[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Brady Smith]

I was sort of surprised upon buying my BMC monster cross that Mike Varley specs 
Tektro Oryxs, but honestly I’ve had good experiences with them. On my dad 
bike/commuter (a heavily customized Jamis Aurora), I have the Oryxs with Kool 
Stop dual compound pads and I’ve had no problem stopping down steep grades with 
40 pounds of stuff in the rain. I’ve since upgraded my Monster Cross to Dia 
Compe 980s (mostly aesthetic reasons), but for a bike that I ride hard year 
round regardless of weather, the Oryxs are a good value.

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Ash]

When I built my Appaloosa I went through a few cantis over 12-14 months 
before setting with v-brakes.  I have not tried CX 50/70, but VO Gran Cru 
and Avid Shorty Ultimate were very good.  I do remember that with Grand Cru 
I was able to remove front wheel without deflating (2" tires)

Of late I've been experimenting with using a modulator for the front 
v-brake. I'm liking what it does.  Will@Riv had suggested a good combo 
would be canti for the front and v-brake for the rear.  I might build the 
Susie that way.

On Thursday, 16 July 2020 at 07:57:01 UTC-7 Joel Stern wrote:

> I don’t think I need to go with V brakes (smack me if I am wrong), and I 
> an unwilling to buy Paul’s due to price.  I got a recommendation on Velo 
> orange grand cru at $145 a set.  
>
> Ant thoughts on what to use on an Appaloosa  or Atlantis? 
>
> If I use cantis I have a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, with V’s I start 
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks 
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Clayton Scott]

I really like the Campagnolo cantis from a few years ago (made by Tektro I 
believe). They are no longer made but come up occasionally. I have 2 pairs 
and got both for around $80 dollars a while back. Here is what they look 
like: https://www.evanscycles.com/campagnolo-cx-cantilever-brakes-EV153864

Besides them, most Shimano cantis I tried have been good.

If you believe that "harder is better" I recommend some Empella froglegs. 
They allow you to waste and exorbitant amount of time and still likely 
won't stop your bike. 

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA







On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:
>
> I don’t think I need to go with V brakes (smack me if I am wrong), and I 
> an unwilling to buy Paul’s due to price.  I got a recommendation on Velo 
> orange grand cru at $145 a set.  
>
> Ant thoughts on what to use on an Appaloosa  or Atlantis? 
>
> If I use cantis I have a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, with V’s I start 
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks 
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[exliontamer]

I've had the same Tektro 720s on my Atlantis for years. I use the super 
thin red Kool Stop pads. They've worked through everything and the thin 
pads allow you to clear big tires easily. They're relatively affordable and 
the silver looks classy on the Atlantis. 

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[ascpgh]

Scratch that eBay listing unless you're up for some hardware sourcing.

Complete is better (If you can tolerate shipping): 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suntour-XC-Pro-cantilever-brakes-NOS-New-Old-Stock-front-and-rear-set/254625088832?hash=item3b48d68540:g:xpUAAOSwW5Je5dPn

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 4:14:41 PM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> These: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254619161809
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 10:57:01 AM UTC-4 Joel Stern wrote:
>
>> I don’t think I need to go with V brakes (smack me if I am wrong), and I 
>> an unwilling to buy Paul’s due to price.  I got a recommendation on Velo 
>> orange grand cru at $145 a set.  
>>
>> Ant thoughts on what to use on an Appaloosa  or Atlantis? 
>>
>> If I use cantis I have a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, with V’s I start 
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[ascpgh]

These: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254619161809

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 10:57:01 AM UTC-4 Joel Stern wrote:

> I don’t think I need to go with V brakes (smack me if I am wrong), and I 
> an unwilling to buy Paul’s due to price.  I got a recommendation on Velo 
> orange grand cru at $145 a set.  
>
> Ant thoughts on what to use on an Appaloosa  or Atlantis? 
>
> If I use cantis I have a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, with V’s I start 
> from scratch.
>
> Thanks 
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:35:41 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, if you can some XC Pro cantilevers by all means do. They open ALL 
> the way, as in past the frame. If a Kool-Stop pad gets in the way of the 
> front, chop off the rear @ the rear notch. You'll know how far you can go 
> as there is an internal metal frame in the pad. File it off smooth.  I love 
> smooth post cantis because they are so adjustable.  I do love any canti 
> that places the pad in *front* of the arm, not behind as many models of 
> lat seem to do, except the Shimano Alivio CT-91 and Dia Compe 988. Tektro's 
> 710/720 look great until you install them and find where the pad holders 
> bolt is ends up hitting the frame, limiting the amount of space you have to 
> remove the tire. Really stupid beyond words. I ended up using other brakes. 
> I even prefer regular road size pads, not those elongated things, and ones 
> that are centered over the post, like the Sun Tour canti's came with and 
> Dia Compe uses on the 988 canti, which is remarkably similar to the XC Pro 
> and it's currently made. The silver and black version use their Salmon 
> colored OPC12 pad, it's regular road sized and centered.
>

Garth, design is all about compromises. The brakes that place the pad arms 
"behind" the brake arm will be stiffer overall, since the contact points 
between pad and rim are closer to the base of the brake studs, so there's 
less bending moment around the brake studs. Depending on your particular 
application, this may or may not be moot. As for the clearance issue, one 
can use Koolstop's "Thinline" pads to minimize the space taken up by the 
pads, to facilitate wheel removal. Or if one does not insist on using pad 
holders with refillable pads (that are directional), one can simply flip 
the pad 180° around, so the "rear" points forward. Yes, it'll look a bit 
weird, but it works and you only have to do it for the front. 
Alternatively, one can also use so-called "Cross" pads, which are 
essentially road-size pads, attached to V-brake type threaded posts.

Finally, a lot of brakes that use smooth post brake pads tend to utilize 
semi-conical washers for adjustment*. Those tend to deform and take a set, 
making subsequent adjustment difficult. And the act of balancing at least 3 
degrees of freedom while tightening a 10mm nut is a job best left for the 
experienced mechanic (at least if you want to do it in a timely manner). 
With brakes that use V-brake type threaded posts, adjustment is as simple 
as actuated the brake lever to secure the pads onto the rim, shimming the 
leading pad edge with a penny (for toe), and tightening the 5mm hexnut.

** Exceptions include Avid's Tri-Align, and the Onza HO.*

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Joel Stern]

Thanks

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 12:42:43 PM UTC-4 S wrote:

> +1 on Shimano CX-50. No complaints. That said, I prefer V-brakes. More 
> powerful and easier to set up. Some people complain about a lack of 
> modulation with V-brakes, but I think there is enough once you get used to 
> them -- just requires a lighter touch. 
>
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:14:06 AM UTC-7 Ginz wrote:
>
>> Shimano cx-50. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Joel Stern]

Ginz, I did not watch auto correct.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:14 PM Ginz  wrote:

> Shimano cx-50.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Joel Stern]

Thanks a John.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:39 PM John Bokman  wrote:

> Shimano CX-70 (no longer in production) are the best I've used for
> stopping power, modulation, and feel. I believe the CX-50 is the same
> functional brake, and is a bargain, in my estimation. If you want to spend
> even less, I would go with the Tektro CR 710.
>
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:14:06 AM UTC-7, Ginz wrote:
>>
>> Shimano cx-50.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Joel Stern]

Garth, thanks for so much good info

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:35 PM Garth  wrote:

>
>
> Yeah, if you can some XC Pro cantilevers by all means do. They open ALL
> the way, as in past the frame. If a Kool-Stop pad gets in the way of the
> front, chop off the rear @ the rear notch. You'll know how far you can go
> as there is an internal metal frame in the pad. File it off smooth.  I love
> smooth post cantis because they are so adjustable.  I do love any canti
> that places the pad in *front* of the arm, not behind as many models of
> lat seem to do, except the Shimano Alivio CT-91 and Dia Compe 988. Tektro's
> 710/720 look great until you install them and find where the pad holders
> bolt is ends up hitting the frame, limiting the amount of space you have to
> remove the tire. Really stupid beyond words. I ended up using other brakes.
> I even prefer regular road size pads, not those elongated things, and ones
> that are centered over the post, like the Sun Tour canti's came with and
> Dia Compe uses on the 988 canti, which is remarkably similar to the XC Pro
> and it's currently made. The silver and black version use their Salmon
> colored OPC12 pad, it's regular road sized and centered.
>
> For the front with my XC Pro's I use a fork mounted Origin8 brake cable
> hanger so you can run a cable directly to it. Those two in combo is superb,
> truly superb... it just couldn't be any better !
>
> I also only use a regular free floating cable hanger guide. I abhor the
> fixing the cable as Tektro and Shimano "suggest". I see their intention,
> but again, it's utterly dumb in the real world where having the straddle
> cable run free allows for instant centering of the brake at any time with
> the slightest of touch.
>
> That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it !  Hah !
>
> -Garth !
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Gonzalez

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:14 PM Ginz  wrote:

> Shimano cx-50.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Benz, good info.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:46 AM Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
benzouy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:
>>
>> I don’t think I need to go with V brakes (smack me if I am wrong), and I
>> an unwilling to buy Paul’s due to price.  I got a recommendation on Velo
>> orange grand cru at $145 a set.
>>
>> Ant thoughts on what to use on an Appaloosa or Atlantis?
>>
>> If I use cantis I have a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, with V’s I start
>> from scratch.
>>
>
> If you're using a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, my bag-matching instinct
> would be to suggest a set of Suntour cantilevers, like maybe a set of XC
> Pro. If you're not in a hurry, you can probably get a nice set for <$100 on
> eBay.
>
> However, practically speaking, with the biggest crux about cantilever
> brakes being proper adjustment, older cantilever brakes often use the smooth
> post brake pads  that
> are inconvenient to adjust properly. The newer cantilever brakes that use 
> V-brake
> style threaded post brake pads 
> are much easier to adjust for toe and position. In addition, I'll also look
> for low-profile brake arms, as the wider profile ones can interfere with
> panniers and other things. The VO Gran Cru will fit these requirements, but
> if you desire something more budget-friendly, Tektro's CR710 is about 1/3
> the price of the VO (which themselves are almost half that of Paul brakes).
>
> Finally, if you're not going to use fenders, and are ambivalent about
> putting those Suntour levers into service, V-brakes are probably the
> easiest to set up and use. Especially on the front, saving that headset
> brake hanger for that cleaner look, and entirely mitigating brake judder
> are worthwhile advantages.
>
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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[S]

+1 on Shimano CX-50. No complaints. That said, I prefer V-brakes. More 
powerful and easier to set up. Some people complain about a lack of 
modulation with V-brakes, but I think there is enough once you get used to 
them -- just requires a lighter touch. 

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:14:06 AM UTC-7 Ginz wrote:

> Shimano cx-50. 

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[John Bokman]

Shimano CX-70 (no longer in production) are the best I've used for stopping 
power, modulation, and feel. I believe the CX-50 is the same functional 
brake, and is a bargain, in my estimation. If you want to spend even less, 
I would go with the Tektro CR 710.

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:14:06 AM UTC-7, Ginz wrote:
>
> Shimano cx-50. 

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Garth]

Yeah, if you can some XC Pro cantilevers by all means do. They open ALL the 
way, as in past the frame. If a Kool-Stop pad gets in the way of the front, 
chop off the rear @ the rear notch. You'll know how far you can go as there 
is an internal metal frame in the pad. File it off smooth.  I love smooth 
post cantis because they are so adjustable.  I do love any canti that 
places the pad in *front* of the arm, not behind as many models of lat seem 
to do, except the Shimano Alivio CT-91 and Dia Compe 988. Tektro's 710/720 
look great until you install them and find where the pad holders bolt is 
ends up hitting the frame, limiting the amount of space you have to remove 
the tire. Really stupid beyond words. I ended up using other brakes. I even 
prefer regular road size pads, not those elongated things, and ones that 
are centered over the post, like the Sun Tour canti's came with and Dia 
Compe uses on the 988 canti, which is remarkably similar to the XC Pro and 
it's currently made. The silver and black version use their Salmon colored 
OPC12 pad, it's regular road sized and centered.

For the front with my XC Pro's I use a fork mounted Origin8 brake cable 
hanger so you can run a cable directly to it. Those two in combo is superb, 
truly superb... it just couldn't be any better ! 

I also only use a regular free floating cable hanger guide. I abhor the 
fixing the cable as Tektro and Shimano "suggest". I see their intention, 
but again, it's utterly dumb in the real world where having the straddle 
cable run free allows for instant centering of the brake at any time with 
the slightest of touch. 

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it !  Hah !  

-Garth ! 





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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Ginz]

Shimano cx-50. 

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake recommendations

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:
>
> I don’t think I need to go with V brakes (smack me if I am wrong), and I 
> an unwilling to buy Paul’s due to price.  I got a recommendation on Velo 
> orange grand cru at $145 a set.  
>
> Ant thoughts on what to use on an Appaloosa or Atlantis? 
>
> If I use cantis I have a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, with V’s I start 
> from scratch.
>

If you're using a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, my bag-matching instinct 
would be to suggest a set of Suntour cantilevers, like maybe a set of XC 
Pro. If you're not in a hurry, you can probably get a nice set for <$100 on 
eBay.

However, practically speaking, with the biggest crux about cantilever 
brakes being proper adjustment, older cantilever brakes often use the smooth 
post brake pads  that are 
inconvenient to adjust properly. The newer cantilever brakes that use V-brake 
style threaded post brake pads  
are much easier to adjust for toe and position. In addition, I'll also look 
for low-profile brake arms, as the wider profile ones can interfere with 
panniers and other things. The VO Gran Cru will fit these requirements, but 
if you desire something more budget-friendly, Tektro's CR710 is about 1/3 
the price of the VO (which themselves are almost half that of Paul brakes).

Finally, if you're not going to use fenders, and are ambivalent about 
putting those Suntour levers into service, V-brakes are probably the 
easiest to set up and use. Especially on the front, saving that headset 
brake hanger for that cleaner look, and entirely mitigating brake judder 
are worthwhile advantages.

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