Re: [RBW] To My Platypus People!

[Joe Bernard]

I think you sold a Billie to every Platypus owner this week. Riv was 
probably like WHERE DID ALL THESE ORDERS COME FROM? 

Tosco is a compromise between the height I need from Boscos and that 
excellent flare on your B bar. I have some room with my new Face Plater to 
lift the bars a bit, which should get Tosco high enough. Your bar is I 
think too low for me.*

*If that makes sense. I've read and edited that paragraph 5 times and it's 
still a convoluted mess! 浪

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 9:39:45 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

> There were lots of B bars in stock a few days ago, AFTER I got my bar, so 
> I can’t be blamed for taking the last one!
>
> How did you arrive at Tosco? They flare LESS than the Billie…
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 21, 2021, at 9:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Well doggone it I think I need a new bar, too! You're right about how 
> awesome the Boscos are - I need and love most of that rise - but the 
> not-much-flare is an issue for me..I'm super jealous of all that Billie 
> flare! BUT I think my arthritic wrists will need more rise AND you bought 
> the last Billie. Solution: Tosco! Off to the Rivbike site I go...
>
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:42:03 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
>
>> Hi Friends,
>>
>> It has been unbelievably windy here in Vegas. My Billie Bars arrived 
>> yesterday afternoon and I got them installed right away (which I documented 
>> in a minimally helpful, mostly satirical video on Instagram). But, it was 
>> too windy to ride. The weather still wasn’t cooperating today, but the 
>> winds died down enough to let me out for a quick 10 miles with my new 
>> Billie Bars. I wish I had more time and miles with them, but in the 
>> interest of people trying to choose bars and stem for their new Platys in a 
>> hurry, I’ll give you my unvarnished opinion.
>>
>> The 9 cm stem is going to be just fine, I think. There is enough of a 
>> reach that I don’t feel cramped in the cockpit (oh, how I hate the term for 
>> bikes). The Bosco Bars make a statement, like antlers, like a crown. The 
>> drama queen of Rivendell’s bar line-up, they rise dramatically and sweep 
>> way back, like a woman lifting her petticoats. That was the first 
>> appreciable difference I noted between the bars - the Billie is flatter and 
>> has less reach-back. Understated compared to the dramatic Bosco. But the 
>> Billie is regal in its own way, too - those curves on either side of the 
>> clamp are lovely. To use imagery from nature:  the Boscos are a buck with 
>> an impressive rack, the Billies are a bird taking flight. 
>>
>> So, what about the width of those flared 58 cm Billie Bars? Sisters, I 
>> know we were worried. We said, “They made those wide bars for full-grown, 
>> broad-shouldered men and what about us?” But I have good news - I think 
>> you’ll like that flare! It’s not too wide, and I think it is more ergonomic 
>> the way your wrists meet those bar ends. 
>>
>> Climbing. I love Boscos, but I really do think I had too short of a stem 
>> for them. I think 11cm would be the ticket and I have a 9. I hated climbing 
>> with my Boscos because they came back too far and it was awkward. I rarely 
>> stood on my pedals because the bar ends came back to my hips. Ever ridden 
>> your bike uphill with your hands behind your hips?! Also, I am a bar 
>> puller. I pull hard on handlebars when I am really exerting effort to climb 
>> a hill or to go fast and it was too cramped with the Boscos and a 9 cm 
>> stem. I would get a sharp pain in my right wrist that would actually make 
>> me gasp. But not tonight. I can yank those bars all I want - when I’m 
>> starting from a dead stop, or climbing a hill or racing around on the flats 
>> below the mountain and NO wrist pain.
>>
>> I did raise my stem another 1/2 inch to make up for the flattish posture 
>> of the Billies. It was kind of nostalgic because Albatross was the bar on 
>> my first Riv, my Betty Foy. I’m sure I’ll make further adjustments, but 
>> those will come with miles. 
>>
>> Hope that helps!
>> Leah
>>
>> On May 19, 2021, at 8:52 PM, Bones  wrote:
>>
>> Leah, I think the rise is probably more important here. The Boscos rise a 
>> lot more than the Billies, and are only a little bit longer from the clamp. 
>> If you wanted your hands in roughly the same place, you'd probably need the 
>> stem maxed out... which is why the faceplater is a good idea. Because the 
>> head tube angles toward you, the more you raise the bars up, the closer to 
>> you they get. Judging from the pictures you posted earlier in this thread, 
>> I'm not sure you could get the Billies that high. However, they still may 
>> be comfortable if they are lower but closer. I would just try them out on 
>> your current stem first. You'll know right away if they are too low, too 
>> close, or just not going to work at all. I didn't consider Billies for my 
>> wife's bike because A) I didn't think I could get 

Re: [RBW] To My Platypus People!

[Leah Peterson]

There were lots of B bars in stock a few days ago, AFTER I got my bar, so I 
can’t be blamed for taking the last one!

How did you arrive at Tosco? They flare LESS than the Billie…

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2021, at 9:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Well doggone it I think I need a new bar, too! You're right about how 
> awesome the Boscos are - I need and love most of that rise - but the 
> not-much-flare is an issue for me..I'm super jealous of all that Billie 
> flare! BUT I think my arthritic wrists will need more rise AND you bought the 
> last Billie. Solution: Tosco! Off to the Rivbike site I go...
> 
> Joe Bernard
> 
>> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:42:03 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
>> Hi Friends,
>> 
>> It has been unbelievably windy here in Vegas. My Billie Bars arrived 
>> yesterday afternoon and I got them installed right away (which I documented 
>> in a minimally helpful, mostly satirical video on Instagram). But, it was 
>> too windy to ride. The weather still wasn’t cooperating today, but the winds 
>> died down enough to let me out for a quick 10 miles with my new Billie Bars. 
>> I wish I had more time and miles with them, but in the interest of people 
>> trying to choose bars and stem for their new Platys in a hurry, I’ll give 
>> you my unvarnished opinion.
>> 
>> The 9 cm stem is going to be just fine, I think. There is enough of a reach 
>> that I don’t feel cramped in the cockpit (oh, how I hate the term for 
>> bikes). The Bosco Bars make a statement, like antlers, like a crown. The 
>> drama queen of Rivendell’s bar line-up, they rise dramatically and sweep way 
>> back, like a woman lifting her petticoats. That was the first appreciable 
>> difference I noted between the bars - the Billie is flatter and has less 
>> reach-back. Understated compared to the dramatic Bosco. But the Billie is 
>> regal in its own way, too - those curves on either side of the clamp are 
>> lovely. To use imagery from nature:  the Boscos are a buck with an 
>> impressive rack, the Billies are a bird taking flight. 
>> 
>> So, what about the width of those flared 58 cm Billie Bars? Sisters, I know 
>> we were worried. We said, “They made those wide bars for full-grown, 
>> broad-shouldered men and what about us?” But I have good news - I think 
>> you’ll like that flare! It’s not too wide, and I think it is more ergonomic 
>> the way your wrists meet those bar ends. 
>> 
>> Climbing. I love Boscos, but I really do think I had too short of a stem for 
>> them. I think 11cm would be the ticket and I have a 9. I hated climbing with 
>> my Boscos because they came back too far and it was awkward. I rarely stood 
>> on my pedals because the bar ends came back to my hips. Ever ridden your 
>> bike uphill with your hands behind your hips?! Also, I am a bar puller. I 
>> pull hard on handlebars when I am really exerting effort to climb a hill or 
>> to go fast and it was too cramped with the Boscos and a 9 cm stem. I would 
>> get a sharp pain in my right wrist that would actually make me gasp. But not 
>> tonight. I can yank those bars all I want - when I’m starting from a dead 
>> stop, or climbing a hill or racing around on the flats below the mountain 
>> and NO wrist pain.
>> 
>> I did raise my stem another 1/2 inch to make up for the flattish posture of 
>> the Billies. It was kind of nostalgic because Albatross was the bar on my 
>> first Riv, my Betty Foy. I’m sure I’ll make further adjustments, but those 
>> will come with miles. 
>> 
>> Hope that helps!
>> Leah
>> 
 On May 19, 2021, at 8:52 PM, Bones  wrote:
 
>>> Leah, I think the rise is probably more important here. The Boscos rise a 
>>> lot more than the Billies, and are only a little bit longer from the clamp. 
>>> If you wanted your hands in roughly the same place, you'd probably need the 
>>> stem maxed out... which is why the faceplater is a good idea. Because the 
>>> head tube angles toward you, the more you raise the bars up, the closer to 
>>> you they get. Judging from the pictures you posted earlier in this thread, 
>>> I'm not sure you could get the Billies that high. However, they still may 
>>> be comfortable if they are lower but closer. I would just try them out on 
>>> your current stem first. You'll know right away if they are too low, too 
>>> close, or just not going to work at all. I didn't consider Billies for my 
>>> wife's bike because A) I didn't think I could get them to a comfortable 
>>> height and B) she is medium to small and I did not think she would be 
>>> comfortable with the extra width. All that said, the Billies are great 
>>> bars. Lots of real estate, nearly as sharp looking as the albatross, and I 
>>> do dig the extra width.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Bones
>>> 
 On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 8:44:18 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
 Leah - I don't think the 90 will be too short for you, although that's 
 based on nothing but a hunch really. The Platy's are long 

Re: [RBW] To My Platypus People!

[Joe Bernard]

Well doggone it I think I need a new bar, too! You're right about how 
awesome the Boscos are - I need and love most of that rise - but the 
not-much-flare is an issue for me..I'm super jealous of all that Billie 
flare! BUT I think my arthritic wrists will need more rise AND you bought 
the last Billie. Solution: Tosco! Off to the Rivbike site I go...

Joe Bernard

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:42:03 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

> Hi Friends,
>
> It has been unbelievably windy here in Vegas. My Billie Bars arrived 
> yesterday afternoon and I got them installed right away (which I documented 
> in a minimally helpful, mostly satirical video on Instagram). But, it was 
> too windy to ride. The weather still wasn’t cooperating today, but the 
> winds died down enough to let me out for a quick 10 miles with my new 
> Billie Bars. I wish I had more time and miles with them, but in the 
> interest of people trying to choose bars and stem for their new Platys in a 
> hurry, I’ll give you my unvarnished opinion.
>
> The 9 cm stem is going to be just fine, I think. There is enough of a 
> reach that I don’t feel cramped in the cockpit (oh, how I hate the term for 
> bikes). The Bosco Bars make a statement, like antlers, like a crown. The 
> drama queen of Rivendell’s bar line-up, they rise dramatically and sweep 
> way back, like a woman lifting her petticoats. That was the first 
> appreciable difference I noted between the bars - the Billie is flatter and 
> has less reach-back. Understated compared to the dramatic Bosco. But the 
> Billie is regal in its own way, too - those curves on either side of the 
> clamp are lovely. To use imagery from nature:  the Boscos are a buck with 
> an impressive rack, the Billies are a bird taking flight. 
>
> So, what about the width of those flared 58 cm Billie Bars? Sisters, I 
> know we were worried. We said, “They made those wide bars for full-grown, 
> broad-shouldered men and what about us?” But I have good news - I think 
> you’ll like that flare! It’s not too wide, and I think it is more ergonomic 
> the way your wrists meet those bar ends. 
>
> Climbing. I love Boscos, but I really do think I had too short of a stem 
> for them. I think 11cm would be the ticket and I have a 9. I hated climbing 
> with my Boscos because they came back too far and it was awkward. I rarely 
> stood on my pedals because the bar ends came back to my hips. Ever ridden 
> your bike uphill with your hands behind your hips?! Also, I am a bar 
> puller. I pull hard on handlebars when I am really exerting effort to climb 
> a hill or to go fast and it was too cramped with the Boscos and a 9 cm 
> stem. I would get a sharp pain in my right wrist that would actually make 
> me gasp. But not tonight. I can yank those bars all I want - when I’m 
> starting from a dead stop, or climbing a hill or racing around on the flats 
> below the mountain and NO wrist pain.
>
> I did raise my stem another 1/2 inch to make up for the flattish posture 
> of the Billies. It was kind of nostalgic because Albatross was the bar on 
> my first Riv, my Betty Foy. I’m sure I’ll make further adjustments, but 
> those will come with miles. 
>
> Hope that helps!
> Leah
>
> On May 19, 2021, at 8:52 PM, Bones  wrote:
>
> Leah, I think the rise is probably more important here. The Boscos rise a 
> lot more than the Billies, and are only a little bit longer from the clamp. 
> If you wanted your hands in roughly the same place, you'd probably need the 
> stem maxed out... which is why the faceplater is a good idea. Because the 
> head tube angles toward you, the more you raise the bars up, the closer to 
> you they get. Judging from the pictures you posted earlier in this thread, 
> I'm not sure you could get the Billies that high. However, they still may 
> be comfortable if they are lower but closer. I would just try them out on 
> your current stem first. You'll know right away if they are too low, too 
> close, or just not going to work at all. I didn't consider Billies for my 
> wife's bike because A) I didn't think I could get them to a comfortable 
> height and B) she is medium to small and I did not think she would be 
> comfortable with the extra width. All that said, the Billies are great 
> bars. Lots of real estate, nearly as sharp looking as the albatross, and I 
> do dig the extra width.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Bones
>
> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 8:44:18 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Leah - I don't think the 90 will be too short for you, although that's 
>> based on nothing but a hunch really. The Platy's are long bikes, and my 
>> comment about needing a real long stem for Billie bars is geared more 
>> towards someone who is moving to the Billie from drop bars and is used to 
>> that really long reach they have.  In your case, coming from Boscos, you'll 
>> get more than a full fist's worth of forward grip area on the same stem, 
>> and I imagine that'll be enough.  If you find the Bosco's 

Re: [RBW] To My Platypus People!

[Leah Peterson]

Hi Friends,

It has been unbelievably windy here in Vegas. My Billie Bars arrived yesterday 
afternoon and I got them installed right away (which I documented in a 
minimally helpful, mostly satirical video on Instagram). But, it was too windy 
to ride. The weather still wasn’t cooperating today, but the winds died down 
enough to let me out for a quick 10 miles with my new Billie Bars. I wish I had 
more time and miles with them, but in the interest of people trying to choose 
bars and stem for their new Platys in a hurry, I’ll give you my unvarnished 
opinion.

The 9 cm stem is going to be just fine, I think. There is enough of a reach 
that I don’t feel cramped in the cockpit (oh, how I hate the term for bikes). 
The Bosco Bars make a statement, like antlers, like a crown. The drama queen of 
Rivendell’s bar line-up, they rise dramatically and sweep way back, like a 
woman lifting her petticoats. That was the first appreciable difference I noted 
between the bars - the Billie is flatter and has less reach-back. Understated 
compared to the dramatic Bosco. But the Billie is regal in its own way, too - 
those curves on either side of the clamp are lovely. To use imagery from 
nature:  the Boscos are a buck with an impressive rack, the Billies are a bird 
taking flight. 

So, what about the width of those flared 58 cm Billie Bars? Sisters, I know we 
were worried. We said, “They made those wide bars for full-grown, 
broad-shouldered men and what about us?” But I have good news - I think you’ll 
like that flare! It’s not too wide, and I think it is more ergonomic the way 
your wrists meet those bar ends. 

Climbing. I love Boscos, but I really do think I had too short of a stem for 
them. I think 11cm would be the ticket and I have a 9. I hated climbing with my 
Boscos because they came back too far and it was awkward. I rarely stood on my 
pedals because the bar ends came back to my hips. Ever ridden your bike uphill 
with your hands behind your hips?! Also, I am a bar puller. I pull hard on 
handlebars when I am really exerting effort to climb a hill or to go fast and 
it was too cramped with the Boscos and a 9 cm stem. I would get a sharp pain in 
my right wrist that would actually make me gasp. But not tonight. I can yank 
those bars all I want - when I’m starting from a dead stop, or climbing a hill 
or racing around on the flats below the mountain and NO wrist pain.

I did raise my stem another 1/2 inch to make up for the flattish posture of the 
Billies. It was kind of nostalgic because Albatross was the bar on my first 
Riv, my Betty Foy. I’m sure I’ll make further adjustments, but those will come 
with miles. 

Hope that helps!
Leah

> On May 19, 2021, at 8:52 PM, Bones  wrote:
> 
> Leah, I think the rise is probably more important here. The Boscos rise a lot 
> more than the Billies, and are only a little bit longer from the clamp. If 
> you wanted your hands in roughly the same place, you'd probably need the stem 
> maxed out... which is why the faceplater is a good idea. Because the head 
> tube angles toward you, the more you raise the bars up, the closer to you 
> they get. Judging from the pictures you posted earlier in this thread, I'm 
> not sure you could get the Billies that high. However, they still may be 
> comfortable if they are lower but closer. I would just try them out on your 
> current stem first. You'll know right away if they are too low, too close, or 
> just not going to work at all. I didn't consider Billies for my wife's bike 
> because A) I didn't think I could get them to a comfortable height and B) she 
> is medium to small and I did not think she would be comfortable with the 
> extra width. All that said, the Billies are great bars. Lots of real estate, 
> nearly as sharp looking as the albatross, and I do dig the extra width.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Bones
> 
> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 8:44:18 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
> Leah - I don't think the 90 will be too short for you, although that's based 
> on nothing but a hunch really. The Platy's are long bikes, and my comment 
> about needing a real long stem for Billie bars is geared more towards someone 
> who is moving to the Billie from drop bars and is used to that really long 
> reach they have.  In your case, coming from Boscos, you'll get more than a 
> full fist's worth of forward grip area on the same stem, and I imagine 
> that'll be enough.  If you find the Bosco's reach to be short even when 
> you're just cruising along, then yeah a longer stem is probably due.  
> 
> I am ISO that long Faceplater but I swear this doesn't affect my feedback :) 
> 
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 5:34 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  > wrote:
> Jason, do you think my 90 stem is going to bring the Billie bars too close to 
> me? I can't find an 11cm Tallux (which I think would work) but there's a used 
> 135 mm Faceplater (which is really 124mm accounting for rise) I might be able 
> to get my hands on. Would Billies with the 

[RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[David Person]

This article may be helpful. From Blue Moon Camera’s blog in Portland, OR.  

https://bluemooncameracodex.com/technical-reviews/2018/5/17/beginner-35mm-slrs




On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 1:30:46 PM UTC-7 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:

> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:34:40 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, all; I am entirely camera-ignorant, since I gave up 
>> photography about age 11 1/2 after starting to experiment with my 
>> mother's Brownie at about age 11 1/4. (You can verify this by the 
>> quality of my photos onlist.) 
>>
>> The Olympus OM-1, Canon AE-1, and Pentax K1000 seem to be favorites. 
>> All these have built-in light meters, no? And they seem to come up on 
>> Amazon for =/< $200. 
>>
>> Upshot: I can't go wrong with any of these 3? 
>>
>
> Patrick,
>
> All the cameras you've listed and others have suggested are all good 
> choices. However, there are other equally important considerations, because 
> you can't take images with just a camera body alone. You also need lenses, 
> and other accessories (e.g., TTL flash). Particularly with lenses, you may 
> see one or two particular types that are more prevalent, and cheaper, so 
> that would be the other considerations. If you get hooked, there are also 
> particular lenses with a distinctive "look"; I mean, there are enthusiasts 
> who will pay quite a nice premium for lenses with good "bokeh".
>
> A 50mm/f1.4 is a nice start, but as the photographer progress in skill and 
> style, you may need a 105mm/f2.5, or 35mm/f2. Or perhaps a macro for 
> extreme closeups, and a PC lens for the folks who like architecture. Again, 
> you want to make sure you can find the lens you want at good prices.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Regrets

[Ian A]

For me: 1) An Apollo Gran Tour built with Tange 2 that fit me like a glove. 
I hadn't considered converting to 650b at the time and passed it on after I 
decided 28mm tires were too narrow. It was a bike I used for everything 
when I livedi n Vancouver and am always looking for another in the same 
size and colour. Good times.

2) A Kona Explosif. The owner wanted it out of the garage and it was very 
cheap. Full XT and a segmented rigid fork. It rode very nicely. A work 
aquaintance who was supporting a large family had mentioned he wanted to 
improve his fitness and buy a bicycle, so I sold it to him for what I paid 
for it hoping a nice bike would help him achieve his fitness goal. He did 
not appreciate what a wonderful bike it was and basically never used it. 
Never thanked me for helping him was even quite rude to me when I asked him 
if he was making use of it. 

3) Giving away my old Sekine. No idea what tubeset it had, but I regularly 
used to pass people on far nicer bikes on long climbs. It had a bit of 
magic to it and strangely enough, was a nerd magnet. Many friendly chats 
with strangers due to that bicycle. The new owner used it somewhat, but 
never loved it like I did!

But, despite the few regrets I am happy with the current stable. My trusty 
Marinoni Turismo which took me to the tip of South America, a much abused 
1980's Rocky Mountain grocery getter/winter bike and my two rSogns which 
get used for distance riding. I feel like the two rSogns could be slightly 
better optimized for fit, but when I finally nail that aspect they'll be 
close to ideal bicycles.

IanA Alberta Canada


On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 3:28:21 PM UTC-6 Evan E. wrote:

> Univega Gran Rally circa 1986. I think the official color name was coral 
> but it was shimmering, pearlescent pink. Chromoly frame, nice and lively, 
> with diamond cutouts on the lugs. A tad small, so I sold it. But once in a 
> while, when I hear "When You Were Young" on the radio, it all comes back. 
> :)  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] FS 1985 Trek 660

[Hugh Smitham]

You got that right Jon. Yes somebody a little bit younger and more flexible
will love it.

Hugh

On Fri, May 21, 2021, 3:48 PM Jon Dukeman  wrote:

> Boy They don't make them like that anymore.
> Love that red. Someone will be very happy. Wish it was me
> Great price too
> Jon
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:18 PM Hugh Smitham  wrote:
>
>> I need to thin the herd. My bike riding has been seriously curtailed over
>> the last couple years.
>>
>> Here's the Craigslist listing.
>>
>>
>> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/bik/d/sunland-trek-660/7325148839.html
>>
>> For group members I will entertain shipping within the lower 48 states at
>> the buyers expense. I will pack it up and we can use bike flights.
>>
>> If interested please dm me with the group list you saw this on.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] FS 1985 Trek 660

[Jon Dukeman]

Boy They don't make them like that anymore.
Love that red. Someone will be very happy. Wish it was me
Great price too
Jon

On Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:18 PM Hugh Smitham  wrote:

> I need to thin the herd. My bike riding has been seriously curtailed over
> the last couple years.
>
> Here's the Craigslist listing.
>
>
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/bik/d/sunland-trek-660/7325148839.html
>
> For group members I will entertain shipping within the lower 48 states at
> the buyers expense. I will pack it up and we can use bike flights.
>
> If interested please dm me with the group list you saw this on.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Hugh
>
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> .
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[RBW] FS 1985 Trek 660

[Hugh Smitham]

I need to thin the herd. My bike riding has been seriously curtailed over 
the last couple years.

Here's the Craigslist listing.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/bik/d/sunland-trek-660/7325148839.html

For group members I will entertain shipping within the lower 48 states at 
the buyers expense. I will pack it up and we can use bike flights. 

If interested please dm me with the group list you saw this on.

Best Regards,

Hugh

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[RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:34:40 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, all; I am entirely camera-ignorant, since I gave up 
> photography about age 11 1/2 after starting to experiment with my 
> mother's Brownie at about age 11 1/4. (You can verify this by the 
> quality of my photos onlist.) 
>
> The Olympus OM-1, Canon AE-1, and Pentax K1000 seem to be favorites. 
> All these have built-in light meters, no? And they seem to come up on 
> Amazon for =/< $200. 
>
> Upshot: I can't go wrong with any of these 3? 
>

Patrick,

All the cameras you've listed and others have suggested are all good 
choices. However, there are other equally important considerations, because 
you can't take images with just a camera body alone. You also need lenses, 
and other accessories (e.g., TTL flash). Particularly with lenses, you may 
see one or two particular types that are more prevalent, and cheaper, so 
that would be the other considerations. If you get hooked, there are also 
particular lenses with a distinctive "look"; I mean, there are enthusiasts 
who will pay quite a nice premium for lenses with good "bokeh".

A 50mm/f1.4 is a nice start, but as the photographer progress in skill and 
style, you may need a 105mm/f2.5, or 35mm/f2. Or perhaps a macro for 
extreme closeups, and a PC lens for the folks who like architecture. Again, 
you want to make sure you can find the lens you want at good prices.

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[RBW] Re: Shimano discontinuing rim-brake hubs?

[George Schick]

Chris - while there are other rim brake manufacturers (Paul, Tektro, etc.) 
who are still making rim brakes, I think one of the concerns - and it has 
been batted back and forth on this blog as well as by Grant on his own Blug 
- is that if rim brakes disappear entirely (which I doubt) and cyclists are 
forced to use disc brakes, they won't be able to do so without a front fork 
change.  AND, as Grant has pointed out, not all forks are built 
substantially enough to work safely with disc brakes.  One of the issues 
discussed had to do with which side of the bike's fork the disc caliper is 
located.

Just this past week a cyclist in my area had a front wheel "fall off" while 
riding on a path and he sustained serious head, face, and other injuries. 
 I'm waiting to find out the details, but I wouldn't be surprised if the 
bike had a left-side disc brake mount and he hadn't tightened the QR 
sufficiently, and it worked its way loose during hard braking. 


On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:35:44 PM UTC-5 Christopher Cote wrote:

> There is no practical reason at all that you couldn't run a disc-brake hub 
> with a rim-brake rim. Maybe you can make a valid objection for aesthetic 
> reasons, but it's hardly a reason for concern, IMHO. 
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 11:01:36 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Per Grant's blog:
>>
>> *Shimano is going to stop making  middle-to-upper end non-disc brake hubs 
>> soon, road and mountain. *
>>
>> Thank God there is always Phil Wood. And no doubt vast quantities of old 
>> Shimano rim-brake hubs buried in garages worldwide.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Soma Shikoro 700c x 38mm actual size?

[Erik]

I can confirm that my 700c x 38mm Shikoro tires are 35mm on Velocity A23 
rims.   I only have about 100 miles on them at this point, however.  

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 10:55:27 AM UTC-7 Jeffery S wrote:

>
> Is anyone running these?
>
> This review (
> https://www.cxmagazine.com/soma-fab-shikoro-road-gravel-tire-38c-panaracer) 
> says they run a few mm under size on 17.5 ID rims, but I'm wondering if 
> they expand with more miles on them.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[Shawn Granton]

Hey all-

There have been some good suggestions on this thread. Let me throw in one 
more and veer off from this (mostly) SLR discussion:

I'd recommend a nice fixed-lens rangefinder, most likely one from Japan 
made in the 60s and 70s. You don't get the through-the-lens viewing of an 
SLR nor the ability to change lenses. But the "lack of different lenses" 
can be an advantage, as you learn by using what you got and can't go down 
the "well, if I just had a 28mm lens" road. Rangefinder focusing is quick 
and intuitive, and pretty accurate if the rangefinder has been adjusted 
correctly.

These fixed-lens rangefinders can be broken down into two broad categories, 
and yes I am generalizing:

   - Bigger ones that usually had a choice between full manual exposure and 
   some automatic exposure options. These tend to be from the 60s
   - Smaller ones from the 70s. Many of them were automatic exposure only, 
   though some did come with manual exposure override

The first camera I bought when I got back into film last year was a Minolta 
Hi-Matic 7s. Introduced in 1966, it was of the bigger variety with choice 
of automatic or manual exposure. The Rokkor PF 45mm f/1.8 lens gives me 
great pictures. I got mine for under $50 plus shipping. A quick scan of 
eBay shows that it's still possible to snag one at that price, though if 
you want one that's guaranteed to work, it'd be better to get one from one 
of the sources mentioned previously in this thread.

Best,
Shawn
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49469885803_6a3caa2ea0_b.jpg

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[RBW] Re: Soma Shikoro 700c x 38mm actual size?

[Bones]

I've had them on my Roadini for several months. TB14 rims (17.5 ID). They 
measure 36mm. Riv's page for this item notes that they all tend to measure 
about 2mm smaller than listed. I like these tires a lot. They roll nice and 
smooth and I don't have to worry about flats.

Bones

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-4 Jeffery S wrote:

>
> Is anyone running these?
>
> This review (
> https://www.cxmagazine.com/soma-fab-shikoro-road-gravel-tire-38c-panaracer) 
> says they run a few mm under size on 17.5 ID rims, but I'm wondering if 
> they expand with more miles on them.
>

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[RBW] Re: Regrets

[Damien]

Hey Joe, I had a 50cm Orange Roadini...but if I'm being honest, if I had 
any of the colours, I would have regretted selling those equally.

On Friday, 21 May 2021 at 10:32:26 UTC-4 Joe M. wrote:

> Damien, what size and color Roadini do you regret selling?
>
> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 4:42:20 AM UTC-7 alan lavine wrote:
>
>> I totally agree with Patrick's comments, I could have written it myself. 
>>  I'm learning, slowly...
>> You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  
>> What a weird expression that is!
>>
>> Alan
>> NYC
>>
>> On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 8:16:16 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This 64cm Sam Hillborne- https://photos.app.goo.gl/oe7AdWXzUKB8NF8dA
>>> but it's in a good home.
>>> I popped the seatstay top braze off and had the joy of talking with 
>>> Richard Schwinn about fixing it better than new, which he did for free. 
>>> Once I had it back I was busy riding a Quickbeam and a Clem H, and felt 
>>> weird about it having broken for some crazy reason, and sold it for a 
>>> song...
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 3:56:06 PM UTC-4 Damien wrote:
>>>
 In my seemingly endless search to optimize my bike collection, fill 
 gaps, and try new and cool bikes, I recently realized how many bikes I've 
 had in my life and how many questionable decisions I've made. There are a 
 number of choices I've made, for better or worse, to sell bikes in order 
 to 
 make room for other bikes, downsize, or simply because I felt they weren't 
 getting the use they deserved.

 My question to the group is: what bike or bikes do you most regret 
 selling, trading, or giving away?  

 For me, as you may know, I absolutely regret selling my Roadini, and an 
 old Marinoni touring bike that I originally thought was too big for me (I 
 realize now how wrong I was, and am currently in the process of replacing 
 it!).

 Would love to hear what regrets others here have!

 <3
 Damien

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[David Person]

I'm surprised Grant hasn't weighed in.  

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 10:45:14 AM UTC-7 peter...@gmail.com wrote:

> A friend of mine had a K1000. I had a Canon F-1 with one of their 
> aftermarket super bright focusing screens. When I looked through her 
> viewfinder I could barely see a thing. But her photos were still much 
> better than mine. ;-(
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 1:25 PM Christopher Cote  
> wrote:
>
>> While the Pentax K1000 is the go-to beginner's manual film SLR, I had one 
>> for many years and was never really jazzed with the results. I have my 
>> father's Olympus OM-10 now, and it seems to produce much sharper images 
>> than the K1000 ever did. Maybe my K was bad? Anyway, I'd recommend the 
>> OM-10, as long as you get the optional manual shutter speed control module. 
>> Without it, the camera operates in aperture priority (nothing wrong with 
>> that, it's my preferred way to shoot), but the ability to go fully manual 
>> is really nice. The OM-10 is not fully mechanical, the shutter is operated 
>> electro-mechanically and requires a couple of cheap, readily available 
>> button cell batteries that last for years.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 2:11:29 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> My daughter has come to like film photography during her first 
>>> attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR. 
>>>
>>> I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a 
>>> flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea 
>>> what "expensive" means here. 
>>>
>>> She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if 
>>> affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more 
>>> satisfying. 
>>>
>>> I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and 
>>> why? Manual or automatic? 
>>>
>>> I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday. 
>>>
>>> My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite 
>>> some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones. 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> --- 
>>> Patrick Moore 
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum 
>>>
>> -- 
>>
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Peter White
>

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[RBW] Soma Shikoro 700c x 38mm actual size?

[Jeffery S]

Is anyone running these?

This review 
(https://www.cxmagazine.com/soma-fab-shikoro-road-gravel-tire-38c-panaracer) 
says they run a few mm under size on 17.5 ID rims, but I'm wondering if 
they expand with more miles on them.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[Peter White]

A friend of mine had a K1000. I had a Canon F-1 with one of their
aftermarket super bright focusing screens. When I looked through her
viewfinder I could barely see a thing. But her photos were still much
better than mine. ;-(

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 1:25 PM Christopher Cote <
christopherjamesc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> While the Pentax K1000 is the go-to beginner's manual film SLR, I had one
> for many years and was never really jazzed with the results. I have my
> father's Olympus OM-10 now, and it seems to produce much sharper images
> than the K1000 ever did. Maybe my K was bad? Anyway, I'd recommend the
> OM-10, as long as you get the optional manual shutter speed control module.
> Without it, the camera operates in aperture priority (nothing wrong with
> that, it's my preferred way to shoot), but the ability to go fully manual
> is really nice. The OM-10 is not fully mechanical, the shutter is operated
> electro-mechanically and requires a couple of cheap, readily available
> button cell batteries that last for years.
>
> Chris
>
> On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 2:11:29 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
>> attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>>
>> I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
>> flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
>> what "expensive" means here.
>>
>> She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
>> affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
>> satisfying.
>>
>> I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
>> why? Manual or automatic?
>>
>> I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
>>
>> My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
>> some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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> 
> .
>


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[RBW] Re: Shimano discontinuing rim-brake hubs?

[Christopher Cote]

There is no practical reason at all that you couldn't run a disc-brake hub 
with a rim-brake rim. Maybe you can make a valid objection for aesthetic 
reasons, but it's hardly a reason for concern, IMHO. 

Chris


On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 11:01:36 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Per Grant's blog:
>
> *Shimano is going to stop making  middle-to-upper end non-disc brake hubs 
> soon, road and mountain. *
>
> Thank God there is always Phil Wood. And no doubt vast quantities of old 
> Shimano rim-brake hubs buried in garages worldwide.
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>

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[RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[Christopher Cote]

While the Pentax K1000 is the go-to beginner's manual film SLR, I had one 
for many years and was never really jazzed with the results. I have my 
father's Olympus OM-10 now, and it seems to produce much sharper images 
than the K1000 ever did. Maybe my K was bad? Anyway, I'd recommend the 
OM-10, as long as you get the optional manual shutter speed control module. 
Without it, the camera operates in aperture priority (nothing wrong with 
that, it's my preferred way to shoot), but the ability to go fully manual 
is really nice. The OM-10 is not fully mechanical, the shutter is operated 
electro-mechanically and requires a couple of cheap, readily available 
button cell batteries that last for years.

Chris

On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 2:11:29 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
> attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>
> I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
> flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
> what "expensive" means here.
>
> She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
> affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
> satisfying.
>
> I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
> why? Manual or automatic?
>
> I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
>
> My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
> some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>

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Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Welcome to the world of old film cameras!

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On May 21, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> This is essential news about light meters; for this and the Catlabs source, 
> thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 9:18 AM Benjamin L. Kelley  > wrote:
> I've been buying lots of stuff from CatLABS in Jamaica Plain, MA.
> Omer does a great job of testing and inspecting each item he sells, and the 
> prices often beat eBay.
> If you're in the market for film gear, I can highly recommend them.
> https://www.catlabs.info/category/35mm-cameras-and-lenses 
> 
> 
> Also yes, the OM-1, AE-1, and K1000 all have built in light meters, but if 
> you are buying used, you'll need to know that they actually work.(Another 
> plug for CatLABS is that Omer tests all gear before selling and clearly 
> states any defects or features that do not work consistently.)
> Circuity degrades.  My mention of the light meter on my K1000 being off by 
> several stops,  It worked but had degraded in one of the resistors.  So with 
> some testing I came up with a cart of where I needed to set the ISO settings 
> in comparison to the actual film, to get the meter to work correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:04 AM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  > wrote:
> Patrick:
> 
> That’s a little high for a T50. I recently bought one with a Canon 28mm lens 
> for $30 + shipping. Works great. These cameras are very common, so check 
> around for a better price.
> 
> If your daughter just wants to go out and shoot pictures, this is a great 
> choice. Exposure is fully automatic (there’s a built-in exposure system, so 
> no external meter needed), and it advances the film automatically. She’ll 
> just need to compose the shot and focus. It’s very simple to use, but Canon 
> lenses are quite nice and will produce crisp images.
> 
> The T50 is also a bit lighter than many other SLRs.
> 
> As others have pointed out, there are many choices out there. Let me know if 
> you need any help.
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com 
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy  
> 
>> On May 21, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Moore > > wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78: 
>> https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08 
>> 
>> 
>> I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others 
>> think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?
>> 
>> Will I have to buy a light meter separately?
>> 
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>> > > wrote:
>> Patrick:
>> 
>> Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them with 
>> a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD lens 
>> mount.
>> 
>> Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn about 
>> exposure it’s not the right camera. 
>> 
>> If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and aperture, try 
>> the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay with a 50mm 
>> Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which means that, 
>> like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out there.
>> 
>> Hope this helps! Film is fun!
>> 
>> --Eric N
>> 
>> > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
>> > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>> > 
>> > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
>> > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
>> > what "expensive" means here.
>> > 
>> > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
>> > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
>> > satisfying.
>> > 
>> > I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
>> > why? Manual or automatic?
>> > 
>> > I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
>> > 
>> > My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
>> > some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > 
>> > ---
>> > Patrick Moore
>> > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> > 

Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

[Drew Saunders]

That's catlabs.info, not .com, and here are their 35mm 
cameras: https://www.catlabs.info/category/35mm-cameras-and-lenses

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:41:09 AM UTC-7 Drew Saunders wrote:

> One advantage of keh.com or catlabs.com or other real photo dealers vs. 
> individual sellers on Amazon or Ebay is that there's a good chance that the 
> camera has been checked out and confirmed to be working. With most of the 
> suggested cameras, there's a very high chance that the foam seals around 
> the film door are shot, which would cause light leaks. I got a good deal on 
> a Canon A-1 recently on Ebay, but the foam seals were definitely shot (used 
> up a roll of film to test that), so I found a replacement seal set (also on 
> ebay) and did the replacement myself, now the camera is good and light 
> tight and will be good for a decade or two. If all of that sounds daunting, 
> then go with a better seller and make sure they've tested and confirmed 
> that the foam seals are good, and will give a full refund if they're not.
>
> Drew (who lost count of the number of film cameras I own somewhere around 
> a dozen, 3 of which I know to be good (two of those I use) and 2 or 3 
> others probably work)
>
> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:18:20 AM UTC-7 Benjamin Kelley wrote:
>
>> I've been buying lots of stuff from CatLABS in Jamaica Plain, MA.
>> Omer does a great job of testing and inspecting each item he sells, and 
>> the prices often beat eBay.
>> If you're in the market for film gear, I can highly recommend them.
>> https://www.catlabs.info/category/35mm-cameras-and-lenses
>>
>> Also yes, the OM-1, AE-1, and K1000 all have built in light meters, but 
>> if you are buying used, you'll need to know that they actually 
>> work.(Another plug for CatLABS is that Omer tests all gear before selling 
>> and clearly states any defects or features that do not work consistently.)
>> Circuity degrades.  My mention of the light meter on my K1000 being off 
>> by several stops,  It worked but had degraded in one of the resistors.  So 
>> with some testing I came up with a cart of where I needed to set the ISO 
>> settings in comparison to the actual film, to get the meter to work 
>> correctly.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:04 AM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick:
>>>
>>> That’s a little high for a T50. I recently bought one with a Canon 28mm 
>>> lens for $30 + shipping. Works great. These cameras are very common, so 
>>> check around for a better price.
>>>
>>> If your daughter just wants to go out and shoot pictures, this is a 
>>> great choice. Exposure is fully automatic (there’s a built-in exposure 
>>> system, so no external meter needed), and it advances the film 
>>> automatically. She’ll just need to compose the shot and focus. It’s very 
>>> simple to use, but Canon lenses are quite nice and will produce crisp 
>>> images.
>>>
>>> The T50 is also a bit lighter than many other SLRs.
>>>
>>> As others have pointed out, there are many choices out there. Let me 
>>> know if you need any help.
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyo...@me.com
>>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy  
>>>
>>> On May 21, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78: 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08
>>>
>>> I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others 
>>> think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?
>>>
>>> Will I have to buy a light meter separately?
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 Patrick:

 Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them 
 with a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD 
 lens mount.

 Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn 
 about exposure it’s not the right camera. 

 If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and 
 aperture, try the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay 
 with a 50mm Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which 
 means that, like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out 
 there.

 Hope this helps! Film is fun!

 --Eric N

 > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore  
 wrote:
 > 
 > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
 > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
 > 
 > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
 > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
 > what "expensive" means here.
 > 
 > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
 > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
 > 

Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

[Patrick Moore]

This is essential news about light meters; for this and the Catlabs source,
thanks.



On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 9:18 AM Benjamin L. Kelley <
benjamin.kel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been buying lots of stuff from CatLABS in Jamaica Plain, MA.
> Omer does a great job of testing and inspecting each item he sells, and
> the prices often beat eBay.
> If you're in the market for film gear, I can highly recommend them.
> https://www.catlabs.info/category/35mm-cameras-and-lenses
>
> Also yes, the OM-1, AE-1, and K1000 all have built in light meters, but if
> you are buying used, you'll need to know that they actually work.(Another
> plug for CatLABS is that Omer tests all gear before selling and clearly
> states any defects or features that do not work consistently.)
> Circuity degrades.  My mention of the light meter on my K1000 being off by
> several stops,  It worked but had degraded in one of the resistors.  So
> with some testing I came up with a cart of where I needed to set the ISO
> settings in comparison to the actual film, to get the meter to work
> correctly.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:04 AM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick:
>>
>> That’s a little high for a T50. I recently bought one with a Canon 28mm
>> lens for $30 + shipping. Works great. These cameras are very common, so
>> check around for a better price.
>>
>> If your daughter just wants to go out and shoot pictures, this is a great
>> choice. Exposure is fully automatic (there’s a built-in exposure system, so
>> no external meter needed), and it advances the film automatically. She’ll
>> just need to compose the shot and focus. It’s very simple to use, but Canon
>> lenses are quite nice and will produce crisp images.
>>
>> The T50 is also a bit lighter than many other SLRs.
>>
>> As others have pointed out, there are many choices out there. Let me know
>> if you need any help.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyonly...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On May 21, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08
>>
>> I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others
>> think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?
>>
>> Will I have to buy a light meter separately?
>>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick:
>>>
>>> Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them
>>> with a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD
>>> lens mount.
>>>
>>> Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn
>>> about exposure it’s not the right camera.
>>>
>>> If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and aperture,
>>> try the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay with a 50mm
>>> Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which means that,
>>> like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out there.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps! Film is fun!
>>>
>>> --Eric N
>>>
>>> > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
>>> > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>>> >
>>> > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
>>> > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
>>> > what "expensive" means here.
>>> >
>>> > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
>>> > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
>>> > satisfying.
>>> >
>>> > I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
>>> > why? Manual or automatic?
>>> >
>>> > I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th
>>> birthday.
>>> >
>>> > My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
>>> > some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > ---
>>> > Patrick Moore
>>> > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvib%3D2a027zf13YdkBJxiz_eAEnFftoLywLsV4jzbfnXw%40mail.gmail.com
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to 

Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

[Patrick Moore]

More useful information; thanks again. Daughter wants to learn how to
control the picture, so full manual is good. And I'd guess that $200 is the
ceiling right now, until she should really prove interest. Good to know
that highly recommended options are so readily available and inexpensive.

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 9:04 AM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Patrick:
>
> That’s a little high for a T50. I recently bought one with a Canon 28mm
> lens for $30 + shipping. Works great. These cameras are very common, so
> check around for a better price.
>
> If your daughter just wants to go out and shoot pictures, this is a great
> choice. Exposure is fully automatic (there’s a built-in exposure system, so
> no external meter needed), and it advances the film automatically. She’ll
> just need to compose the shot and focus. It’s very simple to use, but Canon
> lenses are quite nice and will produce crisp images.
>
> The T50 is also a bit lighter than many other SLRs.
>
> As others have pointed out, there are many choices out there. Let me know
> if you need any help.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On May 21, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78:
> https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08
>
> I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others
> think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?
>
> Will I have to buy a light meter separately?
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick:
>>
>> Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them
>> with a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD
>> lens mount.
>>
>> Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn about
>> exposure it’s not the right camera.
>>
>> If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and aperture,
>> try the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay with a 50mm
>> Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which means that,
>> like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out there.
>>
>> Hope this helps! Film is fun!
>>
>> --Eric N
>>
>> > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
>> > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>> >
>> > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
>> > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
>> > what "expensive" means here.
>> >
>> > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
>> > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
>> > satisfying.
>> >
>> > I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
>> > why? Manual or automatic?
>> >
>> > I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
>> >
>> > My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
>> > some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Patrick Moore
>> > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvib%3D2a027zf13YdkBJxiz_eAEnFftoLywLsV4jzbfnXw%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/98EA2F02-6AB5-48F2-90BD-D2A177D79780%40me.com
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtZVXeWAoZf5L_8UvuTt9dy697npXerTTptLC-60SR7mQ%40mail.gmail.com
> 

Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

[Drew Saunders]

One advantage of keh.com or catlabs.com or other real photo dealers vs. 
individual sellers on Amazon or Ebay is that there's a good chance that the 
camera has been checked out and confirmed to be working. With most of the 
suggested cameras, there's a very high chance that the foam seals around 
the film door are shot, which would cause light leaks. I got a good deal on 
a Canon A-1 recently on Ebay, but the foam seals were definitely shot (used 
up a roll of film to test that), so I found a replacement seal set (also on 
ebay) and did the replacement myself, now the camera is good and light 
tight and will be good for a decade or two. If all of that sounds daunting, 
then go with a better seller and make sure they've tested and confirmed 
that the foam seals are good, and will give a full refund if they're not.

Drew (who lost count of the number of film cameras I own somewhere around a 
dozen, 3 of which I know to be good (two of those I use) and 2 or 3 others 
probably work)

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:18:20 AM UTC-7 Benjamin Kelley wrote:

> I've been buying lots of stuff from CatLABS in Jamaica Plain, MA.
> Omer does a great job of testing and inspecting each item he sells, and 
> the prices often beat eBay.
> If you're in the market for film gear, I can highly recommend them.
> https://www.catlabs.info/category/35mm-cameras-and-lenses
>
> Also yes, the OM-1, AE-1, and K1000 all have built in light meters, but if 
> you are buying used, you'll need to know that they actually work.(Another 
> plug for CatLABS is that Omer tests all gear before selling and clearly 
> states any defects or features that do not work consistently.)
> Circuity degrades.  My mention of the light meter on my K1000 being off by 
> several stops,  It worked but had degraded in one of the resistors.  So 
> with some testing I came up with a cart of where I needed to set the ISO 
> settings in comparison to the actual film, to get the meter to work 
> correctly.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:04 AM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick:
>>
>> That’s a little high for a T50. I recently bought one with a Canon 28mm 
>> lens for $30 + shipping. Works great. These cameras are very common, so 
>> check around for a better price.
>>
>> If your daughter just wants to go out and shoot pictures, this is a great 
>> choice. Exposure is fully automatic (there’s a built-in exposure system, so 
>> no external meter needed), and it advances the film automatically. She’ll 
>> just need to compose the shot and focus. It’s very simple to use, but Canon 
>> lenses are quite nice and will produce crisp images.
>>
>> The T50 is also a bit lighter than many other SLRs.
>>
>> As others have pointed out, there are many choices out there. Let me know 
>> if you need any help.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy  
>>
>> On May 21, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78: 
>> https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08
>>
>> I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others 
>> think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?
>>
>> Will I have to buy a light meter separately?
>>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick:
>>>
>>> Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them 
>>> with a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD 
>>> lens mount.
>>>
>>> Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn 
>>> about exposure it’s not the right camera. 
>>>
>>> If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and aperture, 
>>> try the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay with a 50mm 
>>> Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which means that, 
>>> like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out there.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps! Film is fun!
>>>
>>> --Eric N
>>>
>>> > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
>>> > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>>> > 
>>> > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
>>> > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
>>> > what "expensive" means here.
>>> > 
>>> > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
>>> > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
>>> > satisfying.
>>> > 
>>> > I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
>>> > why? Manual or automatic?
>>> > 
>>> > I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th 
>>> birthday.
>>> > 
>>> > My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
>>> > some care. She might be able to 

Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

[Benjamin L. Kelley]

I've been buying lots of stuff from CatLABS in Jamaica Plain, MA.
Omer does a great job of testing and inspecting each item he sells, and the
prices often beat eBay.
If you're in the market for film gear, I can highly recommend them.
https://www.catlabs.info/category/35mm-cameras-and-lenses

Also yes, the OM-1, AE-1, and K1000 all have built in light meters, but if
you are buying used, you'll need to know that they actually work.(Another
plug for CatLABS is that Omer tests all gear before selling and clearly
states any defects or features that do not work consistently.)
Circuity degrades.  My mention of the light meter on my K1000 being off by
several stops,  It worked but had degraded in one of the resistors.  So
with some testing I came up with a cart of where I needed to set the ISO
settings in comparison to the actual film, to get the meter to work
correctly.



On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:04 AM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Patrick:
>
> That’s a little high for a T50. I recently bought one with a Canon 28mm
> lens for $30 + shipping. Works great. These cameras are very common, so
> check around for a better price.
>
> If your daughter just wants to go out and shoot pictures, this is a great
> choice. Exposure is fully automatic (there’s a built-in exposure system, so
> no external meter needed), and it advances the film automatically. She’ll
> just need to compose the shot and focus. It’s very simple to use, but Canon
> lenses are quite nice and will produce crisp images.
>
> The T50 is also a bit lighter than many other SLRs.
>
> As others have pointed out, there are many choices out there. Let me know
> if you need any help.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On May 21, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78:
> https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08
>
> I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others
> think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?
>
> Will I have to buy a light meter separately?
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick:
>>
>> Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them
>> with a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD
>> lens mount.
>>
>> Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn about
>> exposure it’s not the right camera.
>>
>> If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and aperture,
>> try the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay with a 50mm
>> Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which means that,
>> like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out there.
>>
>> Hope this helps! Film is fun!
>>
>> --Eric N
>>
>> > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
>> > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>> >
>> > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
>> > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
>> > what "expensive" means here.
>> >
>> > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
>> > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
>> > satisfying.
>> >
>> > I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
>> > why? Manual or automatic?
>> >
>> > I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
>> >
>> > My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
>> > some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Patrick Moore
>> > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvib%3D2a027zf13YdkBJxiz_eAEnFftoLywLsV4jzbfnXw%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/98EA2F02-6AB5-48F2-90BD-D2A177D79780%40me.com
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats 

Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Patrick:

That’s a little high for a T50. I recently bought one with a Canon 28mm lens 
for $30 + shipping. Works great. These cameras are very common, so check around 
for a better price.

If your daughter just wants to go out and shoot pictures, this is a great 
choice. Exposure is fully automatic (there’s a built-in exposure system, so no 
external meter needed), and it advances the film automatically. She’ll just 
need to compose the shot and focus. It’s very simple to use, but Canon lenses 
are quite nice and will produce crisp images.

The T50 is also a bit lighter than many other SLRs.

As others have pointed out, there are many choices out there. Let me know if 
you need any help.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On May 21, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78: 
> https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08 
> 
> 
> I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others 
> think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?
> 
> Will I have to buy a light meter separately?
> 
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  > wrote:
> Patrick:
> 
> Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them with 
> a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD lens 
> mount.
> 
> Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn about 
> exposure it’s not the right camera. 
> 
> If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and aperture, try 
> the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay with a 50mm 
> Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which means that, 
> like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out there.
> 
> Hope this helps! Film is fun!
> 
> --Eric N
> 
> > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore  > > wrote:
> > 
> > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
> > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
> > 
> > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
> > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
> > what "expensive" means here.
> > 
> > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
> > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
> > satisfying.
> > 
> > I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
> > why? Manual or automatic?
> > 
> > I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
> > 
> > My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
> > some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > ---
> > Patrick Moore
> > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> > .
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvib%3D2a027zf13YdkBJxiz_eAEnFftoLywLsV4jzbfnXw%40mail.gmail.com
> >  
> > .
> 
> -- 
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>  
> .
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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>  
> 

[RBW] Shimano discontinuing rim-brake hubs?

[Patrick Moore]

Per Grant's blog:

*Shimano is going to stop making  middle-to-upper end non-disc brake hubs
soon, road and mountain. *

Thank God there is always Phil Wood. And no doubt vast quantities of old
Shimano rim-brake hubs buried in garages worldwide.


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] FS: Berthoud Aspin Open Saddle - Brown and Selle Anatomica X1 - Oxblood Copper

[Sean B.]

Hello,

Looking to get rid of some of my extra saddles. Buyer pays shipping of 
their choice (USPS, UPS, ect). Both saddles are in great shape. 

$190 - Berthoud Aspin Open Saddle - Brown. It's been ridden just under 150 
miles. Treated once on both sides with Obenaufs.  

$90 - Selle Anatomica  X1 - Oxblood Copper. Ridden once, so lets say 20ish 
miles ridden. Never treated. 

Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/CrMECXF6d4MPvRQAA

Let me know if you have any questions or want more pictures!

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[RBW] Re: FS: 10 speed cassette, chain, RD, bar ends

[lconley]

SOLD!

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:37:22 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> ridden less than 100 miles on my Roadini as a 1x10 - all prices OBO & 
> include shipping CONUS
>
> Shimano Ultegra CS-6700 12-30 10 speed Cassette and CN-6701 chain (110 
> links) - $65
> Microshift R10 (RD-47S) short cage rear derailleur, all silver except rear 
> part of parallelogram - silver cable adjuster has been substituted for 
> black, logo has been polished off - $25
> Microshift 10 speed bar end shifters - selectable index or friction rear, 
> friction front - $65
> Everything together - $140
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL[image: ChainCassette.jpg]
>
> [image: MicroshiftRDshifters.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all; I am entirely camera-ignorant, since I gave up
photography about age 11 1/2 after starting to experiment with my
mother's Brownie at about age 11 1/4. (You can verify this by the
quality of my photos onlist.)

The Olympus OM-1, Canon AE-1, and Pentax K1000 seem to be favorites.
All these have built-in light meters, no? And they seem to come up on
Amazon for =/< $200.

Upshot: I can't go wrong with any of these 3?

Many thanks again.

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:11 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
> attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>
> I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
> flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
> what "expensive" means here.
>
> She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
> affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
> satisfying.
>
> I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
> why? Manual or automatic?
>
> I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
>
> My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
> some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum



-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Regrets

[Joe M.]

Damien, what size and color Roadini do you regret selling?

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 4:42:20 AM UTC-7 alan lavine wrote:

> I totally agree with Patrick's comments, I could have written it myself. 
>  I'm learning, slowly...
> You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  
> What a weird expression that is!
>
> Alan
> NYC
>
> On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 8:16:16 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
> wrote:
>
>> This 64cm Sam Hillborne- https://photos.app.goo.gl/oe7AdWXzUKB8NF8dA
>> but it's in a good home.
>> I popped the seatstay top braze off and had the joy of talking with 
>> Richard Schwinn about fixing it better than new, which he did for free. 
>> Once I had it back I was busy riding a Quickbeam and a Clem H, and felt 
>> weird about it having broken for some crazy reason, and sold it for a 
>> song...
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 3:56:06 PM UTC-4 Damien wrote:
>>
>>> In my seemingly endless search to optimize my bike collection, fill 
>>> gaps, and try new and cool bikes, I recently realized how many bikes I've 
>>> had in my life and how many questionable decisions I've made. There are a 
>>> number of choices I've made, for better or worse, to sell bikes in order to 
>>> make room for other bikes, downsize, or simply because I felt they weren't 
>>> getting the use they deserved.
>>>
>>> My question to the group is: what bike or bikes do you most regret 
>>> selling, trading, or giving away?  
>>>
>>> For me, as you may know, I absolutely regret selling my Roadini, and an 
>>> old Marinoni touring bike that I originally thought was too big for me (I 
>>> realize now how wrong I was, and am currently in the process of replacing 
>>> it!).
>>>
>>> Would love to hear what regrets others here have!
>>>
>>> <3
>>> Damien
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Beginners SLR camera?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Eric. I see this body with the lense on Amazon for $78:
https://www.amazon.com/Canon-T50-Camera-35mm-50MM/dp/B00VHCSE08

I am as ignorant of cameras as my daughter is of AM hubs. What do others
think of this as a motivated beginner's camera?

Will I have to buy a light meter separately?

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:22 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Patrick:
>
> Excellent option is the Canon T50. Simple, cheap SLR (you can find them
> with a Canon lens for less than $50 on eBay) that uses the common Canon FD
> lens mount.
>
> Manual focus with automatic exposure only, so if she wants to learn about
> exposure it’s not the right camera.
>
> If she wants a camera that lets the user set shutter speed and aperture,
> try the Minolta SRT 101. They’re going for about $60-80 on eBay with a 50mm
> Minolta lens. It takes lenses with the Minolta SR mount, which means that,
> like the Canon, there are a bunch of nice used lenses out there.
>
> Hope this helps! Film is fun!
>
> --Eric N
>
> > On May 20, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> >
> > My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
> > attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
> >
> > I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
> > flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
> > what "expensive" means here.
> >
> > She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
> > affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
> > satisfying.
> >
> > I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
> > why? Manual or automatic?
> >
> > I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
> >
> > My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
> > some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
> >
> > --
> >
> > ---
> > Patrick Moore
> > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvib%3D2a027zf13YdkBJxiz_eAEnFftoLywLsV4jzbfnXw%40mail.gmail.com
> .
>
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> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Another >10year old Rivendell

[Bill Lindsay]

John Hawrylak stated he thought my Norther Lyon would be the one bike I 
would keep over all others.  

My Norther Lyon is another perfect bike, but it's a perfect bike for a 
particular application, and that's being a rando bike.  I can easily knock 
out a brevet on the Hillborne.  Having a perfect rando bike is a great #1 
bike for a person who only does randonneuring.  For me, the Norther Lyon is 
#6 on my ranked list of Strava miles.  

By saying the Hillborne is the one bike I'd keep, I did not mean to imply 
that the other 15 are bad and I want to get rid of them.  My stable is 
dialed.  All 16 bikes are perfect in their own way.  The number is really 
good.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 7:03:01 PM UTC-7 John Hawrylak wrote:

> Bill
>
> Glad your enjoying Michigan with the Sam.   The pictures were very nice.   
>
> Not surprised about your conclusion the Sam would be the 1 bike you would 
> keep, from your previous posts  I thought you also had a Northern-Lyon and 
> with the low trial and thin wall tubing, I thought the N-L would be the one 
> bike to keep.
>
> There is a dairy farm a little north of Monroe, Calder Dairy Farm.  They 
> have delicious ice cream if you ever ride or drive in that direction.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 1:11:01 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I've admittedly got a huge stable of bikes.  It has "swole" to fully 16 
>> bikes at the moment.  I'm really proud of the fact that all of them are 
>> dialed and that I ride them all.  As a result, even though I put down a 
>> decent amount of mileage, none of my bikes has been ridden an epic amount.  
>>
>> The bike I've owned the longest and ridden the most is my 56cm Rivendell 
>> Sam Hillborne.  I bought it initially in December of 2009.  My work 
>> situation recently changed and has me travelling to Wayne County Michigan 
>> once a month, for at least a week at a time.  As an investment in my own 
>> quality of life away from home, I shipped out my Hillborne, which now lives 
>> in my office.  At first it seemed like exile, but now I realize it's a 
>> position of honor.  Here on the west edge of the eastern time zone, it 
>> stays light until 9PM or later, so there's a ton of time to get riding in, 
>> and when the choices are watching TV in a hotel room or going on a ride, 
>> it's been quite easy to put quite a few miles in. When you have only one 
>> bike, the choice is "ride or don't ride".  There's no fretting over 
>> wear-leveling the whole stable.  Over this past weekend I made a longer 
>> trek out into Washtenaw County to visit Ann Arbor.  It's shocking how 
>> quickly the miles peel away when there are no hills to speak of.  
>>
>> My Sam Hillborne is freaking perfect, and there is no question in my mind 
>> that if I had to downsize from 16 bikes to 1, the Hillborne would be the 
>> one I'd keep.  Here's a few shots of my endeavors to increase my footprint 
>> in Wayne County.  
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51184956010
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51183817561
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51183880066
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51183881196
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51184958840
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA (but sometimes Livonia, MI)
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Regrets

[alan lavine]

I totally agree with Patrick's comments, I could have written it myself. 
 I'm learning, slowly...
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  
What a weird expression that is!

Alan
NYC

On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 8:16:16 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY wrote:

> This 64cm Sam Hillborne- https://photos.app.goo.gl/oe7AdWXzUKB8NF8dA
> but it's in a good home.
> I popped the seatstay top braze off and had the joy of talking with 
> Richard Schwinn about fixing it better than new, which he did for free. 
> Once I had it back I was busy riding a Quickbeam and a Clem H, and felt 
> weird about it having broken for some crazy reason, and sold it for a 
> song...
> -Kai
>
> On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 3:56:06 PM UTC-4 Damien wrote:
>
>> In my seemingly endless search to optimize my bike collection, fill gaps, 
>> and try new and cool bikes, I recently realized how many bikes I've had in 
>> my life and how many questionable decisions I've made. There are a number 
>> of choices I've made, for better or worse, to sell bikes in order to make 
>> room for other bikes, downsize, or simply because I felt they weren't 
>> getting the use they deserved.
>>
>> My question to the group is: what bike or bikes do you most regret 
>> selling, trading, or giving away?  
>>
>> For me, as you may know, I absolutely regret selling my Roadini, and an 
>> old Marinoni touring bike that I originally thought was too big for me (I 
>> realize now how wrong I was, and am currently in the process of replacing 
>> it!).
>>
>> Would love to hear what regrets others here have!
>>
>> <3
>> Damien
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Betty Foy after 10 years

[ascpgh]

In response to what Leah wrote: 

"Andy - yes, delight us with your 20 year Ram write-up and beausage. Who 
else has had a bike for a long time and can contribute? Like Pam, I’d 
really enjoy those stories and photos."

I got my 2002 Rambouillet just in time (4pm, afternoon prior to departure) 
to ride across the country with three others on a trip so light I didn't 
have a weather resistant camera small enough to take. Grant said this bike 
would fit me without going custom, so I put on a Nelson Longflap with a 
Bagman support, three cages, a pump, some spare tubes, headed to Yorktown 
to ride across the country with three folks, one I nominally knew as my 
wife's (who demurred from this activity) friend from college. 

I had a slight detour from plans in Colorado when the fresh granite and tar 
chip top road popped my back tire on a winding descent. I couldn't hold a 
line on the flat, had a 35 mph high side dismount, left measurable amounts 
of myself on the road and a separated my left shoulder. After getting up, 
fixing my flat and one of the other's (I was the riding mechanic), finding 
no cell service on three carriers' phones, not a passing car in hours and a 
dark storm across the western sky, I looked at the others who exited their 
wordless shock at my condition observing "Andy, your shoulder's messed up". 
Yes, and help is 48 more miles from here.

What stood out on that evening was how I was able to ride my bike those 
miles into the next town as such. It's been a dependable bike since then 
with all sorts of adventures, iterations, friendships and a few 
sufferfests. At the Nor'Easter curtailed April 2012 Riv Rally East the 
prudent either detoured the rest of the ride at Ohiopyle or hunkered down 
and camped through the storm (Kalamazoo Marc). I stood on  the porch of the 
outfitter providing shuttle for most back to Cumberland, MD trying to reach 
my wife until they closed at 5. I wanted to redirect her to a nearer pick 
up location but was visiting frineds in an equally challenging cell service 
location, so I headed out into the snow on the GAP headed for our 
predetermined pick up site. A long couple of hours on a desolate snow 
covered path on the trusty Ram. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9fP8TaUxETEBTgdQ8

I have gotten through many of the pictures to add some context but pictures 
do tell a thousand words...before writing any. I'm still scouring storage 
platforms for other pictures from eras and riding not covered. Work in 
progress. Learned a lot on this bike and from this bike. Grant was right, 
this bike will work for me. 

Andy Cheatham
On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 12:35:07 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

> Your bike mistreated because of its beausage? Never. It is my unvarnished 
> opinion that the mistreated bike is the pristine one. A pristine bike is a 
> parked bike, and Rivs are meant to be ridden. I have one scuff in my 
> raspberry Platypus paint and I don’t even care. More to come, I figure.
>
> Andy - yes, delight us with your 20 year Ram write-up and beausage. Who 
> else has had a bike for a long time and can contribute? Like Pam, I’d 
> really enjoy those stories and photos.
>
> As for me, my Betty Foy was 8 years old when I traded it in for the longer 
> chain-stayed, raspberry Platypus. I learned a lot in those 8 years and you 
> could see it on the frame. I didn’t even know how to raise the handlebars 
> when I got my Betty. I stripped a bolt or two. Mashed the brake cable into 
> the top tube paint job. I used it to pull my kids and haul my dog, and as 
> such, it was tipped over by said kids and dog more than once. Wish I had 
> done a similar write-up!
>
> Leah
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 16, 2021, at 7:21 AM, Pam Bikes  wrote:
>
> I was afraid people would give me a hard time for thinking I mistreated 
> my bike.  I'd love to see other bikes in similar condition.  I used to 
> stress over the paint chips but have enjoyed all the rides and have come to 
> realize that bikes are for riding.  If it gets chipped, that's part of the 
> journey.  
>
>
> I'm sure more people have ridden lots more than me.  I just ride mine 
> everyday, everywhere literally.  We're all lucky we have our Rivs before 
> Ultraromancer, Bike Snob and Russ of The Path Less Pedaled got theirs.  
> Rivs may be more hard to come by.  
>
> On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 10:02:36 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> You use your bike the way we all should (if weather permitted).  Good to 
>> remember the nicks and scratches.  A well used bike.  
>>
>> On Saturday, May 15, 2021 at 9:11:15 PM UTC-4 Pam Bikes wrote:
>>
>>> I wanted to share pictures of a Riv after 10 years with lots of 
>>> beausage.  
>>> I'm terrible at Wordpress and not sure how to format it so it's cobbled 
>>> together but I did put all the pictures there and some fun facts.  I love 
>>> my bike.  It's the one thing I use everyday and enjoy riding it still.
>>>
>>> http://cltspokespeople.org/my-betty-foy-after-10-years/
>>>
>>>