[RBW] Re: BRP
I'm with Brett and others here. I think the keyword on the ACLU link is discrimination. It would definitely depend on the specific wording in the law, but I reckon a white person would have to prove they were discriminated against, which would give the court or judge some leeway to consider the specific circumstances. I doubt its going to cause them a problem. Grant talks about that a bit in the blahg post too. My favorite part of the announcement on the blahg: "If we go broke because those who use the flag or God as an invisibility cloak for their white nationalism stop patronizing us, we'll have a "mixed feelings moment," roll down the roll-up door one final time, and move on." I'm pretty sure Grant has thought this through well enough to know where he stands, and we can all feel however we feel about it. Paul in AR On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 1:55:25 PM UTC-5 brettjc...@gmail.com wrote: > "Ladies Night" or a senior discount are both given based on an immutable > characteristic, yet are common. As Bill notes "positive discrimination" > such as race or sex based scholarships are allowable. I'm not convinced > this illegal. > > Grant and Co are certainly intelligent enough to have considered this > possibility and either determined it was allowable or decided the chances > of a legal challenge were low enough not to worry about. They don't need > all of us giving them pro bono legal advice! (Not that it isn't a fun thing > to discuss). > > On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: > >> Doug pointed out discounts are common. >> >> That's totally true, but I think the distinction Michael Gordon was >> making is that none of your example discounts are granted based on race, >> ethnicity or national origin. >> >> The example I would give is this: I'm Norwegian-American. There is a >> college scholarship for which I can apply that is earmarked for >> Norwegian-American applicants. I could hypothetically apply for that >> scholarship. If I get the scholarship, I could turn around and sue the >> organization that gave it to me on the basis of the quote on the ACLU >> website. It's a benefit that is granted based on my ethnicity. >> >> Similarly, the person who takes RBW to court would need to apply for the >> BRP discount, get the discount, and then sue RBW for giving them a >> discount. It would be a strange motivation to sue Rivendell Bicycle Works, >> but I think the strict interpretation of the law may mean there's an >> argument to be had, and I think the outcome of that argument could be >> really good. >> >> I don't think there is a grounds upon which an aggrieved consumer could >> sue Rivendell Bicycle Works because they had to pay normal price. You'd >> have to get the discount to have a case. >> >> I don't think the spirit of the law prohibits a private business from >> electing to pay reparations. I'll talk it over with my JD friends. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> >> On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 11:22:56 AM UTC-7 dougP wrote: >> >>> My understanding of BRP is that it is a *discount* off the list price. >>> These are given routinely in retail. When I got to the grocery store, I'm >>> given a discount because we are members of their discount program. Cutting >>> coupons can also yield a discount off the list price. My local bicycle >>> club has a discount arrangement with some shops. Adventure Cycling has a >>> list price for maps and a discount for members. Gas stations have differing >>> prices for cash & credit card. Qualifications for discounts seem to be >>> determined by the vendor. >>> >>> dougP >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 10:33:10 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: Michael Gordon pointed out that BRP is illegal. Excellent point, and welcome back! I'm still glad they are doing it. If somebody sues RBW and BRP is brought before a judge, I will be really interested to hear both sides of the argument. Better yet though, I hope 85 people get a helpful discount on fun bikes. Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-7 Michael G wrote: > Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price > discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. > > > https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ > > "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, > ethnicity, or national origin." > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit
[RBW] Re: BRP
"Ladies Night" or a senior discount are both given based on an immutable characteristic, yet are common. As Bill notes "positive discrimination" such as race or sex based scholarships are allowable. I'm not convinced this illegal. Grant and Co are certainly intelligent enough to have considered this possibility and either determined it was allowable or decided the chances of a legal challenge were low enough not to worry about. They don't need all of us giving them pro bono legal advice! (Not that it isn't a fun thing to discuss). On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: > Doug pointed out discounts are common. > > That's totally true, but I think the distinction Michael Gordon was making > is that none of your example discounts are granted based on race, ethnicity > or national origin. > > The example I would give is this: I'm Norwegian-American. There is a > college scholarship for which I can apply that is earmarked for > Norwegian-American applicants. I could hypothetically apply for that > scholarship. If I get the scholarship, I could turn around and sue the > organization that gave it to me on the basis of the quote on the ACLU > website. It's a benefit that is granted based on my ethnicity. > > Similarly, the person who takes RBW to court would need to apply for the > BRP discount, get the discount, and then sue RBW for giving them a > discount. It would be a strange motivation to sue Rivendell Bicycle Works, > but I think the strict interpretation of the law may mean there's an > argument to be had, and I think the outcome of that argument could be > really good. > > I don't think there is a grounds upon which an aggrieved consumer could > sue Rivendell Bicycle Works because they had to pay normal price. You'd > have to get the discount to have a case. > > I don't think the spirit of the law prohibits a private business from > electing to pay reparations. I'll talk it over with my JD friends. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 11:22:56 AM UTC-7 dougP wrote: > >> My understanding of BRP is that it is a *discount* off the list price. >> These are given routinely in retail. When I got to the grocery store, I'm >> given a discount because we are members of their discount program. Cutting >> coupons can also yield a discount off the list price. My local bicycle >> club has a discount arrangement with some shops. Adventure Cycling has a >> list price for maps and a discount for members. Gas stations have differing >> prices for cash & credit card. Qualifications for discounts seem to be >> determined by the vendor. >> >> dougP >> >> >> >> On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 10:33:10 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: >>> >>> Michael Gordon pointed out that BRP is illegal. >>> >>> Excellent point, and welcome back! I'm still glad they are doing it. >>> If somebody sues RBW and BRP is brought before a judge, I will be really >>> interested to hear both sides of the argument. Better yet though, I hope >>> 85 people get a helpful discount on fun bikes. >>> >>> Bill Lindsay >>> El Cerrito, CA >>> >>> On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-7 Michael G wrote: >>> Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin." >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/94794aaa-2c26-43de-9f94-274364105222n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Doug pointed out discounts are common. That's totally true, but I think the distinction Michael Gordon was making is that none of your example discounts are granted based on race, ethnicity or national origin. The example I would give is this: I'm Norwegian-American. There is a college scholarship for which I can apply that is earmarked for Norwegian-American applicants. I could hypothetically apply for that scholarship. If I get the scholarship, I could turn around and sue the organization that gave it to me on the basis of the quote on the ACLU website. It's a benefit that is granted based on my ethnicity. Similarly, the person who takes RBW to court would need to apply for the BRP discount, get the discount, and then sue RBW for giving them a discount. It would be a strange motivation to sue Rivendell Bicycle Works, but I think the strict interpretation of the law may mean there's an argument to be had, and I think the outcome of that argument could be really good. I don't think there is a grounds upon which an aggrieved consumer could sue Rivendell Bicycle Works because they had to pay normal price. You'd have to get the discount to have a case. I don't think the spirit of the law prohibits a private business from electing to pay reparations. I'll talk it over with my JD friends. Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 11:22:56 AM UTC-7 dougP wrote: > My understanding of BRP is that it is a *discount* off the list price. > These are given routinely in retail. When I got to the grocery store, I'm > given a discount because we are members of their discount program. Cutting > coupons can also yield a discount off the list price. My local bicycle > club has a discount arrangement with some shops. Adventure Cycling has a > list price for maps and a discount for members. Gas stations have differing > prices for cash & credit card. Qualifications for discounts seem to be > determined by the vendor. > > dougP > > > > On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 10:33:10 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >> Michael Gordon pointed out that BRP is illegal. >> >> Excellent point, and welcome back! I'm still glad they are doing it. If >> somebody sues RBW and BRP is brought before a judge, I will be really >> interested to hear both sides of the argument. Better yet though, I hope >> 85 people get a helpful discount on fun bikes. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> >> On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-7 Michael G wrote: >> >>> Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price >>> discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. >>> >>> >>> https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ >>> >>> "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, >>> ethnicity, or national origin." >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7309b693-62a4-4fbd-bb38-ad63f8c1ca0an%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
I happily contributed to BRP, but after hearing the legality issue, I'm hoping they would donate the funds to a good (related) cause instead of this program. Lawyers are expensive and margins are razor thin in bike business. On Friday, 2 October 2020 at 11:25:41 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote: > Yes it's known as redlining, or in this case would be kind of a reverse > redlining. Unless RBW has an army of lawyers on retainer (they don't) this > is a well-intentioned bad idea. Reparations would have to be passed by > Congress and established into law for this to work. > > On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-7 Michael G wrote: > >> Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price >> discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. >> >> >> https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ >> >> "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, >> or national origin." >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/59579c75-a3e0-4df5-bc09-d4b586bc8ea0n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Yes it's known as redlining, or in this case would be kind of a reverse redlining. Unless RBW has an army of lawyers on retainer (they don't) this is a well-intentioned bad idea. Reparations would have to be passed by Congress and established into law for this to work. On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-7 Michael G wrote: > Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price > discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. > > > https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ > > "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, > or national origin." > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e5d0e593-cc55-4770-9279-6ce38f7cfd10n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
My understanding of BRP is that it is a *discount* off the list price. These are given routinely in retail. When I got to the grocery store, I'm given a discount because we are members of their discount program. Cutting coupons can also yield a discount off the list price. My local bicycle club has a discount arrangement with some shops. Adventure Cycling has a list price for maps and a discount for members. Gas stations have differing prices for cash & credit card. Qualifications for discounts seem to be determined by the vendor. dougP On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 10:33:10 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > Michael Gordon pointed out that BRP is illegal. > > Excellent point, and welcome back! I'm still glad they are doing it. If > somebody sues RBW and BRP is brought before a judge, I will be really > interested to hear both sides of the argument. Better yet though, I hope > 85 people get a helpful discount on fun bikes. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-7 Michael G wrote: > >> Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price >> discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. >> >> >> https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ >> >> "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, >> or national origin." >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/82d91771-6fc7-4086-bfba-7c3883f30415o%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Michael Gordon pointed out that BRP is illegal. Excellent point, and welcome back! I'm still glad they are doing it. If somebody sues RBW and BRP is brought before a judge, I will be really interested to hear both sides of the argument. Better yet though, I hope 85 people get a helpful discount on fun bikes. Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-7 Michael G wrote: > Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price > discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. > > > https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ > > "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, > or national origin." > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6c57ef6e-a2d7-4284-b4a9-a275c056f4d3n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Regardless of good intentions and what you may think of BRP, price discrimination on the basis of race is illegal under Federal law. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-race-ethnicity-or-national-origin/ "you cannot be charged a different price because of your race, ethnicity, or national origin." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f21133a7-6e0d-46f3-8353-42ae1f253fc7n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Good read, Scott. Thank you for sharing. Seeing the video of him embedded in the piece reminded me of this piece by Coates which I personally believe is essential reading on the subject: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/ Ray On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 5:23:59 PM UTC-5 greenteadrinkers wrote: > Just came across this article in WashPo a few mins. ago, examines some of > the history of slavery in CA and what reparations might look like. > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/10/01/california-slavery-reparations/ > > Scott > > On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 5:51:59 PM UTC-4 Trenker wrote: > >> Wouldn't a white racist just pocket the money? >> > >> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 4:21:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >>> Towards Doug's very kind suggestion let me add this product that >>> Rivendell Bicycle Works now sells on rivbike.com: >>> >>> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/brp-contribution >>> >>> If you like the program, consider buying that product. If you don't, >>> then don't. Easy peasy. >>> >>> Bill Lindsay >>> El Cerrito, CA >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:09:55 PM UTC-7 dougP wrote: >>> One way to support this effort is to donate any unused Rivendollars to the program. Over the years, many of us have donated to RBW based on using these as store credits. I for one have still got some, and I know others who were willing to give theirs to someone else. Even though old Rivendollars don't help their cash flow, they could assist in "balancing the books" by being applied to this worthy effort. I've already told Grant to use mine as he wishes, and call on others to pass yours along too. Doug Peterson On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle > Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement > makes > me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9c204188-6fa1-42c7-ac3a-2ba0c98c2f7en%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
You are that you are. That you are is what and who you are. The undeniable and irrefutable fact Being . That you are. That ... this is.. and this glorious fact Being . ...against which no opposition exists or could seem to exist . for which no favor exists or could seem to exist. On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:03:45 PM UTC-4 brettjc...@gmail.com wrote: > Wholeheartedly agree, Bill. I don't need a company to be in lockstep > with me politically to support it, but it's refreshing to feel really, > really good about where I spend my discretionary dollars. I love that Riv > is doing this and hope other in the industry follow their lead. > > Cheers, Brett in PDX > > On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: > >> Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle >> Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes >> me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fba591b3-d9be-47ff-aeb1-12e078904c30n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Wholeheartedly agree, Bill. I don't need a company to be in lockstep with me politically to support it, but it's refreshing to feel really, really good about where I spend my discretionary dollars. I love that Riv is doing this and hope other in the industry follow their lead. Cheers, Brett in PDX On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: > Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle > Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes > me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2c57c858-dd52-4543-9707-03fe30dd013fn%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
While I don’t agree with this risky business decision, he can run it any way he wants. I just hope this will not put Rivendell out of business. On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 6:03:40 PM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote: > Definitely agree. > Bravo Riv > > > On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 11:59:05 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: > >> Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle >> Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes >> me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4698441d-9678-4a80-aea6-cebdb10051c0n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Definitely agree. Bravo Riv On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 11:59:05 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: > Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle > Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes > me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2f9d3640-9a42-47ae-8e5b-6d701fad05c0n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Just came across this article in WashPo a few mins. ago, examines some of the history of slavery in CA and what reparations might look like. https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/10/01/california-slavery-reparations/ Scott On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 5:51:59 PM UTC-4 Trenker wrote: > Wouldn't a white racist just pocket the money? > > On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 4:21:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: > >> Towards Doug's very kind suggestion let me add this product that >> Rivendell Bicycle Works now sells on rivbike.com: >> >> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/brp-contribution >> >> If you like the program, consider buying that product. If you don't, >> then don't. Easy peasy. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> >> >> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:09:55 PM UTC-7 dougP wrote: >> >>> One way to support this effort is to donate any unused Rivendollars to >>> the program. Over the years, many of us have donated to RBW based on using >>> these as store credits. I for one have still got some, and I know others >>> who were willing to give theirs to someone else. Even though old >>> Rivendollars don't help their cash flow, they could assist in "balancing >>> the books" by being applied to this worthy effort. >>> >>> I've already told Grant to use mine as he wishes, and call on others to >>> pass yours along too. >>> >>> Doug Peterson >>> >>> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/24fc823e-e2fd-4068-8a3a-ff60727f4807n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
I'm with Garth on this one..I have a perspective, too, which I'm not going to share here because this is a "Riv bikes and rides" site. The company can do other stuff and we can talk about it on their Instagram to our heart's content. On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 11:52:59 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote: > > As much as I'd like to offer my perspective on all this, this topic is way > beyond the stated bounds of the group. > > No, Jim cannot make exceptions as if he allows even one such discussion to > stand, inevitably the next one that comes up someone will cry foul ... "you > let such and such be discussed, why not this ?". > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ea8989e2-7cf2-48fa-8a9a-61073ca86417n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Wouldn't a white racist just pocket the money? On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 4:21:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: > Towards Doug's very kind suggestion let me add this product that Rivendell > Bicycle Works now sells on rivbike.com: > > https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/brp-contribution > > If you like the program, consider buying that product. If you don't, then > don't. Easy peasy. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > > On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:09:55 PM UTC-7 dougP wrote: > >> One way to support this effort is to donate any unused Rivendollars to >> the program. Over the years, many of us have donated to RBW based on using >> these as store credits. I for one have still got some, and I know others >> who were willing to give theirs to someone else. Even though old >> Rivendollars don't help their cash flow, they could assist in "balancing >> the books" by being applied to this worthy effort. >> >> I've already told Grant to use mine as he wishes, and call on others to >> pass yours along too. >> >> Doug Peterson >> >> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: >>> >>> Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle >>> Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes >>> me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. >>> >>> Bill Lindsay >>> El Cerrito, CA >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b26cb565-24e4-4a69-94cb-f02b9def5804n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Towards Doug's very kind suggestion let me add this product that Rivendell Bicycle Works now sells on rivbike.com: https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/brp-contribution If you like the program, consider buying that product. If you don't, then don't. Easy peasy. Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:09:55 PM UTC-7 dougP wrote: > One way to support this effort is to donate any unused Rivendollars to the > program. Over the years, many of us have donated to RBW based on using > these as store credits. I for one have still got some, and I know others > who were willing to give theirs to someone else. Even though old > Rivendollars don't help their cash flow, they could assist in "balancing > the books" by being applied to this worthy effort. > > I've already told Grant to use mine as he wishes, and call on others to > pass yours along too. > > Doug Peterson > > On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >> Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle >> Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes >> me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3b0e0f41-0cbd-4fb2-85a3-59232a88dbaen%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
Thanks for the reply, Nikko. Like I said I agree with the gesture but not sure about it's efficacy. I guess I hadn't considered that the goal is not just to get more Black people on bikes and pursuing it as a hobby/sport, but to get them into Riv-specific brand of riding which is certainly more niche than the sport in general, though both similarly homogeneous. I hope that it results in a positive change. Ray On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 3:09:55 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote: > One way to support this effort is to donate any unused Rivendollars to the > program. Over the years, many of us have donated to RBW based on using > these as store credits. I for one have still got some, and I know others > who were willing to give theirs to someone else. Even though old > Rivendollars don't help their cash flow, they could assist in "balancing > the books" by being applied to this worthy effort. > > I've already told Grant to use mine as he wishes, and call on others to > pass yours along too. > > Doug Peterson > > On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >> Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle >> Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes >> me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/758cf8f8-a8ff-4f7f-a54e-68f0a0130bacn%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
One way to support this effort is to donate any unused Rivendollars to the program. Over the years, many of us have donated to RBW based on using these as store credits. I for one have still got some, and I know others who were willing to give theirs to someone else. Even though old Rivendollars don't help their cash flow, they could assist in "balancing the books" by being applied to this worthy effort. I've already told Grant to use mine as he wishes, and call on others to pass yours along too. Doug Peterson On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle > Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes > me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/30f86c2f-da27-47cc-99d0-ebd987bda5fco%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
I agree with Bill in the increased likeliness now of me spending more money at RBW. David River Grove, IL On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:59:05 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle > Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes > me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6bc9ef94-d77e-4184-aabd-b1efd88749ffo%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
As much as I'd like to offer my perspective on all this, this topic is way beyond the stated bounds of the group. No, Jim cannot make exceptions as if he allows even one such discussion to stand, inevitably the next one that comes up someone will cry foul ... "you let such and such be discussed, why not this ?". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ec7a23c9-e3b2-4d1d-8c56-5db215b3d2fdo%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: BRP
I'm conflicted about this. Not because I don't agree with the values behind it or the intention. I align with Grant and co. in their sensibilities, and I love that they are prioritizing this over profits. But I guess I just don't see this as doing the good that Grant seems to think it will. I think donating a percentage of profits to Black organizations, perhaps especially those interested in getting more Black folks on bicycles if that's part of the plan, would be a better route. This all just seems too complicated with the weird way that they are going to have to verify race and the looming threat they could take it away at any moment with just the suspicion that they are being taken advantage of. Also, I sort of fundamentally disagree with their use of the term "reparations" to describe this program. I think reparations have to be more concretely tied to history, and I don't know that a discount on a Rivendell should qualify. Of course, I will continue to support Riv, and I am in no way offended by this program. I agree that if anything this deepens my appreciation for them as a company, and I hope I'm not seen as being a detractor for this post. Their hearts are absolutely in the right place, and I want this initiative to have more success than I'm giving it credit for. Ray On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:59:05 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote: > Instagram, the Blahg, and maybe an email update have Rivendell Bicycle > Works putting their money where their mouths are. Their announcement makes > me more likely to spend more of my money at Rivendell Bicycle Works. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0755f00b-845f-4a4a-a324-96bfed56c61cn%40googlegroups.com.
