front of my Bomba, then mounted a Platrack on top 
of it:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/7729133174/in/album-72157623199721925/
 


Then, I can ziptie the Wald onto the Platrack, which more fully supports it:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/22755349636/in/album-72157623199721925/
 





On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 1:22:12 PM UTC-5, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Good morning all,
>
> I was interested in group-member opinions on the best rack to mount a 
> large Wald basket on the front of your Rivendell. I'm thinking that neither 
> the mini-front rack, nor Mark's Rack, is ideal to support the large basket. 
> So what racks are you using?
>
> Thanks in advance for any responses.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim S.
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[iamkeith]

Oops.  Deleted my previous post becasue I just realized I was asking the 
exact same question that Mark was asking in the other thread, which was 
what initiated this thread in the first place.  Didn't really see an answer 
yet though, so let me simplify my question:

I don't worry, in theory, about drilling up through the rear fender, for 
attachment directly to the seatstay brace.   What I worry about is the fact 
that, because of the curvature of the seatstays on the clem,  the hole on 
the brace is not oriented axially toward the center of the wheel (or 
fender).  It aims several inches forward of the axle.   So bolting tightly 
to it would put a lot of stress on the fender, and deform it or pull 
through after some use.   Or would bend the bolt if I used a spacer.  It's 
a pretty significant angle discrepancy when you see it in person - at least 
on the 59 clem.  

Does anybody know of another elegant way to do this?  Perhaps by adding a 
second bracket between the factory clip and the mounting hole?  Or using 
spherical disc brake hardware, or something of the sort, to compensate for 
the difference in angle?



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Re: [RBW] PSA: Eroica California early registration

[Joe Bernard]

I believe dropbars are required, too. I consider myself a somewhat retrogrouchy 
dude, but I don't have any bikes with even one of those features. How did this 
happen??

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[iamkeith]

Thanks, Steve.  I guess I was clarifying/correcting my question as you were 
responding.  You may have inadvertently answered it though:  If I use some 
sort of thick rubber that can deform, on both sides of the fender, that may 
solve the problem just fine.

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 04:45 PM, iamkeith wrote:
I don't worry, in theory, about drilling up through the rear fender, 
for attachment directly to the seatstay brace. What I worry about is 
the fact that, because of the curvature of the seatstays on the clem, 
 the hole on the brace is not oriented axially toward the center of 
the wheel (or fender).  It aims several inches forward of the axle.   
So bolting tightly to it would put a lot of stress on the fender, and 
deform it or pull through after some use.   Or would bend the bolt if 
I used a spacer.  It's a pretty significant angle discrepancy when you 
see it in person - at least on the 59 clem. 


Not sure I understand.  Does the seatstay brace have a threaded boss or 
not?  This sure looks to me as though it's already drilled and tapped.




If it its, you drill up through the fender directly under the threaded 
hole.  As far as the fender surface and the seat stay are concerned, 
it's all in line.  Where it is with respect to the hub (i.e., curvature 
of the stays) shouldn't matter at all, and wouldn't put any stress on 
the fender.


Or is the issue that the hole is drilled at a slant, and won't be at 
right angles to the fender surface?  Looking at what looks like a bolt 
head in your photo, it looks as though it's straight through. (I just 
don't know what that little "nub" under the stay in this photo is.)


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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[ted]

iamkieth,

It looks like you might have room to bend the tang of your sliding bridge 
over into the tangent orientation and then use a hex head bolt to attach it 
to the bottom side of the bridge. I think I would try something along those 
lines before messing with cutting/filing wedge shaped spacers to account 
for the angle miss match. If the sliding bridge won't work the way Im 
suggesting, perhaps bolt a piece of flat stock to the bridge extending aft 
and then bolt to the fender to that behind the bridge?

Did you really mean disk brake hardware in your last sentence, or were you 
thinking of the spherical washers on regular brake pad holders that are 
used to adjust toe in? In any case those might bear looking into too.


On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 1:45:49 PM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Oops.  Deleted my previous post becasue I just realized I was asking the 
> exact same question that Mark was asking in the other thread, which was 
> what initiated this thread in the first place.  Didn't really see an answer 
> yet though, so let me simplify my question:
>
> I don't worry, in theory, about drilling up through the rear fender, for 
> attachment directly to the seatstay brace.   What I worry about is the fact 
> that, because of the curvature of the seatstays on the clem,  the hole on 
> the brace is not oriented axially toward the center of the wheel (or 
> fender).  It aims several inches forward of the axle.   So bolting tightly 
> to it would put a lot of stress on the fender, and deform it or pull 
> through after some use.   Or would bend the bolt if I used a spacer.  It's 
> a pretty significant angle discrepancy when you see it in person - at least 
> on the 59 clem.  
>
> Does anybody know of another elegant way to do this?  Perhaps by adding a 
> second bracket between the factory clip and the mounting hole?  Or using 
> spherical disc brake hardware, or something of the sort, to compensate for 
> the difference in angle?
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] 25% off ANYTHING in Web Specials!!!

[Christopher Murray]

PSA: Coupon on the Blug says 25% off anything in Web Specials. It does not say 
it excludes bikes. Man oh man if only there was something in my size. I put a 
complete bike in the cart and the coupon worked so I assume it is legit.

Chris

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[RBW] Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[LBleriot]

I'd like to say that I equip my bikes with function over form, but I'd be 
lying.  I found those Sun XCD components a few years back, and I'm a sucker for 
them.  Now, I sport them on my Ram, Rom, Roadeo, Bleriot and Custom 650B.  They 
shift 9 and 10 speed chains with friction and indexed shifters flawlessly.  I 
can't bring myself to shell out for the cranks so I run VO/IRD shiny silver 
ones.  New Shimano, Campy and SRAM carbon or matte finishes repulse me.  Oh, 
the vanity!

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Re: [RBW] Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Patrick Moore]

Photos, pretty please?

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 3:06 PM, LBleriot  wrote:

> I'd like to say that I equip my bikes with function over form, but I'd be
> lying.  I found those Sun XCD components a few years back, and I'm a sucker
> for them.  Now, I sport them on my Ram, Rom, Roadeo, Bleriot and Custom
> 650B.  They shift 9 and 10 speed chains with friction and indexed shifters
> flawlessly.  I can't bring myself to shell out for the cranks so I run
> VO/IRD shiny silver ones.  New Shimano, Campy and SRAM carbon or matte
> finishes repulse me.  Oh, the vanity!
>
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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[iamkeith]

Awesome.  That is a true "hack."Does that mean that you've actually 
been getting rain and snow in the desert this winter?  I've been meaning to 
tell you how impressed I am with the way you've figured out and dialed-in 
that bike already.  I've been riding one or more bontragers continuously 
since 1994.  For 8 years, my Race was my only functioning bike.  Then it 
had a baby seat mounted to it.   Had a Race Lite briefly, but decided I'm 
too heavy.  Now on a Ti lite, but working on a non-suspension-corrected OR 
at the moment.   Thing is, it took me decades to figure out some of the 
things you already did  - like  how much better it rides with a shorter 
stem, more seat setback and higher bars. 

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 5:38:07 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> That looks like a design or a production flaw, to me. If I were you, I'd 
> hack a wedge-shaped spacer, and then complain to Rivendell.
>
> I've had my own, self-imposed fender hassles, but nothing like this!
>
> I append for comic relief the fender arrangement (I am going to market 
> this system under the trade name, HalfAssed Fenders) I hacked today for my 
> Race Lite, which has no fender bosses, no hole in the fork crown, and brake 
> boosters that clear the new, larger tires by about 1/4".
>
>
>

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[RBW] FS: White Industries, Velocity 700C Wheelset

[Johnny Alien]

This is a great wheelset.  Older White Industries 32 hole hubs laced to 
Velocity Aerohead rims. Rear spacing is 130mm. New bearings in the rear and 
they roll perfect and straight.  Just gone over. No skewers. Rear hub takes 
a Shimano cassette - 9 speed.

$300 shipped OBO.

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[RBW] Re: Hilsen or Atlantis

[erik balsbaugh]

Done, Ordered a 59, but based on your very similar stats worried I might 
have gotten a size too small? 



On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:01:08 PM UTC-6, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> BTW, I am 185 and have an 87cm standover.
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 10:00:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>> 61cm AHH owner here. Used for kid hauling (Burley Piccolo), commuting to 
>> work and completed my first 200k brevet this past October. I vote for the 
>> AHH but I am biased. ;-).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:48:27 PM UTC-5, Kainalu wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wsf-172.htm
>>> Leather bar tape!! Wishing it was a 71cm...
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:36:40 PM UTC-5, erik balsbaugh 
>>> wrote:

 Hello group! 

 I recently had my baby, a rivendell Atlantis stolen out of my back 
 yard. I rode this baby on an 8k mile tour around the country, but as of 
 late had used the bike mainly as a commuter and a bike to haul my son 
 around in a trailer. 

 On the bright side, insurance covered some of the costs, and my wife 
 for Christmas got me a gift card to cover the rest to replace it. But am 
 now hemming on getting another Atlantis and thinking that an AHH may be 
 the 
 best choice as I am looking to getting into Brevets, in addition to 
 commuting to work and occasionally dragging the kiddos to school in a 
 trailer. 

 Could the homer handle all of the above? I weigh around 180, and with a 
 PBH of 87.5 I'd probably be on the 59 AHH. Also holding out hope that I'll 
 run into the thief somewhere in Cambridge MA and through a valiant 
 struggle 
 get my bike back (wont happen). But would like to have a more roadies bike 
 since there ain't too many fire roads in the greater Boston area. 
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 25% off ANYTHING in Web Specials!!!

[Patrick Kelly]

I'm trying to get one woolpower quarter zip with the 25% off, but it's
saying the coupon code is not valid. Experimentation shows it works for
other items in "web specials".

Sent email to miesha inquiring...

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Allan in Portland 
wrote:

> Any folks w/ Woolpower able to comment on the fit? Do they run true to
> size, a bit small, "relaxed" cut?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 2:37:33 PM UTC-8, Christopher Murray
> wrote:
>>
>> PSA: Coupon on the Blug says 25% off anything in Web Specials. It does
>> not say it excludes bikes. Man oh man if only there was something in my
>> size. I put a complete bike in the cart and the coupon worked so I assume
>> it is legit.
>>
>> Chris
>>
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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[WETH]

Dear Ron,
Thanks for the information.  Hopefully in the long term they'll perform as well 
as they look.  I like how you matched them to the frame color.
Happy Nee Year!
Erl

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Garth]

If a suitable part is available in silver, great. If not, so what ? !   
Would I pay double just a shiny silver or a black of the same thing ? 
Likely not .  Especially when it comes to real small stuff like derailers , 
heck really any part on a bike is "small" compared to the frame !  

Oh vanity of vanities . . .  where art thou ?   No-where ! 


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[RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[JohnS]

I'm very happy with my two speed fixed Bendix hub on my QB. It's the 
picture of simplicity, I have my cruising gear which I use most of the time 
and a 25% reduction low gear for the tough hills or when I'm feeling a 
little less motivated. Two issues though, spinning out the cruising gear on 
a down hill requires riding the brakes and the other is that to enjoy the 
bike, I have to get a couple of good rides in a week, at least one of 20+ 
miles and a second around 40 or more. 

I can't understand why someone would have made those modifications to a 
QB/SO. 

JohnS


On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 1:11:38 PM UTC-5, nathaniel nichols wrote:

> Found this on local CL, not mine, but I would think the dropout would make 
> it shift funny or just kinda annoying to change a flat..idk looks fun 
> though 
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/5375840206.html

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Ron Mc]

thanks again, at one point, with the red anodize on the shifters, Miche 
hubs and QRs, I just made the decision to splash it with red anodize 
wherever I could.  Everything there is a really dark wine color, though 
light may cause it to photo pinkish.  But be careful, there is a lot of 
pink anodize out there marketed as red (VP001s are lipstick pink)

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:55:28 AM UTC-6, WETH wrote:
>
> Dear Ron
> Thanks for the information.  Hopefully in the long term they'll perform as 
> well as they look.  I like how you matched them to the frame color.
> Happy Nee Year!
> Erl

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[JohnS]

I'll buy used parts if they are good and at a low price, usually shinny, 
but I'm a sucker for old school Shimano LX rear derailleurs in black.

JohnS


On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:06:12 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:

> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Abcyclehank]

Christopher,
My 68cm Quickbeam is set up as a 3 speed.  Although the bike functions great as 
is I am switching back to its original build.  Let me know if you might be 
interested in either the wheelset or rear wheel and shifter.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 01:47 AM, Joe Bernard wrote:

That's how it works in my head, too, Ted. I grew up on friction 10-speeds, so 
my first relationship with shifters was pulling up to bigger cogs, pushing down 
to smaller.


Sure, if you were using bar end shifters.  With downtube levers, of 
course, it's the opposite direction...




This made perfect sense to us who learned that shifting was moving a chain around with 
our hands. But there's a whole generation who relate to shifting as "click that 
thing there and the gear changes." For them it may make more sense to have the 
clicky things use the same paddles for easier and harder. I doubt I could ever get used 
to it..my brain is locked on following the chain to bigger or smaller cogs/rings.



Me too.

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[RBW] Re: What stem?

[Garth]

To each our own perspectives !  Ahahahaahahah !!!  ;)   

I'll toast to that ! 

Happy New Year Everyone ! 



On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 6:57:26 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
>  I think I disagree a bit that this bike was meant to be used with any old 
> bar.   I know it's "possible,"  but that doesn't mean it would work "well." 
>   I see this as the poor man's mystery/long bike - and, regardless,  that's 
> the kind of ride I want to achieve with it.  In both cases, Grant 
> absolutely did design the bike and the bar in tandem, to work in unison.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/30/2015 12:34 AM, ted wrote:
I wonder what the fender material has to do with it since I never 
"just grab hold of it, yank in the direction you want and clamp it down".
I use a spacer to support the fender where I want it to get the fender 
line I want (as long as the frame is not in the way).
Is the use of spacers to adjust fit really beyond your comprehension, 
or are you being willfully obtuse?


You cannot use spacers to adjust the line of the curve of the fender.  
With plastic fenders you just pull the fender where you want it to be, 
with metal ones you have to adjust the curve by opening or closing the 
fender opening a bit.  Yes, you can use spacers to fill a gross gap 
between the forward edge of the rear fender and the chain stay bridge 
but you don't have to be very accurate, you can pull the fender to where 
you want it and hold it in place with tension without doing any harm to 
the fender.   Do that with aluminum fenders and they will crack.


As you say, is that "beyond your comprehension, or are you being 
willfully obtuse?"



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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/29/2015 10:36 PM, William deRosset wrote:

Dear Steve,

Sure. The Longstaff was built to carry fenders full-time. The basic Rivendell 
design templates were adapted/lifted from Bridgestone and Schwinn Paramount 
production concepts and standard American build practice. These are not bad 
roots, but they are grounded in a less-specified build concept, that of 
frame+wheels+parts+accessories vs. integrated design.

The Rivendells products I have used were built with horizontal dropouts, and 
used a forward-biased fitting for the chainstay bridge as a result. They were 
built to clear a design tire when inflated, and fender line was apparently not 
a significant priority. Having room for them was an avowed concern.

Besides, the Rivendell sales literature ppked a bit of fun at the Honjo fenders 
in favor of Esges, and made specific reference to the difficulties of Honjo 
setup.



As usual, I think you have got it 100% correct.




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[RBW] Re: Columbus, OH

[Christopher Wiggins]

Hello Ryan

Honestly inventory is pretty low at the moment.  I don't have any framesets 
available.  I do have Clem, Clementine, one Sam, one Chev and a SOMA San 
Marcos.

I've got Appas ordered as well as complete Sams, but I don't think 
framesets will be available until later in the Spring.

Feel free to reach out directly if you like.  wiggly AT a1cyclery DOT com

Thanks!

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 12:44:41 PM UTC-5, Abcyclehank wrote:
>
> Christopher,
> You must be the closest Riv dealer to us here in West Michigan.  What Riv 
> frames or bikes do you have in stock?  Great time for Midwesterners to 
> build bikes etc.
>
> Ryan "looking forward to my next Indy trip" Hankinson
>

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[RBW] FS: Grand Bois Cypres Tires (< 300 miles), $75

[KTY]

SOLD

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Ron Mc]

Hi Erl, they're Raceface Atlas.  Costy, but I found an ebay purchase for 
$52 below retail (and free shipping).  Jury is out on these, because I've 
already had to replace an axle, but the replacement is holding up well.  


Aside from their good looks, I really like their footprint (104mm wide, 
114mm long) and velcro stick.  

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 9:48:11 PM UTC-6, WETH wrote:
>
> Ron,
> That's a beautiful bike.  I like the pedals.  What brand are they?
> Thanks,
> Erl

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Palmer]

Hi Ryan,
I may be interested in the rear wheel if Christopher is not.  
Tom Palmer
just up M120 in Twin Lake, MI

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[RBW] Re: What stem?

[WETH]

Dear Tim,
Regarding your brake lever and hand position, have you considered moving the 
brake levers closer to the stem?  I have albatross bars on my Surly LHT.  My 
preferred hand position is closer to the bar bends near the stem.  So I slid 
the brake levers away from the bar ends and installed some "horns" on the front 
for times I want to be lower.  The set-up works well for me and leaves the 
section of bars near the shifters for when I want a more upright position.  
Best wishes, Erl
Photos here:
https://flic.kr/p/jwACLE
https://flic.kr/p/jwyqeX

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/29/2015 11:52 PM, William deRosset wrote:

Dear Will,

Expanding on my own post--is this a sign of senility?


No more so than a composer taking a delightful short melody and 
expanding it into a full-fledged symphony.   This is a wonderful 
exposition, and I am sure you are 100% correct.  It explains everything.




I did want to point out that  the rear fender lines of early Rivendell 
designs aren't accidental. They are consistent with most 
non-constructeur builds of any era. There were a few Japanese bikes, a 
few now very influential French bikes, and a few British bikes that 
bucked this trend, but they were the exception, not ordinarily widely 
produced, and, significantly, ordinarily featured vertical dropouts.


If you design around maximum "versatility", you build around 
horizontal dropouts (fixed wheel/singlespeed/internal hub 
gear/derailleur gears all work fine), and, if you maximize the tire 
clearance for a given bridge-mounted brake, then you end up with an 
offset chainstay bridge given the dropout configuration--bad fender 
line, but big tire clearance without deflating the rear tire. This is 
the bargain the early Rivendell designs made. You can do anything with 
them, they're lovingly built of the best materials, fantastically 
finished, and they maximized the stock technology of the mid-1990's.


Digression: I bet there is a lag from the widespread switch to 
vertical dropouts and capitializing on the improvement to fender 
alignment made possible by vertical dropouts. It sounds like Grant's 
designs caught up sometime after the early bikes (including my own 
Heron) and the early Atlantis were designed.


This switch to vertical dropouts resulted from a push from the MTB 
world to shorten chainstays, one initiated byGrant Petersen's MB 
designs. It was enthusiastically picked up by the 
22mm-max-tire-crit-racing bike designers that finally drove "road 
bikes" into a ditch that Grant worked hard to avoid with his 
road-going designs, before leading/following his demographic into 
lovely cruisers and non-suspension light mountain bikes. "Gravel 
bikes" and most cyclocross bikes, honestly, are probably the 
non-racer's commercially-available road-bike answer to the mass-market 
road-racing bike, which started to fall into the specialization trap 
starting sometime before I rode road bikes thirty-five years ago, and 
has stayed there, immobilized by strictures of "lighter, stiffer, and 
more aero", and the "purposeful" racing aesthetic of really tight tire 
clearances. Modern racing bikes are a ball to drive, but they're not 
practical machines for most of us. Moving on


In fact, many builders though the mid 2000's, including Waterford, 
just specified a standard cast bit for the chainstay bridge, which, 
depending on the chainstay length and the chainstay configuration, 
would be located in different places relative to the rear axle, but 
well away from the arc of an inflated tire as it was removed from a 
(hypothetical) horizontal dropout. Basically, that one, even if a 
threaded boss was added for a fender, had a go/no go spec, and users 
of fenders could work out how to make up the difference on their own 
time, and if the buyer isn't insisting on more closely-specified 
design, or didn't know to ask, then why torture your builder to locate 
that bridge in a given spot--about an "unimportant" detail?  "It has 
clearance, clarence"


With vertical dropouts and braze-on brakes, there really isn't any 
good functional reason (there are production reasons, but they're 
minor if you care) not to place the bridges equidistant from the wheel 
axis, and there really isn't any good reason not to include a threaded 
boss perpendicular to the fender--unless it isn't a design 
consideration or unless you specifically don't want fenders on the 
bike. Even so, basic good design puts the support structure in the 
right places.  For example, my own Road Sport, built by Waterford 
under contract to Boulder Bicycles, includes equidistant bridges and 
would fit fenders and its design tire fine, even though the bike was 
intended /not/ to accept fenders by its maker (no eyelets, no bridge 
bosses. Mine ended up with one bridge boss, due to a prototyping 
error...) due to the potential horror of toe clip overlap potential on 
racing bikes.





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Re: [RBW] Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Jim Bronson]

Why would anyone do this?  There are other Rivendell models that fit
this role without frame modification.

I don't mean to be overly negative but this is seriously (expletive) stupid.

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 3:15 PM, nathaniel nichols  wrote:
> Found this on local CL, not mine, but I would think the dropout would make it 
> shift funny or just kinda annoying to change a flat..idk looks fun though
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/5375840206.html
>
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Re: [RBW] Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Christopher Murray]

Thanks but I'm going to keep the QB as a single for now. 

Cheers!
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Will,
Thanks for the history! I love these stories.

Happy New Year to all,
Shoji



On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:47:06 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/29/2015 11:52 PM, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Will,
>
> Expanding on my own post--is this a sign of senility? 
>
>
> No more so than a composer taking a delightful short melody and expanding 
> it into a full-fledged symphony.   This is a wonderful exposition, and I am 
> sure you are 100% correct.  It explains everything.
>
>
> I did want to point out that  the rear fender lines of early Rivendell 
> designs aren't accidental. They are consistent with most non-constructeur 
> builds of any era. There were a few Japanese bikes, a few now very 
> influential French bikes, and a few British bikes that bucked this trend, 
> but they were the exception, not ordinarily widely produced, and, 
> significantly, ordinarily featured vertical dropouts. 
>
> If you design around maximum "versatility", you build around horizontal 
> dropouts (fixed wheel/singlespeed/internal hub gear/derailleur gears all 
> work fine), and, if you maximize the tire clearance for a given 
> bridge-mounted brake, then you end up with an offset chainstay bridge given 
> the dropout configuration--bad fender line, but big tire clearance without 
> deflating the rear tire. This is the bargain the early Rivendell designs 
> made. You can do anything with them, they're lovingly built of the best 
> materials, fantastically finished, and they maximized the stock technology 
> of the mid-1990's.
>
> Digression: I bet there is a lag from the widespread switch to vertical 
> dropouts and capitializing on the improvement to fender alignment made 
> possible by vertical dropouts. It sounds like Grant's designs caught up 
> sometime after the early bikes (including my own Heron) and the early 
> Atlantis were designed.
>
> This switch to vertical dropouts resulted from a push from the MTB world 
> to shorten chainstays, one initiated byGrant Petersen's MB designs. It 
> was enthusiastically picked up by the 22mm-max-tire-crit-racing bike 
> designers that finally drove "road bikes" into a ditch that Grant worked 
> hard to avoid with his road-going designs, before leading/following his 
> demographic into lovely cruisers and non-suspension light mountain bikes. 
> "Gravel bikes" and most cyclocross bikes, honestly, are probably the 
> non-racer's commercially-available road-bike answer to the mass-market 
> road-racing bike, which started to fall into the specialization trap 
> starting sometime before I rode road bikes thirty-five years ago, and has 
> stayed there, immobilized by strictures of "lighter, stiffer, and more 
> aero", and the "purposeful" racing aesthetic of really tight tire 
> clearances. Modern racing bikes are a ball to drive, but they're not 
> practical machines for most of us. Moving on
>
> In fact, many builders though the mid 2000's, including Waterford, just 
> specified a standard cast bit for the chainstay bridge, which, depending on 
> the chainstay length and the chainstay configuration, would be located in 
> different places relative to the rear axle, but well away from the arc of 
> an inflated tire as it was removed from a (hypothetical) horizontal 
> dropout. Basically, that one, even if a threaded boss was added for a 
> fender, had a go/no go spec, and users of fenders could work out how to 
> make up the difference on their own time, and if the buyer isn't insisting 
> on more closely-specified design, or didn't know to ask, then why torture 
> your builder to locate that bridge in a given spot--about an "unimportant" 
> detail?  "It has clearance, clarence"
>
> With vertical dropouts and braze-on brakes, there really isn't any good 
> functional reason (there are production reasons, but they're minor if you 
> care) not to place the bridges equidistant from the wheel axis, and there 
> really isn't any good reason not to include a threaded boss perpendicular 
> to the fender--unless it isn't a design consideration or unless you 
> specifically don't want fenders on the bike. Even so, basic good design 
> puts the support structure in the right places.  For example, my own Road 
> Sport, built by Waterford under contract to Boulder Bicycles, includes 
> equidistant bridges and would fit fenders and its design tire fine, even 
> though the bike was intended *not* to accept fenders by its maker (no 
> eyelets, no bridge bosses. Mine ended up with one bridge boss, due to a 
> prototyping error...) due to the potential horror of toe clip overlap 
> potential on racing bikes.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Patrick Moore]

Well, I had a custom derailleur Rivendell modified to long horizontals
without derailleur hangar (and had the dt shifter bosses removed, too);
this is just the opposite case. My own excuse is, that I loved the way the
bike fit and handled, but preferred a dedicated fixed gear drivetrain,
and I didn't have the $ for a new custom Rivendell. I've been happy with
this mod for getting on for 10 years. Perhaps the owner loved his SO but
preferred derailleurs, and didn't want to spend for another Rivendell?

I suppose I take a more liberal view of bicycle modification than many, but
my guiding principle is, if you really have thought the modification
through, and there are good reasons why alternatives won't work as well for
you, all variables considered, do it. A bike is meant for riding, and
riding is meant to give the rider pleasure, so do what is most pleasant.

I agree that whimsical mods are silly. I'm just not sure this is one of
them.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

> Why would anyone do this?  There are other Rivendell models that fit
> this role without frame modification.
>
> I don't mean to be overly negative but this is seriously (expletive)
> stupid.
>
> On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 3:15 PM, nathaniel nichols 
> wrote:
> > Found this on local CL, not mine, but I would think the dropout would
> make it shift funny or just kinda annoying to change a flat..idk looks fun
> though
> > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/5375840206.html
> >
> > --
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>
>
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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Patrick Moore]

+1; Will's posts are among my favorites. Don't get senile *too *quickly,
please.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Shoji Takahashi 
wrote:

> Hi Will,
> Thanks for the history! I love these stories.
>
> Happy New Year to all,
> Shoji
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:47:06 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/29/2015 11:52 PM, William deRosset wrote:
>>
>> Dear Will,
>>
>> Expanding on my own post--is this a sign of senility?
>>
>>
>> No more so than a composer taking a delightful short melody and expanding
>> it into a full-fledged symphony.   This is a wonderful exposition, and I am
>> sure you are 100% correct.  It explains everything.
>>
>>
>> I did want to point out that  the rear fender lines of early Rivendell
>> designs aren't accidental. They are consistent with most non-constructeur
>> builds of any era. There were a few Japanese bikes, a few now very
>> influential French bikes, and a few British bikes that bucked this trend,
>> but they were the exception, not ordinarily widely produced, and,
>> significantly, ordinarily featured vertical dropouts.
>>
>> If you design around maximum "versatility", you build around horizontal
>> dropouts (fixed wheel/singlespeed/internal hub gear/derailleur gears all
>> work fine), and, if you maximize the tire clearance for a given
>> bridge-mounted brake, then you end up with an offset chainstay bridge given
>> the dropout configuration--bad fender line, but big tire clearance without
>> deflating the rear tire. This is the bargain the early Rivendell designs
>> made. You can do anything with them, they're lovingly built of the best
>> materials, fantastically finished, and they maximized the stock technology
>> of the mid-1990's.
>>
>> Digression: I bet there is a lag from the widespread switch to vertical
>> dropouts and capitializing on the improvement to fender alignment made
>> possible by vertical dropouts. It sounds like Grant's designs caught up
>> sometime after the early bikes (including my own Heron) and the early
>> Atlantis were designed.
>>
>> This switch to vertical dropouts resulted from a push from the MTB world
>> to shorten chainstays, one initiated byGrant Petersen's MB designs. It
>> was enthusiastically picked up by the 22mm-max-tire-crit-racing bike
>> designers that finally drove "road bikes" into a ditch that Grant worked
>> hard to avoid with his road-going designs, before leading/following his
>> demographic into lovely cruisers and non-suspension light mountain bikes.
>> "Gravel bikes" and most cyclocross bikes, honestly, are probably the
>> non-racer's commercially-available road-bike answer to the mass-market
>> road-racing bike, which started to fall into the specialization trap
>> starting sometime before I rode road bikes thirty-five years ago, and has
>> stayed there, immobilized by strictures of "lighter, stiffer, and more
>> aero", and the "purposeful" racing aesthetic of really tight tire
>> clearances. Modern racing bikes are a ball to drive, but they're not
>> practical machines for most of us. Moving on
>>
>> In fact, many builders though the mid 2000's, including Waterford, just
>> specified a standard cast bit for the chainstay bridge, which, depending on
>> the chainstay length and the chainstay configuration, would be located in
>> different places relative to the rear axle, but well away from the arc of
>> an inflated tire as it was removed from a (hypothetical) horizontal
>> dropout. Basically, that one, even if a threaded boss was added for a
>> fender, had a go/no go spec, and users of fenders could work out how to
>> make up the difference on their own time, and if the buyer isn't insisting
>> on more closely-specified design, or didn't know to ask, then why torture
>> your builder to locate that bridge in a given spot--about an "unimportant"
>> detail?  "It has clearance, clarence"
>>
>> With vertical dropouts and braze-on brakes, there really isn't any good
>> functional reason (there are production reasons, but they're minor if you
>> care) not to place the bridges equidistant from the wheel axis, and there
>> really isn't any good reason not to include a threaded boss perpendicular
>> to the fender--unless it isn't a design consideration or unless you
>> specifically don't want fenders on the bike. Even so, basic good design
>> puts the support structure in the right places.  For example, my own Road
>> Sport, built by Waterford under contract to Boulder Bicycles, includes
>> equidistant bridges and would fit fenders and its design tire fine, even
>> though the bike was intended *not* to accept fenders by its maker (no
>> eyelets, no bridge bosses. Mine ended up with one bridge boss, due to a
>> prototyping error...) due to the potential horror of toe clip overlap
>> potential on racing bikes.
>>
>>
>>
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