Re: [RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

2020-10-31 Thread Jason Fuller 
The resources Jim has amassed are wonderful and impressive, but I'm 
surprised there isn't a more formalized timeline out there (great use of a 
long-scroll style infographic!) considering the amount of Riv catalog that 
is still generally lost to history otherwise!  For instance I was trying to 
find info on the previous Rosco's - good freaking luck! You'd think they 
never existed, save a couple dozen photos spread across the internet. 

An infographic that showed when each batch of each model was released would 
be too cool, IMO!  Maybe with its headbadge as the 'emblem' along it.  I 
might try to enlist my graphic designer partner in this... 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

2020-10-31 Thread Joel Stern 
Thanks Jim, this is perfect and a nice reading list to boot.

Joel

On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 1:24 PM Cyclofiend Jim  wrote:

> This has come up before, and those are interesting threads - so worth
> using the search feature for the group - one of the real assets of having
> this via the googling-groups...
>
> There was a spreadsheet posted here -
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JRuMAwuQ-Rc6bQXCBmfkmXA9jMMF5zBdBIyUOmkruYM/edit#gid=0
>
> There was a thread from back in 2013 - quoted  below:
>
> The _VERY_ rough page for "Generation 1" Rivendell frames is here:
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1/
>
> There are some Catalog scans (Catalog #5) of the Road Standard, Long Low
> and All Rounder
>
> The Long Low (and Road Standard) begat the Rambouillet
>
> The All Rounder begat the Atlantis
>
> As for the the specifics...  wow. That's probably a bit of an
> essay.
>
> My opinion is that most of the Rivendell models have been tweaks and
> evolutions.  One of the driving factors was actually the availability of
> certain parts - specifically "real world" reach brakes and large volume,
> round profile tires.  When the Long Low was around, most of the road tires
> were 19, 21 and 23 cm, while the brake reach was extremely limited.  So,
> there's that.
>
> The other thing is that I think Grant hones in on what makes each bike
> different and then intensifies the ideas - the essence of each design, if
> you will.  For example, the Rambouillet sits between the Hilsen and the
> Roadeo, but probably each is influenced by it.  When the Rambouillet came
> out, it wasn't common to ramble singletrack and mountain trails on a "road"
> bike, but with the increased clearances and larger volume tires, it was
> possible.  That design really was at the edge of what could be done with
> common brake components, and when the Silver dual pivots came out, that
> obstacle was removed. Big tires and ample clearance moved the design one
> way (Hilsen) and then the idea of running the comfy undercarriage (itself
> influenced by working with the 650B/584 tire size), but bringing back the
> light responsiveness of the Rambouillet into a more road focused design
> gave us the Roadeo.
>
> If you read back through the early Readers, Grant wrote a lot about this -
> trying to maximize his ideas against the realities of what was available.
> Sitting here in 2013, it's hard to believe that only 10 years ago it was
> about race-driven design.  That pretty much no one had heard of larger than
> 23 cm road tires, let alone 650B.  If you have the time, get the copies of
> the early Readers - it's well worth going through them.
>
> The 2009 Series - which gave rise to the Hillborne was really a refinement
> of the Atlantis made by someone other than Toyo.  Unfortunately economics
> of Japanese crafted frames has been a challenge.  I still want to expand
> some of the RBW history on the site - but have been pretty busy getting my
> VO work up and running for the past year or so.   Here are specific "early
> model" pages:
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis
> 
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot
> 
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bombadil
> 
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen
> 
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/quickbeam
> 
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet
> 
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus
> 
>
>
> It's also interesting to see how the idea of frames begin and where they
> end up.  The First Bombadil doesn't look at all like the final iteration,
> while the Hunqapillar morphed dramatically during conception.
>
> There's a lot of gaps in what I just wrote, of course.  The answer I
> always give is that when you are ready to get a bicycle that rides great
> everywhere, and can be adapted to your needs, it's time to check out
> Rivendell.
>
>
> On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>>
>> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA
>> made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for
>> the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made
>> in USA was the MIT Bleriot.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Joel
>>
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[RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

2020-10-31 Thread Cyclofiend Jim 
There is also a "pinned" post at the top of the group called "Rivendell 
Timeline" which is a good resource.

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>
> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA 
> made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for 
> the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made 
> in USA was the MIT Bleriot.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joel
>

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[RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

2020-10-31 Thread Cyclofiend Jim 


On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>
> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA 
> made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for 
> the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made 
> in USA was the MIT Bleriot.
>
>
Rambouillet was not made in the US, AFAIK. The first "named" production 
models - Atlantis and Rambouillet (as opposed to "Rivendells") were 
Japanese (Toyo) built. 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html

Bleriot was essentially a distribution deal through QBP which was a Maxway 
built (Taiwan) version of the Saluki
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr37_pg14.jpg


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[RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

2020-10-31 Thread Cyclofiend Jim 
This has come up before, and those are interesting threads - so worth using 
the search feature for the group - one of the real assets of having this 
via the googling-groups... 

There was a spreadsheet posted here - 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JRuMAwuQ-Rc6bQXCBmfkmXA9jMMF5zBdBIyUOmkruYM/edit#gid=0

There was a thread from back in 2013 - quoted  below:

The _VERY_ rough page for "Generation 1" Rivendell frames is here:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1/

There are some Catalog scans (Catalog #5) of the Road Standard, Long Low 
and All Rounder

The Long Low (and Road Standard) begat the Rambouillet

The All Rounder begat the Atlantis

As for the the specifics...  wow. That's probably a bit of an 
essay. 

My opinion is that most of the Rivendell models have been tweaks and 
evolutions.  One of the driving factors was actually the availability of 
certain parts - specifically "real world" reach brakes and large volume, 
round profile tires.  When the Long Low was around, most of the road tires 
were 19, 21 and 23 cm, while the brake reach was extremely limited.  So, 
there's that.

The other thing is that I think Grant hones in on what makes each bike 
different and then intensifies the ideas - the essence of each design, if 
you will.  For example, the Rambouillet sits between the Hilsen and the 
Roadeo, but probably each is influenced by it.  When the Rambouillet came 
out, it wasn't common to ramble singletrack and mountain trails on a "road" 
bike, but with the increased clearances and larger volume tires, it was 
possible.  That design really was at the edge of what could be done with 
common brake components, and when the Silver dual pivots came out, that 
obstacle was removed. Big tires and ample clearance moved the design one 
way (Hilsen) and then the idea of running the comfy undercarriage (itself 
influenced by working with the 650B/584 tire size), but bringing back the 
light responsiveness of the Rambouillet into a more road focused design 
gave us the Roadeo.

If you read back through the early Readers, Grant wrote a lot about this - 
trying to maximize his ideas against the realities of what was available.  
Sitting here in 2013, it's hard to believe that only 10 years ago it was 
about race-driven design.  That pretty much no one had heard of larger than 
23 cm road tires, let alone 650B.  If you have the time, get the copies of 
the early Readers - it's well worth going through them.

The 2009 Series - which gave rise to the Hillborne was really a refinement 
of the Atlantis made by someone other than Toyo.  Unfortunately economics 
of Japanese crafted frames has been a challenge.  I still want to expand 
some of the RBW history on the site - but have been pretty busy getting my 
VO work up and running for the past year or so.   Here are specific "early 
model" pages:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bombadil 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/quickbeam 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus 



It's also interesting to see how the idea of frames begin and where they 
end up.  The First Bombadil doesn't look at all like the final iteration, 
while the Hunqapillar morphed dramatically during conception.

There's a lot of gaps in what I just wrote, of course.  The answer I always 
give is that when you are ready to get a bicycle that rides great 
everywhere, and can be adapted to your needs, it's time to check out 
Rivendell.


On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>
> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA 
> made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for 
> the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made 
> in USA was the MIT Bleriot.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joel
>

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