Re: [RBW] NMSW

[Bill Lindsay]

I concur that I had some black anodized non machined sidewall cliffhangers 
on a 650B Atlantis and koolstop salmons were horrible on those rims.  They 
howled like crazy and didn't stop well.  Regular black (original Tektro) 
pads worked fine.  

If there is a takehome message, I think it is this:  Machined sidewall rims 
are CONSISTENT.  They pretty much always work the same way.  Non Machined 
Sidewalls are LESS CONSISTENT.  You will hear anecdotes where some were 
fine, and others not so much.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 7:14:13 AM UTC-7 chintan...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Josh
>
> In the recent rivendell email, an appaloosa was linked which has the 
> following on it's description page
>
> "Another caveat: We always prefer non-machined sidewalls because they last 
> longer, but when paired with salmon pads, they squeal until the rims are 
> more broken in. We're including a set of non salmon pads with this bike, so 
> you can swap them out if it's too noisy. A couple rides in the rain or lots 
> of dusty rides should do the trick as well. See the pads in the pictures."
>
> Chintan
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 6:16:18 PM UTC+5:30 Josh C wrote:
>
>> @tell, John: thanks for the reply. I appreciate the insight; it helps. I 
>> think I'll stick with the NMSW Cliffhangers. 
>>
>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:45:59 PM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Josh,
>>>
>>> I recently built up some Velocity Cliffhangers with nmsw. I also have a 
>>> set that do have machined sidewalls. I've run them both- mostly in dry 
>>> conditions, but some wet- and I can't really tell any difference in 
>>> stopping time or power. I have a pair of Avid arch supremes doing the rim 
>>> grabbing and they are amazing. So, maybe in comes down to the kind of 
>>> brakes, but in my case no discernable difference.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Cheers, John
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 4:40:18 PM UTC-7 tellyoutoday wrote:
>>>
 I had this concern before getting some non-machined Atlases a few years 
 back. Turned out to not matter at all for performance from my perspective, 
 and once your pads pick up some dust/grit they will rough up the rim 
 surface a bit anyway. 

 On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> He didn't exactly say not to go with the cliffhangers just said "hey 
> those rims are NMSW, are you ok with that?" which gave me pause. So I 
> thought about it and all of my rim brake wheels have had machined side 
> walls. Maybe a BMX bike or two when I was young were NMSW but I can't 
> remember. Figured I'd ask before ordering wheels and regretting it. 
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:44:21 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I 
>> mean, starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop 
>> just fine before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and 
>> ME14As 
>> for almost 30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon 
>> pads stop just fine on my single pivot calipers.
>>
>> All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even 
>> chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry 
>> conditions.
>>
>> I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims. 
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim 
>>> brakes. Poor stopping power? 
>>>
>>> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached 
>>> out to a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger 
>>> wheels 
>>> and they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what 
>>> experience 
>>> you all have with 'em. 
>>>
>>> Thanks 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/701b2798-b758-4204-9b1e-3852e9024347n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] NMSW

[Josh C]

Thanks. I didn't think much of it until they asked me if I was ok with 
NMSW. Thanks again. 

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 10:14:13 AM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi Josh
>
> In the recent rivendell email, an appaloosa was linked which has the 
> following on it's description page
>
> "Another caveat: We always prefer non-machined sidewalls because they last 
> longer, but when paired with salmon pads, they squeal until the rims are 
> more broken in. We're including a set of non salmon pads with this bike, so 
> you can swap them out if it's too noisy. A couple rides in the rain or lots 
> of dusty rides should do the trick as well. See the pads in the pictures."
>
> Chintan
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 6:16:18 PM UTC+5:30 Josh C wrote:
>
>> @tell, John: thanks for the reply. I appreciate the insight; it helps. I 
>> think I'll stick with the NMSW Cliffhangers. 
>>
>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:45:59 PM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Josh,
>>>
>>> I recently built up some Velocity Cliffhangers with nmsw. I also have a 
>>> set that do have machined sidewalls. I've run them both- mostly in dry 
>>> conditions, but some wet- and I can't really tell any difference in 
>>> stopping time or power. I have a pair of Avid arch supremes doing the rim 
>>> grabbing and they are amazing. So, maybe in comes down to the kind of 
>>> brakes, but in my case no discernable difference.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Cheers, John
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 4:40:18 PM UTC-7 tellyoutoday wrote:
>>>
 I had this concern before getting some non-machined Atlases a few years 
 back. Turned out to not matter at all for performance from my perspective, 
 and once your pads pick up some dust/grit they will rough up the rim 
 surface a bit anyway. 

 On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> He didn't exactly say not to go with the cliffhangers just said "hey 
> those rims are NMSW, are you ok with that?" which gave me pause. So I 
> thought about it and all of my rim brake wheels have had machined side 
> walls. Maybe a BMX bike or two when I was young were NMSW but I can't 
> remember. Figured I'd ask before ordering wheels and regretting it. 
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:44:21 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I 
>> mean, starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop 
>> just fine before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and 
>> ME14As 
>> for almost 30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon 
>> pads stop just fine on my single pivot calipers.
>>
>> All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even 
>> chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry 
>> conditions.
>>
>> I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims. 
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim 
>>> brakes. Poor stopping power? 
>>>
>>> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached 
>>> out to a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger 
>>> wheels 
>>> and they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what 
>>> experience 
>>> you all have with 'em. 
>>>
>>> Thanks 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/701b2798-b758-4204-9b1e-3852e9024347n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] NMSW

[chintan jadwani]

Hi Josh

In the recent rivendell email, an appaloosa was linked which has the 
following on it's description page

"Another caveat: We always prefer non-machined sidewalls because they last 
longer, but when paired with salmon pads, they squeal until the rims are 
more broken in. We're including a set of non salmon pads with this bike, so 
you can swap them out if it's too noisy. A couple rides in the rain or lots 
of dusty rides should do the trick as well. See the pads in the pictures."

Chintan
On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 6:16:18 PM UTC+5:30 Josh C wrote:

> @tell, John: thanks for the reply. I appreciate the insight; it helps. I 
> think I'll stick with the NMSW Cliffhangers. 
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:45:59 PM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Hey Josh,
>>
>> I recently built up some Velocity Cliffhangers with nmsw. I also have a 
>> set that do have machined sidewalls. I've run them both- mostly in dry 
>> conditions, but some wet- and I can't really tell any difference in 
>> stopping time or power. I have a pair of Avid arch supremes doing the rim 
>> grabbing and they are amazing. So, maybe in comes down to the kind of 
>> brakes, but in my case no discernable difference.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 4:40:18 PM UTC-7 tellyoutoday wrote:
>>
>>> I had this concern before getting some non-machined Atlases a few years 
>>> back. Turned out to not matter at all for performance from my perspective, 
>>> and once your pads pick up some dust/grit they will rough up the rim 
>>> surface a bit anyway. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 Thanks!

 He didn't exactly say not to go with the cliffhangers just said "hey 
 those rims are NMSW, are you ok with that?" which gave me pause. So I 
 thought about it and all of my rim brake wheels have had machined side 
 walls. Maybe a BMX bike or two when I was young were NMSW but I can't 
 remember. Figured I'd ask before ordering wheels and regretting it. 

 On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:44:21 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I 
> mean, starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop 
> just fine before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and 
> ME14As 
> for almost 30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon 
> pads stop just fine on my single pivot calipers.
>
> All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even 
> chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry 
> conditions.
>
> I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims. 
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:
>
>> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim 
>> brakes. Poor stopping power? 
>>
>> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out 
>> to a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels 
>> and 
>> they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience 
>> you 
>> all have with 'em. 
>>
>> Thanks 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/701b2798-b758-4204-9b1e-3852e9024347n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] NMSW

[Josh C]

@tell, John: thanks for the reply. I appreciate the insight; it helps. I 
think I'll stick with the NMSW Cliffhangers. 

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:45:59 PM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:

> Hey Josh,
>
> I recently built up some Velocity Cliffhangers with nmsw. I also have a 
> set that do have machined sidewalls. I've run them both- mostly in dry 
> conditions, but some wet- and I can't really tell any difference in 
> stopping time or power. I have a pair of Avid arch supremes doing the rim 
> grabbing and they are amazing. So, maybe in comes down to the kind of 
> brakes, but in my case no discernable difference.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 4:40:18 PM UTC-7 tellyoutoday wrote:
>
>> I had this concern before getting some non-machined Atlases a few years 
>> back. Turned out to not matter at all for performance from my perspective, 
>> and once your pads pick up some dust/grit they will rough up the rim 
>> surface a bit anyway. 
>>
>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> He didn't exactly say not to go with the cliffhangers just said "hey 
>>> those rims are NMSW, are you ok with that?" which gave me pause. So I 
>>> thought about it and all of my rim brake wheels have had machined side 
>>> walls. Maybe a BMX bike or two when I was young were NMSW but I can't 
>>> remember. Figured I'd ask before ordering wheels and regretting it. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:44:21 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I mean, 
 starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop just 
 fine 
 before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and ME14As for 
 almost 
 30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon pads stop 
 just fine on my single pivot calipers.

 All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even 
 chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry 
 conditions.

 I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims. 

 On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:

> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim 
> brakes. Poor stopping power? 
>
> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out 
> to a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels 
> and 
> they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you 
> all have with 'em. 
>
> Thanks 
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/701b2798-b758-4204-9b1e-3852e9024347n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum



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Re: [RBW] NMSW

[John Rinker]

Hey Josh,

I recently built up some Velocity Cliffhangers with nmsw. I also have a set 
that do have machined sidewalls. I've run them both- mostly in dry 
conditions, but some wet- and I can't really tell any difference in 
stopping time or power. I have a pair of Avid arch supremes doing the rim 
grabbing and they are amazing. So, maybe in comes down to the kind of 
brakes, but in my case no discernable difference.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, John

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 4:40:18 PM UTC-7 tellyoutoday wrote:

> I had this concern before getting some non-machined Atlases a few years 
> back. Turned out to not matter at all for performance from my perspective, 
> and once your pads pick up some dust/grit they will rough up the rim 
> surface a bit anyway. 
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> He didn't exactly say not to go with the cliffhangers just said "hey 
>> those rims are NMSW, are you ok with that?" which gave me pause. So I 
>> thought about it and all of my rim brake wheels have had machined side 
>> walls. Maybe a BMX bike or two when I was young were NMSW but I can't 
>> remember. Figured I'd ask before ordering wheels and regretting it. 
>>
>> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:44:21 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I mean, 
>>> starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop just fine 
>>> before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and ME14As for almost 
>>> 30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon pads stop 
>>> just fine on my single pivot calipers.
>>>
>>> All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even 
>>> chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry conditions.
>>>
>>> I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims. 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:
>>>
 Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim brakes. 
 Poor stopping power? 

 I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out 
 to a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels and 
 they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you 
 all have with 'em. 

 Thanks 

 -- 
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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] NMSW

[tellyoutoday]

I had this concern before getting some non-machined Atlases a few years 
back. Turned out to not matter at all for performance from my perspective, 
and once your pads pick up some dust/grit they will rough up the rim 
surface a bit anyway. 

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> He didn't exactly say not to go with the cliffhangers just said "hey those 
> rims are NMSW, are you ok with that?" which gave me pause. So I thought 
> about it and all of my rim brake wheels have had machined side walls. Maybe 
> a BMX bike or two when I was young were NMSW but I can't remember. Figured 
> I'd ask before ordering wheels and regretting it. 
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:44:21 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I mean, 
>> starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop just fine 
>> before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and ME14As for almost 
>> 30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon pads stop 
>> just fine on my single pivot calipers.
>>
>> All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even 
>> chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry conditions.
>>
>> I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims. 
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim brakes. 
>>> Poor stopping power? 
>>>
>>> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out to 
>>> a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels and 
>>> they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you 
>>> all have with 'em. 
>>>
>>> Thanks 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/701b2798-b758-4204-9b1e-3852e9024347n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] NMSW

[Josh C]

Thanks!

He didn't exactly say not to go with the cliffhangers just said "hey those 
rims are NMSW, are you ok with that?" which gave me pause. So I thought 
about it and all of my rim brake wheels have had machined side walls. Maybe 
a BMX bike or two when I was young were NMSW but I can't remember. Figured 
I'd ask before ordering wheels and regretting it. 

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:44:21 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I mean, 
> starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop just fine 
> before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and ME14As for almost 
> 30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon pads stop 
> just fine on my single pivot calipers.
>
> All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even 
> chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry conditions.
>
> I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims. 
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:
>
>> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim brakes. 
>> Poor stopping power? 
>>
>> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out to 
>> a wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels and 
>> they cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you 
>> all have with 'em. 
>>
>> Thanks 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/701b2798-b758-4204-9b1e-3852e9024347n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] NMSW

[Patrick Moore]

That is very odd. Aren't machined brake tracks relative recent (I mean,
starting from the 1990s, or perhaps 1980s? People managed to stop just fine
before that. And I've been using a stash of Sun M14As and ME14As for almost
30 years and those don't have machined braking tracks; salmon pads stop
just fine on my single pivot calipers.

All the old road bike rim classics: MA2s, Open Pros, etc,? Hell, even
chromed steel rims work fine with cheap rubber brake pads in dry conditions.

I think he's trying to sell you a new pair of rims.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:19 PM Josh C  wrote:

> Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim brakes.
> Poor stopping power?
>
> I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out to a
> wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels and they
> cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you all
> have with 'em.
>
> Thanks
>
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> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] NMSW

[Josh C]

Looking for your take on non-machined side wall wheels with rim brakes. 
Poor stopping power? 

I don't have experience with NMSW and rim brakes but just reached out to a 
wheel builder about building a set of polished cliffhanger wheels and they 
cautioned me regarding the NMSW. Figured I'd see what experience you all 
have with 'em. 

Thanks 

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