Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks again, Mike.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Michael / SF 
wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Responded to your i-bob thread but reposting here for posterity: I just
> tried this out with a new wheelset. The Shimano plug fit on the SON rather
> nicely, but no luck actually powering the lights. Bummer, that would have
> been surprisingly cool!
>
> Michael
> SF / CA
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:40:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I'd test this myself except that if I have a spare Shimano plug, I don't
>> know where it is. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who can try
>> this.
>>
>> Michael, thanks for bringing this to the list.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 6:23 PM Michael / SF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On the subject of comparing SON and Shimano/SP connectors, does anybody
>>> have personal experience with this:
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/c9mbgn/hint_for_son_dynamo_owners_shimano_plug_fits_well/
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Michael
>>> SF / CA
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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> .
>


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Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Michael / SF]

Hi Patrick,

Responded to your i-bob thread but reposting here for posterity: I just 
tried this out with a new wheelset. The Shimano plug fit on the SON rather 
nicely, but no luck actually powering the lights. Bummer, that would have 
been surprisingly cool!

Michael
SF / CA

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:40:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I'd test this myself except that if I have a spare Shimano plug, I don't 
> know where it is. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who can try 
> this.
>
> Michael, thanks for bringing this to the list.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 6:23 PM Michael / SF  > wrote:
>
>> On the subject of comparing SON and Shimano/SP connectors, does anybody 
>> have personal experience with this: 
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/c9mbgn/hint_for_son_dynamo_owners_shimano_plug_fits_well/
>>  
>> ?
>>
>> Michael
>> SF / CA
>>
>> -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/04d60f47-2406-4cd7-839c-c9dc395e4279o%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

I'd test this myself except that if I have a spare Shimano plug, I don't
know where it is. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who can try
this.

Michael, thanks for bringing this to the list.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 6:23 PM Michael / SF 
wrote:

> On the subject of comparing SON and Shimano/SP connectors, does anybody
> have personal experience with this:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/c9mbgn/hint_for_son_dynamo_owners_shimano_plug_fits_well/
> ?
>
> Michael
> SF / CA
>
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> 
> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Michael / SF]

On the subject of comparing SON and Shimano/SP connectors, does anybody 
have personal experience with this: 
https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/c9mbgn/hint_for_son_dynamo_owners_shimano_plug_fits_well/
 
?

Michael
SF / CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Teague Scott]

Wow, didn't know those existed! I just ordered a Kasai non-Field 
Serviceable yesterday from SomaFab Shop - didn't even see those FS 
Dynacoils!

Just checked up on them and it looks like they don't have a silver 32h 
rim-brake FS in stock. Now I'm wondering whether it's worth it to forgo the 
memorial day 10% off sale and wait for a FS to show up with the specs I'm 
after. Hmmm...

- Teague in Boise

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Brendan Willard in SF]

I'll be interested to hear the feedback on Kasai Field Serviceable Dynamo 
Hubs 

On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 9:32:56 AM UTC-7, Bones wrote:
>
> Yes I used the specs for the PV-8, I had previously read somewhere that 
> they were the same. And yes those specs look correct. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Bones]

Yes I used the specs for the PV-8, I had previously read somewhere that they 
were the same. And yes those specs look correct. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Teague Scott]

I'll let Bones clarify, but I'm assuming yes, identical measurements. The 
only spoke calculator I could find with a plug and play SV-8 option is Edd.

https://leonard.io/edd/

Here's what the Edd spoke calculator has to say for the PV-8:
52 mm flange diam.
26.5 mm c-l & c-r
2.7 mm spoke hole diam.

- Teague in Boise

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[esoterica etc]

Bones,

I just want to clarify what you said— did you use the specs of the PV-8 from 
the spoke calculator to build up your Kaisei? Meaning, the PV-8 and the Kaisei 
have identical measurements? Thanks,

~Mark 
Raleigh, NC


> On May 21, 2020, at 18:20, Bones  wrote:
> 
> I’ve built two sets of wheels with those Kasai hubs recently. So far I am 
> impressed. I used the PV-8 in a spoke calculator and it worked out just fine.
> 
> Bones
> 
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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Bones]

I’ve built two sets of wheels with those Kasai hubs recently. So far I am 
impressed. I used the PV-8 in a spoke calculator and it worked out just fine.

Bones

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Teague Scott]

Good stuff in here, thanks all. I think I'll pass on the SP and go for one 
of those Kasai hubs.

Anyone have specs for the Kasai (rim brake obviously...)? Flange diameter, 
center to left/right, spoke hole diameter? Same as the SP PV-8?

I'll end up ordering from Riv, so they can just pass the info along when 
the time comes if no one here has the answer. Thought I'd try get a head 
start on ordering spokes.

- Teague in Boise

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[BSWP]

I would want the widest hub possible, for the most robust wheel overall. 
That is, spoke flanges on the hub as far apart as possible. I've noticed 
some hubs are narrower than others, and worry that the wheels won't hold up 
to side loads and bumps as well as those built on wider hubs.

- Andrew, Berkeley

On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 9:06:29 PM UTC-7, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Jonathan D.]

Thank you everyone for your advice and the recent information about SP hubs. 

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[ascpgh]

I've been conditioned by previous experience to do things right, once. 
Sometimes it's because I built something using less than the best materials 
because I didn't know about better choices or because it seemed like 
appropriate cost containment. The work and waste to undo something down to 
the point of a failure, necessity of replacement and a temporary 
substitute. This has applied in carpentry (pick each piece of lumber 
yourself), cabinet building (use the best fasteners and hardware), tiling 
(Ditra uncoupling mat), hardwood floors (have your own milled), old British 
(replace any Lucas part with others), Italian cars (Bayless Racing's timing 
belts), and bicycles- the source of so many trials and errors chronicled by 
these threads. 

My first SON was for my commuter to which I am less committed than the hub. 
It is ridden in whatever comes and spends its time at home indoors so the 
proprietary atmospheric compensation to prevent moisture being sucked into 
the hub is key, I think. It has performed flawlessly with virtually no 
attention or care from me other than wiping it occasionally. I believe this 
environmental change of indoor storage and year-round use is what killed 
the previous Phil Wood BB in a significantly shorter time and mileage than 
should be expected. 

When picking parts for my new bike I had no hesitation about repeating the 
choice of the SON (with the SL feature since the frame and fork were 
custom). 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 12:06:29 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Peter White]

Several years ago, SP hubs were made by a company named KT. I don't know
when that business relationship ended but since it ended, SP hubs have been
made elsewhere. As far as I know, there is no SP factory as such. They are
all being made under contract with some hub manufacturer.

Since SP's relationship with KT ended, word is the quality has gone
downhill. One distributor I've gotten to know over the years has stopped
importing SP and only imports hubs manufactured by KT. The reason is the
extremely high return rate he was seeing for SP hubs due to various defects.

The Kasai hubs from Soma are KT hubs.

PJW

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 3:50 PM Tom Horton  wrote:

> re shutter precision vs kasai dynamo hubs, from what I can glean they are
> the same, or made in the same factory. I bought one from riv a year or so
> back and it has been fine. SON is a very pretty hub though and I've got a
> few.
>
> On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 12:06:29 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>>
>> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub
>> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a
>> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the
>> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned
>> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>>
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> 
> .
>


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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Rich Lesnik]

Check out the Kasai dynamo. They're available from Riv or Merry Sales. Lots 
of them on Riv bikes, and no complaints so far.

Rich


On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 5:20:03 PM UTC-7, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Jonathon,
> Unless you live somewhere hot and submerge your hubs on mtb rides or 
> something similar in terms of temperature differential the gas exchange 
> mechanism is a non-issue.
>
> I've owned both. I've worn out both an SV8 (ended up getting new bearings, 
> now being used by a friend in town) and a SON 28 (which took a spa trip to 
> Germany after its first winter (2000) and now lives in Vermont with my 
> brother). There is no significant difference in basic reliability in my 
> experience. I have over 100,000 miles on various SON hubs and somewhat 
> fewer on the SP; I have used hub dynamos since 1999. I would suggest making 
> your decision based not on the reliability (both excellent) but on other 
> factors. 
>
> For example, do you want/need both a wide flange spacing and very low 
> drag? Do you want/need the wiring fully integrated into the bike? If either 
> or both of the latter obtain, then the SON has options that the SP does 
> not. 
>
> If not, then the SP connectors (identical to the Shimano) are a better 
> design in my opinion. On the other hand, the SON is more nicely finished. 
> Taiwan or Germany? Both make great stuff. You pays your money and makes 
> your choice.
>
> If you can live with a narrow-ish flange spacing, or you don't plan to 
> build a one-off fork with special connectors, then either will work fine, 
> and both Anton Tutter(SP in North America) Peter White (SON in North 
> America) and Jan Heine (SON in North America, I think) will be happy to 
> help you. PJW will also work with your local bike shop through their 
> commercial account.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
> On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 10:06:29 PM UTC-6, Jonathan D. wrote:
>>
>> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
>> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
>> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
>> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
>> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[William deRosset]

Dear Jonathon,
Unless you live somewhere hot and submerge your hubs on mtb rides or 
something similar in terms of temperature differential the gas exchange 
mechanism is a non-issue.

I've owned both. I've worn out both an SV8 (ended up getting new bearings, 
now being used by a friend in town) and a SON 28 (which took a spa trip to 
Germany after its first winter (2000) and now lives in Vermont with my 
brother). There is no significant difference in basic reliability in my 
experience. I have over 100,000 miles on various SON hubs and somewhat 
fewer on the SP; I have used hub dynamos since 1999. I would suggest making 
your decision based not on the reliability (both excellent) but on other 
factors. 

For example, do you want/need both a wide flange spacing and very low drag? 
Do you want/need the wiring fully integrated into the bike? If either or 
both of the latter obtain, then the SON has options that the SP does not. 

If not, then the SP connectors (identical to the Shimano) are a better 
design in my opinion. On the other hand, the SON is more nicely finished. 
Taiwan or Germany? Both make great stuff. You pays your money and makes 
your choice.

If you can live with a narrow-ish flange spacing, or you don't plan to 
build a one-off fork with special connectors, then either will work fine, 
and both Anton Tutter(SP in North America) Peter White (SON in North 
America) and Jan Heine (SON in North America, I think) will be happy to 
help you. PJW will also work with your local bike shop through their 
commercial account.

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 10:06:29 PM UTC-6, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Tom Horton]

re shutter precision vs kasai dynamo hubs, from what I can glean they are 
the same, or made in the same factory. I bought one from riv a year or so 
back and it has been fine. SON is a very pretty hub though and I've got a 
few.

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 12:06:29 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Zed Martinez]

I've only just used the Shimano 3N72, and only for a couple weeks now, but 
I went for it after a few people here expressed good experiences with them, 
and then finding this comparison online that showed the Shimanos were much 
much closer to the SONs than not these 
days: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?message_id=143635

This one shows a bigger difference between the newer Shimano 3Nxx series 
and the SONs, but it was also just a lab test with the wheel and not 
measured on an actual bike on rollers like the other, so, I consider it 
more of a theoretical measurement 
set: https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-drag-lab-testing/

For the price difference, I still thought the performance trade-off between 
the SON and Shimano was one of diminishing returns and stopped putting off 
getting dynamo lighting until I could afford the SON wheel, myself. I don't 
really notice any difference with the lights off, and with them on I'd say 
I noticed half (maaaybe a third) as much drag as my roadster with a fairly 
well respected Nordlicht bottle dynamo gets. I don't know how that measures 
against the SON IRL, but it's fine enough for my needs. But, I'm somewhat 
famous for running my Clem like a hoss on fairly hefty tires, so, if you 
like to run lighter maybe the drag would be more obvious than it is for me?

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 12:06:29 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>

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