[RBW] I wish to unsubscribe for now
I will return selectively when I can. Thanks, Ron Farnsworth r2far...@yahoo.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Brifter-friendly triples?
Regarding the Shimano road triples being on the tall side, you do know that you can put together an IRD 13 - 34 in the rear? Mine's a 10 speed though. --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Aaron Thomas aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com wrote: From: Aaron Thomas aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Brifter-friendly triples? To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 4:05 PM In the past I've used Campy ergo levers with a triple and it worked flawlessly. I don't recall whether the rings were even ramped/pinned. You just need to get the appropriate Jtek Shiftmate rollamajig thing for your derailleur/cassette match-up: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm On Apr 8, 11:35 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 10:05 -0700, M. Chandler wrote: Shimano's road triples are too tall for my needs, so I'm wondering if there are brifter-friendly cranks in the 26/36/46 range out there. I've got a Sugino XD triple that's 24/36/48, but the big ring isn't ramped (and I suspect the rings are spaced for an 8-speed chain). Current derailleurs are XT (rear) and Deore (front), so I'd probably need to swap out the Deore for something with the correct cable pull. Cassette is 9-speed, so that probably limits my brifter choice to NOS/ used stuff. So get a ramped, pinned chain ring for it. TA makes them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: good seatstay taillight?
I consider my tail light problems solved for all time. Check out the DiNotte. --- On Tue, 3/16/10, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: From: PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: good seatstay taillight? To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 2:53 PM One thing to keep in mind when using LED tail lights is that they have to be more carefully aimed line-of-sight if the viewer is to get their full brightness; this is not the case with a non-LED strobe, for example. So while you can aim LED blinkies well when they are immovable attached to rack or seatstay or seatpost, when you mount them on something flexible you risk losing some of their effectiveness. Compare the Lightman strobe with an LED flasher. I use a Lightman when I want to attach a flasher to a saddlebag or pannier. The PB SF may be bright enough to be effective even off-axis, but it certainly won't be *as* bright as on-axis. FWIW, I've found that a rather effective tail light is a 2 AA minimag with red-led conversion, strapped under the left chainstay using a 2-Fish vecro/rubber block. Finally, for top quality fender or rack mount tail lights, consider the German traffic spec ones from PJW or Longleaf. The little Spanninga I mounted to the rear fender of the Sam Hill last night is very bright (solid only) and has a built in reflector; and the 4 D Lite Plus (or whatever) by BM, at least the dyno model, is ever brighter. So is the rack mount 4D Toplight Plus (or whatever, strange Cherman names, ja?) On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: I would love to find Superflashes on the road. I clip mine to my back pocket, and it seems to stay there. I have several other flashers that have met the road multiple times. I would love a bright taillight I could mount to a seatstay eyelet or a fender. I have a (busted up and taped back together) Cateye that can be mounted to a reflector mount, but they weigh many ounces. A really nice fender-mount light seems like a perfect Velo-Orange product, or... a Rivendell product. What about a soft plastic curved one you epoxy straight onto the fender? Like a four-inch structured knog, but really bright? Peel off the backing, stick it on. Squeeze it to turn it on, peel it off to change the battery. The battery would have to be lightweight, or stuck to the fender itself. Is there already a nice looking, super-bright fender-mount battery taillight for ~$20? Philip McMinnville, Ore. On Mar 16, 7:13 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: This thread has highlighted for me the core problem I have with almost every bicycle tail light. They are designed to be clip-ons to go on a jersey pocket, messenger bag, etc. Mounting it permanently to the bike is an afterthought. The result is unsatisfactory as the light pops out of the mount, or the clip breaks off, or the part of the mount that attaches to the bike is flimsy plastic, etc. So, that begs the question: is there a GOOD bike taillight that is designed to mount permanently to a seatstay rack braze-on- and not some kludge? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com (505) 227-0523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: good seatstay taillight?
Want to be seen no matter what? Check out the DiNotte tail lights. They make my PB look wimpy. This thing lays down a red splotch on the road and even the cars further back in a passing row will see you and give you room to ride safely. It has a different mounting scheme than the PB, so consider that in your decision. It is nothing short of a different nightride experience. I will never go back to blinky lights again, I am spoiled. --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: good seatstay taillight? To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 6:05 PM On Mar 14, 12:23 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Sun, 2010-03-14 at 13:06 -0600, Bill Connell wrote: My favorite by far is the Planet Bike Superflash light. It comes with mounts to fit both a seatpost and chain/seatstay, uses AAA cells, and is very bright. I have 'em on every bike. I have heard that the Planet Bike Superflash is not well sealed against water, and is very prone to failure in the rain. I've no personal experience with it. I've used a PB Superflash for several years, and recommend it highly. I ride with it in the rain, but usually for 20 minutes at a time or so. Bicycle Quarterly is the only place I've heard of the superflash failing in the rain. I'd probably cut a strip of packing tape to seal the seam if I was planning on multiple multi-hour rain rides. I think Serfas sells the same taillight now, too. Philip -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Hubshiners?
Every kid's bike used to have them way back when. No hardware, just a 4 long, 1/2 strip of leather with a T shaped tab cut on one end and a slot on the other. Never saw one fall off ever., a stick in the road is more like something you should worry about getting into your wheel. --- On Tue, 3/9/10, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Hubshiners? To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 2:38 PM On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:32 PM, cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com wrote: I have to say, I thought these were a joke. Seems like the chance of one of these things coming unsnapped and locking up a wheel are about 50/50. I am surprised that a company as conservative safety wise as Riv would make something like this. Maybe I am way off, but this seems like a very bad idea. Am I crazy? I dunno, doesn't seem like a big concern to me. I made one for the front wheel of my 3 speed a couple of years back - a leather piece connected with a small bolt rather than a snap, but same idea. It's never gotten snagged in a way that would stress it and unsnap the ends. It bounces around a little (mostly because of the oil filler spring clip) and makes a nice sort of sound while i ride, and the front hub stays shiny. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Schwalbe Kojak vs Jack Brown
I got 2 flats last year in about 1000 miles with JB Greens which I ride mostly on paved but with a little gravel and offroad thrown in now and then. Both times it was small glass slivers that made it through (no goatheads around this part of MA). I'm guessing these slivers would not have made it though something with a thicker or tougher tred. I love the way the JB's roll though. For this season I put some of those kevlar strips sold by Riv inside the tires and will try that. Here's a thought, though I'm not serious, but a narrow tire should run over less glass and debris than a wider tire right? So statistically less flats? If you had a tire 1/2 wide, you'd hardly ever get a flat! --- On Fri, 3/5/10, Joe Bartoe jbar...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Joe Bartoe jbar...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [RBW] Re: Schwalbe Kojak vs Jack Brown To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 11:13 AM Hi Mike, I've been running the Jack Brown Greens on my AHH. I weigh the same as you and with fenders,a rack and a bag, and other accoutrement, the bike/rider combo is far from svelte. I commute on this bike quite a bit and haven't run into any difficulties yet. The Greens are nice and supple and ride quite well. They've handled gravely areas and glass-strewn areas and unexpected debris with aplomb. The real question is what kind of roads you ride on. If there are things that tend to flatten your tires (such as goatheads, etc) then maybe go with the tougher tire. For some reason, I have always had worse luck with belted tires versus their unbelted counterparts. The Ruffy Tuffys, Flak-Jacketed tires, and the Conti Gator Skins have all flatted more for me than other tires. Joe Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:26:18 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Schwalbe Kojak vs Jack Brown From: mjawn...@gmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com So I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on some new tires to use for my brevet series this year and am not sure what to do. Last year I rode JB blues and they worked well, only one flat for the entire series. They do seem just a tad sluggish but they do corner well. The sidewalls on my rear seemed to give out before the tread. That said, like a moron, my 190lb self is considering some Greens? I'm also considering Schwalbe Kojaks but am worried they'll run under size. Folks out there have any thoughts. I had also briefly considered Schwalbe Marathon Supremes but they seem like overkill. I guess my number one priority is durability in which case I should probably go with JB blues but I just can't help wanting to try something new and something that might roll a little better. All of these tires are rather pricey so I'm just a bit hesitant to pull the trigger on tires I may not like. Hmmm... Probably not a decision to be made when I'm this caffeinated. Perhaps I'll go for a ride this morning and make my decision when I get back. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
What I think works well is to rubber cement an extra layer of leather across the palm of some cycling gloves to spread out the pressure. Most of the so called padding in cycling gloves is a joke. --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net Subject: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 9:36 AM On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:13 AM, Rene Sterental wrote: Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Hand *pain* when riding is fairly unusual IME. Focal numbness is common enough that there is a name for it: cyclist's palsy or handlebar palsy. It's caused by compression of the ulnar nerve and causes numbness of the ring and little fingers. Sometimes there is pain, from what I've read. Googling for this might find some helpful articles- here's one: http://recoverydoctor.blogspot.com/2009/08/cyclist-palsy-ulnar-neuropathy-handle.html In terms of immediate practical recommendations, play with handlebar angle to see if that helps to get the pressure off the tender area. Try double wrapping the bars or using even a couple of layers of cork tape- a larger diameter might be helpful. There are gel inserts you can buy to go under the tape, too. And as others have said, saddle position and angle might be helpful; for one thing, make sure your saddle is not too high or too far back (ever since Greg Lemond's book, cyclists have been shoving saddles as far back as possible and often too far back). Good luck! --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Advice on cracked SKS fender?
Unless I can't see it well enough, I'm guessing it's not going to lead to a fatigue failure anytime soon. There shouldn't be much flexing going right there, so I think it will be fine. Maybe looking at the area of concern with a 10x or so eye loupe and a good light to determine if it's a real crack or just a machine mark may help you decide. Free info is worth what you pay for it. --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: From: Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Advice on cracked SKS fender? To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 11:29 PM Hi, I purchased a set of Berthoud/SKS fenders (SKS fenders with Berthoud hardware), and the rear came with two 1 long cracks on the back inside. The cracks go all the way through the inner plastic layer to the metal layer. See http://tinyurl.com/yzrq9oc I am wondering if you think this is merely a cosmetic issue (in which case it's a non-issue for me), but I am afraid that it might lead to premature failure. It appears (to me) that the cracks are a manufacturing defect, as one of them ends right at a burr in the cut end of the fender (and the shipping box showed no signs of damage). I am tempted to just give the fenders a go. If you think the cracks would shorten the life of the fender by more than 50%, I probably would try to get an exchange. Any advice on what I might do to help prevent the cracks from growing? Since this is on the inside of the fender, the fix can be perfectly ugly. SeamSeal? Hot glue? Drill a small hole into the end of the crack through the inner plastic layer just to the metal layer, to prevent spreading? Some combination? Thanks, Gernot -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] 59cm AHH fit questions
I'm very slightly taller and bought a 61cm Homer and love the fit. I bet you would find it perfect. --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote: From: Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RBW] 59cm AHH fit questions To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 9:56 AM On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Kentileguy ken_y...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Hi all, I have the opportunity to buy a used 59 cm Hilsen. I'm 5' 9 1/2 with a pbh of 85cm.According to Riv's fit chart a 59cm is the right size for me, but the s.o. is 85 cm -not much clearance if any. Is anyone out there about my size riding a 59cm? If so how does it fit? remember you wear shoes on the bike but not when measuring your pbh. So your pbh + 1-2cm for your shoes == standover closer to 87cm. So you should be fine. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Low-Mounted Headlights
A handlebar mount has some advantages, - the ability to adjust light position while riding - less water (if raining) and debris flying up from the front wheel (even with fenders) - you can use your hand to partially shield the headlight from walkers (or other riders on a bike trail). - easy on/easy off (if that matters) - With my DiNotte, I use 2 handlebar bags with no interference problem --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bill M. bmenn...@comcast.net wrote: From: Bill M. bmenn...@comcast.net Subject: [RBW] Re: Low-Mounted Headlights To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 9:23 PM I've had my pair of home-brewed LED lights on the low-rider bosses on my Miyata, but thought that that was too low. It over-emphasized the road contour and made insignificant undulations look like potholes. The same lights are currently under are currently mounted to the supports under a Nashbar front rack at around top-of-wheel height on my 650b commuter, and I like that position better. Just low enough to see some shadows on the road, but not so low as to create them where they shouldn't be. Also, having the lights up and further forward eliminated the shadows cast by the rim and tire, which is nice. Another thought - if the lights are too low, they will have to be aimed up higher, and so will have more tendency to shine into the eyes of oncoming drivers rather than onto the road surface. Having them higher lets me tilt them down a bit more to put the light where I want it. Axle height would be too low for me. The fender front stay / light hoop on many Ebisus would be perfect. Your lights may vary! Bill On Jan 26, 10:55 am, Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com wrote: I just converted the headlight on my QB to a skewer mount that puts it really low. Does anybody else on this list use headlights mounted that low? Any tips about adjusting them? I know that the lower mount is supposed to help the light cast shadows so it's easier to see debris, holes, etc., but my initial impression (about 1/4 of a mile of testing last night) is that the adjustment of the light is very touchy due to the shallow angle. Thanks in advance. --Eric campyonly...@me.comwww.campyonly.comwww.wheelsnorth.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: East Coast Riv
I also was very reluctant to buy a frame 4cm bigger than anything else I had been riding for the previous 20 years. Went from a 57 cm Merlin to a 61cm Homer and will never look back. I'm now realizing how much a difference comfort and versatility mean to my cycling future. It was a leap, and admittedly a different style of riding, but one that I'm glad I made. My original concern about standover height has long since faded. I don't buy into everything Riv, but I'd recommend everyone take a closer look at what they represent. --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Ethan ethan.bickf...@gmail.com wrote: From: Ethan ethan.bickf...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: East Coast Riv To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:22 AM I'd be happy to as well. But I'm in Massachusetts. Which means there is relatively easy access to a few Rivs at Harris Cyclery. That being said I have a Riv I'd be happy to show off. 66CM Atlantis Ethan Bickford On Jan 12, 8:32 am, Michael Rivers mriver...@gmail.com wrote: Seth Vidal coined a new term: ECWLARBW in another post which stands for East Coast With Limited Access to Rivendell Bicycle Works. I bought my first Riv last year and was frustrated by the inability in seeing a Riv bike before ordering. The folks at Riv were incredibly helpful, but it was still hard to spend alot on a bike over the internet that was 3-4cm different than any previous bike. I would be happy to meet someone who wanted to see a bike, and I bet there are others on the east coast who would be interested as well. Who knows, we may even get a Riv bike ride together like our more fortunate (weather wise) west coast brethren! Current Riv 60cm Ram 60cm QB Michael Rivers Washington, DC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Waxing Well
I hope the Filsen Paste Wax finish is made from something different than the Filson Boot Oil which goes on easy and looks great, but has a tendency to cause mold in humid weather when used on leather. I've had this happen a number of times and have switched to Obenauf's because of this. --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Will wpm...@gmail.com wrote: From: Will wpm...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Waxing Well To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:01 AM Filson makes a paste wax for re-proofing their waxed cotton garments. I've used it on a Baggins with positive results. Hot weather, a heat gun or oven helps the wax to flow into the fabric. I second the vote for the Filson wax (www.filson.com/sm-one-can-of-oil- finish-wax--pi-2092385.html). See application instructions under product details. I know some folks who use a heat gun to apply followed by a cloths dryer just long enough for the wax to flow into the fabric. Gives a beautiful finish. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Waxing Well
I've used the Nikwax Wax Cotton Proof with good results. All I do is spray it on from the bottle (looks like milk), then use a toothbrush to spread it around and brush in where you want it. No problem with puddles or buildup of wax. The neutral may darken the fabric very slightly if it is really dried out to start with, but not much. I've only used this method on previously waxed bags, so don't know how hard it would be to totally saturate previously unwaxed material. --- On Wed, 12/2/09, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: From: erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Waxing Well To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 3:51 PM I'm looking for the word on waxing my canvas equipment properly. So far, I've only waxed the wheel-facing sides of my baggins panniers. This was a few months ago, but I wasn't satisfied with the result. Several months on it hasn't seemed to absorb properly (still waxy in parts) and it really darkened the fabric significantly. How do you wax your cotton in a manner that results in a similar outcome to the original thing. Also, what's the best product to use? I'd be waxing a few baggins bags, a nigel smythe, and *maybe* an acorn rando. Thanks, erik -- berkeley, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Speaking of Cork grips…
Obenauf's melted in with a hair dryer maybe? For dressing the stem ends, try beeswax melted into hemp twine. Wax the twine first, wrap it on, then go over it lightly with a propane torch. The fuzzys burn off. Durable, good looking, doesn't waterlog, and good grip. --- On Sat, 11/28/09, Ray r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Ray r.sh...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [RBW] Speaking of Cork grips… To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 7:27 PM Funny the cork grip thing came up (Great tactile minds think alike?). I was going to post the following question: What range of treatment do tou cork users put on the product? I have typically shellaced mine, but I'm always disappointed afterwards with the feel and look. Certainly I know you can use them just as untreated cork, but what about alternatives to shellac or varnish? I'm thinking bee's wax, linseed, or. . . (help me out, folks) Ray -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Internal Hub Efficiency: What the Experts Say
Bad math. If 96% efficient = 5.2 mph, then 90% efficient would be 4.875 mph, not 5.1 mph. And that's with worst case efficiency numbers for the chain setup and best case efficiency numbers for the IGH. Based on this, the other calculations are off too. Correct me if I'm wrong. --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com wrote: From: Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com Subject: [RBW] Internal Hub Efficiency: What the Experts Say To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 12:35 AM For those who don't have a copy of The Dancing Chain laying around the house, here's a summary of what Frank Berto said about internally geared hubs (IGHs), which is itself a summary of extensive bench testing done in 1998: --Standard derailleur systems achieve 98-99 percent efficiency when the chain is running straight, and 96-97 when in cross-chain mode (such as small cog/small chainring) --Internally geared hubs ranged between 80 and 90 percent efficiency, achieving higher efficiency in lower gears. One IGH tested in direct- drive mode was 95 percent efficient. Berto compared a typical rider (generating 1/8 horsepower) riding up a 4 percent grade in a low (31-inch) gear. --With a standard derailleur bike operating at 96 percent efficiency, the typical rider could climb at 5.2 mph at a cadence of 60 rpm --With an IGH operating at 90 percent, the same rider would be 6 percent less efficient, dropping his/her speed to 5.1 mph Those numbers don't sound too bad, at least for shorter riders. A 4- hour ride on a standard geared bike would take about 4 hours and 15 minutes (or less, since the efficiency of the IGH wouldn't matter at all on downhills). However, applied to an event like PBP, an 84-hour time would become 89 hours if the bike became 6 percent less efficient (or, assuming that half of PBP is more or less downhill, 84 hours would become 87 1/2). I'll continue to test this in the field and see how my Quickbeam's 8- speed Sturmey Archer performs. P.S. No, the vaunted 14-speed Rohloff hub was not part of the '98 test. It's hard to see how it could be too much more efficient than other IGHs, but it could be somewhat closer to a standard setup. P.P.S. If you haven't read The Dancing Chain, you really should. It's a fascinating look back at the early days of cycling, and it proves once again that everything new in bicycling today was in fact invented 100 years ago. Really. --Eric www.wheelsnorth.org www.campyonly.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=.
Re: [RBW] Re: Internal Hub Efficiency: What the Experts Say
The power output says 1/8 hp and I assume that is a fixed value, and I discounted aerodynamics and rolling resistance as well for such a small change in speed. Beyond that, isn't it a simple linear relationship between drivetrain efficiency and speed? After re-reading I think there may have been a simple clerical error in the writing, as the numbers do proportion out to 5.1 mph if one uses the 95% (direct drive mode efficiency of the IGH) instead of the 90% number used in the example. That accounts for what I originally thought may have been a math mistake. --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [RBW] Re: Internal Hub Efficiency: What the Experts Say To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:31 PM Mr. Berto's math is quite close. Power varies with the cube of the speed (speed x speed x speed). 5.2 cubed / 5.1 cubed = 1.060 or about 6% difference in power required. Angus On Nov 19, 8:17 am, Ron Farnsworth r2far...@yahoo.com wrote: Bad math. If 96% efficient = 5.2 mph, then 90% efficient would be 4.875 mph, not 5.1 mph. And that's with worst case efficiency numbers for the chain setup and best case efficiency numbers for the IGH. Based on this, the other calculations are off too. Correct me if I'm wrong. --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com wrote: From: Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com Subject: [RBW] Internal Hub Efficiency: What the Experts Say To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 12:35 AM For those who don't have a copy of The Dancing Chain laying around the house, here's a summary of what Frank Berto said about internally geared hubs (IGHs), which is itself a summary of extensive bench testing done in 1998: --Standard derailleur systems achieve 98-99 percent efficiency when the chain is running straight, and 96-97 when in cross-chain mode (such as small cog/small chainring) --Internally geared hubs ranged between 80 and 90 percent efficiency, achieving higher efficiency in lower gears. One IGH tested in direct- drive mode was 95 percent efficient. Berto compared a typical rider (generating 1/8 horsepower) riding up a 4 percent grade in a low (31-inch) gear. --With a standard derailleur bike operating at 96 percent efficiency, the typical rider could climb at 5.2 mph at a cadence of 60 rpm --With an IGH operating at 90 percent, the same rider would be 6 percent less efficient, dropping his/her speed to 5.1 mph Those numbers don't sound too bad, at least for shorter riders. A 4- hour ride on a standard geared bike would take about 4 hours and 15 minutes (or less, since the efficiency of the IGH wouldn't matter at all on downhills). However, applied to an event like PBP, an 84-hour time would become 89 hours if the bike became 6 percent less efficient (or, assuming that half of PBP is more or less downhill, 84 hours would become 87 1/2). I'll continue to test this in the field and see how my Quickbeam's 8- speed Sturmey Archer performs. P.S. No, the vaunted 14-speed Rohloff hub was not part of the '98 test. It's hard to see how it could be too much more efficient than other IGHs, but it could be somewhat closer to a standard setup. P.P.S. If you haven't read The Dancing Chain, you really should. It's a fascinating look back at the early days of cycling, and it proves once again that everything new in bicycling today was in fact invented 100 years ago. Really. --Ericwww.wheelsnorth.orgwww.campyonly.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=.
[RBW] Re: Gluing cork grips
Hair spray works great on grips, never had one loosen ever even on mt bikes. Spray it on, the grip slides over the bar nicely, in a while it's good forever. Maybe try the extra hold if you have reservations.. (just kidding). --- On Mon, 11/9/09, rswat...@me.com rswat...@me.com wrote: From: rswat...@me.com rswat...@me.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Gluing cork grips To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:26 PM I recently installed some cork grips and just put a small piece of silk hospital tape on the bar first. It gave just the right amount of friction to hold them in place. Any thin tape that's got some texture to it ought to work. (cloth handlebar tape and rim tape were too thick) Ryan On Nov 9, 2009, at 7:56, Jock Scott ebko...@gmail.com wrote: Part of the higher expense of the Portugese cork grips sold by Rivendell is due to the more precise bore. If you do feel the need to use adhesive, a very small amount should be fine. A carpenter's glue such as Titebond II or III should provide adequate adhesion and still allow clean removal when you wish. Gorilla Glue is excessive for this application; you don't need this level of strength to avoid the tendency of a grip to twist on the bar. It's an expanding polyurethane. Use just a bit too much, and you'll see what this means. It's very difficult to remove hardened PU- based glue from surfaces; you can scrape/sand some of it away, but good luck trying to get it all off. If you doubt the capability of carpenter's glues, then consider 5- minute epoxy rather than GG. A small smear of epoxy will provide more bond than is really necessary, but it will be easier to apply and clean than GG. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Slightly OT: Washing Wool Knickers
Kookaburra from Riv. Best stuff ever, the lanolin keeps the wool soft and it
doesn't smell too bad.
--- On Wed, 10/7/09, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote:
From: David Faller dfal...@charter.net
Subject: [RBW] Re: Slightly OT: Washing Wool Knickers
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 12:35 AM
#yiv1705560116 .hmmessage P {
PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;}
#yiv1705560116 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;}
Seems to me you're related to someone who knows more about this than us
knuckleheads. Listen to your expert!
Dave
- Original Message -
From: Larry Powers
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: [RBW] Slightly OT: Washing Wool Knickers
It's an amazing day. I just found my old Woolrich wool knickers. I think
these are early to mid 80's, so well over 20 years old. I bought them when
they were discontinued and only used them a couple of times before my middle
aged spread rendered them unwearable. I tired them on today and they fit
again.
I would like to clean them. They are 85% wool and 15% nylon and say dry clean
only. My daughter says wash them by soaking in the tub with her super special
wool cleaner (she weaves and knits and only works with wool). I wash all my
riding clothes including my Wooly Warms on the delicate cycle in my front
loading machine using Ivory Snow. Of course all washing is in cold water.
Any opinions on the best approach?
Wool Rules.
Larry Powers
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
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[RBW] Re: Slightly OT: Washing Wool Knickers
Without lanolin, wool fibers get more dry, stiff, and scratchy than with
lanolin. They also don't shed water and sweat as well. Lanolin is one of the
reasons wool works well in wet weather and doesn't need laundering nearly as
often (I'm lazy) as most other farbics. It's part of the wool to start with and
washing it out seems a not so great idea to me. I have 30+ year old cycling
jerseys still in great shape, though I have mended a few holes over the years.
I'm not sure it was moths that caused them, so I'm sticking with the lanolin.
The weavers might be right, but I haven't seen moths to be that much of a
problem. You've got my curiosity up though, so now I'm off to see what more I
can find on the subject. Thanks!
--- On Wed, 10/7/09, rswat...@me.com rswat...@me.com wrote:
From: rswat...@me.com rswat...@me.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Slightly OT: Washing Wool Knickers
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 11:09 AM
Lanolin is bad, or so I'm told.
At the Taos, NM Wool festival, I
asked several weavers how they keep
moths and beetles from nibbling their fancy
woolies and they said the key was multiple,
thorough washings to remove the lanolin.
Apparently the bugs are attracted to the
lanolin rather than the wool fibers themselves.
They also like human body oils and sweat, so it's
important to keep wool clothing clean.
For this reason I wash my wool jerseys after each ride.
I've used Ecover delicate wash for years with good results,
even on stuff labeled dry-clean only
Cheers,
Ryan
On Oct 7, 2009, at 7:07, Ron Farnsworth r2far...@yahoo.com wrote:
Kookaburra from Riv. Best stuff ever, the lanolin keeps the wool soft and it
doesn't smell too bad.
--- On Wed, 10/7/09, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote:
From: David Faller dfal...@charter.net
Subject: [RBW] Re: Slightly OT: Washing Wool Knickers
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 12:35 AM
#yiv2143704041 #yiv1705560116 .hmmessage P {
PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;}
#yiv2143704041 #yiv1705560116 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;}
Seems to me you're related to someone who knows more about this than us
knuckleheads. Listen to your expert!
Dave
- Original Message -
From: Larry Powers
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: [RBW] Slightly OT: Washing Wool Knickers
It's an amazing day. I just found my old Woolrich wool knickers. I think
these are early to mid 80's, so well over 20 years old. I bought them when
they were discontinued and only used them a couple of times before my middle
aged spread rendered them unwearable. I tired them on today and they fit
again.
I would like to clean them. They are 85% wool and 15% nylon and say dry clean
only. My daughter says wash them by soaking in the tub with her super special
wool cleaner (she weaves and knits and only works with wool). I wash all my
riding clothes including my Wooly Warms on the delicate cycle in my front
loading machine using Ivory Snow. Of course all washing is in cold water.
Any opinions on the best approach?
Wool Rules.
Larry Powers
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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[RBW] Re: AHH Load Capacity
Another consideration for extensive touring with 50lbs, I'd probably go with a frame that handled a little less quickly at very slow speeds while going uphill with that amount of weight. I was surprised how sporty the handling was on my new AHH (with Jack Brown 33's), and I have always had performance road frames in the past. A heavier duty tire may slow things down a bit. Not that you can't do it, but when you are going slow up a hill and you are tired, good slow speed stability is a nice feature. It's as versatile a bike as I've ever seen, and I love mine with up to about 25 lbs (plus my 170). --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Z xodus48...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Z xodus48...@yahoo.com Subject: [RBW] AHH Load Capacity To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 5:30 AM What is the most critical limiting factor for the AHH load capacity? Is it the frame strength, the fork, the headset, or the wheels? In other words, if I went with a bomb-proof set of 36-hole hubs, could I double the bike's capacity (from stock ~25# to ~50#)? Would like to use the bike for extensive touring. Thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Homer Hilsen
AHH, 61cm 2009 Waterford frame, Jack Brown greens (33.33mm) with about 75 psi, 85cm or 33 and 7/16 standover height is what I measure. --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Andrew andrewkib...@gmail.com wrote: From: Andrew andrewkib...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Homer Hilsen To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 9:28 PM Does anybody know the true standover of their 61cm Homer Hilsen? The standovers on the website seem a little off when I measured a friends 59cm. If anybody could tell me the standover and tiresize on your hilsen it would be greatly appreciated thanks --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: wool jerseys
I have an EWR wool jersey, nice merino about the same as Kucharik, but the Kucharik stitching is way better when you compare them side by side. Plus the Kucharik is less expensive and made in the good'ole US of A which the EWR is not. --- On Thu, 9/17/09, d2mini d2creat...@gmail.com wrote: From: d2mini d2creat...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: wool jerseys To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 11:37 AM I've gone through 3 jerseys from Earth Wind Rider and every single one of them split at the seams in the shoulder area after washing the first or second time. Washed on hand wash cycle using Woolite just like with all my other wool jerseys. Also had problems with the dark dye bleeding into whiter areas of the garment. They were replaced under warranty, but I'll never order from them again. Rubbish. On Sep 16, 10:24 pm, XO-1.org Rough Riders adventureco...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think anybody here has mentioned Earth Wind and Rider. Their quality seems high but their customer service lately has dropped to nil. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Saddles
Provided they fit ok to start with, I find the plastic saddles comfortable until the padding deteriorates usually within a few years. At that point they are ok for maybe a few hours of riding at a time, then you start to feel them bottoming out, ie. the plastic base getting through to the sit bones when the padding no longer does its thing. It only gets worse from there. The B17's take some time (500 to 1000 miles?) to break in, but then seem to last about forever with an occasional touch of Obenaufs or whatever, and also seem to get progressively softer under the sit bones. That is my experience after about 15 saddles and 35 years of riding. I can sit comfortably on my broken in B17 most of the day even without cycle shorts, but do stay away from seams between you and the seat. --- On Wed, 9/16/09, cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com wrote: From: cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Saddles To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 1:09 PM I say get rid of the Brooks. It ain't that comfy AND you have a butt knot? hmmm... I think there are no better looking, more storied saddles than Brooks, but if they dont work for you, they dont work. I took the Brooks off my Riv and put on a Fizik-- a saddle that works really well for me. I tried to find a picture on a Riv without a Brooks on the intertubes and had a hard time. I jokingly wondered if it was still a Riv without a Sugino crank (and a double no less!) and without a Brooks. Turns out it still is, just more comfortable. Could always try some girl saddles. They tend to be wider. Most cyclists have extra saddles kicking around, maybe you could borrow a few for a ride or two. Cheers! cm --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Tried and LOVED - Silver Bar End Shifters
I have a 19 year old DA 8 speed brifter with many 10's of thousands of miles on it and it still works perfectly, adjustments are few and far between, and simple. On the other hand I've got several old friction shifters (Campy, Suntour, Shimano) with worn out damper washers that I cannot seem to find replacements for. I've never once had an index shifter fail even with mountain bike abuse. I'm not saying a simpler design shouldn't last longer because of less stuff to fail, but that has been my experience. --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote: From: Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Tried and LOVED - Silver Bar End Shifters To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 11:57 AM On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM, sanjoserthomas.savar...@gmail.com wrote: ok, so I have DA shifters on my atlantis, and I just wore out the right shifter for the third time in 6 years. I'd love to convert to Silver bar end shifters. Is it easy to do? You wore out your DA shifters? What part wears out? -sv --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hilsen Touch Up Color
Just a note, the Toyo blue and the Waterford blue are different. Good question for riv. --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Solomander soloman...@aol.com wrote: From: Solomander soloman...@aol.com Subject: [RBW] Hilsen Touch Up Color To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 2:39 PM Has anyone found something that matches Hilsen blue? Joel --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Considering an AHH - Advice sought
I find that if you live in an area with rolling terrain (New England) and do a lot of shifting, then brifters are the way to go. I ride the bar tops mostly and my hands are on the bars at all times which to me is convenient and a safety consideration, but I can still shift from the drops too if I'm there. If you live in a relatively flat area and don't shift much, then it's no big deal to reach and shift occasionally. Also, I've worn out several friction shifters in my life (the friction washers wear out), but have never once had an index shifter fail. I know there are other considerations for some though. --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Considering an AHH - Advice sought To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:12 AM One often overlooked advantage to bar end or down tube levers is that they let you mix and match components easily (while in friction mode). Campy FD, Shimano RD? No prob. They're lighter than brifter setups and are neat for shifting when down in the drops. You just use your pinkies. I sprint when in the drops so they are better for me than brifters, which would require lifting hands to the hoods to shift. --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: And I am leaning towards building the bike with bar-end shifters. Any reason I should consider otherwise? If you like them, use them. The only disadvantage compared to brifters is that you can't shift while sprinting or climbing out of the saddle. If you do a lot of town line sprints that may be an issue for you; otherwise, probably not. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Right Frame Size?
I went through personal turmoil between ordering a 59 or 61cm Hilsen. This seemed big compared to my 57cm performance bike I'd been riding. Riv talked me into the 61cm and I love the relationship between the seat, crank, and bars, very comfy. Standover with Jack Brown 33's was a bit higher than I was used to but never ever a problem. Glad I got the 61, though I had never pictured myself on a bike that size. Hope this helps, suppose there are limits though. --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: From: Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Right Frame Size? To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 1:19 PM It doesn't matter much unless you're a crotch-worrier or if you need your bars set at either the absolute highest or absolute lowest possible height. The size of the wheels has zero consequence to whether you fit on the bike while riding it, but if the bike is on the big side, fat tires may push it past the comfortable stand-over limit. If you worry about your crotch during stand-over sessions, and/or plan to use fat tires a lot, go with the 57. Otherwise, 59 should be fine. I agree with others here: if in doubt, why not just ask Rivendell? On Aug 7, 9:04 am, Michael ssimo...@aol.com wrote: I am ordering an A. Homer Hilsen. My PBH is exactly 33 inches (83.8 cm), I was informed that a 57 cm with 700 wheels would be better for me than a 58 with 650s. Any opinions on my correct size frame? If you do the math as on Riv site, my size frame is 58. Is a 59 cm way too big? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Light touring and Hilsens
Just a side note, the Waterford blue is different than the Toyo blue. --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Light touring and Hilsens To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 9:41 AM Since when can you order heftier tubing on a Hilsen? Like the Rom, Ram, Luki, Beam, and new Taiwan projects, I thought all the details were set in stone by RBW, except paint, which might be available at an upcharge (if they approve of the color) From: Bob H. bob.h...@gmail.com I had my Hilsen put together with slightly heavier tubing. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: another plug for MUSA
The biggest problem I have with this floppy pantleg or loose, open shirt approach is the occasional bee that gets filtered in while riding here in the NE. That's an experience you don't forget and one that doesn't happen with those real bike clothes (tighter openings). Yes, I have to pull over and remove my helmet once in awhile also but I've only been stung under loose shirts and shorts. I still wear both types of clothing depending on what type of riding I'm doing on a given day. om wrote: From: Bill Rhea billr...@yahoo.com Subject: [RBW] Re: another plug for MUSA To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:30 PM I tour and do long day rides on a B17 saddle with MUSA shorts and loose, cotton knit boxers (Hanes?). Saddle soreness is never an issue. I never would have believed this possible back in my bike shop days, when I recommended padded shorts for any kind of serous riding... What a bunch of hooey! I think the key is to go big and loose both on the shorts and boxers in order to stay cool and comfy. I've got a size 36 waist but ride with some big-ass boxers (size 40!) and size XL MUSA's. My kids make jokes when I'm folding laundry (serious tent-size proportions), but what price comfort? Probably shared more detail than y'all wanted to hear ;-) -br On Jun 24, 3:55 am, GeorgeS chobur...@gmail.com wrote: OK. I'll give the wool one's a try. My wife may not recognize me outside of Jockey cotton briefs which I've been wearing since I've been wearing underwear. G --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: New Hilsen
I find the Berthouds on my HH are a lot less floppy that the SKS on my other bikes, and look nicer too especially with the Waterford blue. Can't go wrong either way though. --- On Mon, 6/8/09, d2mini d2creat...@gmail.com wrote: From: d2mini d2creat...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: New Hilsen To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 11:43 AM Looks awesome! I second the need for fenders, but I would recommend the SKS fenders that riv sells over everything else. I started with those, then tried honjo and berthoud metal fenders and ended up back with the sks. They don't cover quite as much but they cover enough and they are more durable/hassle free. On Jun 8, 12:41 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: I've got about 100 miles on my new Metallic Copper Hilsen. I did the final build a few weekends ago in an afternoon, and everything went together very nicely. So far so good, but I'm getting used to drop bars and regular pedals after riding a mt. bike for the last 18 years. The jury is still out, and I've got a set of Albatross bars waiting in the wings. Shifting is velvet smooth with the 9-speed older Dura-Ace setup. The Silver shifters and brakes are all they're talked up to be... It was really fun to put this bike together - I loved the frame as soon as I got it - these bikes are truly special! Next steps for this project will be getting some fenders and rackage/baggage - this is the pacific NW after all... BTW - weight as it stands in these pics is right around 25 lbs for those that care. On the trail it rides like a freight train - smooth and fast. I shaved about 5-10 minutes off my daily 10 mile one-way commute, although it's probably pure adrenaline from the big stupid grin on my face. Hilsen Pics http://picasaweb.google.com/stonehog/AHomerHilsenInSeattle# Brian Hanson --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: New Hilsen
My Berthouds and rods and mounts are Al, not steel, so it sounds like I have a different model. The mounting rods on the Al Berthouds are a larger diameter and very stiff compared to the mounting rods on my SKS and also bolt directly to the somewhat stiffer fender vs. the SKS mounting brackets/clamping system. Don't get me wrong, I like them both. I haven't experienced dents in either brand of fender yet or had any problems with either. The Berthouds look simple and elegant with a nice wrap and coverage and are still fairly light, the SKS have that unique front fender breakaway safety feature but have more bits and pieces involved with mounting them. Maybe the extra movement I see in the SKS will allow them to last longer and not stress crack? Or, will they fatigue sooner? I don't know. Again, they are both great fender systems so far for me, and I'll leave it like that. --- On Mon, 6/8/09, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: From: JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com Subject: [RBW] Re: New Hilsen To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 6:26 PM I have had all three fenders. The Berthouds are steel and very solid. They are fairly hard to set up. They dent easily. The SKS are real solid. They don't dent. Appearance is subjective, but I find SKS neutral, not attractive. Honjos - or at least Honjos I installed - are not as solid as the SKS or Berthouds but hale and hearty nontheless. Honjos look real nice. On Jun 8, 2:26 pm, d2mini d2creat...@gmail.com wrote: That's really strange. My sks have no flop or movement of any kind. In fact it takes a good amount of pressure by my hands to get them to move at all. My bike is sitting right here next to me... they are rock solid. With the honjos and berthouds being longer i would think they would have more flop than the sks. On Jun 8, 12:42 pm, Ron Farnsworth r2far...@yahoo.com wrote: I find the Berthouds on my HH are a lot less floppy that the SKS on my other bikes, and look nicer too especially with the Waterford blue. Can't go wrong either way though. --- On Mon, 6/8/09, d2mini d2creat...@gmail.com wrote: From: d2mini d2creat...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: New Hilsen To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 11:43 AM Looks awesome! I second the need for fenders, but I would recommend the SKS fenders that riv sells over everything else. I started with those, then tried honjo and berthoud metal fenders and ended up back with the sks. They don't cover quite as much but they cover enough and they are more durable/hassle free. On Jun 8, 12:41 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: I've got about 100 miles on my new Metallic Copper Hilsen. I did the final build a few weekends ago in an afternoon, and everything went together very nicely. So far so good, but I'm getting used to drop bars and regular pedals after riding a mt. bike for the last 18 years. The jury is still out, and I've got a set of Albatross bars waiting in the wings. Shifting is velvet smooth with the 9-speed older Dura-Ace setup. The Silver shifters and brakes are all they're talked up to be... It was really fun to put this bike together - I loved the frame as soon as I got it - these bikes are truly special! Next steps for this project will be getting some fenders and rackage/baggage - this is the pacific NW after all... BTW - weight as it stands in these pics is right around 25 lbs for those that care. On the trail it rides like a freight train - smooth and fast. I shaved about 5-10 minutes off my daily 10 mile one-way commute, although it's probably pure adrenaline from the big stupid grin on my face. Hilsen Pics http://picasaweb.google.com/stonehog/AHomerHilsenInSeattle# Brian Hanson- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Nigel Smythe or?
Opening the bag at the back does not allow the use of a bar tube bag which I find to be a nice compliment to the front opening Little Loafer. The 2 bags work really well together on a Hilsen, just like a banana bag and big loafer in back. So I like the front opening bag because it allows more luggage options, and I have not found riding in the rain to be an issue as the rain fly over the zipper is a good one. Thanks, Ron F. --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Nigel Smythe or? To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 12:02 PM I've had and passed along the tweed and now have the canvas baggins on a nitto front rack. I like the look and feel of the canvas persoanlly. Both at good bags. They open at the front, while the new RBW bag opens at the rear, which is a better idea IMO. From: Tom M tmil...@att.net To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:19:52 AM Subject: [RBW] Nigel Smythe or? I just bought a Mark's rack, and I want to put a bag on it. RBW currently has canvas versions of the Nigel Smythe Little Loaf, with tweed versions due in June. I'm wondering if I should hold out for the tweed, go with canvas, or consider either the Sackville or Baggins bags. Anyone have experiences with any of the bags? Thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Riv Bike-Fit/Sizing Method Questions
I'm about your size and couldn't decide between a 59 or 61 AHH and ended up getting the 61 after talking to Grant. In hindsight I probably could have ridden either one. On my frame with the bars about the same height with the seat, the Nitto Tech Deluxe handlebar stem is at max height and the Nitto seat stem is not at max height which sounds about like what you mention you want in your message. Standover height clearance is a bit more snug than I'm used to but is easily acceptable and now I am used to it, no problem. The bike is very laid out and comfortable and rides very smooth with Jack Brown Greens and performance wise moves around quicker than I thought it would. Hope this helps. Ron F. in MA --- On Thu, 4/16/09, jim g yoj...@gmail.com wrote: From: jim g yoj...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Riv Bike-Fit/Sizing Method Questions To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 2:49 PM I'm trying to figure out the right frame size for a possible next bike-project. I want a Rivendell fit with bars about level with saddle, and somewhere around a fistful of seatpost showing. I'm about 5ft 10in tall; PBH is 86cm in bare feet, 87cm in my SPD bike shoes; preferred crank length is 172.5 or 175mm. Saddle height on current bike is comfortable at ~77cm. I'm reading Riv's fit guidelines at http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/choosing_a_frame_size and am finding some confusing points. Starting from How to Size any Bike, Including Ours, they use an example PBH of 85cm, and suggest that a corresponding saddle height is 75cm -- or 10cm less than the PBH. So far, I'm OK with that: my saddle height is around 10cm less than my PBH (especially accounting for my shoes). Next Riv suggests that a good bike size is saddle height minus 15cm. In my case, that's 86cm - 15cm = 61cm, or accounting for shoes, 87cm - 15cm = 62cm. Again, I'm in agreement with that: Most non-Riv 62cm frames I've straddled have been a bit snug but not overly so in standover height -- that is to say, the top tube touches but not dangerously so. And I could definitely fit on a 60cm frame, but I'd need a taller quill stem, or some extra spacers in a threadless setup, and of course there'd be more seatpost showing. Now, on to the next section on Riv's page: Sizing Rivendells (the bikes we design) If you look at the frame-size chart they provide, for 86-87cm PBH measurements, they recommend 59-61cm frame sizes! Here's where I'm confused -- most Riv frames have a lower BB than a typical/average frame, up to 1cm lower. Most of Riv's sizing theory says something like you can straddle a bigger one-of-our-bikes than one-of-theirs, so I've always thought that a correct Riv size would be 1cm larger than a typical frame size (and by typical frame I mean 1980's UJB steel frame or similar). Taking the previous frame size result of 61-62cm, that'd put me on a 62-63cm Riv. HOWEVER that chart points to a 59-61cm Riv frame for my body size -- which is SMALLER than the first recommended normal size, and frankly sounds too small! For example, the 61cm AHH has an 8cm BB drop and standover is just under 87cm -- that'd maybe be slightly too big for me (no clearance, since it's the same as my shod PBH). I guess the Riv Size = usual size + 1cm formula doesn't directly apply to the AHH because the larger tires cancel out the added BB drop? The 59cm AHH frame has 85cm of standover, which seems about right (about an inch of PB/TT clearance)...BUT a friend of mine rides this size, and he's always been on shorter/smaller bikes than me...so a 59cm sounds too small somehow. In contrast, the 61cm Atlantis has a standover of 85cm, so that'd fit me with the right clearance. Why that frame would fit but the same-size AHH wouldn't, isn't clear to me -- looking at their geometries, both have the same BB drop, similar size tires, the same seat-tube angle, and both have slightly-sloping top tubes. The Legolas frame is more typical since it has a standard 70mm BB drop. (Ignoring the fact that it's intended as a CX bike, which might indicate more-than-usual SO clearance) I could ride a 62cm size since its standover is 86.2, but clearance might be tight. The next smaller size is 59cm with 84.3cm standover. The Quickbeam frame is also fairly normal with a 73mm BB drop. The 62cm frame size has a standover of nearly 87cm (too big), but the 60cm size's SO is about 85cm. Now let's compare those data points with a fairly typical non-Riv steel frame: A Surly Pacer (level top tube, 72.5-degree seat tube angle, 72mm BB drop). The 62cm frame size has a standover measurement of just under 86cm, and the 60cm size's SO is 84cm (based on 700x25mm tires). Riv's Rambouillet frame has similar values at the same sizes. Overall, it sounds like I could ride a bigger Pacer frame than most Rivendell frames -- which seems utterly counter-intuitive to me, since most Riv frames have lower BBs! If anyone has a PBH of 86-87cm, I'd be very interested to
[RBW] Re: Sackville TrunkSack
Have you considered the zipper cover and the implications of rain? --- On Fri, 4/3/09, David Estes cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: From: David Estes cyclotour...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Sackville TrunkSack To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:55 PM I'm glad to see the smaller one opening toward the rider. That's what's kept me away from buying a Li'l Loafer so far. On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 8:50 PM, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: on 4/3/09 2:10 PM, Marty at mgie...@mac.com wrote: Two new rack-top models - large and small - to add to the Sackville line. Just a wee bit more than your average loafers. http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks#product=20-135 Nice! Maybe now I can retire my aging, cracking, slumping old Jandd expandable trunk bag... - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines That which is overdesigned, too highly specific, anticipates outcome; the anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of grace. William Gibson - All Tomorrow's Parties -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
