Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Joe Bernard]

Previous response to Paul is deleted but some of you will see it in email. 
Please disregard, I misunderstood his post. 

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Joe Bernard]

If your implication is that everyone is supposed to know to use two wrenches on 
a standard Technomic, everyone does not know this. The standard and Deluxe (or 
Tallux) are otherwise visually identical and I presume most people use the same 
single hex key on both, as with most other single-bolt stems. I would never 
have expected that stem to fail that way. 

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[RBW] Bike Friday questions

[Kent Peterson -- Eugene, Oregon]

I run 1*8 on my e-Friday. A 1*10 is probably how I'd set up a bike if I was 
building a Friday for myself today.

BTW, since SRAM discontinued the 3*9 hubs (successors to the 3*8 and the old 
Sachs 3*7) keeping those old systems running is becoming more and more an 
exercise in grave robbing. Kind of like at the end of the space shuttle program 
when NASA had to grab a part from the Enterprise (which they'd donated to the 
Smithsonian) to make one of the last shuttle flights happen.

As for Bike Friday's horrible website, I was just commenting today that our 
company slogan should be:

  Bike Friday: We build bikes, not websites.

Kent Peterson
eBike mechanic at Bike Friday in beautiful Eugene, Oregon

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[RBW] Re: Bike Friday questions

[Kent Peterson -- Eugene, Oregon]

Those cranks are FSA Gossamers. The BB shell is a standard 68 mm, so you can 
replace the outboard bearing BB with a square taper if you want. 

Kent Peterson
Eugene, OR USA

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Paul Brodek]

The nut likely will not fit tightly against the shelf on a new replacement 
stem. That's not how it's designed. I've wrenched hundreds, owned dozens, 
and every one of them was exactly the same. You've got about 1mm of space 
between the top of the nut and shelf/ledge, which allows the nut to rotate 
slightly. That is how they're made.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 3:02:36 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Leah
>
> You should not be left holding the bag on this.  I suggest contacting RBW, 
> struggling or not, and see what they can do for you.  RBW and Soma are not 
> at fault if the stem did not meet design, but RBW or Soma should step up 
> and see what they can do for you.  Soma seems to be not responding very 
> well, so it's time time to ask RBW .
>
> I think we would all like to now why this happened and Nitto is the only 
> one who could do it, since its their product, their design.
>
> When you buy the new stem, please inspect it very carefully for tight fit 
> of the hex nut to the shelf/ledge and also ensure the interior of the clamp 
> is clean and smooth, with no signs of gouging or any visible burrs existing 
> above the surface.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 1:49:19 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Rob. I’m pretty small potatoes, but I’m flattered that you think 
>> I have a social media presence. 
>>
>> Paul, I know, I feel conflicted, too. I really should talk to Riv but 
>> can’t bring myself to do it. I ordered the stem at a time that Riv was 
>> struggling and needed business. Instead of getting it through SomaFab, I 
>> had Riv order it. I just can’t make them handle it! I’v gone to Soma, and 
>> if the Soma route doesn’t work, I’ll be spending another $130 on the same 
>> stem, I suppose (when it comes back in stock). And what of my bar? I have 
>> to hope it’s not compromised from the damage the stem inflicted. Sigh.
>>
>> I know user error could certainly be a factor here, but honestly, I doubt 
>> if I’m capable of over-tightening a bolt. And it’s pretty straightforward 
>> how to clamp stem to bar, so I am confident I did that right, too. 
>> Unbelievable as it is, I think it’s just a faulty stem. 
>>
>> It’s 2020 - we’re used to being disappointed!
>> Leah
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 9:47 AM, Paul Brodek  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Having been in the bicycle components business, I'm a little out of sorts 
>> thinking about how to address this post.
>>
>> I'll start out by saying that I think Nitto is one of the best parts mfrs 
>> in terms of design, QC and attention to detail.
>>
>> I'll also say that I've used Nitto stems with this design for decades, 
>> both on my own bikes and hundreds/thousands of builds/repairs, and never 
>> seen this happen before. There has always been enough space between the nut 
>> and ledge to allow slight rotation of the nut. But I've never seen the nut 
>> as much as score the ledge, much less wear away enough metal to allow the 
>> nut to rotate. 
>>
>> From being on the mfr side, I know that the observations of one, or even 
>> many, humans to hundreds/thousands of examples may mean little compared to 
>> the hundreds of thousands of units the mfr has produced and shipped. Well, 
>> my saying "I've never seen that before" means little in the big picture. Me 
>> or someone else saying "I've seen that often" would mean something. "I've 
>> never seen that happen before" doesn't mean much, because there's always 
>> the chance the item in question has QC issues, and maybe there's a first 
>> time for everything. But even though I know my saying "I've never seen that 
>> before" doesn't necessarily have much meaning, I do want to say I've never 
>> seen that happen before. I did say I'm out of sorts here...
>>
>> I've always thought the nut/ledge dimensions and fit were sub-optimal, 
>> but I never saw it cause a problem, and I assumed Nitto designed it that 
>> way for a reason. But I always wished that fit were better/tighter, that 
>> the nut had very little room to rotate. I always thought the ledge should 
>> 1-2mm closer to the top of the nut, and maybe a little taller/deeper as 
>> well.
>>
>> Looking at it kinda forensically, I can think of a few possibilities here:
>> 1. Bolt hole is drilled too low
>> 2. Hole position is correct, but casting is off, with too much space 
>> between nut/ledge, or ledge is too shallow to resist nut turning
>> 3. Stem hardness is below spec, softer metal more susceptible to allowing 
>> nut rotation
>> 4. Nut is undersized, so too much space between nut/ledge
>> 5. Bolt was significantly over-torqued during installation
>> 6. Bolt was initially tightened without ensuring nut was flush with stem 
>> face, with the nut point digging/fretting into the stem, starting the gouge 
>> that allowed the nut to rotate
>>
>> I might have missed something, but that's all that comes to mind. I don't 
>> know enough 

[RBW] Re: Travel bikes

[Nick Payne]

When I was travelling a lot for work about 20 years ago, I bought myself a 
2nd hand Air Friday, and took it on a large number of business trips. It 
came with it's own medium size hard shell suitcase into which it packed for 
transport. Unpacking and assembling it from the suitcase took 10-15 
minutes, packing about five minutes longer.

It rode pretty much like a normal bike - the longest ride I can remember 
taking it on was about 160km from Lyon to Aix-Les-Bains (caught the train 
back to Lyon). With the saddle cantilevered at the end of a titanium 
suspension beam, the ride was actually more comfortable than on a standard 
frame, in spite of the small wheels and skinny tyres, and I never really 
noticed any bounce from sitting at the end of the beam. As well as complete 
disassembly, it also had a pivot at the bottom bracket that allowed the 
frame to fold in half in about 30 seconds to get it into a car boot.

Nick

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[RBW] Re: Bike Friday questions

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, your Llama should have a normal 68mm BB shell, the two-piece crank with 
outboard bearings just looks and mounts differently. It doesn't require a 
special shell. 

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[RBW] Re: Bike Friday questions

[Drw]

Thanks bill, that makes sense. I see they sell one if you are running just a 
single front ring. 

I’d also be fine removing the current bb and going with a square taper/familiar 
crank. Just not sure if that’s all compativlble. I’ve been stuck in my ways and 
am not familiar with this new stuff. 

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[RBW] Re: Bike Friday questions

[Bill Schairer]

My NWT is a 1x with an internal 3 sp/ 7 sp cassette hub. I think you need to 
run it with a chain guard to keep the chain on. I have from time to time made 
it a 2x but found, I guess with the short drive line, it would change 
chainrings on its own.

Bill S

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[RBW] Re: Bike Friday questions

[Drw]

Haha well at least I now know. Also maybe with crank ideas we can now tailor it 
towards a 1x, since that’s a viable option. 

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Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Jay Lonner]

So I'm now well on my way to ordering up some Bikes Friday and thought I'd 
report back on what I've learned. While the email correspondence has been 
prompt and professional, I'd like to emphasize Kent's point that 
interacting with an actual human being in real time is invaluable. I had 
the first of what I'm sure will prove to be several phone calls with a BF 
rep today (who btw was totally conversant with Grant and all things Riv) 
and here are some interesting things that I've learned:

- For any sort of serious touring the options boil down to the New World 
Tourist or the Diamond Llama.
- The Diamond Llama offers three benefits. 1) Can accommodate heavier 
riders 2) Can handle tires up to 2.1" regardless of brakes (NWT limited to 
1.75" with rim brakes), 3) Aesthetics.
- The Diamond Llama cannot accommodate belt drives, while the NWT can.
- The Diamond Llama does not allow for a folding configuration where the 
drivetrain remains in one unit, creating the potential for the chain 
falling off during folding.

In light of the above I'm leaning strongly toward the NWT.

More to come as the conversation advances. Many thanks to those who have 
weighed in.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 8:42:25 AM UTC-7, Tirebiter ATX wrote:
>
> I own a 2013 Llama.  It’s been an amazing versatile bike for me.  On and 
> off road touring and bike camping. 
> Lyman in Austin
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 7:43 PM Drw > 
> wrote:
>
>> Well this thread now has me going to check out a bike Friday llama (not 
>> diamond) off Craigslist tomorrow. I think it’s maybe a 2014. Is there 
>> anything in particular I should be looking at/for?
>>
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>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[Bill Lindsay]

Come on Ryan!  The clearance shots are informative, but give us the 
canonical full profile.  Slap me in the face with a big orange bike!  Sock 
it to me!

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 2:49:48 PM UTC-7, Abcyclehank wrote:
>
> David, 
>
> As just an average mechanic I decided to let RBW deal with the build on my 
> Susie.  I also purchased a Gus that I intended to build up as a 1x12 SRAM 
> setup but am now questioning the endeavor.   
>
> My XL Susie has a SILVER 184 triple (44x34x24 chainrings).  A Shimano XT 
> front derailer, Shimano HG 9 speed rear cassette (CS-HG201-9) and Sunrace 
> R90 rear derailer. 
> Running 29 x 2.8 Teravail Coronado tires w Tubes. 
>
> Following is the clearance available in Small Large with good clearance on 
> top of chainstay 5-6mm underneath only 2-3mm. 
>
> Enjoying and learning so much from others expertise about gearing, 
> clearance, 73/68bottom brackets etc. 
>
> I personally think it would be a shame to ride anything narrower than a 
> 2.6” tire.  Good combinations will surface and riders Will absolutely love 
> these bikes.   
> The arrival of my two new Hillibikes will release 3 bikes back to the 
> wild.  A 64 Clem L frame and fork, a 64cm Bombadil I never expected to ever 
> sell, and a 25+LWB Jones with original 135mm rear MTB rear stay distance. 
>
> Sincerely, 
> Ryan Hankinson 
> West Michigan 
>

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[RBW] Re: Inaugural ride for Matthews Road Bike for Road (AM and Fixed hub 26" wheel road bike)

[Ian A]

Love that colour. What a perfect choice. Please post the RAL!

How does it perform? You mentioned a potentially compliant and planing frame. 
Does this frame have more tire clearance than your RBW frames? Will you be 
tempted by wider rubber at some point?

A very well executed design and build indeed.

IanA Alberta Canada

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[RBW] Re: Orange Ram Touchup Paint

[Bill Lindsay]

Which kit did you buy?  The $36 "Just the color" one?  Or the $46 
"Essential" kit?  Or something else?  

Best of luck with it.  It sounds like the right 3-layer approach, provided 
the color is right.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 3:33:27 PM UTC-7, Bruce Curry wrote:
>
> Just pulled the trigger in the Lamborghini Huracan Orancio Borealis C5C5 
> touch-up paint from Touch-up as others have mentioned. Will let you know 
> how it looks when it is received.   See link below.  
>
>
> https://touchupdirect.com/touch-up-paint/lamborghini/huracan/#pf-year=all=111820=jar
>   
>  Leave the year blank.  Good luck!  Bruce 
>
>
> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 2:27:49 AM UTC-7, Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>> If you take the frame to a paint store, they should be able to scan it 
>> and produce a matching colour paint, though it will just be plain and not 
>> metalflake. Alternatively, see if you can find some orange metalflake nail 
>> polish that's a close match. I found some blue metalflake nail polish that 
>> is a good match for the paint on my Romulus, and I touch up any scratches 
>> through to the bare metal with that.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Friday questions

[Joe Bernard]

Yep, that's newfangled outboard bearing style. Time for folks who know this 
newfangled stuff to chime in!

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[RBW] Bike Friday questions

[Joe Bernard]

1. There should be a shim inside the threadless 1-1/8 stem to step it doej to 
the steering mast, every BF I've owned came that way. 

2. The "kickstand" is similar to Brompton if you put the BF rack on, the bike 
will park on it (disclaimer: I've seen this, my BFs didn't have racks). That 
rack is 'normal bike' height to facilitate using touring panniers, the low rack 
on Bromptons is basically useless for anything but a trunk bag and being a 
kickstand.

3. You'll need to determine if the bottom bracket is Octalink/ISIS "pipe style" 
or outboard bearings. If you post pics of the cranks we'll probably be able to 
sort that out. 

4. 1x is great for a folder, lots of Bike Fridays are set up that way. 

5. See 2

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[RBW] Re: Inaugural ride for Matthews Road Bike for Road (AM and Fixed hub 26" wheel road bike)

[Patrick Moore]

Let's try the profile view again.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 6:42 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> 31 miles with the AM hub -- the new 120 mm Surly wheel won't be built for
> a couple of weeks yet, such is the work backlog in the nearby shop. But the
> bike was wonderful with the AM hub which with the 48 X 19 drivetrain gives
> 70" / 63" / 54" (overdrive / direct / underdrive).
>
> It has been a long time since I rode a SA freewheel hub, and I got
> aquainted again with the "soft" feeling when you engage the hub through the
> epicyclic gears; also, with the half-pedal-revolution takeup of the pawls.
> Both would be annoying if one weren't familiar with these traits.
>
> It's very easy to swap cogs, and I have a collection of some 4 or 5. For
> now, overdrive in my usual cruising gear is fine; the 63" is a nice lazy
> gear, headwind gear, or slight uphill gear, but I may eventually make
> direct the cruising gear and kick overdrive up to 79" as a tailwind gear,
> and deal with the 61" low. *OR* I can add a second cog to the driver; say
> 17 and 19, but we'll see.
>
> I generally dislike more than 5 gi difference in the cruising range, but I
> consider this drivetrain as a ss drive with a lazy gear and a climbing
> gear; that works!
>
> The big air between rear fender and tire is to accommodate a 40-45 mm
> Pasela or Nachez Pass and about a 8 tooth cog difference -- there's about
> an inch of usable space. I will probably add a link to get the axle toward
> the middle of the slot.
>
> The trigger is nice and in a nice place. The entire system, except for the
> shifter itself, is QR -- slip out the cable from the trigger, slip out the
> cable from the housing stops, break the pull chain -- it has a very British
> "most crude but very effective" indicator chain QR with a prong at top with
> a tab that snaps into a hole in the bottom part. The wingnuts are original
> issue SA and there is just barely enough axle threading on the left. But
> they don't slip, at least not in the 200 or so miles I've put on them with
> this hub and the earlier S3X.
>
> The parts swapped right over, which was the plan. Only, I had Shoe Goo'd
> ball bearings into stem binder bolt allen socket and ditto for the sp
> binder; Chauncey got the ball out of the stem bolt but neither of us could
> get it out of the seatpost bolt, so I had to cut the bolt. I replaced the
> ball bearings, but used wax this time.
>
> Fillet brazed, except for bilaminate construction at the seattube/top tube
> junction.
>
> Only thing now to do, besides wait for the new fixed wheel, is clearcoat
> the decals.
>
> Altogether, I am, as they say, "chuffed!"
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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062620-
Description: Binary data

[RBW] Bike Friday questions

[Drw]

So, due to the travel bike thread, I find myself the owner of a 2014 (I think) 
bike Friday llama. If this is too off topic, let me know, but I kind of think 
of this as a folding rivendell. Overall I’m very impressed. Folding is nothing 
like the brompton, but the ride quality, for me, seems vastly improved.  That 
said, the bike Friday website makes rivendell’s look state of the art, and I’m 
having a hard time finding any info outside of videos the company made in 2009. 
So...

1. It has a threaded 1 1/4 steerer but the clamp area is 1”. Do they make a 1 
1/4 steerer with a 1 1/8 clamp area? 1” threadless stems don’t have a ton of 
options. Also I see they had a folding stem at some point, but it was 
discontinued?

2. Is there a kickstand or something to hold it up when folded, or at least 
something to protect the little prong it balances on. 

3. I bought the bike without pedals, got it home and realized the crank threads 
are entirely stripped. It has a non square taper (external?) bb. Any crank 
recommendations that would not require a new bb and keep hearing similar. 
Something xd2/silver ish but for a modern bottom bracket?

4. While I’m having to get a new crank, is 1x ridiculous on a folding bike?

5. 2 racks came with the bike. A Topeak and a bike Friday rack. I’m surprised 
the bike Friday rack is as tall as the topeak which is made for a normal bike. 
Why are bf racks not much shorter like brompton racks? 

Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Re: 559 X 42-46 mm tires -- suggestions?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all. I have a used Pasela that measured 41.23 mm on my 21 mm rim at
about 40 psi.

I guess the question comes down to: Is it worth spending for Paselas, only
to up and spend more on the Nachez Passes? So, next question: Have any of
you used both of these, that is the ~40 mm Pasela and the Nachez Pass; and
how much noticeably better (I emphasize "notice") is the NP?

Anyway, the Elk Passes rolled wonderfully on the bikes inaugural ride just
now.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 559 X 42-46 mm tires -- suggestions?

[Eamon Nordquist]

My Paselas in 26x1.75 (both wire and folding) have been right at 42mm on Rhyno 
Lites.

Eamon

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[Jeffrey Arita]

David,

You are most welcome - at least from our perspective for a completely 
different bike and drivetrain and wheelset

I would encourage anyone to try the GD.  If one doesn't have the time to 
tackle the entire route in one go that is completely understandable.  
Consider doing a section.  We met several folks that were on their third or 
fourth seasons as they return again and again to ride the different 
sections.  It is not impossible and as many cyclo-tourists can attest, once 
you are out there, you simply find your rhythm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqCYE-Smqf4  

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-7 David Wadstrup wrote:

>
> Jeff,
>
> Thanks so much for such a detailed explanation!  This really put all the 
> technologies and standards in perspective and helped me wrap my head around 
> everything.  What a experience that ride must have been!  I'm thoroughly 
> jealous.
>
> Best,
>
> David
>

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[RBW] Re: Orange Ram Touchup Paint

[Bruce Curry]

Just pulled the trigger in the Lamborghini Huracan Orancio Borealis C5C5 
touch-up paint from Touch-up as others have mentioned. Will let you know 
how it looks when it is received.   See link below.  

https://touchupdirect.com/touch-up-paint/lamborghini/huracan/#pf-year=all=111820=jar
  
 Leave the year blank.  Good luck!  Bruce 


On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 2:27:49 AM UTC-7, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> If you take the frame to a paint store, they should be able to scan it and 
> produce a matching colour paint, though it will just be plain and not 
> metalflake. Alternatively, see if you can find some orange metalflake nail 
> polish that's a close match. I found some blue metalflake nail polish that 
> is a good match for the paint on my Romulus, and I touch up any scratches 
> through to the bare metal with that.
>
> Nick
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[Kurt Manley]

Maybe not the solution you are looking for but if I was in your situation I 
would change to a 1x setup for a bit more clearance. A 135 rear and a 2.6 
is going to be a challenge. A 1x 12 speed can have all the range you'll 
need. You could run a 49mm chainline with a 1x and the ring would be at 
49mm, where your inner ring with your 48 chainline is probably closer to 
44mm right now.

I've also had major issues with chain suck on my 2x setups on long stay 
bikes ridden offroad. 1x would mostly eliminate that since it mostly 
happened while shifting. A clutch RD seems like a major advantage here too. 

I run those exact tires on my bike and it's worth some effort to run them. 

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-7, David Wadstrup wrote:
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Thanks so much for such a detailed explanation!  This really put all the 
> technologies and standards in perspective and helped me wrap my head around 
> everything.  What a experience that ride must have been!  I'm thoroughly 
> jealous.
>
> Best,
>
> David
>

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[David Wadstrup]

Jeff,

Thanks so much for such a detailed explanation!  This really put all the 
technologies and standards in perspective and helped me wrap my head around 
everything.  What a experience that ride must have been!  I'm thoroughly 
jealous.

Best,

David

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[Jim Whorton]

This conversation is over my head technically, so what I have to contribute 
is more of a confession than a suggestion.  Some weeks ago I posted that I 
was having a similar problem on my Clem, which is totally stock, including 
the tires.  Chain touched rear tire in low-low combination.  Got lots of 
patient advice and some commiseration.  Later I was looking at it on the 
stand again and saw that the chain only dragged on the bottom, going 
towards the rear derailleur.  On the top, going towards the front ring, no 
drag.  So I adjusted the limit screw on the rear derailleur, problem 
solved.  Embarrassing to admit, but I simply had the RD out of adjustment.

Someone told me in that thread that long chainstays = less clearance 
between chain and tire, which did not make sense to me until I finally sat 
down and drew it on paper.  Yep, it's true, clearance is tight but the 
stock Clem is fine when the RD is adjusted right.

I've learned a lot from this group.

Jim


On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 8:39:33 PM UTC-4, David Wadstrup wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I've been building my Susie over the past couple of days, and just 
> discovered I've got an issue with the chain rubbing the rear tire when I'm 
> in the lowest gear.  It's a Shimano 2x12 drivetrain, and seeing as it's not 
> a square taper BB, and has more than 9 speeds, I'm out of my league.  The 
> tire is a 2.6 Teravail.  Does anyone have experience with this kind of 
> problem?  
>
> The only real solution I can think of is to add a 2.5mm spacer to the BB's 
> drive side.  The chain just ever so slightly touches the tire now, and so 
> I'm hoping that moving the chainrings out 2.5mm will be enough to solve the 
> problem.  BUT 
>
> A part of me wonders whether this is advisable.  Will my shifting be 
> compromised due to altering the chainline of the crank?  Will widening the 
> space between the BB's cups harm the BB due to lessening the thread 
> engagement?  Will it harm the cranks for the same reason? Is this solution 
> more of a problem than the rubbing problem? 
>
> What about other solutions?  Does anyone have any advice?  This is driving 
> me crazy, and I'd really love to hear any and all suggestions!
>
> Thank you!
>

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Joe Bernard]

I agree with John. Tell Riv, a place you've spent an Oh Lordy amount of money 
and will again later this year when the Platypus happens. 

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah

You should not be left holding the bag on this.  I suggest contacting RBW, 
struggling or not, and see what they can do for you.  RBW and Soma are not 
at fault if the stem did not meet design, but RBW or Soma should step up 
and see what they can do for you.  Soma seems to be not responding very 
well, so it's time time to ask RBW .

I think we would all like to now why this happened and Nitto is the only 
one who could do it, since its their product, their design.

When you buy the new stem, please inspect it very carefully for tight fit 
of the hex nut to the shelf/ledge and also ensure the interior of the clamp 
is clean and smooth, with no signs of gouging or any visible burrs existing 
above the surface.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 1:49:19 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Thanks, Rob. I’m pretty small potatoes, but I’m flattered that you think I 
> have a social media presence. 
>
> Paul, I know, I feel conflicted, too. I really should talk to Riv but 
> can’t bring myself to do it. I ordered the stem at a time that Riv was 
> struggling and needed business. Instead of getting it through SomaFab, I 
> had Riv order it. I just can’t make them handle it! I’v gone to Soma, and 
> if the Soma route doesn’t work, I’ll be spending another $130 on the same 
> stem, I suppose (when it comes back in stock). And what of my bar? I have 
> to hope it’s not compromised from the damage the stem inflicted. Sigh.
>
> I know user error could certainly be a factor here, but honestly, I doubt 
> if I’m capable of over-tightening a bolt. And it’s pretty straightforward 
> how to clamp stem to bar, so I am confident I did that right, too. 
> Unbelievable as it is, I think it’s just a faulty stem. 
>
> It’s 2020 - we’re used to being disappointed!
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 9:47 AM, Paul Brodek > 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Having been in the bicycle components business, I'm a little out of sorts 
> thinking about how to address this post.
>
> I'll start out by saying that I think Nitto is one of the best parts mfrs 
> in terms of design, QC and attention to detail.
>
> I'll also say that I've used Nitto stems with this design for decades, 
> both on my own bikes and hundreds/thousands of builds/repairs, and never 
> seen this happen before. There has always been enough space between the nut 
> and ledge to allow slight rotation of the nut. But I've never seen the nut 
> as much as score the ledge, much less wear away enough metal to allow the 
> nut to rotate. 
>
> From being on the mfr side, I know that the observations of one, or even 
> many, humans to hundreds/thousands of examples may mean little compared to 
> the hundreds of thousands of units the mfr has produced and shipped. Well, 
> my saying "I've never seen that before" means little in the big picture. Me 
> or someone else saying "I've seen that often" would mean something. "I've 
> never seen that happen before" doesn't mean much, because there's always 
> the chance the item in question has QC issues, and maybe there's a first 
> time for everything. But even though I know my saying "I've never seen that 
> before" doesn't necessarily have much meaning, I do want to say I've never 
> seen that happen before. I did say I'm out of sorts here...
>
> I've always thought the nut/ledge dimensions and fit were sub-optimal, but 
> I never saw it cause a problem, and I assumed Nitto designed it that way 
> for a reason. But I always wished that fit were better/tighter, that the 
> nut had very little room to rotate. I always thought the ledge should 1-2mm 
> closer to the top of the nut, and maybe a little taller/deeper as well.
>
> Looking at it kinda forensically, I can think of a few possibilities here:
> 1. Bolt hole is drilled too low
> 2. Hole position is correct, but casting is off, with too much space 
> between nut/ledge, or ledge is too shallow to resist nut turning
> 3. Stem hardness is below spec, softer metal more susceptible to allowing 
> nut rotation
> 4. Nut is undersized, so too much space between nut/ledge
> 5. Bolt was significantly over-torqued during installation
> 6. Bolt was initially tightened without ensuring nut was flush with stem 
> face, with the nut point digging/fretting into the stem, starting the gouge 
> that allowed the nut to rotate
>
> I might have missed something, but that's all that comes to mind. I don't 
> know enough about how Nitto mfrs stems, acquires parts and does QC to know 
> which of the mfr-related issues are possibilities. 
>
> The hole in OP's stem doesn't look any lower than the hole in the 
> half-a-dozen Technomics I've got scattered around my desk, but fractions of 
> a mm that my eye might not spot might matter here. None of my stems are 
> crappy enough that I'd be tempted to try to duplicate making a gouge like 
> that myself, but by eyeball it doesn't look like my gouge would be any 
> deeper.
>
> If it were my stem, I'd reckon there's 

[RBW] Re: What shade of orange?

[Joe Bernard]

Patrick, I don't like orange on bikes. Except on days that I do 

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Joe Bernard]

I would discount user error. The design requires the pointy corner of a steel 
nut to dig against an aluminum shelf and I can't see how this was ever a good 
idea, but I've used them and torqued them lots without the design failing. 
Lance Armstrong's teammates nicknamed him "Centimeter" because of his incessant 
adjusting of bars and seatpost and that's me, I'm constantly fiddling with my 
riding position and my stem clamp bolt goes through easily a dozen 
loosening/tightening sessions..I've never had a standard Technomic do what 
Leah's did.

As I said a few comments up there, it's good that it's tight now with a wrench 
holding the nut and should be fine. As I also said much earlier, she needs a 
new stem! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[David Wadstrup]

Also, I'd just like to say generally that I am EXCEPTIONALLY happy with and 
excited about this bike!  The chain issue I was seeking help with has in no 
way altered my appreciation of this unbelievably smart and well made bike. 
 I feel really fortunate to be the proud owner of one and am super grateful 
to Rivendell for making it.  I'm also really grateful to everyone here 
who's helped me expand my amateur bike mechanic skills.  Thank you!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[David Wadstrup]

Hi Kim,

I've ridden other long wheelbased Rivs offroad and have never noticed or 
had any kind of problem with the chain flopping around.  And I'm definitely 
not worried about it happening with the Susie.

Thanks for passing the info along!


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Re: [RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[Joe Bernard]

Hmm, let me see if I can decipher some stuff here. 

1. It sounds like that BB is already using a 2.5mm spacer, my recommendation is 
therefore moot, I don't think adding a second one is going to be safe. 

2. I think Grant's note "2.5 driveside" references that one spacer (not a tire).

3. Grant's note about a little chain rub on the tire not mattering in low gear 
under power is probably accurate, I see chainline stuff in my work stand that 
goes away under the load of a rider pedaling. Just shift up before the descent! 
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: 559 X 42-46 mm tires -- suggestions?

[RichS]

Patrick,

If spending less on tires is the driving factor, then I concur with Jason on 
the choice of 1.75 Paselas. I think I paid $45 or so for a pair of recently 
purchased Pasela Pro Tites now on my Atlantis. They measure 41mm on Sun 
RhynoLite rims.

Certainly not as refined as the Herse models but not bad either. 

Best,
Rich in ATL

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Leah Peterson]

Thanks, Rob. I’m pretty small potatoes, but I’m flattered that you think I have 
a social media presence. 

Paul, I know, I feel conflicted, too. I really should talk to Riv but can’t 
bring myself to do it. I ordered the stem at a time that Riv was struggling and 
needed business. Instead of getting it through SomaFab, I had Riv order it. I 
just can’t make them handle it! I’v gone to Soma, and if the Soma route doesn’t 
work, I’ll be spending another $130 on the same stem, I suppose (when it comes 
back in stock). And what of my bar? I have to hope it’s not compromised from 
the damage the stem inflicted. Sigh.

I know user error could certainly be a factor here, but honestly, I doubt if 
I’m capable of over-tightening a bolt. And it’s pretty straightforward how to 
clamp stem to bar, so I am confident I did that right, too. Unbelievable as it 
is, I think it’s just a faulty stem. 

It’s 2020 - we’re used to being disappointed!
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 9:47 AM, Paul Brodek  wrote:
> 
> 
> Having been in the bicycle components business, I'm a little out of sorts 
> thinking about how to address this post.
> 
> I'll start out by saying that I think Nitto is one of the best parts mfrs in 
> terms of design, QC and attention to detail.
> 
> I'll also say that I've used Nitto stems with this design for decades, both 
> on my own bikes and hundreds/thousands of builds/repairs, and never seen this 
> happen before. There has always been enough space between the nut and ledge 
> to allow slight rotation of the nut. But I've never seen the nut as much as 
> score the ledge, much less wear away enough metal to allow the nut to rotate. 
> 
> From being on the mfr side, I know that the observations of one, or even 
> many, humans to hundreds/thousands of examples may mean little compared to 
> the hundreds of thousands of units the mfr has produced and shipped. Well, my 
> saying "I've never seen that before" means little in the big picture. Me or 
> someone else saying "I've seen that often" would mean something. "I've never 
> seen that happen before" doesn't mean much, because there's always the chance 
> the item in question has QC issues, and maybe there's a first time for 
> everything. But even though I know my saying "I've never seen that before" 
> doesn't necessarily have much meaning, I do want to say I've never seen that 
> happen before. I did say I'm out of sorts here...
> 
> I've always thought the nut/ledge dimensions and fit were sub-optimal, but I 
> never saw it cause a problem, and I assumed Nitto designed it that way for a 
> reason. But I always wished that fit were better/tighter, that the nut had 
> very little room to rotate. I always thought the ledge should 1-2mm closer to 
> the top of the nut, and maybe a little taller/deeper as well.
> 
> Looking at it kinda forensically, I can think of a few possibilities here:
> 1. Bolt hole is drilled too low
> 2. Hole position is correct, but casting is off, with too much space between 
> nut/ledge, or ledge is too shallow to resist nut turning
> 3. Stem hardness is below spec, softer metal more susceptible to allowing nut 
> rotation
> 4. Nut is undersized, so too much space between nut/ledge
> 5. Bolt was significantly over-torqued during installation
> 6. Bolt was initially tightened without ensuring nut was flush with stem 
> face, with the nut point digging/fretting into the stem, starting the gouge 
> that allowed the nut to rotate
> 
> I might have missed something, but that's all that comes to mind. I don't 
> know enough about how Nitto mfrs stems, acquires parts and does QC to know 
> which of the mfr-related issues are possibilities. 
> 
> The hole in OP's stem doesn't look any lower than the hole in the 
> half-a-dozen Technomics I've got scattered around my desk, but fractions of a 
> mm that my eye might not spot might matter here. None of my stems are crappy 
> enough that I'd be tempted to try to duplicate making a gouge like that 
> myself, but by eyeball it doesn't look like my gouge would be any deeper.
> 
> If it were my stem, I'd reckon there's plenty of metal there, and use a new 
> nut/bolt, install with two wrenches, and be aware of proper nut orientation 
> and proper torque. Using the triangular beveled nut, and matching bolt, from 
> a Tech Deluxe doesn't work at my end, either. The bolt is definitely too 
> short. If I leave out the thin washer that goes under the bolt head, I can 
> get maybe half a turn, not nearly enough threads, even with a bar in the 
> stem. And even if the bolt were long enough, that wedge is beveled at the 
> top, and the Tech stem ledge is beveled to match, and the Tech stem ledge is 
> deeper. It's not as clean a fit on the Std. I'd feel better with standard nut 
> on the standard Technomic.
> 
> But I'd also understand if somebody else would want to replace the stem.
> 
> I would be interested to hear what Nitto would have to say if they examined 
> the stem. I'd be 

Re: [RBW] Re: 559 X 42-46 mm tires -- suggestions?

[Jason Fuller]

Sorry I missed the question on 1.75 Pasela size - I find they run a bit 
narrow, more like 39-40mm on 25mm [external] rims 

On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 10:12:27 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Jason I had the Pasela in mind and may buy a pair. The 
> Extraterrestrials look a bit beefy and have too much tread for my taste. 
> Sorry, haven't liked Marathons.
>
> I've used PowerBlocks in the 451 size, but found them rather doggish 
> despite others' opinions; at least, the Pasela ought to roll as well.
>
> Others' opinions? I may eventually buy some Nachez Passes, but I'd like to 
> try a cheaper alternative first.
>
> Again, for *occasional* light dirt use, sandy soil. I can fit up to true 
> 45s, I think. There was a similar thread on the boblist recently but that 
> was about 559 X 2"+ tires. 
>
> How wide are your 1.75 Paselas (and how wide are the rims?).
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:09 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
>> I would say 26 x 1.75" Panaracer Pasela will be hard to beat for this 
>> criteria.  Other options I know of being Surly Extraterrestrial 26 x 46c 
>> and Schwalbe Marathon. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 13:15:52 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> God willing, I'll have a new 26" wheel frame into which to fit new 
>>> wheels and tires; and fatter tires. 
>>>
>>> I know about the Nachez Pass. Are there significantly cheaper 
>>> alternatives that provide a good part of the ride quality of the NP EL in 
>>> the 26 X 1.8" size?
>>>
>>> I want something that performs well on pavement, and I will give up dirt 
>>> traction for nice pavement rolling.
>>>
>>> I want something that measures an actual 42-to-46 in the 559 size.
>>>
>>> Also, questions 2 and 3: what is the lightest tube you can use for 
>>> these? (I've bought no 26" tube fatter than 1" wide since about 2010.
>>>
>>> What pressure do you run your 42 or 46 mm tires at? The efficacy of 
>>> sealant in tubes depends on a sufficiently high pressure and I will not be 
>>> using a tubeless setup, for now anyway.
>>>
>>> If any respondent has tires to sell, let's talk.
>>>
>>> Oh, and a last indirectly related request: Am looking to BUY or TRADE a 
>>> petty, silver, internal cam, all-steel QR skewer for a 120 mm hub. Can 
>>> trade a 126 mm Campy, older, very nice.
>>>
>>> Someone offered to sell me a working TC hub (direct and -13.5%; say 76 
>>> and 66 or 71 and 61) at a reasonable price, and I may have the gofast 
>>> respaced to 120 to accommodate a wheel built around this hub. Plans not 
>>> final.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> .
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>
>
> -- 
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> ---
> Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Re: 559 X 42-46 mm tires -- suggestions?

[Jason Fuller]

No need to apologize, I don't like Marathons either haha!  I was stressing 
over tire options in this size before, as I wanted to run 60-62mm metal 
fenders on my Clem and that capped my options at around 48c. A lot of the 
good 26" options seem to run in the 52 - 54mm range.  Fortunately for me, I 
shoehorned some Simworks 74mm fenders in so I could keep the fatter tire 
options.  

For me, I'd spend the extra money on the Naches because it would take me at 
least 3-4 years to wear them out and the ride improvement is easily worth 
it for me.  But I also understand not every bike needs $70ea tires. Paselas 
don't have quite the same feel, but can't knock em 



On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 10:12:27 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Jason I had the Pasela in mind and may buy a pair. The 
> Extraterrestrials look a bit beefy and have too much tread for my taste. 
> Sorry, haven't liked Marathons.
>
> I've used PowerBlocks in the 451 size, but found them rather doggish 
> despite others' opinions; at least, the Pasela ought to roll as well.
>
> Others' opinions? I may eventually buy some Nachez Passes, but I'd like to 
> try a cheaper alternative first.
>
> Again, for *occasional* light dirt use, sandy soil. I can fit up to true 
> 45s, I think. There was a similar thread on the boblist recently but that 
> was about 559 X 2"+ tires. 
>
> How wide are your 1.75 Paselas (and how wide are the rims?).
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:09 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
>> I would say 26 x 1.75" Panaracer Pasela will be hard to beat for this 
>> criteria.  Other options I know of being Surly Extraterrestrial 26 x 46c 
>> and Schwalbe Marathon. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 13:15:52 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> God willing, I'll have a new 26" wheel frame into which to fit new 
>>> wheels and tires; and fatter tires. 
>>>
>>> I know about the Nachez Pass. Are there significantly cheaper 
>>> alternatives that provide a good part of the ride quality of the NP EL in 
>>> the 26 X 1.8" size?
>>>
>>> I want something that performs well on pavement, and I will give up dirt 
>>> traction for nice pavement rolling.
>>>
>>> I want something that measures an actual 42-to-46 in the 559 size.
>>>
>>> Also, questions 2 and 3: what is the lightest tube you can use for 
>>> these? (I've bought no 26" tube fatter than 1" wide since about 2010.
>>>
>>> What pressure do you run your 42 or 46 mm tires at? The efficacy of 
>>> sealant in tubes depends on a sufficiently high pressure and I will not be 
>>> using a tubeless setup, for now anyway.
>>>
>>> If any respondent has tires to sell, let's talk.
>>>
>>> Oh, and a last indirectly related request: Am looking to BUY or TRADE a 
>>> petty, silver, internal cam, all-steel QR skewer for a 120 mm hub. Can 
>>> trade a 126 mm Campy, older, very nice.
>>>
>>> Someone offered to sell me a working TC hub (direct and -13.5%; say 76 
>>> and 66 or 71 and 61) at a reasonable price, and I may have the gofast 
>>> respaced to 120 to accommodate a wheel built around this hub. Plans not 
>>> final.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
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>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 559 X 42-46 mm tires -- suggestions?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Jason I had the Pasela in mind and may buy a pair. The
Extraterrestrials look a bit beefy and have too much tread for my taste.
Sorry, haven't liked Marathons.

I've used PowerBlocks in the 451 size, but found them rather doggish
despite others' opinions; at least, the Pasela ought to roll as well.

Others' opinions? I may eventually buy some Nachez Passes, but I'd like to
try a cheaper alternative first.

Again, for *occasional* light dirt use, sandy soil. I can fit up to true
45s, I think. There was a similar thread on the boblist recently but that
was about 559 X 2"+ tires.

How wide are your 1.75 Paselas (and how wide are the rims?).

Thanks.

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:09 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> I would say 26 x 1.75" Panaracer Pasela will be hard to beat for this
> criteria.  Other options I know of being Surly Extraterrestrial 26 x 46c
> and Schwalbe Marathon.
>
> On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 13:15:52 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> God willing, I'll have a new 26" wheel frame into which to fit new wheels
>> and tires; and fatter tires.
>>
>> I know about the Nachez Pass. Are there significantly cheaper
>> alternatives that provide a good part of the ride quality of the NP EL in
>> the 26 X 1.8" size?
>>
>> I want something that performs well on pavement, and I will give up dirt
>> traction for nice pavement rolling.
>>
>> I want something that measures an actual 42-to-46 in the 559 size.
>>
>> Also, questions 2 and 3: what is the lightest tube you can use for these?
>> (I've bought no 26" tube fatter than 1" wide since about 2010.
>>
>> What pressure do you run your 42 or 46 mm tires at? The efficacy of
>> sealant in tubes depends on a sufficiently high pressure and I will not be
>> using a tubeless setup, for now anyway.
>>
>> If any respondent has tires to sell, let's talk.
>>
>> Oh, and a last indirectly related request: Am looking to BUY or TRADE a
>> petty, silver, internal cam, all-steel QR skewer for a 120 mm hub. Can
>> trade a 126 mm Campy, older, very nice.
>>
>> Someone offered to sell me a working TC hub (direct and -13.5%; say 76
>> and 66 or 71 and 61) at a reasonable price, and I may have the gofast
>> respaced to 120 to accommodate a wheel built around this hub. Plans not
>> final.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Paul Brodek]

Having been in the bicycle components business, I'm a little out of sorts 
thinking about how to address this post.

I'll start out by saying that I think Nitto is one of the best parts mfrs 
in terms of design, QC and attention to detail.

I'll also say that I've used Nitto stems with this design for decades, both 
on my own bikes and hundreds/thousands of builds/repairs, and never seen 
this happen before. There has always been enough space between the nut and 
ledge to allow slight rotation of the nut. But I've never seen the nut as 
much as score the ledge, much less wear away enough metal to allow the nut 
to rotate. 

>From being on the mfr side, I know that the observations of one, or even 
many, humans to hundreds/thousands of examples may mean little compared to 
the hundreds of thousands of units the mfr has produced and shipped. Well, 
my saying "I've never seen that before" means little in the big picture. Me 
or someone else saying "I've seen that often" would mean something. "I've 
never seen that happen before" doesn't mean much, because there's always 
the chance the item in question has QC issues, and maybe there's a first 
time for everything. But even though I know my saying "I've never seen that 
before" doesn't necessarily have much meaning, I do want to say I've never 
seen that happen before. I did say I'm out of sorts here...

I've always thought the nut/ledge dimensions and fit were sub-optimal, but 
I never saw it cause a problem, and I assumed Nitto designed it that way 
for a reason. But I always wished that fit were better/tighter, that the 
nut had very little room to rotate. I always thought the ledge should 1-2mm 
closer to the top of the nut, and maybe a little taller/deeper as well.

Looking at it kinda forensically, I can think of a few possibilities here:
1. Bolt hole is drilled too low
2. Hole position is correct, but casting is off, with too much space 
between nut/ledge, or ledge is too shallow to resist nut turning
3. Stem hardness is below spec, softer metal more susceptible to allowing 
nut rotation
4. Nut is undersized, so too much space between nut/ledge
5. Bolt was significantly over-torqued during installation
6. Bolt was initially tightened without ensuring nut was flush with stem 
face, with the nut point digging/fretting into the stem, starting the gouge 
that allowed the nut to rotate

I might have missed something, but that's all that comes to mind. I don't 
know enough about how Nitto mfrs stems, acquires parts and does QC to know 
which of the mfr-related issues are possibilities. 

The hole in OP's stem doesn't look any lower than the hole in the 
half-a-dozen Technomics I've got scattered around my desk, but fractions of 
a mm that my eye might not spot might matter here. None of my stems are 
crappy enough that I'd be tempted to try to duplicate making a gouge like 
that myself, but by eyeball it doesn't look like my gouge would be any 
deeper.

If it were my stem, I'd reckon there's plenty of metal there, and use a new 
nut/bolt, install with two wrenches, and be aware of proper nut orientation 
and proper torque. Using the triangular beveled nut, and matching bolt, 
from a Tech Deluxe doesn't work at my end, either. The bolt is definitely 
too short. If I leave out the thin washer that goes under the bolt head, I 
can get maybe half a turn, not nearly enough threads, even with a bar in 
the stem. And even if the bolt were long enough, that wedge is beveled at 
the top, and the Tech stem ledge is beveled to match, and the Tech stem 
ledge is deeper. It's not as clean a fit on the Std. I'd feel better with 
standard nut on the standard Technomic.

But I'd also understand if somebody else would want to replace the stem.

I would be interested to hear what Nitto would have to say if they examined 
the stem. I'd be thrilled if Nitto redesigned the stem to make that 
nut/ledge fit tighter.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA


On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 9:07:51 AM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Leah
>
> The pictures of the stem shelf were perfect.  Sorry to hear the bolt was 
> too short.
>
> The *direct cause *of the of the circular divot is Nitto drilled the hole 
> for the Stem Bolt *TOO LOW* in the stem clamp . The lower stem bolt/hex 
> nut resulted in the hex nut not being close to the shelf for it's flat to 
> have a large surface area to resist the turning force of the bolt. The hex 
> nut flat rotated through the shelf as you tightened the bolt, producing the 
> small circular divot, resulting in the 'stripped' feeling in you stated in 
> your original post.
>
> The stem was not manufactured to the correct tolerances for the stem bolt 
> hole to stem clap shelf distance.  It's useable with a correctly tightened 
> nut.  However, I would recommend perusing a replacement stem via Soma/Nitto 
> due to the manufacturing problem.  Hopefully, Nitto takes this as a 
> 'learning opportunity' and adjusts their process.
>
> The gouging on the inside of the 

Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Rob Kristoff]

BBDD-
IMO, Nitto would be foolish not to warranty this stem (and bar, since mistakes 
in one damaged the other.) Do they know how much you've $pent on their products 
(and will)? And your massive social media presence?

Now, I'm not encouraging gouging Nitto (see what I did there?) for 'free' 
stuff, but in all the customer service training I've had, they say creating an 
unhappy customer costs a business far more than giving them whatever makes them 
happy. I know you'd likely keep buying from them anyway, but how could they 
know that?

Best, RK

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[kim young]

Hi David.

I was wondering with the long stays and chain if there isn’t going to be a
lot of chain flop when I go off-road?

I wasn’t planning on going bigger then 2.5 when I ordered, but I had
wondered about chain grab. I  was going to use a shark tooth anyway, just
in case.

—-I had asked about the options if I ever wanted to go wider re: how to
build for that, grant sent me this info:


The standard thing-to-do is to use the 2.5 on drive side. We haven't set up
a ShimanoBranded crank, but the Silver 2pc is made to the same std as
Shimano. We've had 2.Eights Teravail tires with single rings, and Silver
normal triples and the chain barely clears the tire (I've ridden it in low
gear). So a 2.6 should be better. But still, a single ring will have more
clearance.

The thing is, the close chain is a problem only on bumpy downhills, when
you climb in low and forget to shift out of it for the ride down. Then, the
tire tread can brab the chain and pull it down. If there's a
chainwidth-or-less clearance btw tire and chainstay, it can jam up. You
won't skid. because the chain can't lock up the wheel. It'll just make
noise and drag.

BUT the Hillibikes have tons of clearance, even with a 2.8, so the chain
can't get jammed. I haven't pulled a chain below the chainstay, but I bet
it would just pop up and out again. I mean, what else could it do?

——-

from kim in az

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:00 AM David Wadstrup 
wrote:

> Oh... two other things of note
>
> 1) my 2.6" Honchos measure 2.55" on Cliffhangers when inflated to 20psi.
>
> 2) regarding that differential... the Susie's beautifully long chainstays
> will help mitigate any issues, I would think and hope.  The longer the
> stays the straighter the chain, right?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Jim Bronson]

Patrick,

I think the quantity of goathorn thorns you encounter in somewhat lowland
New Mexico (meaning, lower than Santa Fe) is somewhat atypical to many
places in the US.

However, running fairly new Pari-Motos on a rainy ACP 600K a few years
back, I once had FIVE flats on the first day, which was roughly 240 miles,
and on the 2nd day of the ride, I had a 6th flat coming right out of the
gate.  Thankfully it dried out shortly thereafter and my last tube held for
the last 120 miles or so.  Had it not, I would have been patching tubes on
the side of the road, which would have been a real problem on the timed
event I was on - the 2nd day was a straight north out and back, and I was
facing a 20+ mph north wind with gusts to 30+ after the cold front
passage.  I arrived at the turnaround control with three minutes to spare.
Another flat would have meant I timed out at the turnaround control.

Thankfully with the stiff tailwind going back to the start, I was able to
finish with almost two hours to spare, we averaged 25-30 mph on the way
back with the wind at our back, expending not very much effort to boot..
Yes, riding my 90s Rivendell Road Standard/Custom (never been sure which)

I switched to Compass LoupLoup the following weekend and with the thicker
on-center tread I've had far less flat even on rainy rides.  Compass tires
are not as flat resistant as say Continental Gatorskins but they represent
a good balance between rolling resistance and flat resistance for my uses.
But the Pari-Motos are just too much.  They ride wonderfully when they do
happen to hold air, but the flat resistance is negligible.

Jim
Austin MSA, TX.



On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 2:22 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I have to laugh. *One* flat every *300* miles? *Three hundred Miles???* *THREE
> HUNDRED MILES?*
>
> When I first mounted original issue PRs on my then-Ram, I got a flat every *5
> (five) (V)* miles, no kidding; I think it was 4 during that first ride;
> yes, I was relatively inured to punctures, took in stride 1 per 20-30
> miles, and carried a battery of remedies including 2 tubes and a full patch
> kit; but 1:5 was a bit much even for me.
>
> Enter, stage left, with drums and canon: *Sealant!* First Stan's, then
> the better (IME) Orange Seal (Endurance for low press tubeless, full-cream
> for tubes). I now ride 175-gram Elk Passes through fields of goatheads,
> laughing scornfully at their feeble agression.
>
> The Challenges are RH EL quality. I am torn between the Challenge
> clinchers and real tubulars for my Libertas build; advise me, O ye wize
> ones.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:06:25 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
> >
> > Having experienced Challenge open tubulars in the form of Parigi Roubaix
> I have to decry Paul's understatement of the extent of the problem.
>  Literally the worst tires to mount I've ever used.   Fabulous ride, but at
> best when brand new and at full thickness I got 1 flat every 300 miles, and
> it went downhill from there as they wore.  To be fair, after they'd been
> mounted for a couple of weeks, it became easier to get them on and off, but
> the initial experience was suitable for Ripley's Believe it or Not.
>
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[RBW] Re: What shade of orange?

[Jeff B]

I'm not a painting expert but have listened to many conversations about 
automotive paint matching. 

I believe the true final color would also depend on your, or your painters, 
primer of choice. A grey primer will probably be closest to the true color, 
but slightly muted and might require a few coats for good coverage. To 
really have the paint pop and not use so many coats you could use white 
primer.

PPG 2764 (which is Flame Red as described by Corvette marketing) paired 
with a white primer can produce a really vivid color without having to buy 
a brighter orange which might be leaning towards a highlighter shade.

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?type=sample=2764=1975=Chevrolet=Corvette=Flame%20Red=corvette1975WA4667

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Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Lyman Labry]

I own a 2013 Llama.  It’s been an amazing versatile bike for me.  On and
off road touring and bike camping.
Lyman in Austin

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 7:43 PM Drw  wrote:

> Well this thread now has me going to check out a bike Friday llama (not
> diamond) off Craigslist tomorrow. I think it’s maybe a 2014. Is there
> anything in particular I should be looking at/for?
>
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[RBW] Re: What shade of orange?

[Doug Hansford]

Kiley,
I must confess to being somewhat anti-orange. I grew up around Athens, GA 
where all things UGa Bulldawgs is a way of life. And, as a child I was a 
huge fan of the Dawgs. Our rivals were Florida, Clemson, and Auburn who all 
wear some shade of orange. Maybe that has transferred to my bicycle 
preferences as well. Having said that, I can appreciate a nice orange 
Rivendell. Are you still planning to buy a Clem L and build it up?
Doug Hansford

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:10:49 AM UTC-4, Kiley Demond wrote:
>
> OK, I have to weigh in because my favorite color is orange. I am a student 
> of orange. True orange is a bit like red, in that a little goes a long way.
>
> In 2015, when I went to Riv to pick a bike in any color as long as it was 
> orange, I picked the Cheviot over the Clem L. Part of the reason I went 
> with the Cheviot was it was a nicer shade orange. The trick with 'good' 
> orange is that it not have any neon effect, errs on the side of red, not 
> pink, and is saturated. The Cheviot orange was darn near perfect, whatever 
> its color number might have been.
>
> P.S. I took my love of orange and bicycles, and the extra height, as sure 
> signs I was part Dutch. Ancestry.com has (orange) crushed that dream.  
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[S. Greco]

I really love the Cypres, and I have ridden the compass equivalent. 
They are super similar, but don't compare IMHO. 
There's some magic in then cypress. What a time to be alive with all these 
amazing tire options :)

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Leah Peterson]

John, you’re like Dr. House. Or Sherlock Holmes! Thanks for that astute 
conclusion - I think you’ve nailed (bolted? Ha!) down the problem perfectly. I 
was in contact with Soma, who talked to Nitto, but Nitto asked really 
elementary questions like, “Is it the right size? Did she install it 
correctly?” And in in the end, they told me to grease the stem (where it does 
into steerer) and the bolt threads. That was the end of our correspondence, but 
I did copy and paste your words and my photos in a new email to Soma today. 

I plan to replace this stem when it comes back in stock on Soma, whether Nitto 
makes this right or not. I just don’t trust my stem anymore, and I’m really 
disgusted that it chewed up my expensive Nitto aluminum bar.

Thanks for this email; truly.
Leah 

Sent from my iPad

>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 6:07 AM, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>>  wrote:
> 
> Leah
> 
> The pictures of the stem shelf were perfect.  Sorry to hear the bolt was too 
> short.
> 
> The direct cause of the of the circular divot is Nitto drilled the hole for 
> the Stem Bolt TOO LOW in the stem clamp . The lower stem bolt/hex nut 
> resulted in the hex nut not being close to the shelf for it's flat to have a 
> large surface area to resist the turning force of the bolt. The hex nut flat 
> rotated through the shelf as you tightened the bolt, producing the small 
> circular divot, resulting in the 'stripped' feeling in you stated in your 
> original post.
> 
> The stem was not manufactured to the correct tolerances for the stem bolt 
> hole to stem clap shelf distance.  It's useable with a correctly tightened 
> nut.  However, I would recommend perusing a replacement stem via Soma/Nitto 
> due to the manufacturing problem.  Hopefully, Nitto takes this as a 'learning 
> opportunity' and adjusts their process.
> 
> The gouging on the inside of the stem and bar clamp area is troubling.  Most 
> likely it was due to the bars rotating in the stem clamp due to insufficient 
> tightening torque resulting from the stem bolt hole problem above.  It is 
> possible Nitto had the gouged in the interior surface of the stem clamp 
> during manufacture or left foreign material side the stem clamp.  
> 
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
> 
> 
>> On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:25:17 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> John asked for a photo when I swapped the bolts. I tried that tonight...bolt 
>> is too short. Sigh. But he asked for photos that show the shelf that the nut 
>> is supposed to rest against. (I think.)
>> 
>> Here are photos of the area in question. I hope you can see what you were 
>> looking for because I’m never taking that nut off again. I’m worried I’m 
>> going to wear it out and it will let me know on my way down Killer Hill.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jun 23, 2020, at 10:32 PM, CB  wrote:
>>> Aside from BBDD's stem issue, a number have noted that the sleeved bars 
>>> sometimes creak. I would expect that the sleeve is inflexible when clamped 
>>> properly in the stem. The bars flex quite a bit, and the flexing may deform 
>>> the inner bar a tiny bit at the ends of the sleeve and cause the creak.
>>> 
>>> A similar effect might be expected between the stem clamp and bars for 
>>> non-sleeved bars, but in that case tightening the clamp would reduce the 
>>> deformation.
>>> -- 
>>> Carl
>>> 
 On June 23, 2020 6:04:56 PM PDT, Joe Bernard  wrote:
 The stem worked fine on her steel bar, I don't know if it has that burr 
 mark on it and I think it's long gone now. I don't imagine even my 
 slightly obsessive bike detective skills are going to ever solve how the 
 dang thing got in there, but I'd sure like to grab a piece of sandpaper 
 and knock it down! 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
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[RBW] What shade of orange?

[Ryan M.]

I like the color of the first pictures bike but do not like the muted color of 
the panels on the other bike.

I had an orange Hillborne and liked that shade, but my favorite is the Ram 
orange color. I liked that enough that I got my Roadeo frame painted that color 
back in the day. Beautiful bike and I’m sure the new owner of that frame loves 
it.  

I think the “louder” orange colors work better on bikes. 

Now when it comes to mustards or silvers/greys or even olives, I like those 
more muted. 

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[RBW] Re: What shade of orange?

[Kiley Demond]

OK, I have to weigh in because my favorite color is orange. I am a student 
of orange. True orange is a bit like red, in that a little goes a long way.

In 2015, when I went to Riv to pick a bike in any color as long as it was 
orange, I picked the Cheviot over the Clem L. Part of the reason I went 
with the Cheviot was it was a nicer shade orange. The trick with 'good' 
orange is that it not have any neon effect, errs on the side of red, not 
pink, and is saturated. The Cheviot orange was darn near perfect, whatever 
its color number might have been.

P.S. I took my love of orange and bicycles, and the extra height, as sure 
signs I was part Dutch. Ancestry.com has (orange) crushed that dream.  


>

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[David Wadstrup]

Oh... two other things of note

1) my 2.6" Honchos measure 2.55" on Cliffhangers when inflated to 20psi.

2) regarding that differential... the Susie's beautifully long chainstays 
will help mitigate any issues, I would think and hope.  The longer the 
stays the straighter the chain, right?

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[David Wadstrup]

This might be too much information, but for those who are curious, I just 
measured for chainline on the Susie.  Shimano's claim of a 48.8 chainline 
on its 2x12 crank is spot on -- I measured 48.7.  The measurement in back, 
however, turned out to be approx. 41.5.  That's a touch over a 7mm 
differential from front to back.  From what I've gathered on the internet 
just now, a differential in mtb drivetrains is to be expected.  But, I also 
gathered that 7mm isn't a small differential, and that extra wear and noise 
may result(still waiting on my FD before I can install the chain and test 
it out.)  So, it seems moving the chainrings outboard to get the chain 
to clear the tire isn't going to work -- it'll increase the already sizable 
differential.  Looks like a narrower tire is in order.  I'll continue the 
build as is and see how it all works while riding and not just in the 
stand.  Hopefully the rub will either disappear or not be such a big deal. 
 If it doesn't disappear and it does turn out to be an issue, I'll just buy 
a new narrower, 2.4 version of the Honcho and sell the spare 2.6 I'll have. 
 That should move the drive-side side of the rear tire inboard about 2.5mm, 
which should be enough.

Anyways, keep the suggestions on fixes coming, and let me know if none of 
this makes any sense.

Thanks again!



On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 8:06:43 AM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>
>
>   Yeah David I'm with you on a not so wide tire as they have their own 
> quirks as you've found out. I was all set on getting a 2.6 tire for my 
> Susie at first, then realized I'll be riding it on pavement a whole lot 
> more that off so I settled on a Vittoria Mezcal 2.25 as more than good 
> enough for now. Those tires run if anything to spec or larger. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah

The pictures of the stem shelf were perfect.  Sorry to hear the bolt was 
too short.

The *direct cause *of the of the circular divot is Nitto drilled the hole 
for the Stem Bolt *TOO LOW* in the stem clamp . The lower stem bolt/hex nut 
resulted in the hex nut not being close to the shelf for it's flat to have 
a large surface area to resist the turning force of the bolt. The hex nut 
flat rotated through the shelf as you tightened the bolt, producing the 
small circular divot, resulting in the 'stripped' feeling in you stated in 
your original post.

The stem was not manufactured to the correct tolerances for the stem bolt 
hole to stem clap shelf distance.  It's useable with a correctly tightened 
nut.  However, I would recommend perusing a replacement stem via Soma/Nitto 
due to the manufacturing problem.  Hopefully, Nitto takes this as a 
'learning opportunity' and adjusts their process.

The gouging on the inside of the stem and bar clamp area is troubling.  
Most likely it was due to the bars rotating in the stem clamp due to 
insufficient tightening torque resulting from the stem bolt hole problem 
above.  It is possible Nitto had the gouged in the interior surface of the 
stem clamp during manufacture or left foreign material side the stem 
clamp.  

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ


On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:25:17 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> John asked for a photo when I swapped the bolts. I tried that 
> tonight...bolt is too short. Sigh. But he asked for photos that show the 
> shelf that the nut is supposed to rest against. (I think.)
>
> Here are photos of the area in question. I hope you can see what you were 
> looking for because I’m never taking that nut off again. I’m worried I’m 
> going to wear it out and it will let me know on my way down Killer Hill.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 10:32 PM, CB > 
> wrote:
>
> Aside from BBDD's stem issue, a number have noted that the sleeved bars 
> sometimes creak. I would expect that the sleeve is inflexible when clamped 
> properly in the stem. The bars flex quite a bit, and the flexing may deform 
> the inner bar a tiny bit at the ends of the sleeve and cause the creak.
>
> A similar effect might be expected between the stem clamp and bars for 
> non-sleeved bars, but in that case tightening the clamp would reduce the 
> deformation.
> -- 
> Carl
>
> On June 23, 2020 6:04:56 PM PDT, Joe Bernard  > wrote:
>>
>> The stem worked fine on her steel bar, I don't know if it has that burr mark 
>> on it and I think it's long gone now. I don't imagine even my slightly 
>> obsessive bike detective skills are going to ever solve how the dang thing 
>> got in there, but I'd sure like to grab a piece of sandpaper and knock it 
>> down! 
>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Doug Hansford]

Dang, the bolt is too short. I thought I was the only one who just when I 
think I have the right parts, it doesn't work! Gash in the stem aside, that 
steel looks nice and strong. Hopefully you'll get it working just right 
soon. I'm a fan of nice clean chromoly parts on a bicycle and silver 
cranks, stems, and bars look classy on your bike.
Doug

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:25:17 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> John asked for a photo when I swapped the bolts. I tried that 
> tonight...bolt is too short. Sigh. But he asked for photos that show the 
> shelf that the nut is supposed to rest against. (I think.)
>
> Here are photos of the area in question. I hope you can see what you were 
> looking for because I’m never taking that nut off again. I’m worried I’m 
> going to wear it out and it will let me know on my way down Killer Hill.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 10:32 PM, CB > 
> wrote:
>
> Aside from BBDD's stem issue, a number have noted that the sleeved bars 
> sometimes creak. I would expect that the sleeve is inflexible when clamped 
> properly in the stem. The bars flex quite a bit, and the flexing may deform 
> the inner bar a tiny bit at the ends of the sleeve and cause the creak.
>
> A similar effect might be expected between the stem clamp and bars for 
> non-sleeved bars, but in that case tightening the clamp would reduce the 
> deformation.
> -- 
> Carl
>
> On June 23, 2020 6:04:56 PM PDT, Joe Bernard  > wrote:
>>
>> The stem worked fine on her steel bar, I don't know if it has that burr mark 
>> on it and I think it's long gone now. I don't imagine even my slightly 
>> obsessive bike detective skills are going to ever solve how the dang thing 
>> got in there, but I'd sure like to grab a piece of sandpaper and knock it 
>> down! 
>>
>> -- 
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: What shade of orange?

[ascpgh]

Patrick,  you become the most popular rider when your bike is orange! 

Everyone (of a certain age) who knows bikes knows Molteni orange, it is 
evocative. Here's an article that sort of relays the events and the sense 
of respect that the color earned. 
https://www.prendas.co.uk/blogs/news/molteni-arcore-cycling-team

My orange Rambouillet hasn't that sort of heritage and is limited to what 
it is (not a racing bike) and when it was made (2000-when it was hard to 
find tires>25mm). A slim basis for what I have experienced in response when 
riding it. My wife commented during our Ride the Five Boros event in NYC of 
how sour the faces of all the CFRP riding, team kitted folks around us were 
when bystanders or other riders commented on my bike, how well it fit me or 
even recognized and called it out as a "Rivendell Rambouillet". They and 
their bikes, of whatever cost, were undistinguishable ubiquity in the sea 
of bikes and riders. My orange lugged steel bike with its cream colored 
headtube and hammered Honjos was drawing the attention. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 2:55:28 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I can tell that this is a popular topic! I guessed it would be, which is 
> why I posted the question here instead of on the iBoblist.
>
> Thanks all. I will peruse the samples, select the few favorites, and 
> forward to Chauncey with instructions to come as close to any of the short 
> list as can be done.
>
> So far, Molteni Orange is the favorite. Weth, the orange on your wife's 
> bike is beautiful, but it's a wee bit too brilliant for my own taste in 
> what I imagine an orange bike should be. Joe: If I am seeing the orange 
> that you recommend, it's a wee bit too dark compared to the ideal in my 
> imagination.
>
> My bias probably results, now that I think of it, from having a 
> long-buried image of Molteni Orange in my imagination.
>
> Garth, thanks for the code.
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:23 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> The photo shows the old Libertas 531 frame that Chauncey just took for 
>> refurbishment: add modern tt brake housing stops, dt housing stops for bar 
>> end shifters, and over-the-bb f and r derailleur cable guides. Odd, the 
>> rear is already spaced at 130 -- this is a bike from the 1970s, so someone 
>> altered it in the meanwhile.
>>
>> I've decided I need an orange bike, So, to the question: What shade of 
>> orange do y'all recommend? The orange on the panels looks rather muted, 
>> don't you think?
>>
>> This looks deeper, but between my bad color vision and even a HD monitor, 
>> who knows; what do you think?
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> This looks similar: somehow "deeper" than the original orange on the 
>> panels:
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> Chauncey delivered the Pseudo Riv just now; still need to hook up shifter 
>> (probably old trigger shifter under right brake lever, which means I'll 
>> have to untape that side of the bar; hate taping bars). And I have to mount 
>> a tire on the rear wheel, then adjust the shifting for the AM hub. Will 
>> post photos then.
>>
>> Also to come, photos of the 2003 Curt custom road (fixed gear modifed by 
>> Dave and Chauncey) which I am selling.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[Garth]

  Yeah David I'm with you on a not so wide tire as they have their own 
quirks as you've found out. I was all set on getting a 2.6 tire for my 
Susie at first, then realized I'll be riding it on pavement a whole lot 
more that off so I settled on a Vittoria Mezcal 2.25 as more than good 
enough for now. Those tires run if anything to spec or larger. 


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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[David Wadstrup]

Good morning.

Thanks, Joe.  I think that's what it's going to come to.  I'd bet it'd be 
ok. I just know know whether it'll move the chainline out far enough, and 
whether it would impact shifting.  Moving the crank out 2.5 will likely 
only buy me about 1.7 or so at the chain/tire point of contact. And I'm 
betting shifting would be impacted.

Thanks, Ed.  I really appreciate you taking the time to look into Shimano's 
specs. Thank you!  The set up you describe is exactly how I have it set up 
now.  I've got one 2.5mm spacer on the drive side and none on the other. 
 I'm wondering... what would putting a second 2.5 spacer on the drive side 
do?  Would it solve the problem or create more problems?  My hunch is it 
would create more problems.

Thanks, Garth.  Swapping a rear cog out for an inboard spacer is a solution 
I read about last night.  I am like you, and don't have a great need for 
that tiny little cog.  But, I'm reluctant to take this course of action. 
 Like most people here, I strive for a degree of simplicity and an 
avoidance of over complication in my bikes.  But with this particular build 
I've decided to embrace whole hog Shimano's current 12 speed, super 
complicated technology.  I figured it'd be interesting, at least.  Because 
of this, I wouldn't be super excited about modifying their parts and 
loosing a cog to make something work that doesn't work.  I think I'd 
rather(though very reluctantly) just choose a narrower rear tire.  But I 
sincerely do appreciate the suggestion and hope to hear more.

I can't thank you all enough!


>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Help! Chain/tire rub problem with my Susie build

[Garth]

David, Of course I don't know your specific cassette or ring combo or 
anything about what gears you ride.

That said, As an option to widening your front chainrings, which only 
increases the chain angle and friction, you can lessen your cassette cog 
number by one. If like me, you have no use for a 11 or 12 tooth small cog, 
take it off, measure it's width, and place a spacer of that width not where 
it used to be, but in the last position, nearest the spokes where your 
largest cog would be. Torque down the cassette as usual. A serrated cog is 
not necessary, proper torque is. Off the top of my head I believe I used a 
3.5mm spacer. Familiarize yourself with how many turns it takes a lockring 
to bottom out without a cassette, it's depth. That helps to ensure the 
cassette is snug without bottoming out the lockring. 





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