[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
On Jan 5, 1:37 pm, Anne Paulson wrote: > This is genius. I wave drivers by to let them know I know they're > there, but I didn't have a signal for, "Calm down, I know you're > there, hang on a minute." > > On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: > > On the topic of "taking the lane" , I've had much success with hand signals. > > hold up one finger to exclaim "hang on a minute and we'll get past this > > together"; > > -- > -- Anne Paulson Good points, but the drivers I worry about are not the ones who wait, either patiently or impatiently, for a signal. I am more than happy to wave them by. Out here in the country pretty much everybody waves at everybody anyway. It's the ones who decide at a distance it's okay to speed up and hurry around (in spite of oncoming traffic and precious little room to spare) who worry me, risking my life to save themselves a few lousy seconds. Fortunately those are few. I live in an area near a major university (about twelve miles from Athens, GA) where cycling is common and seems to be on the increase. I think awareness of cyclists and courtesy from motorists has improved here over the last few years. Bill -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 10:26 -0800, Joe Bernard wrote: > On the topic of "taking the lane" , I've had much success with hand > signals. I get a hand out to warn the driver I'm pulling away from > parked cars now; hold up one finger to exclaim "hang on a minute and > we'll get past this together"; then a "wave-by" as I swerve back to > the right when the curb opens up. I purposely do an exaggerated "big > swoop" to the right, which tells the driver "I'm getting the heck > outta your way so you can get on with your day, and thanks for > waiting". Clever, but I think you have to be VERY careful about how you display that one finger, so it won't be mistaken for a very different one-finger hand signal... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
I've found that, even in bike lanes, riding more toward the left actually encourages drivers to give me more room: creeping along at the far right, even in bike lanes, seems to tell drivers that they can crowd the bike lane. Fortunately, Albuquerque is both pretty mellow for cyclists and (at least in the newer parts) has good bicycle infrastructure in lanes, routes, paths and -- a few years ago -- publicity to "share the road." I've had a few idiots come close to sideswiping me, but 8/10 of this sort of thing -- in itself rare, thank God -- is simply inattention rather than deliberate. We've had a 3-foot law for at least a decade. An aside: our new Republican governor, who took over in a surprise win from 3-timer, old-time-NM-Democrat-machine mayor Marty Chavez, who did much to make the city more aesthetic, livable and cycle-able, has very meritoriously kept cycling and other "livability" goals at the top of his administration's list. On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Bill Carter wrote: > Jim, > I believe we all have had similar experiences. A recent law was > passed here in Georgia that requires motorists to give cyclists at > least three feet clearance, but it remains to be seen whether the > police will actually enforce it, and publicity to educate the motoring > public about the new law has been sorely lacking. I was once buzzed > on an uphill by a huge black SUV, and I moved over toward the center > of the lane thinking that might dissuade the next idiot from trying > the same stunt. Well, a sheriff's car pulled me over to lecture me > for not riding far enough to the right. I was tempted to ask him how > many cars he had pulled over in his career for buzzing cyclists too > close, but I figured arguing with the long arm of the law might not be > a good idea. Thanks for the reminder to "be careful out there," and > to be respectful of others on the forum because life's just too > short. > Bill Carter > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
I have found that drivers appreciate it when I let them know that they're behind me. I wave forward when it's safe to pass, and if there's a car coming that they may not be able to see (or if there's something in road that I need to ride around, again that they probably wouldn't see) I wave them back. Almost without exception, I get a good response from motorists. ... Which brings to mind the time that a friend and I pulled up to a stop at a signal. The motorist who also stopped at the signal rolled his window down to thank us for stopping, noting that most riders wouldn't have stopped. Being guilty of that myself (not stopping) on occasion, I know that there is work to be done to build good will for cyclists, which is why I try to be as courteous as possible whenever I can. --Eric N Sent from my iPad2 On Jan 5, 2012, at 10:41 AM, William wrote: > I had that experience up on Wildcat. Just past the botanical gardens Wildcat > is narrow and winding two lanes. I took the lane and a car came up behind > me. I saw an approaching car that the car behind me could not see because I > had a better view around the bend. I put the left hand down for stay back. > After the approaching car passed I had a good view of the road a good > distance up and it was clear. I waved them up. and the car passed safely > using the entire oncoming lane. The passenger rolled down the window and > waved and gave a thumbs up. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/auWGPb-JgToJ. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
Matt wrote: "I don't think anyone was suggesting riding in the center of the road. However, 'taking the lane', or moving away from the shoulder to discourage motor traffic from trying to 'squeeze past' when it is not safe to do so (road is too narrow, oncoming traffic, debris in the shoulder, etc) is a well documented strategy for riding a bicycle safely on the roads." You read me correctly, Matt, not middle of the road but away from the shoulder and toward the center of the right lane to discourage such risky passing. Sorry if I was not clear enough, and I appreciate the clarification. The SUVs and pickups in rural GA are much bigger than I am, so Bruce is right also. Retaliation is not the brightest idea. Bill -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
I had that experience up on Wildcat. Just past the botanical gardens Wildcat is narrow and winding two lanes. I took the lane and a car came up behind me. I saw an approaching car that the car behind me could not see because I had a better view around the bend. I put the left hand down for stay back. After the approaching car passed I had a good view of the road a good distance up and it was clear. I waved them up. and the car passed safely using the entire oncoming lane. The passenger rolled down the window and waved and gave a thumbs up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/auWGPb-JgToJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
This is genius. I wave drivers by to let them know I know they're there, but I didn't have a signal for, "Calm down, I know you're there, hang on a minute." On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: > On the topic of "taking the lane" , I've had much success with hand signals. > hold up one finger to exclaim "hang on a minute and we'll get past this > together"; -- -- Anne Paulson My hovercraft is full of eels -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
On the topic of "taking the lane" , I've had much success with hand signals. I get a hand out to warn the driver I'm pulling away from parked cars now; hold up one finger to exclaim "hang on a minute and we'll get past this together"; then a "wave-by" as I swerve back to the right when the curb opens up. I purposely do an exaggerated "big swoop" to the right, which tells the driver "I'm getting the heck outta your way so you can get on with your day, and thanks for waiting". I believe this goes a long way towards keeping the peace, because the driver is being communicated with that "this is temporary", instead of sitting there thinking of me as an endless road block. I also think it "teaches" them what we're dealing with: "Oh, he's not just arbitrarily taking up the whole damn road. He's run out of room." If we think all drivers instinctively understand this, we're wrong. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/1AVbO6btIZwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
Actually in Honolulu taking the lane is more or less gospel...at least when necessary. I generally keep a copy of the regulations in my bag just in case I ever do get stopped (hasn't happened yet). Riding on roadways and bikeways (§291C-145) When traveling slower than the normal speed of traffic, bicyclists are to ride as close to the right hand curb or on the shoulder of the roadway, as practical. Be careful when passing a stopped vehicle or one going the same direction. There are the allowed exceptions to the "right hand" rule: When preparing for a left turn at an intersection, private road, or driveway; When necessary to avoid hazards that make it unsafe to ride along the right hand curb. *This includes situations where the traffic lane is too narrow for a bicycle and a motor vehicle to travel safely side-by-side*; or For me this is particularly applicable on one short stretch of road I have to everyday on my way home from work. It's four lanes, two each way, and the right hand lane is very slow because of folks turning right to schools and a freeway entrance. I ride in the left hand lane because I'm much faster than the traffic in the right hand lane and not any slower than the left lane traffic. To top it off I turn left after about three blocks of this anyway. The police have never said a thing, indeed given the schools in the area and the level of traffic they are often in the around and I've actually ridden in the left lane behind them. Today though, on my way to work I had to deal with a one of things I hate the most, a driver coming up behind me, pulling out to pass then immediately getting back into the right lane to make a right hand turn in front of me. As there was little traffic I was able to move to the left lane to pass him while he was still slowing for the turn. What's up with that? If he'd have just stayed behind me he'd have been to the corner at pretty much exactly the same time anyway. Sigh. It was a nice morning and I didn't even yell. Maybe I'm getting better. :-) Aloha, Bob On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 7:43 AM, newenglandbike wrote: > You may have misread Bill's post (or maybe I am misreading it).I don't > think anyone was suggesting riding in the center of the road. However, > 'taking the lane', or moving away from the shoulder to discourage motor > traffic from trying to 'squeeze past' when it is not safe to do so (road is > too narrow, oncoming traffic, debris in the shoulder, etc) is a well > documented strategy for riding a bicycle safely on the roads. Sure it > isn't gospel, and some disagree with this strategy- but to heck with > anyone (police or whoever) who tells me not to use it- it has saved my ass > many times, whereas obsequiously hugging the shoulder has proven hazardous > (in my experience). > > > Safe travels > > -Matt > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/lFGV3WPV7mAJ. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- Robert Harrison rfharri...@gmail.com statrix.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
PS. that was directed at Joe, Anne you snuck in there before I could hit 'post'. PPS In anticipation of the inevitable misinterpretation of my internets usage by someone reading this thread, I was kidding -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/90qp5x619lQJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
Yep. That's pretty much how it works. ;-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/N7bnqr-ab7AJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
WTF is that supposed to mean!? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/zyW0UyIjRoMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
When I ride in the center of the lane, which is normally called "taking the lane," I don't do it in the spirit of retaliation. Rather, I do it when in my judgement the lane is too narrow to allow passing. I hope to signal to following cars that there is no room to pass and they shouldn't try it. Hugging the gutter in such cases tempts drivers to try to pass when it's unsafe. On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Bruce Curry wrote: > In the spirit of peace love and understanding... > > Retaliation is not a sustainable strategy. Riding in the center of > the road merely serves to irritate your fellow travelers and > reinforces negative stereotypes and behavior directed towards you as > well as all other bikes on the road. The only sensible choice is hold > yourself to your own high standard of behavior and hope that others > choose to do the same. You can no more make driving choices for them > than they can riding choices for you. -- -- Anne Paulson My hovercraft is full of eels -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
I believe the main point of James' post is being missed. It seems directed at arguments among cyclers here recently. The man has a point, which I will take into consideration before hitting "reply" in the future. In my "other internet life" I have a running political discourse with a group of folks on the other side of the ideological fence. There's a slightly confrontational style to it which we consider "part of the sport", and I think it bleeds into my comments here too often. I'll work on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/pZp4PT06hXAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
You may have misread Bill's post (or maybe I am misreading it).I don't think anyone was suggesting riding in the center of the road. However, 'taking the lane', or moving away from the shoulder to discourage motor traffic from trying to 'squeeze past' when it is not safe to do so (road is too narrow, oncoming traffic, debris in the shoulder, etc) is a well documented strategy for riding a bicycle safely on the roads. Sure it isn't gospel, and some disagree with this strategy- but to heck with anyone (police or whoever) who tells me not to use it- it has saved my ass many times, whereas obsequiously hugging the shoulder has proven hazardous (in my experience). Safe travels -Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/lFGV3WPV7mAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
In the spirit of peace love and understanding... Retaliation is not a sustainable strategy. Riding in the center of the road merely serves to irritate your fellow travelers and reinforces negative stereotypes and behavior directed towards you as well as all other bikes on the road. The only sensible choice is hold yourself to your own high standard of behavior and hope that others choose to do the same. You can no more make driving choices for them than they can riding choices for you. Bruce On Jan 4, 7:07 pm, Bill Carter wrote: > Jim, > I believe we all have had similar experiences. A recent law was > passed here in Georgia that requires motorists to give cyclists at > least three feet clearance, but it remains to be seen whether the > police will actually enforce it, and publicity to educate the motoring > public about the new law has been sorely lacking. I was once buzzed > on an uphill by a huge black SUV, and I moved over toward the center > of the lane thinking that might dissuade the next idiot from trying > the same stunt. Well, a sheriff's car pulled me over to lecture me > for not riding far enough to the right. I was tempted to ask him how > many cars he had pulled over in his career for buzzing cyclists too > close, but I figured arguing with the long arm of the law might not be > a good idea. Thanks for the reminder to "be careful out there," and > to be respectful of others on the forum because life's just too > short. > Bill Carter -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
Funny side note: about a minute ago, at the instant I clicked on your e-mail, the characters on the "Law & Order" episode on my tv mentioned a character named "Bill Carter". On Jan 4, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Bill Carter wrote: > Jim, > I believe we all have had similar experiences. A recent law was > passed here in Georgia that requires motorists to give cyclists at > least three feet clearance, but it remains to be seen whether the > police will actually enforce it, and publicity to educate the motoring > public about the new law has been sorely lacking. I was once buzzed > on an uphill by a huge black SUV, and I moved over toward the center > of the lane thinking that might dissuade the next idiot from trying > the same stunt. Well, a sheriff's car pulled me over to lecture me > for not riding far enough to the right. I was tempted to ask him how > many cars he had pulled over in his career for buzzing cyclists too > close, but I figured arguing with the long arm of the law might not be > a good idea. Thanks for the reminder to "be careful out there," and > to be respectful of others on the forum because life's just too > short. > Bill Carter > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
Jim, I believe we all have had similar experiences. A recent law was passed here in Georgia that requires motorists to give cyclists at least three feet clearance, but it remains to be seen whether the police will actually enforce it, and publicity to educate the motoring public about the new law has been sorely lacking. I was once buzzed on an uphill by a huge black SUV, and I moved over toward the center of the lane thinking that might dissuade the next idiot from trying the same stunt. Well, a sheriff's car pulled me over to lecture me for not riding far enough to the right. I was tempted to ask him how many cars he had pulled over in his career for buzzing cyclists too close, but I figured arguing with the long arm of the law might not be a good idea. Thanks for the reminder to "be careful out there," and to be respectful of others on the forum because life's just too short. Bill Carter -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
