[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Garth]

At the very least Mathew the appropriate size allen wrenches to loosen the 
FD cable and raise FD itself so you can see if the chain will come loose on 
it's own or requires a little tugging. If it requires more force, seeing 
that the RD is stretched out to the max you should release the chains quick 
link, if you can, but hold on tight to prevent a rebound effect and slowly 
let it return to shape. If it's all too tight, you may need to remove the 
RD to relieve the stress. Then, try working the jam with a little rocking 
motion if really stuck, avoid making it worse with more force. Of course I 
wasn't there so I can't for certain how I'd get it free exactly, but this 
is at least how I'd approach it. It helps to carry some nitrile disposable 
gloves too, 5 mil of okay but 6 or 7 is even better. I also carry a singly 
wrapped hand wipe.All the greasy gloves and wipe can be placed in one glove 
turned inside out, greasy side in !

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 4:49:58 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams wrote:

> Thanks for your help, everyone. I very much appreciate it. Earlier this 
> morning, I took my bike to the shop; here’s what we found and fixed:
>
> 1: The chain was stretched and kinked. 
>
> 2: The front derailleur was loose and out of alignment.
>
> 3: The front rings and rear cassette were all in good shape.
>
> The chain was the original when the bike rolled off the Rivendell 
> floor, so it’s over six years old and has at least 500 miles on it. I was a 
> little surprised at the short lifespan of the chain, but I’m assuming 
> that’s normal. We installed a new chain, and realigned, adjusted, and 
> tightened the front derailleur.
>
> For the past year, I’ve been hearing a “crack,” when I’m pedaling under 
> power, but I haven’t been able to correlate the sound with a specific 
> ring or shifting position. I was worried the sound was a broken tooth on 
> the rear cassette, but the mechanic believes the sound has been the chain 
> skipping or misaligning on the rear cassette.
>
> If I was out on a long ride and this happens again, how would I fix the 
> issue, and what tools would I need?
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Joe Bernard]

I don't see anything about "up", he said - sorry for speaking for you 
Matthew - it was loose on the seattube and out of alignment with the rings. 
I'm not entirely convinced this made the problem worse btw, the chain was 
going to suck back up the rear of the chainring and run into a properly 
aligned fd, too. A chain doubled up in that cage was going to stop 
regardless. 

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 2:00:31 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I don't get it. How could an FD slip "up" the frame? Usually it slips 
> down, no?
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 1:58 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Hey Piaw, joke's on me. Matthew says the chain was stretched AND the 
>> derailleur was in a bad position! 藍
>>
>> Joe "hey, don't ask me" Bernard 
>>
>> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:51:25 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Chains falling of a chainring is OK. You just stop and put it back on. 
>>> I've done that many times and it's no big deal. I wouldn't even bother 
>>> talking about it. A chain getting jammed inside the FD? That is occasion 
>>> for much cursing.  A chain getting caught in the FD and then jamming in 
>>> between the chainstay and the wheel or crank? That could be a bike ending 
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 I shall have a cow over the relevancy of the derailleur, it did not 
 cause the problem, it was the place where the problem ended. The implement 
 does not exist on my Riv, hence the chain suck would have ended at the 
 chain eventually dropping out of the suck or - worst case - falling off my 
 single chainring. Short of saying Matthew shouldn't have triple rings and 
 a 
 front derailleur - which would be insane, I'm not saying that - I can't 
 see 
 how the fd was a problem. The chain, it sucked. 

 On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> It appears the whole thing was just a "perfect storm" of stuff hitting 
> the fan. The chain appears to be wedged in between the FD and the ring, 
> so 
> yes. it is surely relevant beyond existing on the frame. The saddle, 
> that's merely existing on the frame and having no part in this. 
>
> My best guess is as good/worthless as any other guess ! I've had some 
> weird chain stuff happen on my Bombadil also, but never jammed up against 
> the FD like that (9-speed cassette and chain w/7-8 speed crank). They 
> don't 
> always get along. My chains are all clean and in perfect working order, 
> adjusted perfectly, yet still "every once in a while" in shifting 
>  
> W T F  just happened ?   
>
> I do agree though with the gap of the FD being too high, at least in 
> this particular case. Having a full FD cage "may" have prevented it from 
> getting wedged in like it did or to that extent. I said "may", so don't 
> anyone have a cow. .  .  .   moo . ;-) 
>
> We're all just trying to help a guy out of a "jam'. 
>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[藍俊彪]

I don't get it. How could an FD slip "up" the frame? Usually it slips down,
no?

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 1:58 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Hey Piaw, joke's on me. Matthew says the chain was stretched AND the
> derailleur was in a bad position! 藍
>
> Joe "hey, don't ask me" Bernard
>
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:51:25 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Chains falling of a chainring is OK. You just stop and put it back on.
>> I've done that many times and it's no big deal. I wouldn't even bother
>> talking about it. A chain getting jammed inside the FD? That is occasion
>> for much cursing.  A chain getting caught in the FD and then jamming in
>> between the chainstay and the wheel or crank? That could be a bike ending
>> problem.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> I shall have a cow over the relevancy of the derailleur, it did not
>>> cause the problem, it was the place where the problem ended. The implement
>>> does not exist on my Riv, hence the chain suck would have ended at the
>>> chain eventually dropping out of the suck or - worst case - falling off my
>>> single chainring. Short of saying Matthew shouldn't have triple rings and a
>>> front derailleur - which would be insane, I'm not saying that - I can't see
>>> how the fd was a problem. The chain, it sucked.
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>>
 It appears the whole thing was just a "perfect storm" of stuff hitting
 the fan. The chain appears to be wedged in between the FD and the ring, so
 yes. it is surely relevant beyond existing on the frame. The saddle,
 that's merely existing on the frame and having no part in this.

 My best guess is as good/worthless as any other guess ! I've had some
 weird chain stuff happen on my Bombadil also, but never jammed up against
 the FD like that (9-speed cassette and chain w/7-8 speed crank). They don't
 always get along. My chains are all clean and in perfect working order,
 adjusted perfectly, yet still "every once in a while" in shifting 
 W T F  just happened ?

 I do agree though with the gap of the FD being too high, at least in
 this particular case. Having a full FD cage "may" have prevented it from
 getting wedged in like it did or to that extent. I said "may", so don't
 anyone have a cow. .  .  .   moo . ;-)

 We're all just trying to help a guy out of a "jam'.

>
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>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Joe Bernard]

Hey Piaw, joke's on me. Matthew says the chain was stretched AND the 
derailleur was in a bad position! 藍

Joe "hey, don't ask me" Bernard 

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:51:25 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Chains falling of a chainring is OK. You just stop and put it back on. 
> I've done that many times and it's no big deal. I wouldn't even bother 
> talking about it. A chain getting jammed inside the FD? That is occasion 
> for much cursing.  A chain getting caught in the FD and then jamming in 
> between the chainstay and the wheel or crank? That could be a bike ending 
> problem.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> I shall have a cow over the relevancy of the derailleur, it did not cause 
>> the problem, it was the place where the problem ended. The implement does 
>> not exist on my Riv, hence the chain suck would have ended at the chain 
>> eventually dropping out of the suck or - worst case - falling off my single 
>> chainring. Short of saying Matthew shouldn't have triple rings and a front 
>> derailleur - which would be insane, I'm not saying that - I can't see how 
>> the fd was a problem. The chain, it sucked. 
>>
>> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> It appears the whole thing was just a "perfect storm" of stuff hitting 
>>> the fan. The chain appears to be wedged in between the FD and the ring, so 
>>> yes. it is surely relevant beyond existing on the frame. The saddle, 
>>> that's merely existing on the frame and having no part in this. 
>>>
>>> My best guess is as good/worthless as any other guess ! I've had some 
>>> weird chain stuff happen on my Bombadil also, but never jammed up against 
>>> the FD like that (9-speed cassette and chain w/7-8 speed crank). They don't 
>>> always get along. My chains are all clean and in perfect working order, 
>>> adjusted perfectly, yet still "every once in a while" in shifting  
>>> W T F  just happened ?   
>>>
>>> I do agree though with the gap of the FD being too high, at least in 
>>> this particular case. Having a full FD cage "may" have prevented it from 
>>> getting wedged in like it did or to that extent. I said "may", so don't 
>>> anyone have a cow. .  .  .   moo . ;-) 
>>>
>>> We're all just trying to help a guy out of a "jam'. 
>>>

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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[藍俊彪]

Even on a mountain bike 500 miles would be a short lifespan for a chain.
Last time I heard a "crack" on my  bike it was because my frame cracked.
Since you use quick links, the appropriate tool to carry is granite talon
tyre lever chain pliers: https://amzn.to/3xuE7j2. I'd also carry the a set
of allen wrenches to remove the FD. (You may also need a screw driver to
remove the FD cage so you can use the chain pliers).

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 1:49 PM Matthew Williams <
matthewwilliamsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your help, everyone. I very much appreciate it. Earlier this
> morning, I took my bike to the shop; here’s what we found and fixed:
>
> 1: The chain was stretched and kinked.
>
> 2: The front derailleur was loose and out of alignment.
>
> 3: The front rings and rear cassette were all in good shape.
>
> The chain was the original when the bike rolled off the Rivendell
> floor, so it’s over six years old and has at least 500 miles on it. I was a
> little surprised at the short lifespan of the chain, but I’m assuming
> that’s normal. We installed a new chain, and realigned, adjusted, and
> tightened the front derailleur.
>
> For the past year, I’ve been hearing a “crack,” when I’m pedaling under
> power, but I haven’t been able to correlate the sound with a specific
> ring or shifting position. I was worried the sound was a broken tooth on
> the rear cassette, but the mechanic believes the sound has been the chain
> skipping or misaligning on the rear cassette.
>
> If I was out on a long ride and this happens again, how would I fix the
> issue, and what tools would I need?
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[藍俊彪]

Chains falling of a chainring is OK. You just stop and put it back on. I've
done that many times and it's no big deal. I wouldn't even bother talking
about it. A chain getting jammed inside the FD? That is occasion for much
cursing.  A chain getting caught in the FD and then jamming in between the
chainstay and the wheel or crank? That could be a bike ending problem.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I shall have a cow over the relevancy of the derailleur, it did not cause
> the problem, it was the place where the problem ended. The implement does
> not exist on my Riv, hence the chain suck would have ended at the chain
> eventually dropping out of the suck or - worst case - falling off my single
> chainring. Short of saying Matthew shouldn't have triple rings and a front
> derailleur - which would be insane, I'm not saying that - I can't see how
> the fd was a problem. The chain, it sucked.
>
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>
>> It appears the whole thing was just a "perfect storm" of stuff hitting
>> the fan. The chain appears to be wedged in between the FD and the ring, so
>> yes. it is surely relevant beyond existing on the frame. The saddle,
>> that's merely existing on the frame and having no part in this.
>>
>> My best guess is as good/worthless as any other guess ! I've had some
>> weird chain stuff happen on my Bombadil also, but never jammed up against
>> the FD like that (9-speed cassette and chain w/7-8 speed crank). They don't
>> always get along. My chains are all clean and in perfect working order,
>> adjusted perfectly, yet still "every once in a while" in shifting 
>> W T F  just happened ?
>>
>> I do agree though with the gap of the FD being too high, at least in this
>> particular case. Having a full FD cage "may" have prevented it from getting
>> wedged in like it did or to that extent. I said "may", so don't anyone have
>> a cow. .  .  .   moo . ;-)
>>
>> We're all just trying to help a guy out of a "jam'.
>>
>>>
 --
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Matthew Williams]

Thanks for your help, everyone. I very much appreciate it. Earlier this 
morning, I took my bike to the shop; here’s what we found and fixed:

1: The chain was stretched and kinked. 

2: The front derailleur was loose and out of alignment.

3: The front rings and rear cassette were all in good shape.

The chain was the original when the bike rolled off the Rivendell floor, so 
it’s over six years old and has at least 500 miles on it. I was a little 
surprised at the short lifespan of the chain, but I’m assuming that’s normal. 
We installed a new chain, and realigned, adjusted, and tightened the front 
derailleur.

For the past year, I’ve been hearing a “crack,” when I’m pedaling under power, 
but I haven’t been able to correlate the sound with a specific ring or shifting 
position. I was worried the sound was a broken tooth on the rear cassette, but 
the mechanic believes the sound has been the chain skipping or misaligning on 
the rear cassette.

If I was out on a long ride and this happens again, how would I fix the issue, 
and what tools would I need?


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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Joe Bernard]

I shall have a cow over the relevancy of the derailleur, it did not cause 
the problem, it was the place where the problem ended. The implement does 
not exist on my Riv, hence the chain suck would have ended at the chain 
eventually dropping out of the suck or - worst case - falling off my single 
chainring. Short of saying Matthew shouldn't have triple rings and a front 
derailleur - which would be insane, I'm not saying that - I can't see how 
the fd was a problem. The chain, it sucked. 

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> It appears the whole thing was just a "perfect storm" of stuff hitting the 
> fan. The chain appears to be wedged in between the FD and the ring, so 
> yes. it is surely relevant beyond existing on the frame. The saddle, 
> that's merely existing on the frame and having no part in this. 
>
> My best guess is as good/worthless as any other guess ! I've had some 
> weird chain stuff happen on my Bombadil also, but never jammed up against 
> the FD like that (9-speed cassette and chain w/7-8 speed crank). They don't 
> always get along. My chains are all clean and in perfect working order, 
> adjusted perfectly, yet still "every once in a while" in shifting  
> W T F  just happened ?   
>
> I do agree though with the gap of the FD being too high, at least in this 
> particular case. Having a full FD cage "may" have prevented it from getting 
> wedged in like it did or to that extent. I said "may", so don't anyone have 
> a cow. .  .  .   moo . ;-) 
>
> We're all just trying to help a guy out of a "jam'. 
>
>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Garth]

It appears the whole thing was just a "perfect storm" of stuff hitting the 
fan. The chain appears to be wedged in between the FD and the ring, so 
yes. it is surely relevant beyond existing on the frame. The saddle, 
that's merely existing on the frame and having no part in this. 

My best guess is as good/worthless as any other guess ! I've had some weird 
chain stuff happen on my Bombadil also, but never jammed up against the FD 
like that (9-speed cassette and chain w/7-8 speed crank). They don't always 
get along. My chains are all clean and in perfect working order, adjusted 
perfectly, yet still "every once in a while" in shifting  W T F  
just happened ?   

I do agree though with the gap of the FD being too high, at least in this 
particular case. Having a full FD cage "may" have prevented it from getting 
wedged in like it did or to that extent. I said "may", so don't anyone have 
a cow. .  .  .   moo . ;-) 

We're all just trying to help a guy out of a "jam'. 

>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Joe Bernard]

Agreed, it's not a front derailleur problem beyond the fact that it exists 
and is on the frame. 

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 12:19:48 PM UTC-7 Wesley wrote:

> I'm confused by folks who are saying the front derailer caused this. The 
> chain that jammed was pulled up from the bottom of the chainring before it 
> jammed in the derailer. The root problem is why did the chain stick to the 
> chainring (defying gravity and the pull of the rear derailer) rather than 
> releasing from the chainring? I don't know the answer - stiff chain links, 
> bent chain, too narrow chain/too wide chainrings, sticky chain all seem 
> plausible.
> -Wes
>
> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 7:43:43 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:
>
>> My chain jammed in my front derailleur. What happened?
>>
>> I wasn’t going fast or slow, I hadn’t shifted gears, and I wasn’t putting 
>> any unusual stress or power on the drivetrain. I was just cruising along a 
>> flat street, gently pedaling, when suddenly my cranks locked and I couldn’t 
>> pedal forward or backward. 
>>
>> I coasted to a stop and looked down. The chain was fouled and jammed in 
>> the front derailleur, and the rear derailleur was parallel with 
>> the chainstays. I walked my bike home and took photos of the damage. I have 
>> many questions for you experts:
>>
>> 1: What caused this? How and why did my chain get jammed in the front 
>> derailleur? 
>>
>> 2: Does this breakdown have a name?
>>
>> 3: Is this something I did or failed to do e.g. bad shifting, lack of 
>> maintenance, is something bent or misaligned, or is it just the inevitable 
>> entropy from mileage and time?
>>
>> 4: How do I prevent this from happening?
>>
>> 5: How do I fix it and what tools will I need if I’m out on a long ride?
>>
>> Photos below.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Wesley]

I'm confused by folks who are saying the front derailer caused this. The 
chain that jammed was pulled up from the bottom of the chainring before it 
jammed in the derailer. The root problem is why did the chain stick to the 
chainring (defying gravity and the pull of the rear derailer) rather than 
releasing from the chainring? I don't know the answer - stiff chain links, 
bent chain, too narrow chain/too wide chainrings, sticky chain all seem 
plausible.
-Wes

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 7:43:43 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> My chain jammed in my front derailleur. What happened?
>
> I wasn’t going fast or slow, I hadn’t shifted gears, and I wasn’t putting 
> any unusual stress or power on the drivetrain. I was just cruising along a 
> flat street, gently pedaling, when suddenly my cranks locked and I couldn’t 
> pedal forward or backward. 
>
> I coasted to a stop and looked down. The chain was fouled and jammed in 
> the front derailleur, and the rear derailleur was parallel with 
> the chainstays. I walked my bike home and took photos of the damage. I have 
> many questions for you experts:
>
> 1: What caused this? How and why did my chain get jammed in the front 
> derailleur? 
>
> 2: Does this breakdown have a name?
>
> 3: Is this something I did or failed to do e.g. bad shifting, lack of 
> maintenance, is something bent or misaligned, or is it just the inevitable 
> entropy from mileage and time?
>
> 4: How do I prevent this from happening?
>
> 5: How do I fix it and what tools will I need if I’m out on a long ride?
>
> Photos below.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[lconley]

Lack of maintenance would be a prime factor in my mind. Keeping the 
drivetrain and the rim braking surface clean will prevent problems and 
extend the life of components.

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 10:43:43 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams wrote:

> My chain jammed in my front derailleur. What happened?
>
> I wasn’t going fast or slow, I hadn’t shifted gears, and I wasn’t putting 
> any unusual stress or power on the drivetrain. I was just cruising along a 
> flat street, gently pedaling, when suddenly my cranks locked and I couldn’t 
> pedal forward or backward. 
>
> I coasted to a stop and looked down. The chain was fouled and jammed in 
> the front derailleur, and the rear derailleur was parallel with 
> the chainstays. I walked my bike home and took photos of the damage. I have 
> many questions for you experts:
>
> 1: What caused this? How and why did my chain get jammed in the front 
> derailleur? 
>
> 2: Does this breakdown have a name?
>
> 3: Is this something I did or failed to do e.g. bad shifting, lack of 
> maintenance, is something bent or misaligned, or is it just the inevitable 
> entropy from mileage and time?
>
> 4: How do I prevent this from happening?
>
> 5: How do I fix it and what tools will I need if I’m out on a long ride?
>
> Photos below.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Garth]

Regardless if the chain width is a contributing factor or not(It's the FD 
that is the crux of the issue), 5-8 speed chains are not the same inner 
width as 9-speed and above. 

Would I use an 11-speed chain on a 7-8 speed cassette/FW ?  Absolutely not. 
I've used a 9 to try and it worked okay, but have gone back to 8's as I 
prefer SRAM 8xx series chains to any KMC of the same speed. 


Chain width inner standards, from here : 

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3555/bicycle-drive-chain-dimension-standards/#2*For
 
inner chain width there are the following standard dimensions:*

   - *Single speed chains have inner width of 1/8″ (3.175 mm).*
   - *Multi speed chains, from 5 to 8 have inner width of 3/32″ (2.38 mm).*
   - *Multi speed chains from 9 to 12 speeds have inner width of 11/128″ 
   (2.18 mm)*





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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Joe Bernard]

With the disclaimer that I highly doubt chain width is the OP's problem - 
it was just one of the possibilities I introduced, I think old goopy lube 
and/or a worn drivetrain are most likely - I do not agree with Mr. Zinn. My 
Wipperman 8-speed chain does indeed have a slightly wider inner width than 
my 11-speed from the same company. Is it enough to to change the 3/32 
designation? Doubtful. Is it enough to mess up running my 11-speed chain on 
a 1x chainring labeled 9/10 speed? No. But there's a difference there, 
which is why I brought it up while I was throwing darts at the board to see 
how many possibilities there was for Matthew's problem. 

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 12:16:13 AM UTC-7 Nick Payne wrote:

> I'd say that your middle chainring is probably quite worn, to the point 
> where the teeth refused to let go of the bottom run of the chain and 
> carried it up and around until it jammed under the derailleur and top run 
> of chain. As to how to avoid it, replace chainrings before they get to that 
> point of wear. I can't see that using an 11-speed chain on older chainrings 
> can cause a problem, as the width of the rollers has not changed as the 
> number of speeds has increased (at least up to 11-speed). Leonard Zinn 
> explains it here: 
> https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-faq-chain-width-explained-compatibility-queries-answered/
> .
>
> I have unused chainrings dating all the way back to 6- and 7-speed days, 
> the width of the teeth on them is no different to that on modern 
> chainrings, and I've run 11-speed chains on the older rings without any 
> problem. 13-speed Campagnolo Ekar is the only groupset I have where the 
> internal chain width and chainring tooth width have both been decreased 
> from the widths of fewer speed setups.
>
> Nick
>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Garth]

That FD .

If I only know classic looking FD's with their nice long cages, I'd say 
that particular FD looks like it's been chopped off. Of course that not 
literal, but functionally it has been. I can totaly see how such a cage 
could jam as seen in the photo. I can't see exactly how many teeth on the 
big ring but by what I can count it's more than 42 teeth, and those FD's 
supposedly are for a 42t ring max. I can't that in itself means anything, 
all that matters is the chain appears to have jammed where on a full cage 
FD it would not. 

You know, there are better ways to accomodate smaller rings that still use 
a traditional looking/functioning cage. Just scale it down, but just 
chopping it off in the front not lonly looks awful it looks like it 
actually was chopped off by someone in their garage. Spare me the "to each 
is own" nonsense, it looks awful. A big fancy coporate name doesn't make 
those behind the mask infallible to wonkiness. 

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Nick Payne]

I'd say that your middle chainring is probably quite worn, to the point 
where the teeth refused to let go of the bottom run of the chain and 
carried it up and around until it jammed under the derailleur and top run 
of chain. As to how to avoid it, replace chainrings before they get to that 
point of wear. I can't see that using an 11-speed chain on older chainrings 
can cause a problem, as the width of the rollers has not changed as the 
number of speeds has increased (at least up to 11-speed). Leonard Zinn 
explains it here: 
https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-faq-chain-width-explained-compatibility-queries-answered/
.

I have unused chainrings dating all the way back to 6- and 7-speed days, 
the width of the teeth on them is no different to that on modern 
chainrings, and I've run 11-speed chains on the older rings without any 
problem. 13-speed Campagnolo Ekar is the only groupset I have where the 
internal chain width and chainring tooth width have both been decreased 
from the widths of fewer speed setups.

Nick

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Joe Bernard]

Clarifying: I don't actually know what chain you're using, I'm just 
wondering if you have a 10- or 11-speed chain on those 7/8/9-ish rings. A 
10 should work but you could get unlucky, an 11 probably won't. 

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 9:01:56 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I shall speculate: 
> I see a chain on the middle ring that stayed stuck to the teeth at the 
> bottom and came back up the backside until it jammed in the derailleur. 
>
> Causes:
> 1. Old gloopy lube could stick to the chainring teeth. 
> 2. A worn tooth might snag the chain (I'm less convinced of this one). 
> 3. I see chain pickup pins on your rings which tells me you may also have 
> crooked teeth (can't see them) on the middle ring to aid shifting..one of 
> those may have caught the chain. 
> 4. It's a 10- or 11-speed chain and a smidge narrow for those rings. Riv 
> claims they're good up to 10 but those Silver cranks were introduced when 
> all Rivs used 8 or 9, they usually work with 10 (not 11) anyway but you may 
> have gotten unlucky today. 
>
> Solutions: 
> Clean goop off, check for wear, on your next ride check to see if your 
> chain is trying to catch on the bottom run as it passes the ring back to 
> the rear derailleur. 
>
> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 7:43:43 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:
>
>> My chain jammed in my front derailleur. What happened?
>>
>> I wasn’t going fast or slow, I hadn’t shifted gears, and I wasn’t putting 
>> any unusual stress or power on the drivetrain. I was just cruising along a 
>> flat street, gently pedaling, when suddenly my cranks locked and I couldn’t 
>> pedal forward or backward. 
>>
>> I coasted to a stop and looked down. The chain was fouled and jammed in 
>> the front derailleur, and the rear derailleur was parallel with 
>> the chainstays. I walked my bike home and took photos of the damage. I have 
>> many questions for you experts:
>>
>> 1: What caused this? How and why did my chain get jammed in the front 
>> derailleur? 
>>
>> 2: Does this breakdown have a name?
>>
>> 3: Is this something I did or failed to do e.g. bad shifting, lack of 
>> maintenance, is something bent or misaligned, or is it just the inevitable 
>> entropy from mileage and time?
>>
>> 4: How do I prevent this from happening?
>>
>> 5: How do I fix it and what tools will I need if I’m out on a long ride?
>>
>> Photos below.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Joe Bernard]

I shall speculate: 
I see a chain on the middle ring that stayed stuck to the teeth at the 
bottom and came back up the backside until it jammed in the derailleur. 

Causes:
1. Old gloopy lube could stick to the chainring teeth. 
2. A worn tooth might snag the chain (I'm less convinced of this one). 
3. I see chain pickup pins on your rings which tells me you may also have 
crooked teeth (can't see them) on the middle ring to aid shifting..one of 
those may have caught the chain. 
4. It's a 10- or 11-speed chain and a smidge narrow for those rings. Riv 
claims they're good up to 10 but those Silver cranks were introduced when 
all Rivs used 8 or 9, they usually work with 10 (not 11) anyway but you may 
have gotten unlucky today. 

Solutions: 
Clean goop off, check for wear, on your next ride check to see if your 
chain is trying to catch on the bottom run as it passes the ring back to 
the rear derailleur. 

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 7:43:43 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> My chain jammed in my front derailleur. What happened?
>
> I wasn’t going fast or slow, I hadn’t shifted gears, and I wasn’t putting 
> any unusual stress or power on the drivetrain. I was just cruising along a 
> flat street, gently pedaling, when suddenly my cranks locked and I couldn’t 
> pedal forward or backward. 
>
> I coasted to a stop and looked down. The chain was fouled and jammed in 
> the front derailleur, and the rear derailleur was parallel with 
> the chainstays. I walked my bike home and took photos of the damage. I have 
> many questions for you experts:
>
> 1: What caused this? How and why did my chain get jammed in the front 
> derailleur? 
>
> 2: Does this breakdown have a name?
>
> 3: Is this something I did or failed to do e.g. bad shifting, lack of 
> maintenance, is something bent or misaligned, or is it just the inevitable 
> entropy from mileage and time?
>
> 4: How do I prevent this from happening?
>
> 5: How do I fix it and what tools will I need if I’m out on a long ride?
>
> Photos below.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Chain Jam

[Piaw Na]

It's possible that your chain is too long and all that happened was that 
the chain bounced and got caught up. Usually something like this is called 
"chain suck." I've had a chain wrap itself around the rear derailleur and 
ripped the entire derailleur hanger off (that ended the ride!), and I've 
had the front derailleur ripped off in similar fashion (ripping off the 
front derailleur does not end the ride). This in particular tends to happen 
to bicycles with triple chainrings, as all my bikes had. It's one of the 
reasons I've switched to 1x --- with a narrow-wide chainring, no FD, and a 
clutch derailleur these don't tend to happen.

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 7:43:43 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> My chain jammed in my front derailleur. What happened?
>
> I wasn’t going fast or slow, I hadn’t shifted gears, and I wasn’t putting 
> any unusual stress or power on the drivetrain. I was just cruising along a 
> flat street, gently pedaling, when suddenly my cranks locked and I couldn’t 
> pedal forward or backward. 
>
> I coasted to a stop and looked down. The chain was fouled and jammed in 
> the front derailleur, and the rear derailleur was parallel with 
> the chainstays. I walked my bike home and took photos of the damage. I have 
> many questions for you experts:
>
> 1: What caused this? How and why did my chain get jammed in the front 
> derailleur? 
>
> 2: Does this breakdown have a name?
>
> 3: Is this something I did or failed to do e.g. bad shifting, lack of 
> maintenance, is something bent or misaligned, or is it just the inevitable 
> entropy from mileage and time?
>
> 4: How do I prevent this from happening?
>
> 5: How do I fix it and what tools will I need if I’m out on a long ride?
>
> Photos below.
>
>

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