Re: [RBW] rack for Wald 139

[Luke Hendrickson]

John-

That’s a great idea, especially since I hate using zip-ties. Do you ever 
have any basket shimmy where it moves around from being on rough terrain? I 
used some prototype straps from Matt at Pass & Stow to secure this basket 
to a five rail I have of his and it did that a lot. Admittedly, those were 
cloth rather than the rubber of Voilé straps.

Luke in San Francisco

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 7:38:44 PM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:

> After looking at Luke's basket setup, I was wondering if anyone else has 
> experienced their rack breaking apart due to the attachment with zip ties? 
> The wires in the base of my first Wald broke in many places, and I believe 
> it was the combination of rough riding and the zip tie attachments. 
>
> Since this first basket I have used Voile straps to attach my baskets to a 
> RBW52F on my Hunq and a mini-front 32F on the Atlantis. As a result the 
> racks still take the same abuse but no longer break. I'm guessing this has 
> to do with a little bit more flexibility in the Voile straps.
>
> Anyway, perhaps this might be a PSA of sorts. 
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 2:19:50 PM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> [image: image.jpg]
>>
>> Revisiting this. I second the choice of a Lucas and don’t think a narrow 
>> platform need be prohibitive. I just snagged a NOS Nitto Highrider (35F). I 
>> opted to zip-tie some 400mm Nitto rack struts along the bottom if my Wald 
>> to deal with that. Just a thought. 
>>
>> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 8:49:52 AM UTC-7 clcocea...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I use the Sunlite and the Soma Champs Elysees for my 139. 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 7:29 PM J Schwartz  wrote:
>>>
 Greetings
 I'm interested in racking my Wald 139 big basket and am curious what 
 ppl are using for a rack.
 I just got an email that the basket rack is back in stock at RBW, and 
 I'm considering just buying it but I'm really just not onboard with 
 spending $288 on a front rack despite how well it's made and special it 
 is..  I may pull the trigger on it anyway but wanted to check here to see 
 what users of the 139 are doing to attach it to the fronts of their bikes.
 I already have an old Nitto R14 "Top Rack" that I know some people have 
 used in the front and zipped a 139 on top.  Mine is older and doesn't have 
 any diving board provisions so it's only 4 struts but I assume it's strong 
 enough if installed well.   My intention was to use that rack on the rear 
 of the bike though.
 Any suggestions for a support for the 139 that isn't $288?
 thanks
 JS

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 .

>>>

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Re: [RBW] rack for Wald 139

[John Rinker]

After looking at Luke's basket setup, I was wondering if anyone else has 
experienced their rack breaking apart due to the attachment with zip ties? 
The wires in the base of my first Wald broke in many places, and I believe 
it was the combination of rough riding and the zip tie attachments. 

Since this first basket I have used Voile straps to attach my baskets to a 
RBW52F on my Hunq and a mini-front 32F on the Atlantis. As a result the 
racks still take the same abuse but no longer break. I'm guessing this has 
to do with a little bit more flexibility in the Voile straps.

Anyway, perhaps this might be a PSA of sorts. 

Cheers, John

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 2:19:50 PM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> [image: image.jpg]
>
> Revisiting this. I second the choice of a Lucas and don’t think a narrow 
> platform need be prohibitive. I just snagged a NOS Nitto Highrider (35F). I 
> opted to zip-tie some 400mm Nitto rack struts along the bottom if my Wald 
> to deal with that. Just a thought. 
>
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 8:49:52 AM UTC-7 clcocea...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I use the Sunlite and the Soma Champs Elysees for my 139. 
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 7:29 PM J Schwartz  wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings
>>> I'm interested in racking my Wald 139 big basket and am curious what ppl 
>>> are using for a rack.
>>> I just got an email that the basket rack is back in stock at RBW, and 
>>> I'm considering just buying it but I'm really just not onboard with 
>>> spending $288 on a front rack despite how well it's made and special it 
>>> is..  I may pull the trigger on it anyway but wanted to check here to see 
>>> what users of the 139 are doing to attach it to the fronts of their bikes.
>>> I already have an old Nitto R14 "Top Rack" that I know some people have 
>>> used in the front and zipped a 139 on top.  Mine is older and doesn't have 
>>> any diving board provisions so it's only 4 struts but I assume it's strong 
>>> enough if installed well.   My intention was to use that rack on the rear 
>>> of the bike though.
>>> Any suggestions for a support for the 139 that isn't $288?
>>> thanks
>>> JS
>>>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Atlantis touch up Testors Paint available

[Eliot Balogh]

eBay has 1 left

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126048694312?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=gxTiJL1hSVO=4429486=pELjEbQVQ2m=_ver=artemis=COPY


On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 8:28 AM  wrote:

> Gosh DARN that was quick. There were three when I posted and I bought mine
> last night.
> Hopefully if someone nabbed them all they’ll share here.
>
> On Jun 30, 2023, at 08:16, Eliot Balogh  wrote:
>
> 
> Out of stock :(
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 8:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Awhile back there was some chatter about this discontinued color of
>> Testors paint, 2135.
>> I just bought a bottle from this eBay seller. Seems they have a couple
>> more. No affiliation to seller nor can I speak to the condition or quality.
>>
>> Liz in Sacramento
>>
>> 
>> Model Master 1/2oz Enamel Paint-Various Colors Rare+Common |
>> NOS/Sealed/NIOB | eBay
>> 
>> ebay.com
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
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>> .
>>
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[RBW] Re: ISO: 59cm’ish Appaloosa or Hunqapillar frame & fork

[zc]

thx jared...fingers crossed!

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:21:45 AM UTC-6 jaredwilson wrote:

> I also have a 89cm PBH, tried to make a 62cm Hunq work and couldn't do it.
>
> Best of luck with your search, it'll be worth the hunt.
>
> jared
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:57:43 AM UTC-7 zc wrote:
>
>> Hi folks-
>> Long time lurker, many times buyer (thank you!), but first time public 
>> poster- 
>> I’m in search of an Appaloosa or Hunqapillar frame/fork to suit my PBH of 
>> 89.
>> Not too hung up on cosmetics but please no dents or rust. 
>> Please let me know if anyone is holding. E-cash in hand!
>> Cheers!
>> zach in colorado
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Mountain Works Elf Pouch

[Kim H.]

As a suggestion for something to hold you over until the RIV MOUNTAIN WORKS 
ELF pouches return to being in stock again, I found a couple of pen and 
pencil holders for school supplies from Walmart that work real well, both 
for a tool pouch and another holding small items, like a tire tube, cell 
phone, snacks, etc.

https://www.walmart.com/browse/office-supplies/pencil-pouches/1229749_9412206_8443517_8299765?action=SignIn=true

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Casual-Gray-Large-Pencil-Cases-for-Students-Back-to-School-Stationery-Organizer-for-School-Office-Supplies/766051509

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 2:42:30 PM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’ve been waiting for these to come back but stupidly wasn’t signed up for 
> the back on stock notifications (I am now!) and missed this last restock. 
> They look super duper handy!
>
> On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 5:04 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Can also recommend - since the Elf Pouch is out of stock again - the 
>> FlatSack. I don't actually use mine on the bike (it would fit in my Medium 
>> SaddleSack); I'm a transit bus driver and put paperwork, hole punch, Cliff 
>> Bar and my car key in it. Super handy! 
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/sackville-flatsack-olive
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 10:18:13 AM UTC-7 jaredwilson wrote:
>>
>>> I'll second the usefulness of these little bags, I take mine with my 
>>> daily and love having my small items contained in one location.
>>>
>>> 10/10 recommend, congrats to those who got one before they sold out, and 
>>> when they come back I highly recommend picking one up.
>>>
>>> jared
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:58:09 AM UTC-7 rockthr...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 These weren't announced as 'back in stock', but I just found them on 
 the website. I got one from the first batch and find it very useful. Belt 
 loops on the back to make it a very nice hip pack for carrying the core 
 essentials. 


 https://www.rivbike.com/products/rivendell-mountain-works-elf-pouch-belt-pouch


 *disclaimer - if this post goes up after the bags sell out it's because 
 I'm still a newb and my content gets reviewed before.

>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Mountain Works Elf Pouch

[Ted W]

I’ve been waiting for these to come back but stupidly wasn’t signed up for
the back on stock notifications (I am now!) and missed this last restock.
They look super duper handy!

On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 5:04 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Can also recommend - since the Elf Pouch is out of stock again - the
> FlatSack. I don't actually use mine on the bike (it would fit in my Medium
> SaddleSack); I'm a transit bus driver and put paperwork, hole punch, Cliff
> Bar and my car key in it. Super handy!
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/sackville-flatsack-olive
>
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 10:18:13 AM UTC-7 jaredwilson wrote:
>
>> I'll second the usefulness of these little bags, I take mine with my
>> daily and love having my small items contained in one location.
>>
>> 10/10 recommend, congrats to those who got one before they sold out, and
>> when they come back I highly recommend picking one up.
>>
>> jared
>>
>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:58:09 AM UTC-7 rockthr...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> These weren't announced as 'back in stock', but I just found them on the
>>> website. I got one from the first batch and find it very useful. Belt loops
>>> on the back to make it a very nice hip pack for carrying the core
>>> essentials.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/rivendell-mountain-works-elf-pouch-belt-pouch
>>>
>>>
>>> *disclaimer - if this post goes up after the bags sell out it's because
>>> I'm still a newb and my content gets reviewed before.
>>>
>> --
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> .
>
-- 
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[RBW] Re: Riv Mountain Works Elf Pouch

[Joe Bernard]

Can also recommend - since the Elf Pouch is out of stock again - the 
FlatSack. I don't actually use mine on the bike (it would fit in my Medium 
SaddleSack); I'm a transit bus driver and put paperwork, hole punch, Cliff 
Bar and my car key in it. Super handy! 

https://www.rivbike.com/products/sackville-flatsack-olive


On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 10:18:13 AM UTC-7 jaredwilson wrote:

> I'll second the usefulness of these little bags, I take mine with my daily 
> and love having my small items contained in one location.
>
> 10/10 recommend, congrats to those who got one before they sold out, and 
> when they come back I highly recommend picking one up.
>
> jared
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:58:09 AM UTC-7 rockthr...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> These weren't announced as 'back in stock', but I just found them on the 
>> website. I got one from the first batch and find it very useful. Belt loops 
>> on the back to make it a very nice hip pack for carrying the core 
>> essentials. 
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/rivendell-mountain-works-elf-pouch-belt-pouch
>>
>>
>> *disclaimer - if this post goes up after the bags sell out it's because 
>> I'm still a newb and my content gets reviewed before.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Jason Fuller]

My take, in point form: 

- Any bike is at risk of theft or vandalism in this situation, no matter 
how 'perfectly suited' to the job it is. 
- That said, the Clem L is definitely less attractive to thieves than a 
Surly, despite being better in our eyes. Surlys are much better known. 
- If you are comfortable with a real risk of losing it to theft, and want 
to see it live its life, I'd go for it
- If it's painful to think of it being stolen, I'd hold it back and buy a 
$300 single speed for its disposable nature

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 10:00:07 UTC-7 dajo...@gmail.com wrote:

> Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty 
> of time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 
> 20+ years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall 
> seeing that nice of a bike on campus.
>
> David Jones 
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> wrote:
>
>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
>> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
>> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
>> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>
>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
>> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
>> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
>> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
>> saying… 
>>
>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>
>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>
>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
>> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
>> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>> through undergrad together.
>>
>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
>> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>> Leah
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA: Thomson 26.8 Masterpiece Clearance

[Jack Newcomb]

Thanks for the insight Garth! You're totally correct of course, Riv should 
be checking this stuff. I've already talked to them about another quality 
issue I had with the frame, and they took care of me with that, so I didn't 
want to keep complaining, but I should let them know. I'll take some 
measurements and figure out how oversize it is first. I've been a 
fan/supporter of Riv for a very long time and to have these issues on my 
first frame has been a bummer for sure, but I'm confident they can be fixed.

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 10:47:26 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Reaming a 28.6 OD seat tube for a 27.2 ID seatpost is no big deal. 27.2 is 
> by far the most common and frequent seatpost size for all 28.6 OD steel 
> frames and been that way since I can remember, at least the early 80's. 
> It's not going to compromise anything or put the rider or the frame in any 
> danger. My '83 Stumpjumper took a 26.0 post, talk about overkill, as it was 
> a straight gauge tubing tank of a frame. 
>
> If I bought a frame from Rive that wasn't to spec the first thing I'd do 
> is call them. It's neither normal or acceptable. These things are supposed 
> to be taken care of at the time of the frame build, but it's also Riv's 
> responsibility to see that the shop is doing their job as contracted. Since 
> Riv is point of contact with the buyer, it's up to them to make it right. 
> That every frame is not checked is unbelievable, especially considering the 
> cost of the frames. Even most local bike shops will do that as part of 
> basic complimentary frame prep on new frames sold if requested.  I had a BB 
> issue with my custom Franklin in 1999 for which the builder offered to send 
> me his BB threading tool since I didn't have one. While I opted to take it 
> to a shop in Pittsburgh that I could do it myself at, I surely appreciated 
> the gesture. 
>
> Kalloy posts are really cheap. They don't use very beefy bolts either. 
> They could make the radius style post Riv often includes to be a whole lot 
> more slip resistant if the top of the post upon which the clamp sanwich 
> rests was bead blasted rather than slick. I have two vintage single bolt 
> Campy seatposts from the 80's. The Nuovo Record(NR) has the top of the post 
> bead blasted, the Super Record(SR) is polished. Guess which one slips, and 
> which one doesn't. NR for the win !  There's supposedly friction pastes 
> around for carbon fiber, but I don't know if they're applicable to aluminum 
> or not. If they are, I'd surely try some under the clamp sandwich, on the 
> top part of the post upon which it rests. Then it can't rotate so easy. 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Suntour Power Thumb shifters, Deerhead shifters, or Rivendell silver thumb shifters

[Luke Hendrickson]

Here ya go, Igor :) 


On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 5:15:57 AM UTC-7 Igor wrote:

> Thank you 

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[RBW] Re: PSA: Thomson 26.8 Masterpiece Clearance

[Garth]

Reaming a 28.6 OD seat tube for a 27.2 ID seatpost is no big deal. 27.2 is 
by far the most common and frequent seatpost size for all 28.6 OD steel 
frames and been that way since I can remember, at least the early 80's. 
It's not going to compromise anything or put the rider or the frame in any 
danger. My '83 Stumpjumper took a 26.0 post, talk about overkill, as it was 
a straight gauge tubing tank of a frame. 

If I bought a frame from Rive that wasn't to spec the first thing I'd do is 
call them. It's neither normal or acceptable. These things are supposed to 
be taken care of at the time of the frame build, but it's also Riv's 
responsibility to see that the shop is doing their job as contracted. Since 
Riv is point of contact with the buyer, it's up to them to make it right. 
That every frame is not checked is unbelievable, especially considering the 
cost of the frames. Even most local bike shops will do that as part of 
basic complimentary frame prep on new frames sold if requested.  I had a BB 
issue with my custom Franklin in 1999 for which the builder offered to send 
me his BB threading tool since I didn't have one. While I opted to take it 
to a shop in Pittsburgh that I could do it myself at, I surely appreciated 
the gesture. 

Kalloy posts are really cheap. They don't use very beefy bolts either. They 
could make the radius style post Riv often includes to be a whole lot more 
slip resistant if the top of the post upon which the clamp sanwich rests 
was bead blasted rather than slick. I have two vintage single bolt Campy 
seatposts from the 80's. The Nuovo Record(NR) has the top of the post bead 
blasted, the Super Record(SR) is polished. Guess which one slips, and which 
one doesn't. NR for the win !  There's supposedly friction pastes around 
for carbon fiber, but I don't know if they're applicable to aluminum or 
not. If they are, I'd surely try some under the clamp sandwich, on the top 
part of the post upon which it rests. Then it can't rotate so easy. 



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[RBW] Re: ISO: 59cm’ish Appaloosa or Hunqapillar frame & fork

[jaredwilson]

I also have a 89cm PBH, tried to make a 62cm Hunq work and couldn't do it.

Best of luck with your search, it'll be worth the hunt.

jared

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:57:43 AM UTC-7 zc wrote:

> Hi folks-
> Long time lurker, many times buyer (thank you!), but first time public 
> poster- 
> I’m in search of an Appaloosa or Hunqapillar frame/fork to suit my PBH of 
> 89.
> Not too hung up on cosmetics but please no dents or rust. 
> Please let me know if anyone is holding. E-cash in hand!
> Cheers!
> zach in colorado
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Mountain Works Elf Pouch

[jaredwilson]

I'll second the usefulness of these little bags, I take mine with my daily 
and love having my small items contained in one location.

10/10 recommend, congrats to those who got one before they sold out, and 
when they come back I highly recommend picking one up.

jared

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:58:09 AM UTC-7 rockthr...@gmail.com wrote:

> These weren't announced as 'back in stock', but I just found them on the 
> website. I got one from the first batch and find it very useful. Belt loops 
> on the back to make it a very nice hip pack for carrying the core 
> essentials. 
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/rivendell-mountain-works-elf-pouch-belt-pouch
>
>
> *disclaimer - if this post goes up after the bags sell out it's because 
> I'm still a newb and my content gets reviewed before.
>

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[RBW] Re: Have you tried MKS Seahorse pedals

[Paul Richardson]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I'm not 100% sold on the huge pedal thing that seems to be quite prevalent, 
and the Seahorse seemed like a nice way to split the difference.  But 
Brendan your negative experience is especially helpful.  Slippy is no 
bueno, no no no.  

I've seen the Tacos, and had the pleasure of playing with a pair of 
Bubblys, which seem to spin simply by being looked at...man what did they 
grease those bearings with, wowee zowee.  The pricepoint ($100 Bubblys vs. 
$32 Seahorse, at bluelug) is also a consideration.

Still deciding if I'll toss a pair in the cart, but I'll offer my firsthand 
experience if I do.

thanks
paul
takoma park, md.

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[David Jones]

Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty of
time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 20+
years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall seeing
that nice of a bike on campus.

David Jones


On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses,
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who
> doesn’t ride, sigh).
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020,
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of
> saying…
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe,
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.”
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>
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> .
>

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[RBW] WTB - 59cm MTB riv frameset

[cody toth]

Hey all, 

After a long time I trhink I have reached the point where I am certain I 
would love to own a riv. A bluelug post with a beautiful orangew clem 
really caught my eye, and I am hoping to find either an older wolbis/clem 
in orange/silver or any generation of atlantis around the 59cm mark, with 
29" wheels.


Thanks y'all :)

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[RBW] FS: Big Late Summer Parts Dump: Nitto Handlebars, Rack, Derailleurs, Brakes, Etc.!

[Jordan Rosenblum]

Hi folks!

Moving along parts from the stash that haven't found a home. Cross-posted 
this with the iBob list, so forgive the redundancy if you are a dual reader.

Here we go top to bottom and left to right by category.

Prices include shipping from Portland, OR, and local pickup always awesome, 
too! Add 3% on top of the price if you would like PayPal buyer protection.

Parts are in very good condition unless there’s a condition report 
included. 

Also looking for a Bullmoose bar if folks are interested in trades/partial 
trades. 

I’ll try to stay on top of updating as things are sold. Grayed out stuff 
has already been claimed.

As always, posting photos is a nightmare, please see the link below.

Jordan in Portland, OR


*Photos Here 
*


*[image: IMG_2540.JPG]*

*Handlebars:*

Velo-Orange Klunkers: $50

Velo-Orange Crazy Bars: $50: these are the first generation with a 25.4 
clamp. Track grips included on the horns, as shown.

Velo-Orange porter bars: $25: Don’t think they make these any more

Riv Nitto Boscomoose: $170: TIG, wider 580 mm model

Riv Nitto Billie Bar: $100

Dajia Cycleworks Far Bar Handlebar: $40: 48 CM

*Stems:*

I measured these center of clamp to center of bolt along the top, and are 
approximate:

Nitto Technomic Deluxe: $35: Fair condition with a good amount of wear to 
the finish on side of stem. 85mm. 26 clamp. Shorter version.

Nitto Dynamic 11: $45: Good condition: 115mm. 26 clamp. 

IRD Jim stem with removable faceplate: $80. 90mm. Don’t know if this is the 
80 or 100 as listed on the Riv site.

SR Forged: free with purchase of another stem. 105mm. Almost identical to a 
Technomic by my eye.

Mystery stem: $25. 65mm. Little TIG welded shorty. Black cap on top. LONG 
column. Cutie.

*Not pictured: *New in packaging/unopened, Nitto FW30 face-plater Power 
stem in 80mm. $80: 
https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.html


*Cranks:*

Sugino RT triple: $45. Rust on bolts, otherwise very clean, minimal wear. 
170. 50/45/28

Shimano Deore XT: FC-M737: $40. I love these cranks—slender. Fair 
condition. Wear to rings, wear to anodization on arms and lots of 
scratches.  Pins and ramps look good. 175. 42/32/22.


*Brake calipers:*

DIA-Compe 980 Cantilevers Brand new, never mounted. Green anodized. Sold as 
a pair (front and back). $70.

Shimano Deore V brakes. BR-T610. Comes with salmon kool-stop pads with less 
than 100 miles on then. Dusty, but in excellent/near mint condition. Sold 
as a pair (front and back). $55. 

*Rear Derailleurs:*

MicroShift XCD: 11-speed mountain. Nice one, with clutch. 100 miles on it. 
$45.


*Front derailleurs:*

Suntour Mountech. 28.6 band. $25.

Shimano 600. 34.9 band. Thin, cool band that’s flexible. $25.

Shimano 105 FD-5603. 34.9 band. Triple. $30.

MicroShift FD-R62. Double. 34.9 band. $30.

Shimano XTR. FD-M9020 H. 34.9 band. New in box. $50.

Shimano XT. FD-M785. Brand new. It’s TOP PULL. 34.9 band. $35.


*Cassettes:*

SunRace cassette. CS-MS3. Wide range 10-speed, 11-42. New in box. $40.

SunRace cassette. CS-M980. Wide range 9-speed. 11-40T. Super kinky! New in 
box, though I mangled the packaging. $30.

Shimano SLX CS-M7000-11. 11-42 T. 11 Speed. 100 miles on it. $50.

*Others:*

White Industries VBC outer Chainring. Brand new, never mounted. 46 tooth. 
(Would also trade for a 44 or 42). $70.

Nitto F-32 front rack. Near mint. No additional hardware. $110.

Shimano Dura-Ace 9 speed bar end pods. Mechanically good, cosmetically lots 
of scratches. With hardware shown. $30?

Chris King GripNut 1” black threaded headset. New take-off. $150.

*Saddles:*

Green Zebra turbo! $30?

Brooks Team Pro. Black with steel rails.  $120

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kaveh Askari]

I've ridden a Clem on a university campus in Michigan every day for several 
years. I've been working at colleges for 20 years, and this is my first 
non-beater that I lock up around campus. The risk has been worth the reward 
of making thousands of useful trips on such a dignified ride. 

That said, I lock it inside whenever I can during the day, and I almost 
never leave it out overnight. Like most universities, mine does have paid 
locking cages inside their parking garages. Those are totally safe, but 
they defeat the purpose of being able to zip around from one building to 
another (if you're on a big campus). 

Another thing to keep in mind: some campus bike racks are way safer than 
others. Most campuses have cameras everywhere. Maybe lock up in contained 
quads, with high visibility, where the traffic is only by foot or bike. 
It's good to avoid racks close to roads where someone can quickly hop out 
of a truck with an angle grinder or bolt cutters. 

--KA
 




 

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:48:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> What others have said
>
> BUT a Clem could go to college if...in an ideal world
>
> If he's living on-campus they're not going to fuss if he brings it inside 
> his room at night to avoid leaving it locked up outside and creating ample 
> opportrunity for theft...and maybe don't take the Clem bar-hopping
>
> If the college is car-free maybe they have some sort of infrastructure set 
> up for secure bike locking on campus...maybe there's some student-driven 
> bike valet system...or your son could find like-minded folks on-campus to 
> initiate something like that for secure lockup at the library or class 
> buildings. Where I live in Winnipeg, the University of Winnipeg even has 
> indoor locking facilities for a fee...but it's a downtown campus with a 
> small footprint; you can easily hoof it from class to class. A large state 
> campus, I imagine, not so much
>
> In the absence of things like this , I'm afraid , a stealth beater that's 
> actually fun to ride is the way to go
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:27:14 AM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> I'm going to join the majority and say don't send the Clem to college. 
>> IF* your boy needs a bike at school, buy a cheap hybrid, new or used. Bike 
>> shops are desperate to sell anything right now, and the used market is also 
>> oversaturated. 
>>
>> *It's been a long time since I was at college, but even as a bike loving 
>> kid, I didn't ride my bike to classes. Too much hassle, too much risk. It 
>> was easier to navigate crowded campus paths by walking, even though I had 
>> one or two bikes tucked into my tiny dorm room.
>>
>> Eric
>> Plain City, OH
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
>>> college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves 
>>> buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown 
>>> up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>>
>>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
>>> 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. 
>>> I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
>>> the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond 
>>> of saying… 
>>>
>>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>>
>>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>>
>>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know 

[RBW] Re: PSA: Thomson 26.8 Masterpiece Clearance

[Jack Newcomb]

I had the same issue as you Nick and felt the same frustration. I wasn't 
sure if the seatpost was the problem, so I picked up a Thomson (elite) to 
be sure, and it had the same issue. I eventually ended up snapping the 
binder bolt because the seatpost was slipping too much, but the slightly 
longer bolt seems to be doing the job of holding my extremely average body 
weight.

Reaming has crossed my mind and I know riv uses thicker walled tubing than 
most, but I still wanted to avoid it. How has it been holding up for you? 
Do you think 27.2 is possible? I would've much rather had that size from 
the get-go, I didn't realize how rare 26.8 is becoming.

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:15:36 AM UTC-7 Nick Payne wrote:

> I was a bit pissed off when I found on delivery that the latest Rivendell 
> frame I bought took a 26.8 seatpost. The three previous Riv frames I have 
> all use 27.2. And in fact, this latest frame wasn't even accurately sized 
> for 26.8 - the Kalloy seatpost that came with it, and which was a true 26.8 
> by my vernier calipers, was a slightly loose fit in the seat tube. So I 
> reamed the seat tube to 27.0 and used a 27.0 Nitto S83.
>
> Nick Payne
>

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[RBW] Riv Mountain Works Elf Pouch

[m f]

These weren't announced as 'back in stock', but I just found them on the 
website. I got one from the first batch and find it very useful. Belt loops 
on the back to make it a very nice hip pack for carrying the core 
essentials. 

https://www.rivbike.com/products/rivendell-mountain-works-elf-pouch-belt-pouch


*disclaimer - if this post goes up after the bags sell out it's because I'm 
still a newb and my content gets reviewed before.

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report + Film photos

[lyon...@gmail.com]

I am--I'll be riding the Ramble. I've been too intimidated to Scramble, but 
one of these years, I'm going to try it.

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:58:11 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:

> Thank you Josh, Kyle, and Chris!
>
> Adam, not sure yet but I would like to! I've been looking at their pics 
> from the Gorey hollows rides for the past few years and been wanting to 
> join but it seems like something always gets in the way. Might go ahead and 
> grab a registration and just hope I can make it happen. Are you gonna do 
> their 40 miler?
>
> -Stephen
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 2:54:18 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Too bad it was cut short but beautiful photos. 
>>
>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 6:14:52 AM UTC-4 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> sweet photos! keep shootin!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 7:58:44 PM UTC+2 lyon...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Stephen! Will you try again for Analog's October ride? It would be 
 great to see another Riv-person there (other than just me and Miggy).

 For the 4x4 this year, even Scott (who makes all the 5th Season bags 
 and rides across from Central Maine to get to Analog) got picked up in 
 White River Junction due to all the smoke, wind, and rain that was in the 
 air that weekend...

 Adam in Maine

>>>

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[RBW] WTB: Erlen bag support (Nitto 2.0 version)

[Danzem]

If anyone has one to sell I'd love to take if off your hands, also have a 
few other racks I could trade. Thanks!

Allen in SF

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[RBW] ISO: 59cm’ish Appaloosa or Hunqapillar frame & fork

[zc]

Hi folks-
Long time lurker, many times buyer (thank you!), but first time public 
poster- 
I’m in search of an Appaloosa or Hunqapillar frame/fork to suit my PBH of 
89.
Not too hung up on cosmetics but please no dents or rust. 
Please let me know if anyone is holding. E-cash in hand!
Cheers!
zach in colorado

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[John Dewey]

The outlier here. I just built myself some WI hubs— after years of XTR
silence I rather enjoy making a little noise.

And they’re so pretty.

Jock

On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 9:41 AM Mike  wrote:

> Hi--I recently splurged on an Onyx for my new Sam, and it is kind of life
> changing (my *riding* life anyway) how awesome it is. Which is good and
> bad, as now my other bicycles with very quiet vintage Deore hubs seem
> "loud".
> In terms of finding a local wheel builder--maybe not exactly the answer
> you're looking for, but I taught myself to lace wheels a number of years
> ago and it was really not nearly as difficult as I initially thought it
> would be.  Each wheel build gets easier than the previous, and it has now
> become meditative even. And its way cheaper as you can shop around for your
> own parts, either buying direct from manufacturer or finding stuff on
> eBay.  I feel like a lot of folks here gravitate towards nice components.
> For wheels in particular: nice hubs, nice rims, quality spokes (in exactly
> the correct length)...I've found that gets you like 75% of the way towards
> building a strong and true wheel.
>
> Happy and safe (and quiet) riding to all this weekend,
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 8:10:01 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Bones,
>> Thanks. That's good to know.
>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 8:07:11 AM UTC-4 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> I do not have a DT 240 but I do have most of the other ones listed:
>>> Silver, Deore, MI5, Onyx. I'm not a big fan of loud hubs and I found my MI5
>>> obnoxiously loud; I was having difficultly having conversations with my
>>> riding friends while coasting. I took the hub apart and applied a generous
>>> amount of Phil's Tenacious Oil and it now sounds like a different hub. Much
>>> much quieter and quite tolerable.
>>>
>>> Bones
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:59:43 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 The noise of the White Ind Mi5 does concern me to some degree. Curious
 does anyone have both a DT 240 and a White ind. Mi5 to compare the noise
 level? I've got a DT 240 on a bike and would rather nothing louder than
 that.

 On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:56:26 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> @Johnny, Keith: Thanks for the replies. I've had several wheel sets
> built by Rich at hands on wheels. I may go that route and shoot him an
> email. I'm pretty sure the wheels that I'm currently riding are from Rich.
>
> @Keith, Will, Garth: Not sure about the silver hubs. It'd think that
> if it were simply out of stock, it'd say "out of stock" just like half of
> the items on the Riv site. I had a silver hub on a Clem a few years ago 
> and
> liked it just fine. I was thinking of having the rear built with a Silver
> 36h but then didn't see em on the site. Odd.
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:39:37 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> There's little choice for quiet hubs so if you need 36 you may as
>> well go with Deore's. For myself having a quiet hub is non-negotiable, so
>> I've gone back to using threaded FW hubs for my future builds. The irony 
>> is
>> that for the 7 cogs I use there's a better selection of freewheels these
>> days than cassettes. Rich will build you fine wheels. I had him build a 
>> set
>> of Alex DM24 rims with Deore/Suntour hubs for me but I've never used 
>> them.
>> I also have 2 sets of Joe Young wheels. (He formerly built wheels for Riv
>> way beck when before Rich.) He's in Granbury Texas,
>> youngwheels.com I think. I still ride the first set he built in
>> 1999, and of course, they're as straight as an arrow.
>>
>> There's many things that Riv has that aren't on the menu as I think
>> they're busy enough as it is and don't have much time for extensive 
>> upkeep
>> of the website in totality. The "new" 7sp cassette hub was supposedly
>> coming sometime, but as for noise I'd be surprised if it was quiet. 
>> Shimano
>> is by their own words ditching most of their road and mtb groups in favor
>> of the deathly black "Ican'tremember" line of bike parts that supposed 
>> can
>> be used for road or mtb use. Of course, it was Shimano who messed things 
>> up
>> by dividing them in the first place with different cable pulls.
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Mike]

Hi--I recently splurged on an Onyx for my new Sam, and it is kind of life 
changing (my *riding* life anyway) how awesome it is. Which is good and 
bad, as now my other bicycles with very quiet vintage Deore hubs seem 
"loud".
In terms of finding a local wheel builder--maybe not exactly the answer 
you're looking for, but I taught myself to lace wheels a number of years 
ago and it was really not nearly as difficult as I initially thought it 
would be.  Each wheel build gets easier than the previous, and it has now 
become meditative even. And its way cheaper as you can shop around for your 
own parts, either buying direct from manufacturer or finding stuff on eBay. 
 I feel like a lot of folks here gravitate towards nice components.  For 
wheels in particular: nice hubs, nice rims, quality spokes (in exactly the 
correct length)...I've found that gets you like 75% of the way towards 
building a strong and true wheel.  

Happy and safe (and quiet) riding to all this weekend,

Mike


On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 8:10:01 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> Bones, 
> Thanks. That's good to know. 
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 8:07:11 AM UTC-4 Bones wrote:
>
>> I do not have a DT 240 but I do have most of the other ones listed: 
>> Silver, Deore, MI5, Onyx. I'm not a big fan of loud hubs and I found my MI5 
>> obnoxiously loud; I was having difficultly having conversations with my 
>> riding friends while coasting. I took the hub apart and applied a generous 
>> amount of Phil's Tenacious Oil and it now sounds like a different hub. Much 
>> much quieter and quite tolerable.
>>
>> Bones
>>
>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:59:43 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> The noise of the White Ind Mi5 does concern me to some degree. Curious 
>>> does anyone have both a DT 240 and a White ind. Mi5 to compare the noise 
>>> level? I've got a DT 240 on a bike and would rather nothing louder than 
>>> that. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:56:26 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 @Johnny, Keith: Thanks for the replies. I've had several wheel sets 
 built by Rich at hands on wheels. I may go that route and shoot him an 
 email. I'm pretty sure the wheels that I'm currently riding are from Rich. 

 @Keith, Will, Garth: Not sure about the silver hubs. It'd think that if 
 it were simply out of stock, it'd say "out of stock" just like half of the 
 items on the Riv site. I had a silver hub on a Clem a few years ago and 
 liked it just fine. I was thinking of having the rear built with a Silver 
 36h but then didn't see em on the site. Odd. 



 On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:39:37 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> There's little choice for quiet hubs so if you need 36 you may as well 
> go with Deore's. For myself having a quiet hub is non-negotiable, so I've 
> gone back to using threaded FW hubs for my future builds. The irony is 
> that 
> for the 7 cogs I use there's a better selection of freewheels these days 
> than cassettes. Rich will build you fine wheels. I had him build a set of 
> Alex DM24 rims with Deore/Suntour hubs for me but I've never used them. I 
> also have 2 sets of Joe Young wheels. (He formerly built wheels for Riv 
> way beck when before Rich.) He's in Granbury Texas, 
> youngwheels.com I think. I still ride the first set he built in 1999, 
> and of course, they're as straight as an arrow. 
>
> There's many things that Riv has that aren't on the menu as I think 
> they're busy enough as it is and don't have much time for extensive 
> upkeep 
> of the website in totality. The "new" 7sp cassette hub was supposedly 
> coming sometime, but as for noise I'd be surprised if it was quiet. 
> Shimano 
> is by their own words ditching most of their road and mtb groups in favor 
> of the deathly black "Ican'tremember" line of bike parts that supposed 
> can 
> be used for road or mtb use. Of course, it was Shimano who messed things 
> up 
> by dividing them in the first place with different cable pulls. 
>


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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Ted Durant]

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 3:14:34 PM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken 
seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike 
folks”. I


Be that as it may, the bike that was stolen from me in college was a 
Schwinn Typhoon. I'd rescued it from the tunnels (a nice feature at a 
college in MN) and put whitewalls and shiny chrome fenders on it.

Full disclosure, I think I forgot to lock it up that night.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA 

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[RBW] WTB: Suntour Power Thumb shifters, Deerhead shifters, or Rivendell silver thumb shifters

[Igor]

Thank you 

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Ryan]

Fortunately , Leah, you do have a year to think about this. I suspect, 
since you haven't definitely settled on which college your son is going to, 
a tour of the campuses is probably part of your plans. Once you settle on a 
college, I'm sure you'll visit it. When you're visiting maybe a trip to the 
student union center is in order where you may be able to suss out the 
local bike culture as these student centers address many aspects of student 
life outside of pure academia. It's hard to beat the Clem for its 
practicality. As others have said, the cost of   configuring a beater 
bought for a few hundred bucks with dynamos, fenders, carrying capacity, 
etc. can quickly add up. If his Clem is  insured (may need to buy a rider) 
, you do the pitlock thing, he can keep it in the dorm room , he's 
meticulous about locking it up and it's a bike-commuter friendly campus, 
maybe all will be well, if he really wants to take the Clem and is aware of 
the risk. Risk of theft goes up, of course, when it locked up for several 
hours after dark on or off-campus




On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:00:50 AM UTC-5 Jay LePree wrote:

> Hi Leah,
>
> I could not afford a car in graduate school at the University of 
> Wisconsin-Madison, so wound up with a Diamond back mountain bike my first 
> two years and then traded it in for a Specialized Triple Sirrus for my last 
> two years there.  I was OK with both bikes, but after having my saddle and 
> seatpost stolen on my Diamond back, I learned very quickly to install two 
> seat leashes.  My bikes were stored inside my apartment overnight, so I 
> overnight theft was not a concern.  I used a chain and a U-lock as that 
> often can frustrate theives as then need two tools to steal the bike.  I 
> would consider purchasing and installing Pitlock skewers to protect the 
> wheels.  I would be wary of mounting bags to the bike.  Those would be 
> easily stolen.  Baskets with torx nut hardware might be more theft proof.
>
> https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.php
>
> Jay LePree
> Demarest, NJ
> T LePree - 2020 ERAU - Commercial Pilot
> K. LePree 2023 Columbia U. - Financial Analyst
>
> That first walk past the high school, when all are away at school, will be 
> a shock to the system, but it is part of their lives and ours.  Milestones.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:37:53 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:
>
>> The current best value from Surly is the Cross Check, at $1100 for a 
>> complete.
>> -W
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:00:16 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as 
>>> they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the 
>>> Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play 
>>> anymore. 
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
 I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
 were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
 Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up 
 with 
 a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
 use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
 I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
 Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
 campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though 
 I 
 would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
 overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
 linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
 though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
 bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
 mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
 tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
 with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a 
 perfect 
 combo for campus riding.
 A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
 who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
 that's my 2¢.

 PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work

 On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Josh C]

Bones, 
Thanks. That's good to know. 
On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 8:07:11 AM UTC-4 Bones wrote:

> I do not have a DT 240 but I do have most of the other ones listed: 
> Silver, Deore, MI5, Onyx. I'm not a big fan of loud hubs and I found my MI5 
> obnoxiously loud; I was having difficultly having conversations with my 
> riding friends while coasting. I took the hub apart and applied a generous 
> amount of Phil's Tenacious Oil and it now sounds like a different hub. Much 
> much quieter and quite tolerable.
>
> Bones
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:59:43 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> The noise of the White Ind Mi5 does concern me to some degree. Curious 
>> does anyone have both a DT 240 and a White ind. Mi5 to compare the noise 
>> level? I've got a DT 240 on a bike and would rather nothing louder than 
>> that. 
>>
>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:56:26 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> @Johnny, Keith: Thanks for the replies. I've had several wheel sets 
>>> built by Rich at hands on wheels. I may go that route and shoot him an 
>>> email. I'm pretty sure the wheels that I'm currently riding are from Rich. 
>>>
>>> @Keith, Will, Garth: Not sure about the silver hubs. It'd think that if 
>>> it were simply out of stock, it'd say "out of stock" just like half of the 
>>> items on the Riv site. I had a silver hub on a Clem a few years ago and 
>>> liked it just fine. I was thinking of having the rear built with a Silver 
>>> 36h but then didn't see em on the site. Odd. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:39:37 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>
 There's little choice for quiet hubs so if you need 36 you may as well 
 go with Deore's. For myself having a quiet hub is non-negotiable, so I've 
 gone back to using threaded FW hubs for my future builds. The irony is 
 that 
 for the 7 cogs I use there's a better selection of freewheels these days 
 than cassettes. Rich will build you fine wheels. I had him build a set of 
 Alex DM24 rims with Deore/Suntour hubs for me but I've never used them. I 
 also have 2 sets of Joe Young wheels. (He formerly built wheels for Riv 
 way beck when before Rich.) He's in Granbury Texas, youngwheels.com 
 I think. I still ride the first set he built in 1999, and of course, 
 they're as straight as an arrow. 

 There's many things that Riv has that aren't on the menu as I think 
 they're busy enough as it is and don't have much time for extensive upkeep 
 of the website in totality. The "new" 7sp cassette hub was supposedly 
 coming sometime, but as for noise I'd be surprised if it was quiet. 
 Shimano 
 is by their own words ditching most of their road and mtb groups in favor 
 of the deathly black "Ican'tremember" line of bike parts that supposed can 
 be used for road or mtb use. Of course, it was Shimano who messed things 
 up 
 by dividing them in the first place with different cable pulls. 

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Bones]

I do not have a DT 240 but I do have most of the other ones listed: Silver, 
Deore, MI5, Onyx. I'm not a big fan of loud hubs and I found my MI5 
obnoxiously loud; I was having difficultly having conversations with my 
riding friends while coasting. I took the hub apart and applied a generous 
amount of Phil's Tenacious Oil and it now sounds like a different hub. Much 
much quieter and quite tolerable.

Bones

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:59:43 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> The noise of the White Ind Mi5 does concern me to some degree. Curious 
> does anyone have both a DT 240 and a White ind. Mi5 to compare the noise 
> level? I've got a DT 240 on a bike and would rather nothing louder than 
> that. 
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:56:26 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> @Johnny, Keith: Thanks for the replies. I've had several wheel sets built 
>> by Rich at hands on wheels. I may go that route and shoot him an email. I'm 
>> pretty sure the wheels that I'm currently riding are from Rich. 
>>
>> @Keith, Will, Garth: Not sure about the silver hubs. It'd think that if 
>> it were simply out of stock, it'd say "out of stock" just like half of the 
>> items on the Riv site. I had a silver hub on a Clem a few years ago and 
>> liked it just fine. I was thinking of having the rear built with a Silver 
>> 36h but then didn't see em on the site. Odd. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:39:37 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> There's little choice for quiet hubs so if you need 36 you may as well 
>>> go with Deore's. For myself having a quiet hub is non-negotiable, so I've 
>>> gone back to using threaded FW hubs for my future builds. The irony is that 
>>> for the 7 cogs I use there's a better selection of freewheels these days 
>>> than cassettes. Rich will build you fine wheels. I had him build a set of 
>>> Alex DM24 rims with Deore/Suntour hubs for me but I've never used them. I 
>>> also have 2 sets of Joe Young wheels. (He formerly built wheels for Riv 
>>> way beck when before Rich.) He's in Granbury Texas, youngwheels.com 
>>> I think. I still ride the first set he built in 1999, and of course, 
>>> they're as straight as an arrow. 
>>>
>>> There's many things that Riv has that aren't on the menu as I think 
>>> they're busy enough as it is and don't have much time for extensive upkeep 
>>> of the website in totality. The "new" 7sp cassette hub was supposedly 
>>> coming sometime, but as for noise I'd be surprised if it was quiet. Shimano 
>>> is by their own words ditching most of their road and mtb groups in favor 
>>> of the deathly black "Ican'tremember" line of bike parts that supposed can 
>>> be used for road or mtb use. Of course, it was Shimano who messed things up 
>>> by dividing them in the first place with different cable pulls. 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Jay LePree]

Hi Leah,

I could not afford a car in graduate school at the University of 
Wisconsin-Madison, so wound up with a Diamond back mountain bike my first 
two years and then traded it in for a Specialized Triple Sirrus for my last 
two years there.  I was OK with both bikes, but after having my saddle and 
seatpost stolen on my Diamond back, I learned very quickly to install two 
seat leashes.  My bikes were stored inside my apartment overnight, so I 
overnight theft was not a concern.  I used a chain and a U-lock as that 
often can frustrate theives as then need two tools to steal the bike.  I 
would consider purchasing and installing Pitlock skewers to protect the 
wheels.  I would be wary of mounting bags to the bike.  Those would be 
easily stolen.  Baskets with torx nut hardware might be more theft proof.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.php

Jay LePree
Demarest, NJ
T LePree - 2020 ERAU - Commercial Pilot
K. LePree 2023 Columbia U. - Financial Analyst

That first walk past the high school, when all are away at school, will be 
a shock to the system, but it is part of their lives and ours.  Milestones.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:37:53 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

> The current best value from Surly is the Cross Check, at $1100 for a 
> complete.
> -W
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:00:16 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as 
>> they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the 
>> Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play 
>> anymore. 
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
>>> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
>>> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
>>> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
>>> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
>>> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
>>> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
>>> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
>>> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
>>> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
>>> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
>>> linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
>>> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
>>> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
>>> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
>>> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
>>> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
>>> combo for campus riding.
>>> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
>>> who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
>>> that's my 2¢.
>>>
>>> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
 reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
 bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
 locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
 undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…

 Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
 with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, 
 sees 
 beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
 details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
 that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
 the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
 the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
 destination. 

 The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
 about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
 prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
 send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
 nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes 
 all 
 these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 

 And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
 insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
 Leah

 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:

Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Josh C]

The noise of the White Ind Mi5 does concern me to some degree. Curious does 
anyone have both a DT 240 and a White ind. Mi5 to compare the noise level? 
I've got a DT 240 on a bike and would rather nothing louder than that. 

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:56:26 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> @Johnny, Keith: Thanks for the replies. I've had several wheel sets built 
> by Rich at hands on wheels. I may go that route and shoot him an email. I'm 
> pretty sure the wheels that I'm currently riding are from Rich. 
>
> @Keith, Will, Garth: Not sure about the silver hubs. It'd think that if it 
> were simply out of stock, it'd say "out of stock" just like half of the 
> items on the Riv site. I had a silver hub on a Clem a few years ago and 
> liked it just fine. I was thinking of having the rear built with a Silver 
> 36h but then didn't see em on the site. Odd. 
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:39:37 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> There's little choice for quiet hubs so if you need 36 you may as well go 
>> with Deore's. For myself having a quiet hub is non-negotiable, so I've gone 
>> back to using threaded FW hubs for my future builds. The irony is that for 
>> the 7 cogs I use there's a better selection of freewheels these days than 
>> cassettes. Rich will build you fine wheels. I had him build a set of Alex 
>> DM24 rims with Deore/Suntour hubs for me but I've never used them. I also 
>> have 2 sets of Joe Young wheels. (He formerly built wheels for Riv way 
>> beck when before Rich.) He's in Granbury Texas, youngwheels.com I think. 
>> I still ride the first set he built in 1999, and of course, they're as 
>> straight as an arrow. 
>>
>> There's many things that Riv has that aren't on the menu as I think 
>> they're busy enough as it is and don't have much time for extensive upkeep 
>> of the website in totality. The "new" 7sp cassette hub was supposedly 
>> coming sometime, but as for noise I'd be surprised if it was quiet. Shimano 
>> is by their own words ditching most of their road and mtb groups in favor 
>> of the deathly black "Ican'tremember" line of bike parts that supposed can 
>> be used for road or mtb use. Of course, it was Shimano who messed things up 
>> by dividing them in the first place with different cable pulls. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[Josh C]

@Johnny, Keith: Thanks for the replies. I've had several wheel sets built 
by Rich at hands on wheels. I may go that route and shoot him an email. I'm 
pretty sure the wheels that I'm currently riding are from Rich. 

@Keith, Will, Garth: Not sure about the silver hubs. It'd think that if it 
were simply out of stock, it'd say "out of stock" just like half of the 
items on the Riv site. I had a silver hub on a Clem a few years ago and 
liked it just fine. I was thinking of having the rear built with a Silver 
36h but then didn't see em on the site. Odd. 



On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:39:37 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> There's little choice for quiet hubs so if you need 36 you may as well go 
> with Deore's. For myself having a quiet hub is non-negotiable, so I've gone 
> back to using threaded FW hubs for my future builds. The irony is that for 
> the 7 cogs I use there's a better selection of freewheels these days than 
> cassettes. Rich will build you fine wheels. I had him build a set of Alex 
> DM24 rims with Deore/Suntour hubs for me but I've never used them. I also 
> have 2 sets of Joe Young wheels. (He formerly built wheels for Riv way 
> beck when before Rich.) He's in Granbury Texas, youngwheels.com I think. 
> I still ride the first set he built in 1999, and of course, they're as 
> straight as an arrow. 
>
> There's many things that Riv has that aren't on the menu as I think 
> they're busy enough as it is and don't have much time for extensive upkeep 
> of the website in totality. The "new" 7sp cassette hub was supposedly 
> coming sometime, but as for noise I'd be surprised if it was quiet. Shimano 
> is by their own words ditching most of their road and mtb groups in favor 
> of the deathly black "Ican'tremember" line of bike parts that supposed can 
> be used for road or mtb use. Of course, it was Shimano who messed things up 
> by dividing them in the first place with different cable pulls. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Comfy aluminum frames?

[Nick Payne]

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 4:20:00 pm UTC+10 Jason Fuller wrote:

I was hoping I could track down what I had read not long ago on some very 
interesting thin-wall aluminum bikes that were produced in, I believe, the 
1980s. With aluminum lugged construction if I'm recalling correctly. 
Apparently they rode wonderfully and are nothing like the big-box aluminum 
bikes we're used to today.


There's a good article on these frames here: 
https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-peugeot-px-10du-vitus-979.html
.

Back in the late 1980s I had an SR Litage, which was similar to the Vitus 
in that it used normal diameter aluminium tubes with lugs bonded internally 
to the tubes. With the aluminium fork, it was an extremely comfortable bike 
to ride - I can remember using it for an Audax 1000 fitted with really 
skinny 19mm tyres, so that I could shoehorn mudguards onto a bike not 
designed for them, and finding that it was perfectly comfortable over that 
distance. Unfortunately the bike was stolen out of my house in the early 
90s, and I never acquired another aluminium frame until the Mason that I 
bought recently.

Nick Payne

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[RBW] Re: Comfy aluminum frames?

[Joe Bernard]

Jason, 

You're probably thinking of Alan frames, which were also sold under a 
couple other bike brands. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284647880399?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=-_TAxF-oSJe=4429486=mIm2WqOOS_O=_ver=artemis=COPY

Bridgestone also imported something similar for a couple years, the Radac. 

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 11:20:00 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I was hoping I could track down what I had read not long ago on some very 
> interesting thin-wall aluminum bikes that were produced in, I believe, the 
> 1980s. With aluminum lugged construction if I'm recalling correctly. 
> Apparently they rode wonderfully and are nothing like the big-box aluminum 
> bikes we're used to today. 
>
> Steel is three times as stiff as aluminum, all else equal. So you'd think 
> aluminum frames would be less stiff!  Except, because its also lower 
> strength and doesn't have the fatigue resistance of steel, tubing is made 
> larger and thicker which more than offsets this. The aluminum frames can 
> still be lighter because the yield strength to weight ratio is better with 
> aluminum, and by using larger diameter tubing, stresses can be kept low 
> enough to not have fatigue issues (for the expected frame lifespan ... 
> eventually, their time will come, which isn't necessarily the case for 
> steel).  The reason you don't see aluminum frames with a nice flex to them 
> like well-made steel frames, is because if aluminum is allowed to flex to 
> that extent it will fatigue quickly and end up failing. Under a certain 
> level of stress, steel won't fatigue, but aluminum still will, no matter 
> the stress. So with aluminum you've got to keep the stresses low enough the 
> fatigue life is longer than anyone's likely to ride the bike. 
>
> Aluminum is really popular these days because you can thicken up that 
> frame quite a bit, protecting the manufacturer from warranty claims for 
> dented or cracked frames, without it getting super heavy. The lack of rust 
> is a big plus in the casual cyclist's eyes, and the ease at which the 
> tubing can be formed to all kinds of shapes (via hydroforming, among other 
> processes) makes designing elaborate cargo bikes and the like a lot 
> easier.  The rough ride tends to be solved by wider tires these days; 
> suspension being the next line of defence. I reckon it's more attractive 
> for the manufacturer to sell you suspension, which they can up-charge 
> for... and also, as little sense as it makes to all of us, steel is seen as 
> 'outdated' compared to aluminum for bicycle frames. It's dead wrong but .. 
> well, so are a lot of the general public's notions about things. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 11 August 2023 at 04:13:44 UTC-7 alan lavine wrote:
>
>> Appreciate your thoughts, everyone.
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:48:17 AM UTC-4 Will M wrote:
>>
>>> Alan, Jan Heine's 2021 book, *All Road Bicycle Revolution*, has some 
>>> good reading on this topic ("characteristics of a great frame can be 
>>> obtained from all materials"; p. 174) that aligns with Sheldon Brown's 
>>> writing from 20 years ago 
>>>  ("the reality is 
>>> that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, with any 
>>> desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing diameters, wall 
>>> thicknesses and frame geometry").  They both argue that the "feel" of a 
>>> frame is influenced more by frame design than by the material itself. 
>>>
>>> This doesn't answer your question.  :-)
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I have an answer.  All I know is that my aluminum Yuba 
>>> Sweet Curry cargo bike is the stiffest thing on the planet (to give 300-lb 
>>> cargo capacity; look at all the aluminum trusses 
>>> 
>>> !).  
>>>
>>> And that I agree with Matthias: my "forever bike" is also a C'dale 
>>> adventure touring bike (this T1000 
>>> ; the aluminum 
>>> CAAD2 touring frame) that turns 25 in December.  I had posted previously 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> about how I am slowly turning it into an Atlantis, having drunk too much 
>>> Kool-Aid in Walnut Creek.  But I must say that the T1000 rides better than 
>>> any RBW bike that I've owned.  Blasphemy, but there it is.  Something about 
>>> its chromoly fork's geometry gives it magical handling.  If only it had the 
>>> Atlantis's clearances.  I am waiting for the aluminum to fail so I can get 
>>> in line for the next Atlantis batch. :-)
>>>
>>> Will M
>>> NYC
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 5:32:56 PM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:
>>>
 As I said in another thread (
 https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/tAas6urcOwg/m/KW63fr0LCQAJ),
  
 modern aluminium frames can be quite comfortable. Last week I did back to 
 back rides on successive days over the same 

[RBW] Re: Comfy aluminum frames?

[Jason Fuller]

I was hoping I could track down what I had read not long ago on some very 
interesting thin-wall aluminum bikes that were produced in, I believe, the 
1980s. With aluminum lugged construction if I'm recalling correctly. 
Apparently they rode wonderfully and are nothing like the big-box aluminum 
bikes we're used to today. 

Steel is three times as stiff as aluminum, all else equal. So you'd think 
aluminum frames would be less stiff!  Except, because its also lower 
strength and doesn't have the fatigue resistance of steel, tubing is made 
larger and thicker which more than offsets this. The aluminum frames can 
still be lighter because the yield strength to weight ratio is better with 
aluminum, and by using larger diameter tubing, stresses can be kept low 
enough to not have fatigue issues (for the expected frame lifespan ... 
eventually, their time will come, which isn't necessarily the case for 
steel).  The reason you don't see aluminum frames with a nice flex to them 
like well-made steel frames, is because if aluminum is allowed to flex to 
that extent it will fatigue quickly and end up failing. Under a certain 
level of stress, steel won't fatigue, but aluminum still will, no matter 
the stress. So with aluminum you've got to keep the stresses low enough the 
fatigue life is longer than anyone's likely to ride the bike. 

Aluminum is really popular these days because you can thicken up that frame 
quite a bit, protecting the manufacturer from warranty claims for dented or 
cracked frames, without it getting super heavy. The lack of rust is a big 
plus in the casual cyclist's eyes, and the ease at which the tubing can be 
formed to all kinds of shapes (via hydroforming, among other processes) 
makes designing elaborate cargo bikes and the like a lot easier.  The rough 
ride tends to be solved by wider tires these days; suspension being the 
next line of defence. I reckon it's more attractive for the manufacturer to 
sell you suspension, which they can up-charge for... and also, as little 
sense as it makes to all of us, steel is seen as 'outdated' compared to 
aluminum for bicycle frames. It's dead wrong but .. well, so are a lot of 
the general public's notions about things. 






On Friday, 11 August 2023 at 04:13:44 UTC-7 alan lavine wrote:

> Appreciate your thoughts, everyone.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:48:17 AM UTC-4 Will M wrote:
>
>> Alan, Jan Heine's 2021 book, *All Road Bicycle Revolution*, has some 
>> good reading on this topic ("characteristics of a great frame can be 
>> obtained from all materials"; p. 174) that aligns with Sheldon Brown's 
>> writing from 20 years ago 
>>  ("the reality is 
>> that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, with any 
>> desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing diameters, wall 
>> thicknesses and frame geometry").  They both argue that the "feel" of a 
>> frame is influenced more by frame design than by the material itself. 
>>
>> This doesn't answer your question.  :-)
>>
>> I'm not sure I have an answer.  All I know is that my aluminum Yuba Sweet 
>> Curry cargo bike is the stiffest thing on the planet (to give 300-lb cargo 
>> capacity; look at all the aluminum trusses 
>> 
>> !).  
>>
>> And that I agree with Matthias: my "forever bike" is also a C'dale 
>> adventure touring bike (this T1000 
>> ; the aluminum 
>> CAAD2 touring frame) that turns 25 in December.  I had posted previously 
>> 
>>  
>> about how I am slowly turning it into an Atlantis, having drunk too much 
>> Kool-Aid in Walnut Creek.  But I must say that the T1000 rides better than 
>> any RBW bike that I've owned.  Blasphemy, but there it is.  Something about 
>> its chromoly fork's geometry gives it magical handling.  If only it had the 
>> Atlantis's clearances.  I am waiting for the aluminum to fail so I can get 
>> in line for the next Atlantis batch. :-)
>>
>> Will M
>> NYC
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 5:32:56 PM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>>> As I said in another thread (
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/tAas6urcOwg/m/KW63fr0LCQAJ), 
>>> modern aluminium frames can be quite comfortable. Last week I did back to 
>>> back rides on successive days over the same chipseal roads on that Al bike 
>>> and on my Riv custom. I can't say that the Riv felt any more comfortable or 
>>> better handling. The Al frame was running Conti GP Urbans and the Riv Rene 
>>> Herse Bon Jon Pass, both nominally 35mm tyres.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
>>

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