Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Joe Bernard]

"Lifetime model" is "bike that will outlast you." Which is definitely true of 
Rivendells, and not at all true of the stuff ridden in the Tour de France this 
year. 

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Daniel D.]

Did they have all sizes, 50 in particular, ready for demo, Justin?  Forgot to 
call today.  

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Justin, Oakland]

Saw them in person after an overnight. Very beautiful frames and very classic 
road bike looking. Jack Browns look absolutely tiny now after riding 42s and 
2.8s only for the past 5 or more years!

I fell into a frame more my price range that runs 650b so I'm not able to do 
the Roadini. Buyers will be very happy though!


-J

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[John Bokman]

Sorry. Was speaking to the differences between the Roadini and Roadeo. 
Still dreaming in my own mind!

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:50:34 PM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
>
> Looks like the tubing is different, but to what degree I can't say. The 
> statement that the butted ends are cut down to reduce excess heft doesn't 
> mean much to me since I'm ignorant about the process. I do know that I want 
> a light, svelt feeling road bike. However, my new Sam (2017) tube set is 
> considerably heavier than my old (2009 Sam) tube set, and yet it rides like 
> a dream. Those Silver tubes are heavier, yes, noticeably so (to the hand), 
> but the ride is excellent. So perhaps there's no real noticeable difference 
> in ride quality between the two frame sets?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:51:31 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> That seat cluster is awesome.  I really like the dropout detail shots in 
>> today's newsletter mailer.  
>>
>> Pay attention to the fact that you can't use your vintage 28.6mm front 
>> der.  You need a 31.8 to fit that tapered seat tube.
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 5:54:35 AM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
>>>
>>> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are 
>>> live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what 
>>> size and color did you go for?
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[John Bokman]

Looks like the tubing is different, but to what degree I can't say. The 
statement that the butted ends are cut down to reduce excess heft doesn't 
mean much to me since I'm ignorant about the process. I do know that I want 
a light, svelt feeling road bike. However, my new Sam (2017) tube set is 
considerably heavier than my old (2009 Sam) tube set, and yet it rides like 
a dream. Those Silver tubes are heavier, yes, noticeably so (to the hand), 
but the ride is excellent. So perhaps there's no real noticeable difference 
in ride quality between the two frame sets?



On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:51:31 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> That seat cluster is awesome.  I really like the dropout detail shots in 
> today's newsletter mailer.  
>
> Pay attention to the fact that you can't use your vintage 28.6mm front 
> der.  You need a 31.8 to fit that tapered seat tube.
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 5:54:35 AM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
>>
>> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are 
>> live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what 
>> size and color did you go for?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Finally, I have Riv

[Patrick Moore]

We don't disagree; it's just that you said, "It felt so stable on the 42s
and the level of vibration goes down tremendously.* Because you don't feel
the road vibrations as much you think you are going slowly, but you are
really going much faster than you might think."*. All I was saying is that
this feeling of less vibration, or more smoothness, doesn't always, in
general, to everyone, equate to a feeling of going slower. Sometimes it
equates to a feeling of going faster. I was mentally referring to Jan's
untested, or not generally tested, hypothesis in the old BQ, which I've
heard others accept without, it seems to me, any more proof than his.

Also, it's not so much 650B as such that you are considering since there's
no magic with that size; theoretically you could have skinny, hard,
vibrating 650B wheels. What I take it you mean is that, generally, a
fatter, softer, more supple tire goes faster in reality, or can go faster,
while not having the sensorial indications of speed that you felt with your
Paselas.

(BTW, I'm surprised the Paselas* felt* fast, or at least faster. I've
ridden Paselas for thousands of miles -- 559 X 32, 622 X 37/8s, 27 inchers)
and they have always felt rather slow to me, tho' the 559s weren't bad;
they just didn't feel "fast" the way the Pro Race 4s and even more the Elk
Passes did.)

I used to own a Citroen Acadiane, with 602 cc flat twin air cooled engine
that had to work real hard to go 65 mph (I got it up to 75 once with a tail
wind). The 50-55 mph cruising speed didn't necessarily feel fast, but it
sure felt noisy! You knew when you were cruising. OTOH, I once rented a
modern Camry with 8 speed or whatever auto transmission. It got up to "60"
on the dial so fast that at first I wondered if the speedometer was
calibrated in kilometers.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:

> I don't know Patrick.  What you seem to be saying is that you don't equate
> vibrations with speed, and that's great, but I am not sure you understand
> what I am trying to convey:
>
> If you ride your bike for hundreds of miles with a setup, you get used to
> the hum of the road the vibrations that come off the ground--the general
> feel of the bike. Once you convert the bike to 650b, the bike is humming
> very silently compared to what you are used to.  The level of hum and
> vibration you are now getting is equivalent to what you used to get at a
> much lower speed, but you are going much faster (you think you are going
> slower based upon the ride experience, but in reality you are going
> quickly).  My perceptions on the bike need to recalibrate.
>
> Another example is I regularly drove a 4 cylinder 4 speed car and one day
> I drove a V-8 6-speed sports car.  When I go 70 mph in my 4-cylinder, the
> car is humming loudly and my manual steering is feeling vibrations off the
> road.  I drove the sports car at 70 miles an hour, but there was no
> vibration, no hum of the engine and I thought I was going 35 miles an
> hour--literally--when in fact I was going 70 mph.  I think that going from
> 32 mm 700c Paselas to 42 mm Grand Bois Hetre tires was a similar wow
> experience for me--mainly because it was coming from the same ride I was
> intimately familiar with except for the change in brakes and wheels/tires.
> I can understand that if you drive a V-8 sports car all the time, then you
> won't equate vibration with speed--you don't need recalibration, but if you
> are used to the 4-cylinder manual, then get in a sports car, then some
> recalibration may be necessary.
>
> Toshi
>
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Re: [RBW] N minus 2 plus 1

[Philip Williamson]

I'm 230, was 255, and wouldn't worry at all about breaking a Roadeo. I tend not 
to bash over stuff, though. I'm with everyone else: keep the Jones and 
Bombadil, add a road-oriented bike. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Finally, I have Riv

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I don't know Patrick.  What you seem to be saying is that you don't equate
vibrations with speed, and that's great, but I am not sure you understand
what I am trying to convey:

If you ride your bike for hundreds of miles with a setup, you get used to
the hum of the road the vibrations that come off the ground--the general
feel of the bike. Once you convert the bike to 650b, the bike is humming
very silently compared to what you are used to.  The level of hum and
vibration you are now getting is equivalent to what you used to get at a
much lower speed, but you are going much faster (you think you are going
slower based upon the ride experience, but in reality you are going
quickly).  My perceptions on the bike need to recalibrate.

Another example is I regularly drove a 4 cylinder 4 speed car and one day I
drove a V-8 6-speed sports car.  When I go 70 mph in my 4-cylinder, the car
is humming loudly and my manual steering is feeling vibrations off the
road.  I drove the sports car at 70 miles an hour, but there was no
vibration, no hum of the engine and I thought I was going 35 miles an
hour--literally--when in fact I was going 70 mph.  I think that going from
32 mm 700c Paselas to 42 mm Grand Bois Hetre tires was a similar wow
experience for me--mainly because it was coming from the same ride I was
intimately familiar with except for the change in brakes and wheels/tires.
I can understand that if you drive a V-8 sports car all the time, then you
won't equate vibration with speed--you don't need recalibration, but if you
are used to the 4-cylinder manual, then get in a sports car, then some
recalibration may be necessary.

Toshi

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Bruce]

This is too funny.  How many Rivendell models are no longer being made?  No 
such thing as a "lifetime model."  Atlantis comes closest, but it's day will 
come I thnk.

  From: Joe Bernard 
 Sometimes I chuckle at Grant's "lifetime bicycle" copy on the website: Why 
would I keep a bike for a whole lifetime?? ;-)



   

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Joe Bernard]

Oh no, they're long gone, John. Each sale of a bike has its specific story, but 
the reality is I go through a lot of bikes (I don't recommend this expensive 
habit). I like bicycles as mechanical and artistic objects, and there's a 
little voice in my head that often whispers "you only get so many bikes in your 
life." So I tend to enjoy them for a while, then move on to another visual and 
tactile experience. Sometimes I chuckle at Grant's "lifetime bicycle" copy on 
the website: Why would I keep a bike for a whole lifetime?? ;-)

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Joe Bernard]

Glad to hear it, Brad! It's a nice bike and I miss it occasionally, but there's 
always more Rivs in the sea. She got a nice Appaloosa and I'm getting a nice 
CLEM L (with low stepover for my creaky old bones), so everybody wins!

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Toshi Takeuchi]

As a youngster, I rode my bike in the courtyard of my apartment building
complex over and over in circles.  I had the bright idea that I did that
circle so many times that I could ride it with my eyes closed. I tried it
and ended up with six stitches in my forehead after gashing it on top of a
metal fence.  I experienced the wisdom of Bill's words the hard way.

Toshi


On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

>
>
> What subtle differences do you think there are?  I think of the 650B
> Hilsen and the Saluki being identical.  Certainly they are functionally
> identical.  In my humble opinion, if there was a 54cm 650B Hilsen and a
> 54cm Saluki, built up the same and you test rode them both blindfolded, you
> would crash because riding a bicycle while blindfolded is really dangerous.
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:32:31 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> Thanks, I found these 2.  I was hoping for one with more RBW write up,
>> like they did for the Blerliot.
>>
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Justin, Oakland 
>> To: RBW Owners Bunch 
>> Sent: Wed, Aug 2, 2017 7:23 pm
>> Subject: [RBW] Saluki Links
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html#saluki
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/pdf/rbw_saluki_flyer.pdf
>>
>> -J
>>
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Re: [RBW] Finally, I have Riv

[Patrick Moore]

My point is that vibration has nothing to do with the sensation of speed,
for me and for many others. Those tires feel fast to me, be they fat or
thin, which appear to let me maintain a given cadence in given conditions
in a given gear; greater plushness adds to the feeling of speed.

I go back and forth between plush 29 mm tires and plush 51 mm tires all the
time (the EPs and the F Freds.)

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:

> I'm talking about the eye-opening experience of taking a good 700c x 32 mm
> setup and converting that same ride/frame into a 650b x 42 mm setup.  It's
> taking a very familiar ride and giving it a totally new experience.  If
> you've ridden wide supple tires like this before, then perhaps you wouldn't
> blink.
>
> Toshi
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Many riders I know, myself among them, don't associate vibration with
>> speed; in fact, I assocate vibration with slowness and plushness with speed
>> -- Elk Passes at 55 versus Pro Race 4s at 90. I think this idea originated
>> in a guess by Jan Heine back when he was first promoting the speed benefits
>> of wider, but very supple, tires.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>>
>>> [...] Because you don't feel the road vibrations as much you think you
>>> are going slowly, [...]
>>>
>> --
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>
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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Brad]

>
> I priced it at a number I could live with, and someone offered to pay it 
> without haggling.


My wife bought Joe's Appaloosa and she LOVES it.

Brad 
Queens

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Re: [RBW] Finally, I have Riv

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I'm talking about the eye-opening experience of taking a good 700c x 32 mm
setup and converting that same ride/frame into a 650b x 42 mm setup.  It's
taking a very familiar ride and giving it a totally new experience.  If
you've ridden wide supple tires like this before, then perhaps you wouldn't
blink.

Toshi

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Many riders I know, myself among them, don't associate vibration with
> speed; in fact, I assocate vibration with slowness and plushness with speed
> -- Elk Passes at 55 versus Pro Race 4s at 90. I think this idea originated
> in a guess by Jan Heine back when he was first promoting the speed benefits
> of wider, but very supple, tires.
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>
>> [...] Because you don't feel the road vibrations as much you think you
>> are going slowly, [...]
>>
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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, the 'still mostly new condition with nice parts' resale value played an 
huge part in my Appa selling. I priced it at a number I could live with, and 
someone offered to pay it without haggling. Otherwise it would still be in my 
apartment.   

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[RBW] Re: Saluki Links

[Fullylugged]

Saluki was made In Osaka by Toyo. Hilsens are made in WI by Waterford. GP has 
said build quality is equal at both places back when some frames were coming 
from both places, but the tubing used is different in each location. Saluki 
used high quality Japanese tubing. I don't know what tubing W'Ford has these 
days, since True Temper no longer supplies bike tubes. I'm sure it's good, but 
that might lead to some variation in the feel of the bike. IIRC, the TT and DT 
on Saluki (and Rambouillet) were heat treated while the rest of the tubes were 
not. Don't know about current Hilsen.  Not sure I could tell even there is a 
difference! Tires might affect the feel more.

Let us know how your bike odyssey goes.

Bruce

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Re: [RBW] Finally, I have Riv

[Patrick Moore]

Many riders I know, myself among them, don't associate vibration with
speed; in fact, I assocate vibration with slowness and plushness with speed
-- Elk Passes at 55 versus Pro Race 4s at 90. I think this idea originated
in a guess by Jan Heine back when he was first promoting the speed benefits
of wider, but very supple, tires.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:

> [...] Because you don't feel the road vibrations as much you think you are
> going slowly, [...]
>

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Re: [RBW] Finally, I have Riv

[Toshi Takeuchi]

The frame I had is a 54 cm (C-T) frame.  It felt so stable on the 42s and
the level of vibration goes down tremendously.  Because you don't feel the
road vibrations as much you think you are going slowly, but you are really
going much faster than you might think.

Toshi


On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Bill in Roswell GA 
wrote:

> Wow Toshi, that came out looking great. Bet it rides like a dream on those
> 42s.
>
> What size frame is yours?
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA
>
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 6:39:37 PM UTC-4, ttoshi wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bill, I used a Tektro R559 for the conversion.  I have some pictures
>> showing my blue ram with Synergy rims and Grand Bois Hetre tires (42 mm
>> 650b).
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/42771204@N00/sets/721576319268
>> 15235/with/8154499211/
>>
>> Best,
>> Toshi
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Bill in Roswell GA 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Toshi, did you use Tektro 556 brakes on your Ram 650B conversion? That
>>> you could run 42mm tires is enlightening!
>>>
>>> Look forward to seeing pics of your new ride!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bill in Roswell GA
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 7:57:53 PM UTC-4, ttoshi wrote:

 Hi Bill,

 Congrats on your Ram.  It's a great bike!  You can convert to 650b and
 that almost eliminates the TCO, but not entirely.  I could run 42 mm with
 fenders on the 650b Ram. With that said, though, I did end up selling my
 Ram to a group member and getting a custom which should be finished
 painting any day now...

 Enjoy your rides!
 Toshi in Oakland, CA


 On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Bill in Roswell GA <
 roadsc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bobs and Rivs,
>
> A big thanks to Bill Hammond for the "long term loan" of his metallic
> pearl orange Rambouillet, size 54. I've been watching on here for years
> waiting on an orange Ram in my size. Wonder of wonders, Bill put his up 
> for
> sale just down the road a couple of hours away. Bill still rides his Riv
> custom regularly!
>
> Bill bought the Ram from the original owner, Bill Davis perhaps?
> Anyways, it was appropriate to keep this Riv Ram in the Bill lineage 
> (other
> Bills will approve, I'm sure).
>
> Most of configuration is close to original with a few mods over the
> years: 8 speed with Suntour bar ends, Tektro/Cane Creek brake levers,
> Suntour Mountech crazy long front der., Brooks B-17, bar is Nitto 176
> (think Noodle was orig), Tektro 556 long reach brakes, 105 long rear der,
> Technomic stem. Ruffy Tuffy tires on Araya TX350/Deore Paralax hubs. 
> Pedals
> are clones of Deore clipless (maybe MKS). Shiny Deore 5 bolt triple
> crankset.
>
> First change was for fit. Needed the bars lower to be saddle height as
> the Technomic was way too tall when bottomed out. Had a Pearl on hand for 
> a
> quick swap. Also added a Nitto M-13 rack for an Acorn Compact Rando bag
> which puts the top of the bag equal with the bars. May eventually add
> Shimano bar ends because the shape fits my hand a bit better, but that is 
> a
> minor thing for a rainy winter day.
>
> The only drivetrain change was to see how lighter wheels would feel.
> Swapped out the Araya/Deore for Open Pro/Ultegra running 33mm tires.
> Lighter wheels really livened up the frame and made it feel snappy. I'll
> get a wheelset with wider rims to accomodate 37mm-as-measured tires (Will
> at Riv said that was the max for sure).
>
> Due to toe clip overlap, I won't be mounting fenders except for tours
> where rain can be expected. I was hoping not to have TCO, but all of my
> road bikes have it due to smallish 54 frames. Only my MTB with slack head
> tube doesn't have TCO. One of these days I'll get a custom frame without
> TCO!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA
>
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[RBW] Re: Saluki Links

[John Hawrylak]

Thanks to all who provided the Saluki links and shared their experiences.  
It was just what I was looking for.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 6:28:16 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:

> Does any one have any links to the RBW literature on the early 
> Saluki's???  looking at the 54cm on Seattle CL, since it is my size.
>
> I know the Saluki's transformed into the 650B AHHs, but there seems to be 
> subtle differences.
>
> I thought there were links on Cyclofiend's site, but have not located them
>
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[John Hawrylak]

DB

Thanks for the link to the RBW write up.  Just what I was looking for.  I 
vaguely remember it, 12 - 13 years ago??

The PH / SH chart was invaluable.  it confirms a 54cm is my size and I 
could fit a 56cm, although the 57cm TT may be a challenge.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, DB wrote:

> Here's an old page from the Rivendell site.
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20050609023738/http://rivbike.com/html/bikes_saluki.html
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 6:54:39 AM UTC-7, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> All other things being equal, cantilever brakes have better fender 
>> clearance than Tektro R559s.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 8:52 AM, iamkeith  wrote:
>>
>>> Bill made me spit coffee out my nose. Thanks alot.
>>>
>>> The Saluki in question appears to be from early in the run, before 
>>> tektro made the rivendell-requested 559 sidepull brake,  so it has 
>>> cantilever brakes.  That, and possibly some different lugs, is a difference.
>>>
>>> Normally i like cantis but, in this case, I'm not sure you gain any tire 
>>> or fender clearance over the later frames and/or hilsens, and would suspect 
>>> that bridges or chainstay width or crown height are the determiners.  
>>> Perhaps someone else knows.
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Orc]

I do.  Either a port in the DT in the vicinity of the HT or a port in the 
steertube (with 3-4 loose wire wraps around the steertube before heading 
off down the DT.)   When I drill the DT, I always braze a grommet into the 
hole to reinforce it, though that does mess up the paint in the area.

-david parsons

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 9:54:04 AM UTC-7, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
> Have any of you drilled holes to run your wire Internally? I'm having it 
> installed on my Sam. Thanks

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[John Hawrylak]

Joe

Thanks for the insight.  Do you still have them, or did something else 
replace them??

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:31:54 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

> In what in hindsight now seems a rather rare occurrence, I've owned both a 
> 54cm Saluki and Hilsen, and they both used the same parts. It's the same 
> bike. 

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

Thanks for the 2 links.  I found the 1st, but not the 2nd.   I was hoping 
for a RBW write up focusing on the Saluki, but it seems there is none.  The 
2 links are like A vs B and B vs C, B + Saluki.   I remember the write ups 
on the AHH (country bike, Honus Wagner) and the Blerliot (known name, nice 
link to aviation), but can not recall a Saluki hype.   It seems like RBW 
was going through a major re-thinking of their direction at the time of the 
Saluki

Subtle Differences, really just wanted to know if any exists. I totally 
agree with your BLINDFOLD reasoning. 

John Hawrylak
Woodstown Nj

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 8:36:20 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Cyclofiend's Bleriot page includes a Rivendell comparison between the 
> Bleriot and the Saluki
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html
>
> Cyclofiend's Hilsen page includes a Rivendell comparison between the 
> Hilsen and the Saluki
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen/index.html
>
> What subtle differences do you think there are?  I think of the 650B 
> Hilsen and the Saluki being identical.  Certainly they are functionally 
> identical.  In my humble opinion, if there was a 54cm 650B Hilsen and a 
> 54cm Saluki, built up the same and you test rode them both blindfolded, you 
> would crash because riding a bicycle while blindfolded is really dangerous. 
>  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:32:31 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Justin
>>  
>> Thanks, I found these 2.  I was hoping for one with more RBW write up, 
>> like they did for the Blerliot.
>>  
>>  
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Justin, Oakland 
>> To: RBW Owners Bunch 
>> Sent: Wed, Aug 2, 2017 7:23 pm
>> Subject: [RBW] Saluki Links
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html#saluki
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/pdf/rbw_saluki_flyer.pdf
>>
>> -J
>>
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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Ash [who works to bike]]

I have one up for sale.   It is a solid, beautiful, fun bike.  Can be 
configured in many, many ways.  My reason for selling is not getting enough 
chances to ride it.  Looking forward to owning one again (or whatever 
version Riv might have by then) after couple of years when situation 
changes (detailed version of the story is in my 'for sale' thread)



On Wednesday, 2 August 2017 16:45:22 UTC-7, Singlespeed Johnny wrote:
>
> i accidentally hijacked a for sale thread asking this and am sorry for 
> that. 
> buuut, i've noticed a lot of appaloosa's up for sale (including the one 
> that i sold) and am wondering what's going on. sure, there's a lot of other 
> rivs for sale here to, but given that the joe is such a new model it seems 
> like the time produced (<2yrs) to number up for sale seems high.
> i personally didn't care for the long wheelbase and the bike overall felt 
> really sluggish to me. the mega long wheelbase coupled with a 2.1" max tire 
> just didn't fit my style of riding. when i stood up to pedal and put power 
> down, the bike didn't wanna go any more forward than me sitting and 
> spinning which i am not used to. overall, i'm glad i got to experience 
> owning a riv and wouldn't rule another one out in the future but would def 
> stick to an atlantis or hunq.
> why did you guys sell or are currently trying to sell yours?

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Bill Lindsay]

That seat cluster is awesome.  I really like the dropout detail shots in 
today's newsletter mailer.  

Pay attention to the fact that you can't use your vintage 28.6mm front der. 
 You need a 31.8 to fit that tapered seat tube.

BL in EC

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 5:54:35 AM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
>
> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are live 
> for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what size 
> and color did you go for?
>

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks for playing along Stuart.  For the record, I think the LHT is a very 
good bike.  

I wonder what the resale value of these Rosco Bubbe mini-runs will be?  I 
have one and will soon have two of them.  My blue Rosco Road liftatube 
frame was $925.  In 10 years, will it be worth $400?  $700?  Or will it go 
up in value like an Ibis Scorcher or an X0-1?  Lob only knows.  You know 
somebody will write up an ebay description about how it's a collectible 
limited edition one-of-ten-ever-made item.  

BL in EC

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:05:39 PM UTC-7, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>
> I duly concede to Bill that my comparisons may have been over-generalized. 
>
> FWIW, I've ridden an unloaded LHT (rented for a week in Portland) and 
> thought it was plenty fun, and granted it was two years ago but I would say 
> it was very similar to riding my Joe now. 
>
> Back to the topic, and I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but Rivs 
> have pretty good resale value, especially a newer one with presumably less 
> miles. So when a new shiny thing comes up, the best bang for your buck can 
> sometimes feel like the easiest way to go, even if it means selling a 
> pretty bike like a Joe. 
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:49:13 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Stuart says the Appaloosa is a nicer, upright Surly Long Haul Trucker. 
>>  To prove his point he attached photos of two 26" wheel Surly Long Haul 
>> Truckers, one with rim brakes and one with disc brakes, both with drop 
>> bars.  
>>
>> I concede the point with a proviso:  If your bike-category-buckets are so 
>> large that two bikes with different wheel sizes, different handlebar types 
>> and significantly different frame geometry can be categorized as 
>> equivalent, then the Appaloosa is not unique.  If the buckets have a little 
>> more specificity, only then can one argue the Appaloosa is a unique design. 
>>
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 10:55:24 AM UTC-7, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>>>
>>> A lot, maybe not most, of people buy Rivs sight unseen. And because most 
>>> people have only ever ridden bikes with shorter wheelbases, it's not 
>>> necessarily clear exactly how a longer one will affect handling, especially 
>>> because everyone's bodies and abilities are different. I would say it all 
>>> ultimately depends on exactly how and where you ride the bike, so I 
>>> wouldn't write someone off for trying something new. 
>>>
>>> As for the Joe being the first and only bike of its kind, I'd say the 
>>> Joe is a nicer, upright version of the LHT so I wouldn't really make that 
>>> claim at all. I've attached some photos of the LHT I'm thinking of here. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Stuart Lovinggood]

I duly concede to Bill that my comparisons may have been over-generalized. 

FWIW, I've ridden an unloaded LHT (rented for a week in Portland) and 
thought it was plenty fun, and granted it was two years ago but I would say 
it was very similar to riding my Joe now. 

Back to the topic, and I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but Rivs 
have pretty good resale value, especially a newer one with presumably less 
miles. So when a new shiny thing comes up, the best bang for your buck can 
sometimes feel like the easiest way to go, even if it means selling a 
pretty bike like a Joe. 

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:49:13 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Stuart says the Appaloosa is a nicer, upright Surly Long Haul Trucker.  To 
> prove his point he attached photos of two 26" wheel Surly Long Haul 
> Truckers, one with rim brakes and one with disc brakes, both with drop 
> bars.  
>
> I concede the point with a proviso:  If your bike-category-buckets are so 
> large that two bikes with different wheel sizes, different handlebar types 
> and significantly different frame geometry can be categorized as 
> equivalent, then the Appaloosa is not unique.  If the buckets have a little 
> more specificity, only then can one argue the Appaloosa is a unique design. 
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 10:55:24 AM UTC-7, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>>
>> A lot, maybe not most, of people buy Rivs sight unseen. And because most 
>> people have only ever ridden bikes with shorter wheelbases, it's not 
>> necessarily clear exactly how a longer one will affect handling, especially 
>> because everyone's bodies and abilities are different. I would say it all 
>> ultimately depends on exactly how and where you ride the bike, so I 
>> wouldn't write someone off for trying something new. 
>>
>> As for the Joe being the first and only bike of its kind, I'd say the Joe 
>> is a nicer, upright version of the LHT so I wouldn't really make that claim 
>> at all. I've attached some photos of the LHT I'm thinking of here. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar or Appaloosa?

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

Thanks! It's a custom frame bag that my mom made for me. She's the coolest. 
:)

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> About the photo: that's an elegantly loaded bike, perfect balance front to 
> rear!
>
> Is that a custom frame bag, or is the perfect fit just serendipity?
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Tim O. (Portland, OR) <
> timothyc...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> Michelle! What an exciting dilemma you're in! 
>>
>> That's me Kurt is talking about! I didn't even occur to me that I might 
>> have something to add to this post until Kurt added his two cents. I bought 
>> his Proto-appaloosa this spring and I've been loving it. I haven't ever 
>> ridden a Hunqapillar, but if anyone in Portland has a 62cm I'd love to take 
>> it for a spin! The bike I own is basically Appaloosa geometry with a 
>> Hunqapillar fork and diagatube. So far, I've mostly been commuting on it 
>> with a few mini-tours on mixed road/gravel here in Oregon. Its VERY 
>> comfortable. I was able to ride some rough gravel roads and you can just 
>> fly on descents. It feels like you're floating through all the bumps. You 
>> will notice that it takes a little extra leaning for tight corners. I have 
>> dreams of riding more singletrack, but I know the vast majority of my 
>> riding will be on the road or fire roads. Overall, I'd definitely recommend 
>> the Appaloosa if you're looking for an all-arounder (tour, gravel, commute, 
>> etc.). Here's a picture of the ride Kurt was referring to that I did with 
>> my son: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXLg4k-BB32/?taken-by=hunqaloosa So 
>> fun! 
>>
>> The long chain stays tend to draw attention of others, so you'll likely 
>> get some comments and need to explain things for people. But the bike will 
>> stand out for lots of other reasons too. :) 
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim O.
>> Portland, OR
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:09:02 PM UTC-7, Kurt Manley wrote:
>>>
>>> I own a Hunq and had an Appaloosa based Proto-Riv and for me the Hunq 
>>> was the right bike. But I loved the Appa a lot. 
>>> I wanted to be able to ride rougher single track with tight turns and 
>>> was willing to give up the extra smoothness and stability on the longer 
>>> bike for more agility so I went with the shorter Hunq. 
>>> I sold my Proto to a fellow lister and he puts his kid on the back and 
>>> loads the front with his camping gear and rides around Oregon like that. I 
>>> think it's the perfect bike for what he's doing. The longer bike was by far 
>>> the most stable, comfortable bike I have ever ridden but that did make it a 
>>> bit harder to maneuver through rough stuff off road. I still did it but a 
>>> shorter bike is easier. 
>>> If it were me I'd figure out what type of riding I'd be doing most and 
>>> base my decision on that. If you're doing rides that are mostly pavement or 
>>> fire roads the Appaloosa is probably they way to go. If you're routinely 
>>> hitting rougher singletrack the the Hunq might be your bike. The Appa will 
>>> ride smoother. 
>>>
>>> The Hunq is no mountain bike though, it's fairly capable but I might buy 
>>> the Appa and spend the money I saved on a Karate Monkey or similar for 
>>> trail shredding
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 10:56:36 AM UTC-7, Michele wrote:

 Trying to decide between the Hunqapillar and the Appaloosa, and I'd 
 love some insights from current owners. Obviously, the Hunq is more 
 expensive and has a longer wait time, but functionally, where does each 
 frame shine? What would make you choose one over the other?

>>> -- 
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>
>
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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Eric Karnes]

+1 on Stuart's comment. One of the challenging things about a Rivendell is 
that many of us must purchase them sight unseen. While this may be 
perfectly acceptable for aesthetics (or else we wouldn't buy them in the 
first place) or fit (I trust that the folks at Riv know their bikes), the 
ride quality is hard to judge without an actual spin on the bike. And 
speaking from personal experience, some Rivs ride amazing (to me) while 
some seem sluggish (again, to me). The SimpleOne is the best bike I have 
ever thrown a leg over. But I don't feel that way about some of the stouter 
models I've ridden. Now, I've never ridden an Appoloosa, but I imagine some 
people love the long chain stays (and the ride quality this produces), 
while some people don't...and for many of us, it's hard to know until you 
buy one. Either way it's a beautiful bike and I hope to one day ride one.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 1:55:24 PM UTC-4, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>
> A lot, maybe not most, of people buy Rivs sight unseen. And because most 
> people have only ever ridden bikes with shorter wheelbases, it's not 
> necessarily clear exactly how a longer one will affect handling, especially 
> because everyone's bodies and abilities are different. I would say it all 
> ultimately depends on exactly how and where you ride the bike, so I 
> wouldn't write someone off for trying something new. 
>
> As for the Joe being the first and only bike of its kind, I'd say the Joe 
> is a nicer, upright version of the LHT so I wouldn't really make that claim 
> at all. I've attached some photos of the LHT I'm thinking of here. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Patrick Moore]

IME, Shoe Goo gets cement-hard and yellow/brown opaque after much exposure
to strong sunlight. It does remain strong, though.

Patrick Moore, in hot, very sunny, and dry NM.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 12:40 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> How does the shoe goo hold up in direct sunlight on 100F degree, max
> humidity days? Dose sit soften at all?
> I live in hot and humid Maryland and wonder how it would fare in the hot
> months.
> I am guessing it is made to withstand all kinds of weather/punishment
> because it is made for shoes?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Patrick Moore]

There were discussions about this on the boblist, and -- don't take me to
court! -- I thought the consensus, after comments and advice by some very
experienced frame builders, was that, if you do it right, and in the right
place, it's harmless. I seem to recall Mark Bulgier giving his conditional
approval, and you can't get much more experienced with frames than he. You
might search the boblist archives.

That said, there are other ways: Shoe Goo is one, though I preferred zip
ties, ugly as they are, because I didn't want to have to attempt the
removal of years-old Shoe Goo from my frame, in the event that I had to
replace or move a wire.

I've just glanced around the web and seen various clamps that one might
use, or modify to use, as dyno wire clamps, and that look a heckofalot
better than zip ties, which are very ugly -- as I know, since I've used a
lot of them. Fortunately, my 2 main dynamo bikes have brazed on means of
routing wires. I did use electrician's tape on the folder.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> No. You should not drill holes in your frame. You can have a frame builder
> braze in reinforced openings to fish the wire through but that will also
> ruin the paint. On my AHH I used a thin bead of Shoe Goop adhesive. I
> embedded the wire in the goop and in about an hour it is dry and won't come
> off. I have been riding mine for 3 years now that way with no issues. The
> nice thing about the shoe goop is you can just peel it off if need be and
> it does not hurt the paint.
>
> My bike looks, for the most part, looks like it has no wires. I also used
> it inside the fenders to adhere the wires as well. Much better than zip
> ties IMHO.
>
> This site:
>
> http://www.velolumino.com/
>
> Sells ultra thin, high strength wire specifically for dyno lights etc. He
> also sells quick disconnect kits and grommets for passing wires through
> fenders.
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 12:54:04 PM UTC-4, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
>> Have any of you drilled holes to run your wire Internally? I'm having it
>> installed on my Sam. Thanks
>
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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Jay Connolly]

I tend to agree with Bill. I used to own a Trucker. Good bike, but it felt dead 
without a load, and the wheelbase was 460, I believe, not the Appaloosa's 535 
(if I'm remembering right). Huge Difference. I ride my Appaloosa with drops 
about an inch above the saddle. Hard to get the Trucker front end up that high 
without looking truly awful. 

Jay

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Bill Lindsay]

Stuart says the Appaloosa is a nicer, upright Surly Long Haul Trucker.  To 
prove his point he attached photos of two 26" wheel Surly Long Haul 
Truckers, one with rim brakes and one with disc brakes, both with drop 
bars.  

I concede the point with a proviso:  If your bike-category-buckets are so 
large that two bikes with different wheel sizes, different handlebar types 
and significantly different frame geometry can be categorized as 
equivalent, then the Appaloosa is not unique.  If the buckets have a little 
more specificity, only then can one argue the Appaloosa is a unique design. 
   

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 10:55:24 AM UTC-7, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>
> A lot, maybe not most, of people buy Rivs sight unseen. And because most 
> people have only ever ridden bikes with shorter wheelbases, it's not 
> necessarily clear exactly how a longer one will affect handling, especially 
> because everyone's bodies and abilities are different. I would say it all 
> ultimately depends on exactly how and where you ride the bike, so I 
> wouldn't write someone off for trying something new. 
>
> As for the Joe being the first and only bike of its kind, I'd say the Joe 
> is a nicer, upright version of the LHT so I wouldn't really make that claim 
> at all. I've attached some photos of the LHT I'm thinking of here. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Kieran J]

Shoe Gooers: Any thoughts on using the Goo to hold heavier wires, like the 
Schmidt Coax type one?

I've been using aluminum HVAC tape lately for the run of wire under the 
rear fender on my own bike with no issues, but I'm getting ready to attach 
a full run of (external) wiring to my wife's updated commuter. 

Incidently, when I had her frame and fork repainted (old 80's Trek 620) I 
asked for internal wiring holes to be drilled in the NDS fork leg, upper 
downtube and in the BB shell. The painter 1.) forgot to do the frame holes 
and 2.) made the fork holes slightly too small to fish a fat wire through, 
so that I broke a section of wire off inside the fork leg ... FML !

On the other hand, fishing wiring through my Bantam's frame was very easy 
and I do really like the cleanliness of it. Those holes are purpose-done 
and reinforced - and the correct size.

KJ


On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 3:21:06 PM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> Lum, I live outside Philadelphia and we have similar weather. I rode the 
> bike, with shoe goo attached wires in a 85 mile,8200' ride in 90+ degrees 
> with extremely high humidity. I was sweating so much, I destroyed my Brooks 
> Imperial saddle and was pretty dehydrated by the end. The shoe goo had no 
> issues what so ever holding the wires on the frame
>
> Conversely,I have ridden the bike in snowy/slushsy/ salt cover roads with 
> no issues. I have ridden it when the temp was12 degrees Fahrenheit and it 
> held with no issues. I have clogged the rear fender with mud, that froze 
> into the fenders and stopped the wheels from rolling. I used a big stick to 
> chip out the frozen mud and the shoe goo held fine.
>
> I started with wire ties but found that they loosened on the front fork 
> over time. 
>
> As tTm suggested, I ran the wires where they could not easily be seen, 
> held them in place with blue painters tape, applied the shoe goo 
> where needed, let it dry and removed the painters tape. That is all I have 
> done in about 4 years of riding.
>
> With regard to the fenders, I am using Velo Orange fenders and their 
> rolled edge is too small to run a wire through (like you can with most 
> Honjo fenders). So that the wire was  compeletly encapsulated I did the 
> following:
>
> 1. Removed wheels
> 2. Mounted bike upside down in the stand
> 3. Cleaned the fenders won the inside with denatured alcohol
> 4. Ran wires and held in place with painters tape
> 5. Embedded the wire in a bead of goo and let dry.
> 6. Removed painters tape and covered those spots over with more goo.
> 7 Wire is adhered to the fender over its entire length and protected from 
> the elements
>
> It helps to use the very thin wire I linked to above.
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:40:38 PM UTC-4, lum gim fong wrote:
>
>> How does the shoe goo hold up in direct sunlight on 100F degree, max 
>> humidity days? Dose sit soften at all?
>> I live in hot and humid Maryland and wonder how it would fare in the hot 
>> months.
>> I am guessing it is made to withstand all kinds of weather/punishment 
>> because it is made for shoes?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Steven Sweedler]

I also bought a Hunquapillar and still on the fence about keeping it. I
find my AR a little more comfortable but sure do enjoy the larger tires on
our bony descents here in the White Mtns Steve

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 3:22 PM Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> +1. I bought a Hunq and it was way more bike than I ever needed for the
> riding I do. I sold it. Thankfully I had and still have, my AHHH. It does
> everything I need.
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:23:46 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>
>> Bob asked: "What are the reasons anyone sells a bike that they recently
>> bought, within a year say?  Did they get swept up in dreaming of a type of
>> riding they don't really do?  Was it too much to reasonably afford?  Was it
>> bought without  enough research or the research misled?  Did another new,
>> best and greatest bike catch the eye?"
>>
>> I'm guilty of this. For me, it's usually a matter of fit: I've sold a
>> Pacer and a Smoothie because they were just too small for me. But I've also
>> bought bikes because I've been enchanted by the riding potential they
>> offer, only to realize I never do that sort of riding.  I bought a Hunq and
>> then moved to an area with a dearth a ton of dirt roads. The Hunq was also
>> a bit small. I sold it, bought an Atlantis, and have been happy ever since
>> (though sometimes I wonder if I should've bought a Hilsen instead).
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:03:09 PM UTC-4, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 and absolutely agreed with Bill's comments...
>>>
>>> I rode my Joe on a group ride last night and it was perfect.  Fast
>>> enough, completely comfortable, able to handle roads and trails, and (with
>>> good lights) enabled an absolutely beautiful and fun ride home in the dark
>>> on a perfect summer night.  No bike could have been better, at least for
>>> what I want and do.
>>>
>>> It dawned on me the other day the Appaloosa has officially passed some
>>> sort of test.  I experiment a lot with bikes (mostly older) and sometimes
>>> bikes do not last long in the mix, though I always learn things.  That
>>> said, the Joe is staying for any foreseeable future, and not only that, it
>>> is going to be ridden in all the ways bikes should be ridden, dirt, dings,
>>> beausage, all of it.  I know that is the way it should be and is for most
>>> but new shiny bikes are too easy to try and protect.  The Appaloosa is
>>> wanting to become the one bike and I am going to give it that chance.
>>>
>>> I will say I am thinking of trying to configure it so I can fairly
>>> easily change between bullmoose and drop bars (using bar top shifters and
>>> cable disconnects) as well as changing to a more all-around gearing.  But
>>> those changes are more a sign of commitment than disappointment.
>>>
>>> A more general and maybe more useful question, suitable for a different
>>> and distinct thread... What are the reasons anyone sells a bike that they
>>> recently bought, within a year say?  Did they get swept up in dreaming of a
>>> type of riding they don't really do?  Was it too much to reasonably
>>> afford?  Was it bought without  enough research or the research misled?
>>> Did another new, best and greatest bike catch the eye?  So many reasons...
>>> It might be interesting to know why it happens, maybe even providing
>>> something of a test checklist for people to look through before buying.
>>>
>>> Bob Lovejoy
>>> Galesburg, IL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 11:23:54 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 I reject the assertion that 'so many' are being sold.  That said, I
 sold one.

 The reason I sold my 55 Appaloosa is a longish story and I'm too
 long-winded as it is.  The short reason is that the Appaloosa wasn't
 expensive enough.  It is awesome and perfect, but not expensive enough.

 The question I'm more interested in is the following:  If a long
 wheelbase and fat tires don't match your style of riding, why did you even
 buy an Appaloosa?  The Appaloosa is unlike any bike in the world at any
 point in time, ever.  There is no competition and there is no comparison.
 Anybody who bought it expecting it to be like another bike made a mistake.
 Certainly if somebody thought "it's great for all off-road riding like the
 best mountain bikes, it's light and fast like the best road bikes, it'll
 take a touring load like the best touring bikes, and it's as stable and
 comfortable as the best cruiser bikes", then those people maybe had
 unreasonable expectations, and are right to sell it.  The Appaloosa is a
 new breed, in my opinion, and it is a brilliant one.  People who don't want
 a new breed shouldn't have bought it, and if they just didn't think of that
 ahead of time, they are perfectly right to sell it to somebody who does
 want the new breed.  Easy peasy.

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 --
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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Brian Campbell]

+1. I bought a Hunq and it was way more bike than I ever needed for the 
riding I do. I sold it. Thankfully I had and still have, my AHHH. It does 
everything I need.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:23:46 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>
> Bob asked: "What are the reasons anyone sells a bike that they recently 
> bought, within a year say?  Did they get swept up in dreaming of a type of 
> riding they don't really do?  Was it too much to reasonably afford?  Was it 
> bought without  enough research or the research misled?  Did another new, 
> best and greatest bike catch the eye?"
>
> I'm guilty of this. For me, it's usually a matter of fit: I've sold a 
> Pacer and a Smoothie because they were just too small for me. But I've also 
> bought bikes because I've been enchanted by the riding potential they 
> offer, only to realize I never do that sort of riding.  I bought a Hunq and 
> then moved to an area with a dearth a ton of dirt roads. The Hunq was also 
> a bit small. I sold it, bought an Atlantis, and have been happy ever since 
> (though sometimes I wonder if I should've bought a Hilsen instead).
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:03:09 PM UTC-4, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>>
>> +1 and absolutely agreed with Bill's comments...
>>
>> I rode my Joe on a group ride last night and it was perfect.  Fast 
>> enough, completely comfortable, able to handle roads and trails, and (with 
>> good lights) enabled an absolutely beautiful and fun ride home in the dark 
>> on a perfect summer night.  No bike could have been better, at least for 
>> what I want and do.
>>
>> It dawned on me the other day the Appaloosa has officially passed some 
>> sort of test.  I experiment a lot with bikes (mostly older) and sometimes 
>> bikes do not last long in the mix, though I always learn things.  That 
>> said, the Joe is staying for any foreseeable future, and not only that, it 
>> is going to be ridden in all the ways bikes should be ridden, dirt, dings, 
>> beausage, all of it.  I know that is the way it should be and is for most 
>> but new shiny bikes are too easy to try and protect.  The Appaloosa is 
>> wanting to become the one bike and I am going to give it that chance.
>>
>> I will say I am thinking of trying to configure it so I can fairly easily 
>> change between bullmoose and drop bars (using bar top shifters and cable 
>> disconnects) as well as changing to a more all-around gearing.  But those 
>> changes are more a sign of commitment than disappointment. 
>>
>> A more general and maybe more useful question, suitable for a different 
>> and distinct thread... What are the reasons anyone sells a bike that they 
>> recently bought, within a year say?  Did they get swept up in dreaming of a 
>> type of riding they don't really do?  Was it too much to reasonably afford? 
>>  Was it bought without  enough research or the research misled?  Did 
>> another new, best and greatest bike catch the eye?  So many reasons...  It 
>> might be interesting to know why it happens, maybe even providing something 
>> of a test checklist for people to look through before buying.
>>
>> Bob Lovejoy
>> Galesburg, IL
>>  
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 11:23:54 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> I reject the assertion that 'so many' are being sold.  That said, I sold 
>>> one.  
>>>
>>> The reason I sold my 55 Appaloosa is a longish story and I'm too 
>>> long-winded as it is.  The short reason is that the Appaloosa wasn't 
>>> expensive enough.  It is awesome and perfect, but not expensive enough.  
>>>
>>> The question I'm more interested in is the following:  If a long 
>>> wheelbase and fat tires don't match your style of riding, why did you even 
>>> buy an Appaloosa?  The Appaloosa is unlike any bike in the world at any 
>>> point in time, ever.  There is no competition and there is no comparison.  
>>> Anybody who bought it expecting it to be like another bike made a mistake.  
>>> Certainly if somebody thought "it's great for all off-road riding like the 
>>> best mountain bikes, it's light and fast like the best road bikes, it'll 
>>> take a touring load like the best touring bikes, and it's as stable and 
>>> comfortable as the best cruiser bikes", then those people maybe had 
>>> unreasonable expectations, and are right to sell it.  The Appaloosa is a 
>>> new breed, in my opinion, and it is a brilliant one.  People who don't want 
>>> a new breed shouldn't have bought it, and if they just didn't think of that 
>>> ahead of time, they are perfectly right to sell it to somebody who does 
>>> want the new breed.  Easy peasy.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Brian Campbell]

Lum, I live outside Philadelphia and we have similar weather. I rode the 
bike, with shoe goo attached wires in a 85 mile,8200' ride in 90+ degrees 
with extremely high humidity. I was sweating so much, I destroyed my Brooks 
Imperial saddle and was pretty dehydrated by the end. The shoe goo had no 
issues what so ever holding the wires on the frame

Conversely,I have ridden the bike in snowy/slushsy/ salt cover roads with 
no issues. I have ridden it when the temp was12 degrees Fahrenheit and it 
held with no issues. I have clogged the rear fender with mud, that froze 
into the fenders and stopped the wheels from rolling. I used a big stick to 
chip out the frozen mud and the shoe goo held fine.

I started with wire ties but found that they loosened on the front fork 
over time. 

As tTm suggested, I ran the wires where they could not easily be seen, held 
them in place with blue painters tape, applied the shoe goo where needed, 
let it dry and removed the painters tape. That is all I have done in about 
4 years of riding.

With regard to the fenders, I am using Velo Orange fenders and their rolled 
edge is too small to run a wire through (like you can with most Honjo 
fenders). So that the wire was  compeletly encapsulated I did the following:

1. Removed wheels
2. Mounted bike upside down in the stand
3. Cleaned the fenders won the inside with denatured alcohol
4. Ran wires and held in place with painters tape
5. Embedded the wire in a bead of goo and let dry.
6. Removed painters tape and covered those spots over with more goo.
7 Wire is adhered to the fender over its entire length and protected from 
the elements

It helps to use the very thin wire I linked to above.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:40:38 PM UTC-4, lum gim fong wrote:

> How does the shoe goo hold up in direct sunlight on 100F degree, max 
> humidity days? Dose sit soften at all?
> I live in hot and humid Maryland and wonder how it would fare in the hot 
> months.
> I am guessing it is made to withstand all kinds of weather/punishment 
> because it is made for shoes?
>

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[RBW] Re: Finally, I have Riv

[lum gim fong]

I also converted mine to 650b.

See it here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/K1b855

I originally had my Rambouillet set up as 700 x 28c. BB height of 26.5cm. 
Still not enough fender clearance for my comfort level.

After converting to 650b x 42mm, the BB height is now 26cm. Same as my 650b 
Bleriot, and I have 170 crankarms on both bikes!! So it is as pedal strike 
free as the Bleriot, Way more fender clearance now.

I used Tektro R559 brakes with  Kool Stop Thinline pads on the brakes as it 
needed another mm of reach to reach far enough. YMMV with stock shimano 
type R559 shoes.

If I had to do it again I might try those Dia-compe centerpulls Riv sells. 
I think they definitely reach easily.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Tim Gavin]

The Shoe Goo has held up great for me for about 3 years.  Check back in
another 5.
It's not in direct sunlight often, because it's on the back/inside of the
fork leg and bottom of the down tube.
It has survived living in my garage and riding during 100 degree / 95%
humidity days.
Shoe Goo seems like it's rubber cement with added rubber (or similar
flexible plastics).

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:40 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> How does the shoe goo hold up in direct sunlight on 100F degree, max
> humidity days? Dose sit soften at all?
> I live in hot and humid Maryland and wonder how it would fare in the hot
> months.
> I am guessing it is made to withstand all kinds of weather/punishment
> because it is made for shoes?
>
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[RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[lum gim fong]

How does the shoe goo hold up in direct sunlight on 100F degree, max 
humidity days? Dose sit soften at all?
I live in hot and humid Maryland and wonder how it would fare in the hot 
months.
I am guessing it is made to withstand all kinds of weather/punishment 
because it is made for shoes?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Tim Gavin]

I agree with Brian on not drilling, and on Shoe Goo.

I've glued dynamo wires up the fork leg and down the down tube with Shoe
Goo, and it works great.  I recommend holding the wire in place with
string, twine, or zip ties until the Goo dries.

Excess Goo can be pilled with your fingertips, and doesn't seem to leave
any residue on the paint.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> No. You should not drill holes in your frame. You can have a frame builder
> braze in reinforced openings to fish the wire through but that will also
> ruin the paint. On my AHH I used a thin bead of Shoe Goop adhesive. I
> embedded the wire in the goop and in about an hour it is dry and won't come
> off. I have been riding mine for 3 years now that way with no issues. The
> nice thing about the shoe goop is you can just peel it off if need be and
> it does not hurt the paint.
>
> My bike looks, for the most part, looks like it has no wires. I also used
> it inside the fenders to adhere the wires as well. Much better than zip
> ties IMHO.
>
> This site:
>
> http://www.velolumino.com/
>
> Sells ultra thin, high strength wire specifically for dyno lights etc. He
> also sells quick disconnect kits and grommets for passing wires through
> fenders.
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 12:54:04 PM UTC-4, Carla Waugh wrote:
>
>> Have any of you drilled holes to run your wire Internally? I'm having it
>> installed on my Sam. Thanks
>
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[RBW] Re: Dyno hub wiring

[Brian Campbell]

No. You should not drill holes in your frame. You can have a frame builder 
braze in reinforced openings to fish the wire through but that will also 
ruin the paint. On my AHH I used a thin bead of Shoe Goop adhesive. I 
embedded the wire in the goop and in about an hour it is dry and won't come 
off. I have been riding mine for 3 years now that way with no issues. The 
nice thing about the shoe goop is you can just peel it off if need be and 
it does not hurt the paint.

My bike looks, for the most part, looks like it has no wires. I also used 
it inside the fenders to adhere the wires as well. Much better than zip 
ties IMHO.

This site:

http://www.velolumino.com/

Sells ultra thin, high strength wire specifically for dyno lights etc. He 
also sells quick disconnect kits and grommets for passing wires through 
fenders.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 12:54:04 PM UTC-4, Carla Waugh wrote:

> Have any of you drilled holes to run your wire Internally? I'm having it 
> installed on my Sam. Thanks

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[John G.]

Bob asked: "What are the reasons anyone sells a bike that they recently 
bought, within a year say?  Did they get swept up in dreaming of a type of 
riding they don't really do?  Was it too much to reasonably afford?  Was it 
bought without  enough research or the research misled?  Did another new, 
best and greatest bike catch the eye?"

I'm guilty of this. For me, it's usually a matter of fit: I've sold a Pacer 
and a Smoothie because they were just too small for me. But I've also 
bought bikes because I've been enchanted by the riding potential they 
offer, only to realize I never do that sort of riding.  I bought a Hunq and 
then moved to an area with a dearth a ton of dirt roads. The Hunq was also 
a bit small. I sold it, bought an Atlantis, and have been happy ever since 
(though sometimes I wonder if I should've bought a Hilsen instead).

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:03:09 PM UTC-4, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> +1 and absolutely agreed with Bill's comments...
>
> I rode my Joe on a group ride last night and it was perfect.  Fast enough, 
> completely comfortable, able to handle roads and trails, and (with good 
> lights) enabled an absolutely beautiful and fun ride home in the dark on a 
> perfect summer night.  No bike could have been better, at least for what I 
> want and do.
>
> It dawned on me the other day the Appaloosa has officially passed some 
> sort of test.  I experiment a lot with bikes (mostly older) and sometimes 
> bikes do not last long in the mix, though I always learn things.  That 
> said, the Joe is staying for any foreseeable future, and not only that, it 
> is going to be ridden in all the ways bikes should be ridden, dirt, dings, 
> beausage, all of it.  I know that is the way it should be and is for most 
> but new shiny bikes are too easy to try and protect.  The Appaloosa is 
> wanting to become the one bike and I am going to give it that chance.
>
> I will say I am thinking of trying to configure it so I can fairly easily 
> change between bullmoose and drop bars (using bar top shifters and cable 
> disconnects) as well as changing to a more all-around gearing.  But those 
> changes are more a sign of commitment than disappointment. 
>
> A more general and maybe more useful question, suitable for a different 
> and distinct thread... What are the reasons anyone sells a bike that they 
> recently bought, within a year say?  Did they get swept up in dreaming of a 
> type of riding they don't really do?  Was it too much to reasonably afford? 
>  Was it bought without  enough research or the research misled?  Did 
> another new, best and greatest bike catch the eye?  So many reasons...  It 
> might be interesting to know why it happens, maybe even providing something 
> of a test checklist for people to look through before buying.
>
> Bob Lovejoy
> Galesburg, IL
>  
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 11:23:54 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I reject the assertion that 'so many' are being sold.  That said, I sold 
>> one.  
>>
>> The reason I sold my 55 Appaloosa is a longish story and I'm too 
>> long-winded as it is.  The short reason is that the Appaloosa wasn't 
>> expensive enough.  It is awesome and perfect, but not expensive enough.  
>>
>> The question I'm more interested in is the following:  If a long 
>> wheelbase and fat tires don't match your style of riding, why did you even 
>> buy an Appaloosa?  The Appaloosa is unlike any bike in the world at any 
>> point in time, ever.  There is no competition and there is no comparison.  
>> Anybody who bought it expecting it to be like another bike made a mistake.  
>> Certainly if somebody thought "it's great for all off-road riding like the 
>> best mountain bikes, it's light and fast like the best road bikes, it'll 
>> take a touring load like the best touring bikes, and it's as stable and 
>> comfortable as the best cruiser bikes", then those people maybe had 
>> unreasonable expectations, and are right to sell it.  The Appaloosa is a 
>> new breed, in my opinion, and it is a brilliant one.  People who don't want 
>> a new breed shouldn't have bought it, and if they just didn't think of that 
>> ahead of time, they are perfectly right to sell it to somebody who does 
>> want the new breed.  Easy peasy.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Les Lammers]

I thought the LHT was sort of an Atlantis copy?

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 1:55:24 PM UTC-4, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:

> A lot, maybe not most, of people buy Rivs sight unseen. And because most 
> people have only ever ridden bikes with shorter wheelbases, it's not 
> necessarily clear exactly how a longer one will affect handling, especially 
> because everyone's bodies and abilities are different. I would say it all 
> ultimately depends on exactly how and where you ride the bike, so I 
> wouldn't write someone off for trying something new. 
>
> As for the Joe being the first and only bike of its kind, I'd say the Joe 
> is a nicer, upright version of the LHT so I wouldn't really make that claim 
> at all. I've attached some photos of the LHT I'm thinking of here. 
>

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[RBW] why so many joe's up for sale?

[Joe Bernard]

I've told my story too many times to get into it again. My selling had nothing 
to do with the bike itself, stuff just happens in life sometimes. I'm getting a 
CLEM L shortly. 

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Garth]

Please, let's not make this into a "what's unique and what's not" kinda 
thing since every bike is unique and one of a kind.  It's just we're so 
used to devaluing what IS,  as if "over there is the One special 
bike/thing", but not right here . That's like looking to the skies for a 
nice pie to eat, and denying the one right in front you.  The grass is 
greenest right where ya are, else how would know what green grass even is ?

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Bob Lovejoy]

+1 and absolutely agreed with Bill's comments...

I rode my Joe on a group ride last night and it was perfect.  Fast enough, 
completely comfortable, able to handle roads and trails, and (with good 
lights) enabled an absolutely beautiful and fun ride home in the dark on a 
perfect summer night.  No bike could have been better, at least for what I 
want and do.

It dawned on me the other day the Appaloosa has officially passed some sort 
of test.  I experiment a lot with bikes (mostly older) and sometimes bikes 
do not last long in the mix, though I always learn things.  That said, the 
Joe is staying for any foreseeable future, and not only that, it is going 
to be ridden in all the ways bikes should be ridden, dirt, dings, beausage, 
all of it.  I know that is the way it should be and is for most but new 
shiny bikes are too easy to try and protect.  The Appaloosa is wanting to 
become the one bike and I am going to give it that chance.

I will say I am thinking of trying to configure it so I can fairly easily 
change between bullmoose and drop bars (using bar top shifters and cable 
disconnects) as well as changing to a more all-around gearing.  But those 
changes are more a sign of commitment than disappointment. 

A more general and maybe more useful question, suitable for a different and 
distinct thread... What are the reasons anyone sells a bike that they 
recently bought, within a year say?  Did they get swept up in dreaming of a 
type of riding they don't really do?  Was it too much to reasonably afford? 
 Was it bought without  enough research or the research misled?  Did 
another new, best and greatest bike catch the eye?  So many reasons...  It 
might be interesting to know why it happens, maybe even providing something 
of a test checklist for people to look through before buying.

Bob Lovejoy
Galesburg, IL
 

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 11:23:54 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I reject the assertion that 'so many' are being sold.  That said, I sold 
> one.  
>
> The reason I sold my 55 Appaloosa is a longish story and I'm too 
> long-winded as it is.  The short reason is that the Appaloosa wasn't 
> expensive enough.  It is awesome and perfect, but not expensive enough.  
>
> The question I'm more interested in is the following:  If a long wheelbase 
> and fat tires don't match your style of riding, why did you even buy an 
> Appaloosa?  The Appaloosa is unlike any bike in the world at any point in 
> time, ever.  There is no competition and there is no comparison.  Anybody 
> who bought it expecting it to be like another bike made a mistake.  
> Certainly if somebody thought "it's great for all off-road riding like the 
> best mountain bikes, it's light and fast like the best road bikes, it'll 
> take a touring load like the best touring bikes, and it's as stable and 
> comfortable as the best cruiser bikes", then those people maybe had 
> unreasonable expectations, and are right to sell it.  The Appaloosa is a 
> new breed, in my opinion, and it is a brilliant one.  People who don't want 
> a new breed shouldn't have bought it, and if they just didn't think of that 
> ahead of time, they are perfectly right to sell it to somebody who does 
> want the new breed.  Easy peasy.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Stuart Lovinggood]

A lot, maybe not most, of people buy Rivs sight unseen. And because most people 
have only ever ridden bikes with shorter wheelbases, it's not necessarily clear 
exactly how a longer one will affect handling, especially because everyone's 
bodies and abilities are different. I would say it all ultimately depends on 
exactly how and where you ride the bike, so I wouldn't write someone off for 
trying something new. 

As for the Joe being the first and only bike of its kind, I'd say the Joe is a 
nicer, upright version of the LHT so I wouldn't really make that claim at all. 
I've attached some photos of the LHT I'm thinking of here. 

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Daniel D.]

I was choosing between the two.  Decided to go riv for a few reasons Nicest 
bike shop I've ever visited, wanted to support that with a purchase. I'm in 
middle of the recommended size range, usually I'm choosing between a smaller 
size or a bigger size. If nothing else I'll have a bike that's pretty dang 
comfortable.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 10:11:25 AM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
> I went for a 61cm blue, BTW. Lots of functional overlap with my Black 
> Mountain Cycles Road, but I'll probably keep them in different locations. And 
> I'm sure they'll ride plenty different. Bikes r cool.
> 
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 1:02:55 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:50 blue!  
> But I may go down to riv to see the colors in person. I was planning to buy 
> only the frame and silver cranks from riv.  But I'll wait until I see what 
> they offer for completes/kits before I start buying parts.

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Well I tend to agree.  But I have a light blue San Marcos and am getting 
the new mountain mixte in blue.  Just too much of the light blue family.  
I'm thinking of metallic black or dark chocolate for the Roadini

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 1:09:47 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:
>
> Nice, I'm too much of a skin flint to get a new bike repainted. I would 
> love a black cherry/maroon or a blue it's almost black bike. 
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:20:28 AM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote: 
> > John I was on the earlier email notification for the Roadini and ordered 
> a 50 in blue.  I'm getting it repainted by D so I kind of didn't care 
> which one I ordered.  However, according to the newsletter the gray was 
> more popular so I picked the blue one. 
> > 
> > 
> > Anyone want to share their build plans on the Roadini? 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[John G.]

I went for a 61cm blue, BTW. Lots of functional overlap with my Black 
Mountain Cycles Road, but I'll probably keep them in different locations. 
And I'm sure they'll ride plenty different. Bikes r cool.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 1:02:55 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:
>
> 50 blue!  But I may go down to riv to see the colors in person. I was 
> planning to buy only the frame and silver cranks from riv.  But I'll wait 
> until I see what they offer for completes/kits before I start buying parts.

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Daniel D.]

Nice, I'm too much of a skin flint to get a new bike repainted. I would love a 
black cherry/maroon or a blue it's almost black bike.

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:20:28 AM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
> John I was on the earlier email notification for the Roadini and ordered a 50 
> in blue.  I'm getting it repainted by D so I kind of didn't care which one 
> I ordered.  However, according to the newsletter the gray was more popular so 
> I picked the blue one.
> 
> 
> Anyone want to share their build plans on the Roadini?

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[RBW] Roadini!

[Daniel D.]

50 blue!  But I may go down to riv to see the colors in person. I was planning 
to buy only the frame and silver cranks from riv.  But I'll wait until I see 
what they offer for completes/kits before I start buying parts.

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[RBW] Dyno hub wiring

[Carla Waugh]

Have any of you drilled holes to run your wire Internally? I'm having it 
installed on my Sam. Thanks

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar or Appaloosa?

[Patrick Moore]

About the photo: that's an elegantly loaded bike, perfect balance front to
rear!

Is that a custom frame bag, or is the perfect fit just serendipity?

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Tim O. (Portland, OR) <
timothycharles...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Michelle! What an exciting dilemma you're in!
>
> That's me Kurt is talking about! I didn't even occur to me that I might
> have something to add to this post until Kurt added his two cents. I bought
> his Proto-appaloosa this spring and I've been loving it. I haven't ever
> ridden a Hunqapillar, but if anyone in Portland has a 62cm I'd love to take
> it for a spin! The bike I own is basically Appaloosa geometry with a
> Hunqapillar fork and diagatube. So far, I've mostly been commuting on it
> with a few mini-tours on mixed road/gravel here in Oregon. Its VERY
> comfortable. I was able to ride some rough gravel roads and you can just
> fly on descents. It feels like you're floating through all the bumps. You
> will notice that it takes a little extra leaning for tight corners. I have
> dreams of riding more singletrack, but I know the vast majority of my
> riding will be on the road or fire roads. Overall, I'd definitely recommend
> the Appaloosa if you're looking for an all-arounder (tour, gravel, commute,
> etc.). Here's a picture of the ride Kurt was referring to that I did with
> my son: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXLg4k-BB32/?taken-by=hunqaloosa So
> fun!
>
> The long chain stays tend to draw attention of others, so you'll likely
> get some comments and need to explain things for people. But the bike will
> stand out for lots of other reasons too. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Tim O.
> Portland, OR
>
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:09:02 PM UTC-7, Kurt Manley wrote:
>>
>> I own a Hunq and had an Appaloosa based Proto-Riv and for me the Hunq was
>> the right bike. But I loved the Appa a lot.
>> I wanted to be able to ride rougher single track with tight turns and was
>> willing to give up the extra smoothness and stability on the longer bike
>> for more agility so I went with the shorter Hunq.
>> I sold my Proto to a fellow lister and he puts his kid on the back and
>> loads the front with his camping gear and rides around Oregon like that. I
>> think it's the perfect bike for what he's doing. The longer bike was by far
>> the most stable, comfortable bike I have ever ridden but that did make it a
>> bit harder to maneuver through rough stuff off road. I still did it but a
>> shorter bike is easier.
>> If it were me I'd figure out what type of riding I'd be doing most and
>> base my decision on that. If you're doing rides that are mostly pavement or
>> fire roads the Appaloosa is probably they way to go. If you're routinely
>> hitting rougher singletrack the the Hunq might be your bike. The Appa will
>> ride smoother.
>>
>> The Hunq is no mountain bike though, it's fairly capable but I might buy
>> the Appa and spend the money I saved on a Karate Monkey or similar for
>> trail shredding
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 10:56:36 AM UTC-7, Michele wrote:
>>>
>>> Trying to decide between the Hunqapillar and the Appaloosa, and I'd love
>>> some insights from current owners. Obviously, the Hunq is more expensive
>>> and has a longer wait time, but functionally, where does each frame shine?
>>> What would make you choose one over the other?
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[DaveS]

I'm in for a blue 61. Dave was very helpful sizing off my Bombadil specs 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Patrick Moore]

Segueing off this, a request: will those who ride both the Roadeo and the
Roadini tell us how they are different and how the are the same?

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 10:18 AM, John Bokman  wrote:

> That Blue looks nice!
>
> Trying to decide if the Roadeo is worth the extra bones. I really love the
> aesthetics of the Roadeo (close to parallel top tube rather than
> upsloping), but based on the literature I've seen, hard to justify the
> extra cash based on ride quality.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:20:28 AM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 8:54:35 AM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>>
>>> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are
>>> live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what
>>> size and color did you go for?
>>>
>>
>>
>> John I was on the earlier email notification for the Roadini and ordered
>> a 50 in blue.  I'm getting it repainted by D so I kind of didn't care
>> which one I ordered.  However, according to the newsletter the gray was
>> more popular so I picked the blue one.
>>
>> Anyone want to share their build plans on the Roadini?
>>
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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Bill Lindsay]

No, they have not published the geometry.  If you are curious, you really 
should call them.  They are bound to be excited about it.  It's clearly got 
a longer chainstay than a 'traditional road bike'.  The seat tube angle is 
certainly 71.5 or 72.  The head tube angle is probably 72 or 73.  About 
45mm of fork rake.  I'm sure they would talk to you about it if you 
called.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 6:16:34 AM UTC-7, Christopher Cote wrote:
>
> Have they published the geometry? I see the sizing chart, but I'm curious 
> about the rest of the geometry. Not in the market for one, so I won't waste 
> their time with a call or email. 
>
> Chris
>

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Bill Lindsay]

I reject the assertion that 'so many' are being sold.  That said, I sold 
one.  

The reason I sold my 55 Appaloosa is a longish story and I'm too 
long-winded as it is.  The short reason is that the Appaloosa wasn't 
expensive enough.  It is awesome and perfect, but not expensive enough.  

The question I'm more interested in is the following:  If a long wheelbase 
and fat tires don't match your style of riding, why did you even buy an 
Appaloosa?  The Appaloosa is unlike any bike in the world at any point in 
time, ever.  There is no competition and there is no comparison.  Anybody 
who bought it expecting it to be like another bike made a mistake.  
Certainly if somebody thought "it's great for all off-road riding like the 
best mountain bikes, it's light and fast like the best road bikes, it'll 
take a touring load like the best touring bikes, and it's as stable and 
comfortable as the best cruiser bikes", then those people maybe had 
unreasonable expectations, and are right to sell it.  The Appaloosa is a 
new breed, in my opinion, and it is a brilliant one.  People who don't want 
a new breed shouldn't have bought it, and if they just didn't think of that 
ahead of time, they are perfectly right to sell it to somebody who does 
want the new breed.  Easy peasy.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA



On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:45:22 PM UTC-7, Singlespeed Johnny wrote:
>
> i accidentally hijacked a for sale thread asking this and am sorry for 
> that. 
> buuut, i've noticed a lot of appaloosa's up for sale (including the one 
> that i sold) and am wondering what's going on. sure, there's a lot of other 
> rivs for sale here to, but given that the joe is such a new model it seems 
> like the time produced (<2yrs) to number up for sale seems high.
> i personally didn't care for the long wheelbase and the bike overall felt 
> really sluggish to me. the mega long wheelbase coupled with a 2.1" max tire 
> just didn't fit my style of riding. when i stood up to pedal and put power 
> down, the bike didn't wanna go any more forward than me sitting and 
> spinning which i am not used to. overall, i'm glad i got to experience 
> owning a riv and wouldn't rule another one out in the future but would def 
> stick to an atlantis or hunq.
> why did you guys sell or are currently trying to sell yours?

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[John Bokman]

That Blue looks nice!

Trying to decide if the Roadeo is worth the extra bones. I really love the 
aesthetics of the Roadeo (close to parallel top tube rather than 
upsloping), but based on the literature I've seen, hard to justify the 
extra cash based on ride quality.



On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:20:28 AM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 8:54:35 AM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>
>> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are 
>> live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what 
>> size and color did you go for?
>>
>
>
> John I was on the earlier email notification for the Roadini and ordered a 
> 50 in blue.  I'm getting it repainted by D so I kind of didn't care which 
> one I ordered.  However, according to the newsletter the gray was more 
> popular so I picked the blue one.
>
> Anyone want to share their build plans on the Roadini?
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Nitto 32R rear rack

[Kieran J]

Thanks for the tips.

I ended up ordering a Racktime Foldit Adjustable rack from Germany last 
night. CAD$60 shipped, we'll see how she does!

KJ


On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 6:27:16 PM UTC-4, jjss wrote:
>
> I was going to bid on that but then one popped up for slightly cheaper.  I 
> communicated with the guy and I happen to know that he has it set up to 
> auto-accept an offer of $135!  Hope that helps.
>
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 12:40:36 PM UTC-7, Dave Small wrote:
>>
>> There's one on eBay now that looks medium to me:
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nitto-Campee-Rear-Bike-Rack-/202004571051?
>>
>> This is the second auction he's posted for it; the first closed with a 
>> $135 opener and no bids, so he relisted it at $175.  Go figure.  
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[drew]

I think we live in a time where many other companies are now making 
gravel/tour/adventurey bikes. Competetion in that niche is high, as is the rate 
of shiny new things being shown to people. 
I hear you on the sluggish feel. I sometimes feel that on my hunqapillar. Then 
I load it up, or take it off road, or ride without people to compare myself to, 
and it feels perfect. I think it was made for those scenarios. 

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Conway Bennett]

I should've jumped on a hi-ho silver.  Anyone not want their 55?  

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Les Lammers]

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 8:36:20 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Cyclofiend's Bleriot page includes a Rivendell comparison between the 
> Bleriot and the Saluki
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html
>
> Cyclofiend's Hilsen page includes a Rivendell comparison between the 
> Hilsen and the Saluki
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen/index.html
>
> What subtle differences do you think there are?  I think of the 650B 
> Hilsen and the Saluki being identical.  Certainly they are functionally 
> identical.  *In my humble opinion, if there was a 54cm 650B Hilsen and a 
> 54cm Saluki, built up the same and you test rode them both blindfolded, you 
> would crash because riding a bicycle while blindfolded is really dangerous. 
>  *
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
 
Wild Bill, that made my day. :-) The Bleriot was purported to be the poor 
guys Saluki. So all three may be very similar riding.

>
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:32:31 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Justin
>>  
>> Thanks, I found these 2.  I was hoping for one with more RBW write up, 
>> like they did for the Blerliot.
>>  
>>  
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Justin, Oakland 
>> To: RBW Owners Bunch 
>> Sent: Wed, Aug 2, 2017 7:23 pm
>> Subject: [RBW] Saluki Links
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html#saluki
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/pdf/rbw_saluki_flyer.pdf
>>
>> -J
>>
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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[DB]

Here's an old page from the Rivendell site.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050609023738/http://rivbike.com/html/bikes_saluki.html

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 6:54:39 AM UTC-7, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> All other things being equal, cantilever brakes have better fender 
> clearance than Tektro R559s.
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 8:52 AM, iamkeith  > wrote:
>
>> Bill made me spit coffee out my nose. Thanks alot.
>>
>> The Saluki in question appears to be from early in the run, before tektro 
>> made the rivendell-requested 559 sidepull brake,  so it has cantilever 
>> brakes.  That, and possibly some different lugs, is a difference.
>>
>> Normally i like cantis but, in this case, I'm not sure you gain any tire 
>> or fender clearance over the later frames and/or hilsens, and would suspect 
>> that bridges or chainstay width or crown height are the determiners.  
>> Perhaps someone else knows.
>>
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>

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[RBW] Re: why so many joe's up for sale?

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I'm afraid that I can't help you on this one.  I have a 2017 and own quite 
a few bikes and the Joe would be among the very last to be sold.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 7:45:22 PM UTC-4, Singlespeed Johnny wrote:
>
> i accidentally hijacked a for sale thread asking this and am sorry for 
> that. 
> buuut, i've noticed a lot of appaloosa's up for sale (including the one 
> that i sold) and am wondering what's going on. sure, there's a lot of other 
> rivs for sale here to, but given that the joe is such a new model it seems 
> like the time produced (<2yrs) to number up for sale seems high.
> i personally didn't care for the long wheelbase and the bike overall felt 
> really sluggish to me. the mega long wheelbase coupled with a 2.1" max tire 
> just didn't fit my style of riding. when i stood up to pedal and put power 
> down, the bike didn't wanna go any more forward than me sitting and 
> spinning which i am not used to. overall, i'm glad i got to experience 
> owning a riv and wouldn't rule another one out in the future but would def 
> stick to an atlantis or hunq.
> why did you guys sell or are currently trying to sell yours?

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Chris Birkenmaier]

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 8:54:35 AM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>
> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are live 
> for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what size 
> and color did you go for?
>


John I was on the earlier email notification for the Roadini and ordered a 
50 in blue.  I'm getting it repainted by D so I kind of didn't care which 
one I ordered.  However, according to the newsletter the gray was more 
popular so I picked the blue one.

Anyone want to share their build plans on the Roadini?

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[RBW] Re: Let's Talk Fenders...

[Kiley DeMond]

Thanks for the input. I think maybe there are B50s out there... I don't 
care for the black 'flap' on the P-series. Not sure why the P50s felt like 
they wouldn't fit. I do have the 50mm tires on the bike. 

On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 2:38:59 PM UTC-7, J Imler wrote:
>
> Per Riv website - The P50 is perfect for the Sam Hillborne, the Cheviot, 
> and the A Homer Hilsen.
>
> Based on my experience with the B65, I think that they (B65) would be 
> overkill on the Chev. I think the P 50 is right and once customized to fit 
> (modest cutting for brake clearance about the forks) you could run 50 mm 
> tires which I think is close to max width on the Chev. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[iamkeith]

You must have adequate standover clearance then.

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Tim Gavin]

All other things being equal, cantilever brakes have better fender
clearance than Tektro R559s.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 8:52 AM, iamkeith  wrote:

> Bill made me spit coffee out my nose. Thanks alot.
>
> The Saluki in question appears to be from early in the run, before tektro
> made the rivendell-requested 559 sidepull brake,  so it has cantilever
> brakes.  That, and possibly some different lugs, is a difference.
>
> Normally i like cantis but, in this case, I'm not sure you gain any tire
> or fender clearance over the later frames and/or hilsens, and would suspect
> that bridges or chainstay width or crown height are the determiners.
> Perhaps someone else knows.
>
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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[iamkeith]

Bill made me spit coffee out my nose. Thanks alot.

The Saluki in question appears to be from early in the run, before tektro made 
the rivendell-requested 559 sidepull brake,  so it has cantilever brakes.  
That, and possibly some different lugs, is a difference.

Normally i like cantis but, in this case, I'm not sure you gain any tire or 
fender clearance over the later frames and/or hilsens, and would suspect that 
bridges or chainstay width or crown height are the determiners.  Perhaps 
someone else knows.

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Christopher Cote]

I can't even begin to guess what that means.

Chris

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[Belopsky]

Just like with everything they sell - lift the sack and there you go ;)

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 9:16:34 AM UTC-4, Christopher Cote wrote:
>
> Have they published the geometry? I see the sizing chart, but I'm curious 
> about the rest of the geometry. Not in the market for one, so I won't waste 
> their time with a call or email. 
>
> Chris
>

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[RBW] FS: Bunch of parts - thomson seatpost, huret shifter, suntour shifters, pedals, ta pro 5 vis crankset

[Belopsky]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/14767344@N07/albums/72157684450126694


seatpost - $100
Shimano pedals - $30
Wellgo pedals - $15
suntour shifters - $40
Huret shifters - $15
TA Pro 5 Vis cranks 170mm with 48t and 36t chainring - $150

Prices shipped usa

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[RBW] Roadini!

[Christopher Cote]

Have they published the geometry? I see the sizing chart, but I'm curious about 
the rest of the geometry. Not in the market for one, so I won't waste their 
time with a call or email. 

Chris

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[RBW] Roadini!

[John G.]

According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are live 
for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what size 
and color did you go for?

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Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Joe Bernard]

In what in hindsight now seems a rather rare occurrence, I've owned both a 54cm 
Saluki and Hilsen, and they both used the same parts. It's the same bike. 

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Re: [Ext] Re: [RBW] Saluki Links

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

;-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 2, 2017, at 8:36 PM, Bill Lindsay 
> wrote:

Cyclofiend's Bleriot page includes a Rivendell comparison between the Bleriot 
and the Saluki

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html

Cyclofiend's Hilsen page includes a Rivendell comparison between the Hilsen and 
the Saluki

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen/index.html

What subtle differences do you think there are?  I think of the 650B Hilsen and 
the Saluki being identical.  Certainly they are functionally identical.  In my 
humble opinion, if there was a 54cm 650B Hilsen and a 54cm Saluki, built up the 
same and you test rode them both blindfolded, you would crash because riding a 
bicycle while blindfolded is really dangerous.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:32:31 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
Justin

Thanks, I found these 2.  I was hoping for one with more RBW write up, like 
they did for the Blerliot.


John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ


-Original Message-
From: Justin, Oakland 
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Sent: Wed, Aug 2, 2017 7:23 pm
Subject: [RBW] Saluki Links

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html#saluki

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/pdf/rbw_saluki_flyer.pdf

-J

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The sender of this email is a retired partner of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher 
& Flom LLP ("Skadden") and is not performing legal service on behalf of 
Skadden. Use by a retired partner of the skadden.com or probonolaw.com domain 
names is in his/her personal capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its 
affiliates.

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Re: [RBW] FS SimpleOne size 60cm

[nawrock]

Sold! 

- Original Message -

From: nawr...@comcast.net 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 4:00:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [RBW] FS SimpleOne size 60cm 

Sale pending! 
Dave 

- Original Message -

From: nawr...@comcast.net 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 4:52:56 AM 
Subject: Fwd: [RBW] FS SimpleOne size 60cm 

Bump and price drop! 
Still available and new price of $1,200 plus shipping via bikeflights. 
Thanks for looking, 
Dave 

- Original Message -

From: nawr...@comcast.net 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 11:51:42 AM 
Subject: [RBW] FS SimpleOne size 60cm 

Greetings, 
Putting my SO up for sale. This is one of a handful that came in with 
horizontal rear drop outs, not the angled ones, and is a great Maroon color. I 
bought this directly from Riv in Sept 2010. It is in really good condition a 
solid 8 out of 10. Has a couple very small nicks here and there, nothing that 
jumps out at you. 

DOS freewheel 17x19 
Shimano Tiagra brake levers 
Tektro CR720 canitlever brakes 
Crank XD2 double 38/40 172.5 
Bottom bracket 107 Tange Super 
Nitto 10cm Stem 
Nitto Albatross CroMo the wide ones 
Cork tape that has amber shellac and hemp twine 
Misha cork grips 
Rich built MA3 rims 
Front hub is Suntour XC2000 
Rear hub is Phil 
Tires are Pasela 700x37 almost new 
The Brooks sadle could be included 
The Nitto touring cages are not included 
The Fenders could be part of the deal, I dont really need them. 
The seat stem is kind of the plain jane one that Riv sells. 

Asking 1,500 plus shipping. 
Paypal or Postal Money order works for me. 

Thanks for looking! 


Dave 
Fort Collins, CO 




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