Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, John. As a matter of fact, having just read that Kucharik is
selling off stock and will close down after it's all gone, I ordered one of
their LS wool full zip jerseys, $136 including shipping and $6 tip for
staff. It's green, the only color, while I'd prefer dark red or blue, but
for that price I'm not complaining.

Y'all might want to head over to the site.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 11:49 AM JohnS  wrote:

> About #2, found this nice Merino wool outer layer with rear pockets at
> Search & State (by way of Radavist). Not cheap at $215, but what wool
> garment is???
>
> https://searchandstate.com/products/long-sleeve-merino-ranger/#
>
> Good luck,
> JohnS
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[JohnS]

About #2, found this nice Merino wool outer layer with rear pockets at 
Search & State (by way of Radavist). Not cheap at $215, but what wool 
garment is???

https://searchandstate.com/products/long-sleeve-merino-ranger/#

Good luck,
JohnS

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 4:32:09 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Joyce and Turnip: Thank you. Joyce, I see that the Seattle CL offer is 
> red, at least, as far as I can judge from my monitor and with my 
> color-vision-deprived eyes. If I were closer I might well grasp. Too bad 
> I', 1,500 miles away.
>
> In fact. I'm not in the market just now, but I may well be in the market 
> in a few months, and this Ortlieb shopping-specific design is the best I've 
> looked at; and apparently it comes in red, which I favor for the 
> Rivendel-esque* Sage Green frame it would be used on. 
>
> *The bike is the Matthews 2:1, but it's a Riv clone+ which also copies 
> pretty closely with its powdercoat the wonderful Sage Green (with 
> lovely Cream Accents) Joe Bell paint of the 2003 exemplar. The Sage Green 
> color is (*I* think) very well set off by red accents in bar tape and 
> panniers.
>
> + Copied angles and lengths, and the powdercoat is very similar tho' 
> without the cream accents; but saved from plagiarism and (one hopes) 
> obloquy because standard gauge / thinnish-wall 531, and narrow 118 mm OL to 
> accommodate both 114  and 120 OL hubs -- SA hub gear and fixed gear drive 
> wheels -- plus various odd housing stops for the SA shifter bits, and 
> oddball internal dyno-wire routing, weird custom rack attachments, etc etc.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM JAS  wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>> Here's an Ortlieb shopper I spotted this morning on the Seattle 
>> Craigslist:
>>
>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/bellevue-ortlieb-waterproof-bike-basket/7436299979.html
>>
>> --Joyce
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Pat; this is the one. REI is out and I don't see it on other 
>>> sites, but I'll keep looking.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 6:33 AM Pat Smith  wrote:
>>>
 Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for 
 groceries. It used to come in red. I've got one in red

 https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single

 Pat in DC

 On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!
>
> I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an 
> Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear 
> by 
> about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this 
> design, 
> and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such 
> similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or 
> perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers. 
> (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the 
> time.)
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that 
>> much processing power. But check 'em out! 
>>
>> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>>
> -- 

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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Joyce and Turnip: Thank you. Joyce, I see that the Seattle CL offer is red,
at least, as far as I can judge from my monitor and with my
color-vision-deprived eyes. If I were closer I might well grasp. Too bad
I', 1,500 miles away.

In fact. I'm not in the market just now, but I may well be in the market in
a few months, and this Ortlieb shopping-specific design is the best I've
looked at; and apparently it comes in red, which I favor for the
Rivendel-esque* Sage Green frame it would be used on.

*The bike is the Matthews 2:1, but it's a Riv clone+ which also copies
pretty closely with its powdercoat the wonderful Sage Green (with
lovely Cream Accents) Joe Bell paint of the 2003 exemplar. The Sage Green
color is (*I* think) very well set off by red accents in bar tape and
panniers.

+ Copied angles and lengths, and the powdercoat is very similar tho'
without the cream accents; but saved from plagiarism and (one hopes)
obloquy because standard gauge / thinnish-wall 531, and narrow 118 mm OL to
accommodate both 114  and 120 OL hubs -- SA hub gear and fixed gear drive
wheels -- plus various odd housing stops for the SA shifter bits, and
oddball internal dyno-wire routing, weird custom rack attachments, etc etc.



On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM JAS  wrote:

> Patrick,
> Here's an Ortlieb shopper I spotted this morning on the Seattle Craigslist:
>
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/bellevue-ortlieb-waterproof-bike-basket/7436299979.html
>
> --Joyce
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Pat; this is the one. REI is out and I don't see it on other
>> sites, but I'll keep looking.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 6:33 AM Pat Smith  wrote:
>>
>>> Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for
>>> groceries. It used to come in red. I've got one in red
>>>
>>> https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single
>>>
>>> Pat in DC
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!

 I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an
 Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear by
 about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this design,
 and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such
 similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or
 perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers.
 (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the
 time.)

 On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that
> much processing power. But check 'em out!
>
> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>
 --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c77dfc7b-1bc3-4cd5-8be4-5fec2ed433a6n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[luckyturnip]

Here’s another in Fairfield (no affiliation) 

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bop/d/fairfield-ortlieb-waterproof-pannier/7430036273.html

> On Jan 22, 2022, at 12:09, JAS  wrote:
> 
> Patrick,
> Here's an Ortlieb shopper I spotted this morning on the Seattle Craigslist:
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/bellevue-ortlieb-waterproof-bike-basket/7436299979.html
> 
> --Joyce
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>> Thank you, Pat; this is the one. REI is out and I don't see it on other 
>> sites, but I'll keep looking.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 6:33 AM Pat Smith  wrote:
>>> Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for groceries. 
>>> It used to come in red. I've got one in red
>>> 
>>> https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single
>>> 
>>> Pat in DC
>>> 
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
> Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!
> 
> I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an 
> Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear 
> by about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this 
> design, and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost 
> one such similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a 
> bump, or perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry 
> barriers. (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier 
> at the time.)
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that 
>> much processing power. But check 'em out! 
>> 
>> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
 
>>> -- 
>> 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> 
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c77dfc7b-1bc3-4cd5-8be4-5fec2ed433a6n%40googlegroups.com.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[JAS]

Patrick,
Here's an Ortlieb shopper I spotted this morning on the Seattle Craigslist:
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/bellevue-ortlieb-waterproof-bike-basket/7436299979.html

--Joyce
On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thank you, Pat; this is the one. REI is out and I don't see it on other 
> sites, but I'll keep looking.
>
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 6:33 AM Pat Smith  wrote:
>
>> Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for 
>> groceries. It used to come in red. I've got one in red
>>
>> https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single
>>
>> Pat in DC
>>
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!
>>>
>>> I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an 
>>> Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear by 
>>> about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this design, 
>>> and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such 
>>> similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or 
>>> perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers. 
>>> (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the 
>>> time.)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>>
 Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that 
 much processing power. But check 'em out! 

 https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP

>>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c77dfc7b-1bc3-4cd5-8be4-5fec2ed433a6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Thank you, Pat; this is the one. REI is out and I don't see it on other
sites, but I'll keep looking.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 6:33 AM Pat Smith  wrote:

> Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for
> groceries. It used to come in red. I've got one in red
>
> https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single
>
> Pat in DC
>
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!
>>
>> I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an
>> Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear by
>> about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this design,
>> and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such
>> similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or
>> perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers.
>> (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the
>> time.)
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that
>>> much processing power. But check 'em out!
>>>
>>> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Rusty Click]

I've seen that Ortlieb shopper in my LBS.  Nice bag, but I make do with a 
single rear pannier as a shopper.

Rusty Click
Pgh, PA
On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:33:20 AM UTC-5 pbsm...@gmail.com wrote:

> Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for 
> groceries. It used to come in red. I've got one in red
>
> https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single
>
> Pat in DC
>
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!
>>
>> I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an 
>> Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear by 
>> about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this design, 
>> and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such 
>> similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or 
>> perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers. 
>> (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the 
>> time.)
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that 
>>> much processing power. But check 'em out! 
>>>
>>> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Pat Smith]

Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for groceries. 
It used to come in red. I've got one in red

https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single

Pat in DC

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!
>
> I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an 
> Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear by 
> about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this design, 
> and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such 
> similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or 
> perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers. 
> (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the 
> time.)
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that much 
>> processing power. But check 'em out! 
>>
>> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!

I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an
Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear by
about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this design,
and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such
similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or
perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers.
(Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the
time.)

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that much
> processing power. But check 'em out!
>
> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Eric Marth]

Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that much 
processing power. But check 'em out! 

https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 6:51:16 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks very much, Joe, but after having used very many baskets front and 
> rear, including the folding Walds*, throughout my cycling lifetime, I 
> prefer Tubus or custom racks and a pair of nice panniers (or, for 
> occasional use on bikes with no racks, a selection of saddlebags in 
> different designs and sizes with various saddlebag supports and attachment 
> mechs.
>
> *I first installed these on a 5-speed Raleigh Sprite with North Road bar 
> which I flipped for that cafe racer look (and Alvit rd! -- which shifted 
> fine with the stem shifter) back in 1985 or so, when I lived in WDC. My 
> rack was a Pletscher, which was never, ever known for being rigid. I recall 
> riding the 2 blocks home to my apt just above Georgetown on Wisconsin Ave 
> NW at night with both baskets full -- gal milk, 6 pak beer, 5 lb sug, 2 lb 
> rice, and so on -- and being very, very glad that I could take backstreet 
> residential streets, because the rack/load combo would sway aggressively in 
> time to my pedaling, causing the bike to follow lazy left/right swerves 
> across the entire right of way. The fault was the rack, of course, and I 
> used these baskets several times on other bikes, and on better racks. 
> They're fine.
>
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:20 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> You need folding baskets with Wald bags in them. I still have the bags, 
>> you can have them for shipping, they're perfect for shopping. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 2:23:15 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Robert. I'd rather not deal with neck cords or zippers. Right 
>>> now the Backrollers work alright, especially since I removed the internal 
>>> pockets that would catch bags and items as I shoved them down, and I will 
>>> investigate the North St. bag.
>>>
>>> Funny to admit, but if my criteria were purely practical, I'd go back to 
>>> the very best ever grocery panniers I've ever used, no exception: a pair of 
>>> $4 (on sale) 13 gallon plastic trash cans from Target, strapped using 
>>> dowels for support to the rear rack. huge capacity, no obstruction at all 
>>> for shoving things, bags or otherwise, in, and plenty of room in back for 
>>> reflective stickers. Their fatal downside, I have to admit, was that they 
>>> made me look like a dork. 
>>>
>>> Even funnier: I recall how, back 10 years ago or so when I was young and 
>>> fit and green -- mid 50s -- I was spinning along on that 1973 Motobecane 
>>> making time in the 67" gear with these trashcans attached, and was 
>>> unintentionally gaining space on a CF lycra clad -- I will use the word 
>>> "roadie" because he got annoyed and sped up to pass me; so the derogation 
>>> is appropriate. He then missed the turn I made, and came back to pass me 
>>> again. It didn't click with me until I got home -- my reaction at the 
>>> moment was, "what's this guy doing here again; didn't I just see him?"; if 
>>> I'd understood, I'd have run him off the road. But I am sure that he got 
>>> upset because what to his provincial eyes looked like a fredly dork on a 
>>> beater bike -- and with a long pony tail, no helmet, and in more or less 
>>> civilian clothes -- was disrespecting him.
>>>
>>> Actually sold them with an old beater bike to my NDN who used the setup 
>>> for some years, though for the last 7 or so bike and trashcans have been 
>>> slowly disintegrating in the NM sun.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:04 PM  wrote:
>>>
 I used the Arkel grocery pannier quite a bit and I really liked it. It 
 meets most of your criteria but has a zip top and not a buckle top. The 
 new 
 version looks to have a draw cord top which would make sliding a paper bag 
 full of groceries in more difficult maybe? Their hardware is adjustable so 
 it would be simple to position it further back on a rack.

 https://www.arkel-od.com/shopper-foldable/

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

 I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for the following that meet
 possibly weird and certainly nit-picky criteria.

 A. This is largely academic since the old Ortlieb Backrollers serve
 well enough, but I do prefer a flap with Fastek buckle instead of the
 rollup method of closure. So: What is the best grocery pannier,
 defining best by my own criteria, in order of importance:
 1. Single compartment large enough to swallow a full paper grocery
 sack, and with no interior pockets or dividers of any sort;
 2. Flap with single buckle.
 3. As sturdy at least as the Ortliebs, tho' I don't care if it's
 cotton or nylon canvas or tarp material; and I do not need it 

Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks very much, Joe, but after having used very many baskets front and
rear, including the folding Walds*, throughout my cycling lifetime, I
prefer Tubus or custom racks and a pair of nice panniers (or, for
occasional use on bikes with no racks, a selection of saddlebags in
different designs and sizes with various saddlebag supports and attachment
mechs.

*I first installed these on a 5-speed Raleigh Sprite with North Road bar
which I flipped for that cafe racer look (and Alvit rd! -- which shifted
fine with the stem shifter) back in 1985 or so, when I lived in WDC. My
rack was a Pletscher, which was never, ever known for being rigid. I recall
riding the 2 blocks home to my apt just above Georgetown on Wisconsin Ave
NW at night with both baskets full -- gal milk, 6 pak beer, 5 lb sug, 2 lb
rice, and so on -- and being very, very glad that I could take backstreet
residential streets, because the rack/load combo would sway aggressively in
time to my pedaling, causing the bike to follow lazy left/right swerves
across the entire right of way. The fault was the rack, of course, and I
used these baskets several times on other bikes, and on better racks.
They're fine.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:20 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> You need folding baskets with Wald bags in them. I still have the bags,
> you can have them for shipping, they're perfect for shopping.
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 2:23:15 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Robert. I'd rather not deal with neck cords or zippers. Right now
>> the Backrollers work alright, especially since I removed the internal
>> pockets that would catch bags and items as I shoved them down, and I will
>> investigate the North St. bag.
>>
>> Funny to admit, but if my criteria were purely practical, I'd go back to
>> the very best ever grocery panniers I've ever used, no exception: a pair of
>> $4 (on sale) 13 gallon plastic trash cans from Target, strapped using
>> dowels for support to the rear rack. huge capacity, no obstruction at all
>> for shoving things, bags or otherwise, in, and plenty of room in back for
>> reflective stickers. Their fatal downside, I have to admit, was that they
>> made me look like a dork.
>>
>> Even funnier: I recall how, back 10 years ago or so when I was young and
>> fit and green -- mid 50s -- I was spinning along on that 1973 Motobecane
>> making time in the 67" gear with these trashcans attached, and was
>> unintentionally gaining space on a CF lycra clad -- I will use the word
>> "roadie" because he got annoyed and sped up to pass me; so the derogation
>> is appropriate. He then missed the turn I made, and came back to pass me
>> again. It didn't click with me until I got home -- my reaction at the
>> moment was, "what's this guy doing here again; didn't I just see him?"; if
>> I'd understood, I'd have run him off the road. But I am sure that he got
>> upset because what to his provincial eyes looked like a fredly dork on a
>> beater bike -- and with a long pony tail, no helmet, and in more or less
>> civilian clothes -- was disrespecting him.
>>
>> Actually sold them with an old beater bike to my NDN who used the setup
>> for some years, though for the last 7 or so bike and trashcans have been
>> slowly disintegrating in the NM sun.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:04 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I used the Arkel grocery pannier quite a bit and I really liked it. It
>>> meets most of your criteria but has a zip top and not a buckle top. The new
>>> version looks to have a draw cord top which would make sliding a paper bag
>>> full of groceries in more difficult maybe? Their hardware is adjustable so
>>> it would be simple to position it further back on a rack.
>>>
>>> https://www.arkel-od.com/shopper-foldable/
>>>
>>> Robert Tilley
>>> San Diego, CA
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for the following that meet
>>> possibly weird and certainly nit-picky criteria.
>>>
>>> A. This is largely academic since the old Ortlieb Backrollers serve
>>> well enough, but I do prefer a flap with Fastek buckle instead of the
>>> rollup method of closure. So: What is the best grocery pannier,
>>> defining best by my own criteria, in order of importance:
>>> 1. Single compartment large enough to swallow a full paper grocery
>>> sack, and with no interior pockets or dividers of any sort;
>>> 2. Flap with single buckle.
>>> 3. As sturdy at least as the Ortliebs, tho' I don't care if it's
>>> cotton or nylon canvas or tarp material; and I do not need it to be
>>> waterproof, just water resistant (ie, not a sponge).
>>> 4. Has attachments with considerable lateral adjustment -- I must
>>> offset large panniers to the rear on the bike carrying it -- I prefer
>>> the Ortlieb-type of closure but I'm open to other adjustable systems;
>>> 5. Comes in red;
>>> 6. Has a nice convenient outer pocket big enough for a large bunch o'
>>> keys.
>>>
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Joe Bernard]

You need folding baskets with Wald bags in them. I still have the bags, you 
can have them for shipping, they're perfect for shopping. 

Joe Bernard

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 2:23:15 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Robert. I'd rather not deal with neck cords or zippers. Right now 
> the Backrollers work alright, especially since I removed the internal 
> pockets that would catch bags and items as I shoved them down, and I will 
> investigate the North St. bag.
>
> Funny to admit, but if my criteria were purely practical, I'd go back to 
> the very best ever grocery panniers I've ever used, no exception: a pair of 
> $4 (on sale) 13 gallon plastic trash cans from Target, strapped using 
> dowels for support to the rear rack. huge capacity, no obstruction at all 
> for shoving things, bags or otherwise, in, and plenty of room in back for 
> reflective stickers. Their fatal downside, I have to admit, was that they 
> made me look like a dork. 
>
> Even funnier: I recall how, back 10 years ago or so when I was young and 
> fit and green -- mid 50s -- I was spinning along on that 1973 Motobecane 
> making time in the 67" gear with these trashcans attached, and was 
> unintentionally gaining space on a CF lycra clad -- I will use the word 
> "roadie" because he got annoyed and sped up to pass me; so the derogation 
> is appropriate. He then missed the turn I made, and came back to pass me 
> again. It didn't click with me until I got home -- my reaction at the 
> moment was, "what's this guy doing here again; didn't I just see him?"; if 
> I'd understood, I'd have run him off the road. But I am sure that he got 
> upset because what to his provincial eyes looked like a fredly dork on a 
> beater bike -- and with a long pony tail, no helmet, and in more or less 
> civilian clothes -- was disrespecting him.
>
> Actually sold them with an old beater bike to my NDN who used the setup 
> for some years, though for the last 7 or so bike and trashcans have been 
> slowly disintegrating in the NM sun.
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:04 PM  wrote:
>
>> I used the Arkel grocery pannier quite a bit and I really liked it. It 
>> meets most of your criteria but has a zip top and not a buckle top. The new 
>> version looks to have a draw cord top which would make sliding a paper bag 
>> full of groceries in more difficult maybe? Their hardware is adjustable so 
>> it would be simple to position it further back on a rack.
>>
>> https://www.arkel-od.com/shopper-foldable/
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for the following that meet
>> possibly weird and certainly nit-picky criteria.
>>
>> A. This is largely academic since the old Ortlieb Backrollers serve
>> well enough, but I do prefer a flap with Fastek buckle instead of the
>> rollup method of closure. So: What is the best grocery pannier,
>> defining best by my own criteria, in order of importance:
>> 1. Single compartment large enough to swallow a full paper grocery
>> sack, and with no interior pockets or dividers of any sort;
>> 2. Flap with single buckle.
>> 3. As sturdy at least as the Ortliebs, tho' I don't care if it's
>> cotton or nylon canvas or tarp material; and I do not need it to be
>> waterproof, just water resistant (ie, not a sponge).
>> 4. Has attachments with considerable lateral adjustment -- I must
>> offset large panniers to the rear on the bike carrying it -- I prefer
>> the Ortlieb-type of closure but I'm open to other adjustable systems;
>> 5. Comes in red;
>> 6. Has a nice convenient outer pocket big enough for a large bunch o' 
>> keys.
>>
>> Criteria 1 thru 4 are required, # 5 is important, # 6 would be nice.
>>
>> B. On rides like this afternoon's, 48-50 F but cloudy (full sun at 5K+
>> feet is the equivalent of +10*F in air temperature) I like a ls med
>> weight wool jersey + a second ls layer, and I've been using a full-zip
>> wool jersey bought deliberately large. But the fit isn't as good as it
>> might be. So:
>>
>> What is a good LS, full-cut (to fit over a ls wool jersey) medium
>> weight wool (*wool* -- it has to breathe) with either a full zip or at
>> least a long partial zipper (must be easy to get on over ls jersey),
>> rear pockets preferred (I'd happily accept chest pockets, but it must
>> have cycling-compatible -- drop bar cycling -- pockets). Red, blue,
>> gray, orange, even, even black, but no pastels.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Robert. I'd rather not deal with neck cords or zippers. Right now
the Backrollers work alright, especially since I removed the internal
pockets that would catch bags and items as I shoved them down, and I will
investigate the North St. bag.

Funny to admit, but if my criteria were purely practical, I'd go back to
the very best ever grocery panniers I've ever used, no exception: a pair of
$4 (on sale) 13 gallon plastic trash cans from Target, strapped using
dowels for support to the rear rack. huge capacity, no obstruction at all
for shoving things, bags or otherwise, in, and plenty of room in back for
reflective stickers. Their fatal downside, I have to admit, was that they
made me look like a dork.

Even funnier: I recall how, back 10 years ago or so when I was young and
fit and green -- mid 50s -- I was spinning along on that 1973 Motobecane
making time in the 67" gear with these trashcans attached, and was
unintentionally gaining space on a CF lycra clad -- I will use the word
"roadie" because he got annoyed and sped up to pass me; so the derogation
is appropriate. He then missed the turn I made, and came back to pass me
again. It didn't click with me until I got home -- my reaction at the
moment was, "what's this guy doing here again; didn't I just see him?"; if
I'd understood, I'd have run him off the road. But I am sure that he got
upset because what to his provincial eyes looked like a fredly dork on a
beater bike -- and with a long pony tail, no helmet, and in more or less
civilian clothes -- was disrespecting him.

Actually sold them with an old beater bike to my NDN who used the setup for
some years, though for the last 7 or so bike and trashcans have been slowly
disintegrating in the NM sun.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:04 PM  wrote:

> I used the Arkel grocery pannier quite a bit and I really liked it. It
> meets most of your criteria but has a zip top and not a buckle top. The new
> version looks to have a draw cord top which would make sliding a paper bag
> full of groceries in more difficult maybe? Their hardware is adjustable so
> it would be simple to position it further back on a rack.
>
> https://www.arkel-od.com/shopper-foldable/
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for the following that meet
> possibly weird and certainly nit-picky criteria.
>
> A. This is largely academic since the old Ortlieb Backrollers serve
> well enough, but I do prefer a flap with Fastek buckle instead of the
> rollup method of closure. So: What is the best grocery pannier,
> defining best by my own criteria, in order of importance:
> 1. Single compartment large enough to swallow a full paper grocery
> sack, and with no interior pockets or dividers of any sort;
> 2. Flap with single buckle.
> 3. As sturdy at least as the Ortliebs, tho' I don't care if it's
> cotton or nylon canvas or tarp material; and I do not need it to be
> waterproof, just water resistant (ie, not a sponge).
> 4. Has attachments with considerable lateral adjustment -- I must
> offset large panniers to the rear on the bike carrying it -- I prefer
> the Ortlieb-type of closure but I'm open to other adjustable systems;
> 5. Comes in red;
> 6. Has a nice convenient outer pocket big enough for a large bunch o' keys.
>
> Criteria 1 thru 4 are required, # 5 is important, # 6 would be nice.
>
> B. On rides like this afternoon's, 48-50 F but cloudy (full sun at 5K+
> feet is the equivalent of +10*F in air temperature) I like a ls med
> weight wool jersey + a second ls layer, and I've been using a full-zip
> wool jersey bought deliberately large. But the fit isn't as good as it
> might be. So:
>
> What is a good LS, full-cut (to fit over a ls wool jersey) medium
> weight wool (*wool* -- it has to breathe) with either a full zip or at
> least a long partial zipper (must be easy to get on over ls jersey),
> rear pockets preferred (I'd happily accept chest pockets, but it must
> have cycling-compatible -- drop bar cycling -- pockets). Red, blue,
> gray, orange, even, even black, but no pastels.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsgmekKqkq6KSgzkzDMO76FP17mgAwgyN2R87KW9rU87g%40mail.gmail.com
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> To view 

Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[rltilley]

I used the Arkel grocery pannier quite a bit and I really liked it. It meets 
most of your criteria but has a zip top and not a buckle top. The new version 
looks to have a draw cord top which would make sliding a paper bag full of 
groceries in more difficult maybe? Their hardware is adjustable so it would be 
simple to position it further back on a rack.

https://www.arkel-od.com/shopper-foldable/

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for the following that meet
> possibly weird and certainly nit-picky criteria.
> 
> A. This is largely academic since the old Ortlieb Backrollers serve
> well enough, but I do prefer a flap with Fastek buckle instead of the
> rollup method of closure. So: What is the best grocery pannier,
> defining best by my own criteria, in order of importance:
> 1. Single compartment large enough to swallow a full paper grocery
> sack, and with no interior pockets or dividers of any sort;
> 2. Flap with single buckle.
> 3. As sturdy at least as the Ortliebs, tho' I don't care if it's
> cotton or nylon canvas or tarp material; and I do not need it to be
> waterproof, just water resistant (ie, not a sponge).
> 4. Has attachments with considerable lateral adjustment -- I must
> offset large panniers to the rear on the bike carrying it -- I prefer
> the Ortlieb-type of closure but I'm open to other adjustable systems;
> 5. Comes in red;
> 6. Has a nice convenient outer pocket big enough for a large bunch o' keys.
> 
> Criteria 1 thru 4 are required, # 5 is important, # 6 would be nice.
> 
> B. On rides like this afternoon's, 48-50 F but cloudy (full sun at 5K+
> feet is the equivalent of +10*F in air temperature) I like a ls med
> weight wool jersey + a second ls layer, and I've been using a full-zip
> wool jersey bought deliberately large. But the fit isn't as good as it
> might be. So:
> 
> What is a good LS, full-cut (to fit over a ls wool jersey) medium
> weight wool (*wool* -- it has to breathe) with either a full zip or at
> least a long partial zipper (must be easy to get on over ls jersey),
> rear pockets preferred (I'd happily accept chest pockets, but it must
> have cycling-compatible -- drop bar cycling -- pockets). Red, blue,
> gray, orange, even, even black, but no pastels.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> 
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsgmekKqkq6KSgzkzDMO76FP17mgAwgyN2R87KW9rU87g%40mail.gmail.com.

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[RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for the following that meet
possibly weird and certainly nit-picky criteria.

A. This is largely academic since the old Ortlieb Backrollers serve
well enough, but I do prefer a flap with Fastek buckle instead of the
rollup method of closure. So: What is the best grocery pannier,
defining best by my own criteria, in order of importance:
1. Single compartment large enough to swallow a full paper grocery
sack, and with no interior pockets or dividers of any sort;
2. Flap with single buckle.
3. As sturdy at least as the Ortliebs, tho' I don't care if it's
cotton or nylon canvas or tarp material; and I do not need it to be
waterproof, just water resistant (ie, not a sponge).
4. Has attachments with considerable lateral adjustment -- I must
offset large panniers to the rear on the bike carrying it -- I prefer
the Ortlieb-type of closure but I'm open to other adjustable systems;
5. Comes in red;
6. Has a nice convenient outer pocket big enough for a large bunch o' keys.

Criteria 1 thru 4 are required, # 5 is important, # 6 would be nice.

B. On rides like this afternoon's, 48-50 F but cloudy (full sun at 5K+
feet is the equivalent of +10*F in air temperature) I like a ls med
weight wool jersey + a second ls layer, and I've been using a full-zip
wool jersey bought deliberately large. But the fit isn't as good as it
might be. So:

What is a good LS, full-cut (to fit over a ls wool jersey) medium
weight wool (*wool* -- it has to breathe) with either a full zip or at
least a long partial zipper (must be easy to get on over ls jersey),
rear pockets preferred (I'd happily accept chest pockets, but it must
have cycling-compatible -- drop bar cycling -- pockets). Red, blue,
gray, orange, even, even black, but no pastels.

Thanks.

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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