Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Gil- I did! and a brag- I "cleaned" it, no taps. Big tires help negotiate 
those granite lumps for sure. I'll be there on Saturday!, but no bike...  
If you find yourself cruising around, stop by, third house from the end on 
the Rockport side of Long Beach, AKA Pau Hana (Mom's fam's been renting 
that plot for over 100 years)
Maybe next summer we can shred Dogtown Commons (unless you've got a better 
secret granite trail stash)
-Kai

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:28:06 PM UTC-5 Gill wrote:

> Kai - Did you ride your Clem out to the end of the breakwater? I’ve never 
> thought to do that. I’ve also never seen another Riv out in the wild so if 
> ever you return to glosta give a shout out. 
> Leah - The color is, “blue-green shot thru with glimmer like sunlight on 
> seawater” 
>
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 11:26:14 PM UTC-5 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn 
> NY wrote:
>
>> The granite of Cape Ann!! With two TIGd Rivs (Clem in 2019 on the 
>> breakwater and Rosco in 2020)
>> [image: IMG_20190704_130839.jpg][image: IMG_20200904_122038.jpg]
>> Happy Rolling to all
>> -Kai
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Leah Peterson]

Gill is right about the name of this color, naturally. I mean, I couldn’t agree 
more 藍. 

Kai, I love this. Fantastic use of Clem, and fantastic photo of it doing the 
good things.

> On Nov 19, 2021, at 10:28 AM, Gill  wrote:
> 
> Kai - Did you ride your Clem out to the end of the breakwater? I’ve never 
> thought to do that. I’ve also never seen another Riv out in the wild so if 
> ever you return to glosta give a shout out. 
> Leah - The color is, “blue-green shot thru with glimmer like sunlight on 
> seawater” 
> 
>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 11:26:14 PM UTC-5 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>> The granite of Cape Ann!! With two TIGd Rivs (Clem in 2019 on the breakwater 
>> and Rosco in 2020)
>> 
>> Happy Rolling to all
>> -Kai
> 
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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Gill]

Kai - Did you ride your Clem out to the end of the breakwater? I’ve never 
thought to do that. I’ve also never seen another Riv out in the wild so if 
ever you return to glosta give a shout out. 
Leah - The color is, “blue-green shot thru with glimmer like sunlight on 
seawater” 

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 11:26:14 PM UTC-5 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
wrote:

> The granite of Cape Ann!! With two TIGd Rivs (Clem in 2019 on the 
> breakwater and Rosco in 2020)
> [image: IMG_20190704_130839.jpg][image: IMG_20200904_122038.jpg]
> Happy Rolling to all
> -Kai
>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Ryan]

I think, for me, Ben, you hit the nail on the head about Clems. I totally 
get why people like them. I think Riv found a good niche here...and if I 
had kids who ride bikes , investing in a Clem would be the ticket, rather 
than the flashy, lesser kid's bikes that have cheap versions of suspension, 
disk brakesetc.  that really aren't necessary in 99% of real world 
ridingask Leah and her sons. For me at this stage, I already have 
enough and maybe too many bikes. For Rivendell's sake, I am glad they're 
doing so well, and it doesn't hurt that Leah is such an eloquent 
marketer...and I know  she's not blowing smoke. I admit with all these 
groovy builds they're growing on me, however. 

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 5:26:48 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Just saw this, and am still analyzing it. As I see it, for a given height, 
> Filipinos (mi madre was Filipina) have the shortest legs, Swedes longer, 
> and black Africans the longest. When I sit, I am as tall from seat up as -- 
> if not 1/2" taller than -- my 6'1" bro in law surnamed Hansen.
>
> Someone else suggested that I'd be to short for a 59 and, anyway, that 
> even 59s will not take true 700C X 3"/76mm tires, which are a given for my 
> next (God willing) build.
>
> Too bad. I'd love a Clem-type with long rear dropouts and room for 3" 
> tires at 13 psi. Lovely.
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:11 PM Leah Peterson  wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here 
>> that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!
>>
>> I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 5’8” 
>> and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” with a 
>> Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their anniversary, so 
>> that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L. 
>>
>> There. Solved.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56 
>> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly 
>> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>>
>> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" 
>>> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size 
>>> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear 
>>> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 
>>> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>>>
>>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Joe Bernard]

Will shifting with his foot is so Will. I'm not trying that, the results 
would be hilarious and painful! 

Joe Bernard

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:50:01 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Gill - This is great. Tell us which color you ended up with; I’d love to 
> see the bike. Riding your Clem like a scooter…well, that’s got to be a 
> first, though in today’s newsletter Will from Riv WAS riding his Susie 
> around shifting with his foot, so strangeness abounds.
>
> I think $1650 for a Clem is an absolute steal. Don’t hate me, but I paid 
> far less than that for mine. The first owner was out East and had bought 
> his 52 blue Clem L on impulse. No sooner had he assembled it and ridden it 
> a week than he was listing it for sale. A paltry $960. I offered to buy it, 
> and he agreed. Too much time went by, and sure enough, he had changed his 
> mind, decided to keep the Clem. But a day or two later he felt like he 
> wouldn’t ride it enough and offered it to me again.
>
> It has lived with me ever since. October of 2019. Best money I ever spent!
>
> Leah
>
> On Nov 17, 2021, at 6:29 PM, Gill  wrote:
>
> 
>
> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to anyone 
> who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I bought 
> a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road capability 
> were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s beauty and 
> now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and truncated in 
> comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, enough to be 
> a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to ride the 
> granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem does what 
> you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune moment 
> stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home and 
> thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is 
> still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends 
> freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of 
> aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay 
> forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero. 
>
> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever 
> you need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot 
> hall of fame bike. 
>
> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>
>> Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
>> relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser 
>> investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative 
>> with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would 
>> you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?  
>> Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While 
>> most do not, many do just that. 
>>
>> Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are 
>> no duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of 
>> them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
>> assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 
>>
>> When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt 
>> like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint 
>> handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil 
>> needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single 
>> color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was 
>> worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had 
>> Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to 
>> paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals 
>> either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I 
>> liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly 
>> burnt/dull offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo ! 
>>
>> Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and 
>> anything else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint 
>> over and/or accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like 
>> the idea of a "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a 
>> blank canvas some may find it overwhelming at first but after that 
>> first step into the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well . 
>> such is the Living as Life Itself. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 10:12:57 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a bit of history which I think will be interesting for this 
>>> thread in light of how beautiful and colorful and modernized these bicycles 
>>> have become: 
>>>
>>> In the Blahg or Peeking Through The Knothole or whatever it 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Doug H.]

Patrick,
You are correct about tire pressure. I pumped front to 40 and rear to 35 
and it was too stiff. I'm getting used to wide tires again and so 25/20 
sounds about right. On tire width my assessment about Clem was too 
generous, it would not take much more than 2.6 as was mentioned above.

My wife called my Clem a Pickle and that does describe the color! Not sure 
I'll stick with that name but tonight I rode the Pickle in the dark. Yikes.
Doug

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 6:39:28 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Isn't 25 psi high for anything above 50 mm ...? I rarely pump my 62 mm 
> actual Big Ones up to 25 for pavement only; 20 is usual, for mixed sandy 
> dirt and pavement, and for dirt only, 18. 41 mm actual 26" Naches Pass: 35 
> and 40 and were it not for our expansion cracks, 30 and 35. 28 mm actual 
> 26" Elk Pass: 50-55. The WTB Rangers on skinny rims at 13 to 15. My former 
> Conti and Michelin 22s actual at 80/90.
>
> This after suffering for years on 35 mm Fatboys pumped to 110 psi because 
> that's what it said on the sidewall. Talk about bouncy! (And try getting 
> 100+ into Fatboys with the original issue Blackburn Airstik!)
>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 10:53 AM Doug H.  wrote:
>
>> I have ridden my Clem a few times now and can report it is excellent on 
>> roads, gravel, and dirt. I rode with the rear tire at 25 psi and the front 
>> at 30 psi. On roads I'll probably pump that up to 35/40. The Tosco bars are 
>> better than I expected as I had already thought about putting Billie Bars 
>> on it but now I'm satisfied with the Toscos. I have them angled downward a 
>> bit which is comfortable to me. The MKS Monarch pedals are good too but I 
>> may try another flat pedal that is wider and flatter at some point, maybe 
>> even add some color bling like Leah has done on hers. Not much else to 
>> report yet but so far so good! 
>> Doug
>> Athens, GA
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:29:46 PM UTC-5 Gill wrote:
>>
>>> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to 
>>> anyone who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I 
>>> bought a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road 
>>> capability were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s 
>>> beauty and now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and 
>>> truncated in comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, 
>>> enough to be a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to 
>>> ride the granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem 
>>> does what you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune 
>>> moment stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home 
>>> and thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is 
>>> still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends 
>>> freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of 
>>> aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay 
>>> forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero. 
>>>
>>> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever 
>>> you need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot 
>>> hall of fame bike. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
 relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a 
 lesser 
 investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative 
 with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would 
 you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?  
 Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While 
 most do not, many do just that. 

 Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are 
 no duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest 
 of 
 them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
 assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 

 When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt 
 like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint 
 handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my 
 Bombadil 
 needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single 
 color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was 
 worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had 
 Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base 
 to 
 paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original 
 decals 
 either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I 
 liked in the Clementine 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Leah Peterson]

Gill - This is great. Tell us which color you ended up with; I’d love to see 
the bike. Riding your Clem like a scooter…well, that’s got to be a first, 
though in today’s newsletter Will from Riv WAS riding his Susie around shifting 
with his foot, so strangeness abounds.

I think $1650 for a Clem is an absolute steal. Don’t hate me, but I paid far 
less than that for mine. The first owner was out East and had bought his 52 
blue Clem L on impulse. No sooner had he assembled it and ridden it a week than 
he was listing it for sale. A paltry $960. I offered to buy it, and he agreed. 
Too much time went by, and sure enough, he had changed his mind, decided to 
keep the Clem. But a day or two later he felt like he wouldn’t ride it enough 
and offered it to me again.

It has lived with me ever since. October of 2019. Best money I ever spent!

Leah

> On Nov 17, 2021, at 6:29 PM, Gill  wrote:
> 
> 
> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to anyone who 
> asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I bought a clem 
> for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road capability were the 
> inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s beauty and now find 
> traditional diamond frame bikes look common and truncated in comparison. For 
> me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, enough to be a quality bike but 
> not so much that it causes reluctance to ride the granite strewn trails of 
> cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem does what you ask of it. Out last 
> week a pedal came off at an inopportune moment stripping the crank so I push 
> rode it like a scooter 4 miles home and thought it still rode nice. Can’t 
> offer build inspiration as my clem is still stock. All I’ve done is 
> reposition the shifters to below the bends freeing up hand space. This has 
> made a big difference for any sort of aggressive riding/climbing, works well 
> for long descents too as you can lay forearms flush on swept back and be 
> comfortably aero. 
> 
> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever you 
> need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot hall of 
> fame bike. 
> 
> 
>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>> Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
>> relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser 
>> investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative 
>> with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would 
>> you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?  
>> Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While most 
>> do not, many do just that. 
>> 
>> Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are no 
>> duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of 
>> them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
>> assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 
>> 
>> When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt like 
>> hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint handy. It 
>> was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil needs too, 
>> some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single color. no 
>> decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was worse in 
>> person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had Jack 
>> @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to paint 
>> it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals either 
>> so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I liked in 
>> the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly burnt/dull 
>> offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo ! 
>> 
>> Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and anything 
>> else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint over and/or 
>> accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like the idea of a 
>> "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a blank canvas 
>> some may find it overwhelming at first but after that first step into 
>> the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well . such is the 
>> Living as Life Itself. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 10:12:57 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>> Here's a bit of history which I think will be interesting for this thread 
>>> in light of how beautiful and colorful and modernized these bicycles have 
>>> become: 
>>> 
>>> In the Blahg or Peeking Through The Knothole or whatever it was called 
>>> then, the original murmurings about the new, lower cost TIG-ed Riv was that 
>>> it would be painted flat black. The idea was you could use it as a beater 
>>> townie and touch it up with a spray can. I think - 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Joe, will check out their numbers.

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 4:40 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> You need a Gus or Susie/Wolbis to do the fat-tire Riv thing. They claim
> 2.8 will fit, I had knobby 2.5's on my Susie and there was a decent amount
> of room left. Nice bikes, beautiful fillet welds, get one.
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:30:11 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Doug. The situation is doubtful, alas. The present Monocog takes
>> the 3" WTB Rangers with ~3mm to spare between stays at rear, but then the
>> tires are mounted on 24 mm OW Alex rims; I'm sure that on 35mm+ rims they'd
>> expand to full 3" plumpness, and one goal is new, wide rims and a frame to
>> match; no need for fenders, but at least 5 mm between tire and stay. Oh,
>> and also, no substitutes, 700C.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:24 PM Doug H.  wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick,
>>> I would say a 2.8 inch tire would fit. Maybe 3 inch but it would be
>>> tight...this is on my 52.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 
 
 
 Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here
 that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!

 I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is
 5’8” and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2”
 with a Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their
 anniversary, so that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L.

 There. Solved.



 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

 

 Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X
 56 c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type
 slightly upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.

 And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?

 On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore 
 wrote:

> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er"
> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size
> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I 
> wear
> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be
> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>

> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>
 --

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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Joe Bernard]

You need a Gus or Susie/Wolbis to do the fat-tire Riv thing. They claim 2.8 
will fit, I had knobby 2.5's on my Susie and there was a decent amount of 
room left. Nice bikes, beautiful fillet welds, get one. 

Joe Bernard

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:30:11 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Doug. The situation is doubtful, alas. The present Monocog takes 
> the 3" WTB Rangers with ~3mm to spare between stays at rear, but then the 
> tires are mounted on 24 mm OW Alex rims; I'm sure that on 35mm+ rims they'd 
> expand to full 3" plumpness, and one goal is new, wide rims and a frame to 
> match; no need for fenders, but at least 5 mm between tire and stay. Oh, 
> and also, no substitutes, 700C.
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:24 PM Doug H.  wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>> I would say a 2.8 inch tire would fit. Maybe 3 inch but it would be 
>> tight...this is on my 52.
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here 
>>> that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!
>>>
>>> I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 
>>> 5’8” and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” 
>>> with a Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their 
>>> anniversary, so that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L. 
>>>
>>> There. Solved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 
>>> 56 c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type 
>>> slightly upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>>>
>>> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" 
 tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size 
 and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I 
 wear 
 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 
 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?

>>>
 And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?

>>> -- 
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>>>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Patrick Moore]

Isn't 25 psi high for anything above 50 mm ...? I rarely pump my 62 mm
actual Big Ones up to 25 for pavement only; 20 is usual, for mixed sandy
dirt and pavement, and for dirt only, 18. 41 mm actual 26" Naches Pass: 35
and 40 and were it not for our expansion cracks, 30 and 35. 28 mm actual
26" Elk Pass: 50-55. The WTB Rangers on skinny rims at 13 to 15. My former
Conti and Michelin 22s actual at 80/90.

This after suffering for years on 35 mm Fatboys pumped to 110 psi because
that's what it said on the sidewall. Talk about bouncy! (And try getting
100+ into Fatboys with the original issue Blackburn Airstik!)

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 10:53 AM Doug H.  wrote:

> I have ridden my Clem a few times now and can report it is excellent on
> roads, gravel, and dirt. I rode with the rear tire at 25 psi and the front
> at 30 psi. On roads I'll probably pump that up to 35/40. The Tosco bars are
> better than I expected as I had already thought about putting Billie Bars
> on it but now I'm satisfied with the Toscos. I have them angled downward a
> bit which is comfortable to me. The MKS Monarch pedals are good too but I
> may try another flat pedal that is wider and flatter at some point, maybe
> even add some color bling like Leah has done on hers. Not much else to
> report yet but so far so good!
> Doug
> Athens, GA
>
> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:29:46 PM UTC-5 Gill wrote:
>
>> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to anyone
>> who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I bought
>> a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road capability
>> were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s beauty and
>> now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and truncated in
>> comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, enough to be
>> a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to ride the
>> granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem does what
>> you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune moment
>> stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home and
>> thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is
>> still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends
>> freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of
>> aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay
>> forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero.
>>
>> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever
>> you need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot
>> hall of fame bike.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still
>>> relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser
>>> investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative
>>> with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would
>>> you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?
>>> Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While
>>> most do not, many do just that.
>>>
>>> Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are
>>> no duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of
>>> them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the
>>> assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One.
>>>
>>> When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt
>>> like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint
>>> handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil
>>> needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single
>>> color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was
>>> worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had
>>> Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to
>>> paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals
>>> either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I
>>> liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly
>>> burnt/dull offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo !
>>>
>>> Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and
>>> anything else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint
>>> over and/or accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like
>>> the idea of a "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a
>>> blank canvas some may find it overwhelming at first but after that
>>> first step into the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well .
>>> such is the Living as Life Itself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 10:12:57 PM 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Doug. The situation is doubtful, alas. The present Monocog takes
the 3" WTB Rangers with ~3mm to spare between stays at rear, but then the
tires are mounted on 24 mm OW Alex rims; I'm sure that on 35mm+ rims they'd
expand to full 3" plumpness, and one goal is new, wide rims and a frame to
match; no need for fenders, but at least 5 mm between tire and stay. Oh,
and also, no substitutes, 700C.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:24 PM Doug H.  wrote:

> Patrick,
> I would say a 2.8 inch tire would fit. Maybe 3 inch but it would be
> tight...this is on my 52.
>
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here
>> that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!
>>
>> I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 5’8”
>> and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” with a
>> Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their anniversary, so
>> that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L.
>>
>> There. Solved.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56
>> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly
>> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>>
>> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er"
>>> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size
>>> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear
>>> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be
>>> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>>>
>>
>>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>>>
>> --
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/dqoOrlGkFdg/unsubscribe
>> .
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Patrick Moore]

Just saw this, and am still analyzing it. As I see it, for a given height,
Filipinos (mi madre was Filipina) have the shortest legs, Swedes longer,
and black Africans the longest. When I sit, I am as tall from seat up as --
if not 1/2" taller than -- my 6'1" bro in law surnamed Hansen.

Someone else suggested that I'd be to short for a 59 and, anyway, that even
59s will not take true 700C X 3"/76mm tires, which are a given for my next
(God willing) build.

Too bad. I'd love a Clem-type with long rear dropouts and room for 3" tires
at 13 psi. Lovely.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:11 PM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here
> that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!
>
> I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 5’8”
> and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” with a
> Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their anniversary, so
> that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L.
>
> There. Solved.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56
> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly
> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>
> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er"
>> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size
>> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear
>> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be
>> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>>
>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>>
> --
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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Mike Davis]

I have no Clem, I do have a 2002 Atlantis and a 1990 El Capitan. One of the
real values of a Tig'ed frame is that you can do things that are
prohibitively expensive with lugs (ie requiring completely custom lugs or
accepting the compromise that might be needed for 26 inch legs and a long
body).  A custom tig frame is going to be more affordable than a custom
lugged frame.

I am interested in the Clem or the Platypus at this point in life.

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 1:34 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Doug: I use Deity Black Kat pedals and they're great, I didn't like how
> narrow the MKS were. Deitys come in a bunch of colors, I think Leah has the
> cheaper Deftrap model which looks to be the same size as mine. Good stuff.
>
> Paul: That's a nice bike. Dig the green Ourys!
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 9:53:25 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I have ridden my Clem a few times now and can report it is excellent on
>> roads, gravel, and dirt. I rode with the rear tire at 25 psi and the front
>> at 30 psi. On roads I'll probably pump that up to 35/40. The Tosco bars are
>> better than I expected as I had already thought about putting Billie Bars
>> on it but now I'm satisfied with the Toscos. I have them angled downward a
>> bit which is comfortable to me. The MKS Monarch pedals are good too but I
>> may try another flat pedal that is wider and flatter at some point, maybe
>> even add some color bling like Leah has done on hers. Not much else to
>> report yet but so far so good!
>> Doug
>> Athens, GA
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:29:46 PM UTC-5 Gill wrote:
>>
>>> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to
>>> anyone who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I
>>> bought a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road
>>> capability were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s
>>> beauty and now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and
>>> truncated in comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650,
>>> enough to be a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to
>>> ride the granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem
>>> does what you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune
>>> moment stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home
>>> and thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is
>>> still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends
>>> freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of
>>> aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay
>>> forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero.
>>>
>>> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever
>>> you need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot
>>> hall of fame bike.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still
 relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser
 investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative
 with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would
 you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?
 Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While
 most do not, many do just that.

 Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are
 no duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of
 them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the
 assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One.

 When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt
 like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint
 handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil
 needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single
 color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was
 worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had
 Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to
 paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals
 either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I
 liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly
 burnt/dull offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo !

 Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and
 anything else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint
 over and/or accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like
 the idea of a "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Doug Hansford]

I’ll order a set of those Joe. And I agree about the green Oury grips, they 
look Rad.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 1:34 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Doug: I use Deity Black Kat pedals and they're great, I didn't like how 
> narrow the MKS were. Deitys come in a bunch of colors, I think Leah has the 
> cheaper Deftrap model which looks to be the same size as mine. Good stuff. 
> 
> Paul: That's a nice bike. Dig the green Ourys! 
> 
> Joe Bernard
> 
>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 9:53:25 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>> I have ridden my Clem a few times now and can report it is excellent on 
>> roads, gravel, and dirt. I rode with the rear tire at 25 psi and the front 
>> at 30 psi. On roads I'll probably pump that up to 35/40. The Tosco bars are 
>> better than I expected as I had already thought about putting Billie Bars on 
>> it but now I'm satisfied with the Toscos. I have them angled downward a bit 
>> which is comfortable to me. The MKS Monarch pedals are good too but I may 
>> try another flat pedal that is wider and flatter at some point, maybe even 
>> add some color bling like Leah has done on hers. Not much else to report yet 
>> but so far so good! 
>> Doug
>> Athens, GA
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:29:46 PM UTC-5 Gill wrote:
>>> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to anyone 
>>> who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I bought 
>>> a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road capability 
>>> were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s beauty and 
>>> now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and truncated in 
>>> comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, enough to be 
>>> a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to ride the 
>>> granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem does what 
>>> you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune moment 
>>> stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home and 
>>> thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is 
>>> still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends 
>>> freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of 
>>> aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay 
>>> forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero. 
>>> 
>>> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever you 
>>> need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot hall 
>>> of fame bike. 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
 Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
 relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a 
 lesser investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be 
 creative with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car 
  would you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of 
 your own ?  Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design 
 ?  While most do not, many do just that. 
 
 Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are no 
 duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of 
 them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
 assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 
 
 When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt 
 like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint 
 handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my 
 Bombadil needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a 
 custom single color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, 
 which to me was worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some 
 frame work I had Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat 
 as a sanded base to paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't 
 like the original decals either so I left them off. About the only stock 
 Riv color I've seen that I liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The 
 Susie orange is a mildly burnt/dull offering. I expected something 
 brighter . boo hoo hoo ! 
 
 Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and 
 anything else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint 
 over and/or accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like 
 the idea of a "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given 
 a blank canvas some may find it overwhelming at first but after that 
 first step into the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well . 
 such is the Living as Life Itself. 
 
 
 
 
 
> On Tuesday, November 16, 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Joe Bernard]

Doug: I use Deity Black Kat pedals and they're great, I didn't like how 
narrow the MKS were. Deitys come in a bunch of colors, I think Leah has the 
cheaper Deftrap model which looks to be the same size as mine. Good stuff. 

Paul: That's a nice bike. Dig the green Ourys! 

Joe Bernard

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 9:53:25 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> I have ridden my Clem a few times now and can report it is excellent on 
> roads, gravel, and dirt. I rode with the rear tire at 25 psi and the front 
> at 30 psi. On roads I'll probably pump that up to 35/40. The Tosco bars are 
> better than I expected as I had already thought about putting Billie Bars 
> on it but now I'm satisfied with the Toscos. I have them angled downward a 
> bit which is comfortable to me. The MKS Monarch pedals are good too but I 
> may try another flat pedal that is wider and flatter at some point, maybe 
> even add some color bling like Leah has done on hers. Not much else to 
> report yet but so far so good! 
> Doug
> Athens, GA
>
> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:29:46 PM UTC-5 Gill wrote:
>
>> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to anyone 
>> who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I bought 
>> a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road capability 
>> were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s beauty and 
>> now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and truncated in 
>> comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, enough to be 
>> a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to ride the 
>> granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem does what 
>> you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune moment 
>> stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home and 
>> thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is 
>> still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends 
>> freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of 
>> aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay 
>> forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero. 
>>
>> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever 
>> you need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot 
>> hall of fame bike. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
>>> relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser 
>>> investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative 
>>> with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would 
>>> you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?  
>>> Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While 
>>> most do not, many do just that. 
>>>
>>> Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are 
>>> no duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of 
>>> them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
>>> assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 
>>>
>>> When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt 
>>> like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint 
>>> handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil 
>>> needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single 
>>> color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was 
>>> worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had 
>>> Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to 
>>> paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals 
>>> either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I 
>>> liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly 
>>> burnt/dull offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo ! 
>>>
>>> Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and 
>>> anything else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint 
>>> over and/or accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like 
>>> the idea of a "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a 
>>> blank canvas some may find it overwhelming at first but after that 
>>> first step into the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well . 
>>> such is the Living as Life Itself. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 10:12:57 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Here's a bit of history which I think will be interesting for this 
 thread in light of how beautiful and colorful and modernized these 
 bicycles 
 have become: 

 In the Blahg or Peeking Through The 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Doug H.]

I have ridden my Clem a few times now and can report it is excellent on 
roads, gravel, and dirt. I rode with the rear tire at 25 psi and the front 
at 30 psi. On roads I'll probably pump that up to 35/40. The Tosco bars are 
better than I expected as I had already thought about putting Billie Bars 
on it but now I'm satisfied with the Toscos. I have them angled downward a 
bit which is comfortable to me. The MKS Monarch pedals are good too but I 
may try another flat pedal that is wider and flatter at some point, maybe 
even add some color bling like Leah has done on hers. Not much else to 
report yet but so far so good! 
Doug
Athens, GA

On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:29:46 PM UTC-5 Gill wrote:

> So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to anyone 
> who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I bought 
> a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road capability 
> were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s beauty and 
> now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and truncated in 
> comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, enough to be 
> a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to ride the 
> granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem does what 
> you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune moment 
> stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home and 
> thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is 
> still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends 
> freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of 
> aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay 
> forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero. 
>
> Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever 
> you need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot 
> hall of fame bike. 
>
> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>
>> Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
>> relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser 
>> investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative 
>> with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would 
>> you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?  
>> Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While 
>> most do not, many do just that. 
>>
>> Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are 
>> no duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of 
>> them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
>> assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 
>>
>> When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt 
>> like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint 
>> handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil 
>> needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single 
>> color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was 
>> worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had 
>> Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to 
>> paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals 
>> either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I 
>> liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly 
>> burnt/dull offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo ! 
>>
>> Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and 
>> anything else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint 
>> over and/or accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like 
>> the idea of a "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a 
>> blank canvas some may find it overwhelming at first but after that 
>> first step into the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well . 
>> such is the Living as Life Itself. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 10:12:57 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a bit of history which I think will be interesting for this 
>>> thread in light of how beautiful and colorful and modernized these bicycles 
>>> have become: 
>>>
>>> In the Blahg or Peeking Through The Knothole or whatever it was called 
>>> then, the original murmurings about the new, lower cost TIG-ed Riv was that 
>>> it would be painted flat black. The idea was you could use it as a beater 
>>> townie and touch it up with a spray can. I think - not sure about this - 
>>> the decals were going to be offered as a stick-on kit. The decal idea later 
>>> - this part I remember well - was retained for the glossy-paint bikes and 
>>> you were supposed 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Gill]

So it’s been 15 months. I love the bike and extoll it’s virtues to anyone 
who asks (and to some who don’t). It was not love at first sight. I bought 
a clem for it’s personality - and price. Comfort and off-road capability 
were the inducements. As time passed I came to appreciate clem’s beauty and 
now find traditional diamond frame bikes look common and truncated in 
comparison. For me the price was a sweet spot. It cost $1650, enough to be 
a quality bike but not so much that it causes reluctance to ride the 
granite strewn trails of cape ann for fear of dinging it up. Clem does what 
you ask of it. Out last week a pedal came off at an inopportune moment 
stripping the crank so I push rode it like a scooter 4 miles home and 
thought it still rode nice. Can’t offer build inspiration as my clem is 
still stock. All I’ve done is reposition the shifters to below the bends 
freeing up hand space. This has made a big difference for any sort of 
aggressive riding/climbing, works well for long descents too as you can lay 
forearms flush on swept back and be comfortably aero. 

Maybe I’m just easy to please but for me this is a no-brainer. Whatever you 
need, on or off-road, loaded or unloaded Clem Smith is a first ballot hall 
of fame bike. 

On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 5:45:12 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
> relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser 
> investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative 
> with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would 
> you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?  
> Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While 
> most do not, many do just that. 
>
> Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are no 
> duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of 
> them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
> assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 
>
> When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt 
> like hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint 
> handy. It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil 
> needs too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single 
> color. no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was 
> worse in person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had 
> Jack @Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to 
> paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals 
> either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I 
> liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly 
> burnt/dull offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo ! 
>
> Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and 
> anything else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint 
> over and/or accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like 
> the idea of a "blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a 
> blank canvas some may find it overwhelming at first but after that 
> first step into the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well . 
> such is the Living as Life Itself. 
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 10:12:57 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Here's a bit of history which I think will be interesting for this thread 
>> in light of how beautiful and colorful and modernized these bicycles have 
>> become: 
>>
>> In the Blahg or Peeking Through The Knothole or whatever it was called 
>> then, the original murmurings about the new, lower cost TIG-ed Riv was that 
>> it would be painted flat black. The idea was you could use it as a beater 
>> townie and touch it up with a spray can. I think - not sure about this - 
>> the decals were going to be offered as a stick-on kit. The decal idea later 
>> - this part I remember well - was retained for the glossy-paint bikes and 
>> you were supposed to be able to have them do it for you with the regular 
>> name, plus you would get extra letters to mess about with as you wanted. 
>> But then the first frames came pre-decaled with a clearcoat and that was 
>> the end of that. Interesting, no??
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 6:13:50 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Btw can we discuss the first Clem pictured in this thread? I think 
>>> Leah's "eccentric" build is the coolest. One thing I can't really do with 
>>> my custom cuz of the gray/red scheme is toss other colors at it, which is 
>>> ever so slightly first-world-problems frustrating. I love the splotches of 
>>> red and orange on her blue frame, that bike POPS! ❤️李
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:52:26 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Ok buckle 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Garth]

Yeah, the Clem to some qualifies as a "beater bike", albeit a still 
relatively expensive one. The term is meant to convey something of a lesser 
investment/value/importance that one feels more liberated to be creative 
with. If you bought a new custom Riv, or a say a shiny new car  would 
you take the liberty to adorn it with hand painted designs of your own ?  
Would you gut the interior and replace it with your own design ?  While 
most do not, many do just that. 

Still, every bike is unique no matter how it adorned. In fact there are no 
duplicates of anything,  "Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of 
them all ?"  Hah !  It's a trick question in that it starts with the 
assumption of two or more, when in actuality there is but The One. 

When I had my '83 Stumpjumper (silver) one mid-80's winter I just felt like 
hand painting some of the lugs orange as I had some Testor's paint handy. 
It was irresistibly fun !   I think this is exactly what my Bombadil needs 
too, some hand painting here and there. It's already a custom single color. 
no decals. I bought it used and it was flat black, which to me was worse in 
person than I imagined. So when it needed some frame work I had Jack 
@Franklin custom frames use that black powder coat as a sanded base to 
paint it with light green metallic Imron. I didn't like the original decals 
either so I left them off. About the only stock Riv color I've seen that I 
liked in the Clementine soda pop Orange. The Susie orange is a mildly 
burnt/dull offering. I expected something brighter . boo hoo hoo ! 

Spray-can painting is something we used to do as kids to bikes and anything 
else that would take it. I wonder how many are willing to paint over and/or 
accent their stock paint jobs ? I'm sure some have !  I like the idea of a 
"blanco" primed and ready to paint as you like frame. Given a blank canvas 
some may find it overwhelming at first but after that first step into 
the seeming abyss and seeing that all is indeed well . such is the 
Living as Life Itself. 





On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 10:12:57 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Here's a bit of history which I think will be interesting for this thread 
> in light of how beautiful and colorful and modernized these bicycles have 
> become: 
>
> In the Blahg or Peeking Through The Knothole or whatever it was called 
> then, the original murmurings about the new, lower cost TIG-ed Riv was that 
> it would be painted flat black. The idea was you could use it as a beater 
> townie and touch it up with a spray can. I think - not sure about this - 
> the decals were going to be offered as a stick-on kit. The decal idea later 
> - this part I remember well - was retained for the glossy-paint bikes and 
> you were supposed to be able to have them do it for you with the regular 
> name, plus you would get extra letters to mess about with as you wanted. 
> But then the first frames came pre-decaled with a clearcoat and that was 
> the end of that. Interesting, no??
>
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 6:13:50 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Btw can we discuss the first Clem pictured in this thread? I think Leah's 
>> "eccentric" build is the coolest. One thing I can't really do with my 
>> custom cuz of the gray/red scheme is toss other colors at it, which is ever 
>> so slightly first-world-problems frustrating. I love the splotches of red 
>> and orange on her blue frame, that bike POPS! ❤️李
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:52:26 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Ok buckle up kids, your old pal Joe's got numbers. This is effective 
>>> toptube, which Grant will tell you isn't enough information to size a bike 
>>> so don't listen to me! 
>>>
>>> New/current/late-2021 Clem L:
>>> 45cm62.5
>>> 52  65.5
>>> 59  68.5
>>> 64   70
>>>
>>> These are the numbers for the last H model, which I believe match the 
>>> previous few years of L, too. My 2018-ish 45cm L matched this:
>>>
>>> 45cm 57.5
>>> 5261
>>> 59   65.5
>>> 6467
>>>
>>> None of this (as far as I know) applies to the first gen 
>>> Clem/Clementine, I believe they're all a smidge shorter in reach. One 
>>> super-bad thing about the Riv site is you can still find PBH recs for these 
>>> frames based on the first gen..it's way off now. Also I know nothing of 
>>> stack/reach, which I'm sure affects all this stuff. 
>>>
>>> For another chip in the cookie jar (I never remember idioms correctly so 
>>> I'm just making up my own now), my custom was designed for me at 79-ish PBH 
>>> with a tall headtube and intended to run Boscos. It's 54.2x63. 
>>>
>>> Joe "numbers guy" Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:03:18 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 
 56 c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type 
 slightly 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Joe Bernard]

Here's a bit of history which I think will be interesting for this thread 
in light of how beautiful and colorful and modernized these bicycles have 
become: 

In the Blahg or Peeking Through The Knothole or whatever it was called 
then, the original murmurings about the new, lower cost TIG-ed Riv was that 
it would be painted flat black. The idea was you could use it as a beater 
townie and touch it up with a spray can. I think - not sure about this - 
the decals were going to be offered as a stick-on kit. The decal idea later 
- this part I remember well - was retained for the glossy-paint bikes and 
you were supposed to be able to have them do it for you with the regular 
name, plus you would get extra letters to mess about with as you wanted. 
But then the first frames came pre-decaled with a clearcoat and that was 
the end of that. Interesting, no??

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 6:13:50 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Btw can we discuss the first Clem pictured in this thread? I think Leah's 
> "eccentric" build is the coolest. One thing I can't really do with my 
> custom cuz of the gray/red scheme is toss other colors at it, which is ever 
> so slightly first-world-problems frustrating. I love the splotches of red 
> and orange on her blue frame, that bike POPS! ❤️李
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:52:26 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Ok buckle up kids, your old pal Joe's got numbers. This is effective 
>> toptube, which Grant will tell you isn't enough information to size a bike 
>> so don't listen to me! 
>>
>> New/current/late-2021 Clem L:
>> 45cm62.5
>> 52  65.5
>> 59  68.5
>> 64   70
>>
>> These are the numbers for the last H model, which I believe match the 
>> previous few years of L, too. My 2018-ish 45cm L matched this:
>>
>> 45cm 57.5
>> 5261
>> 59   65.5
>> 6467
>>
>> None of this (as far as I know) applies to the first gen Clem/Clementine, 
>> I believe they're all a smidge shorter in reach. One super-bad thing about 
>> the Riv site is you can still find PBH recs for these frames based on the 
>> first gen..it's way off now. Also I know nothing of stack/reach, which I'm 
>> sure affects all this stuff. 
>>
>> For another chip in the cookie jar (I never remember idioms correctly so 
>> I'm just making up my own now), my custom was designed for me at 79-ish PBH 
>> with a tall headtube and intended to run Boscos. It's 54.2x63. 
>>
>> Joe "numbers guy" Bernard 
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:03:18 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 
>>> 56 c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type 
>>> slightly upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>>>
>>> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" 
 tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size 
 and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I 
 wear 
 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 
 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?

>>>
 And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Joe Bernard]

Btw can we discuss the first Clem pictured in this thread? I think Leah's 
"eccentric" build is the coolest. One thing I can't really do with my 
custom cuz of the gray/red scheme is toss other colors at it, which is ever 
so slightly first-world-problems frustrating. I love the splotches of red 
and orange on her blue frame, that bike POPS! ❤️李



On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:52:26 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Ok buckle up kids, your old pal Joe's got numbers. This is effective 
> toptube, which Grant will tell you isn't enough information to size a bike 
> so don't listen to me! 
>
> New/current/late-2021 Clem L:
> 45cm62.5
> 52  65.5
> 59  68.5
> 64   70
>
> These are the numbers for the last H model, which I believe match the 
> previous few years of L, too. My 2018-ish 45cm L matched this:
>
> 45cm 57.5
> 5261
> 59   65.5
> 6467
>
> None of this (as far as I know) applies to the first gen Clem/Clementine, 
> I believe they're all a smidge shorter in reach. One super-bad thing about 
> the Riv site is you can still find PBH recs for these frames based on the 
> first gen..it's way off now. Also I know nothing of stack/reach, which I'm 
> sure affects all this stuff. 
>
> For another chip in the cookie jar (I never remember idioms correctly so 
> I'm just making up my own now), my custom was designed for me at 79-ish PBH 
> with a tall headtube and intended to run Boscos. It's 54.2x63. 
>
> Joe "numbers guy" Bernard 
>
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:03:18 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56 
>> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly 
>> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>>
>> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" 
>>> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size 
>>> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear 
>>> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 
>>> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>>>
>>
>>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Doug H.]

Not at all. I really don't know  how wide a tire will fit. Mine has 2.3 
inch tires with some room to spare.
Doug

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 8:54:01 PM UTC-5 fraze...@gmail.com wrote:

> I hope I'm not stepping on any toes. Bit Grant's "maxed out" Clem L is 
> running 2.5's. and had to modify the rear cassette so the chain didn't run 
> the rear tire in the granny. 
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 5:24 PM Doug H.  wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>> I would say a 2.8 inch tire would fit. Maybe 3 inch but it would be 
>> tight...this is on my 52.
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here 
>>> that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!
>>>
>>> I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 
>>> 5’8” and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” 
>>> with a Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their 
>>> anniversary, so that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L. 
>>>
>>> There. Solved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 
>>> 56 c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type 
>>> slightly upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>>>
>>> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" 
 tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size 
 and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I 
 wear 
 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 
 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?

>>>
 And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?

>>> -- 
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Ron Frazelle]

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes. Bit Grant's "maxed out" Clem L is
running 2.5's. and had to modify the rear cassette so the chain didn't run
the rear tire in the granny.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 5:24 PM Doug H.  wrote:

> Patrick,
> I would say a 2.8 inch tire would fit. Maybe 3 inch but it would be
> tight...this is on my 52.
>
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here
>> that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!
>>
>> I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 5’8”
>> and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” with a
>> Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their anniversary, so
>> that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L.
>>
>> There. Solved.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56
>> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly
>> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>>
>> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er"
>>> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size
>>> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear
>>> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be
>>> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>>>
>>
>>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>>>
>> --
>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/dqoOrlGkFdg/unsubscribe
>> .
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Joe Bernard]

Ok buckle up kids, your old pal Joe's got numbers. This is effective 
toptube, which Grant will tell you isn't enough information to size a bike 
so don't listen to me! 

New/current/late-2021 Clem L:
45cm62.5
52  65.5
59  68.5
64   70

These are the numbers for the last H model, which I believe match the 
previous few years of L, too. My 2018-ish 45cm L matched this:

45cm 57.5
5261
59   65.5
6467

None of this (as far as I know) applies to the first gen Clem/Clementine, I 
believe they're all a smidge shorter in reach. One super-bad thing about 
the Riv site is you can still find PBH recs for these frames based on the 
first gen..it's way off now. Also I know nothing of stack/reach, which I'm 
sure affects all this stuff. 

For another chip in the cookie jar (I never remember idioms correctly so 
I'm just making up my own now), my custom was designed for me at 79-ish PBH 
with a tall headtube and intended to run Boscos. It's 54.2x63. 

Joe "numbers guy" Bernard 

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 5:03:18 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56 
> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly 
> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>
> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" 
>> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size 
>> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear 
>> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 
>> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>>
>
>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Doug H.]

Patrick,
I would say a 2.8 inch tire would fit. Maybe 3 inch but it would be 
tight...this is on my 52.

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here 
> that I just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!
>
> I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 5’8” 
> and can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” with a 
> Nigerian build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their anniversary, so 
> that she would stop riding his 59 Clem L. 
>
> There. Solved.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56 
> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly 
> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
>
> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" 
>> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size 
>> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear 
>> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 
>> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>>
>
>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Leah Peterson]



Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here that I 
just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!

I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 5’8” and 
can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” with a Nigerian 
build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their anniversary, so that she 
would stop riding his 59 Clem L. 

There. Solved.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56 
> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly 
> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
> 
> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
> 
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" tires." 
>> I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size and tt 
>> size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear 34 w 32 
>> length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 6'1" ), so 
>> would I fit a 59?
>> 
>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
> 
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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Leah Peterson]


Well I hope you’re not asking ME.  I think it’s well-known around here that I 
just ride the bikes. Let me reply with a nonsensical answer then!

I can tell you that my sister with her Swedish/German Anglo build is 5’8” and 
can ride the 59 Clem L that belongs to her husband  who is 6’2” with a Nigerian 
build. But, he bought her the 52 Clem L for their anniversary, so that she 
would stop riding his 59 Clem L. 

There. Solved.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 16, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56 
> c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly 
> upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.
> 
> And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?
> 
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er" tires." 
>> I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size and tt 
>> size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear 34 w 32 
>> length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be 6'1" ), so 
>> would I fit a 59?
>> 
>> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
> 
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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps more helpful: my perfect level tt road bike frame size is 60 X 56
c-c. My built road bikes have 57 and 58 cm c-c tts with Riv-type slightly
upsloping tts. Please help me translate this into Clems.

And again, how fat a tire will a 700C 59 cm Clem take?

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ..Aside: "59cm - 86 to 96cm; 700c rim size, but with room for "29er"
> tires." I've never measured my pbh because I've known forever what st size
> and tt size make a bike fit me. But I'm 5'10" tall with Asian build (I wear
> 34 w 32 length jeans instead of v-versa; if I had an Anglo build I'd be
> 6'1" ), so would I fit a 59?
>
> And, if so, how fat a 700C tire will a 59 cm Clem take?
>

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Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Doug H.]

Heck yeah! Great post Leah. Yes, the downtube was a barrier to me (thanks 
Joe for the term). But now that I've come to own a Clem and ridden a few 
miles I am amazed at the comfort and ability to climb hills on this 'heavy' 
bicycle. It can handle wide tires, racks, fenders, stickers, bags, mirrors, 
bells, and it suits me just fine. The lime green color was also way out of 
my bicycle comfort zone as I'm a black and gray color scheme person, or at 
least I was! 
Doug

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 7:04:31 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Understood. The question about Clems is all the more interesting, then.
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 4:09 PM Leah Peterson  wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> I don’t have a question per se, and no one is complaining that the Clems 
>> are too unorthodox. Rather, I am musing (celebrating?) what the Clems have 
>> become. As far as I can tell, they have livened things up for the company 
>> and made a great number of customers very happy. Again, it is only my 
>> observation and not necessarily FACT, which is why I wondered if anyone 
>> else had observed the same…
>> Leah, whose Clem is really rather eccentric
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2021, at 2:53 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> When I read this post I did not look to see who posted it, and while 
>> reading through it I very quickly thought to advise the reader, "You are 
>> not alone! Leah has Rivendells tricked out in all the colors of Joseph's 
>> coat!" And then I scrolled up and saw the list ID. No need to preach to the 
>> choir director!
>>
>> So, Leah, what is the question? Are people complaining that Clems are 
>> being built in unorthodox colors and kit? Is there a purist group who 
>> demands that Clems be restricted to authorized versions?
>>
>> Me, I wholeheartedly encourage individual choice of builds and colors, 
>> subject of course to the universal rules of good taste which belong to no 
>> particular culture or group, and which within that general guideline permit 
>> a huge variety of tastes. For the record, there are objective aesthetic 
>> criteria, as rigorous as mathematical criteria; only, not susceptible to 
>> formulas. *De gustibus non est disputandem* means that these criteria 
>> have to intuitively recognized, and that they are not susceptible to 
>> quasi-mathematical analysis, though they can be articulated. It's no 
>> accident that *sapere*, "to taste," is the root of *sapientia,* "wisdom." 
>> Example in proof: 
>>
>> [image: image.png])
>>
>> Patrick Moore, whose dog in this fight is that the Clem is currently at 
>> the top of his would-buy Rivendell list. How would I build it? First, it 
>> would be a true all-rounder, for running the dog and riding our sandy 
>> bosque, but also fleet enough to enjoy on pavement. Upright, but not 
>> omafiets: sufficient bend at hips to make pedaling comfortable. Fattest and 
>> softest tires possible. Fenders? Lights? Dunno, but certainly sufficient 
>> luggage for a 12-pack and chips. Perhaps my Med Saddlesack or V Large 
>> Ortlieb bikepacking saddle bag (extends rearward in an almost-unending 
>> tube). No rack.* And no g-d front basket!!! *2-speed kickback? Fixed? 
>> Ss? S3X with freewheel? No derailleur, that's for sure. Perhaps bolt on the 
>> ugly mast to hold the QR dog leash. No attempt to lighten it up; heavy be 
>> damned as long as it's fun to ride.
>>
>> Seriously, if the Clem could accommodate 700C X 76 mm tires (fully 3" WTB 
>> Rangers) with sufficient clearance even without fenders, this bike would be 
>> at the absolute top and pinnacle of my list; as it is, the Monocog 
>> replacement currently resides there.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 10:14 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> [image: 84256557-932F-4AD7-99B6-8BE9DC178396.jpeg]Can we talk about the 
>>> Rivendell Clems for a minute? I hesitate as I write this, because opinions 
>>> on here tend to be strong, but I see this as a fun topic and worth 
>>> exploring. We can be nice, even if we disagree. I have been seeing Clems in 
>>> several colors, in a variety of configurations, all over Instagram. 
>>> Blue Lug and Helmet Kids are two of my favorite bike Instagram accounts, 
>>> and they frequently feature Clems on their group rides. Calling In Sick, a 
>>> bike magazine you’ve likely heard of, did an entire issue on the magic of 
>>> the Clem, which is also all over Instagram. I suppose it could be that 
>>> Clem popularity is imagined by me; I personally love Clems and therefore 
>>> notice them, so I’ll add that caveat here. But I really do think the Clems 
>>> are having their moment.
>>>
>>> When I first discovered Rivendell in 2012 the only social media I knew 
>>> about was the List.  The bikes were all lugged, and built with silver 
>>> parts. There was a definite prescribed look. The demographics of the group 
>>> were not exactly varied. There were few women, and even fewer in my age 
>>> bracket (early 30s).  But then Grant made the 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Patrick Moore]

I see; thanks. Then thanks, Leah, for raising this very interesting topic
for discussion.

I applaud and encourage the question: how would *you* build *your* Clem?

Aside: I don't ponder the Rivendell list of frame/bike offerings. Are there
other models that do much the same as the Clem? How are they different, how
are they better?

And: Is there any Rivendell "cruiser" model that takes true 3"/76mm tires
with sufficient clearance at stays and fork to avoid rub when the tire
collects mud?

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 4:05 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> "So, Leah, what is the question? Are people complaining that Clems are
> being built in unorthodox colors and kit? Is there a purist group who
> demands that Clems be restricted to authorized versions?"
>
> Patrick, I perceived the question as not a literal question but a
> jumping-off point to discuss the glories of Clem. A bicycle I don't
> currently own so don't feel I have much to say about, but the L model led
> to this: that droptube convinced me that high/level toptubes aren't my
> thing and I had my custom built with a lower one. Thanks, Clem L! 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:53:21 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> When I read this post I did not look to see who posted it, and while
>> reading through it I very quickly thought to advise the reader, "You are
>> not alone! Leah has Rivendells tricked out in all the colors of Joseph's
>> coat!" And then I scrolled up and saw the list ID. No need to preach to the
>> choir director!
>>
>> So, Leah, what is the question? Are people complaining that Clems are
>> being built in unorthodox colors and kit? Is there a purist group who
>> demands that Clems be restricted to authorized versions?
>>
>> Me, I wholeheartedly encourage individual choice of builds and colors,
>> subject of course to the universal rules of good taste which belong to no
>> particular culture or group, and which within that general guideline permit
>> a huge variety of tastes. For the record, there are objective aesthetic
>> criteria, as rigorous as mathematical criteria; only, not susceptible to
>> formulas. *De gustibus non est disputandem* means that these criteria
>> have to intuitively recognized, and that they are not susceptible to
>> quasi-mathematical analysis, though they can be articulated. It's no
>> accident that *sapere*, "to taste," is the root of *sapientia,* "wisdom."
>> Example in proof:
>>
>> [image: image.png])
>>
>> Patrick Moore, whose dog in this fight is that the Clem is currently at
>> the top of his would-buy Rivendell list. How would I build it? First, it
>> would be a true all-rounder, for running the dog and riding our sandy
>> bosque, but also fleet enough to enjoy on pavement. Upright, but not
>> omafiets: sufficient bend at hips to make pedaling comfortable. Fattest and
>> softest tires possible. Fenders? Lights? Dunno, but certainly sufficient
>> luggage for a 12-pack and chips. Perhaps my Med Saddlesack or V Large
>> Ortlieb bikepacking saddle bag (extends rearward in an almost-unending
>> tube). No rack.* And no g-d front basket!!! *2-speed kickback? Fixed?
>> Ss? S3X with freewheel? No derailleur, that's for sure. Perhaps bolt on the
>> ugly mast to hold the QR dog leash. No attempt to lighten it up; heavy be
>> damned as long as it's fun to ride.
>>
>> Seriously, if the Clem could accommodate 700C X 76 mm tires (fully 3" WTB
>> Rangers) with sufficient clearance even without fenders, this bike would be
>> at the absolute top and pinnacle of my list; as it is, the Monocog
>> replacement currently resides there.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 10:14 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> [image: 84256557-932F-4AD7-99B6-8BE9DC178396.jpeg]Can we talk about the
>>> Rivendell Clems for a minute? I hesitate as I write this, because opinions
>>> on here tend to be strong, but I see this as a fun topic and worth
>>> exploring. We can be nice, even if we disagree. I have been seeing Clems in
>>> several colors, in a variety of configurations, all over Instagram.
>>> Blue Lug and Helmet Kids are two of my favorite bike Instagram accounts,
>>> and they frequently feature Clems on their group rides. Calling In Sick, a
>>> bike magazine you’ve likely heard of, did an entire issue on the magic of
>>> the Clem, which is also all over Instagram. I suppose it could be that
>>> Clem popularity is imagined by me; I personally love Clems and therefore
>>> notice them, so I’ll add that caveat here. But I really do think the Clems
>>> are having their moment.
>>>
>>> When I first discovered Rivendell in 2012 the only social media I knew
>>> about was the List.  The bikes were all lugged, and built with silver
>>> parts. There was a definite prescribed look. The demographics of the group
>>> were not exactly varied. There were few women, and even fewer in my age
>>> bracket (early 30s).  But then Grant made the bike he said he’d never
>>> make, and the TIG’d Clem was among us. 

Re: [RBW] Clems: Rivendell, modernized?

[Joe Bernard]

"So, Leah, what is the question? Are people complaining that Clems are 
being built in unorthodox colors and kit? Is there a purist group who 
demands that Clems be restricted to authorized versions?"

Patrick, I perceived the question as not a literal question but a 
jumping-off point to discuss the glories of Clem. A bicycle I don't 
currently own so don't feel I have much to say about, but the L model led 
to this: that droptube convinced me that high/level toptubes aren't my 
thing and I had my custom built with a lower one. Thanks, Clem L! 

Joe Bernard

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:53:21 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> When I read this post I did not look to see who posted it, and while 
> reading through it I very quickly thought to advise the reader, "You are 
> not alone! Leah has Rivendells tricked out in all the colors of Joseph's 
> coat!" And then I scrolled up and saw the list ID. No need to preach to the 
> choir director!
>
> So, Leah, what is the question? Are people complaining that Clems are 
> being built in unorthodox colors and kit? Is there a purist group who 
> demands that Clems be restricted to authorized versions?
>
> Me, I wholeheartedly encourage individual choice of builds and colors, 
> subject of course to the universal rules of good taste which belong to no 
> particular culture or group, and which within that general guideline permit 
> a huge variety of tastes. For the record, there are objective aesthetic 
> criteria, as rigorous as mathematical criteria; only, not susceptible to 
> formulas. *De gustibus non est disputandem* means that these criteria 
> have to intuitively recognized, and that they are not susceptible to 
> quasi-mathematical analysis, though they can be articulated. It's no 
> accident that *sapere*, "to taste," is the root of *sapientia,* "wisdom." 
> Example in proof: 
>
> [image: image.png])
>
> Patrick Moore, whose dog in this fight is that the Clem is currently at 
> the top of his would-buy Rivendell list. How would I build it? First, it 
> would be a true all-rounder, for running the dog and riding our sandy 
> bosque, but also fleet enough to enjoy on pavement. Upright, but not 
> omafiets: sufficient bend at hips to make pedaling comfortable. Fattest and 
> softest tires possible. Fenders? Lights? Dunno, but certainly sufficient 
> luggage for a 12-pack and chips. Perhaps my Med Saddlesack or V Large 
> Ortlieb bikepacking saddle bag (extends rearward in an almost-unending 
> tube). No rack.* And no g-d front basket!!! *2-speed kickback? Fixed? Ss? 
> S3X with freewheel? No derailleur, that's for sure. Perhaps bolt on the 
> ugly mast to hold the QR dog leash. No attempt to lighten it up; heavy be 
> damned as long as it's fun to ride.
>
> Seriously, if the Clem could accommodate 700C X 76 mm tires (fully 3" WTB 
> Rangers) with sufficient clearance even without fenders, this bike would be 
> at the absolute top and pinnacle of my list; as it is, the Monocog 
> replacement currently resides there.
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 10:14 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [image: 84256557-932F-4AD7-99B6-8BE9DC178396.jpeg]Can we talk about the 
>> Rivendell Clems for a minute? I hesitate as I write this, because opinions 
>> on here tend to be strong, but I see this as a fun topic and worth 
>> exploring. We can be nice, even if we disagree. I have been seeing Clems in 
>> several colors, in a variety of configurations, all over Instagram. Blue 
>> Lug and Helmet Kids are two of my favorite bike Instagram accounts, and 
>> they frequently feature Clems on their group rides. Calling In Sick, a bike 
>> magazine you’ve likely heard of, did an entire issue on the magic of the 
>> Clem, which is also all over Instagram. I suppose it could be that Clem 
>> popularity is imagined by me; I personally love Clems and therefore notice 
>> them, so I’ll add that caveat here. But I really do think the Clems are 
>> having their moment.
>>
>> When I first discovered Rivendell in 2012 the only social media I knew 
>> about was the List.  The bikes were all lugged, and built with silver 
>> parts. There was a definite prescribed look. The demographics of the group 
>> were not exactly varied. There were few women, and even fewer in my age 
>> bracket (early 30s).  But then Grant made the bike he said he’d never 
>> make, and the TIG’d Clem was among us. With the coronation of the Clem, 
>> those unable to afford a Rivendell suddenly could. I began seeing 
>> younger people riding them. Baby seats began popping up on these bikes. (I 
>> felt like I was the only one in the Rivendell world pulling my kid on my 
>> Betty Foy in 2012.) And in several generations of Clems, the owners have 
>> now taken that bike in new directions. Clems are for everyone! 
>>
>> The Clems are pure Rivendell in manners and ride, but they are divergent. 
>> Black parts abound. 1x gearing. Trigger shifting. Young dudes shredding all 
>> over the ‘Gram