Re: [RBW] Re: ‘95 Rivendell Road, repainted at Waterford

[John Rinker]

A very beautiful bike that I can imagine must be a joy to ride. The blue is 
stunning! May it provide many years of blissful riding!

Cheers, John

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 6:03:06 PM UTC-7 RichS wrote:

> Cody, that is absolutely perfect (for me anyway). Classic Riv all the way. 
> Love it. Congratulations!
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:25:58 PM UTC-4 codyt...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Kim, thanks for the tip about the helicopter tape, I hadn't thought about 
>> that. Should probably do what I can to protect this thing. 
>>
>> Michael, the stem is a Soma Sutro. It's 180mm, so in-between standard and 
>> Technomic. I think they look good, the height is right for this sort of 
>> bike (for me anyway), and they're relatively cheap at around $50.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 5:56 PM Michael Baquerizo  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> may i ask what that stem is? i don't see the nitto branding and it also 
>>> seems to not have nitto hardware on the backside of the clamp. but the 
>>> finish looks to be nitto like in quality. 
>>>
>>> bike looks gorgeous and proportions look great too. looks like a bike 
>>> that would fit me well.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 2:06:06 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 EXTRAORDINARILY BEAUTIFUL road bike, Cody !  I love the color blue.  
 Congratulations on getting it painting just in time before Waterford 
 closed 
 its doors forever. I hope you cherish for a very long time. 

 You might want to get some helicopter tape to protect the finish:


 https://www.amazon.com/ISC-Racers-Tape-HT2314-Helicopter-OG-HD/dp/B000QC6H90?pd_rd_w=8kH7d=amzn1.sym.1a072a44-84d1-4c51-bf0f-3547594e8217_rd_p=1a072a44-84d1-4c51-bf0f-3547594e8217_rd_r=VZG601ES949E5Q7M9W28_rd_wg=dlHaN_rd_r=95aa8ff8-7242-4f71-a2f2-6a0ab4ca742f_rd_i=B000QC6H90_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_t=1

 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA. 



 On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:37:22 AM UTC-7 codyt...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Bought this from a list member over the winter, the frame got damaged 
> a little in transit (no fault of the seller), so I decided on a 
> repair/repaint. I was lucky to get this to Waterford just in time, it 
> ended 
> up being one of their last projects. I know at least a couple people saw 
> the frame during the Waterford factory tour a couple months ago, thought 
> I’d share a photo now that I’ve finished the build. Well, I’m nearly 
> finished, I can see from the picture I put a tire on backwards. But just 
> about there. Only have about 50 miles on it, but couldn’t be happier so 
> far.
>
> Cody, Chicago
>
>
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>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[Matt]

Thanks, all! It seems more art than science. I usually cycle in sandals (I 
refuse to call them flip flops), so I assume that grown-up shoes will add 
some. Nice to be here.

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 6:27:48 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Of the methods I've read about that is and older one (1960s?) and gives a 
> lower saddle than others; for me, a saddle quite a bit too low -- I did use 
> it myself long ago. Of course, all of these methods are simply starting 
> points.
>
> To the OP: be sure to get your saddle fore-and-aft position in place too 
> as well as saddle height before making other measurements; and even saddle 
> tilt in addition to both the forgoing can affect preferred reach to pedals.
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 1:20 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest 
>> your heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, 
>> if your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never failed 
>> me. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:
>>
>>> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today about a 
>>> Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self measured - 
>>> pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently riding an 
>>> ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so I'm not sure 
>>> the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a real bicycle. 
>>> Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH? 
>>>
>>> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next stock. 
>>>
>>> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters,
>
> and other less well defined but still important writing services.
>
>
> --
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>
> Shakespeare, Tempest, Act 1 Scene 2
>

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Re: [RBW] Riv Rider Recipes

[Coco Menk]

Patrick - I'm intrigued by the simplicity of your dal dish! When I first
started cooking, I was much more excited by throwing as many things into a
recipe as I could.. all the spices! all the sauces! etc.. but as I get a
little bit older and starting to place much more importance on ingredient
quality, I realize what I've missed out on by ruling out seemingly simple
dishes! I'll have to give that one a try. Will definitely go in the book if
we get enough submissions to make something. I'll at least compile a PDF

Jay - Michael Pollen really hit it on the nose with that title. I think
that's a great philosophy and one that seems like it's fairly democratic in
terms of taking into account how most of humanity has eaten for millenia. I
love *your *quote about Food being something that would have been
recognized by one's great grandparents!! Amen to that one. Would love to
hear what a quick lunch idea or easy weeknight meal is in your family, it
sounds like others may be able to replicate them if we've got some other
foodies in the group!

My own diet right now has gone under a lot of transformation over the past
few years. Currently I've been operating under what I've ended up
nicknaming the "No Slave Diet", for lack of a better title. Meat is only
allowed if it has been ethically cared for from start to finish, i.e.
organic, grass-fed, grass-finished, likely had a name, I can google the
farm and confirm its claims. No farmed fish. If either of these are not
available, then I keep it plant-based (including eggs and honey). No dairy
out of respect for the treatment of cows and their environment. Removing
dairy consumption has also significantly improved cystic acne and a variety
of other small health complaints so I keep it to oat or full fat coconut
milk these days. Organic and regenerative agriculture is prioritized for
all foods consumed here as well, with the cumulative goal being that foods
consumed should not be grown up in an environment of indentured servitude
and exploitation of humans, but in tune with a more holistic/naturalistic
collaborative set of ideals.

I've been keeping it fairly simple and local as much as possible, although
I read *Grain by Grain*  by Bob Quinn (published by Patagonia) wherein he
describes his own journey as an organic, regenerative farmer and he claims
that organic is the lowest carbon footprint no matter what, compared with
conventional agriculture. His example is tomatoes, I think, with organic
tomatoes shipped to the US still having a lower carbon footprint than
conventionally grown nearby the consumer, because of the immense damage
that pesticides and monocultures have on our planet. Obviously, organic AND
local would be ideal! :)  Also after reading *Silent Spring* and having
several loved ones battle different mystery auto-immune troubles, I'm
convinced that some of these are 2 generations of accumulated pesticide
ingestion from the mother's side showing its ugly face, so I try to avoid
it as much as I can.

The working title took its inspiration from a vegan Oogle
(contemporary-trust-fund-punk-train-hopper-type) that I encountered at work
last fall who had a portrait of a cow tattooed on her arm with the banner:
TO SERVE NO MAN.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 5:26 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:

> It’s really bizarre to me that despite many impressive advancements in the
> biomedical sciences we still haven’t nailed down what constitutes the
> optimum human diet. I try to follow the well-known heuristic from Michael
> Pollan’s book “In Defense of Food” — “eat food, mostly plants, not too
> much.” (“Food” here is understood to be something that might have been
> recognizable to one’s great-grandparents, which is to say not synthesized
> in a lab somewhere.)
>
> I place greater importance on eating in season and with locally sourced
> ingredients (when feasible) than buying organically-grown food. My
> intuition is that milk from the dairy literally up the road probably has a
> lower overall environmental impact than a nominally organic product trucked
> in from California. I also do my best to minimize highly-processed starches
> such as sugar, flour, and white rice.
>
> My wife and I are avid cooks, and spend a great deal of time together in
> the kitchen. It’s a good way to stay connected in spite of busy workdays,
> and for me has the additional benefit of being a creative outlet. I find
> that I exercise different mental muscles when cooking than I do in my
> career, which is something I’ve come to value.
>
> In light of my enthusiasm for cooking, and the sheer extent of cookbooks
> and specialized kitchen equipment I have access to, I don’t have specific
> recipes to offer that would be widely applicable to a group of
> idiosyncratic bicycle fetishists. But if you’re not familiar with the chef
> and restaurateur Yotam Ottolenghi I’d recommend picking up one of his
> cookbooks — “Simple” is probably the one to get.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> 

[RBW] Re: Cycling shoes for wide feet?

[J]

I'll 2nd the Five Ten Freeriders as being pretty wide for a standard width 
shoe but they are not " proper cycling shoes I mean something that takes a 
cleat " as Eric specified. There are plenty of wide fitting flat pedal 
shoes that one could wear on a bike. We're looking for something different. 

I can't imagine how Danner boots work you if you have wide feet, if you are 
talking about their Made in USA line. The Danner EE width is the same as a 
D width from most any other boot maker. I've bought 5 different Made in USA 
Danner boots in the last 10 years and all were incredibly uncomfortable, 
mostly due to the dumb reinforced narrow toe box that the upper must break 
in around and the volume reducing goretex lining. I tried the goretex free, 
leather lined Danner light Cascade but the same ol toe box ruined the 
concept. Rant end. Apologies. I love they way they look though. 

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:47:10 PM UTC-4 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have wide feet too. I have the Adidas Five Ten Freerider Pros for 
> bike-riding and they are the best cycling sneaker I have ever had.
>
> Wide shoes are still surprisingly hard to find. I also really love my 
> Danner boots and Rancourt shoes, both in wide sizes and made in the USA. 
>
> Michael
>  
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 12:23:10 PM UTC-4 Drew Saunders wrote:
>
>> I have 10.5  feet. Ducks follow me around as if I'm their leader. 
>> Birkenstocks fit me well, but otherwise, I have to seek out wide-specific 
>> shoes. I can also stand on one foot until I'm tired or bored, so super wide 
>> feet do have their advantages!
>>
>> I'm in the process of getting the last few hundred miles out of my 
>> Shimano SPD-compatible "walkable" shoes. Can't remember the model, but they 
>> would be sold as "mountain bike" shoes, in that there are lugs and stuff to 
>> get grip. I have Ritchey SPD pedals on my Riv and Ibis, so I guess my 
>> 28mm-tired Riv is a "mountain" bike! ;)
>>
>> Anyway, when these give up the ghost and/or REI has a sale, I'll try 
>> whatever cheapest Shimano shoes they have that come in wide. The Stomp Lox 
>> look intriguing, but they don't make the longer sizes in wide too, which is 
>> too bad.
>>
>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:02:33 AM UTC-7 J wrote:
>>
>>> I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall with this question 
>>> for a couple years. I have one regular width foot that can tolerate just 
>>> about any shoe I put on it and one twice broken foot that can't tolerate 
>>> anything even slightly constricting in the toe box or pointy. So I normally 
>>> go with 12EE width equivalent shoes for the forgiving width and volume for 
>>> everyday use and wear approach shoes and flat pedals for on bike use. I can 
>>> no longer wear Vans of Converse that made up most of my non work footwear. 
>>> Any time I'm in a bike shop that has cycling shoes that I like the look of 
>>> I try them on and haven't yet found something that fits. As ugly I think 
>>> they are, Stomplox may be the only shoes voluminous enough.
>>>
>>> I once tried a friend's pair of very broken in (discontinued) Giro 
>>> Republic LX and they were a pretty nice fit but I needed a half size 
>>> bigger. 
>>>
>>> I've been stuck on trying a pair of Quoc but they wildly varying 
>>> opinions on whether they fit wide or narrow always keeps me away from them. 
>>> Now that Rei is carrying them I may just get a chance to figure out sizing 
>>> in person the next time I need to make the 2 hour drive to the closest Rei. 
>>>
>>> I have a friend with EE high volume feet and loves his Giro Empire VR90 
>>> HV (HV discontinued) the HV stands for high volume. I think they look 
>>> fairly classic as well once you take a black sharpie to the lettering. The 
>>> non HV pretty classy left alone but I seriously doubt they'd fit. 
>>>
>>> The concept of good fit is hamstrung by the fact that brand new leather 
>>> shoes aren't going to fit the same after breaking in. For the last 10+ 
>>> years I've immediately soaked a new pair of leather work boots until the 
>>> leather was saturated then wore them around wet for a few hours to get the 
>>> leather started breaking in, then letting them dry before ever wearing them 
>>> to work. Same goes for Brooks saddles, contrary to popular opinion. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 10:14:13 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>>
 On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:30:12 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are there any proper cycling shoes out there that accommodate serious 
 width? 


 Thanks for jumping to a new thread ... I probably should have done 
 that, myself. 

 Should we start with a definition of "proper cycling shoes" ?  :-)

 I have found the proliferation of pedals with large platforms to help 
 me rethink what I am looking for in a cycling shoe. Of course, that also 
 corresponds with retirement and never doing rides on which I feel the need 

[RBW] Re: Cycling shoes for wide feet?

[Michael Morrissey]

Hi,

I have wide feet too. I have the Adidas Five Ten Freerider Pros for 
bike-riding and they are the best cycling sneaker I have ever had.

Wide shoes are still surprisingly hard to find. I also really love my 
Danner boots and Rancourt shoes, both in wide sizes and made in the USA. 

Michael
 

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 12:23:10 PM UTC-4 Drew Saunders wrote:

> I have 10.5  feet. Ducks follow me around as if I'm their leader. 
> Birkenstocks fit me well, but otherwise, I have to seek out wide-specific 
> shoes. I can also stand on one foot until I'm tired or bored, so super wide 
> feet do have their advantages!
>
> I'm in the process of getting the last few hundred miles out of my Shimano 
> SPD-compatible "walkable" shoes. Can't remember the model, but they would 
> be sold as "mountain bike" shoes, in that there are lugs and stuff to get 
> grip. I have Ritchey SPD pedals on my Riv and Ibis, so I guess my 
> 28mm-tired Riv is a "mountain" bike! ;)
>
> Anyway, when these give up the ghost and/or REI has a sale, I'll try 
> whatever cheapest Shimano shoes they have that come in wide. The Stomp Lox 
> look intriguing, but they don't make the longer sizes in wide too, which is 
> too bad.
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:02:33 AM UTC-7 J wrote:
>
>> I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall with this question 
>> for a couple years. I have one regular width foot that can tolerate just 
>> about any shoe I put on it and one twice broken foot that can't tolerate 
>> anything even slightly constricting in the toe box or pointy. So I normally 
>> go with 12EE width equivalent shoes for the forgiving width and volume for 
>> everyday use and wear approach shoes and flat pedals for on bike use. I can 
>> no longer wear Vans of Converse that made up most of my non work footwear. 
>> Any time I'm in a bike shop that has cycling shoes that I like the look of 
>> I try them on and haven't yet found something that fits. As ugly I think 
>> they are, Stomplox may be the only shoes voluminous enough.
>>
>> I once tried a friend's pair of very broken in (discontinued) Giro 
>> Republic LX and they were a pretty nice fit but I needed a half size 
>> bigger. 
>>
>> I've been stuck on trying a pair of Quoc but they wildly varying opinions 
>> on whether they fit wide or narrow always keeps me away from them. Now that 
>> Rei is carrying them I may just get a chance to figure out sizing in person 
>> the next time I need to make the 2 hour drive to the closest Rei. 
>>
>> I have a friend with EE high volume feet and loves his Giro Empire VR90 
>> HV (HV discontinued) the HV stands for high volume. I think they look 
>> fairly classic as well once you take a black sharpie to the lettering. The 
>> non HV pretty classy left alone but I seriously doubt they'd fit. 
>>
>> The concept of good fit is hamstrung by the fact that brand new leather 
>> shoes aren't going to fit the same after breaking in. For the last 10+ 
>> years I've immediately soaked a new pair of leather work boots until the 
>> leather was saturated then wore them around wet for a few hours to get the 
>> leather started breaking in, then letting them dry before ever wearing them 
>> to work. Same goes for Brooks saddles, contrary to popular opinion. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 10:14:13 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:30:12 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Are there any proper cycling shoes out there that accommodate serious 
>>> width? 
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for jumping to a new thread ... I probably should have done that, 
>>> myself. 
>>>
>>> Should we start with a definition of "proper cycling shoes" ?  :-)
>>>
>>> I have found the proliferation of pedals with large platforms to help me 
>>> rethink what I am looking for in a cycling shoe. Of course, that also 
>>> corresponds with retirement and never doing rides on which I feel the need 
>>> to have my feet securely attached to the pedals. On the contrary, I am 
>>> finding that being able to shift my feet around is significantly improving 
>>> foot comfort on longer rides. It also has been helping me subtly alter the 
>>> pedaling dynamics which is recruiting different muscles, which also reduces 
>>> fatigue on longer rides. I did a 200km ride Saturday and being able to 
>>> change my foot position was very helpful. I think that it's not just having 
>>> a wider toe box, but also a more flexible sole that's important to foot 
>>> health on long outings. My "theory" is that stiff soles, which are great 
>>> for shorter rides with higher power output, are more damaging in the long 
>>> run because they don't require the muscles (and attachments) in your feet 
>>> and ankles to perform their usual stabilization and support functions. I'm 
>>> not a PT/OT/MD, though, so take that for what it's worth. 
>>>
>>> Still, I appreciate the advantages of stiff soles and secure pedal 
>>> connections. Unfortunately, I have yet to find 

Re: [RBW] Re: ‘95 Rivendell Road, repainted at Waterford

[RichS]

Cody, that is absolutely perfect (for me anyway). Classic Riv all the way. 
Love it. Congratulations!

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:25:58 PM UTC-4 codyt...@gmail.com wrote:

> Kim, thanks for the tip about the helicopter tape, I hadn't thought about 
> that. Should probably do what I can to protect this thing. 
>
> Michael, the stem is a Soma Sutro. It's 180mm, so in-between standard and 
> Technomic. I think they look good, the height is right for this sort of 
> bike (for me anyway), and they're relatively cheap at around $50.
>
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 5:56 PM Michael Baquerizo  
> wrote:
>
>> may i ask what that stem is? i don't see the nitto branding and it also 
>> seems to not have nitto hardware on the backside of the clamp. but the 
>> finish looks to be nitto like in quality. 
>>
>> bike looks gorgeous and proportions look great too. looks like a bike 
>> that would fit me well.
>>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 2:06:06 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> EXTRAORDINARILY BEAUTIFUL road bike, Cody !  I love the color blue.  
>>> Congratulations on getting it painting just in time before Waterford closed 
>>> its doors forever. I hope you cherish for a very long time. 
>>>
>>> You might want to get some helicopter tape to protect the finish:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/ISC-Racers-Tape-HT2314-Helicopter-OG-HD/dp/B000QC6H90?pd_rd_w=8kH7d=amzn1.sym.1a072a44-84d1-4c51-bf0f-3547594e8217_rd_p=1a072a44-84d1-4c51-bf0f-3547594e8217_rd_r=VZG601ES949E5Q7M9W28_rd_wg=dlHaN_rd_r=95aa8ff8-7242-4f71-a2f2-6a0ab4ca742f_rd_i=B000QC6H90_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_t=1
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:37:22 AM UTC-7 codyt...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Bought this from a list member over the winter, the frame got damaged a 
 little in transit (no fault of the seller), so I decided on a 
 repair/repaint. I was lucky to get this to Waterford just in time, it 
 ended 
 up being one of their last projects. I know at least a couple people saw 
 the frame during the Waterford factory tour a couple months ago, thought 
 I’d share a photo now that I’ve finished the build. Well, I’m nearly 
 finished, I can see from the picture I put a tire on backwards. But just 
 about there. Only have about 50 miles on it, but couldn’t be happier so 
 far.

 Cody, Chicago


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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Riv Rider Recipes

[Jay Lonner]

It’s really bizarre to me that despite many impressive advancements in the biomedical sciences we still haven’t nailed down what constitutes the optimum human diet. I try to follow the well-known heuristic from Michael Pollan’s book “In Defense of Food” — “eat food, mostly plants, not too much.” (“Food” here is understood to be something that might have been recognizable to one’s great-grandparents, which is to say not synthesized in a lab somewhere.)I place greater importance on eating in season and with locally sourced ingredients (when feasible) than buying organically-grown food. My intuition is that milk from the dairy literally up the road probably has a lower overall environmental impact than a nominally organic product trucked in from California. I also do my best to minimize highly-processed starches such as sugar, flour, and white rice.My wife and I are avid cooks, and spend a great deal of time together in the kitchen. It’s a good way to stay connected in spite of busy workdays, and for me has the additional benefit of being a creative outlet. I find that I exercise different mental muscles when cooking than I do in my career, which is something I’ve come to value. In light of my enthusiasm for cooking, and the sheer extent of cookbooks and specialized kitchen equipment I have access to, I don’t have specific recipes to offer that would be widely applicable to a group of idiosyncratic bicycle fetishists. But if you’re not familiar with the chef and restaurateur Yotam Ottolenghi I’d recommend picking up one of his cookbooks — “Simple” is probably the one to get.Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Aug 21, 2023, at 9:32 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:I'll be interested, both practically and academically,* in what others consider the ideal diet and I would consider buying a list cookbooks if it weren't too biased in the direction of "eat nothing but bacon all the time."I'll start. I don't like to cook, tho' in the past and in the right circumstances I've cooked largely and well, but living solus I find it a bore. So in addition to certain types of food I prefer simple food; but I detest poor food and therefore I dislike most prepared foods. Besides all this, I belong to the Orthodox [Christian] church where fast days -- basically, no animal products, tho' the principle of economia always applies -- outnumber non-fast days. Lastly, I gave up meat entirely for multiple reasons.So my repertoire ranges from vegan recipes to spinach quesadillas and cheese sandwiches with mayo and lettuce and pickles (don't laugh; a good cheese sandwich goes well with a fine Shiraz). I tend to like breads and, somewhat less, potatoes and rice -- and beer. My mother controlled type 2 diabetes and incipient heart trouble for 30 years by avoiding salt, fat, sugar, and eating lots of vegetables, styrofoam chicken breasts, and lots o' rice, being Filipina. Me, I prefer to ride my bikes.One very simple vegan recipe that I like: a modified Indian dal recipe.The basic recipe is cook the dal (I use, in order of preference, red, orange, or green, but not brown lentils from the bulk bins at Sprout's) until it is soft but not mushy. You can use vegetable broth in place of water. Prepare a savory oil: heat 1/8 cup [for large single serving] of neutrally flavored oil (not olive! which I use for most things) and "sautee" or "boil" small amounts of some or all of cumin, coriander, garlic, mustard seed, red pepper, fenugreek, and/or black pepper for 30-60 seconds.Put lentils on long-grain rice, strain oil and pour over lentils, eat like this or add any, some, or all of full-fat yogurt, hot Indian mango pickle, and English sweet chutney.As I tend to overdo things I've turned this into a lentil stew: sautee chopped onion, add liquid and cook lentils partially, add chopped spinach, cook until lentils are soft but not get mushy. Serve as above.Another recent "recipe" I invented recently because I had little in the fridge and didn't want to bother shopping: sautee lots of garlic in olive oil, liberally add red pepper, after a bit add a cup or 2 of peas, I use frozen, sautee some more until peas thawed and mostly cooked, add 14 oz can of full fat cocoanut milk, cook som more, eat over long grain rice.Oh, and peanut butter: Sprout's has an inexpensive house brand pure peanut butter, just peanuts and salt. The oil separates so you have to stir thoroughly; I store it upside down in the pantry until use, and after stirring store in the refrigerator. Decent bread and a wee bit of jam with whole milk ...Tip: If you cook a lot of dried legumes, get a pressure cooker. Crockpots are also useful.[Aside: I am very proud to say that when bringing up my daughter part time as a single father she never ate prepared foods, not even for school day breakfasts. (Well, some exceptions: I briefly bought Annie's Mac 'n' Cheese until I decided it wasn't good enough, and we once tried McDonald's chicken nuggets -- she got sick. We did order in pizza 

Re: [RBW] Re: NMSW

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I too have NMSW--mine are A23 velocity rims.  The kool stop oranges squeal,
and I have lightly sanded the brake pads when they got glassy and it stops
squealing for a few hundred miles.  I'm gonna try some kool-stop black pads
with them based upon the discussion and see if it gets rid of the squeals.
Apparently I have not worn down my rims enough yet...

Toshi

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[RBW] Re: NMSW

[Josh C]

@ Matti, wobe, Jim: I really appreciate the input. I'm going to stick with 
the NMSW wheels. Thanks again!


On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:43:58 PM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Here are mine after approximately 300 trips to the grocery store, 1200 
> miles total or so.  Non-machined black Cliffhangers, Kool Stop pads. They 
> do squeal a bit when wet, but not terribly, and only when starting the 
> ride.   The picture shows how the pads have taken some of the anodizing 
> away.  They are not the grabbiest brakes I have but the bike does stop when 
> I ask it to, even when loaded with groceries.  
>
> Jim in Rochester, NY
>
> [image: IMG_1747.jpeg]
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 12:07:42 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Just finished D2R2 160K with my A23 rims in NMSW.  No issues.  I will say 
>> the stopping was less than great until I wore through the layer of 
>> anodizing.  But that was maybe 30 miles (and before the 160k).  Kool Stop 
>> salmon FTW.
>>
>> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 8:55:46 PM UTC-4 Matti wrote:
>>
>>> I saw this info about the topic on the Riv website page for a complete 
>>> Appaloosa:
>>>
>>> Another caveat: We always prefer non-machined sidewalls because they 
>>> last longer, but when paired with salmon pads, they squeal until the rims 
>>> are more broken in. We're including a set of non salmon pads with this 
>>> bike, so you can swap them out if it's too noisy. A couple rides in the 
>>> rain or lots of dusty rides should do the trick as well.  See the pads in 
>>> the pictures.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:19:48 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim brakes. 
 Poor stopping power? 

 I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out 
 to a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels and 
 they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you 
 all have with 'em. 

 Thanks 

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2023

[Matthew Williams]

CLEM SMITH JR. L
52cm
2000
Berkeley, CA
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/berkeley-rivendell-clem-complete-52cm/7657350903.html


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[RBW] Re: FS Brooks B67 Tan - rarely used

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

Sold.

On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 13:35:14 UTC-7 Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:

> This is one of the 6 saddles I acquired while deciding what worked the 
> best for me.  I might have used it for a dozen or so short rides over a 
> month before I removed it.
>
> This the tan variant that comes with laces.
>
> $95 shipped.  
>
> I can give a discount for local pick up (San Jose area)
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Summer Cleaning - Brooks, Salsa, Acorn, Nitto, Thomson

[Michael Ullmer]

Lamp Holder and DA Skewers sold

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:14:37 PM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:

>   A few items left over from a few builds and from the bin. Prices are net 
> to me and don't include shipping. Will ship with Pirateship.
>
> 1) Brooks B-17S - $80
> --Bought from my LBS, Proofride applied, appears not to have been ridden. 
> Was never used by us.
>
> 2) Timbuk2 Tool Roll - $20
> --Some marks from use, functionally great. A friend gifted me a Soulrun 
> Tool roll and this one needs to go.
>
> 3) Black Shimano FC-6206 170mm Cranks - $75
> --These came on an old Trek MTB. Beautiful, a few marks in the black 
> anodization. Rings 46-40-28. Comes with the original cup and cone BB
>
> 4) Salsa 80mm Quill Stem 26.0 Clamp - $60
> --A rare bird! A takeoff from a neighbors bike that I'm rehabbing. Shows 
> signs of use, sticker is worn in parts.
>
> 5) Nitto Lamp Holder 2 - $50
> --Great shape, used to hold my Acorn bag.
>
> 6) Acorn Medium Handlebar Bag - $70
> --Great shape, no rips/tears. No signs of wear that I can see.
>
> 7) Shimano 600 27.2 Seatpost - $25
> --Some scuffs from use.
>
> 8) Dura Ace QR Skewers - $40
> --Mismatched Dura Ace skewers (the font is SLIGHTLY different).
>
> 9) Thomson Elite 27.0 x 330 Black Seatpost - $45
> --Was in use on my partner's Bridgestone MB-3. Has its fair share of 
> scuffs.
>
> Pics here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/X3mrChL4s7iwcxCK8
>
> PM off-list
>
> Mike in Minneapolis
>

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[RBW] Re: Broken shifters

[Bill Lindsay]

The OP has repeated that they are not mechanical.  The thing that isn't 
clear to me is whether the OP wants to be mechanical.  If you have a bunch 
of broken shifters, and want to learn how mechanical people visualize a 
mechanism working and how they use that knowledge to diagnose and remedy 
failures, then it sounds like the OP needs a mechanical mentor.  You should 
find somebody who you trust and who is generous with their time and want to 
describe their process to you.  Have them take one apart with you 
watching.  Have them explain what they are seeing and what they think they 
want to do to fix your shifter(s), or tell you they are all hosed and throw 
them away.  It's hard to be a mentor over a google group.  Mentorship 
happens in-person.  

If you can't find or don't want to find a mentor, maybe you want somebody 
to just try to fix them for you so you don't have to think about it?  
Again, that person should be somebody you trust, so if they say "these are 
hosed" you won't feel like it's a waste throwing them out.  Again, it would 
be nice if it was somebody who was either generous or owed you a favor so 
that if they succeed, it's free, and if they fail, it's still free.  People 
who work on things for a living are usually $50/hr to $100/hr pros and 
there's no way this project will be worth paying a pro what they deserve to 
be paid.  Maybe there's a volunteer here who you'd mail your shifters to, 
and they can mail them back fixed.  

I don't know this for certain, but I think there's a non-zero chance that 
they are not even broken.  The symptom described could be just a setup 
issue, as I understand it.  The mechanic who does the diagnosis would be 
able to be conclusive on that.  

If you do decide your shifters are hosed, I recommend you upcycle them into 
key chains.  Shift levers make great keychains.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:00:15 PM UTC-7 Pam Bikes wrote:

> Thanks all for your comments.  I think it's the press fit thing that holds 
> it together but I haven't gone beyond that.  I'll take one apart and see.  
> I'm not mechanical so who would be able to put a screw in there for me?  I 
> just need to know what to ask for.  I can see the press fit thing coming 
> apart.  But maybe the spring is the problem.  I have several so I'll 
> sacrifice one.  I'd like to be able to repair them.  Thanks again!
>
>
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 4:31:45 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Take a look at page 61 of the 2006 Rivendell catalog 
>> 
>>  - 
>> I imagine that spring can give up? If that's the problem, maybe there a way 
>> to buy a spare from Grainger or something like that?
>> Max
>> [image: shifter.jpg]
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 4:26:45 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> So I watched the video ... too bad they didn't show then removing the 
>>> cover. If wd-40 doesn't work I'd still remove the cover and inspect the 
>>> innards. This isn't a jet engine !  The cover may press back in or take a 
>>> little finagling. The head of the rivet may need sheered off, I can't say 
>>> for sure what it is as the Suntours I have screws. TMI here but . If 
>>> you're handy with a drill you could use a drill and drill a small hole in 
>>> the center of the riven and tap it for a small screw. You'd have to go to 
>>> hardware store to find one. That may seem like a lot of work for a shifter, 
>>> maybe not, it depends on how much one likes to monkey around  
>>> heeheeehee. Gitarzan baby !  If anyone catches what that word refers to 
>>> word, you get a cookie ! 
>>>
>>> I also note that in the video they show the lever being tightened, and 
>>> tightened again, like really tight. I've never tightened any of these 
>>> levers like that since my first pair in 1983, which I still have and are 
>>> working. I only tighten them enough to hold the shift, no more.. If it 
>>> doesn't hold the shift, I don't tighten it more from where it is, I loosen 
>>> it completely and then tighten it just a bit more than before. It's all by 
>>> feel, with finesse. 
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] FS: Summer Cleaning - Brooks, Salsa, Acorn, Nitto, Thomson

[Michael Ullmer]

  A few items left over from a few builds and from the bin. Prices are net 
to me and don't include shipping. Will ship with Pirateship.

1) Brooks B-17S - $80
--Bought from my LBS, Proofride applied, appears not to have been ridden. 
Was never used by us.

2) Timbuk2 Tool Roll - $20
--Some marks from use, functionally great. A friend gifted me a Soulrun 
Tool roll and this one needs to go.

3) Black Shimano FC-6206 170mm Cranks - $75
--These came on an old Trek MTB. Beautiful, a few marks in the black 
anodization. Rings 46-40-28. Comes with the original cup and cone BB

4) Salsa 80mm Quill Stem 26.0 Clamp - $60
--A rare bird! A takeoff from a neighbors bike that I'm rehabbing. Shows 
signs of use, sticker is worn in parts.

5) Nitto Lamp Holder 2 - $50
--Great shape, used to hold my Acorn bag.

6) Acorn Medium Handlebar Bag - $70
--Great shape, no rips/tears. No signs of wear that I can see.

7) Shimano 600 27.2 Seatpost - $25
--Some scuffs from use.

8) Dura Ace QR Skewers - $40
--Mismatched Dura Ace skewers (the font is SLIGHTLY different).

9) Thomson Elite 27.0 x 330 Black Seatpost - $45
--Was in use on my partner's Bridgestone MB-3. Has its fair share of scuffs.

Pics here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/X3mrChL4s7iwcxCK8

PM off-list

Mike in Minneapolis

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Re: [RBW] Re: What to get, what to get....

[iamkeith]

I too think the 59 Clem perfectly describes what you're looking for - 
except I assume that's what you call unwieldy, having had direct 
experience.  As Johnny says  the revised, lugged Susie/gus might work, but 
it's a long way off and we can only make educated guesses about what it'll 
be.  I think that, with your experience and criteria  you might be a 
candidate for a custon riv.  

If you don't want that, the ONLY option I  can think of is an expensive 
one:  Jones makes the LWB in a large, spacframe version, but in titanium 
only.  Not a true stepthrough, but close and with most of the benefits.  
Accommodates disc brakes and rohloff and BIG tires.  Long by 
industry-standards, but not as long as a clem.
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:02:20 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Ha! It’s not out of the question that I would do such a thing! I have a 
> recurring nightmare that my bike gets stolen and then somehow by the end of 
> the dream I find an extra frame in the garage and it’s ok. But I think 
> Ariel had a 60, so too big!
>
> Kiley, I hope you find your dream Riv soon! 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 21, 2023, at 1:28 PM, jaredwilson  wrote:
>
> Leah,
>
>
> Mine is going to a sweet kid down in Los Angeles as his first Rivendell, 
> couldn't be more happy for him.
>
> Kiley was offered first right of refusal on Ariel's bike, I will be 
> listing hers in the next day or so. I did however have a dream last night 
> that you purchased it as some sort of reserve of Platypus goodness
>
> jared
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:42:49 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I see Jared’s 60 Platy sold…are you the lucky new owner, Kiley? 
>> Leah
>>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 9:53:21 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> @ Kiley - a Rivendell Clem 59cm would fit you best only in size, but 
>>> your all around needs as stated by Johnny.
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:37:46 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Rivendell is going to replace the Susie/Gus line with something lugged 
 (I think) but that is going to be far down the line. You said you lusted 
 after a Clem L. What about one of those? They are at least related to the 
 hillybike family (susie/gus) and would meet everything you seem to want.

 On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 6:25:15 PM UTC-4 jaredwilson wrote:

> Piggybacking on what Joe just said, PM sent :)
>
> jared
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:19:25 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Did you like the Cheviot? The current (slightly longer) version is 
>> the Platypus; now with canti/v-brakes I would consider it a low-stepover 
>> equivalent to Appaloosa. You would probably ride a 60cm. 
>>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 2:39:50 PM UTC-7 Kiley Demond wrote:
>>
>>> Hi- Formerly an active participant, I am now merely an inconsistent 
>>> lurker so I may well be asking questions already addressed. I will 
>>> gracefully accept links to previous conversations that answer the 
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> Since I am approaching this with a wide range of 'acceptable' 
>>> answers, no need to limit responses to Rivendell-only possibilities. I 
>>> know 
>>> that you know what I mean when asking for certain things, such as a 
>>> steel 
>>> step-thru frame with great ride-ability and room for wider tires . I 
>>> don't have to explain why those things are important. 
>>>
>>> My dream is a step-thru frame that is long enough in the chain stay 
>>> to be stable and handle-well, but not so long as to be cumbersome. With 
>>> a 
>>> PBH of 91 on a 5'10" person, I need all the help I can get with a large 
>>> bike that remains wieldy (I assume that is a word). Ideally, it could 
>>> be 
>>> fitted to be a pedal-assist electric bike at some future time.
>>>
>>> Riding: 20% pavement, 60% gravel/sand/dirt, 20% trails. Want 
>>> wide-ish tires but don't want to be a slug on pavement. (Of course, 
>>> what I 
>>> want and physics may not agree.)
>>>
>>> 1. Is there a new Riv bike on the horizon? I vaguely remember 
>>> reading about one, but I could be out of step with reality. This Q is 
>>> the 
>>> real impetus of this post.
>>> 2. In the non-Riv world, is there anything along these lines? 
>>> Perhaps one that may have (the pleasantries of) disc brakes and an 
>>> internal 
>>> hub?  
>>> 3. Step-thru frames for the tall?  Perhaps available in northern 
>>> Europe where the bike-lovers are frequently tall? I once imported a 
>>> Dutch 
>>> bike, so purchasing options don't have to be restricted to the U.S. (It 
>>> did 
>>> not handle particularly well and made my Cheviot look positively 
>>> svelte.)
>>>
>>> My actual Riv experience has been a Cheviot I owned for a couple of 
>>> 

[RBW] Re: New Build Day! Two Speed Road Bike

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks Andrew

There are indeed two ranges, and the "spread" between the two front 
chainrings is pretty wide right now.  For the Gear Inch folks, what I have 
now is a 60 inch high and a 37 inch low in the 18T cog, and a 67 inch high 
and 41 inch low in the 16T cog.  When I think of "hills" gearing I'd want 
the higher high AND the lower low.  When I think of "flats" gearing then 
I'd want the two to be closer together, and indeed the flatter terrain is 
where a singlespeed makes a lot of sense.  

Looking at the numbers I'm finding some appeal in running a totally stock 
and totally unwanted 53/39 crankset, matched with my 20/22 DOS ENO.  The 
range of gears would be more in the 49 to 73 inch range, and bigger 
chainrings and cogs are known by the efficiency zealots to have less 
friction and lower chain tension.  

Plenty to play with, even on a two-speed...

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:01:53 AM UTC-7 Berkeleyan wrote:

> Ah, so you shift the rear DOS ENO by turning the thumbscrew bolt, 
> brilliant and simple. That gives you a low range two-speed for hills, and a 
> high range two-speed for the flats. I have the hub on my QuickBeam, and I 
> bet you're able to swap cogs faster than I can, since I have 17mm nuts to 
> deal with.
>
> - Andrew, still kicking in Berkeley
>

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[RBW] Re: Broken shifters

[Pam Bikes]

Thanks all for your comments.  I think it's the press fit thing that holds 
it together but I haven't gone beyond that.  I'll take one apart and see.  
I'm not mechanical so who would be able to put a screw in there for me?  I 
just need to know what to ask for.  I can see the press fit thing coming 
apart.  But maybe the spring is the problem.  I have several so I'll 
sacrifice one.  I'd like to be able to repair them.  Thanks again!


On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 4:31:45 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:

> Take a look at page 61 of the 2006 Rivendell catalog 
> 
>  - 
> I imagine that spring can give up? If that's the problem, maybe there a way 
> to buy a spare from Grainger or something like that?
> Max
> [image: shifter.jpg]
>
> On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 4:26:45 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> So I watched the video ... too bad they didn't show then removing the 
>> cover. If wd-40 doesn't work I'd still remove the cover and inspect the 
>> innards. This isn't a jet engine !  The cover may press back in or take a 
>> little finagling. The head of the rivet may need sheered off, I can't say 
>> for sure what it is as the Suntours I have screws. TMI here but . If 
>> you're handy with a drill you could use a drill and drill a small hole in 
>> the center of the riven and tap it for a small screw. You'd have to go to 
>> hardware store to find one. That may seem like a lot of work for a shifter, 
>> maybe not, it depends on how much one likes to monkey around  
>> heeheeehee. Gitarzan baby !  If anyone catches what that word refers to 
>> word, you get a cookie ! 
>>
>> I also note that in the video they show the lever being tightened, and 
>> tightened again, like really tight. I've never tightened any of these 
>> levers like that since my first pair in 1983, which I still have and are 
>> working. I only tighten them enough to hold the shift, no more.. If it 
>> doesn't hold the shift, I don't tighten it more from where it is, I loosen 
>> it completely and then tighten it just a bit more than before. It's all by 
>> feel, with finesse. 
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What to get, what to get....

[Leah Peterson]

Ha! It’s not out of the question that I would do such a thing! I have a recurring nightmare that my bike gets stolen and then somehow by the end of the dream I find an extra frame in the garage and it’s ok. But I think Ariel had a 60, so too big!Kiley, I hope you find your dream Riv soon! Sent from my iPhoneOn Aug 21, 2023, at 1:28 PM, jaredwilson  wrote:Leah,Mine is going to a sweet kid down in Los Angeles as his first Rivendell, couldn't be more happy for him.Kiley was offered first right of refusal on Ariel's bike, I will be listing hers in the next day or so. I did however have a dream last night that you purchased it as some sort of reserve of Platypus goodnessjaredOn Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:42:49 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I see Jared’s 60 Platy sold…are you the lucky new owner, Kiley? LeahOn Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 9:53:21 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:@ Kiley - a Rivendell Clem 59cm would fit you best only in size, but your all around needs as stated by Johnny.Kim HetzelYelm, WA. On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:37:46 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:Rivendell is going to replace the Susie/Gus line with something lugged (I think) but that is going to be far down the line. You said you lusted after a Clem L. What about one of those? They are at least related to the hillybike family (susie/gus) and would meet everything you seem to want.On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 6:25:15 PM UTC-4 jaredwilson wrote:Piggybacking on what Joe just said, PM sent :)jaredOn Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:19:25 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:Did you like the Cheviot? The current (slightly longer) version is the Platypus; now with canti/v-brakes I would consider it a low-stepover equivalent to Appaloosa. You would probably ride a 60cm. On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 2:39:50 PM UTC-7 Kiley Demond wrote:Hi- Formerly an active participant, I am now merely an inconsistent lurker so I may well be asking questions already addressed. I will gracefully accept links to previous conversations that answer the questions.Since I am approaching this with a wide range of 'acceptable' answers, no need to limit responses to Rivendell-only possibilities. I know that you know what I mean when asking for certain things, such as a steel step-thru frame with great ride-ability and room for wider tires . I don't have to explain why those things are important. My dream is a step-thru frame that is long enough in the chain stay to be stable and handle-well, but not so long as to be cumbersome. With a PBH of 91 on a 5'10" person, I need all the help I can get with a large bike that remains wieldy (I assume that is a word). Ideally, it could be fitted to be a pedal-assist electric bike at some future time.Riding: 20% pavement, 60% gravel/sand/dirt, 20% trails. Want wide-ish tires but don't want to be a slug on pavement. (Of course, what I want and physics may not agree.)1. Is there a new Riv bike on the horizon? I vaguely remember reading about one, but I could be out of step with reality. This Q is the real impetus of this post.2. In the non-Riv world, is there anything along these lines? Perhaps one that may have (the pleasantries of) disc brakes and an internal hub?  3. Step-thru frames for the tall?  Perhaps available in northern Europe where the bike-lovers are frequently tall? I once imported a Dutch bike, so purchasing options don't have to be restricted to the U.S. (It did not handle particularly well and made my Cheviot look positively svelte.)My actual Riv experience has been a Cheviot I owned for a couple of years and lusting after a Clem L. I used to live in the Bay Area and went to Walnut Creek on a couple of occasions so I rode a few others, but no memory on the specifics. Sometimes, I think a mixte-style Appaloosa would be ideal (want to get a 64cm Appy for my HE (husband-equivalent). The list of bikes I have owned in my life is obscene and not particularly useful for discussion, especially because it only underscores the lack of rideable bikes for people with atypical geometry. I loved riding my Riv and want that joy again. I am not in a (huge) hurry and will wait for the right ride. Thank you to all the Riv fans answering Qs on the forum!



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[RBW] Re: What to get, what to get....

[jaredwilson]

Leah,

Mine is going to a sweet kid down in Los Angeles as his first Rivendell, 
couldn't be more happy for him.

Kiley was offered first right of refusal on Ariel's bike, I will be listing 
hers in the next day or so. I did however have a dream last night that you 
purchased it as some sort of reserve of Platypus goodness

jared

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:42:49 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I see Jared’s 60 Platy sold…are you the lucky new owner, Kiley? 
> Leah
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 9:53:21 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> @ Kiley - a Rivendell Clem 59cm would fit you best only in size, but your 
>> all around needs as stated by Johnny.
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:37:46 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Rivendell is going to replace the Susie/Gus line with something lugged 
>>> (I think) but that is going to be far down the line. You said you lusted 
>>> after a Clem L. What about one of those? They are at least related to the 
>>> hillybike family (susie/gus) and would meet everything you seem to want.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 6:25:15 PM UTC-4 jaredwilson wrote:
>>>
 Piggybacking on what Joe just said, PM sent :)

 jared
 On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:19:25 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Did you like the Cheviot? The current (slightly longer) version is the 
> Platypus; now with canti/v-brakes I would consider it a low-stepover 
> equivalent to Appaloosa. You would probably ride a 60cm. 
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 2:39:50 PM UTC-7 Kiley Demond wrote:
>
>> Hi- Formerly an active participant, I am now merely an inconsistent 
>> lurker so I may well be asking questions already addressed. I will 
>> gracefully accept links to previous conversations that answer the 
>> questions.
>>
>> Since I am approaching this with a wide range of 'acceptable' 
>> answers, no need to limit responses to Rivendell-only possibilities. I 
>> know 
>> that you know what I mean when asking for certain things, such as a 
>> steel 
>> step-thru frame with great ride-ability and room for wider tires . I 
>> don't have to explain why those things are important. 
>>
>> My dream is a step-thru frame that is long enough in the chain stay 
>> to be stable and handle-well, but not so long as to be cumbersome. With 
>> a 
>> PBH of 91 on a 5'10" person, I need all the help I can get with a large 
>> bike that remains wieldy (I assume that is a word). Ideally, it could be 
>> fitted to be a pedal-assist electric bike at some future time.
>>
>> Riding: 20% pavement, 60% gravel/sand/dirt, 20% trails. Want wide-ish 
>> tires but don't want to be a slug on pavement. (Of course, what I want 
>> and 
>> physics may not agree.)
>>
>> 1. Is there a new Riv bike on the horizon? I vaguely remember reading 
>> about one, but I could be out of step with reality. This Q is the real 
>> impetus of this post.
>> 2. In the non-Riv world, is there anything along these lines? Perhaps 
>> one that may have (the pleasantries of) disc brakes and an internal hub? 
>>  
>> 3. Step-thru frames for the tall?  Perhaps available in northern 
>> Europe where the bike-lovers are frequently tall? I once imported a 
>> Dutch 
>> bike, so purchasing options don't have to be restricted to the U.S. (It 
>> did 
>> not handle particularly well and made my Cheviot look positively svelte.)
>>
>> My actual Riv experience has been a Cheviot I owned for a couple of 
>> years and lusting after a Clem L. I used to live in the Bay Area and 
>> went 
>> to Walnut Creek on a couple of occasions so I rode a few others, but no 
>> memory on the specifics. Sometimes, I think a mixte-style Appaloosa 
>> would 
>> be ideal (want to get a 64cm Appy for my HE (husband-equivalent). The 
>> list 
>> of bikes I have owned in my life is obscene and not particularly useful 
>> for 
>> discussion, especially because it only underscores the lack of rideable 
>> bikes for people with atypical geometry. I loved riding my Riv and want 
>> that joy again. I am not in a (huge) hurry and will wait for the right 
>> ride. 
>>
>> Thank you to all the Riv fans answering Qs on the forum!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: new tires (gravelking, ultradynamico), swrve shorts, VO curvy bar

[Brian Cunningham]

Ultradynamico tires sold as well!

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 2:22:10 PM UTC-7 Brian Cunningham wrote:

> Gravelking 28s are SOLD! 
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 1:42:24 PM UTC-7 Brian Cunningham wrote:
>
>> Happy Friday all, 
>>
>> Unloading some impulsive, gratuitous, and accidental purchases. Hope 
>> someone finds something they could use or can at least laugh at/with me.
>>
>>
>>- *Brand new Ultradynamico 650B Cava JFFs *(*don't be like me and buy 
>>these without having a bike to put them on. "Oh what if I splurge on that 
>>Lightning Bolt frame? Certainly I need these tires." Spoiler: I picked up 
>> a 
>>secondhand Roadini recently instead and went Rivendell-lightweight not 
>>low-trail and really lightweight.)* *$100 for the pair plus shipping.*
>>- *Brand new Panaracer Gravel King Slicks 700X28 **(bought four 
>>somewhere cause the deal was too good, but two would've sufficed! It'll 
>>take me years to wear our the tires on the one bike I own that I run such 
>>skinny tires 'cause it's not in heavy rotation. Is the Riv list a bad 
>> place 
>>to try to unload 28s? Perhaps!).* *$50 for the pair plus shipping.*
>>- *Velo Orange Curvy Bar. **Never installed, just sitting in the 
>>garage. A 31.8mm clamp diameter. Classy looking bar shape.* *Hopefully 
>>you feel classy riding with it. **$35 plus shipping.*
>>- *Swrve lightweight "regular trim short" 34".* . (*Swrve doesn't 
>>believe in vanity sizing so 34 actually measures 34. Inseam is 11", a bit 
>>long for my taste but perhaps good for you. Weathered care tag reads '63% 
>>nylon/27% Coolplus/10% Spandex' and suggests a harder life lived than the 
>>garment otherwise indicates. Just went through the washing machine but 
>> the 
>>severely cat-allergic should be aware that a feline owns this house. 
>> Shorts 
>>are still in nice shape and lightweight, albeit not quintessentially 
>>Rivendellian. I should really work in sales!) **$30 shipped.*
>>
>> Email me privately if anything strikes your fancy. Thanks!
>>
>> Brian Cunningham
>> Glendale, CA
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Riv Rider Recipes

[Patrick Moore]

I'll be interested, both practically and academically,* in what others
consider the ideal diet and I would consider buying a list cookbooks if it
weren't too biased in the direction of "eat nothing but bacon all the time."

I'll start. I don't like to cook, tho' in the past and in the right
circumstances I've cooked largely and well, but living *solus* I find it a
bore. So in addition to certain types of food I prefer simple food; but I
detest poor food and therefore I dislike most prepared foods. Besides all
this, I belong to the Orthodox [Christian] church where fast days --
basically, no animal products, tho' the principle of *economia* always
applies -- outnumber non-fast days. Lastly, I gave up meat entirely for
multiple reasons.

So my repertoire ranges from vegan recipes to spinach quesadillas and
cheese sandwiches with mayo and lettuce and pickles (don't laugh; a good
cheese sandwich goes well with a fine Shiraz). I tend to like breads and,
somewhat less, potatoes and rice -- and beer. My mother controlled type 2
diabetes and incipient heart trouble for 30 years by avoiding salt, fat,
sugar, and eating lots of vegetables, styrofoam chicken breasts, and lots
o' rice, being Filipina. Me, I prefer to ride my bikes.

One very simple vegan recipe that I like: a modified Indian dal recipe.

The basic recipe is cook the dal (I use, in order of preference, red,
orange, or green, but not brown lentils from the bulk bins at Sprout's)
until it is soft but not mushy. You can use vegetable broth in place of
water. Prepare a savory oil: heat 1/8 cup [for large single serving] of
neutrally flavored oil (not olive! which I use for most things) and
"sautee" or "boil" small amounts of some or all of cumin, coriander,
garlic, mustard seed, red pepper, fenugreek, and/or black pepper for 30-60
seconds.

Put lentils on long-grain rice, strain oil and pour over lentils, eat like
this or add any, some, or all of full-fat yogurt, hot Indian mango pickle,
and English sweet chutney.

As I tend to overdo things I've turned this into a lentil stew: sautee
chopped onion, add liquid and cook lentils partially, add chopped spinach,
cook until lentils are soft but not get mushy. Serve as above.

Another recent "recipe" I invented recently because I had little in the
fridge and didn't want to bother shopping: sautee lots of garlic in olive
oil, liberally add red pepper, after a bit add a cup or 2 of peas, I use
frozen, sautee some more until peas thawed and mostly cooked, add 14 oz can
of *full fat* cocoanut milk, cook som more, eat over long grain rice.

Oh, and peanut butter: Sprout's has an inexpensive house brand pure peanut
butter, just peanuts and salt. The oil separates so you have to stir
thoroughly; I store it upside down in the pantry until use, and after
stirring store in the refrigerator. Decent bread and a wee bit of jam with
whole milk ...

Tip: If you cook a lot of dried legumes, get a pressure cooker. Crockpots
are also useful.

[Aside: I am very proud to say that when bringing up my daughter part time
as a single father she never ate prepared foods, not even for school day
breakfasts. (Well, some exceptions: I briefly bought Annie's Mac 'n' Cheese
until I decided it wasn't good enough, and we once tried McDonald's chicken
nuggets -- she got sick. We did order in pizza occasionally.) She got
home-made scrambled eggs and chips in the morning, or real oatmeal,
home-made chicken nuggets and chips in the evening, or else home-made mac
'n' cheese or occasionally home made pizza. One recipe she loved, again
short of ingredients and unwilling to go to Albertson's 1/4 mile away, was
garlic spaghetti: sautee lots of garlic in lots of olive oil, serve over
pasta with grated Romano or Parmesan. She would clamor for this when
friends visited. Funny, now, she is a very accomplished and very inventive
cook; she spontaneously invents interesting recipes based on what
ingredients are at hand.]


*Very odd, now that I think of it, that this term should come to mean
"without practical import" -- I know that this is not *all* that it means,
but it does have this meaning in certain uses. So: "academic" has come to
mean in part, "Not important except for a few isolated eggheads." Now
that's something to think about!

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:41 AM Coco Menk  wrote:

> Hey everyone!
>
> I've got a couple thoughts for this thread -
>
> 1) How many of you all have read Grant's *Eat Bacon, Don't Jog*? Anyone
> subscribe to his food ideas or any other "alternative" diets? Cyclists tend
> to be pretty health-conscious and independent minded, just curious what
> kinds of ideas people are jiving with these days. Vegan? No-carb? 100-mile
> diet? Anything goes? I love hearing about what works for people. I know
> Grant's book has definitely informed my own choices a bit, specifically in
> regards to processed sugar and carbs and simpler forms of exercise. (Not
> looking to sh** on which diet is working or not working for anyone at this
> time! 

Re: [RBW] Ride Report // Île d'Oléron

[John Rinker]

Hey John,

This is a lovely report on what looks to be a fine, relaxing ride. Your 
first photo captures a beautiful sky. I think your line 'the joy is 
exploring' sums the ride up very well, and makes me think we should always 
have kids along if that's what it takes. 

Cheers, John

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 8:31:48 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> @John - YES ! ...  your pictures have shown up here. Thank-you for sharing 
> your bicycle adventure with your family. Your CLEMS look great !  I own 
> one, as well in lime olive. Great bikes to ride.
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 7:18:05 AM UTC-7 John Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hmmm, okay, I warned you that I'm new at this! Let me try again... Do 
>> these show up?
>> [image: 20230811_203434.jpg]
>> [image: 20230811_173157.jpg][image: 20230811_153741.jpg][image: 
>> 20230811_115007.jpg][image: 20230811_114047.jpg][image: 
>> 20230809_103159.jpg]
>> cheers,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:05:33 PM UTC+2 daniell...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John, this sounds like my dream family vacation. Thanks for 
>>> sharing/inspiring! I second Patrick's sentiments and request for a photo 
>>> repost – I'd love to see them!
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:31:01 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 John: Welcome to the group and thanks for the vacation ride report. 

 Can you repost the photos? They did not show up and I expect it's 
 because the files are too big. But from your description they will be well 
 worth seeing.

 Patrick Moore

 On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 3:53 AM John Johnson  
 wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm posting a ride report. It's my first and I hope this meets your 
> rigorous group standards for what a "ride" consists of. For me, a ride is 
> a 
> ride - short or long, intense or easy, fast or party pace. 
>
> Most of my rides these days are with my family (wife and 3 year old 
> son). I am reporting on our week of rides vacationing on the Island of 
> Oléron, of the coast of France (we live inland near Fontainebleau, so 
> Oléron is only a few hours' drive away). Oléron is the second largest 
> Island (after Corsica) in Metropolitan France. It's got a fairly mild 
> climate in winter and summer and the main industries (if you want to call 
> them that) are oyster farming, salt production, and wine growing. So, if 
> you like quiet beaches, bikes, white wine, and oysters, it's not the 
> worst 
> place to spend your vacation. 
>
> We took our 2 Clems, a Burley Bee trailer, and our kid's bike on the 
> bike of the car and drive the 4 and half hours to get to the island, 
> sitting in traffic to get across the bridge until we finally made it to a 
> small BnB in the village of Dolus. We then parked the car and didn't 
> touch 
> it for the rest of the week. All our trips around the island were by bike 
> and it is almost a perfect island for bike exploring on bike paths or 
> dedicated bike lanes (there's only a few places we found where you can't 
> avoid going onto a big main road with not shoulder). There are over 130 
> km 
> of dedicated bike paths on the 30x8km island.
>
> The weather was less than stellar the first day we arrived - it was 
> raining most of the drive to the island, and though the rain had stopped, 
> it was cold and dreary the first day. That first evening we rode down to 
> La 
> Chevalerie for an "Oyster festival" though, I think it was just an ad hoc 
> restaurant that one of the oyster farms set up for people vacationing on 
> the island. Either way, I had the best oysters I've ever had, really 
> great 
> moules frites (which, we probably ate at least once a day while we were 
> there), and decent bottle of local Pineau. We shivered a bit sitting 
> outside with our meal, but once we were back on our bikes and riding 
> through the cold night air, it was extremely pleasant riding weather. 
>
> The rest of the week , it was warm, sunny and yeah, more/less perfect 
> for riding and swimming.
>
> Our rides consisted mostly of riding la Cotinière or St. Pierre 
> d'Oléron a few km away, or a slightly longer ride to St. Trojan les Bains 
> in the south (to ride the famous little train that's there) or go see 
> Fort 
> Boyard from Boyardville. The routes to St Trojan or Boyardville go 
> through 
> tons of oyster-beds, and it's nice rustic scenery to ride through. The 
> island is almost perfectly flat, so there's not much elevation to speak 
> of 
> - most of our rides were meandering around, stopping to look at horses, 
> take photos, or check google maps again because we had gotten off track. 
> Most of the bike routes are gravel or paved, but a few of them went 
> through 
> small forest 

[RBW] Re: Cycling shoes for wide feet?

[Drew Saunders]

I have 10.5  feet. Ducks follow me around as if I'm their leader. 
Birkenstocks fit me well, but otherwise, I have to seek out wide-specific 
shoes. I can also stand on one foot until I'm tired or bored, so super wide 
feet do have their advantages!

I'm in the process of getting the last few hundred miles out of my Shimano 
SPD-compatible "walkable" shoes. Can't remember the model, but they would 
be sold as "mountain bike" shoes, in that there are lugs and stuff to get 
grip. I have Ritchey SPD pedals on my Riv and Ibis, so I guess my 
28mm-tired Riv is a "mountain" bike! ;)

Anyway, when these give up the ghost and/or REI has a sale, I'll try 
whatever cheapest Shimano shoes they have that come in wide. The Stomp Lox 
look intriguing, but they don't make the longer sizes in wide too, which is 
too bad.

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:02:33 AM UTC-7 J wrote:

> I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall with this question 
> for a couple years. I have one regular width foot that can tolerate just 
> about any shoe I put on it and one twice broken foot that can't tolerate 
> anything even slightly constricting in the toe box or pointy. So I normally 
> go with 12EE width equivalent shoes for the forgiving width and volume for 
> everyday use and wear approach shoes and flat pedals for on bike use. I can 
> no longer wear Vans of Converse that made up most of my non work footwear. 
> Any time I'm in a bike shop that has cycling shoes that I like the look of 
> I try them on and haven't yet found something that fits. As ugly I think 
> they are, Stomplox may be the only shoes voluminous enough.
>
> I once tried a friend's pair of very broken in (discontinued) Giro 
> Republic LX and they were a pretty nice fit but I needed a half size 
> bigger. 
>
> I've been stuck on trying a pair of Quoc but they wildly varying opinions 
> on whether they fit wide or narrow always keeps me away from them. Now that 
> Rei is carrying them I may just get a chance to figure out sizing in person 
> the next time I need to make the 2 hour drive to the closest Rei. 
>
> I have a friend with EE high volume feet and loves his Giro Empire VR90 HV 
> (HV discontinued) the HV stands for high volume. I think they look fairly 
> classic as well once you take a black sharpie to the lettering. The non HV 
> pretty classy left alone but I seriously doubt they'd fit. 
>
> The concept of good fit is hamstrung by the fact that brand new leather 
> shoes aren't going to fit the same after breaking in. For the last 10+ 
> years I've immediately soaked a new pair of leather work boots until the 
> leather was saturated then wore them around wet for a few hours to get the 
> leather started breaking in, then letting them dry before ever wearing them 
> to work. Same goes for Brooks saddles, contrary to popular opinion. 
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 10:14:13 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:30:12 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Are there any proper cycling shoes out there that accommodate serious 
>> width? 
>>
>>
>> Thanks for jumping to a new thread ... I probably should have done that, 
>> myself. 
>>
>> Should we start with a definition of "proper cycling shoes" ?  :-)
>>
>> I have found the proliferation of pedals with large platforms to help me 
>> rethink what I am looking for in a cycling shoe. Of course, that also 
>> corresponds with retirement and never doing rides on which I feel the need 
>> to have my feet securely attached to the pedals. On the contrary, I am 
>> finding that being able to shift my feet around is significantly improving 
>> foot comfort on longer rides. It also has been helping me subtly alter the 
>> pedaling dynamics which is recruiting different muscles, which also reduces 
>> fatigue on longer rides. I did a 200km ride Saturday and being able to 
>> change my foot position was very helpful. I think that it's not just having 
>> a wider toe box, but also a more flexible sole that's important to foot 
>> health on long outings. My "theory" is that stiff soles, which are great 
>> for shorter rides with higher power output, are more damaging in the long 
>> run because they don't require the muscles (and attachments) in your feet 
>> and ankles to perform their usual stabilization and support functions. I'm 
>> not a PT/OT/MD, though, so take that for what it's worth. 
>>
>> Still, I appreciate the advantages of stiff soles and secure pedal 
>> connections. Unfortunately, I have yet to find cycling shoes that allow my 
>> forefoot to spread as much as it wants to, and the result has been painful 
>> bunionettes. My Lake MX-1 shoes, on their MX competition last, sadly 
>> discontinued, have been the best I've found. It also helps that they are 
>> tradition lace-up shoes. Well, helped ... apparently there's no market for 
>> that feature anymore.
>>
>> Top tip for checking shoe fit. Pull out the insoles and stand on them. 
>> You'll immediately see 

[RBW] Re: Cycling shoes for wide feet?

['Kurt Henry' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Ted, maybe I should reconsider Sidis?  I had a pair 15+ years ago that I 
never gelled with.  My feet have changed since, so I should be open 
minded.  The great part is that availability is about to become less of an 
issue.  QBP has picked up distribution:  QBP takes over US distribution of 
Sidi shoes | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News 

Kurt Henry
Lancaster, PA
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 11:08:33 AM UTC-4 ted...@gmail.com wrote:

> I started with the Lakes, which are very good. But after some trial and 
> error (and a spat of ordering 7 different shoes shipped to home and 
> returning 6), I’ve settled on the Sidi’s. Not the classic leather look by 
> any stretch, but wider than the widest Lake’s by my feet and feel. 
>
> Pluses for Lake…less expensive, easier to buy (US based mfg website and 
> warehouse), great customer service, great shoes. 
>
> Finding the right size and model from Sidi can be interesting at times. 
> Their US distribution seems….challenged.
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:00:12 PM UTC-5 Kurt Henry wrote:
>
>> Eric, I've recently been on a similar search. My feet are wide, though 
>> not overly so.  The bigger issue for me is that after a few years of 
>> wearing exclusively foot-shaped shoes, such as Birkenstocks, Lems, and 
>> Altras, and wearing Correct Toes to help with Morton's Neuroma, my feet 
>> won't tolerate shoes that bunch up my toes.  My big toes are the worst 
>> offenders and cycling shoes commonly go for a pointy look.  As a result, 
>> even 'wide' cycling shoes that can accommodate high volume feet aren't 
>> generally comfortable for me.  So, please take my thoughts here with a 
>> grain of salt.
>>
>> Bont has a wide fitting that has a decent amount of room but the shape at 
>> the front didn't work for me.  Many models (all?) are heat moldable, making 
>> minor tweaks for comfort a possibility.  I just posted a pair of those on 
>> i-BOB after deciding that a minor adjustment wasn't going to cut it for 
>> me.  
>>
>> I also recently tried a series of Lakes on different lasts.  Lake's Sport 
>> and Competition lasts in wide fittings offer a good bit of room but still 
>> come to a bit of a point.  You might find they work for you, though.  The 
>> Race lasts are available in an extra wide that has a good bit of volume 
>> through the body of the shoe but similarly did not work for me.  Lake has 
>> also introduced a Comfort Plus last (Lake Cycling Shoes – The Comfort 
>> Plus Last 
>> ).  They 
>> might win an award for 'least attractive cycling shoe' and the mountain 
>> version I ordered won't win any weight weenie competitions, but the fit is 
>> really good.  The picture of the sole is not far off from some of the 'foot 
>> shape' shoes.  If you're considering the Stomp Lox, they might be an option.
>>
>> Specialized has a new last for their high-end shoes that they have 
>> modified based on their in-house fittings.  It showed up recently in the 
>> S-Works Recon model (S-Works Recon | Specialized.com 
>> ).  I ordered a pair last week 
>> that I'm pretty certain are going back.  I can confirm that they have more 
>> volume than I expected.  I pulled the insole out and used a half-length 
>> insert with metatarsal pad to free up toe room and it's a...pretty good... 
>> fit.  But I don't want to pay that price for a shoe if the fit is not just 
>> right.
>>
>> Shimano has a tour last (LAST TECHNOLOGY | SHIMANO GEAR 
>> )
>>  
>> that is supposed to be roomier as well.  I have a pair of SH-EX700s that 
>> should land tomorrow.  I'll follow up if those turn out to be a winner.
>>
>> Finally, you already found the Stomp Lox.  I would have ordered a pair of 
>> those earlier in this misadventure had Ron not been sold out.
>>
>> Good luck!
>> Kurt Henry
>> Lancaster, PA
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:30:12 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I noticed some discussion from other widefoot cyclists over in another 
>>> thread about a pair of Dromarti shoes that are for sale. At the risk of 
>>> further drifting a simple For Sale post I thought I'd start a new thread. 
>>>
>>> I wear an 11.5 EEE and just assumed I could never squeeze my foot into 
>>> one of those fine Dromarti road slippers. Their sizing page 
>>>  says they aren't designed for wide 
>>> or "high volume" feet! Are there any proper cycling shoes out there that 
>>> accommodate serious width? 
>>>
>>> The Stomp Lox shoes seem to be vaguely styled after Birkenstocks though 
>>> I don't have any first-hand 

[RBW] Re: NMSW

[Will Boericke]

Just finished D2R2 160K with my A23 rims in NMSW.  No issues.  I will say 
the stopping was less than great until I wore through the layer of 
anodizing.  But that was maybe 30 miles (and before the 160k).  Kool Stop 
salmon FTW.

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 8:55:46 PM UTC-4 Matti wrote:

> I saw this info about the topic on the Riv website page for a complete 
> Appaloosa:
>
> Another caveat: We always prefer non-machined sidewalls because they last 
> longer, but when paired with salmon pads, they squeal until the rims are 
> more broken in. We're including a set of non salmon pads with this bike, so 
> you can swap them out if it's too noisy. A couple rides in the rain or lots 
> of dusty rides should do the trick as well.  See the pads in the pictures.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:19:48 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim brakes. 
>> Poor stopping power? 
>>
>> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out to 
>> a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels and 
>> they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you 
>> all have with 'em. 
>>
>> Thanks 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Albastache Bars

[Johnny Alien]

Sold

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 9:37:55 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I was going to hang onto these but decided against hoarding. I am getting 
> better at this. These are brand new. I mounted them in a faceplatter stem 
> but that was it. No other hardware mounted. Removed and stored. $90 shipped 
> to wherever you are in the USA.

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Re: [RBW] Ride Report // Île d'Oléron

[Kim H.]

@John - YES ! ...  your pictures have shown up here. Thank-you for sharing 
your bicycle adventure with your family. Your CLEMS look great !  I own 
one, as well in lime olive. Great bikes to ride.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 7:18:05 AM UTC-7 John Johnson wrote:

> Hmmm, okay, I warned you that I'm new at this! Let me try again... Do 
> these show up?
> [image: 20230811_203434.jpg]
> [image: 20230811_173157.jpg][image: 20230811_153741.jpg][image: 
> 20230811_115007.jpg][image: 20230811_114047.jpg][image: 
> 20230809_103159.jpg]
> cheers,
>
> John
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:05:33 PM UTC+2 daniell...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> John, this sounds like my dream family vacation. Thanks for 
>> sharing/inspiring! I second Patrick's sentiments and request for a photo 
>> repost – I'd love to see them!
>>
>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:31:01 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> John: Welcome to the group and thanks for the vacation ride report. 
>>>
>>> Can you repost the photos? They did not show up and I expect it's 
>>> because the files are too big. But from your description they will be well 
>>> worth seeing.
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 3:53 AM John Johnson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 I'm posting a ride report. It's my first and I hope this meets your 
 rigorous group standards for what a "ride" consists of. For me, a ride is 
 a 
 ride - short or long, intense or easy, fast or party pace. 

 Most of my rides these days are with my family (wife and 3 year old 
 son). I am reporting on our week of rides vacationing on the Island of 
 Oléron, of the coast of France (we live inland near Fontainebleau, so 
 Oléron is only a few hours' drive away). Oléron is the second largest 
 Island (after Corsica) in Metropolitan France. It's got a fairly mild 
 climate in winter and summer and the main industries (if you want to call 
 them that) are oyster farming, salt production, and wine growing. So, if 
 you like quiet beaches, bikes, white wine, and oysters, it's not the worst 
 place to spend your vacation. 

 We took our 2 Clems, a Burley Bee trailer, and our kid's bike on the 
 bike of the car and drive the 4 and half hours to get to the island, 
 sitting in traffic to get across the bridge until we finally made it to a 
 small BnB in the village of Dolus. We then parked the car and didn't touch 
 it for the rest of the week. All our trips around the island were by bike 
 and it is almost a perfect island for bike exploring on bike paths or 
 dedicated bike lanes (there's only a few places we found where you can't 
 avoid going onto a big main road with not shoulder). There are over 130 km 
 of dedicated bike paths on the 30x8km island.

 The weather was less than stellar the first day we arrived - it was 
 raining most of the drive to the island, and though the rain had stopped, 
 it was cold and dreary the first day. That first evening we rode down to 
 La 
 Chevalerie for an "Oyster festival" though, I think it was just an ad hoc 
 restaurant that one of the oyster farms set up for people vacationing on 
 the island. Either way, I had the best oysters I've ever had, really great 
 moules frites (which, we probably ate at least once a day while we were 
 there), and decent bottle of local Pineau. We shivered a bit sitting 
 outside with our meal, but once we were back on our bikes and riding 
 through the cold night air, it was extremely pleasant riding weather. 

 The rest of the week , it was warm, sunny and yeah, more/less perfect 
 for riding and swimming.

 Our rides consisted mostly of riding la Cotinière or St. Pierre 
 d'Oléron a few km away, or a slightly longer ride to St. Trojan les Bains 
 in the south (to ride the famous little train that's there) or go see Fort 
 Boyard from Boyardville. The routes to St Trojan or Boyardville go through 
 tons of oyster-beds, and it's nice rustic scenery to ride through. The 
 island is almost perfectly flat, so there's not much elevation to speak of 
 - most of our rides were meandering around, stopping to look at horses, 
 take photos, or check google maps again because we had gotten off track. 
 Most of the bike routes are gravel or paved, but a few of them went 
 through 
 small forest tracks and we found ourselves in a bit of mud the first 
 couple 
 nights riding back in the dark after dinner (Google maps has some fun 
 ideas 
 about bike routes - definitely can take you off the beaten path, sometimes 
 right into someone's garden, but always an adventure. After a few er, 
 um... 
 mistakes, we starting paying better attention to the bike path signs and 
 stuck to them a bit more closely). 

 Our pace was probably around 20 km/hour on average, not 

Re: [RBW] Ride Report // Île d'Oléron

[Keith Paugh]

What a beautiful trip!So fun to see the countryside in such lovely places.k.On Aug 21, 2023, at 7:18 AM, John Johnson  wrote:Hmmm, okay, I warned you that I'm new at this! Let me try again... Do these show up?<20230811_203434.jpg><20230811_173157.jpg><20230811_153741.jpg><20230811_115007.jpg><20230811_114047.jpg><20230809_103159.jpg>cheers,JohnOn Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:05:33 PM UTC+2 daniell...@gmail.com wrote:John, this sounds like my dream family vacation. Thanks for sharing/inspiring! I second Patrick's sentiments and request for a photo repost – I'd love to see them!On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:31:01 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:John: Welcome to the group and thanks for the vacation ride report. Can you repost the photos? They did not show up and I expect it's because the files are too big. But from your description they will be well worth seeing.Patrick MooreOn Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 3:53 AM John Johnson  wrote:Hello everyone,I'm posting a ride report. It's my first and I hope this meets your rigorous group standards for what a "ride" consists of. For me, a ride is a ride - short or long, intense or easy, fast or party pace. Most of my rides these days are with my family (wife and 3 year old son). I am reporting on our week of rides vacationing on the Island of Oléron, of the coast of France (we live inland near Fontainebleau, so Oléron is only a few hours' drive away). Oléron is the second largest Island (after Corsica) in Metropolitan France. It's got a fairly mild climate in winter and summer and the main industries (if you want to call them that) are oyster farming, salt production, and wine growing. So, if you like quiet beaches, bikes, white wine, and oysters, it's not the worst place to spend your vacation. We took our 2 Clems, a Burley Bee trailer, and our kid's bike on the bike of the car and drive the 4 and half hours to get to the island, sitting in traffic to get across the bridge until we finally made it to a small BnB in the village of Dolus. We then parked the car and didn't touch it for the rest of the week. All our trips around the island were by bike and it is almost a perfect island for bike exploring on bike paths or dedicated bike lanes (there's only a few places we found where you can't avoid going onto a big main road with not shoulder). There are over 130 km of dedicated bike paths on the 30x8km island.The weather was less than stellar the first day we arrived - it was raining most of the drive to the island, and though the rain had stopped, it was cold and dreary the first day. That first evening we rode down to La Chevalerie for an "Oyster festival" though, I think it was just an ad hoc restaurant that one of the oyster farms set up for people vacationing on the island. Either way, I had the best oysters I've ever had, really great moules frites (which, we probably ate at least once a day while we were there), and decent bottle of local Pineau. We shivered a bit sitting outside with our meal, but once we were back on our bikes and riding through the cold night air, it was extremely pleasant riding weather. The rest of the week , it was warm, sunny and yeah, more/less perfect for riding and swimming.Our rides consisted mostly of riding la Cotinière or St. Pierre d'Oléron a few km away, or a slightly longer ride to St. Trojan les Bains in the south (to ride the famous little train that's there) or go see Fort Boyard from Boyardville. The routes to St Trojan or Boyardville go through tons of oyster-beds, and it's nice rustic scenery to ride through. The island is almost perfectly flat, so there's not much elevation to speak of - most of our rides were meandering around, stopping to look at horses, take photos, or check google maps again because we had gotten off track. Most of the bike routes are gravel or paved, but a few of them went through small forest tracks and we found ourselves in a bit of mud the first couple nights riding back in the dark after dinner (Google maps has some fun ideas about bike routes - definitely can take you off the beaten path, sometimes right into someone's garden, but always an adventure. After a few er, um... mistakes, we starting paying better attention to the bike path signs and stuck to them a bit more closely). Our pace was probably around 20 km/hour on average, not fast riding for sure, but definitely taking in the scenery. And with a kid on board, the joy is exploring, rather than fast riding anyway. He kept up his own though, riding a few kilometers here and there when we were in dedicated bike paths and getting in the trailer or the child seat for the longer rides. And Oléron proved to be ruggedly beautiful, blue-collar, calm, with lots to explore: everything you'd want in a family vacation by bike. Anyway, that's my "ride report". And here are a few photos.cheers,John



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[RBW] Re: Cycling shoes for wide feet?

[Ted Fay]

I started with the Lakes, which are very good. But after some trial and 
error (and a spat of ordering 7 different shoes shipped to home and 
returning 6), I’ve settled on the Sidi’s. Not the classic leather look by 
any stretch, but wider than the widest Lake’s by my feet and feel. 

Pluses for Lake…less expensive, easier to buy (US based mfg website and 
warehouse), great customer service, great shoes. 

Finding the right size and model from Sidi can be interesting at times. 
Their US distribution seems….challenged.

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 10:00:12 PM UTC-5 Kurt Henry wrote:

> Eric, I've recently been on a similar search. My feet are wide, though not 
> overly so.  The bigger issue for me is that after a few years of wearing 
> exclusively foot-shaped shoes, such as Birkenstocks, Lems, and Altras, and 
> wearing Correct Toes to help with Morton's Neuroma, my feet won't tolerate 
> shoes that bunch up my toes.  My big toes are the worst offenders and 
> cycling shoes commonly go for a pointy look.  As a result, even 'wide' 
> cycling shoes that can accommodate high volume feet aren't generally 
> comfortable for me.  So, please take my thoughts here with a grain of salt.
>
> Bont has a wide fitting that has a decent amount of room but the shape at 
> the front didn't work for me.  Many models (all?) are heat moldable, making 
> minor tweaks for comfort a possibility.  I just posted a pair of those on 
> i-BOB after deciding that a minor adjustment wasn't going to cut it for 
> me.  
>
> I also recently tried a series of Lakes on different lasts.  Lake's Sport 
> and Competition lasts in wide fittings offer a good bit of room but still 
> come to a bit of a point.  You might find they work for you, though.  The 
> Race lasts are available in an extra wide that has a good bit of volume 
> through the body of the shoe but similarly did not work for me.  Lake has 
> also introduced a Comfort Plus last (Lake Cycling Shoes – The Comfort 
> Plus Last ).  
> They might win an award for 'least attractive cycling shoe' and the 
> mountain version I ordered won't win any weight weenie competitions, but 
> the fit is really good.  The picture of the sole is not far off from some 
> of the 'foot shape' shoes.  If you're considering the Stomp Lox, they might 
> be an option.
>
> Specialized has a new last for their high-end shoes that they have 
> modified based on their in-house fittings.  It showed up recently in the 
> S-Works Recon model (S-Works Recon | Specialized.com 
> ).  I ordered a pair last week 
> that I'm pretty certain are going back.  I can confirm that they have more 
> volume than I expected.  I pulled the insole out and used a half-length 
> insert with metatarsal pad to free up toe room and it's a...pretty good... 
> fit.  But I don't want to pay that price for a shoe if the fit is not just 
> right.
>
> Shimano has a tour last (LAST TECHNOLOGY | SHIMANO GEAR 
> )
>  
> that is supposed to be roomier as well.  I have a pair of SH-EX700s that 
> should land tomorrow.  I'll follow up if those turn out to be a winner.
>
> Finally, you already found the Stomp Lox.  I would have ordered a pair of 
> those earlier in this misadventure had Ron not been sold out.
>
> Good luck!
> Kurt Henry
> Lancaster, PA
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:30:12 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I noticed some discussion from other widefoot cyclists over in another 
>> thread about a pair of Dromarti shoes that are for sale. At the risk of 
>> further drifting a simple For Sale post I thought I'd start a new thread. 
>>
>> I wear an 11.5 EEE and just assumed I could never squeeze my foot into 
>> one of those fine Dromarti road slippers. Their sizing page 
>>  says they aren't designed for wide 
>> or "high volume" feet! Are there any proper cycling shoes out there that 
>> accommodate serious width? 
>>
>> The Stomp Lox shoes seem to be vaguely styled after Birkenstocks though I 
>> don't have any first-hand experience. A Birkenstock size 45 fits me well. 
>> According to the sizing chart it seems that both and 11 and 12 size Stomp 
>> Lox will accommodate my foot which measures 26.5cm in circumference. 
>>
>> The Stomp Lox made for Ron's Bikes are all made in Japan. Stomp Lox 
>> available anywhere else are made in China. 
>>
>> Stop Lox official 
>> Stop Lox at Ron's Bikes 
>> 
>>
>> William Lennon 
>>  in 
>> Derbyshire offers classic leather cycling shoes, but they're designed with 
>> flat soles for traditional toe clips. I don't see any wide offerings. 
>>
>> Steel Vintage Bikes 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2023

[Jack Newcomb]

It looks bigger than a 57 to me though. 

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 5:24:10 AM UTC-7 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:

> That Hillborne seems very cheap for a complete bike. 
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 11:01:32 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams wrote:
>
>> SAM HILLBORNE
>> 57cm
>> 1200
>> San Francisco, CA
>>
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/d/portola-valley-rivendell-sam-hillborne/7657012769.html
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cycling shoes for wide feet?

[Eric Marth]

Thanks for the notes, everyone. 

Ted: By proper cycling shoes I mean something that takes a cleat and lets 
you fit your big old EEE in there comfortably. I haven't tried any clipless 
pedals but I've been curious. Part of my research has been seeking out an 
appropriate shoe. Watching your foot spill over and obscure the insole is 
really something. That's a great tip for a check of the true size of the 
shoe. 

Definitely see the advantages of flat pedals for longer rides and general 
practicality. Regarding regular shoes for bikes, I've found that a plain 
old Samba in size 11.5 works well enough for me with flat pedals. Maybe the 
Velo Samba would suit me. I also like the Bedrock cairn sandals with the 
flat footbed. Sometimes I can dig Blundstones but I usually forget to raise 
my saddle enough to accommodate them and I'm a little less comfortable 
riding. While I like Birks I don't find them particularly good for riding, 
though I've done up to 25 miles in my Londons. 

I love the look of a traditional black or brown leather cycling shoe with 
minimal adornment. But my foot isn't slender and doesn't come to a fine 
point at the end. 

Kurt: Sounds like your explorations have been wide-ranging! Thanks for the 
links, these are all new to me. Not sure when Ron's getting more Stomp Lox 
but I'd wager he has some coming... some day. 

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 10:14:13 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:30:12 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Are there any proper cycling shoes out there that accommodate serious 
> width? 
>
>
> Thanks for jumping to a new thread ... I probably should have done that, 
> myself. 
>
> Should we start with a definition of "proper cycling shoes" ?  :-)
>
> I have found the proliferation of pedals with large platforms to help me 
> rethink what I am looking for in a cycling shoe. Of course, that also 
> corresponds with retirement and never doing rides on which I feel the need 
> to have my feet securely attached to the pedals. On the contrary, I am 
> finding that being able to shift my feet around is significantly improving 
> foot comfort on longer rides. It also has been helping me subtly alter the 
> pedaling dynamics which is recruiting different muscles, which also reduces 
> fatigue on longer rides. I did a 200km ride Saturday and being able to 
> change my foot position was very helpful. I think that it's not just having 
> a wider toe box, but also a more flexible sole that's important to foot 
> health on long outings. My "theory" is that stiff soles, which are great 
> for shorter rides with higher power output, are more damaging in the long 
> run because they don't require the muscles (and attachments) in your feet 
> and ankles to perform their usual stabilization and support functions. I'm 
> not a PT/OT/MD, though, so take that for what it's worth. 
>
> Still, I appreciate the advantages of stiff soles and secure pedal 
> connections. Unfortunately, I have yet to find cycling shoes that allow my 
> forefoot to spread as much as it wants to, and the result has been painful 
> bunionettes. My Lake MX-1 shoes, on their MX competition last, sadly 
> discontinued, have been the best I've found. It also helps that they are 
> tradition lace-up shoes. Well, helped ... apparently there's no market for 
> that feature anymore.
>
> Top tip for checking shoe fit. Pull out the insoles and stand on them. 
> You'll immediately see the difference between the shoe shape and your foot 
> shape. It's kind of scary, though ... fair warning!
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>
>

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[RBW] Riv Rider Recipes

[Coco Menk]

Hey everyone! 

I've got a couple thoughts for this thread - 

1) How many of you all have read Grant's *Eat Bacon, Don't Jog*? Anyone 
subscribe to his food ideas or any other "alternative" diets? Cyclists tend 
to be pretty health-conscious and independent minded, just curious what 
kinds of ideas people are jiving with these days. Vegan? No-carb? 100-mile 
diet? Anything goes? I love hearing about what works for people. I know 
Grant's book has definitely informed my own choices a bit, specifically in 
regards to processed sugar and carbs and simpler forms of exercise. (Not 
looking to sh** on which diet is working or not working for anyone at this 
time! Save that for a different thread)

2) I'd love to compile a collection of favorite recipes! What do you make 
for yourselves/your families? What's your favorite sandwich you bring on 
your bike rides? Any bike tour go-to's?

3) If I were to compile the recipes into a nice looking book/zine, would 
that be something folks would be interested in purchasing? 

Stay people powered!
xx
Coco

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[RBW] Re: Cycling shoes for wide feet?

[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:30:12 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

Are there any proper cycling shoes out there that accommodate serious 
width? 


Thanks for jumping to a new thread ... I probably should have done that, 
myself. 

Should we start with a definition of "proper cycling shoes" ?  :-)

I have found the proliferation of pedals with large platforms to help me 
rethink what I am looking for in a cycling shoe. Of course, that also 
corresponds with retirement and never doing rides on which I feel the need 
to have my feet securely attached to the pedals. On the contrary, I am 
finding that being able to shift my feet around is significantly improving 
foot comfort on longer rides. It also has been helping me subtly alter the 
pedaling dynamics which is recruiting different muscles, which also reduces 
fatigue on longer rides. I did a 200km ride Saturday and being able to 
change my foot position was very helpful. I think that it's not just having 
a wider toe box, but also a more flexible sole that's important to foot 
health on long outings. My "theory" is that stiff soles, which are great 
for shorter rides with higher power output, are more damaging in the long 
run because they don't require the muscles (and attachments) in your feet 
and ankles to perform their usual stabilization and support functions. I'm 
not a PT/OT/MD, though, so take that for what it's worth. 

Still, I appreciate the advantages of stiff soles and secure pedal 
connections. Unfortunately, I have yet to find cycling shoes that allow my 
forefoot to spread as much as it wants to, and the result has been painful 
bunionettes. My Lake MX-1 shoes, on their MX competition last, sadly 
discontinued, have been the best I've found. It also helps that they are 
tradition lace-up shoes. Well, helped ... apparently there's no market for 
that feature anymore.

Top tip for checking shoe fit. Pull out the insoles and stand on them. 
You'll immediately see the difference between the shoe shape and your foot 
shape. It's kind of scary, though ... fair warning!

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Ride Report // Île d'Oléron

[danielle da cruz]

John, this sounds like my dream family vacation. Thanks for 
sharing/inspiring! I second Patrick's sentiments and request for a photo 
repost – I'd love to see them!

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:31:01 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> John: Welcome to the group and thanks for the vacation ride report. 
>
> Can you repost the photos? They did not show up and I expect it's because 
> the files are too big. But from your description they will be well worth 
> seeing.
>
> Patrick Moore
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 3:53 AM John Johnson  
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm posting a ride report. It's my first and I hope this meets your 
>> rigorous group standards for what a "ride" consists of. For me, a ride is a 
>> ride - short or long, intense or easy, fast or party pace. 
>>
>> Most of my rides these days are with my family (wife and 3 year old son). 
>> I am reporting on our week of rides vacationing on the Island of Oléron, of 
>> the coast of France (we live inland near Fontainebleau, so Oléron is only a 
>> few hours' drive away). Oléron is the second largest Island (after Corsica) 
>> in Metropolitan France. It's got a fairly mild climate in winter and summer 
>> and the main industries (if you want to call them that) are oyster farming, 
>> salt production, and wine growing. So, if you like quiet beaches, bikes, 
>> white wine, and oysters, it's not the worst place to spend your vacation. 
>>
>> We took our 2 Clems, a Burley Bee trailer, and our kid's bike on the bike 
>> of the car and drive the 4 and half hours to get to the island, sitting in 
>> traffic to get across the bridge until we finally made it to a small BnB in 
>> the village of Dolus. We then parked the car and didn't touch it for the 
>> rest of the week. All our trips around the island were by bike and it is 
>> almost a perfect island for bike exploring on bike paths or dedicated bike 
>> lanes (there's only a few places we found where you can't avoid going onto 
>> a big main road with not shoulder). There are over 130 km of dedicated bike 
>> paths on the 30x8km island.
>>
>> The weather was less than stellar the first day we arrived - it was 
>> raining most of the drive to the island, and though the rain had stopped, 
>> it was cold and dreary the first day. That first evening we rode down to La 
>> Chevalerie for an "Oyster festival" though, I think it was just an ad hoc 
>> restaurant that one of the oyster farms set up for people vacationing on 
>> the island. Either way, I had the best oysters I've ever had, really great 
>> moules frites (which, we probably ate at least once a day while we were 
>> there), and decent bottle of local Pineau. We shivered a bit sitting 
>> outside with our meal, but once we were back on our bikes and riding 
>> through the cold night air, it was extremely pleasant riding weather. 
>>
>> The rest of the week , it was warm, sunny and yeah, more/less perfect for 
>> riding and swimming.
>>
>> Our rides consisted mostly of riding la Cotinière or St. Pierre d'Oléron 
>> a few km away, or a slightly longer ride to St. Trojan les Bains in the 
>> south (to ride the famous little train that's there) or go see Fort Boyard 
>> from Boyardville. The routes to St Trojan or Boyardville go through tons of 
>> oyster-beds, and it's nice rustic scenery to ride through. The island is 
>> almost perfectly flat, so there's not much elevation to speak of - most of 
>> our rides were meandering around, stopping to look at horses, take photos, 
>> or check google maps again because we had gotten off track. Most of the 
>> bike routes are gravel or paved, but a few of them went through small 
>> forest tracks and we found ourselves in a bit of mud the first couple 
>> nights riding back in the dark after dinner (Google maps has some fun ideas 
>> about bike routes - definitely can take you off the beaten path, sometimes 
>> right into someone's garden, but always an adventure. After a few er, um... 
>> mistakes, we starting paying better attention to the bike path signs and 
>> stuck to them a bit more closely). 
>>
>> Our pace was probably around 20 km/hour on average, not fast riding for 
>> sure, but definitely taking in the scenery. And with a kid on board, the 
>> joy is exploring, rather than fast riding anyway. He kept up his own 
>> though, riding a few kilometers here and there when we were in dedicated 
>> bike paths and getting in the trailer or the child seat for the longer 
>> rides. And Oléron proved to be ruggedly beautiful, blue-collar, calm, with 
>> lots to explore: everything you'd want in a family vacation by bike. 
>>
>> Anyway, that's my "ride report". And here are a few photos.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> John
>>
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit 

Re: [RBW] Ride Report // Île d'Oléron

[Patrick Moore]

John: Welcome to the group and thanks for the vacation ride report.

Can you repost the photos? They did not show up and I expect it's because
the files are too big. But from your description they will be well worth
seeing.

Patrick Moore

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 3:53 AM John Johnson 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm posting a ride report. It's my first and I hope this meets your
> rigorous group standards for what a "ride" consists of. For me, a ride is a
> ride - short or long, intense or easy, fast or party pace.
>
> Most of my rides these days are with my family (wife and 3 year old son).
> I am reporting on our week of rides vacationing on the Island of Oléron, of
> the coast of France (we live inland near Fontainebleau, so Oléron is only a
> few hours' drive away). Oléron is the second largest Island (after Corsica)
> in Metropolitan France. It's got a fairly mild climate in winter and summer
> and the main industries (if you want to call them that) are oyster farming,
> salt production, and wine growing. So, if you like quiet beaches, bikes,
> white wine, and oysters, it's not the worst place to spend your vacation.
>
> We took our 2 Clems, a Burley Bee trailer, and our kid's bike on the bike
> of the car and drive the 4 and half hours to get to the island, sitting in
> traffic to get across the bridge until we finally made it to a small BnB in
> the village of Dolus. We then parked the car and didn't touch it for the
> rest of the week. All our trips around the island were by bike and it is
> almost a perfect island for bike exploring on bike paths or dedicated bike
> lanes (there's only a few places we found where you can't avoid going onto
> a big main road with not shoulder). There are over 130 km of dedicated bike
> paths on the 30x8km island.
>
> The weather was less than stellar the first day we arrived - it was
> raining most of the drive to the island, and though the rain had stopped,
> it was cold and dreary the first day. That first evening we rode down to La
> Chevalerie for an "Oyster festival" though, I think it was just an ad hoc
> restaurant that one of the oyster farms set up for people vacationing on
> the island. Either way, I had the best oysters I've ever had, really great
> moules frites (which, we probably ate at least once a day while we were
> there), and decent bottle of local Pineau. We shivered a bit sitting
> outside with our meal, but once we were back on our bikes and riding
> through the cold night air, it was extremely pleasant riding weather.
>
> The rest of the week , it was warm, sunny and yeah, more/less perfect for
> riding and swimming.
>
> Our rides consisted mostly of riding la Cotinière or St. Pierre d'Oléron a
> few km away, or a slightly longer ride to St. Trojan les Bains in the south
> (to ride the famous little train that's there) or go see Fort Boyard from
> Boyardville. The routes to St Trojan or Boyardville go through tons of
> oyster-beds, and it's nice rustic scenery to ride through. The island is
> almost perfectly flat, so there's not much elevation to speak of - most of
> our rides were meandering around, stopping to look at horses, take photos,
> or check google maps again because we had gotten off track. Most of the
> bike routes are gravel or paved, but a few of them went through small
> forest tracks and we found ourselves in a bit of mud the first couple
> nights riding back in the dark after dinner (Google maps has some fun ideas
> about bike routes - definitely can take you off the beaten path, sometimes
> right into someone's garden, but always an adventure. After a few er, um...
> mistakes, we starting paying better attention to the bike path signs and
> stuck to them a bit more closely).
>
> Our pace was probably around 20 km/hour on average, not fast riding for
> sure, but definitely taking in the scenery. And with a kid on board, the
> joy is exploring, rather than fast riding anyway. He kept up his own
> though, riding a few kilometers here and there when we were in dedicated
> bike paths and getting in the trailer or the child seat for the longer
> rides. And Oléron proved to be ruggedly beautiful, blue-collar, calm, with
> lots to explore: everything you'd want in a family vacation by bike.
>
> Anyway, that's my "ride report". And here are a few photos.
>
> cheers,
>
> John
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>


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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[Patrick Moore]

Of the methods I've read about that is and older one (1960s?) and gives a
lower saddle than others; for me, a saddle quite a bit too low -- I did use
it myself long ago. Of course, all of these methods are simply starting
points.

To the OP: be sure to get your saddle fore-and-aft position in place too as
well as saddle height before making other measurements; and even saddle
tilt in addition to both the forgoing can affect preferred reach to pedals.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 1:20 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest your
> heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, if
> your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never failed me.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:
>
>> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today about a
>> Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self measured -
>> pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently riding an
>> ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so I'm not sure
>> the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a real bicycle.
>> Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH?
>>
>> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next stock.
>>
>> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>>
> --
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> 
> .
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-- 
--
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters,

and other less well defined but still important writing services.

--

*When thou didst not, savage,*

*Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

*A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

*With words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron’s Ortho Bars but no bike conundrum? Buy mine!

[Davey Two Shoes]

Well I've tried to post a photo like 6 times but oh well. 
I put them on my karate monkey and theyre fantastic

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-4 Davey Two Shoes wrote:

> I think I'm going to try and trade a medium frame for a large. Cant keep 
> staring at these in the closet!
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 9:08:57 PM UTC-4 philip@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> If anyone has buyers remorse on the bars…
>>
>> You know where to find me!
>>
>> P. W.
>> ~
>> (917) 514-2207
>> ~
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 14, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Davey Two Shoes  wrote:
>>
>> Hey Lucky,
>> Could you tell me what the standover is for the MB4? Also is there room 
>> for larger tires?
>>
>> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:53:08 AM UTC-4 Lucky wrote:
>>
>>> For anyone who bought Ron’s bars only to find they don’t have a bike to 
>>> put them on, allow me to shamelessly cross post my lovely 1993 MB-4 (for 
>>> sale on iBOB and local CL), which I’m happy to sell without cockpit…
>>> Ron’s bars would suit this bike exceptionally well!
>>> Feel free to e-mail if I actually caught anyone’s interest;)
>>> Liz in Sacramento 
>>> [image: 00707_eKrnb9sdxrf_0CI0t2_600x450.jpg]
>>>
>>> Bridgestone MB-4 Classic 26” ATB - bicycles - by owner - bike sale 
>>> 
>>> sacramento.craigslist.org 
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a3699470-facb-4c1c-a566-5cff1cd32b86n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[Davey Two Shoes]

I use Joe's method as well.

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:20:31 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest your 
> heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, if 
> your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never failed me. 
>
>
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:
>
>> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today about a 
>> Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self measured - 
>> pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently riding an 
>> ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so I'm not sure 
>> the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a real bicycle. 
>> Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH? 
>>
>> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next stock. 
>>
>> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2023

[J S]

That Hillborne seems very cheap for a complete bike. 

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 11:01:32 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams wrote:

> SAM HILLBORNE
> 57cm
> 1200
> San Francisco, CA
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/d/portola-valley-rivendell-sam-hillborne/7657012769.html
>

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Nitto Promenade Bar

[John Johnson]

Hi Michael,

The Cleary Hedgehog looks like a great bike (and great company)! We can't 
get it in Europe as far as I know, but it was one that I considered for 
sure. I'm certainly no expert on the matter of kids bikes, but like any 
good RBW owner's bunch dad I did plenty of online scouring before buying. I 
do know (from this 
site: https://www.twowheelingtots.com/cleary-hedgehog-review/) that the 
Hedgehog has more aggressive geometry than a Woom or Prevelo - due to lower 
stack height and less bar rise. Apparently in 2021, Cleary increased the 
rise on the bars so the position is a bit less aggressive. 

I'd say give it a shot with whatever bike you do buy's standard set up and 
see what needs adjusting. If the promenades end up working, I'd love to 
see! 

I found with the Woom that we needed to lean the bars back a bit (the nice 
thing about the big riser bars that is has is you can lean them back and 
get a closer reach), and we've already raised the saddle height twice in 
about 4 months (growth? more confidence on the bike?).

For the next bike, I expect to keep this one until he's close to 5 years 
old. At that point, I don't know if I'll be so particular about the 2nd 
bike. I was obsessed with making sure he enjoyed riding, so I took this 
first bike purchase probably too seriously. I think by the time he's 5, 
I'll choose something a little cheaper but still reasonable quality. Wooms 
are really great bikes, I just don't think I need to buy a new $400+ bike 
every 2 years when there are other decent options. 

cheers,

John
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:24:56 PM UTC+2 Michael Baquerizo wrote:

> matthew - thanks for that. promenade is less wide than those 'adult' 
> offerings so i'd stick to that
>
> john - i just helped a friend get a bike for their kid. it was labeled as 
> a 3-5 year old bike, the kids are 4 now and the bike has sooo much stretch 
> that he'd really benefit from bars coming back at him. he's doing fine on 
> it he just looks extremely uncomfortable. this is the cleary 16" offering.
>
> while i'm not getting the same bike for my kid, i'm anticipating he'd be 
> stretched out as well. just want something that comes back a bit instead of 
> a straight bar.
>
> what bike are you planning on upgrading to? another woom?
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:28:13 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> I have a 3 year old that rides a Woom 2 (and yes, the balance bike is 
>> definitely a great way to learn. He was on his own after a few days of 
>> trying. I used the advice from this video to help him learn:  few 
>> https://www.islabikes.co.uk/blogs/riding-advice/teach-your-child-to-ride
>> ).
>>
>> I would say that for most kids and their "first bikes", an important 
>> factor in mastering how to ride is good bike design. Weight is maybe the 
>> biggest factor (for a 30 lb kid, the Woom which is pretty much the lightest 
>> bike on the market at 11 lb, is 30% of their weight!) but also the bikes' 
>> geometry and Q factor. I have seen other kids on big box store bikes that 
>> weigh almost the same as they do, trying to learn and struggling, and it 
>> doesn't look like much fun. 
>>
>> Using handlebars designed for adult-sized bikes may throw the little 
>> bike's handling off significantly (and the promenades are almost a pound 
>> all by themselves). I would also put forward that the promenade is a swept 
>> back bar, and most kid's bikes are designed around flat bars. He'd likely 
>> be cramped and have a hard time turning the bars (unless you put a long 
>> stem on the bike - more weight - but even then, I think the bars would take 
>> up a lot of space). I mention all of this, because I've thought about the 
>> same thing as you for my kid. I want him on a bike that has the same 
>> aesthetic that I love in bikes... but yeah, between a bike that weighs 11 
>> lbs rather than a bike that looks pretty cool but weighs closer to 18 lbs 
>> (Veloretti kids bikes, for example) - I'll take the trade off that my kid 
>> enjoys riding and takes pride in mastering something. He's 3 years and a 
>> few months and is already riding very independently (we did 10 km to a 
>> local watering hole last week) - that's what's been the most important 
>> thing for me. I'd also say that comfort (swept back vs. flat bars) is less 
>> of an issue for a young rider doing a few km at most.
>>
>> I'd say when you get to 5-8 year old bike sizes, you might be able to Riv 
>> it out a bit more.
>>
>> best of luck either way and cheers,
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:40:48 AM UTC+2 Matthew Williams wrote:
>>
>>> These have been on CraigsList for a while:
>>>
>>> [image: 00J0J_eiwKm7570xu_0t20t2_600x450.jpg]
>>>
>>> Nitto Choco Handlebar B357AAF - bicycle parts - by owner - bike sale 
>>> 
>>> losangeles.craigslist.org 
>>> 

[RBW] Re: What to get, what to get....

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I see Jared’s 60 Platy sold…are you the lucky new owner, Kiley? 
Leah

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 9:53:21 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> @ Kiley - a Rivendell Clem 59cm would fit you best only in size, but your 
> all around needs as stated by Johnny.
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:37:46 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Rivendell is going to replace the Susie/Gus line with something lugged (I 
>> think) but that is going to be far down the line. You said you lusted after 
>> a Clem L. What about one of those? They are at least related to the 
>> hillybike family (susie/gus) and would meet everything you seem to want.
>>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 6:25:15 PM UTC-4 jaredwilson wrote:
>>
>>> Piggybacking on what Joe just said, PM sent :)
>>>
>>> jared
>>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 3:19:25 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Did you like the Cheviot? The current (slightly longer) version is the 
 Platypus; now with canti/v-brakes I would consider it a low-stepover 
 equivalent to Appaloosa. You would probably ride a 60cm. 

 On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 2:39:50 PM UTC-7 Kiley Demond wrote:

> Hi- Formerly an active participant, I am now merely an inconsistent 
> lurker so I may well be asking questions already addressed. I will 
> gracefully accept links to previous conversations that answer the 
> questions.
>
> Since I am approaching this with a wide range of 'acceptable' answers, 
> no need to limit responses to Rivendell-only possibilities. I know that 
> you 
> know what I mean when asking for certain things, such as a steel 
> step-thru 
> frame with great ride-ability and room for wider tires . I don't have to 
> explain why those things are important. 
>
> My dream is a step-thru frame that is long enough in the chain stay to 
> be stable and handle-well, but not so long as to be cumbersome. With a 
> PBH 
> of 91 on a 5'10" person, I need all the help I can get with a large bike 
> that remains wieldy (I assume that is a word). Ideally, it could be 
> fitted 
> to be a pedal-assist electric bike at some future time.
>
> Riding: 20% pavement, 60% gravel/sand/dirt, 20% trails. Want wide-ish 
> tires but don't want to be a slug on pavement. (Of course, what I want 
> and 
> physics may not agree.)
>
> 1. Is there a new Riv bike on the horizon? I vaguely remember reading 
> about one, but I could be out of step with reality. This Q is the real 
> impetus of this post.
> 2. In the non-Riv world, is there anything along these lines? Perhaps 
> one that may have (the pleasantries of) disc brakes and an internal hub?  
> 3. Step-thru frames for the tall?  Perhaps available in northern 
> Europe where the bike-lovers are frequently tall? I once imported a Dutch 
> bike, so purchasing options don't have to be restricted to the U.S. (It 
> did 
> not handle particularly well and made my Cheviot look positively svelte.)
>
> My actual Riv experience has been a Cheviot I owned for a couple of 
> years and lusting after a Clem L. I used to live in the Bay Area and went 
> to Walnut Creek on a couple of occasions so I rode a few others, but no 
> memory on the specifics. Sometimes, I think a mixte-style Appaloosa would 
> be ideal (want to get a 64cm Appy for my HE (husband-equivalent). The 
> list 
> of bikes I have owned in my life is obscene and not particularly useful 
> for 
> discussion, especially because it only underscores the lack of rideable 
> bikes for people with atypical geometry. I loved riding my Riv and want 
> that joy again. I am not in a (huge) hurry and will wait for the right 
> ride. 
>
> Thank you to all the Riv fans answering Qs on the forum!
>


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Re: [RBW] WTB: Nitto Promenade Bar

[Michael Baquerizo]

matthew - thanks for that. promenade is less wide than those 'adult' 
offerings so i'd stick to that

john - i just helped a friend get a bike for their kid. it was labeled as a 
3-5 year old bike, the kids are 4 now and the bike has sooo much stretch 
that he'd really benefit from bars coming back at him. he's doing fine on 
it he just looks extremely uncomfortable. this is the cleary 16" offering.

while i'm not getting the same bike for my kid, i'm anticipating he'd be 
stretched out as well. just want something that comes back a bit instead of 
a straight bar.

what bike are you planning on upgrading to? another woom?

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:28:13 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> I have a 3 year old that rides a Woom 2 (and yes, the balance bike is 
> definitely a great way to learn. He was on his own after a few days of 
> trying. I used the advice from this video to help him learn:  few 
> https://www.islabikes.co.uk/blogs/riding-advice/teach-your-child-to-ride).
>
> I would say that for most kids and their "first bikes", an important 
> factor in mastering how to ride is good bike design. Weight is maybe the 
> biggest factor (for a 30 lb kid, the Woom which is pretty much the lightest 
> bike on the market at 11 lb, is 30% of their weight!) but also the bikes' 
> geometry and Q factor. I have seen other kids on big box store bikes that 
> weigh almost the same as they do, trying to learn and struggling, and it 
> doesn't look like much fun. 
>
> Using handlebars designed for adult-sized bikes may throw the little 
> bike's handling off significantly (and the promenades are almost a pound 
> all by themselves). I would also put forward that the promenade is a swept 
> back bar, and most kid's bikes are designed around flat bars. He'd likely 
> be cramped and have a hard time turning the bars (unless you put a long 
> stem on the bike - more weight - but even then, I think the bars would take 
> up a lot of space). I mention all of this, because I've thought about the 
> same thing as you for my kid. I want him on a bike that has the same 
> aesthetic that I love in bikes... but yeah, between a bike that weighs 11 
> lbs rather than a bike that looks pretty cool but weighs closer to 18 lbs 
> (Veloretti kids bikes, for example) - I'll take the trade off that my kid 
> enjoys riding and takes pride in mastering something. He's 3 years and a 
> few months and is already riding very independently (we did 10 km to a 
> local watering hole last week) - that's what's been the most important 
> thing for me. I'd also say that comfort (swept back vs. flat bars) is less 
> of an issue for a young rider doing a few km at most.
>
> I'd say when you get to 5-8 year old bike sizes, you might be able to Riv 
> it out a bit more.
>
> best of luck either way and cheers,
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:40:48 AM UTC+2 Matthew Williams wrote:
>
>> These have been on CraigsList for a while:
>>
>> [image: 00J0J_eiwKm7570xu_0t20t2_600x450.jpg]
>>
>> Nitto Choco Handlebar B357AAF - bicycle parts - by owner - bike sale 
>> 
>> losangeles.craigslist.org 
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 20, 2023, at 3:50 PM, Michael Baquerizo  
>> wrote:
>>
>> or maybe just to talk about it?
>>
>> my son is due to upgrade from a balance bike to a pedal bike and because 
>> i'm me I want to switch things up a bit on whatever frame I end up buying 
>> him. I was intrigued that the bosco is just a bigger promenade bar so was 
>> wondering if anyone has experience with it and if it might be too much for 
>> a 4 year old. 
>>
>> and if its cheap enough (they're already one of the cheaper nitto 
>> offerings) i'd love to take a pair of someones hands.
>>
>> thoughts?
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e5efc93b-e68d-4ac5-8a01-97155248ce08n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Ride Report // Île d'Oléron

[John Johnson]

Hello everyone,

I'm posting a ride report. It's my first and I hope this meets your 
rigorous group standards for what a "ride" consists of. For me, a ride is a 
ride - short or long, intense or easy, fast or party pace. 

Most of my rides these days are with my family (wife and 3 year old son). I 
am reporting on our week of rides vacationing on the Island of Oléron, of 
the coast of France (we live inland near Fontainebleau, so Oléron is only a 
few hours' drive away). Oléron is the second largest Island (after Corsica) 
in Metropolitan France. It's got a fairly mild climate in winter and summer 
and the main industries (if you want to call them that) are oyster farming, 
salt production, and wine growing. So, if you like quiet beaches, bikes, 
white wine, and oysters, it's not the worst place to spend your vacation. 

We took our 2 Clems, a Burley Bee trailer, and our kid's bike on the bike 
of the car and drive the 4 and half hours to get to the island, sitting in 
traffic to get across the bridge until we finally made it to a small BnB in 
the village of Dolus. We then parked the car and didn't touch it for the 
rest of the week. All our trips around the island were by bike and it is 
almost a perfect island for bike exploring on bike paths or dedicated bike 
lanes (there's only a few places we found where you can't avoid going onto 
a big main road with not shoulder). There are over 130 km of dedicated bike 
paths on the 30x8km island.

The weather was less than stellar the first day we arrived - it was raining 
most of the drive to the island, and though the rain had stopped, it was 
cold and dreary the first day. That first evening we rode down to La 
Chevalerie for an "Oyster festival" though, I think it was just an ad hoc 
restaurant that one of the oyster farms set up for people vacationing on 
the island. Either way, I had the best oysters I've ever had, really great 
moules frites (which, we probably ate at least once a day while we were 
there), and decent bottle of local Pineau. We shivered a bit sitting 
outside with our meal, but once we were back on our bikes and riding 
through the cold night air, it was extremely pleasant riding weather. 

The rest of the week , it was warm, sunny and yeah, more/less perfect for 
riding and swimming.

Our rides consisted mostly of riding la Cotinière or St. Pierre d'Oléron a 
few km away, or a slightly longer ride to St. Trojan les Bains in the south 
(to ride the famous little train that's there) or go see Fort Boyard from 
Boyardville. The routes to St Trojan or Boyardville go through tons of 
oyster-beds, and it's nice rustic scenery to ride through. The island is 
almost perfectly flat, so there's not much elevation to speak of - most of 
our rides were meandering around, stopping to look at horses, take photos, 
or check google maps again because we had gotten off track. Most of the 
bike routes are gravel or paved, but a few of them went through small 
forest tracks and we found ourselves in a bit of mud the first couple 
nights riding back in the dark after dinner (Google maps has some fun ideas 
about bike routes - definitely can take you off the beaten path, sometimes 
right into someone's garden, but always an adventure. After a few er, um... 
mistakes, we starting paying better attention to the bike path signs and 
stuck to them a bit more closely). 

Our pace was probably around 20 km/hour on average, not fast riding for 
sure, but definitely taking in the scenery. And with a kid on board, the 
joy is exploring, rather than fast riding anyway. He kept up his own 
though, riding a few kilometers here and there when we were in dedicated 
bike paths and getting in the trailer or the child seat for the longer 
rides. And Oléron proved to be ruggedly beautiful, blue-collar, calm, with 
lots to explore: everything you'd want in a family vacation by bike. 

Anyway, that's my "ride report". And here are a few photos.

cheers,

John

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Nitto Promenade Bar

[John Johnson]

Hi Michael,

I have a 3 year old that rides a Woom 2 (and yes, the balance bike is 
definitely a great way to learn. He was on his own after a few days of 
trying. I used the advice from this video to help him learn:  
few https://www.islabikes.co.uk/blogs/riding-advice/teach-your-child-to-ride).

I would say that for most kids and their "first bikes", an important factor 
in mastering how to ride is good bike design. Weight is maybe the biggest 
factor (for a 30 lb kid, the Woom which is pretty much the lightest bike on 
the market at 11 lb, is 30% of their weight!) but also the bikes' geometry 
and Q factor. I have seen other kids on big box store bikes that weigh 
almost the same as they do, trying to learn and struggling, and it doesn't 
look like much fun. 

Using handlebars designed for adult-sized bikes may throw the little bike's 
handling off significantly (and the promenades are almost a pound all by 
themselves). I would also put forward that the promenade is a swept back 
bar, and most kid's bikes are designed around flat bars. He'd likely be 
cramped and have a hard time turning the bars (unless you put a long stem 
on the bike - more weight - but even then, I think the bars would take up a 
lot of space). I mention all of this, because I've thought about the same 
thing as you for my kid. I want him on a bike that has the same aesthetic 
that I love in bikes... but yeah, between a bike that weighs 11 lbs rather 
than a bike that looks pretty cool but weighs closer to 18 lbs (Veloretti 
kids bikes, for example) - I'll take the trade off that my kid enjoys 
riding and takes pride in mastering something. He's 3 years and a few 
months and is already riding very independently (we did 10 km to a local 
watering hole last week) - that's what's been the most important thing for 
me. I'd also say that comfort (swept back vs. flat bars) is less of an 
issue for a young rider doing a few km at most.

I'd say when you get to 5-8 year old bike sizes, you might be able to Riv 
it out a bit more.

best of luck either way and cheers,

John



On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:40:48 AM UTC+2 Matthew Williams wrote:

> These have been on CraigsList for a while:
>
> [image: 00J0J_eiwKm7570xu_0t20t2_600x450.jpg]
>
> Nitto Choco Handlebar B357AAF - bicycle parts - by owner - bike sale 
> 
> losangeles.craigslist.org 
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2023, at 3:50 PM, Michael Baquerizo  wrote:
>
> or maybe just to talk about it?
>
> my son is due to upgrade from a balance bike to a pedal bike and because 
> i'm me I want to switch things up a bit on whatever frame I end up buying 
> him. I was intrigued that the bosco is just a bigger promenade bar so was 
> wondering if anyone has experience with it and if it might be too much for 
> a 4 year old. 
>
> and if its cheap enough (they're already one of the cheaper nitto 
> offerings) i'd love to take a pair of someones hands.
>
> thoughts?
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e5efc93b-e68d-4ac5-8a01-97155248ce08n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[Joe Bernard]

I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest your 
heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, if 
your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never failed me. 



On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:

> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today about a 
> Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self measured - 
> pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently riding an 
> ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so I'm not sure 
> the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a real bicycle. 
> Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH? 
>
> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next stock. 
>
> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>

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