[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Bill M.]

For me, bounce is the operative word.  Over bigger bumps the Flyer will 
bounce enough to launch my butt off of the saddle.  That's what happens 
when you have springs with no damping.  Kind of useless off-pavement IMO, 
but it does add some comfort on reasonably paved roads.  I put mine into 
service every so often (it's on my Clem right now) but eventually decide 
it's not worth the extra weight and off it comes again.

Bill

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 6:15:51 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles, 
> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and 
> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it. 
>
> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring 
> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>
> Enlighten me!
>
> René 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Eric Floden]

I did not think my springs compressed so had someone follow to watch
...turns out they do, noticeably.

Eric
220 lbs

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

The springs* do* compress. I can feel them do so on small and large bumps 
alike, at different levels of travel depending on the roughness of the 
road. Saddle will bounce more on the bigger bumps. I pedal in the 80's 
cadence range. The saddle bounces along like you are in a limo. But not too 
much, so you can pedal with no interruption. However, at higher cadences, 
like maybe 100 it starts to interfere.



 

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot an aside, worthy of another thread. Thus:

Am I alone in finding 50 mm, at least for 700C wheels, a sweet spot for
pavement and loose dirt? The F Freds measure 51 mm with my electronic
caliper, and while I do notice that 51 mm at 17/20 does not float as well,
nor roll as cush, as 15/18 and 65 mm (Big Apples; stouter, though still
supple sidewalls -- the beef in the BA is in the tread and lining), I also
notice that they track straighter through 2" of sand than 40-somethings --
I ride some of the same firmer bits on the Elk Passes, and while those are
surprisingly cushy for 28s, the 50s just feel right. With the F Freds, I
can ride anything I rode with the 65 mm Big Apples, albeit perhaps in the
deeper parts, with a bit more effort, and when I have to get off to push,
it's in places where 14 more mm wouldn't have let me ride, either.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Nice looking ride -- that's pretty much how I'd set up a bike for road
> use. The Matthews' bar is about even with saddle. And yet you find the
> springs do help. I'll have to try another Flyer, some day.
>
> Yesterday's ride on the Matthews, a bit over 25 miles, covered at least 22
> miles on dirt, say 3-4 of singletrack and 15 of pretty rough dirt and
> gravel; the remaining dirt miles on the wide, smoothish crusher fine
> "shoulders" of the paved bits -- Parks 'n' Rec were out improving the
> surfaces*. On the Conservancy access roads, there were plenty of high
> frequency and low amplitude bumps, including washboard. The 51 mm F Freds
> were at ~18/21, a good compromise for dirt and pavement.
>
> Although the Matthews is noticeably less jarring than the Fargo or the
> Redline Monocg 29er (now *there* was a frameset that could negate soft,
> 60+ mm tires!) I sometimes wonder if some butt suspension wouldn't be nice.
> OTOH, 2 lbs versus a bit more than half a lb -- that makes me pause. And, I
> after so many years, I have acquired the unthinking reflex of hoisting
> myself on my legs and loosening my grip when I see rough terrain. (Saddle
> is a later edition Flite, wide enough for my behind.)
>
> Now that Brooks is catering to the expensive crowd, why don't they put
> carbon fiber to real use and develop a sprung undercarriage using
> lightweight cf?
>
> * From a bit north of Coors and Montano to a bit south of Rio Bravo. I
> hear you can ride south until Isleta Pueblo land stops public access --
> about where I-25 curves west -- but I've not been that far. That's my next
> goal.
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:
>
>> I'm set up in kops on my Bleriot . You can see the the seatpost and the
>> way the saddle set up on it here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/7023
>> 7737@N00/TnUUnm
>>
>> KOPS on Sam:  https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm
>>
>> Always perfect bounce from day one.
>> I wonder why they don't bounce for some people? Maybe there's enough
>> differences in the human body that the subtleties won't allow it to work
>> for some but they work for others? I don't know. Maybe I just have more
>> junk in the trunk ha ha Ha.
>>
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>
>
>
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> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Patrick Moore]

Nice looking ride -- that's pretty much how I'd set up a bike for road use.
The Matthews' bar is about even with saddle. And yet you find the springs
do help. I'll have to try another Flyer, some day.

Yesterday's ride on the Matthews, a bit over 25 miles, covered at least 22
miles on dirt, say 3-4 of singletrack and 15 of pretty rough dirt and
gravel; the remaining dirt miles on the wide, smoothish crusher fine
"shoulders" of the paved bits -- Parks 'n' Rec were out improving the
surfaces*. On the Conservancy access roads, there were plenty of high
frequency and low amplitude bumps, including washboard. The 51 mm F Freds
were at ~18/21, a good compromise for dirt and pavement.

Although the Matthews is noticeably less jarring than the Fargo or the
Redline Monocg 29er (now *there* was a frameset that could negate soft, 60+
mm tires!) I sometimes wonder if some butt suspension wouldn't be nice.
OTOH, 2 lbs versus a bit more than half a lb -- that makes me pause. And, I
after so many years, I have acquired the unthinking reflex of hoisting
myself on my legs and loosening my grip when I see rough terrain. (Saddle
is a later edition Flite, wide enough for my behind.)

Now that Brooks is catering to the expensive crowd, why don't they put
carbon fiber to real use and develop a sprung undercarriage using
lightweight cf?

* From a bit north of Coors and Montano to a bit south of Rio Bravo. I hear
you can ride south until Isleta Pueblo land stops public access -- about
where I-25 curves west -- but I've not been that far. That's my next goal.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> I'm set up in kops on my Bleriot . You can see the the seatpost and the
> way the saddle set up on it here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/
> 70237737@N00/TnUUnm
>
> KOPS on Sam:  https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm
>
> Always perfect bounce from day one.
> I wonder why they don't bounce for some people? Maybe there's enough
> differences in the human body that the subtleties won't allow it to work
> for some but they work for others? I don't know. Maybe I just have more
> junk in the trunk ha ha Ha.
>
> --
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**
**
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circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
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world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

I'm set up in kops on my Bleriot . You can see the the seatpost and the way the 
saddle set up on it here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm

KOPS on Sam:  https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm

Always perfect bounce from day one.
I wonder why they don't bounce for some people? Maybe there's enough 
differences in the human body that the subtleties won't allow it to work for 
some but they work for others? I don't know. Maybe I just have more junk in the 
trunk ha ha Ha.

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RE: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Ray Varella]

Anecdotally, my stoker noticed an improvement in comfort with a sprung flyer 
over a non-sprung but well broken in B-17. 

It's hard to say how measurable the suspension is but when you forget to 
mention or don't see a bump in time and the stoker says "that wasn't bad", it's 
worth having. 

Ray
Vallejo CA

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RE: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[olofstroh]

 

Patrick Moore wrote:

I couldn't get any suspension (that I noticed) from the Flyer I owned. Is there 
a secret to setting it up? I do recall that, because of the short rails, I had 
to buy a new seatpost with a lot of setback (Thompson, perhaps?). Could this 
have been the reason that springs weren't compressing?

 

I say: No, the Flyer doesn´t give you ’suspension’; it dampens vibration. It is 
very firm and feels like a normal B17 except for that which is a good thing 
touring or on trail/bad roads but otherwise not noticeable.

 

Olof Stroh

Uppsala Sweden

Two B17s, two Flyers and one B66Champion (old model with B17/Flyer-shaped 
leather but double rails and same springs as the Flyer, used on my Heron 
Touring with bars level with saddle).

 

 

 

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Frank Brose  wrote:

My Atlantis is set up with Noodle Bars and a Flyer. Works for me.

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:15:51 PM UTC-5, René wrote:

This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles, such 
as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and in fact I 
really like the B67 I installed on it. 

 

However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring bike 
where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.

 

Enlighten me!

 

René 




 

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Patrick Moore]

I couldn't get any suspension (that I noticed) from the Flyer I owned. Is
there a secret to setting it up? I do recall that, because of the short
rails, I had to buy a new seatpost with a lot of setback (Thompson,
perhaps?). Could this have been the reason that springs weren't compressing?





On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Frank Brose  wrote:

> My Atlantis is set up with Noodle Bars and a Flyer. Works for me.
>
> On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:15:51 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles,
>> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and
>> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it.
>>
>> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring
>> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>>
>> Enlighten me!
>>
>> René
>>
>> --
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**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
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world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

They even have an imperial flyer now!

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Frank Brose]

My Atlantis is set up with Noodle Bars and a Flyer. Works for me.

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:15:51 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles, 
> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and 
> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it. 
>
> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring 
> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>
> Enlighten me!
>
> René 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

 I weigh 175. Both of my B-17 Flyers have always bounced just perfectly for me 
on my Bleriot and Sam and Rambouillet with drop bar 1.3cm below saddle height. 
Perfect also sitting bolt upright for me with Albatross bars! Turns your bike 
into a limousine! I ride centuries and the saddle is fantastic! Go for it!

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Matt Beecher]

The springs don't give much at all and I will say that I'm a fair amount 
heavier than Patrick.  It just smooths out the road/trail a tad to make all 
day riding just a bit more comfortable.  

One thing I will warn you about is that the flyer squeaks a lot.  I'm 
accustomed to it, but I imagine that it bothers a lot of people.  

As for the comparison to the B17, I agree that it is very similar in my 
opinion.  

-Matt

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[René Sterental]

Thanks! I may give it a try.

On Friday, October 21, 2016, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I tried a Flyer on an all-rounded mountain bike, with drop bar. I think
> that the bar -- 46 cm Noodle on 10 cm D Drop stem -- was even with saddle.
> The Flyer was no worse for me than the B 17, but I don't like the B 17, and
> I couldn't get the springs to give -- riding the Flyer was like riding the
> B 17.
>
> Point being, that IME, if you like B 17s, the Flyer ought to be fine with
> drop bar, at least as long as you are not expecting a lot of "give". I'm
> not particularly light -- 175.
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 7:15 PM, René Sterental  > wrote:
>
>> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles,
>> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and
>> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it.
>>
>> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring
>> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>>
>> Enlighten me!
>>
>> René
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
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> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Matt Beecher]

My Atlantis has a Flyer on it and I like the saddle quite a bit.  I had a 
drop bar on it, until I injured my hand.  After that, I changed to a 
moustache bar to take the weight off my injured hand, but plan to go back 
now that I am mostly healed.

-Matt

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