Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Pam Bikes]

I love the drawing.  Please keep it in the digital version.  I connect 
better w/handwritten, hand drawn.  More comprehensible to me.

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 7:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Yeah good point about the Soma, if I'm going to mention Heron by the same 
> logic that frame should be included. I debated that one also. 
>
> Redwood is a neat one, being a different name for the tallest sizes! I 
> assume the distinction is some design difference (tubing?) to suit the 
> extra big 65/68 sizes? 
>
> On Sat., Nov. 27, 2021, 4:15 p.m. Karl Wilcox,  wrote:
>
>> I am glad to see you got the ‘Redwood’ frame in there!
>> Cheers,
>> Karl
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2021, at 3:29 AM, Fullylugged  wrote:
>>
>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
>>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
>>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
>>> upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>>>
>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
>>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
>>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
>>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
>>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
>>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>>> takes.  
>>>
>>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
>>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
>>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
>>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
>>> research so far. 
>>>
>>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> .
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Re: [RBW] More...Autumn in Japan

[JAS]

Your photos are beautiful, John.  The light and composition of the first 
one with the trees bending over your bike should be on a magazine cover.  
Brilliant.

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 4:12:33 PM UTC-8 Tirebiter ATX wrote:

> stunning photos!
>
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM esoterica etc  wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your pics John, they are gorgeous! Would love to visit 
>> Japan someday. Enjoy your Thanksgiving weekend,
>>
>> ~Mark
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 6:43 PM John Rinker  wrote:
>>
>>> Spent the day in the Tanzawa-Oyama mountains enjoying perfect 
>>> temperatures, steep, isolated tracks, and stunning Autumn colors. Thankful, 
>>> indeed!
>>> [image: IMG_0291.jpeg][image: IMG_0280.jpeg]
>>> [image: IMG_0296.jpeg]
>>> [image: IMG_0285.jpeg]
>>> [image: IMG_0303.jpeg]
>>>
>>
>>>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Deore shadow M592 rear mech + friction silver bar-end shifter conundrum

[Andrew Turner]

Noted! Maybe I'll stick to it then. It has been over a year since I've run
9 speeds.

On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 5:28 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Ah, everything was different: closer ratio gearing, closer-spaced cogs and
> a longer lever to shift them. I can see how the shifting to bigger 9-speed
> cogs would require more effort.
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 2:45:03 PM UTC-8 Andrew Turner wrote:
>
>> The "before" was/is an Ultegra 11 speed rear mech. 6800 I think? 11 speed
>> cassette and downtube friction shifters (Silver). Very normal pressure
>> needed to move the chain. I'm gonna try to run it next with the 9 speed
>> cassette and a roadlink.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 3:27 PM Garth  wrote:
>>
>>> I've read some other comments about having shifting issues with that RD
>>> in the lowest gears.
>>> So what do you have on hand ? Any friction or other shifters ? A normal
>>> RD ?
>>> If you have only one start with the one you have. If you have both I'd
>>> start with the trying a normal RD.
>>> Doesn't it state on the Riv page the "nobody squawks at a Deore" ?
>>> Hah hah ... the w-w-w is a very large place and the squawking do take
>>> place.
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-5 Andrew Turner wrote:
>>>
 I've got the Deore shadow rear mech that Riv sells, a 12-36 9 speed
 cassette and Silver bar-end shifters and I noticed it takes waay more
 effort to pull the lever up to run the lower gears than before. I'm
 considering using their downtube shifters for a little extra leverage. Is
 this due to the stronger spring in the rear mech or what? Is there
 something i can do or will time and use make it easier?

 And just to vent, this shadow design is a little, well, dumb. I can't
 throw the chain across the whole range to the small cog without it getting
 stuck on the part of the mech where the limit screws are. Not that I would
 ever do that but damn.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Yeah good point about the Soma, if I'm going to mention Heron by the same
logic that frame should be included. I debated that one also.

Redwood is a neat one, being a different name for the tallest sizes! I
assume the distinction is some design difference (tubing?) to suit the
extra big 65/68 sizes?

On Sat., Nov. 27, 2021, 4:15 p.m. Karl Wilcox,  wrote:

> I am glad to see you got the ‘Redwood’ frame in there!
> Cheers,
> Karl
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 27, 2021, at 3:29 AM, Fullylugged 
> wrote:
>
> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers,
>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was
>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then
>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards
>> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you
>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this
>> takes.
>>
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I
>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant;
>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are
>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my
>> research so far.
>>
>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>
>>
>> --
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Karl Wilcox]

I am glad to see you got the ‘Redwood’ frame in there!
Cheers,
Karl

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2021, at 3:29 AM, Fullylugged  wrote:
> 
> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road Standard, 
> I think by '96.
> 
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, as 
>> well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then moved 
>> to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards of 100's 
>> of snapshots of these sites today).  
>> 
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you so I 
>> wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out omissions 
>> or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some of these 
>> models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each model was 
>> made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition to the 
>> timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this takes.  
>> 
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I left 
>> Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; I 
>> might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are ones I 
>> have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my research 
>> so far. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[esoterica etc]

I would also include the San Marcos in the timeline! Made by Soma but
designed by Rivendell, it was in production from 2011 to about 2015.
Similar to the way the Bleriot was the "cheaper" MIT version of the Saluki,
I believe the San Marcos was the budget alternative to the A. Homer Hilsen.
I have a San Marcos and have ridden an AHH, and their ride qualities and
geometry are extremely similar.

~Mark
Raleigh, NC

On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 4:13 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and all
> this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, Keith,
> and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this thing.
>
> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom,
> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking
> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back
> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders
> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding
> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.
>
> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice
> will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the
> beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line
>> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early
>> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's
>> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom
>> is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Nice work, Jason!
>>>
>>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the
>>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a
>>> name added to express it as one of two road frames.
>>>
>>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've
>>> only ever seen two of them.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom
 Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration,
 with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many
 were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I
 missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the
 MIT batch rolled in?

 On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a
> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to 
> go
> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to
> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part,
> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.
>
> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as
> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95
> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition?
> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road
> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all.
>
> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I
> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome
> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I
> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either
> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and
> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure
> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting
> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end.
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My
>> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or
>> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it
>> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying
>> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were 
>> -
>> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID
>> have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider 
>> them
>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current
>> long chainstay, longer 

Re: [RBW] Re: Deore shadow M592 rear mech + friction silver bar-end shifter conundrum

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, everything was different: closer ratio gearing, closer-spaced cogs and 
a longer lever to shift them. I can see how the shifting to bigger 9-speed 
cogs would require more effort. 

Joe Bernard

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 2:45:03 PM UTC-8 Andrew Turner wrote:

> The "before" was/is an Ultegra 11 speed rear mech. 6800 I think? 11 speed 
> cassette and downtube friction shifters (Silver). Very normal pressure 
> needed to move the chain. I'm gonna try to run it next with the 9 speed 
> cassette and a roadlink.
>
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 3:27 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> I've read some other comments about having shifting issues with that RD 
>> in the lowest gears. 
>> So what do you have on hand ? Any friction or other shifters ? A normal 
>> RD ? 
>> If you have only one start with the one you have. If you have both I'd 
>> start with the trying a normal RD. 
>> Doesn't it state on the Riv page the "nobody squawks at a Deore" ?
>> Hah hah ... the w-w-w is a very large place and the squawking do take 
>> place. 
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-5 Andrew Turner wrote:
>>
>>> I've got the Deore shadow rear mech that Riv sells, a 12-36 9 speed 
>>> cassette and Silver bar-end shifters and I noticed it takes waay more 
>>> effort to pull the lever up to run the lower gears than before. I'm 
>>> considering using their downtube shifters for a little extra leverage. Is 
>>> this due to the stronger spring in the rear mech or what? Is there 
>>> something i can do or will time and use make it easier?  
>>>
>>> And just to vent, this shadow design is a little, well, dumb. I can't 
>>> throw the chain across the whole range to the small cog without it getting 
>>> stuck on the part of the mech where the limit screws are. Not that I would 
>>> ever do that but damn. 
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Emily Guise]

These kinds of questions are so fascinating to me! I have a 2018 59cm Clem 
L, and I've test-ridden the medium (55cm?) size Gus (at the Rivelo event 
that Maxcr posted video of). I'm 5'9" and my PBH is 89, so similar to 
yours, Kiley, although I'm 195 lbs. My strongest impressions of both bikes 
are how comfortable they are. They both felt like they fit me right away. 
The Gus had albatross bars on it, and that seemed like the right choice. I 
was surprised the medium Gus fit me so well, when I am used to riding 
larger bikes, but it did. The bars were set about 2 inches above the saddle.

Since it was a test bike, I didn't get to ride it for long, but I did take 
it on a paved and unpaved trail and it felt very stable and was easy to 
control, which is the same feeling I have about my Clem L. They are both 
much faster than they seem- my Clem has a magic quality on a few Portland 
hills where it just seems to propel itself up, and I felt that on the Gus 
too. I also like the longer rear on both for stability when climbing steep 
hills, with or without full panniers.

At that time I wasn't really interested in a Gus or Susie because it did 
seem pretty redundant with my Clem, and I prefer the looks and ease of the 
super low step-through for city riding, although it was fun to ride the Gus 
and compare! Probably if I did more off-road riding they'd appeal more. 
However, I absolutely love the music decals and paint job on the 
Gus/Susies, though. They were really detailed and special. 

-Emily

On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 2:12:18 PM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:

> I recently found this video, from Grant's visit to Rivelo in 2019, he's 
> talking about the Hillibikes. It's long and a bit slow but it touches on a 
> lot of interesting facts that I didn't know: 
>
> Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diTTqXluBEw
>
> Max
> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 10:07:22 AM UTC-5 row.n.2...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Eric
>> I grew up in Galion..near Mansfield
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:58 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>>
>>> Jon, I’m in Plain City, just NW of Columbus. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021, Jon Dukeman  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>> Eric
 Where in Ohio are you?

 On Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 3:47 AM Eric Daume  wrote:

>>> Leah, you picked a lovely time of the year to move to Michigan! Bundle 
> up!
>
> Eric
> in Ohio, but who ends up in MI all to frequently
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 6:34 PM Leah Peterson  
> wrote:
>
 I know…big missed opportunity on my part - I absolutely should have 
>> weighed those bikes but I was like a kid at Christmas and got caught up 
>> in 
>> the shiny new bike excitement. Totally forgot about weighing the thing. 
>>
>> Someone mentioned (was it this thread?) about knowing how a bike 
>> feels weight-wise, and that’s true. I can tell the difference between 
>> adding and empty Saddlesack or not. I can probably tell the new seat 
>> post I 
>> put on my Platy is heavier if I go lift that bike right now.
>>
>> I’m moving to Michigan in 3 weeks. Here’s hoping I make some 
>> Rivendell friends in my new state who will keep me accountable for this 
>> stuff! 藍
>>
>> Sorry!
>> L
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2021, at 9:34 AM, aeroperf  wrote:
>>
>> While we’re going "arg!"...
>> A number of threads have asked, and one of the questions could be 
>> answered just by hanging a bike on the scale at your LBS.
>>
>> I was hoping Leah would weigh Peppermint Platy before and after her 
>> build, but I guess that’s OBE.
>> How about somebody go weigh their Clem, and somebody go weigh their 
>> Gus/Susie, and somebody go weigh their Platypus - and report back?
>>
>> Whether bike weight actually makes a difference or not, there seems 
>> to be a conspiracy about not reporting Rivendell bike weights.
>> We’ve had people talk about getting them up a flight of stairs, or 
>> hanging them on a rack, but nobody actually puts out a number.
>>
>> I’ll start.  Here’s mine:
>> 2015 Sam, size 55, as supplied by Rivendell:
>> Bar end shifters, Suguino XD2 triple crank, FD-3030 front, Atlas 700c 
>> wheels, Conti SpeedRide tubed tires, Shimano RD-M591 rear, Shimano R550 
>> levers, Tektro R-559 brakes, cork grips.
>> Add a Serfas RX-921V saddle, Blackspire pedals, Zefal fenders, and a 
>> bell.
>> 29 pounds, 3 oz
>>
>> Add a Blackburn EX-1 rack and BCC 12.12 computer and my typical 
>> riding weight comes in a just a smidge under 30.5 pounds.
>>
>> A Homer, size 51, set up exactly the same way except Deore FC-M590 
>> crank and FD-M610 derailleur came in at 29 pounds 14 oz.  Smaller bike, 
>> thinner tubing, lighter crank.
>>
>> It’s not a Susie or a Clem or a Platy, but it is a data point.  Next 
>> time at your LBS, take one minute and have them weigh your bike.
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Deore shadow M592 rear mech + friction silver bar-end shifter conundrum

[Andrew Turner]

The "before" was/is an Ultegra 11 speed rear mech. 6800 I think? 11 speed
cassette and downtube friction shifters (Silver). Very normal pressure
needed to move the chain. I'm gonna try to run it next with the 9 speed
cassette and a roadlink.

On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 3:27 PM Garth  wrote:

> I've read some other comments about having shifting issues with that RD in
> the lowest gears.
> So what do you have on hand ? Any friction or other shifters ? A normal RD
> ?
> If you have only one start with the one you have. If you have both I'd
> start with the trying a normal RD.
> Doesn't it state on the Riv page the "nobody squawks at a Deore" ?
> Hah hah ... the w-w-w is a very large place and the squawking do take
> place.
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-5 Andrew Turner wrote:
>
>> I've got the Deore shadow rear mech that Riv sells, a 12-36 9 speed
>> cassette and Silver bar-end shifters and I noticed it takes waay more
>> effort to pull the lever up to run the lower gears than before. I'm
>> considering using their downtube shifters for a little extra leverage. Is
>> this due to the stronger spring in the rear mech or what? Is there
>> something i can do or will time and use make it easier?
>>
>> And just to vent, this shadow design is a little, well, dumb. I can't
>> throw the chain across the whole range to the small cog without it getting
>> stuck on the part of the mech where the limit screws are. Not that I would
>> ever do that but damn.
>
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[RBW] Re: Deore shadow M592 rear mech + friction silver bar-end shifter conundrum

[Garth]

I've read some other comments about having shifting issues with that RD in 
the lowest gears. 
So what do you have on hand ? Any friction or other shifters ? A normal RD 
? 
If you have only one start with the one you have. If you have both I'd 
start with the trying a normal RD. 
Doesn't it state on the Riv page the "nobody squawks at a Deore" ?
Hah hah ... the w-w-w is a very large place and the squawking do take 
place. 
On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-5 Andrew Turner wrote:

> I've got the Deore shadow rear mech that Riv sells, a 12-36 9 speed 
> cassette and Silver bar-end shifters and I noticed it takes waay more 
> effort to pull the lever up to run the lower gears than before. I'm 
> considering using their downtube shifters for a little extra leverage. Is 
> this due to the stronger spring in the rear mech or what? Is there 
> something i can do or will time and use make it easier?  
>
> And just to vent, this shadow design is a little, well, dumb. I can't 
> throw the chain across the whole range to the small cog without it getting 
> stuck on the part of the mech where the limit screws are. Not that I would 
> ever do that but damn. 

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[RBW] Re: Deore shadow M592 rear mech + friction silver bar-end shifter conundrum

[Joe Bernard]

What is the "before" you're comparing this setup to? 

Joe Bernard

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 12:55:34 PM UTC-8 Andrew Turner wrote:

> I've got the Deore shadow rear mech that Riv sells, a 12-36 9 speed 
> cassette and Silver bar-end shifters and I noticed it takes waay more 
> effort to pull the lever up to run the lower gears than before. I'm 
> considering using their downtube shifters for a little extra leverage. Is 
> this due to the stronger spring in the rear mech or what? Is there 
> something i can do or will time and use make it easier?  
>
> And just to vent, this shadow design is a little, well, dumb. I can't 
> throw the chain across the whole range to the small cog without it getting 
> stuck on the part of the mech where the limit screws are. Not that I would 
> ever do that but damn. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and all 
this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, Keith, 
and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this thing. 

I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, prototype, 
and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking color-coding. 
It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back to Waterford 
a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders sprinkled in of 
course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding the start of the 
official custom program, I expect, as well.  

I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice 
will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the 
beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D 

On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line 
> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early 
> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's 
> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom 
> is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.  
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Nice work, Jason!
>>
>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a 
>> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>>
>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've only 
>> ever seen two of them. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
>>> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
>>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
>>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
>>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
>>> MIT batch rolled in?  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to 
 go 
 before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
 what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
 and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  

 I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
 different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
 lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
 Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
 was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 

 I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
 omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
 (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
 think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
 underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
 Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
 yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
 available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 


  

 On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:

> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were 
> - 
> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
> have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider 
> them 
> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
> the 
> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>>> Readers, as 

[RBW] Deore shadow M592 rear mech + friction silver bar-end shifter conundrum

[Andrew Turner]

I've got the Deore shadow rear mech that Riv sells, a 12-36 9 speed 
cassette and Silver bar-end shifters and I noticed it takes waay more 
effort to pull the lever up to run the lower gears than before. I'm 
considering using their downtube shifters for a little extra leverage. Is 
this due to the stronger spring in the rear mech or what? Is there 
something i can do or will time and use make it easier?  

And just to vent, this shadow design is a little, well, dumb. I can't throw 
the chain across the whole range to the small cog without it getting stuck 
on the part of the mech where the limit screws are. Not that I would ever 
do that but damn. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Joe Bernard]

Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line 
between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early 
Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's 
ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom 
is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.  

Joe Bernard

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Nice work, Jason!
>
> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a 
> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>
> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've only 
> ever seen two of them. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
>> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
>> MIT batch rolled in?  
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>>
>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>>
>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
 comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
 "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
 was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
 customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - 
 with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
 have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
 insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
 long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
 the 
 bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.


 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com 
>> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites 
>> today).  
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of 
>> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point 
>> out 
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
>> some 
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where 
>> each 
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in 
>> addition 
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>> takes.  
>>
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: 
>> I left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
>> relevant; I might be missing some Rosco's but 

Re: [RBW] FS: Brooks B68, Terry Liberator X Gel Saddles

[Emily Guise]

Thanks for that note, Abe! I was going off the measurements on the site I 
bought it from, but I measured it this morning and it is indeed 230mm long by 
200mm wide.

Emily

> On Nov 27, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Pancake  wrote:
> 
> Hi Emily,
> The "short" B68 apparently measures:
> Length: 230mm
> Width: 200mm
> Though some sites list it at 235mm x 205mm. 
> 
> Saddles both look to be in great shape - good luck with the sale. 
> Abe
> 
> 
>> On Friday, 26 November 2021 at 20:11:38 UTC-8 Emily Guise wrote:
>> Hey all, my apologies, I totally forgot to say that the B68 is the shorter S 
>> model, not the regular length. 
>> 
>> Emily
>> 
>>> On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 7:15:57 PM UTC-8 kay...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Hi! Is the B68 still for sale?
>>> 
> On Nov 26, 2021, at 8:21 PM, Emily Guise  wrote:
> 
 
>>> 
 Hello friends! After trying a bunch of saddles, I've finally found some 
 that work for me. Sadly, that doesn't include these two, so they're up for 
 sale. Both are lightly used and in excellent shape, with their original 
 packaging for each. Buyer would pay shipping costs. Lots of photos of both 
 saddles here.
 
 If interested, email me off list at emilykguise (at) gmail (dot) com. 
 Thanks!
 
 Black Brooks B68 Imperial. This is NOS. I put two light coats of Obenauf's 
 on it but it is definitely not broken in as my butt can attest. Textured 
 leather top, steel rails, bag loops. Measures 260mm long and 210mm wide. 
 $75 plus shipping (I originally paid $95)
 
 Terry Liberator X Gel. Such a nice saddle but just too narrow for me. 
 Synthetic cover with a little bit of gel for a slightly softer saddle for 
 long rides (emphasis on slightly). Steel rails, measures 249mm long and 
 163mm wide. Full specs on the Terry site here. $60 plus shipping (I 
 originally paid $82)
 
 
 
>>> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

['Joel S' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Very nice Jason, I had 2 Roads, one in ‘97 (a 53cm)the other in ‘2000 (a 
54cm which was probablt right) . An AR in ‘99 or so and a Custom in ‘2002 
or so (a 56cm that Grant measured me for). Also a Saluki (56cm but too bid) 
 then 2 Bleriots, (55cm’s) one was going to live in Brasil.   I bought a 
Ram frame before that but never built it up realizing after the Saluki it 
would be too big (hence the Bleriot).  I bought an Atlantis 2 summers ago 
but sold it quickly and got a Hillborne.  I have a ‘54cm Saluki frame 
coming in and then the last of my 2 Bleriot frames will go up for sale. 
 Rivendells just seem to be good for my back so I stay with them. Douglas 
Brooks many years ago saw a post I had made on a bike forum about my back 
and steered me to Rivendell and helped me over the years a great deal.  
Nice to see the timeline. 
On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:04:14 PM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:

> Yes the Road was semi custom, while the standard had fixed sizes.  The 
> supplier of dropouts changed between them and the TT went from level to 
> upsloped.  The HT could be normal or extended on the Road but was only 
> extended on the standard. The extended HT continued in the later 
> Rambouillet too, which descended from the Long Low. 
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 27, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Nice work, Jason!
>
>
> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a 
> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>
> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've only 
> ever seen two of them. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
>> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
>> MIT batch rolled in?  
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>>
>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>>
>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
 comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
 "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
 was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
 customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - 
 with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
 have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
 insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
 long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
 the 
 bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.


 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
MIT batch rolled in?  

On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 3/10 
> to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>
> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as different 
> bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 lineup, was the 
> Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? Should I include 
> this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road was the cheapest 
> of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>
> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>
>
>  
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment 
>> is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery 
>> bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort 
>> of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - 
>> exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no 
>> design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an 
>> actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
>> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the 
>> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
 as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
 veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
 moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
 upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  

 I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
 so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
 omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
 some 
 of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
 model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
 to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
 takes.  

 Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
 left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
 relevant; 
 I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
 ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
 research so far. 

  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]




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Re: [RBW] FS: Brooks B68, Terry Liberator X Gel Saddles

[Pancake]

Hi Emily,
The "short" B68 apparently measures:
Length: 230mm
Width: 200mm
Though some sites list it at 235mm x 205mm. 

Saddles both look to be in great shape - good luck with the sale. 
Abe


On Friday, 26 November 2021 at 20:11:38 UTC-8 Emily Guise wrote:

> Hey all, my apologies, I totally forgot to say that the B68 is the shorter 
> S model, not the regular length. 
>
> Emily
>
> On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 7:15:57 PM UTC-8 kay...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi! Is the B68 still for sale?
>>
>> On Nov 26, 2021, at 8:21 PM, Emily Guise  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hello friends! After trying a bunch of saddles, I've finally found some 
>> that work for me. Sadly, that doesn't include these two, so they're up for 
>> sale. Both are lightly used and in excellent shape, with their original 
>> packaging for each. Buyer would pay shipping costs. Lots of photos of both 
>> saddles here 
>> 
>> .
>>
>> If interested, email me off list at emilykguise (at) gmail (dot) com. 
>> Thanks!
>>
>> *Black Brooks B68 Imperial.* This is NOS. I put two light coats of 
>> Obenauf's on it but it is definitely not broken in as my butt can attest. 
>> Textured leather top, steel rails, bag loops. Measures 260mm long and 210mm 
>> wide. $75 plus shipping (I originally paid $95)
>>
>> *Terry Liberator X Gel.* Such a nice saddle but just too narrow for me. 
>> Synthetic cover with a little bit of gel for a slightly softer saddle for 
>> long rides (emphasis on slightly). Steel rails, measures 249mm long and 
>> 163mm wide. Full specs on the Terry site here 
>> . $60 plus shipping (I 
>> originally paid $82)
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/376e5c88-5835-4a3d-ae9a-0c136ba9ee29n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 3/10 
to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  

I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as different 
bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 lineup, was the 
Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? Should I include 
this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road was the cheapest 
of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 

I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
(heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 


 

On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:

> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment 
> is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery 
> bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort 
> of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - 
> exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no 
> design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an 
> actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the 
> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
>>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
>>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
>>> upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>>>
>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
>>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
>>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
>>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
>>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
>>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>>> takes.  
>>>
>>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
>>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
>>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
>>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
>>> research so far. 
>>>
>>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[iamkeith]

Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment is 
that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery bike," 
which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort of' a 
prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - exactly 
the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no design input 
from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an actual model 
name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them insignificant either, 
as they were the experience that led to the current long chainstay, longer 
top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the bosco.  Kind of key to 
understanding the whole evolution.


On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards 
>> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>> takes.  
>>
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
>> research so far. 
>>
>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving rides? and a Platy goes on 1st cruise

[JAS]

It looks like all Platy owners need to get a pair of mittens (or at least 
1/2 of a pair) so we are properly outfitted for the secret Platy Salute.  
I'm going to get right on it!  Must they be plaid?  Love the salute 
idea...it's so unique and sly; others won't know what the heck we're doing. 

#RivSisters,
Joyce

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 10:01:46 AM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote:

> Got up early and headed out after six to ride out to the Point where the 
> Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers become the Ohio River.
>
> Short Thanksgiving Ride. 
>
> Will consider taking the brew kit next time, otherwise a perfect lead in 
> to the rest of the day's festivities.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
> On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 6:55:40 PM UTC-5 Yankeebird wrote:
>
>> Anyone get any nice Thanksgiving rides in yesterday? Care to share?!
>>
>> We took a nice ride along the East Branch of the Westfield River in 
>> Chesterfield, MA. 12 miles roundtrip on an old truck road. Picnic on a 
>> sandbar. Probably picked up some ticks too! I've never been here, I have no 
>> real connection to MA, and it was, dare I say, gorges? (nyuk nyuk nyuk, 
>> with apologies to Ithaca) Someone inaugurated their Platypus on the ride as 
>> well! Stupendous! Thanksgiving rides are the best.
>>
>> Yup, all drivetrain side down at Picnic Time. There was another bike but 
>> off frame. That's my Clem in the front and my older Surly CC with a Alfine 
>> 8 and Albatross bars that is now basically my brothers bike since he 
>> commandeered it from me two years ago and hasn't given it back:
>> [image: PXL_20211125_191837010.jpg]
>>
>> Proud new Platypus owner! "My wrists didn't hurt!" and "I can't believe I 
>> rode 12 miles over all those rocks and I feel fine today" means that we 
>> have achieved SUCCESS:
>> [image: PXL_20211125_192734966.jpg]
>>
>> Displaying the "International Signal for Saluting Fellow Platypus Riders:"
>> [image: PXL_20211125_193218705.jpg]
>>
>> Some scenery. I should have taken more pictures but we were riding and 
>> having a good time. No sense in ruining moments to stop. Live in the moment 
>> and all that. The bikes got good and muddy, as did our backsides. Wicked 
>> comfortable mounts for this type of riding. 
>> [image: PXL_20211125_194032671.jpg]
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving rides? and a Platy goes on 1st cruise

[ascpgh]

Got up early and headed out after six to ride out to the Point where the 
Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers become the Ohio River.

Short Thanksgiving Ride. 

Will consider taking the brew kit next time, otherwise a perfect lead in to 
the rest of the day's festivities.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 6:55:40 PM UTC-5 Yankeebird wrote:

> Anyone get any nice Thanksgiving rides in yesterday? Care to share?!
>
> We took a nice ride along the East Branch of the Westfield River in 
> Chesterfield, MA. 12 miles roundtrip on an old truck road. Picnic on a 
> sandbar. Probably picked up some ticks too! I've never been here, I have no 
> real connection to MA, and it was, dare I say, gorges? (nyuk nyuk nyuk, 
> with apologies to Ithaca) Someone inaugurated their Platypus on the ride as 
> well! Stupendous! Thanksgiving rides are the best.
>
> Yup, all drivetrain side down at Picnic Time. There was another bike but 
> off frame. That's my Clem in the front and my older Surly CC with a Alfine 
> 8 and Albatross bars that is now basically my brothers bike since he 
> commandeered it from me two years ago and hasn't given it back:
> [image: PXL_20211125_191837010.jpg]
>
> Proud new Platypus owner! "My wrists didn't hurt!" and "I can't believe I 
> rode 12 miles over all those rocks and I feel fine today" means that we 
> have achieved SUCCESS:
> [image: PXL_20211125_192734966.jpg]
>
> Displaying the "International Signal for Saluting Fellow Platypus Riders:"
> [image: PXL_20211125_193218705.jpg]
>
> Some scenery. I should have taken more pictures but we were riding and 
> having a good time. No sense in ruining moments to stop. Live in the moment 
> and all that. The bikes got good and muddy, as did our backsides. Wicked 
> comfortable mounts for this type of riding. 
> [image: PXL_20211125_194032671.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thanksgiving rides? and a Platy goes on 1st cruise

[Leah Peterson]

Yankeebird, 

You dodged a bullet by not giving up on that Clem! I suffered with the extended 
front end problem too (I had a thread that got a LOT of participation over this 
issue) but once I got it dialed in with an 8 cm stem it is fantastic. That blue 
Clem will never be for sale. Ever ever ever. And like you, I have the Rivendell 
mixte and the Clem and I so agree that there are uses for BOTH. (By my count of 
people who have both it is: you, Joyce, Junie, Emily, Sofiya, Grant, and 
me.)They feel like totally different machines to me, and I get joy out of 
riding both. I park them next to each other in the garage just glancing at them 
on my way by fills me with happiness. They are SO beautiful. 

I’m thrilled for your friend and her new Platypus. It really is such a 
wonderful bike. Rare like its namesake, it’s a treat to see Platy Posts. Will 
from Rivendell got his Platypus built up and it’s posted on the News section of 
the Rivendell website. Hope we get to see more of these rare creatures; the 
next run of them is going to be a much greater number.

L

> On Nov 27, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Yankeebird  wrote:
> 
> Leah,
> She secured her Platypus during the initial offering, but due to 
> Circumstances Beyond Her Control it sat unused for many months- but we are 
> here now, and thankful! 
> This is her second Riv. She had a 51 AHH but it was actually a bit small, 
> despite all the assurances of the WC team. It seems that the older Riv 
> philosophy of sizing up if close to two sizes still applies despite the new 
> geometries. Additionally, she did not like the 650b wheel size. The AHH went 
> off to a good home on a farm somewhere and she got the 700cc 55cm Platypus. 
> The Platypus solved many problems and it was love at first ride! The location 
> of the bag means she doesn't have to fully dismount to access things, she 
> likes it there better, and unlike basket, rain protection and no hardware!
> 
> Interestingly enough this was only my second "longer" ride on the Clem... 
> I've been discouraged on the bike since it came with the new sneaky "Extended 
> Front End" but with a short DirtDrop it's really come into its own on the old 
> dirt roads of New England. I *almost* sold it a few months back! So glad I 
> didn't! While there is overlap between the Cheviot and Clem, they both do 
> certain things much better than the other. It's nice to have the operational 
> spread.
> 
> Phenomenal bike, that Platypus. 
> 
>> On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 11:22:18 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> The Platypus salute is so awesome 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 6:04:25 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>> Oh, this warms my post-turkey Thanksgiving heart. A Clem AND a Platy and 
>>> #RivSisters and a new Platy owner salute. Way to make my night! Since this 
>>> Platy is on its first cruise, I’m curious where your friend found it. They 
>>> are so, so rare. I’ve been keeping an eye out a couple of people just 
>>> pining for the enigmatic and coveted Rivendell Platypus. I’m so glad your 
>>> friend found her very own. Is this her first Rivendell?
>>> 
>>> Also, I have never ever seen a Saddlesack put on the handlebars! Very 
>>> creative, and it looks like it will work great. 
>>> Leah
>>> 
 On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 3:55:40 PM UTC-8 Yankeebird wrote:
 Anyone get any nice Thanksgiving rides in yesterday? Care to share?!
 
 We took a nice ride along the East Branch of the Westfield River in 
 Chesterfield, MA. 12 miles roundtrip on an old truck road. Picnic on a 
 sandbar. Probably picked up some ticks too! I've never been here, I have 
 no real connection to MA, and it was, dare I say, gorges? (nyuk nyuk nyuk, 
 with apologies to Ithaca) Someone inaugurated their Platypus on the ride 
 as well! Stupendous! Thanksgiving rides are the best.
 
 Yup, all drivetrain side down at Picnic Time. There was another bike but 
 off frame. That's my Clem in the front and my older Surly CC with a Alfine 
 8 and Albatross bars that is now basically my brothers bike since he 
 commandeered it from me two years ago and hasn't given it back:
 
 
 Proud new Platypus owner! "My wrists didn't hurt!" and "I can't believe I 
 rode 12 miles over all those rocks and I feel fine today" means that we 
 have achieved SUCCESS:
 
 
 Displaying the "International Signal for Saluting Fellow Platypus Riders:"
 
 
 Some scenery. I should have taken more pictures but we were riding and 
 having a good time. No sense in ruining moments to stop. Live in the 
 moment and all that. The bikes got good and muddy, as did our backsides. 
 Wicked comfortable mounts for this type of riding. 
 
 
 
> 
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> 

[RBW] Re: New Craigslist/others thread

[Joe Grandia]

60cm Rambouillet for $1,250. Looks really clean. To far away from me, 
otherwise I might be tempted.

https://flagstaff.craigslist.org/bik/d/flagstaff-rivendell-rambouillet/7395451836.html

Joe
On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 6:39:59 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That seller has a nice '93 Bridgestone RB-1 frame, too, $300. Says 54cm 
> C-to-C, I believe it's a 56 per the catalog. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 6:25:36 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> 51cm SOMA San Marcos frame in San Francisco. "Rare" is accurate, these 
>> seemed kinda plentiful for a a few years then disappeared.
>>
>>
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/alameda-rare-51cm-rivendell-soma-san/7412247669.html
>> On Tuesday, September 28, 2021 at 4:04:17 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> 62cm Sam
>>>
>>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/petaluma-62cm-sam-hillborne-new/7385309583.html
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving rides? and a Platy goes on 1st cruise

[Yankeebird]

Leah,
She secured her Platypus during the initial offering, but due to 
Circumstances Beyond Her Control it sat unused for many months- but we are 
here now, and thankful! 
This is her second Riv. She had a 51 AHH but it was actually a bit small, 
despite all the assurances of the WC team. It seems that the older Riv 
philosophy of sizing up if close to two sizes still applies despite the new 
geometries. Additionally, she did not like the 650b wheel size. The AHH 
went off to a good home on a farm somewhere and she got the 700cc 55cm 
Platypus. The Platypus solved many problems and it was love at first ride! 
The location of the bag means she doesn't have to fully dismount to access 
things, she likes it there better, and unlike basket, rain protection and 
no hardware!

Interestingly enough this was only my second "longer" ride on the Clem... 
I've been discouraged on the bike since it came with the new sneaky 
"Extended Front End" but with a short DirtDrop it's really come into its 
own on the old dirt roads of New England. I *almost* sold it a few months 
back! So glad I didn't! While there is overlap between the Cheviot and 
Clem, they both do certain things much better than the other. It's nice to 
have the operational spread.

Phenomenal bike, that Platypus. 

On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 11:22:18 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> The Platypus salute is so awesome 
>
>
> On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 6:04:25 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh, this warms my post-turkey Thanksgiving heart. A Clem AND a Platy and 
>> #RivSisters and a new Platy owner salute. Way to make my night! Since this 
>> Platy is on its first cruise, I’m curious where your friend found it. They 
>> are so, so rare. I’ve been keeping an eye out a couple of people just 
>> pining for the enigmatic and coveted Rivendell Platypus. I’m so glad your 
>> friend found her very own. Is this her first Rivendell?
>>
>> Also, I have never ever seen a Saddlesack put on the handlebars! Very 
>> creative, and it looks like it will work great. 
>> Leah
>>
>> On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 3:55:40 PM UTC-8 Yankeebird wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone get any nice Thanksgiving rides in yesterday? Care to share?!
>>>
>>> We took a nice ride along the East Branch of the Westfield River in 
>>> Chesterfield, MA. 12 miles roundtrip on an old truck road. Picnic on a 
>>> sandbar. Probably picked up some ticks too! I've never been here, I have no 
>>> real connection to MA, and it was, dare I say, gorges? (nyuk nyuk nyuk, 
>>> with apologies to Ithaca) Someone inaugurated their Platypus on the ride as 
>>> well! Stupendous! Thanksgiving rides are the best.
>>>
>>> Yup, all drivetrain side down at Picnic Time. There was another bike but 
>>> off frame. That's my Clem in the front and my older Surly CC with a Alfine 
>>> 8 and Albatross bars that is now basically my brothers bike since he 
>>> commandeered it from me two years ago and hasn't given it back:
>>> [image: PXL_20211125_191837010.jpg]
>>>
>>> Proud new Platypus owner! "My wrists didn't hurt!" and "I can't believe 
>>> I rode 12 miles over all those rocks and I feel fine today" means that we 
>>> have achieved SUCCESS:
>>> [image: PXL_20211125_192734966.jpg]
>>>
>>> Displaying the "International Signal for Saluting Fellow Platypus 
>>> Riders:"
>>> [image: PXL_20211125_193218705.jpg]
>>>
>>> Some scenery. I should have taken more pictures but we were riding and 
>>> having a good time. No sense in ruining moments to stop. Live in the moment 
>>> and all that. The bikes got good and muddy, as did our backsides. Wicked 
>>> comfortable mounts for this type of riding. 
>>> [image: PXL_20211125_194032671.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Fullylugged]

Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
Standard, I think by '96.

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, as 
> well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards 
> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>
> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you so 
> I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
> takes.  
>
> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
> research so far. 
>
>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jared Wilson]

Nice work Jason.
On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 11:45:44 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, as 
> well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards 
> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>
> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you so 
> I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
> takes.  
>
> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
> research so far. 
>
>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>
>
>

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